SlowLoris
SlowLoris
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐❌❌
Pallet Density:⭐⭐❌❌❌
Map Specific:
Temple is sort of okay, because sometimes it did spawn with almost nothing, but I could take or leave the change to it due to its size.
Overall: I should start by saying I loathe Red Forest. What used to be a realm I loved, besides how massive it was changed when realm beyond created the demon log into bush pallet tiles. Again, I play mostly collision killers, primarily Wesker, so most of the tiles on Red Forest force me to simply M1 and the ones that don't I'm often so far behind because of the others that I feel like I need to make up for it with a quick M1 mind game.
So, what I'm saying is, I like that this change reduced how many of those devil tiles exist, because they make me crash out.
However, you guys went overboard on density for this realm and it wasn't needed at all. Why did we add double pallets to this map, especially with how bad the collision is..they make me want to uninstall.
Overall, I guess what I'm saying is, if you could roll back the density and swap out some of the demon tiles with better collision tiles that are playable it'd be in a pretty decent spot.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐❌❌
Pallet Density:⭐❌❌❌❌
Map Specific: Holy Moly Family Residence has so many fillers
Overall: I've always felt Yamaoka was close to balanced, even if I wish there were less rock tiles, since I play Wesker. If I could have my dream change it'd be to keep the old DENSITY, but change many of the safe rock tiles to be actual structures, so non S tiers can actually use their power at them. You've managed to make the Pagodas pretty miserable and removed the ability to cut someone off that uses them poorly, since they insta tie into multiple pallets or windows. However some of the tweaks to certain tiles make them feel so much better to play.
Bottom line, old versions much better than new, even if I wish the previous versions were tweaked.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Pallet Density:⭐⭐⭐❌❌
Map Specific:
Rancid Abbatoir + Rotten Fields = Perfect
Overall:
Besides the two mentioned above, you guys went a bit overboard on density. Cow Shed was already brutal due to the amount of large safe tiles. However, I do love the changes of tile types on all maps. Less of the massive guaranteed safe hay tiles and more middle ground tiles. There are just a bit too many overall. I've always felt like Thompson house was almost perfect, but could maybe use something small in the center, etc, but you guys stacked it. I do love the overall change to the jungle gym tile, though. I've always disliked the shorter tiles on Coldwind, since some of them had so few resources it felt bad that the good ones like jungle gyms were less strong.
Please consider keeping the two I listed the same, but tweaking the density of others.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type: ⭐⭐❌❌❌
Pallet Density:⭐⭐⭐❌❌
Map Specific:
Forgotten Ruins: This map is fundamentally flawed due to the portals, but I do appreciate you guys trying. My issue is, in your attempt to fix the lack of safety up top you've made a ridiculous amount of edge map pallets and nobody wants to intentionally run edge map, since that can easily get you zoned into death AND IT SHOULD, if you're playing killer well. So naturally if you play survivor and aren't running WoO you rarely think of going edge map, so it feels terrible, but if a survivor knows how much is there it's miserable for the killer.
Overall:
The filler / lack of substance tiles are a bit overboard. There are so many of them.
At the same time I'm thankful for this, because for some reason you guys have a philosophy on this realm to screw with survivors. By that I mean, you'll take a jungle gym or a 4 lane and where a survivor knows a pallet should spawn, you say, " GOTCHA!" and it either doesn't exist or it's reversed from where it should be . Sometimes you get super spicy and move a window two feet over, so if you try to run it like your muscle memory tells you, you'll slam into a wall.
I've said before and I'll say it again, I love RNG and new tiles. I don't enjoy running to a tile that should be one way, but it's randomly different. If you want unique tiles for the realm, make UNIQUE TILES, not tiles that are pretending to be one thing and end up being another. Shattered Square is one of the few realms that makes me wish I permanently ran WoO to know if you guys decided to prank me.
So, with all of that being said, I prefer Shattered Square like this, since it reduces me getting baited, but it is overall worse for interesting tiles and brutal for M1 killers.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐⭐❌
Pallet Density:❌❌❌❌❌
Map Specific: I'm putting this under map specific, because I genuinely think it's a bug related to Blood Lodge. Before the update and now, I could load into Blood Lodge and it was rare, but EVERY SINGLE PALLET that could spawn would spawn. If there was debris that could spawn a pallet it did, etc. I want you guys to look into this, because that is impossible to deal with when it happens. I thought there was a cap for pallets before the update, but after I saw that I knew it didn't exist, or it was bugged on that map.
Overall: I love the switch up of certain tiles. Most notable I enjoyed the RNG changes in the center of ARP. The center of that map has always been strong, but now it could spawn in ways that kept me on my toes. I'd just say to be careful once again on what tiles are allowed to spawn next to each other to avoid the Crotus syndrome. As for overall density, it's insane. These realms have always had more than enough and sometimes way too many (looking at you Gas Heaven) pallets. I'd say a safe middle ground is continuing to adjust what tiles spawn, but going back to close to the density as before and tweaking (nerfing) certain maps like GH/BL.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐❌❌
Pallet Density:❌❌❌❌❌
Map Specific: I didn't think you could make me hate getting Father's Campbell's more than you had, but hoo boy was I wrong.
Asylum size reduction is good
Overall: For years when I've given an example of a map that is poorly thought out for broken RNG I always use FCC. The reason why is because it was not uncommon to get shack window into jungle gym window that often easily got you to main building which is a whole other can of worms. Somehow you took that philosophy and said, "what if we doubled down, but also took away any ability to mind game for the other pallets?" I cannot stress enough how survivor sided it already was and then you doubled that. The ability to get the 2v8 tile that is basically Crotus's version of two pallet gyms facing each other, but the walls are waist height is absolutely insane. On survivor I can basically figure 8 loop this tile for ages forcing them to respect and if I do end up having to drop one, I can easily do that, remove their bloodlust and play the other side all while still being VERY SAFE, because I can see them. Now, add on to that being able to chain all of these things into a main building that is still absolutely miserable all these years later and you've lost the game if you aren't on Sally or Talbot.
