SpringMyTrap
SpringMyTrap
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@kit_mason said:
Threads like this are always a waste of time. The majority of the playerbase hasn't ever had any skill correctly identifying Singularity's issues. They didn't pre-buff, so there's no way in hell the buff taught them anything.
He needs changes that specifically and surgically cut him out of being central to the uninteractive strats the game has. 3 genning and slugging especially - he's such a major piece in both of those strats - he's so incredible at 3 genning that the Kick Limit, which was largely successful, doesn't stop him.
Unfortuantely, most people I've seen discuss it want his chase gutting, which would force him into the uninteractive stuff. It's a sorry state for my main to be in, really. He's doomed to never again see how close he was to perfectly balanced pre-buff.
I dont think I trust BHVR to fix singularity's core issues without murdering him and his unique multitasking management playstyle. If they try addressing his macro management, they'll easily end up actually dumbing him down into the pure chase killer some people make him out to be and it would be over for him. We could argue if they could or should do something, but IMO it's better if Singularity's problematic playstyles receive indirect nerfs in form of blanket systems and so on.
you're absolutely right though that most people have no idea how this killer even works let alone what to suggest to make him better.
all they know is that there is a killer they sometimes face and lose to and that's absolutely because the killer is "ridiculously over-tuned" and not because they like have no idea how to counter the killer let alone outplay the killer who most definitely is more than aware of how the character functions.
all you need to understand about these people competence on the matter is that they genuinely thought singularity was a bad worthless killer before the update and developers trivializing initial camera aiming and putting the addon everyone used into basekit made him OP even though nothing effectively changed, if anything, he got more counterplay because of them making overclock timings consistent and fair to survivor.
these people genuinely thought all the skill to singularity is aiming cameras and keeping track of people because your pov changed position rapidly.
they unironically claim EMPs were made useless because you cant just forget about printing and have to do something, you were already meant to do vs any singularity - go to the crates and finish the printing to ramp up EMP usage rate. for the reference - the only big nerfs to EMPs were in first 2 weeks of Singularity release and they mainly addressed the amount of EMPs (from 7 crates 80 second printing to 5 crates 90 second and eventually 4 crates 100 seconds) and the activation (longer delay - 2.5 seconds instead of 1.5 seconds and 10% slowdown so that you cant just pop the popsicle midchase in killer's face cuz it was way too easy).
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why cant you treat people youre playing with respect and play out the match even if its already lost? you already signed up for the match.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954728#Comment_3954728
Because I was answering to you……
Gamma setting is not made to change the mood of the game. It is as stupid as telling someone who wants to change the mood of their film to turn off the lights and turn it into a horror movie.im sure putting brightness filter on a horror movie meant to be dark isnt going to make it less scary, riiiiight?
dbd has all the aesthetics needed if you are not scared to turn down the brightness.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953852#Comment_3953852
You can't just call everything in the game unreactable
I have literally dodged so many axes since Springtrap was released lolyou factually did not dodge a single axe he has thrown unless he tossed it at max-long range at which point he is not going to throw it unless he feels bored or you lock yourself in animation.
what you are doing is reacting to the animation of the wind up and then guessing when he chooses to commit to a throw while you frantically run back and forth in circles trying to make HIM miss the attack until you get predictable or he cancels the attack.
so yeah, zoning is boring and lame which gets progressively worse with the ability getting bigger range and they need to get rid of it and buff the killer elsewhere.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954610#Comment_3954610
Gamma settings is not made to create an horror game. It is made to help you having the same brightness as everyone to avoid balance problem due to vision…
Months ago, when Dracula came out, there was a Lights Out modifier. No tracking, no scratch marks, no HUD, just you and a horrific game ambiance. I loved it.
I wish they would bring it back.
why do you care about balance when youre asking to bring the game back into horror direction rather than just being themed around it which is not really going to work out for a game played competitively?
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954623#Comment_3954623
If i recall is it not the goal for survivors to do gen and escape, but also their emblem and grades rely on also healing and unhooking and playing around that too.
Them to just focus on balancing game around wincon would just eventually lead to rebellion on forums again eventually once they figure out whats the next "meta", it would remove a lot of chaos sure but not the entire root of the problem.
With the ai in play the ai can nerf the meta builds as it pleases if it sees that players are gettings wins by not their actual skill rather by stacking perks that allow them to actually force the killers that are not top end tier players in chases that end up with gens rush.
Same goes for top end killers that win by running certain killers and perks that fit them to win by that and not actual skills that you learn by playing the game for some time.
Ai would simply put an end to the whole meta builds if it sees that these players been getting higher MMR by playing with that and winning with that instead of actually playing the game as intended.
The devs have confirmed they have access to more in depth information about stats and perk info and match history, they can feed it into the ai.
The AI would not be so aggressive to starting players unless they also start winning by running meta perk builds and certain killers and if it sees your friend group has been using it, it will obviously get a bit sus and nerf the starting players but only if they actually rely on their perks alone
I dont think using "ai for dynamic balancing" or whatever you are suggesting is a good idea.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954615#Comment_3954615
Exactly!
The game will never have peace and the players never satisfied with this approach of balancing.
We need something artificial monitoring players in real time applying nerfs but not the typical nerfs that would be noticable, it would be more in harmony.
I will try to give my best example how i visualize it would go if the top end killer ends up with casual pre made lobby of 4 stack.
Pre-lobby the ai will check for real time stats and match history and see that they reason why matched is because slower que times or region missmatch or simply that the friend squad stack is winning because of comms and actual skill and some perk stacking while the killer is top end player that mains certain killers that have both momentum and ability to cause havoc on those squads with certain perks in pair.
The killer will see eventually that his/her's perks are not working as intended or not as fast as they used to before but thats why soft tuning of ai exists to not be so aggressive its machine learning after all.
