SlowLoris
SlowLoris
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456458#Comment_3456458
Not really.
Map balancing doesn't mean result will be good.
Pallets are not an issue, god windows are issue, there's where you have to bloodlust. You almost always have some.
Your version on Garden of Joy would be hell to play against. Making already strong loop even more broken.
Both are issues, to be fair. As I mention in my first post, Father Campbell's is the #1 offender of broken windows. Pretty much always shack will spawn with the window facing inwards (why not gauranteed edgemap facing?), and most of the time has a very strong tile in front of it. One of the worst being a long wall jungle gym with the window facing shack window.
Again, this is a map balance issue that if they are truly focused on adjusting maps, SHOULD NOT be a thing in the future. If it is, then they have failed at balancing and if they are serious about focusing map balance this year and open to feedback, it would be addressed. If Blood Lust was only for M1/ranged killers, it wouldn't be such an issue, but ever since the buff it has been extremely buggy. Killers are supposed to lose BL when using their power, but they commonly don't (looking at you Wesker), so they continue to get faster while failing their power, but often killer powers are rather oppressive now, so if they're able to use a strong power like that, why are they rewarded with speed when they fail? If it's a tile they know they will struggle to use their power at, then simply be an M1 killer for that tile, but don't continue to fail your power until you magically get 15% faster.
Also, keep in mind that if the survivor is hit, the haste resets, just like BL - or if the chase is dropped (to avoid abusing the speed with shift teching).
Considering the most broken map in the game is Fractured Cow Shed and they have said that they are focused on fixing that next, I'm trying to look on the hopeful / positive side that since they know how broken that map is (they've even joked about it), that they will do their best to avoid what makes that map so broken and continue that philosophy with Garden, etc.
Look at Auto Heaven. While it's not perfect, there is a lot of promise. Fix the window at main, then change pallet dispersal. It shouldn't be DEADZONE --> 5 pallets back to back --> DEADZONE --> 5 pallets back to back. Remove a small chunk of the pallets, so survivors are incentivized to not pre-drop and spread those pallets more evenly, so dead zones are not plentiful.
Again, though, I stated this a lot in my post - this is all reliant on BHVR sticking to healthier maps. While I wasn't happy with the Eyrie balance, at least it was addressed, but it has the same issue of a bunch of pallets back to back, then lots of dead zones. Dead zones feel terrible, and so does having 4 pallets slammed in your face back to back without the survivor even looking behind them.
I will give BHVR credit where it is due, recently they do seem to be listening. I've spent a lot of time providing feedback, bug reports and suggestions to previous patches and a lot of it felt ignored even when I put my heart and soul into it. However, after seeing them roll back the Pyramid Head buff that I truly felt would be unhealthy, then seeing them address the EMP issue so quickly, I'm going to give them a little bit of trust, even if I had almost given up after Skull Merchant release.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Sad is this is still anti M1 killer, which I don't think is good thing.
Keep in mind that the devs are focusing map balance this year and that SHOULD mean removing a lot of pallets. If that's the case, someone going over BL1 should be kinda crazy.
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I feel like this was added for people that mald like I do when I see this.
"It will make it a little more challenging for killers to get those bonus points since I’ve seen it numerous times where Wesker will only M1 you and never use his power instead of using it for distance. Just an example. USE YOUR POWER GUYS!"
Haha, thank you.
It's no secret to anyone in my community how much I despise MMR. I feel MMR was an overall drop in QoL of the game. While grade based matchmaking was NOT PERFECT, games on average were much more balanced and enjoyable. This isn't a rose colored glasses sort of thing, either. For survivor games I had teammates that on average were more aware and understood the mechanics of the game. For killer matches I had relaxed challenged --> sweaty matches. RARELY I would get babies on both sides. Now I get babies 1/3 matches, honestly. It feels terrible. I overall feel I have regressed in skill level since MMR was added and it leads to a miserable experience for both sides.
I also think your point about the first gens disappearing quickly is accurate for RIGHT NOW, but if this was implemented people would focus on filling their categories, which would slow the game down overall. Right now people hard rush gens are secure kills, because that is what increases their MMR. Survivors would be punished for doing this and rewarded for more engaging game play. Killers not securing kills at the start of the game would encourage healthier game play where survivors WANT TO engage with the killer instead of being worried that their mediocre chase skills would lead to them getting secured at 5 gens.
Lastly, I'd say there needs to be a fail safe in place that grade based matchmaking never added. If the killer Face camps someone from the start (i.e bubba), which robs other survivors of killer interaction, etc. Or they're just afk farming. The game should recognize they didn't hit a threshold of points that would be required, so survivors don't lose MMR over the match. They don't gain any, but aren't punished. The same for if a survivor is being face camped, it should be rewarded if they HOLD ON. So, if the killer is within a certain radius and not leaving, a percentage of all of these categories from other survivors should be rewarded to the person on hook, since they chose to be a team player and not just d/c / leave the match.
This would also help a lot with D/Cs. If people continue to lose MMR, because they D/C against killers they don't like / aren't good against, or go next on hook immediately...they'd continue to drop further and further down until they're forced to face them and get better against them. The go next mentality has gotten out of control. Just as I said I get babies 1/3 games, I get go nexters 1/3 games and probably because they ARE IN THE WRONG BRACKET. They aren't ready to deal with the chases they're having, etc.