DON'T ROLL THIS REALM BACK - DON'T KEEP IT LIKE THIS - GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
The map needs an entire overhaul on distribution and what tiles are allowed to spawn next to each other. You should never have shack window facing another window. There are times before this update that I'd simply refuse to take chase near shack and just accept I'm losing that quarter of the map, because if I chase a good survivor there, it's over
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type: ⭐⭐⭐❌❌
Pallet Density:⭐⭐❌❌❌
Map Specific: none of my feedback is related to Ormond Lake Mine
Overall: I'd like to give a small reminder that all of my map feedback is coming from both sides, but also on killer mainly as Wesker, a collision killer. I normally LOATHE Ormond. Back when you guys made multiple variations, it was my personal hell (besides Nostromo, it will always be top). However, for me it wasn't even how many pallets there were, even though some of them had an INSANE amount, it was the TYPE. Most of them involved very large rocks that were basically impossible to use my power at against decent survivors. So, while I do think you've overall made a lot of the tiles incredibly boring due to no mind games, I'm torn, because I can actually USE MY POWER at most of them. So please, consider making the tiles more skillful for both sides by allowing mind games as killer, BUT DO NOT GO BACK TO 90% BEING ROCK PALLETS, I BEG OF YOU. Keep these sorts of shapes! As for density, it's betterISH, but not even close to where it should be. There seems to be some confusion on this realm on if it's okay to just reduce and spread the overall amount as long as they're super safe and I don't personally enjoy that, especially when the few tiles that allow for mind games directly tie into a safe one - every time.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐❌❌❌
Pallet Density:⭐⭐⭐❌❌
Map Specific: Pale Rose seemed to miss the whole dead zone deleter, but decided to make every pallet you get a sanctuary. By that I mean, you still have a massive dead zone in the middle, but the tiles you do get are crazy strong since they all connect to something.
Overall: My number one most hated thing is edge map pallets. Traveling to edge map on swamp is so much worse than any other map, because there is almost (not always) never an objective to protect near it. So, not only do I have people take me there and waste my time, but now they can loop there and waste more time. Pleasssseee remove these, even if it means you make tiles near them as long as they're closer to objectives. Unless you want to guarantee there is always a gen roughly near them. Next, having multiple POG logs that connect so easily is brutal and should be reconsidered. I do think these realms feel BETTER pallet wise now, but that's only because they were so miserable before. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it needs more BREAKABLE loops. The issue with it now is while the safety is spread fairly, a good loop can never be removed since it's structures and windows. That leads to killer late game still feeling like early game sometimes.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Pallet Density:⭐⭐⭐⭐❌
Overall: This change was almost perfect for Haddonfield. I have only one issue with the change and that's how you guys distribute middle road pallets. The road definitely needed the amount you gave it, but if I'm being critical in my feedback I do think the absolute center pallets should be spread more, as in all along the road instead of three strong pallets basically touching each other. It doesn't always happen, but when it does it's just kinda boring and someone will instantly eat them at the start of the match creating a dead zone.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐⭐❌
Pallet Density:⭐⭐❌❌❌
Map Specific:
Sheltered Woods is infinitely better and can be left alone.
Overall: I know a lot of people are going to just immediately shut down any changes, but I personally LOVED the new tiles on Macmillan. Could some have been tweaked slightly? Yes. However, against good survivors Mac has become pretty painful on killers like Wesker unless you're running Brutal permanently. I feel like before the tile change I could never take it off and now most of the tiles on Coal Tower were playable without being forced to just break pallet into power. I also loved the shakeup in the middle of Suffo Pit and it genuinely refreshed the game for me.
Please consider keeping the new tiles, especially the SHAPES that make them more playable for collision killers, even if it means some of the more unsafe ones are buffed a bit. However, the density was out of control. It got two stars purely because Sheltered felt a lot better.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007897#Comment_4007897
Ah that makes sense then. I never play scratched mirror to win. I play it for jumpscares so i never really paid attention to all that. Thanks for the heads up
You're welcome! I think once people notice that Memorial Flower makes you 110, and all the other bonuses that new scratch mirror has, they'll realize why it has to be that rarity. I versed someone with a full haste build the other day and genuinely felt like there wasn't much I could do verse it. Constant aura reading at the tile I was at, so the most I could do was pre-drop, but even then, at any tile he wasn't forced to break, it was a lose lose. I stay at the tile with constant aura reading and they get an easy hit on me. I hold W to a safer tile, he sees that and with a haste build stays on me.
I do love a good scratch mirror going for jump scares, though, so I'm happy that he'll be able to do this on more maps now, since the map change kind of deleted the ability to play it.
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First, I'd like to say 100%, revert the change to activating Evil Incarnate. The forced uplook feels terrible and makes it feel infinitely worse than it did on PTB, even though PTB was slower. (Thank you for keeping me in mind, Emeal <3) I versed him a few times on PTB, and never felt like I had an issue reaching a tile if he popped it on me in the open, unless I was in a SERIOUS dead zone, because it took so long to activate. I do think it was a bit too long on PTB, but there was no reason to add the camera uplook to make up for reducing the duration of activation, it's unneeded. Even with his power being so much better (on ptb), it still didn't feel overly oppressive compared to so many of the recent killers on the roster.
It no longer feels worth it to fully charge his slaughtering strike, because of the nerfed the speed/duration, and if you do try to do it to outplay a tile, it's extremely easy to hold W verse now. Not to mention for some reason the way his collision works on live is different than PTB. On PTB he felt a lot like Oni, Chucky, or Pig in dash, but now he feels like you not only massively nerfed the lethality of that ability at tiles, but he's covered in sticky paper, so he gets stuck on everything, further increasing how bad he feels.