The survivor squad will also get a tiny debuff to their stacked perks but mostly neligible they would rather see that they cant just let 1 skilled player go juke the killer to do the gen rush like they used to in prior matches
or just make the game have a better wincon than escapes-kills and make more functional matchmaking based on that.
another issue is that this game keeps being built and balanced around teamwork too much. teamwork is too good and it's the only option survivors really have because the game is revolving too much around optimizing the time sink objectives and managing resources.
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this is what happens when you force killer to be casual and punish them for being competitive and force survivor to be competitive and punish them for being casual instead of letting both kinds of players play with each other rather than forcing them to coexist.
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you have a gamma setting.
you're free to tune it down below default for this exact vibe.
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they are still very much useful, you just cant crutch on a bug removing counterplay from them.
reminds me of blight players lamenting hug techs, they too claimed blight is dead now.
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@OmegaXII said:
Springtrap's hatchet has no cooldown? Are we playing different game somehow?
apparently missing CD 0.25 seconds longer than huntress basekit with an exception he cant throw another is "no cooldown" to some people.
if devs added trapper today they'd complain how being immobilized for long is unfair.
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rocking this while im still trying to make springtrap interesting
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I really wish they reworked Pig one day.
Her power is incredibly outdated and very uninteractive & one-dimensional and is basically a very fancy 5th slowdown perk for a killer with mid chase power & stealth.
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I think the best rework to invocations would be to tremendously nerf the effects and the penalties / price they require.
This game cannot function with high risk high reward perks, especially on the survivor side, because that always requires killer to go out of their way to deal with somehow which is simply miserable.
Invocations should apply minor penalties / temporary negative status effect, take about 15 seconds to do and the effects should either be temporary or not much more significant than the effects of similar perks.
I/E treacherous crows should only work for you and only in a limited range (like 32-40 meters). Weaving spiders would probably need brand new effect because generator progress perks are a whole other level of flawed.
If invocations would be global and impactful as they are, they cannot possibly have a strong or fair effect for the survivor because then it would mean the killers will have to play around invocations. Having the game revolve around constantly checking basement is the same kind of miserable gameplay as chasing boons when they were overpowered except it's even worse.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953488#Comment_3953488
You will never be able to make them more optimal than just using them normally. Just like how you will never be able to make orbitals on huntress more optimal than using them normally. Those things will always be a gimmick no matter what. Fun to go for and cool when you get them but nothing else. Like going for shots through holes with Deathslinger or Trickster. Is it cool that they can do that? Yes. Should that be what their entire powers are about? No that would be boring and untenable.
and zoning is a perfectly fine way to play the game. I don't get this trend of attaching the word "slop" to the end of anything you don't like as though it means anything.if seatbelts dont provide 100% safety in car crashes, we shouldn't even bother. that's the kind of reasoning you are using.
just because nerfing lazy and optimal strategy while buffing skillful and less optimal (due to high risk) strategy wouldnt make lazy strategy stop being optimal, doesnt mean it wouldnt make lazy strategy less viable and skillful strategy more viable, resulting into more reasons to use the latter.
zoning is not a perfectly fine way to play this game because it's miserably boring. there is nothing interesting about holding m1 with unreactable attack and just waiting till survivor gets predictable with their juking. I will keep attaching the word "slop" to it because that's what it is.
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@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953568#Comment_3953568
If the plan is to buff Ghoul even further, maybe we should also start prepping survivor bots for the main role… because soon nobody will be left to play it.
Ghoul shows up in 6 out of 10 of my matches right now, and unlike Nurse or Blight, he doesn’t require months of practice to be oppressive. You learn him, you loop once, you delete.
He's arguably faster than most top-tier killers, has almost no downside, and rewards aggressive play with little risk. That combo is already pushing people off the survivor role.
If that’s the intended future, then hey… maybe killer queue times will finally teach balance by themselves.Ghoul is pretty balanced as is.
The problem does not lie in his strength but rather in how easy it can be to apply compared to dealing with it (as just following survivor with power & tagging them is easier than pathing correctly and looping).
So a sensible conclusion of an unbiased person would be to look for ways to sidegrade the killer in such ways that playing him would be harder or dealing with him would be easier.
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Ghoul would need a bunch of buffs to make up for that, but I wouldnt mind seeing him balanced without the free tag.
Maybe instead of a free injury it's a less free but m2 hit nonetheless on injured people unless they have endurance.
But personally, I think they need to bugfix this mess of a killer first before doing major changes, we still have the hens kidnap tech working and Im starting to get worried it's actually an intended feature.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953554#Comment_3953554
If you can't see the difference between:
"This killer is completely overpowered, easy mode and needs nerfing into the ground" vs "Yeah, maybe a small tweak would be nice here." then you're either completely blinded by your own bias or you have no idea what a nuanced opinion is.
Okay so, by your own logic Singularity's best spots for bio-pods are generators and crates? Right. Now that is something I agree on and it's also why I think on the survivor side EMPs should be just a bit better at dealing with that. That's all. I don't see how that's some scathing hot take.
Also I never said using biopods "ONLY" in chase. I just said it's something he can do and changes to EMPs wouldn't affect that much. Sure maybe in your experience using biopods mid chase is "inefficient and weak" but I disagree, I think good singularities can make not being slipstreamed nearly impossible using this method.
"Borderline Useless" just strikes me as someone who tried it a few times and it didn't go well and wrote it off as bad. I respect your opinion tho.
Sorry but "Objective reality" in a game where people have very different experiences, skill levels, playstyles and so on is, in your words "laughable". You wanna talk """objective reality""", killrates are the highest they've ever been according to BHVR stats with SWFs only surviving slightly more often than non swfs
So does that mean SWF is okay and not busted?