Please, for the health of the game, even if you don't follow this MMR suggestion (It's a great one, though), please, please, please ,please reconsider MMR. A skill rating is important, but not the way you're calculating it. I have about 6400 hrs in the game on survivor and killer. MMR has led to the least enjoyable era in DBD. Not, because it's constant hard or easy games. Because they're mismatched. I want a challenge. I don't want to feel like I'm getting worse from not facing good opponents. People that want chiller games can choose to not hard sweat for their categories and people that want to be Grandmaster Iri can sweat to their hearts content, but only be rewarded by being really good.
Thanks for taking the time to write this up, Seal. Hopefully they take the time to read it.
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Adrenaline is a reward for finishing the main objective. How would this be a killer equivalent if technically the killer has failed most of their main objective, because the gens are done?
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442302#Comment_3442302
I feel the same way. I also feel it is a slap in the face of veteran players, who missed out on something due to...life or newer players who have no access to older cosmetics.
Exactly. I don't think anyone is gonna complain if these are brought back in a collections tab and you use iri shards to unlock them. Heck, have an iri shard and an auric cell price. Free money for assets already made and people get to round out their collection. Win win.
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I'm not sure if it was just because of it being the PTB, but I will say that I noticed the ping marker next to the ready button had returned even if there was no number. Again, could have just been PTB, but maybe that's why it was closed, it was fixed? This is a really frustrating issue for me being on West Coast. I constantly get VPN killers with 200+ ping and it just feels like there is nothing I can do.
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I 100% agree with this. I'm a huge conpletionist, but I was very new to the game during the first tome and I missed out on a charm and a singular not set cosmetic, because I bought the rift not realizing exactly how it worked and it ended a day later.
It drives me nuts that I'll never have that charm, or that cosmetic, because I've only ever seen them bring sets back, not singular pieces.
I got really excited when I saw them announce the collections tab during the anniversary stream, but it seems it's only anniversary collection items, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Please add a permanent collection tab that adds rift charms and singular non set pieces that came out over a year ago. It drives me bonkers. It's silly, but I'm obsessed with lore accurate charms on my character and I will never have the perfect set. :(
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Now that we've had light interactions removed for a week. I'm curious, how do most people feel?
My experiences.
Basement Hag - Zero Counter now. Times where a clutch save could have been possible with a beamer, it isn't anymore. However, before they went basement, they were massively nerfed by EVERYONE being able to remove their traps with no penalty..so overall nerfed regular Hag / Web players - like expected, but buffed mind numbing play styles.
Wraith - Multiple Wraiths just sitting next to hooks or in basement, because they can't be burned out, so you're forced to run up and get hit no matter what while also not being 100% sure if he's there (big issue in solo queue), then boom, he pops out, farms STBFL stacks, forces trades, swaps.
Nurse - I've only had a couple since the change, but it's the same, I've been unable to stop them from tunneling if they want to, because I can no longer burn them.
Spirit - It was already rare I used this, but it does suck to not be able to tell what side of a pallet they're approaching when they're trying to 50/50 you, but it's tolerable and niche. The rest of the cases feel terrible.
Please reconsider the Light Interaction changes. You've overall nerfed Hag players that play in the least mind numbing way. Made Wraith players play in the LAZIEST possible way, because they can. Nurse is no longer counterable at all if they want to tunnel.
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402689#Comment_3402689
"You can't deny overall it'd have been better for all light sensitivty to simply have the screen dim instead of brighten drastically to avoid the light sensitivity overall. Instead it removed the ability to use them for interactive movement."
Yes, yes I can. Removing the ability to macro and/or spam click has overall been a benefit for me and I don't want what they have to change as they already have a good system that works. Why should we change a system that works into a system that works less? It just doesn't make sense. Oh, for movement clicking? I'm going to be honest... I don't really give a ######### about movement clicking? Like no offense, but I can't in good faith agree to making a worse accessibility option just for something I don't care about. Sorry. They should just make a separate change that goes into Doctor and Red Stains and whatever you said because like I said... don't remove something that already works just for ... "movement clicking". Maybe some things should just stay in the past for the game to move forward because i'd take accessibility any day than clicky clicky strobe lights from survivors. The light AND the noise were annoying. The delay fixed that. I just can't get behind bringing back either or, even dimmed or muted, they should just stay gone.
Clicking (sound) and Light (strobe) are two separate things. Again, I am not asking for them to revert it. If you think I am, perhaps you didn't read the whole post. I'm saying that it was a band-aid, because it would have been healthier if they fixed the clicking (sound) separately, so it couldn't be done, and fixed light sensitivity FOR EVERYTHING with a dark mode of sorts. I'm not asking for it to be reverted, just saying that there are ways they could have resolved both issues that would have been better in the end. There are so many things in the game that make the same "strobe", but much worse, and those weren't addressed, whereas if they'd have made a dark mode it would have covered everything, and that is all I'm trying to explain. The clicking, most hated, and I agree even if I didn't use it for the reasons that most did, it's good that it's gone. It does suck that movement techs with beamers are gone, but me explaining that is to show how more was removed from beamers when it didn't FULLY address the issue overall. I really feel like you misunderstand what I'm getting at.
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401471#Comment_3401471
Nurse still can't blink while blinded and I believe Blight can't dash while blinded either. Being blinded already turn off the ability for a lot of killers to use their powers.
There's just no shine a flashlight a killer and get a free stun anymore.
I was correct about this. As of today's patch notes, it was listed that it was fixed. You are not able to burn a Nurse to stop her from charging blinks. This is the BIGGEST issue with Light interaction changes today.
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@meromero said:
Item specific counterplay should not exist.
I'm curious why you feel this way? Considering all items are counter play.
Killer brought Sloppy, or is hard snow balling? Killer dishes out a lot of injuries, but you need someone healed? (Legion) Medkits.