On PTB I felt he was pretty close to perfect for the rework they were aiming at, but for some reason they massively nerfed him on live and added extra unnecessary sound cues. Having a sound cue for when he's charging Slaughtering Strike is unnecessary, because you should ALWAYS be playing safe when he's in Evil Incarnate. You should always assume he could use it around a corner verse you if you're in chase with him during this. Instead this just kind of gives an overwhelming amount of info that deletes the ability to mind game at tiles against decent survivors, since they know you're much slower while charging this, and they can easily hold W away from the tile the second they hear it charging.
It's odd how clunky the changes to his dash are now. From how it feels during use, to how little distance you get while charging it. One of the few things I said on PTB that should be addressed was, you could BARELY charge it and get Coup lunge, which could feel very cheap. Instead of simply having a threshold you must hit before you can use the ability, but still keep the ability to charge it longer for more distance would have resolved this.
Sorry, went on a bit of a tangent there, because I'm sad that I did quite enjoy the rework (for the most part) on PTB, even if it wasn't how I would have wanted Myers reworked, it was fun. I don't know why they decided to make so many changes from PTB to Live that simply make him feel CLUNKIER.
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I don't think people realize just how strong new Scratch mirror is. With one brown addon, you can be a 110% speed, perma undetectable, normal lunge killer with wall hacks.
It was the buff it needed without map offerings, but it should stay IRI, because it would be mind numbing to permanently verse people running it with haste perks.
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@HolyDarky said:
Agree with pretty much everything.
Vigil needs a bigger nerf because it counters 30 perks and addons as well as two killers for free which limits so many builds and varieties. A strong perk should never give free value and then to others on top of it.
Tenacity nerf is a mistake and it should go back to it's normal state.
Off the Record the issue is that many players abused it to bodyblock the killer which felt so awful to get forced to tunnel. Survivors still have a good amount of strong anti-tunnel perks such as Babysitter, Borrowed Time, Blood Rush, or Shoulder the Burden. The general main issue of tunnelling is also rather SoloQ issues than tunnelling and that should be fixed instead of giving unhealthy fixes.
The Leverage nerf is awful and ruined anti-healing builds that were one of the few unique build variants killers had.
I rather feel like UW should go back to it's either original version or the aura reading version with the limitation that it activates when you hook a survivor. This would give killers a good alternative info perk that encourages them to leave the hook and go for different players.
Ravenous is underwhelming :/ 60 seconds of exposed after playing Mr nice guy is just underwhelming and other perks are easier to use. It needs a bigger buff.
If Vigil gets its nerf, Ghost Notes is mostly fine but it should not stack with Lightweight. I also think the main issue are Sprint Burst and Lithe since these exhaustion perks are too strong for how easy to use (there is a reason why the term lithe brain exists). I would rather see a nerf to these two perks and then Ghost Notes should be fine.
Agree with 1234 and Bardic Inspiration. They are funny perks and should get some love.
Yeah, the change to Leverage is one of my most hated changes.
My chill build on Chucky is Enduring/Nemesis/Furtive/Leverage and Straight Razer (sloppy)/Jump Rope
I basically just go for crazy scampers and if they camp pallets I swap obsession with nemesis/enduring for aura reading, and guaranteed furtive while also slowing down heals off hook with my addon+leverage.
Not anymore. Literally, the perk was fine. If people weren't using it, it wasn't because it was bad, it was because they're just addicted to running nothing but slow down. I really hope this gets reverted.
Yeah, I feel like Off The Record will most likely temporarily get reverted to either what it was, or a nerfed version (60s) of what it was, but I really hope it gets a full rework when the anti-tunnel system goes through.
Ravenous is such an unfortunate perk, because I actually just vibe playing super fair overall and tend to simply match the energy of the survivors I get. If I get really chill survivors, I go for 8 hooks. If all survivors were alive at 8 hooks, and it reproc'd 60s of exposed? I'd make builds around that. It'd be fun to try and challenge myself for it.As for Vigil, I think genuinely reverting it back to when it was only 30% (2 changes ago), and simply increasing the linger duration a bit would be more than enough of a buff for a perk that was ALREADY GOOD. They could also possibly add in a restriction of reducing hinder from killer powers.
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Yeah, it'd be awesome if we could get this looked at! Not sure why it was not only nerfed (when all the changes didn't go through) and now it's bugged to not let you recover while crawling.
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I noticed this, too.
I do love Glitchtrap's design, but I have a significantly harder time versing him. Even at loops to have any idea what they're doing. I didn't originally make a thread, because I wasn't able to test it manually (don't own the skin), but it's super obvious when going against Glitchtrap.
Not only that, but the reduced range + the harder to hear sound make Glitchtrap brutal on maps where you cannot see the doors front plate.
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Man, this conversation is so frustrating, because people can't seem to understand not everyone wants bangs to be BROKEN. A lot of us just want them to work properly. The new "angles" you can get bangs are almost impossible to get consistent value out of. I'm not even talking about for grasp saves, I'm talking about in chase. The audio was also over corrected (it's super loud, even when properly muffled), so it's impossible to drop them in chase and have them blind, even if tactically done, because the sound is always the same volume. Not to mention dropping them when hopping out of a locker with head on is almost impossible to blind them with now. Not enough time to move far enough away, and even if you could, the angle is almost impossible….but you know what I COULD do that with? A beamer.
The goal was to make the angles = to beamers, but that is not the case of what has happened. The angle was over corrected. As for people saying "he looked up". Do you think killers don't look up the second a beamer finishes? Of course they try to, and often times it'll show them flicking their head upwards right as the pick up ends, but it's too late, because they did indeed get saved. The same as it should be doing with bangs, but because the angles are so over corrected, they aren't working. The buffer unfortunately makes it VERY hard to be early, and the bang in the video wasn't LATE.