So does that mean Killer deserves a nerf?
The answer is obvious.
>small tweak
>pods destroy the main fair play application of the power that enables this killer to be so good.
Im honestly sick of talking with you, such discussions always lead nowhere, especially when a person has no idea what he is talking about but has a confidence like he is the one who played this killer for 1500 games with 90% killrate and has 4ked top survivor teams in tourneys.
Previously, I'd waste hours trying to prove something to you, but I know it'd be a waste of time, you already have such a strong opinion, so let's just agree to disagree and not waste each other's (especially mine) energy and time.
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*Security Guards badge- 50 % is insane amount of stealth bonus (45s) for uncommon add on (Demogorgon has iri rarity and has by far no as long undetectable)
firstly why are we lying, the addon only gives 10 seconds because its 50% to base 20 seconds, secondly it's a problem of springtrap, but the demogorgon who is an incredibly outdated killer devs neglect to balance properly.
*Purple Guy Drawing- double aura reading for one add on is crazy (other killers have that minimum very rare and restricted to single aura reveal)
similar killers who have chase aura as addons: huntress has very rare (can hit people from insane range and immediately follow up with a second hatchet which is much easier with aura read); freddy has very rare (gets aura read for spamming an unavoidable easy to hit projectile with no reactable wind up that goes through walls every 6 or whatever seconds); plague has ultra rare (gets WH anytime survivor pukes, indefinitely); blight has rare (gets aura for bumping into walls so basically for free); trickster has very rare (gets aura for hitting second to last blade and has incredibly lethal follow up in form of the main event); artist has very rare (gets aura read for placing birds in loops); pinhead has very rare (gets aura for landing basically unavoidable chainshot); chucky has two rares (gets aura for scampering or just dashing so basically for free); vecna has an uncommon (gives aura when you miss skeletons). might've forgot someone, I was just getting these from the top of my head.
springtrap gets aura + im all ears as a rare addon for landing a skillshot that's harder than huntress and has to stay m1 killer for as long as he wishes to capitalize on it. I think if anything the addon needs to go down in rarity.
*Foxy's Hook- turns him into Clown for rare add on is pretty unfair (huntress has very rare of 4 % for 5s but needs to hit the target)
short duration, punishes for throwing axe in the direction of the survivor in loops because if you miss (which is pretty likely) you give them speed for free.
the only application is throwing it on your side of the loop to try to outmaneuver survivor with movement which is very unlikely to work out with how short duration is. Or to catch up after missing the axe assuming survivor doesnt get the buff which will happen if the axe goes in front of them.
very much fair addon. huntress doesnt benefit survivors and clown has a whole power built around utilizing the bottle effect.
*Bonnies Guitar String- probably most unfair add on towards other killers that all have similar add on of iridescent rarity, this one being rare makes no sense and the 50 % shorter undetectable makes no downside 1) you can bring add on that negates that, 2) you still have 15-20s of undetectable which is more than enough to sneak on someone
the only fair point in this post, this addon should become iridescent while fazcoin becomes very rare and some of the very rares (lootbag with no nerfs) go into rare tier.
*Loot bag- another add on that is absolutely busted, not only that it gives guaranteed hook at exit gate - because of grab, but it blocks it for any survivor for 12s (Freddy having iri add on that is even worse than this?)
some killers get it basekit. survivors can also bodyblock you for the other guy to pull it out in time or even pull it out themselves on some rare occasions.
*Iridescent remnant- not fan of this add on at all, giving him unlimited undestroyable blood favor every time he teleports is busted, you can just quick tap doors mid chase too (Xenomorph has iridescent add on that is activated only when he gets stunned = they lose healthstate, might be way more fair to give him that effect if he injures someone in 12s of exiting the door and might be still more than strong but not completely free when doors been moved on top of gens)
It adds a very telegraphed warning to the doors because the effect triggers the moment you ENTER the office instead of when you LEAVE the office. That means survivors near pallets will always be guaranteed a 3 second (4 second if we count exiting animation) warning to prerun and that warning is extremely reactable and telegraphed unlike the normal one.
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@DNet89 said:
Each match would just be of the best items and add-ons which could already be a thing if you just go from character to character.
it already is and maybe this would rise the pickrates enough for devs to acknowledge how stupidly broken some things are in current dbd.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953541#Comment_3953541
First of all, nowhere have I said that singularity is OP so its disingenous to say that's misinformation on my part. All I've said is 3 gen singularity is frustrating to go against and could do with some kind of tweak to make it less so.
Alright so breaking down your logic - you say if you don't play 3 gen you'll lose your power because of survivors going out of their way to remove biopods but that highly debateable. Most survivors aren't going to waste an EMP removing some biopod you set up in a tile unless you're chasing them/they're slipstreamed already.
What makes survivors have to use EMPs on biopods in the first place is to ensure they are actually safe to stay on the gen even if the Killer's on the other side of the map.
You also neglect to mention the fact that non generator oriented singularities are really good at using biopods in the middle of a chase to slipstream, something the biopod removal change wouldn't affect all that much in your average game. Then again, that's in my opinion, I could be wrong about that.
Say that Otz spreads misinfo all you like, the dude has his opinions the same as you I don't see why you gotta act like that about it. Nobody's opinion is objectively right or wrong.
nowhere have I said that singularity is OP so its disingenous to say that's misinformation on my part. All I've said is 3 gen singularity is frustrating to go against and could do with some kind of tweak to make it less so.
I dont see the difference because you're still calling out for unnecessary nerfs.
>Most survivors aren't going to waste an EMP removing some biopod you set up in a tile unless you're chasing them/they're slipstreamed already.
do you understand how singularity works / creates his map pressure or do I have to explain it from such basic level?