Killer has a lot of regression, or Merciless Storm and you need to pop out the end of a gen? Killer is high mobility and is able to make massive distance quickly to kick you off of an almost done gen? Toolboxes.
Flashlights are pretty much the only "fight back" item that exists, except for saboing with toolboxes and people reallllly tend to hate saboing.
I think it's okay for an item to provide counter play if it doesn't completely delete a killers power and it has counter play. The killer has the ability to punish you for trying to use your item offensively and that tends to provide more killer / survivor interaction instead of people just predropping every pallet and slamming gens quickly.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401471#Comment_3401471
Nurse still can't blink while blinded and I believe Blight can't dash while blinded either. Being blinded already turn off the ability for a lot of killers to use their powers.
There's just no shine a flashlight a killer and get a free stun anymore.
I have never once heard of them stopping Blight from rushing.
- I can only assume that Nurse being unable to Blink when being burned is a bug, because she was listed as having the interactions removed, but they were only partially removed on PTB. I'd love to know if this was intentional or not.
- Simply holding a flashlight on a killer wasn't a free stun. As I wrote above, it often ended up with you getting hit, but could be used to protect a teammate if necessary and good Wraiths often avoided it unless there were 3-4 beamers. So, a diminishing returns would have been nice, since he is able to approach injured survivors very quickly while in stealth.
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
I don't know. Me personally I'm glad the clicking got removed as I am photosensitive (and the beam clicking actually made me feel unwell). I do not care what the majority of the dbd playerbase thinks, because the majority of the playerbase doesn't have photosensitivity. It's not the "being blinded" as killer (although other photosensitive people can have issues with that too), it was the constant flashlight clicking giving visual overstimulation for survivor and killer. Seeing the flashing lights makes me not feel well. Sure, you can't do your funny trick anymore but you have to understand the change legit helps photosensitive people and the change was a necessary evil. A "dark mode" doesn't fix this stuff as well as the flashlight buffer does. I sure hope you're not implying you think your funny trick has priority over accessibility, as that'd be a hot take and a half.
"so it definitely felt among most that this change was truly for hiding the macro sound, and not actually to solve anything with light sensitivity."
What an uneducated thing to say. Shame on you for spreading other people's nonsense. Don't listen to the majority when talking about the minority. In my opinion, the issue has been resolved and doesn't need to be changed. I'm sure it sucks for people who love survivor movement, but like I said, it's a necessary evil to help people like me.
It's not uneducated, it's simply stating what the majority of people "thought". Also, I have severe light sensitivity and I'm not saying we deal with it the same way, but even with all the macros that I went against, I never once had someone do it while facing the beamer towards me. They always did it for the sound. You can't deny overall it'd have been better for all light sensitivty to simply have the screen dim instead of brighten drastically to avoid the light sensitivity overall. Instead it removed the ability to use them for interactive movement.
Either way, the point of the thread was to show what had happen and based on the ridiculous amount of forum posts - twitter - reddit the average opinion about the situation. It doesn't mean that it was right or wrong, just the AVERAGE overall opinion. I'm all about accessibility and I don't care about the sound being removed, it just felt like a solution that was more of a band aid when a "dark mode" could be used to solve more than just BEAMERS, but also, things like Doctors effects, the killer rapidly flicking their camera and the red stain making me physically nauseated, etc.
@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
I wouldn't object to flashlights somehow working on the Nurse and Blight to reduce their potency. But Wraith and Hag vs a flashlight squad felt a little unfair and I would lobby dodge.
Sure, but you can't deny that all this will do is punish hag players that don't just play for basement. I cannot exaggerate more, how bad I am at Hag and nobody could win against me on PTB, because they were unable to remove traps fast enough, but if I played normally? Easily destroyed my web, no issues, because it wasn't JUST beamers that could do it now, you know?
As for Wraith, I feel he is punished the most and a diminishing returns would have been nice, but removing it entirely feels terrible. I'd say perhaps make it just so it doesn't reveal traps when the beamer is shown on them, only if you directly aim at them, you can burn them would have been healthier. Now there is no way for a hag to even use Franklins to protect from a whole team deleting their traps.
@[Deleted User] said:
Well, no one can accuse you of not putting much thought into this.
I don't feel I should waste my time giving useless feedback, so I try my best to cover every angle. Also, ADHD is a truly terrible thing sometimes, haha.
@Ithiria said:
>🔎 Consensus: The majority of players that play BOTH sides disliked that locker saves were COMPLETELY removed.
I really don't know if this was true? I imagine killer players were really happy about it, and most survivors didn't even notice because it was mostly just done by bully squads and really high-skill SWFs, which the vast majority of survivors don't play in.
Personally I think it's pretty annoying when you have to go after the survivor who wants to do a save because you're left with no options, because if you're playing a weak killer you just don't have a choice but to give up the down you justly just got.
I think overall you also really exaggerate how useful flashlights are when it comes to preventing tunneling, a lot of cases it's only really reliable against wraiths using flashbangs (since you can catch him in situations he can't escape.)
And hag demonstrates an inherent problem with flashlight interactions, if they're super niche, well, they become rarely useful oddities. If they're important, like with Hag, then it creates a bad situation where you can lose simply because you didn't know you were playing against a hag before you got a hag.
Overall, the majority of people that played both sides from what I read were not happy about another mechanic being removed. Killer mains, thrilled. Survivor mains, pretty annoyed. Both sides gamers were mostly like, "did it have to be completely removed, it was just another mechanic taken away". I should clarify, when talking about this, locker saves were definitely among the "higher skill" techniques, so of course most lower skilled survivors didn't have a huge opinion, because they didn't know how to do it...yet. It was something to come back to the game and practice / get better at. In the end, this wasn't to defend locker saves, just to show how they've been changed ANOTHER way and it was another mechanic that just got deleted instead of reworked / adjusted, etc.