The angle that the bang was dropped I easily get a beamer save with that, so there is no reason a bang should not work.
The only way this change is even remotely acceptable is reducing detonation from 3—>2 seconds, so it's the same amount of time to get in place as a beamer, but EVEN THEN, it still isn't the same possible angle. Beamers can blind through cracks that are high, etc..bangs can't, so you can't do them as far away as a beamer (especially due to their range in general, which also wasn't buffed to compensate for removing the ability to be even remotely close - not asking for this, just saying, that's the only way it could even be partially comparable). Beamers are able to be much more versatile in their angles/locations/cracks, etc…so they can be further away, especially with lenses. Flash Bang cannot do this, so there has to be some sort of leeway to allow them to be at least as close as the bang in the video (ESPECIALLY SINCE I COULD GET THAT WITH A BEAMER).
I'm not begging for locker saves to be consistent, or to blind killers facing a wall. I just want bangs to work in chase again, and saves to not be a 100% trade attempting to go for them / impossible & I waste my bang.
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I'm genuinely shocked there are not more posts about this.
I'm happy to see they've accepted 180s as base-kit, but they've made them basically impossible to do and just overall made him feel much worse for even not 180s. It feels like you're turning in molasses.
I can't believe this is legitimately how it's intended to FEEL. Everyone seems to be accepting it as status quo, but maybe this isn't what it's supposed to feel like?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905687#Comment_3905687
Please Nancy, You must defeat the Three Goblins in the Huntress's House, the Safety of the Village depends upon it!
This made me laugh more than it should.
It seems every patch takes a bit more of the DBD "Charm" away from the game. It's small, but keeping them referred to as, "Rituals" preserves at least a tiny bit of that flavor that sets DBD apart.
They mentioned recently that a lot of people take a while to even realize they have perks they can use, so maybe this is meant to help make the new players from FNAF have a much easier start in DBD, but this is really a non-issue. A better tutorial in the game that mentions "Hey, don't forget the Rituals system! clip showing where menu is Perform certain Rituals for the Entity to gain favor and earn Blood Points, Shards, and Cosmetics!"
Problem solved and we don't sound like a mobile version of World of Warcraft.
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I think this is also a huge reason for the "gen rushing" in the mode. It's not just the lack of slow down perks, it's the fact that you set the canister down, you'll lose it, so you tend to stealth a lot more to guarantee you're able to use yours…but even worse is when you repair 90% of a gen, but need a tiny bit more blood, so you try to go grab it and before you get back someone pops it….then you get nothing for all your work.
Please BHVR, please fix this before the event is over. It'll also massively alleviate the need to "slam" gens, because everyone gets credit. This is greatly needed, so gens slow down a bit, since slow down perks can't be used.
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@Mandy said:
Flashbangs now work as they were always intended to work, it was never intended that the survivor model could clip into a killers model so that they could get a blind which a killer couldn't avoid - even when facing a wall. Same as the audio and blind radius - you should not be blinded when looking up (which was happening) and you should not be blinded if the flashbang is not within your range of vision, hence we adjusted the angles. There has to be a way for the killer to avoid the flashbang, before it was incredibly easy to just drop the bang and the killer would be blinded with no way to avoid it, that's definitely not something that was ever intended to happen.
Whilst I appreciate that those who enjoy using flashbangs, have to now learn the new radius etc, the previous version was bugged.
Hi Mandy, I appreciate you commenting on this, but the issue is, I think think bangs were accidentally OVER CORRECTED. Like I said in my post above, I'm completely fine with not being able to blind against a wall, or locker saves being buggy, or bangs that are directly under the killer.
The issue is…now you can't even get them from angles that FLASH LIGHTS can. This makes them almost unusable in chase unless the killer is animation locked. For example, These pictures show angles that are not successful at blinding the killer, but I 100% could get these with a flash light. I don't know if it's INTENDED that the blind zone was tweaked this hard or an accident. I'm bringing this up, because I think it might be a bug / accidental over correction.
On top of this, I know the main post doesn't address this, but it seems that audio was over corrected as well. This used to be one of my favorite chase perks, but when you guys fixed the bugged audio from Christmas through now, you actually made it much louder than it ever was. Now bangs are heard every time they're pre-dropped in chase or for a save. Before Christmas if the survivor knew where to put them to muffle the sound, it wouldn't be super loud, you could hear them if you listened closely. Now it's ALWAYS loud.
This has been a thing since release, the same way it's much harder to hear certain killer powers when they're behind walls, but now every FB sounds like its right next to them.
I agree silent bangs were brutal, but the way they worked before Christmas was not silent, just muffled if the survivor had the knowledge to know how to do that.
Honestly, I wouldn't even care that the radius was nerfed so hard if you guys buffed the detonation time. The issue with FB is that the window to get a blind/save is so small that you have to be rather close to the killer, even with BGP or SB, you almost have to be a couple feet behind them with this new radius, so it becomes extremely hard to do. The killer basically has to not be paying attention to pick up with you close enough to get it, since you have to drop it within the 1st second of the pickup animation, since it takes 3 seconds to detonate and you have to be a few feet in front of them now. If FB was buffed to explode within 2 seconds like a beamer, this change would be completely fine, but it wasn't.
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I'd just like to go on record, this is still the biggest slugging pain point in the game and I very much hope that you are looking into this being added to the anti-slug/abandon options.
I have been slugged for the 4k to almost bleed out or bled out so much since Ghoul came out that my play time has been cut in half, because it's so tilting.
I don't get tilted by much in this game. I don't consider most things toxic. I do however feel very drained after I not only had my 10th Kaneki in a row, but I'm also being slugged for the 4k in 8/10 matches.
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I'm gonna be honest.