Singu's map pressure comes from having cameras on all / most points of interest which are generators and crates.
You dont put pods in random places, you put pods where people will be most of the time, constantly infect them and use that to make them waste more time.
Survivors can and will use EMPs to destroy pods the moment you infect the survivor, taking away about half of your pressure on average because you can make survivor leave generator about two times by threatening them with infection (and this threat, btw, doesnt work if you mindlessly tunnelling, theyll just ignore and commit to the gen).
>You also neglect to mention the fact that non generator oriented singularities are really good at using biopods in the middle of a chase to slipstream, something the biopod removal change wouldn't affect all that much in your average game. Then again, that's in my opinion, I could be wrong about that.
and you dont even neglect to mention, you simply dont seem to know that using biopods only in chase is highly inefficient and weak playstyle.
most efficient and skill expressive singularity performance is multitasking by simultaneously pressuring people on multiple generators and force rotations to win more time for chases and get EMPs out to get your power spike to happen.
putting pods primarily in chase is borderline useless and dismisses most of the character's power potential.
Say that Otz spreads misinfo all you like, the dude has his opinions the same as you I don't see why you gotta act like that about it. Nobody's opinion is objectively right or wrong.
and my opinion is this, if only there was a way to find out which opinion regarding objective reality is true or not by like discussing it instead of shoving your head into the sand and deflecting everything that contradicts it.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953515#Comment_3953515
I don't know if it's the best idea, but what also enables singularity to defend 3 gens really well is the free tracking you'll always have so long as you have pods around gens and survivors are forced to deal with them or else they get slipstreamed while trying to work on the gen
Also I don't see the logic you're putting forward, you're saying EMPs removing biopods will push singularity into playing 3 gen playstyles more because it "neuters" him but then you say it won't do anything. Please explain how it's a neutering.
Like I said, that's just one of multiple changes they could make to try and alleviate people's issues. My ultimate point isn't about making emps "spammable" or anything like that. I just think if there's gonna be this long period of time to get the EMP as well as the hindered penalty, they should be just a bit more worthwhile outside of slipstream removal.
Dont you think that seeing the pods go away gives him info survivors are back?
Again, youre essentially trying to cut off runner's arms to slow him down. Im sure that might make him a bit slower but it's rather inefficient especially when you want the runner to throw something instead of running.
>Also I don't see the logic you're putting forward, you're saying EMPs removing biopods will push singularity into playing 3 gen playstyles more because it "neuters" him but then you say it won't do anything. Please explain how it's a neutering.
Play 3 gen, barely feel nerf because you're always there to replace them.
Dont play 3 gen, lose power because if you dont play 3 gen, you spread pods across the map and you cant replace them in that case.
Very simple logic.
In any case I dont believe the nerf is warranted. People complain about singularity yet still make rookie mistakes like instantly spending EMPs to destroy camera before hux even remembers to use it or trying to pop EMPs midchase while Singularity just has teleported to them, while most singularities barely keep up in spite of that because there's a lot you need to do well with the killer. Singularity is a killer that wins when survivors dont know how he works while the person playing him knows how to play him at way higher level than any other killers. When survivors do know the counterplay, he struggles massively and loses if there is no big enough skill gap or survivors massively ######### up elsewhere.
If people struggle with singu's 3 gen, they need to engage with 8 kick system which is very much doable, especially when singularity is unable to guarantee the only few maps with borderline impossible 3 gens.
This disinformation spread by otz and gullible people that singu's QoLs and minor buffs suddenly made him OP is nothing but disinformation.
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Also even dredge is more capable of getting grabs on sheer basis of being able to randomly teleport to the locker survivor needs to lock and they lock lockers A LOT even though the reward for "locking lockers" is way lower than it is for going through doors because of how much momentum doors can preserve for survivors.
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@Brokenbones said:
I have a few pain points with Singularity as well despite him being a Killer I really like overall.
The main one for me though is: EMPs need to be more worth it for removing biopods - EMPs are really good for removing slipstream but you also have to use them to disable biopods that are protecting generators. There's also the fact that even if you disable one, singu can immediately just come back and replace it in no time at all.
Something that always bugs me is even though you've went out of your way to 'counter' Singularity's power, he still gets free info from the biopod you destroyed. Either make bashed biopods have no visual when you switch to them or make EMPs straight up remove them. It's not like they are hard to replace or anything like that.
I don't have any qualms about overclock mode. It's his chase power and he needs it.
i always find this suggestion laughable though it makes me sad it gets thrown around so much since singularity's release. eventually devs might get gaslit into thinking this is actually a good idea.
people dont seem to understand that this ingenious idea will not fix any of the grievances they have with singularity, in fact, this will make them worse because making EMPs remove pods will not do anything to stop singularity from defending 3 gens or instantly replacing the pods. It will just ensure this is the only thing he ever does because his power would get otherwise neutered so even good singularities that dont rely on his ultimate strategies will immediately proceed to playing for them and bad players will cry even harder that they dont even get a chance for a "not sweaty" game.
people also dont seem to understand they cant just mindlessly spam EMPs versus good singularity, they need to put some thought into it and at the very least avoid using EMPs when singularity is so close he can instantly nullify the value.
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OP doesnt understand why killers are as strong or weak as they are.
It's not a matter of balance, it's a matter of how conceptually strong they are for the desired gameplay loop.
If you want bad killers like pig become new blights you'll either have to tremendously rework them (and most definitely turn them into dash / teleport killers of some kind) or tremendously buff them and in case of the latter most definitely deal with the fact they would be broken because their kits dont have enough budget for this amount of strengths. Or you'll have take everything above down to their level which would make THESE killers feel like absolute #########.