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@Gandor said:
Yes. It's sad they decided to remove interactions instead of adding more.
I agree. I feel what makes survivor interesting after 1k hours is learning interesting and unique things you can do to display skill in the game. I hate that more and more keep getting removed.
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Quick Note: I apologize if this isn't in the right category. I'm not sure if the P.T.B forums are already gone, but I couldn't find the feedback forums for P.T.B, so I'm putting it here.
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Reading the feedback from people that don't play Billy at all, or barely did is super obvious. Billy has a VERY low barrier to entry. You can easily play Billy by just using his chainsaw for mobility and M1ing people constantly, or back revving them, because it's so much easier with base-kit. That will work against newer players.
When you start going against better players, that is no longer the case and Billy is insanely slow base-kit. It's been long agreed upon by Billy players and enjoyers that Death Engraving should be base-kit (with no charge penalty), so the idea of engravings being nerfed is insane unless it's compensated for base-kit. You can so easily side step a Billy running base-kit even from like 5 feet away.
Billy can be played with very little learning curve, but he has a VERY high skill ceiling and difficulty curve. That should be okay. It's okay to have a difficult killer that requires a lot of practice. It is not okay to take a killer that is already difficult and just nerf him to where the difficulty is no longer rewarded with payoff.
Comparing Billy to Dark Souls is fine. You say that the games have no unique mechanics that aren't obvious, that's not true. There are many boss fights that you might not originally know there is a pincer attack, or a special mechanic for insane damage, and once you do, they become a lot easier. However, you know the basic mechanics of your character, dodging, blocking, attacking, just like any other killer in the game. But learning those special strats is what leads to you actually doing better and progressing. Easy barrier to entry, large skill / learning curve.
Take Nameless King - you know your character mechanics, easy barrier to entry. It takes you a few attempts to realize maybe not locking on with your camera is best for defeating the dragon stage. A few more attempts, you learn the patterns for dodges, etc...then all of a sudden...what...there is a SECOND stage with a different boss? The high skill curve.
Billy - You know your M1, you know how use the chainsaw to simply traverse, you can understand the overheat mechanic. That works a bit and you get better at learning when to back rev if needed, etc. This is your dragon phase. It took you a few matches to learn how overheat works, and how to not get spun during a back rev, but that's only enough to get through the "easy phase". Now, you're actually at Nameless King, which in theory would be the better survivors and the same tactics you already knew just weren't enough to deal with him. Simply knowing all of that is only enough to get you through phase 1 - Baby Billy phase. You still know your tactics and your abilities, but learning how to use them BETTER and the patterns of King / Survivors to down them. This is you learning how to curve, or recurve with Lo Pros / mind game.
Remember when you were saying a billy just simply flicks a lot and then downs you on a tile he shouldn't? That is the Billy paying attention to a survivor over committing to one side. If they do that, they pay for it. It's very easy to not deal with that if you just disconnect from the tile or pre-drop a pallet. Billy has to learn every piece of collision on every map. Why should he not be rewarded like other killers that also have to do this? i.e Blight / Wesker, etc. Both of those killers will easily down you faster than a Billy unless the survivors are very inexperienced.
Do you know what the game does if you learn those things? It lets you kill the boss. Nerfing engravings lets you learn how to kill the boss, but never actually be able to do it, because Billy is too slow base-kit. If you were still on the dragon phase, you could down the boss, but you're not, so you need better pathing /tactics/and possibly change your armor, etc to down King / Good Survivors.
Either way, I would say Billy is like a Dark Souls boss in a way, and he can be compared. Some people don't enjoy Dark Souls type challenges, others do. For those that don't, there is base-kit and Drift Billy that will let you down easier encounters, but if you're playing Billy in his current state, that's the payoff you're expecting. You're not sweating with either of those things.
The only acceptable reason for nerfing engravings is if they're giving billy Death Engraving (yellow) base-kit with no charge penalty. Also, punishing cross map usage of his chainsaw is very silly since you're only hurting the chillest of Billy players - Drift Billys.
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@gtVel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379685#Comment_3379685
The mechanical challenge isn't really even there. If you don't have engravings, he's not hard. That version of billy exists, he just needs better addons among other changes.
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379441#Comment_3379441
That is still bad product design. bHVR really ought to packup that idea of keeping a Killer being insufferable to play as just because someone says "It's not a bad thing to have a difficult killer" is really bad. Luckily for us they dont make Killers anymore that are insufferable to play as, they have well designed powers you can easily use and that is why Hillbilly deserves a rework instead of life support in death while being bad to play as.
A high skill ceiling? Sure you can have it, but there has to be standards for mechanical requirements to play a Killer and billy is way off.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379538#Comment_3379538
I'm glad you are aware of the issues with Hillbilly, but im not here to retell you that. Im here to suggest to bHVR a full rework of Hillbilly would be better than what exists now. Its fine if you want to tell me not to play him. I already stopped. I only play him when I have a daily to give him a worthy try like every month, but its rarely worth the trouble.
These are concerns I raise cause its just a unhealthy way to manage a product. bHVR needs to realize that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379553#Comment_3379553
Overheat has never been an issue for me on Hillbilly. Less overheat will do little to improve his play rate. Nor has bumping into stuff. Its the mechanical requirement that is out of whack. I think bHVR could solve that with a rework.