Before Flash Bang (all blinds) had the buffer, I used to love getting Flash Bang saves. I felt like I was actually skilled, because there was tight timing to make it possible. Yes, it was annoying when Desync made a save not count, but I'd take that over how easy they made FB/Beamers. That change single-handedly nerfed grasp saves more than anything else due to them requiring zero skill, so killers are more terrified to pick up now.
HOWEVER, I had gotten over this. I no longer really went for bang saves, because they just weren't satisfying since anyone tossing on BGP could get them. Regardless, I enjoyed using them in chase a lot, so I could knock killers like Legion/Wesker out of power, or just in general use with sound muffle around corners in chase, so I could make distance.
Then Crackers/Bangs got bugged around Christmas and instead of reverting Flash Bang audio to pre-Christmas, they gutted it. You can no longer skillfully muffle sound from a flash bang, because they are heard no matter what. This annoyed me, because they're now pretty much useless in chase unless the killer is animation locked.
Then they have now went BEYOND just avoiding wall facing blinds, but have made it almost impossible to consistently use them for a save. It's not a matter of skill in this situation. The angle is so small that if I do go with a loaded Sprint Burst, I'd have to almost be right behind them to get in the area that I could actually get a save with it, which is obviously not going to happen, because unless they're very inexperienced, they won't pick up when they hear you that close.
I agree you should not be able to get saves when facing a wall, but you over nerfed the angles you CAN get saves from. I can only assume with how hard it was for you to fix the FB audio bug there is no chance of you continuing to get audio from FB back to it's pre-Christmas value, but I really wish you'd try.
You've managed to destroy my favorite perk/item in the game. I can deal without locker saves. I can deal without wall facing saves. I get it. I can't deal with them being absolutely useless in chase + having save angles that will literally require you die for an attempt most of the time. The only way this angle works is if you reduce the amount of time it takes for Flash Bang to detonate 3s → 2s. It would still suck, but I'd take that over the absolute gutting that was done to them.
Genuinely, removing the blind buffer single-handedly created so many of the issues people have with flash bang/beamers and like I said nerfed them more than any other change due to how free they are.
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@Emeal said:
I feel like there's an important part missing from this discussion.
The Terror Radius (TR) exists to give survivors a fair chance to react and start running, and it’s especially beneficial for low- to mid-MMR players. In that sense, I’d argue that Wesker is about mobility, even if his ability isn't purely designed for it. His 40m TR helps compensate for his movement potential, making him fairer to play against—especially for less experienced players.
The frustration seems to come from situations where survivors barely get a second of warning before suddenly getting grabbed. That kind of instant pressure without counterplay would feel unfair, and I believe that's precisely why Wesker has a 40m TR.
You're right that Wesker’s power isn’t purely mobility-based, but that’s because his large TR serves as a balancing factor, giving survivors time to react. I disagree with the idea of reducing his TR just because it limits his ability to use his power for mobility. If anything, his weaker mobility in exchange for fairness is a good thing—it keeps him from feeling oppressive.
Honestly, I think we should be glad he has this trade-off.
Otherwise, we'd probably see a lot of posts complaining that Wesker is too strong.I can understand this to an extent and would 100% agree with you if this was the year that Wesker launched and the maps were much less cluttered, but that's not the case anymore. There are so few maps that he can even cover that small distance quickly and unobstructed. You'd basically have to be not paying attention at all to not notice a Wesker at 32 meters from you and there is a HUGE chance he can't even directly use his power to you without getting stuck on something and getting put in recovery mode. If he does manage both dashes, he still isn't landing on you with both dashes without warning. Near you, sure. On you, no. You then arrive with no power and a long recovery.
I'm not asking for a guaranteed change. I'm begging for just a PTB test. Wesker was already greatly nerfed with his infection (rightfully), so now people rarely even waste their time cleansing vs him. They simply slam gens injured, because he's not a threat most of the time and predrop pallets when he's even remotely a threat. This change would at least make people consider spraying, because he could get semi close with them full infected if they skip doing it, whereas now they easily make a resource and ignore this mechanic.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893881#Comment_3893881
"The thing is, using both dashes and going on full c/d saves you less than 2 seconds in travel time."
This can't be accurate. He can literally get from one side of the map to the other side with his dashes.
Please view the video I posted above, you'll see just how little distance he makes with his dashes.
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I feel like the vast majority of people truly think Wesker has MUCH more mobility than he actually has (especially since 2v8 might be messing with a lot of peoples perception).
Because of that I went through and I made a comparison video of Wesker literally walking vs dashing and comparing him to Blight/Billy.
There truly is no comparison. In all instances Blight/Billy reach the same destination in half the time + have most of their power left to continue using it at the destination.
Please, take a look, I spent hours making this. (the embed quality isn't the best, if you want higher quality, you'll have to go to the source for 1080p)
https://twitter.com/RealSlowLoris/status/1899428944480223485 -
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893149#Comment_3893149
I'm sorry but I have never once slugged for a 4k just to Mori someone, I'm not interested in slugging for 4ks and I don't think most Killer Players actually are incentivized like this.
If it's really an issue just allow the Killer to Mori any one person per round that is on death hook and add better antitunnel.No offense, but just because YOU don't do it, doesn't mean it's not done.
I was slugged for the 4k a decent amount BEFORE the final mori was added, but AFTER it was added, it's MOST GAMES.
It has exacerbated the single worst part of the game for me.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I respectfully disagree, and I do believe that this killer deserves the radius that he has, I do not believe that it needs to be any bigger or small smaller.
Wesker can get around the map incredibly quickly, just like Chucky, he can use his dash to attack or reverse the map.
I don’t think it would be fair to survivors if the mastermind had a 32 m radius.Both Chucky and Wesker cannot attack for their full c/d if they use it for traversal. Both killers that have been added to the 40 meter TR club are able to do this just fine while having insane map mobility.