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@Marzipan210 said:
I don't think he needs changes at all.
The problem with making comparisons to another killer about how a different killer should work is that the killers are meant to be unique. If you make Springtrap work more like Huntress you make Springtrap less Springtrap. Like should he also have 7 axes to throw and have a lullaby?
Like Huntress can afford to be slowed that much while readying the axe cause she has 6 more to throw and they are longer range. If anything I think she could use a few less hatchets but that's just me.
Yeah you shouldn't be going for orbitals all the time but tbh you aren't punished that much for missing so going for them occasionally is still fun even if it isn't optimal. I don't think orbitals need to be made core to his gameplay because then getting them becomes less special. They would go from being "this cool thing you can do if you are good at Springtrap" to "that thing Springtrap does."And this is meant to be somehow worse than zoneslop gameplay? Yes please, make orbitals less exciting and happen more often if that means this would be a more common thing you'd be encouraged to play for instead of boring m2 holding.
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they didnt remove it cuz its fun to use.
most killers dont care about movement speed difference as much especially when survivors need to have 2 people pressured at the price of one + dedicate their entire builds for that and you can just play around that + bloodlust.
and you were playing springtrap who has a range attack.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953380#Comment_3953380
Him having overlocked for each survivor slipstreamed was a stated bug. He now has stronger 1v1 than he used to because his based overlocked duration was buffed by almost 2s, while him having all 4 survivors being slipstreamed won't give him 4x base duration.
>stated bug
They literally mention it in the devblog as part of the design change.
His 1v1 also got less consistent so of course it got stronger.
Also, speaking of the things that were consistently part of his ability, but actually were bugs - camera tech. If you know, you know. This is something all skilled singu mains me included used to on regular occasion and that was one of the thing that was with old singularity till the end. One of many things that made old singu an insanely broken killer with nigh zero counterplay if used right. Something that is no longer an issue with new singularity who is all about you winning mindgames and applying counterplay.
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@XtremeDBD_YT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953345#Comment_3953345
He had his overclock reworked, he gets killer instinct when tagging someone for a small amount of info if they instantly clear slipstream, Reduced Biopod deactivation time, emp range reduction. The whole point of a buff is to make something easier. There were alot of QOL changes like the sfx when you can teleport, auto aim on pods, but these are buffs to his kit, not QOL's. He struggles alot against altruistic play, and thats why you always carry an emp and help someone out if you can.
reworked is a strong word, more like sidegraded.
it got way more consistent for both parties and the duration is just right for singularity to run out of overclock before hitting the survivor so they can stun him or vault and force another TP.
people think he got stronger because they read about haste buff but dont understand anything about singu's chase timings to realize the corresponding nerf gave them more counterplay than they had because singularity always plays with the minimal duration compared to previous iteration.
not even to mention that old singu was just playing with 5% haste addon 24/7, literally nobody used anything else, it was unironically basekit for him at that point and it was genuinely so much more oppressive with bigger haste and duration.
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>nerfed EMPs
>looks inside
>just makes you do what you would be doing vs good singularity anyway
someone just self reported.
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@cogsturning said:
I didn't know that and kinda prefer it. I feel like no one is interacting with the doors because they don't want to get grabbed. The whole point was that survivors can use them too, but most games no one touches them.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953263#Comment_3953263
Survivors should be able to temporarily lock them, much like Dredge's lockers. Then they'd interact. It would also, from what little I know about FNAF, make sense for the character.
The problem is that it would be a massive overkill without compensation buffs to Springtrap.
The mechanic is incredibly survivor sided as is, it is not utilized literally because there is no need to use it most of the time. Survivors get by without it just fine.
It's also incredibly situational because it's useable strategically and way less often than gameplay loop occurs.
Like, compare it to xenomorph's turrets or EMPs that survivors constantly need to use because the designs of both killers REQUIRE THEM to do so - without turrets xenomorph jumps out of tunnels completely unexpectedly and is extremely oppressive in chase while singularity without EMPs has unlimited map mobility. There is a very clear element of their power budgets having very otherwise oppressive and overtuned elements that are meant to be kept in check with these mechanics.
Meanwhile nothing Springtrap has genuinely warrants using cameras / doors. He cannot do anything to create situations where survivors need to constantly move across the map and his undetectable/door traversal has a decent amount of warnings that render cameras obsolete.
Sure, one could argue he takes like 3 seconds to travel through doors (though its actually 6 or 5.4) and that makes him really oppressive but that isnt really the case, that just makes him annoying. And neither cameras nor ability to teleport through doors really make up for that, they just exist in a different space.
Same goes for undetectable. Yeah, it's crazy how much it powercreeps poor outdated demogorgon but it's hardly crazy on its own, it's just good and is more a matter of demo being bad at what he does. And when you take into account how loud Springtrap is, it's not even that good. And, of course, neither cameras nor doors are needed to combat that.
These mechanics just exist to additionally buff survivors in certain situations without really creating unique gameplay/interaction between either sides. Or baiting survivors into throwing the game which is already barely happening.
If devs, unironically, removed survivor's ability to interact with the cameras and doors, nothing would've changed. I doubt Springtrap would even jump a tier in community's perception because just how little that would change things with how people just play out games with him while barely using any of that anyway. Can you imagine if they deleted counteritems for xeno, sadako, singularity or wesker/nemi? That'd be a disaster, but here, nothing.
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yeah, the whole system is really bad and just relies on people being dumb and springtrap being really campy near doors.
idk what their idea behind that was, but it doesnt seem to play out.
they need to somehow heavily encourage using the doors (for example springtrap ALSO cannot use the camera/door system if the battery is depleted or survivors can block the doors they travel through after the animation finishes) and make springtrap WAY MORE CAPABLE of punishing survivors sitting on cameras or travelling through the doors (he always sees the auras of the doors survivors interact with f/e).