Billy without speed is still available for newer players. You can traverse the map with your chainsaw, you can back rev very efficiently without speed for an insta down and break pallets quickly if someone drops them in your face. So, base-kit simple Billy is there. He may not be strong, but he's there and is definitely much easier to win with if you play like that and also basic attack more against newer players. It doesn't make him fun, or very viable against really good survivors. However, if we're talking about a low barrier to entry for newer players, Billy is more than accommodating. There is nothing wrong with his lethality having a higher skill floor and very high skill ceiling.
Edit: Forgot to add, but for those people that want a more "chill" version of Billy, let's look at the other 80% of useless addons he has like rev speed increase while being blinded. Or 20% quieter chainsaw, etc.
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@GΣVΛЦDΛП said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379580#Comment_3379580
Source: Trust me bro I know the opinion of every survivor player in the world
This is truly ignorant. When you get a certain amount of hours in Dead By Daylight, ESPECIALLY if you are a streamer for the game, you start to know many people in the community. The only survivors that I come across who ever have an issue with Billy are those that are rather new to the game and think he's a VERY FAST Bubba, because he's so rare now, they know nothing about him. Most people with a decent amount of time in the game LOVE going against Billy. Some of them love going against him for different reasons. Some love the chase and enjoy being very greedy / hard to read, so those crazy mind games can be outplayed. Some just enjoy an easy win, so they pre-drop pallets like crazy and massively out play Billy's chainsaw. However, I almost never have an experienced survivor tell me they don't like Billy. You get the rare survivors that just hate ANY insta-down mechanic, but they usually aren't bothered by Billy, because they simply pre-drop every pallet and get a GGEZ 4 man escape.
Source: Streaming DBD for over 2 years and in many communities with survivors that have thousands of hours. I'm a 50/50 main who plays survivor and Billy. I know many very skilled Billys, so I've experienced just about every mind game they pull on people and personally I find it to be the most thrilling chase in the game. Oh and not to mention gtVel a partnered streamer on Twitch that plays a ridiculous amount of Billy and is in many communities with high hour players on both sides - he's seen it all. So, sure, "Trust him bro" is accurate, because you should, he's basically the Billy dictionary.
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Living in a world where Billy is nerfed yet again, but Compound 33, Adrenaline Vial, Double Speed Blight exists is insane.
While I understand that you can't do all killers at once, perhaps you should prioritize killers that have extremely high pick rates, not killers that are seen once a month like Billy.
Note: I'm not even complaining about Tombstone piece, that is WIDELY agreed upon as the MOST BROKEN add-on in the game, because it's on a killer that has a much lower pick rate than someone like Blight, even though it should be addressed.
There are very few Billy players left and every patch this game gets more and more difficult to play him. I'm fine with a challenge, but I'm not fine with being challenged and not being REWARDED for that challenge. Currently there are so many pallets on maps that every survivor has turned into a Windows of Opportunity robot that runs from pallet to pallet and insta drops them with no thought.
You might say, "That's a map balance problem" and I agree with that! Do you know what HARD COUNTERS Double Engravings Billy? Pre-dropping. The strongest thing right now - you see it every game - it counters Billy, so we're compensating a slight nerf to overheat by nerfing one of Billy's 6 decent add-ons.
Billy is rare, but my favorite killer to play and verse. In this tiny group of Billys there are 4 types.
1- Baby Billy: These people are very new to Billy and are often just playing him for adept. They use their chainsaw simply to traverse the map (so you're nerfing new players with the extra over heat for sprinting) and they simply M1 down you with their hammer, or get a lucky back rev sometimes. Often they're running Dad's Boots (because they don't understand BIlly's mechanics), Bump addons or Overheat add-ons.
2- Drift Billy: This Billy is really only played by people that are 100% just there to have fun and give everyone a fun time - 0% sweat. They usually run one of these add-on combos.
-Double Boots
-Boots / Engraving
-Boots / Apex Muffler (Stealth Drift Billy)
This version of Billy is not optimal, but is chill FUN and easily shut down if survivors just pay attention around them. He's also very slow, because Billy's base-kit speed is truly a joke. If anything Death Engraving should be base-kit (without a nerf whatsoever). However, this change actually manages to nerf Drift Billy, the most silly / fun version of Billy for people that aren't even used to going against Billy and have a low barrier to entry for people that are new to Billy.
3- Curve Billy: This Billy is by far one of the most difficult Billys to master. If the player is experienced at Billy and skilled with him, they will be able to get decent results playing for curves. Curve Billy is running Doom & Death Engraving together - giving a very tiny window to curve during Billy's sensitivity period. Doing this requires lots of practice and with the CONSTANT collision changes to every single map, you have to learn every object on the map and how Billy interacts with them.
Playing with Doubles requires the person playing Billy to outplay the survivor with mind games and rewards them with a quick insta-down if the survivor misplays. This play style is EASILY shut down by pre-dropping pallets, which is very common in the current meta of Dead By Daylight.
This is the Billy I play and my favorite to verse. I started learning curve Billy, because I quickly realized when I went against a good Curve Billy that it was the most thrilling chase in the entire game. If you greed pallets, it's 100% a chase decided by who has the better mind games / awareness, and feels unbelievably rewarding.
The charge time is already very painful for Doubles, but you are rewarded with speed for it and the skill of learning to "feather" (99% charge) your chainsaw. Not only is pre-dropping very strong against Curve Billy, but so are windows. There are MANY draw backs for running doubles. Not to mention, so few people greed pallets against anyone anymore, even Billy, because most people don't get to experience Billy / learn how to play against him since his original nerf a few years ago, they're basically non-existent, so the challenges of playing Curve Billy grow.