@ReverseVelocity said:
While he doesn't have sustained mobility like Blight or Billy, his burst mobility is incredible.
He's 2m/s faster than an Overdrive Billy. Without a big Terror Radius he'd be able to appear basically instantly with no warning.
The thing is, using both dashes and going on full c/d saves you less than 2 seconds in travel time. I think people see Wesker as much more mobile than he is. He can be an M1 killer and waste both dashes for mobility to save 2 seconds, or he has to walk like normal cross map. With the amount of objects that exist on maps now, there are very few situations he could even possibly use his power within 32 meters to land a hit, so it'd be impossible for him to magically appear on a survivor, unless it was a few feet away with no power.
Billy and Blight are able to appear right on top of you while using their power, or have it as they arrive.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
You have correctly brought up the point that Wesker's map mobility is NOT tied to his kill potential, thus there's no real justification for his 40m terror radius. Billy and Blight's map mobility are inherently tied to their lethality whereas Wesker becomes an M1 killer for a while when he arrives at his destination. His power has significant tradeoffs when used for mobility compared to other killers so I agree that a 40m terror radius is not justified.
Most people blindly consider him a mobility killer, and it's so frustrating. His power if used for mobility saves him just under 2 seconds vs just walking across the map, so the trade off of using it for mobility is not worth it whatsoever, unless you know that two seconds might stop a 99% gen. However, even if you DO use it, you arrive with no lethality whatsoever.
I just hope the devs will consider at least testing him with 32 meters. I think people would realize it's a huge QoL for him, but wouldn't make him broken, since he is still NOT a mobility killer.
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@MissClove said:
Honestly, I don’t feel like they will fix it. I’m just trying to finish up my rift since I already paid for it, then putting the game down again. Don’t know if I’ll come back.
I’m not even sure I will finish this rift. I’m forcing myself to play to finish it and be done.
Past 3 games I played. We were all slugged for the 4K.Finisher Mori has made it miserable for survivors.
I realize there probably won't be time to add it before release, but I desperately hope they realize just how big of a pain point this is.
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While I would GREATLY appreciate a slider to just mute survivor HOOK screams (or at least lower the volume), it'd be really nice if his scream was at least consistent for the mute focus trick. A lot of streamers mute the survivor hook screams to make the viewing experience more enjoyable for their audience and those that run things like calm spirit, because they can't stand the screams.
Nic's scream being out of sync compared to other survivors often leads to not being able to mute it.
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This is actually a VERY annoying issue with the perk. I love the Scene Partner and how silly it can make chases. What I don't love is being unable to vault, drop a pallet, unhook, or pick up a slug, because it stops me. This is only exacerbated if you get multiple scream procs, because it can really cause a massive snowball when it happens.
I sincerely hope this is a bug, and not a stealth nerf. I miss running it so much, but I just got tired of accidentally screwing my team over.
I think the examples in the video are great, but if you need more proof of how frustrating this perk can be, I'll run it today and in just a couple of hours I can have quite a few more examples of how frustrating it is.
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@Peanits said:
Hey folks, I see a lot of questions and confusion so I'm going to do my best to clear up as many as I can.
About the program itself:
- This program is not new, it has existed since shortly after the game's release. Previously consultants were not able to confirm they were part of the group without breaching their NDA. We have recently restructured the program and allowed members to say that they are members.
- Consultants are asked for opinions on upcoming changes and invited to closed playtests where they can give feedback.
- While the program itself is now public info, the details of what they are playtesting and/or giving feedback on are not. Please do not ask them what's going on in there, they cannot tell you.
- There is no public list of all consultants, nor do we plan to share one. We leave it up to each person to decide if they are comfortable disclosing it as it could attract unwanted attention and/or scrutiny.
About consultants and requirements:
- Consultants do not need to be content creators. While some are, others are not.
- There is no application process. We select and invite people who would be a good fit for the program and fill the needs we have in terms of experience with specific aspects of the game.
- Being selected as a consultant is not simply a reward for being a die-hard fan. Consultants are contractors who are paid and have certain responsibilities.
- Consultants have varying experience (e.g. Killers they've mastered), preferences, playstyles, and skill levels.
About the consultants role & responsibilities:
- Consultants must participate in closed playtests. Inactive consultants would be removed from the program and replaced with someone who is able to participate.
- It is a consultant's duty to give feedback on upcoming changes that are presented to them.
- Consultant feedback is used to help make informed decisions, but it is not the sole deciding factor. We need to keep in mind that consultants are highly experienced players and that their impressions may not always align with the wider community (though they often do).
- Consultants do not come up with balance changes and are not responsible for how things turn out. It falls on us to decide what needs to be acted upon. (Please do not harass consultants if there is a change you do not like.)
- Consultants are not QA - it is not their responsibility to test the game and find bugs.
Qualities we look for in consultants (among other traits):
- Trustworthy, as they are given information early
- A wide range of experience within the game (and ideally experts in certain areas)
- Able to provide constructive feedback
- Able to maintain a civil discussion with people who have differing opinions
- Able to set aside biases when giving feedback or acknowledge that their biases may be influencing their opinions
Most importantly, none of this means that your feedback doesn't matter. This program helps us gather feedback for changes early on in development and make adjustments before they are revealed. Once they hit the PTB, feedback from the wider community is just as important.
Thank you for taking the time to share this information.
Seeing this makes me feel like I have something else to strive for, so I can continue to help improve DBD. While I do wish there was some sort of application process, I realize that'd be rather hard with how many people there are.
I'm very passionate about discussing every single aspect of DBD when it comes to how it affects both sides, and all skill levels. I literally spend hours testing/attempting to reproduce bugs, and write detailed feedback on current issues, or changes that I think would be good for the game - FOR FUN. I also constantly encourage people to share constructive feedback for things they care about on the forums.