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@Jspect said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953190#Comment_3953190
Yeah it shouldn't be like that. But this way of fixing that would hurt retrieving his axe outside of chase when you want to be 115% or something. I think reducing the cooldowns overall would be enough, the numbers I suggested in the post ideally
I mean, with my idea worst comes to worst you'll just play like you used to before, im just suggesting to give him an extra option.
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Sure, but survivors cant repair more than one generator at a time.
And the game does not reward nor punish for escapes. They're just something that exists.
Just put both sides on a timer they cant properly snowball with and change win condition to hooks.
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@Jspect said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953186#Comment_3953186
Yeah! I saw Scott Jund suggest this and I really liked it. The only reason I didn't include it was because it's more of a rework and they probably wouldn't do it.
true. if they dont want to do it, they could just buff the axe's cooldowns at least.
it's another thing i personally hate about springtrap's design. he PUNISHES you for landing a hit with the power because you basically lose it and are forced into being trapper for longer than if you MISSED it. And it's not like it's missed CD that is the problem, it's the outrageous 10 second CD for SUCCESSFUL hit.
In countless situations where other similar killers can get a hit and immediately go for the other, Springtrap just awkwardly waits the cooldown because survivor is safe enough to not get grabbed or even m1'ed and you cant really access the axe back.
they could make it so that you can always retrieve your axe back but it would induce a much more punishing slowdown if you do that before the cooldown runs out.
Like, if you retrieve the axe after cooldown, it just slows you down to 4.4 and thats it, but if you do it prematurely, its more like slinger's reload - animation is a bit longer and it significantly slows you down.
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I think one thing they need to do is make axe hitbox somehow bigger the longer it travels. They can visualize it with some kind of a shockwave or smth, idc
It's incredibly difficult to land to the point it's less about your precision / correct guess and more about survivor not dodging / running into it. Especially when it comes to orbital throws which are supposed to be a very big part of playing him because it's something you can actively utilize in chase.
I do agree the zoning is pretty free, it's incredibly boring to use or face.
Another thing I think they 100% need to address is the doors / cameras. They are dead on arrival. They are not worth playing around except a few limited scenarios in the match and when these scenarios happen, you cant do absolutely anything to counter them being used.
They need to be way more interactive and worth playing around.
It's incredibly boring how "the fnaf" killer has none of the "fnaf" stuff going on in the gameplay because the core design is broken.
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952170#Comment_3952170
Dredge's locker grabs are way better designed and far more likely to happen, too. Most survivors NEED locks to counter Dredge properly and spend a lot of time in a match touching lockers because of them, and a Dredge player can take advantage of that with aura reading perks or one specific blue add-on. But no survivor needs to touch Springtrap's security doors at all, not even for the cameras. If anything, trying to use door travel or cameras is a bad idea, because it puts you at risk AND wastes time that could be spent doing gens.
yup, there is ZERO reason to use cameras or doors apart from a few instances.
springtrap is not the killer that requires survivors to constantly rotate around the map.
dredge gets way more opportunities for grabs.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953149#Comment_3953149
No. i don’t immediately think that. Very telling you are accusing me of the exact thing you are doing. DBD has always been a for fun game. Remember when getting 0k had a message that demoralized killers so badly they had to change it? Because I do. There has never been a true competitive mode in the game because its unsustainable. You are acting like just because its PvP its competitive, Fall Guys is PVP yet thats a casual game, Among Us is PVP and thats also a casual game. You still never once explained what macro was, you just threw the term around randomly. Is macro sitting on your 3 gen because its an easier win? Is macro using your power to down someone? I’ve played league of legends for years and understand what macro actually is, and how it doesn’t just randomly apply to things just because you used the word.
I’m not even going to get started on how you blanketly state that those exact elements make the game fun, because fun is subjective. You have no idea what every single player finds fun.
i dont see the need to elaborate more especially to you when your entire attitude is labeling all kinds of strategic gameplay as "easy". I gave a bunch of examples but you choose to ignore them and Im not really obliged to defend myself against weird random accusations. That alone would validate them.
"acting like just because its PvP its competitive"
do you understand what competitive means or you just throw the word around like you accused me?
competitive game means a game where people test their skill against each other to see who is better.
funny you brought up Fall Guys or Among Us that are perfect examples of the games DbD desperately tries to be but doesnt understand why it works for them and doesnt for dbd. My wild guess would that neither of these games have an issue in determining a win condition nor do they have a problem with the design of the game letting people compete.
Among us, for example, is a social game about deduction to find out who is the killer / deceive others that you are not. The design of the game is assymetric (one is a killer others are not) but it lets people to compete fairly because, for example, developers dont say that "lying is unhealthy and we need to add anti lying system".
Fall guys is a gimmicky battle royale where you compete in a bunch of minigames for eliminations which is pretty self explanatory.
These games are vastly different and I think it's rather stupid to bring them up in the first place, but it's important to highlight the difference in mentality of the community and developers. People can both have fun AND compete because the competition is fair and fun. It doesnt matter if the game is assym or doesnt have direct competition.
DbD however has a massive problem with that. It cant make competition neither fair nor fun and in attempts to fix it goes for band aid solutions that only make the problems worse or change one problem for another.
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@EternalLord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953137#Comment_3953137
True that. Killers are losing more strategies but they don't compensate for their losses. Why can't they reward killers for hooking survivors when it's already risky enough nowadays with all the latest survivor perks, flashlights and crawling to or downed at upright pallets? I don't blame y'all if you slug us but even then you can't account for Unbreakable or Boon: Exponential.