4- Optimal Billy: This is usually Doom Engraving + Lo Pro and pretty much Billy's "sweatiest" combo. Basically if you're running this, you want to win, which is fine. This gives Billy's chainsaw enough speed that it can be lethal with a quick mind game if the survivor slips up. However, does not guarantee that Billy is able to fully take advantage of the slip up, because they're not running double speed. The trade off for this is Lo Pro and is basically required for being viable as Billy in the current meta of DBD.
If you spend a week playing Billy trying to primarily use your chainsaw, you will quickly realize just how brutal it is to play Billy. People don't play Billy, because he's an OP insta-down killer, they play him, because he's challenging and rewarding. Unfortunately, since so few people play him and the player base has increased DRASTICALLY since his nerf, most people insta-drop pallets in Billy's face, which is where Lo Pro comes in. This rewards him with being able to go through the pallet and get one health state of damage and then Billy can choose to either still use their chainsaw for the second hit, or basic attack down them. The thing is, this is still FULLY COUNTERED by someone pre-dropping a pallet early, instead of doing it in Billy's face, so he is still a killer that can completely have his power deleted with how many pallets are currently on maps. Even with all of the obstacles that Billy players face, people still play Billy, because of the challenge and how rewarding he feels when played well. By nerfing Doom (and Death) Engravings, you're taking half of his only actual viable combo for "WINNING" semi-consistently and throwing it in the trash.
If you nerf Billy's engravings, he needs a base-kit speed increase. While we're not all as crazy as gtVel and send ourselves to Lery's (Billy's personal hell), we don't play Billy to absolutely stomp people. We play him for how rewarding it feels to do well with a weak killer when mastered. Nerfing engravings is basically saying, "Hey, we only want you to use your chainsaw for mobility" and then be a Basic Attack Killer", because you're effectively removing the add-ons that make Billy even SOMEWHAT viable.
We dealt with the removal of Sky Billy that was done with Double Engravings. We've dealt with how defeating it feels to sprint off a hill and instantly drop down instead of having any velocity. We've dealt with more and more maps being made without having Billy in mind whatsoever. We've dealt with horrible collision. We've dealt with more and more pallets. We've dealt with overheat that really only hurts people who are new to Billy, or Billy's that are just having fun chases with experienced survivors that want to have an enjoyable chase or 1v1. Please, don't do this.
I try my best to find a positive in everything you guys do, even if I don't agree with a lot (the flash light changes, etc), but this is one that is truly unneeded or deserved. Please stop balancing the game around "Pick Rate" and start discovering why things are picked so much. Perhaps Billy's engravings are picked a lot, because he has so few viable add-ons and even if he did have more viable add-ons, these shouldn't be nerfed simply because they are a chosen play style that isn't broken to go against. In a world where Knight, the killer that just insta drops an A.I gollum to win the chase EVEN AT Z WALLS exists, can we please stop nerfing an already suffering killer.
Every patch you're removing more and more that experienced players care about or enjoy, please don't do this. I don't know if any of the balance team plays Billy, so maybe they don't understand, but spend a WEEK in Billy's shoes - I beg. Please play him trying to primarily use your chainsaw WITH THOSE ADD-ONS for a week, and tell me if they need to be nerfed. I promise, you will change your mind immediately. The fact that Billy has an add-on that increases charge speed when someone is blinding Billy shows you the absolute night and day of his add-ons, which should also show you why these are some of the only viable ones he has.
Alright, end of wall of text, but I'm very passionate about this. Please start speaking to experienced players in your community. Stop listening to just your new players, you are deleting every bit of player agency in this game and removing any sort of new skill to be learned after a few hundred hours.
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Just bumping a few issues since it's Monday, and they're most likely buried. Just want to get a quick eye to find out if these things are intentional or not.
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Can we get confirmation if this is intended or not,? Been a bug for almost a year now.
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I tested this again today on other killers, it seems to be all + it is related to the survivor not wiggling.
To go along with mad grit bugs, or INTENTIONAL? - Is it intentional that survivors on a killer shoulder always stop moving like they used to only do with Mad Grit, or are they not supposed to have the same animation. I.E If a killer hits me during a protection hit and they don't have Mad Grit, there is no way to tell that they don't or do have it, because the animation is the same.
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Can we get confirmation if this is a bug or not?
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This has been an issue for a while now, but seeing as you guys are fixing multiple map issues, I figured I'd bump it.
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@CBT137 said:
Oh no this is horrendous they need to fix this right now
I agree. It's silly, but it always brought me a lot of joy :)
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Considering it said max blink charges in total, I'd hope they'd consider that a bug. It feels absolutely miserable to go against.
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@fake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290331#Comment_3290331
If it is identified as a game breaking bug, it will be kill switched.
If not, it will be... You get the idea.
I have seen inconsistent BHVR behavior against the new map, so I don't expect to see it.
TBF, the new map was rough, but 4 people being able to infinitely heal is a bit more of a pressing matter.
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@fake said:
Now then, would they recognize this as a "game breaking bug"
I would sure hope so. If a team of 4 all cleanse one totem? That's unlimited 8 second heals. That's game breaking.
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This really needs to be addressed immediately, it's nuts.
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I've seen quite a few posts get marked as "Acknolwedged", but not this one. This is the same level of mind numbing as AFK pig. Could we possibly get some Dev eyes on this?
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Yeah, unfortunately it seems like many people are making videos to show off this "unique strategy", so I'm definitely seeing it more.
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@SpicyChicken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272966#Comment_3272966
That is so strange, so you get the missed skillcheck punch whenever you are selfcaring and Reactive Healing activates?