For now I'll continue to provide feedback and just keep my fingers crossed I might be considered in the future. I know this program coming public seems rather controversial right now, but after finding out evel headed folks like Tofu and Hens are part of this, I have a lot of faith in the feedback they share.
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After continuing to play this mode, I'd like to alter one of my suggestions.
3. Perhaps an offering / option to randomize add-ons/items as well for an extra 50% BP.
EDIT
3. Items should still be selectable, so people can do challenges like "guess what perks I have", BUT ALL ADD-ONS SHOULD BE RANDOMIZED ON BOTH SIDES. This will stop things like killers running the absolute strongest add-ons (Cough Double Iri Blight was misery), or survivors all bringing Syringes or BNP.
You could also still have the option for "Full chaos" to randomize the item and allow for the NEGATIVE killer add-ons for 50% BP increase if you wanted to.
Guessing my perks has been the MOST FUN I'VE HAD IN THIS GAME IN YEARS. It's so interesting to test my game knowledge, but figuring things like "Champion of The Light" out would be impossible if I couldn't bring my item of choice.
Again, I beg, please bring this modifier back as a PERMANENT game mode. Almost every content creator I've spoke to has had their love reinvigorated for this game, because of Chaos Shuffle.
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People would seriously rather be 4% hindered instead of have a 20% gen speed penalty AT FULL INFECTION that after 4 sprays cannot come back no matter what? That's honestly kinda bonkers to me.
I loathe being hindered in chase and as Wesker I don't feel I won a chase if I got them while hindered.
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@Archol123 said:
I like the infection changes, whether it is 1% or 10% after unhook does not matter too much I guess so both should be fine.
The limit to 1 charge per can in combination to unlimited sprays is Allright, although I would prefer it if I could stack at least of them, so you have the same slowdown by needing to rummage it again and waste time on that, but that way it is easier to be able to cleanse someone else after unhooking and maybe yourself, without needing to run back and forth between the crates.
I guess smaller terrorradius and faster CD are Allright, but at least to me they never felt like an issue. I agree however that stealth and distortion are generally annoying to face.
I wouldn't mind you being able to rummage one "extra" spray to carry on you, but perhaps a small c/d on opening the same crate, so you can't just spam both at the start when the infection isn't any sort of threat.
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@GillyBeannn said:
Wow this is crazy, haven't played much wesker as of late myself, but it's unfortunate. Also sorry not to be that guy but, in the PTB, wesker's dash hitbox was twice the size it was then what we're supposed to have currently, it was on launch that made the dash hitbox much smaller and cuz of it, you dashed through survivors.
This is true and you're correct. The hitbox feels like launch week Wesker where you'd get stuck on literally everything, but also slide straight through survivors as if they didn't exist.
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As someone that is almost completely blind in my left eye, this has been very frustrating.
I thought I was imagining it, but this post confirmed it.
I feel like ever since the "scratch marks update" about a year ago, they've gotten progressively worse and worse, but after this update I constantly lose people midchase, because the scratch marks disappear as if everyone is running Lightweight.
I really think there needs to be a bug report filed, because it is making the game miserable.
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After more testing, this doesn't seem to be as obvious on EVERY other map, but it's extremely nauseating on Haddonfield and I've noticed it's very strong on Borgo as well.
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@OsuchinRiberu said:
@SlowLoris Thank you for adding this! I think this is really helpful in portraying how content creators feel when months go by without any visualization of the program in action.
Of course, I think it's important that BHVR sees how this impacts smaller streamers.
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Speaking of getting destroyed because of this, here's an example :)
I get lucky that Billy takes wide assuming I'll flare, but I normally would die here.
Watch "I Hate This Crane" on Streamable. -
Hi there,
I've wanted to make a post just like this in the past, but didn't want to get flagged for "self promo". I actually DID write a post in the Reddit AMA asking if there were plans to rework this program, and since I was worried that it'd be seen as self promo there as well, I went into detail of my trials / tribulations while trying to get my survivor shirted.The post got blocked, because it was deemed self promo, so I'll post here what I wrote, since I think it is very important for the community team to understand how this program affects streamers that do constantly make content for this game.
The body of that post is below!
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REDDIT POST
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Hi there! First off, I'd like to thank you for doing AMAs, the community really appreciates it!
Secondly, my question -
Are there any plans to change how the #ShirtMySurvivor program works?
I was nervous to ask this question, because I didn't want this to appear as self promo, but there is no other way to get actual information on this.
By plans I mean, will someone be in charge of actually making sure this is taken care of consistently?
I feel for this question to make sense I need to explain the issues. Below is everything I've done in an attempt to get my survivor shirted.
I have been trying for almost 6 years now to get you to #ShirtMySurvivor and that was before the hash tag was even created.
- I stream DBD 5 days a week (used to be 6), and I do TikTok/YT shorts Monday-Friday. (Getting over COVID, so I've missed this for the last week or so, but I am consistent, normally).
In an effort to make it easier to get shirted I changed my stream schedule to when there was a better chance for the u/DeadByDaylight Twitch channel to actually be in the office and browsing channels. I used to stream starting at 2am and averaged around 55 viewers at the time. I was approaching partner numbers and probably would have hit that
a while ago.- When I realized that most people who had been shirted streamed during the times that BHVR were in the office and that might be my only chance, I changed my schedule to around 7-8am start time (PST), so I'd at least be live for 5ish hours while BHVR were in the office. I knew I had to make some sort of sacrifice being West Coast, since it'd already be harder for me, because of that.
As one might imagine, I lost a huge portion of my viewer base to this. I now average around 30 viewers, and thought it'd only be a temporary sacrifice, because surely I'd run into BHVR at some point, but still...over a year now of this schedule and I haven't, yet.
- To add on to this, I spend hours of my time submitting bug reports on the forums with detailed videos and descriptions of issues. Lots of feedback on future changes, etc and almost none of them ever get acknowledged, but I want to see the game grow and become better for everyone, so I continued to do it.