It's extremely easy for us to win games as SWF and we have yet to lose our 466 winstreaks but we're still suffering against a godtier Nurse though I think she's the only one who can really deal with our bs, you know? When we do get a godtier Nurse, she can easily destroy our winstreak like our last 319 winstreak against a Nurse in Midwich (Before the map rework lol).
I can't remember a time where we faced a single M1 killer. It has been mostly Blights, Hillbillies, Ghouls, Nurses, Spirits, Draculas or Singularities.
killer is just being turned more and more into noobstomp simulator and this is sad.
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@EternalLord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953130#Comment_3953130
The problem we're going to see now are bad survivors artificially inflating MMR due to upcoming integrated features in Phase 2 QoL. We have yet to receive detailed information what the features are going to be but I read a leak somewhere that BHVR is going to add basekit Unbreakable and Tenacity to Chaos Shuffle that's arriving soon.
I can only assume that we're getting basekit Decisive Strike from Anti-Tunneling feature and I'm not sure about Anti-Camp. I guess we get basekit Unbreakable first then basekit Tenacity where it says 'Continued improvements' next to Anti-Slugging.
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but the real problem isnt that devs trivialize dealing with killer's macro strategies it's that they dont give killers alternatives and just give them more slowdown for free.
we arent getting a viable macro skill expression, we're getting another +10 seconds on gens and more clueless people saying that anti systems didnt do anything because killrates are even higher.
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@EternalLord said:
Killers tunnel for a reason but usually high MMR tunneling is detrimental since they know how to counter it and they use perks against it. I play with a SWF and we all use DH, DS, OTR and UB or Shoulder the Burden. Tunneling is useless against us.
I haven't got the faintest clue why they want to make the game easier for SWF.
because they either dont understand what the problem is or how to solve it.
or they do and they choose not to.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953113#Comment_3953113
Killer is inherently made to be extremely easy. There is no arguing that whatsoever. You act like every single game is against the 4 best players in the world, when it just isn't. You are on average playing against people of the same skill level, or lower. Every game the average player is the majority. If every game was as you say so survivor sided then the escape rates would be 80% or higher, but it isn't. You are on average playing against "good" players 1/10 games, you aren't playing against comp wannabes bullying you out of the game every single match. And you keep saying "macro" you mean, literal exploits? Oni 180s are an exploit the devs have kept in the game because last time they removed it there was so much backlash that entire side of the community would have imploded, the same thing as "hug" techs, both exploits, it sounds more like the devs are scared of killer players when they try to remove blatantly unfair mechanics they get met with heavy criticism because "its been in the game all this time you can't just patch it!11!!" And you say when the game is 2 taps under 30 seconds its weighted to survivors, its not? Whatsoever? If the chases are ending after 30 seconds every single time, like they do with nurse and blight, then its entirely killer sided. Killer gets map pressure, killer gets free time to do whatever the hell they want. A killer always dictates the game.
No I dont act like that but keep putting words in my mouth.
See, this is the problem with people like you, you are substituting concepts and acting like asking to have agency is the same as asking for free wins.
Notice how I talk about both edge cases, I dont find neither unloseable games vs bad survivors nor unwinnable games vs good survivors to be a healthy thing, but you're kinda too self absorbed in your "entitled killers" narrative to realize that.
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@jedimaster505 said:
Tunneling is a low skill, high reward strategy. You can be a baby killer and still get decent results against experienced survivors doing it. So it always feels like a cheap, undeserved win, because it is. The kill rates are so high now on every single killer, that killers have nothing legitimate to complain about really, it's just nitpicking at this point. Sure, if they stopped tunneling and proxy camping and slugging, kill rates would decrease somewhat, however, they'd still win the majority of their matches playing honorably. The killers with inflated high MMR would lose a bit and go back to mid MMR where they should be. This idea that killers are forced to tunnel is nonsense.
The so-called "low tier" killers nowadays, are basically what used to be an S tier killer in 2016. The new S tier is really an S+++++++ tier killer. It's that easy. Killer mains nowadays are far more entitled than survivors. Survivors are complaining because they lose most of their matches as the stats are showing. Killers complain because their win streaks are broken by survivor teams that are better than them, in spite of winning most of their matches. Remember, all the meta perks that survivors bring is only the survivors' attempt to bring the average escape rate closer to 50%, and it still fails to accomplish this at the highest MMR with a 4 man SWF with comms. So killer mains have moved the goal posts very far over the years, such that they are basically gaslighting survivor mains when they say the game is survivor-sided.
Wraith is not weak in chase. He has very high mobility and can block vaults and pallets. Nor is Oni, who can easily 1 hit down at rapid speed with 180 flicks and then go slug everyone else quickly. Ghost Face can 1 hit down with stealth so he can down people quickly. Pig can use their stealth with perks to 1 hit down you and gets passive pressure with the head traps. Onryo can just abuse a build to get condemned stacks and 1 hit downs. If Onryo were "strong" in chase she would be unbeatable if the killer has any competence. She is very oppressive in the right hands as it is.
I repeat, killers do not need to tunnel to win. Most killer mains don't want to hear this, but it's a skill issue. However, the goal posts have moved so far that they feel entitled to 60%+ kill rates, which by definition, is not "balanced". But killer mains pretend that this unevenness is actually fairly balanced because it benefits their preferred role.
One last thing. While I have played both sides, it's just a myth that you need to play killer role to know that it is OP. The official kill rates and escape rates, plus experience playing survivor, plus watching killer and survivor main streamers, make it obvious that every single killer in the game wins most of their matches on average. Mechanically, even the "hardest" killers in Dead by Daylight are relatively easy to learn, but with a somewhat steeper learning curve than the others. However, the oppressiveness of a character like Nurse or Blight completely makes up for it.