If this isn't a bug, I'll feel silly for making a post about it. But it feels so weird/unfair that it autofails and makes a punch when it's nowhere in any of the descriptions of the perk or on Haemorrhage. I've been thinking it was a glitch to be patched out for months now. But I remember it happening as far back as the Anniversary event
Yup, it acts as if I miss a skill check if the killer hits a survivor within the range of Reactive Healing. It'll give me the progression, but instantly have it go off!
There is no way it isn't a bug and it's uneeded even for regular sloppy butcher. Just have the progress bar flash like it normally does and you'll notice it regressing. No reason to have it prompt the missed skill check, etc.
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Sorry for the quick comment. This seems to be catching on rapidly. Just bouncing around a few streams I saw multiple people encounter it and also others doing it. This is gonna be miserable.
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@Fruitcake said:
I'm fairly certain this is just a part of the new hemorrhage. It gives a visual to the survivor healing that progress is being lost. You don't actually fail a skill check, and the killer doesn't hear an alert.
I could be wrong of course, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is.
This is incorrect. It actually reminds me of a bug I forgot to submit.
One of my favorite builds is Bite The Bullet / Self Care / Botany / Reactive Healing - Beamer.
I'll hover someone to get a beamer save, and I'll heal while waiting for what happens to them, when I get Reactive Healing value (increased healing progress) it does the same exact "failed skill check sound, etc". I have for sure had the killer immediately look at me even when far enough they shouldn't hear the sound, but close enough to get reactive.
It's actually reallllllly annoying whenever I'm doing midchase heals, and someone gets hit not realizing they're looking for me, etc.
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@Mandy said:
ngl I would like for this to be a thing as well, and that is feedback I'm taking back to the relevant parties :)
Personally, I wouldn't mind if I still had to get in a locker to craft them between using one, but...at the very least...I'd like to be able to do a whole gen and not have to get off of it half way through to craft one, then come back. It'd be nice if it stacked to 2, and I could get in a locker and craft one, but still have one craftable, and I could start working on another gen. Right now I have to make a little pile.
Moreover, I feel like it should be done based on the amount of time repairing the gen, not overall progress (this could help with it being pretty much impossible to get 2 flash bangs on one gen). Sometimes a killer will have perks to slow speeds, and it takes ages to get a flash bang (dying light / thanat / pentimento, etc).
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I feel like I don't seem to understand this either. A month before the patch went live all of my killers (except 3 or so there were P3) were level 50 p0, because there wasn't really a point in prestiging them. When I heard that there would be a reward for doing this I started grinding like crazy during the event to make sure that all of my killers were P3 before the patch went live.
Unfortunately, I only managed this for half of my killers, and the other half were P2-0+, so not P3....
If I'm reading this post correctly, wouldn't that mean that all of those characters should have been granted 2 levels, which technically result in them being rewarded with the prestige portraits? I don't so much care about the levels, but I'd like the portraits, so everything matches if that is something I'm supposed to get.
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Bumping this, because I definitely experience this bug a few times a stream. It'd be nice to get it looked at.
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I want them to fix it, but I also don't want them to. Watching Hunk Legion have a slow Hussle like it's Black Friday and he wants to be the first person to the discount DVDS cracks me up so hard.
Honestly, it's another Legion buff, because I spend the game laughing so hard I can't focus.
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I feel ya, buddy. A lot of people think because it isn't happening to them, it just isn't happening. Thats the reason when midchapter came out I started tracking my games, etc. Tunneling, slugging, camping, BM, got exponentially worse after midchapter and I wanted data to show it.
The crazy thing? It's even worse after Wesker. I didn't think it could get worse, but almost every single one of them sweats like it's a 50million dollar tournament and at least 8/10 give you NOPERS, smack you on hook or bleed you out.
If someone doesn't believe this you can watch my VOD from two days ago. It was my birthday stream, so I went for 12 hours.
Miserable, honestly.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3165226#Comment_3165226
There is a "BHVR Read" reaction (basically upvote that is only available to staff) but that doesn't get used anymore for unknown reasons. It is perfect for showing that feedback was read without committing to anything.
I asked about why it's not used anymore, but the thread was ignored:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/175128/why-is-the-bhvr-read-reaction-not-used-anymore
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161388#Comment_3161388
Welcome to the club 🙂
🦆🦂
Did you also have a post "disappear"?
Could we get a Mod/Dev response on this. I'd just like to know if our posts were actually removed or there was a forum bug. My comment doesn't even show up on my profile, and I spent 40 minutes carefully writing that feedback for you guys. It was critical, but constructive, and honest. While I know nobody likes to get negative feedback, I feel it should be okay to receive actual well thought out constructive feedback.
If this was a bug on the forums I can accept that, but to be quite honest, it feels pretty defeating to just have my message disappear and have to assume it was deleted without a response, because that starts to feel like censorship. I assume that's not the case, because a post like OP's post is left, and I would assume a post like mine that was very carefully written would surely come across much better. So, if OP's post wasn't deleted, I can only assume there is no way mine would be.
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Strong response, haha.
I would greatly appreciate any sort of acknowledgement that feedback is being considered for this. This feature is the single most important feature for me in the last couple of years.
Peanits mentioned in a thread they wanted solid contructive feedback, and I'm trying my best to make things constructive / helpful. I wrote a response to them on that post, but for some reason it was deleted. It didn't give me a notification that it was, it just disappeared like it never existed. I'm sure it was a bug, but I'd like to know my feedback is being considered or even appreciated.
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I'm not trying to start trouble, just wondering if the forums are bugged.
I wrote out a semi-long response, because I wanted to be honest an open about communication, but my post seems to have been deleted?
It doesn't say it was removed, etc...it's just gone.
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This isn't blood warden. He has a similar ability like Pinhead / Twins that if you are incapacitated by their power at the exit gate it temporarily blocks exit. When he grabbed you there, it temporarily locked it. You could have got out a few seconds later, but I don't think you saw that part. Best to not wait for hits at the gate against him or the other mentioned killers, because they can do this. It's to make sure if they down you they have enough time to pick you up.
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@Nicholas said:
Thanks, everyone for the pics. I'm curious to see what The Killer sees and what Survivors see when The Killer is having issues.
I don't have a picture, but it looks just like the Wifi bars over survivor, but has a little Knife above it.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
I haven't run into a single survivor running Reassurance, and I wouldn't have known there was a change to basekit BT if I didn't read the patch notes.
Camping & Tunneling are as prevalent as they were yesterday. Game is as infuriating as ever.
One trial everything is hunky-dory, the next i want to uninstall because nothing could be more boring
to be fair, I've been busy leveling multiple characters, etc and using a character that has flans, so they may not have it, yet. When I did have it, I loved it, and can't wait to use it more.
@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3160765#Comment_3160765
Think about it like this:
You're playing an instadown killer like myers and a survivor unhooks somebody near you. As you go to punish them for their misplay, the person they unhooked is constantly bodyblocking you with OTR. You either hit them and eat the endurance which gives the healthy survivor more than enough time to make distance
Or you try to get past them which often doesn't work because bodyblocking killers isn't that hard.
It's not a bad play on the survivor end to do this, but it isn't quite fair because you're trying NOT to tunnel, but they are forcing you to.
Also, I'm going to be honest. As someone that does play a lot of survivor, they know that body blocking with endurance is "rude" and they risk getting tunneled for it. I think in 5k hours of survivor and killer, I've maybe HARD body blocked with it 3 times, because someone came back for me on death hook in EGC or something, and I didn't want them to die for having altruism. But I knew the risks. I'm a very chill killer, and I go for 12 hooks if at all possible, but if a survivor hard body blocks me or forces DS on me when I'm being a "wholesome killer" and not tunneling? They can go back on the hook, and they should know to expect that. I don't see this as an issue whatsoever.
It sucks that you don't get a healthy survivor as an insta down killer, but you get someone closer to death or dead because they asked to be tunneled.
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I just want to give my opinion on this. Simply saying "just throw things" isn't a solution. It's become INCREASINGLY common lately to throw a pallet and it should be a medium safety loop that would normally be broken, but it's just blood lusted. It's infuriating, to be honest.
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I'm guessing it was an unfortunate side effect of fixing an issue that was also happening right after new animations were added. I can't 100% remember correctly, but if you crouched right next to an object and turned your head, it was either really twitchy or super low fps (couple of bugs at that time, so I can't remember which one that is), but as soon as they fixed it, the crouch nodding was gone :(
I miss it. Was one of the few ways to really be wholesome with the killer.
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I mentioned this in another thread, but they are definitely buggy and have been since Dredge release. There seems to be some VERY odd desync that you can't tell is happening, which leads you to either be EARLY when they're LITERALLY already walking away 2 feet from the pick up, or late when the animation hasn't even finished. You end up trying to adjust for that, which leads to be even confused and not confident in the timing.
They also have a couple of other bugs such as
1. When I go for a blind sometimes the flashlight will end early, almost like I ran out of battery, it just drops and doesn't let me finish a blind.
2. I can no longer click correct. Click correcting is super frustrating, because I constantly go from East to West coast, and I'll be a little early on my own ping, so I click correct. I can't do that anymore, and it is pretty annoying.
People keep saying this happened, because they were trying to stop macro clicking, but I am 100% positive click macros are still a thing, and beamers are broken.
I really enjoy trying to get unique saves, etc...but beamers are so frustrating right now.
I probably have a clip of it somewhere, but just before Dead Hard was changed I was in a match where Onryo picked me up. I was in a game with a friend that is very consistent on beamer saves, and she was running for the save. On my screen, she wouldn't have a chance of making it without using Dead Hard for distance. On her screen she said that she didn't waste her time Dead Harding, because she could tell she'd make it in plenty of time. To add on to this, on my end, Onryo's animation looked like it ended 25ish% early. So, I definitely think what others are seeing is not the same as what is actually happening.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
Hasn't it always been like that?
The trick is to find an area where chains can't spawn to hit you, like one of those small |_| shaped structures or an area where you can squeeze between rocks. I can't ever get the box done unless I'm surrounded on 3-4 sides with objects, but it works.
No, they adjusted it shortly after his release. At some point it was dodge the chains three times or remove them, then you'd have a window of time you could solve it. Then it turned into dodge the first chain, etc. And there are very few places you can get that the chains won't interrupt you, especially if they have extended solve time.
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To go along with this you cannot hear the terror radius while on second hook state, so every killer kind of has built in insidious.
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I swear this isn't me trying to advertise, but I thought I was going nuts. I had this happen to me multiple times the other night and I was so tilted I had to make a video.
I got bled out in one of the games because the Pinhead thought I was BMing with the box.
This bug is super frustrating and for a while it did appear to be fixed, but it has definitely returned. I've noticed..and this could just be coincidence ....but it might be ping related. Any time this has happened to me I've been 90+ ping. Playing with either NAEAst gamers or EU friends and I'm west.
If the video isn't allowed, let me know and I'll remove it, but I felt it really contributes to the topic.
https://twitter.com/RealSlowLoris/status/1559867639341539328?t=di7g-EYtrnvMsMUXC7E4Eg&s=19