I always noticed how people like you make up this collective gaslighting voice that genuinely makes the killer role into exactly what you describe it - low effort high reward.
>claim playing macro takes zero skill and is low effort
>claim that the only acceptable skill expression on killer is playing chase>gaslight developers into removing macro skill expression from killers
>because instead of adding viable strategies they just remove and limit them as any macro = bad unhealthy low effort high reward
>compensate with another equivalent of a slowdown perk basekit because killers do need more time to chase
>act surprised that killer takes even less skill to win vs bad survivors because the game plays itself even more
>blame killers for acting entitled when they rightfully call out how it's even less fun or realistic to try to win versus good survivors because they can do even less
You either dont understand or choose to ignore that this game is not winnable with pure chase pressure anytime the chases are not 2 taps under 30 seconds. The game does not work like this, when it does, it's rigged against survivors. Look at blight/nurse gameplay with 3-4 slowdown perks.
I cant wait how next developer update reveals the new anti systems and with 99% another nerf to generator speeds / buff to slowdown perks that would make stomping bad survivors even easier and take even less effort and which would make killers have even less skill expression.
I wonder if it really is what people want the killer to be - low effort sealclubbing at the price of hopelessly losing once in a while or they just dont understand it.
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they would have to compensate that a lot because this is genuinely the only thing this killer has going for him that gives him any consistency whatsoever.
i agree its boring and i try to avoid using it, but anything else he has is just bad.
it's really disappointing how the kit just fails to deliver a viable fun gameplay loop, all you can do is just go back to hooks and zone.
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please more posts like this so they make this game into bigger uninteractive pve skillcheck than it already is 🙏
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952419#Comment_3952419
I actually played against Blight and Billy doing exactly this on the PTB, we got a 3 man escape with the obsession dead once the final gen was done, mainly because we had 2 survivors knowing how to counterplay. The second they left for the other exitgate, sit on the gate. Have 1 survivor following the movement of those mobility killers in case they slug and go back, and take over the exitgate once they go back and pick up the survivor once they fully recover.
Its tedious, but doable. The killers could hold it with relatively low effort, but it was possible.
Again, Singularity was the ONLY one making it literally IMPOSSIBLE. Thats the keyword here, IMPOSSIBLE.and i have seen singularities fail to do it on ptb because they were bad at that, your point is moot because youre basing it on a few instances of anectodal experience.
if singularity was the problem, they would've nerfed him instead of a garbage perk that was only useable for holding gates hostage with the right build and killer, dont you think so?
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950886#Comment_3950886
Note how I added "even if it only happens after exit gates are powered"? If we're talking about a balanced way of destroying biopods before exit gates are powered should require 2 EMP's. 1 to disable active biopods, and 1 to destroy disabled biopods.
That way, you can have more than enough map pressure, as EMP's require quite a bit of time to regenerate or require a lot of survivor time to speed up the process for one.
And note that the issue isnt instantly replacing pods, its that he can replace pods whenever he is near AND doesnt have to do anything for disabled biopods to regenerate. A solo gen requires generally 3 EMP's to fix.
Also, I would kinda say its a lie to say its the only way for Singu to maintain map presence after that change, because Demogorgon can place portals nearby which can be removed fully and requires Demo to physically be there to replace it with a new one. And Demogorgon isnt "only ever playing 3 gens".
Also also, no, its not mobility killers in general that would be able to hold gates on the PTB. They would be heavily RNG reliant at best to do the same thing. Springtrap would need a door next to the gates, if one didnt spawn close enough, he wouldnt be able to keep it. Sadako, same thing but with TV's instead, and TV's can be turned off. Demogorgon, portals can be removed so he is forced to walk back to a gate, meaning the other gate can be prepped. Xeno, similar issue as Springtrap, and flame turrets can be placed nearby to induce some slowdown and global info on where Xeno is. Dredge? Lockers could be locked to slow down. Nurse? Blinking from 1 side to the other was not really worth it. You could counter all these killers by pressuring both gates at the same time. You could argue Twins to be an issue, but even before Haywire, Twins with Terminus and Remember Me could be an issue. Haywire didnt really change that much.
Singularity literally was the only killer who could have 4 seperate access points to each gate, basically bodyblock 1 gate while he was checking the other gate which required 4 seperate EMP's to disable. Singu literally was the only killer who made escaping impossible. Everyone else made it hard, but not impossible.are you actually comparing demogorgon who is using portals as a way of map traversal (which, by the way, is guaranteed at least once per portal to him) and singularity who uses pods primarily as a way of applying pressure because survivors can consistently deny him that mobility apart from certain edge case scenarios which still offer a degree of counterplay?
as for other killers who could hold gates easily, you take billy/blight/kaneki. or coincidentally demogorgon who travels through his portals nigh instantly with all the buffs and who did the whole gate holding routine on ptb with way less effort and just tiny bit less consistency than singularity.
but sure, blame singularity and keep proposing idiotic changes, im sure eventually the white noise from enough people gets loud enough to gaslight devs into making a mistake.
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>Irridescent Videotape should be basekit for sure the most because it increases the time for the TVs to turn back on after being turned off by survivors by 20 percent.
you do realize that videotape makes it impossible for onryo to apply condemn on survivors, which is kinda her core mechanic she plays around, right?
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952220#Comment_3952220
It hasn’t reduced camping or tunneling at all, if anything I’m seeing more of it than ever before.
just because people dont have to do it, doesnt mean they wont. thats why they're adding more and more anti systems. remote hooks are however the so much needed alternative / soft rework to the system that adds up to not making killers have to play like this.
remote hooks actually let me play lower tier killers in my mmr hell without sweating in macro too much because i dont get forced into downtime and unavoidable waste of time and bad position, especially when people die in comp corner which happens way more than you can believe.