- I've probably drove your Twitter manager absolutely bonkers with the insane amount of memes/videos I've made asking for you all to #ShirtMySurvivor - seriously, hundreds. For an entire year I posted a #DBD pun tweet every single time I went live.
- I've even dealt with 120+ ping for every survivor game I've had for almost 6 months now, so I can play on EAST SERVERS for a chance to run into BHVR - that was the last thing I could even think of, and I had to give it a try.
- I have tried so very hard to be a positive voice in this community and I even do the community surveys ON STREAM, so I can explain my feedback from someone that plays survivor and killer, but still...I haven't been shirted.
There was a certain point in time where I felt so frustrated and defeated by this that I contacted support to ask about this, and the answer I got made me truly very sad. When I originally contacted, it was for myself and two other creators, because I had seen both of those creators (who are now shirted, by the way), try very hard and also seem very positive on Twitter.
I originally had a response of "this is how you use the #ShirtMySurvivor tag" and I had to respond with, "I apologize if I seem rude, it's not that I don't understand how the program works, it's that it feels as if the person who is in charge of doing this during the last week of the month is just not doing it, or rarely doing it."
After a bit of back and forth , a support rep told me, "Hey, that's the thing, our #ShirtMySurvivor program is kind of guidelines, there isn't someone assigned to do it, it just gets done when it does".
This felt terrible, honestly. I have had #ShirtMySurvivor on all of my content and streamed longer hours than normal for the final week of every month ever since the program was announced. I have streamed WITH COVID, so I didn't miss a chance that you'd stop by, and still...I haven't been shirted.
It felt exceptionally painful to see streamers that I didn't even know existed (10 followers, maybe) get shirted, and it just ....didn't make sense? I'm happy for those people, honestly. Obviously they did something that you found worthy of having their survivor shirted, and I'm happy for them, but....I don't know what else I can do to even put myself out there.
So, I am asking for my AMA question, is there any plan in the future to actually have someone be responsible for this program, because it may seem like nothing to most - just purple shirts - I hear that a lot, but it's not the cosmetic. It's what it symbolizes as someone that has worked so very hard on content for this game for so long, and it feels so defeating. Or when I see creators that are constantly rude to others, or trash this game / leave it the second something else pops up, but they've been shirted simply because they know somebody. It makes me question why I try so hard for a company that doesn't seem to care about me.
Anyways, I know this question will probably get buried, because it doesn't affect everyone, but for myself and other creators that have been trying for a long time, it's important to me that I ask it.
Thanks for taking the time to read this - RealSlowLoris
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CURRENT THOUGHTS
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That post was made over 7 months ago and I still have not been shirted. I am not saying this, so it seems that I'm trying to make anyone feel guilty, so I'll be shirted, etc. I just feel it's VERY important for the community team to see how bad it feels to attempt to get your survivor shirted with this program. It feels awful.
Like I said, to some this simply seems like it's just "purple shirts", a cosmetic, but…for those that are smaller and constantly create content for this game it's basically BHVR acknowledging that they see the "little guy" and in game it lets players know that we're not the normal "I have TTV in my name, but I never stream" sort of thing.
I now take part in more DBD community events, like Tofu Scrims and I'm working on hosting a 2v1 Charity event. I'd just like a way for more people to know that I'm an actual serious content creator for this game and a very wholesome place to be in. Instead I see so many creators that aren't welcoming to new players and they're shirted.
Sometimes I go months without seeing another person be shirted, then randomly I'll see people that post constant DBD rage bait on Twitter get shirted. It just feels absolutely terrible. When you feel the only way to finally get your survivor shirted is to either "know someone" or have a lot of viewers, even if you don't actually really "care" about the game, it just feels like…"why am I trying?"
Anywho, I think my post before my current thoughts said just about everything. I just really wanted to add this extra bit to make sure you guys understand…the worst part is the inconsistency. Feeling like I can't even take a day off when I need it, because I COULD MISS THAT ONE TIME you guys actually stop by. When I see people that are so negative get shirted, I just ask myself why do I even keep trying, if all of my actions mean nothing? It seems to all just be luck, or knowing someone. When I say, "knowing someone" I feel it's necessary to explain myself as well - I know at least 2 people that ….well they're definitely not shining examples in the community, I'd even go as far as saying…they're a negative influence / energy for newer players, but they do know people that work at BHVR, so they've been shirted. They have told me themselves.
Either way, I really hope there are plans to rework this program, because as of right now I've lost all hope in ever being shirted. No matter how many videos, memes or silly bits of content I make for the social media team, I just don't see it happening. The hours I've spent on feedback and bug reports don't seem to mean anything compared to having lots of viewers. I average about 40 now, and that is with me still on a schedule that doesn't work well for me, but is the only way I have a chance of running into the official Dead By Daylight account.
Please don't forget about smaller streamers, I promise you…some of us work VERY HARD.
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This map is the last of the 3 maps that I will BEG you to change the color on. When I load in, because of my poor eye sight I cannot see scratch marks at all. It's absolute misery.
I also love that you guys went for unique loops on this and Nostromo, but respectfully, you did such a POOR JOB of outlining what those loops are that nobody knows how to properly run them, so they just predrop or lithe to shack/main, because the loops are so weird.
I've said since the arrival of this map that if you made the actual looping STRUCTURES the same kind of like "alien stone" that you have on shack/the exit gate, then still had flora/fauna of an alien planet around/near those things, this map would be 100x better. I love the idea of the little ramps, etc...especially as a balance landing gamer, but...still the other loops make no sense 90% of the time, because it's not obvious what you're expecting people to do with them.
Main building is a nightmare for certain killers. Not because it's overly strong, but for killers like Wesker, you can't even use your power properly at it, you're just stopped.
Above all..please please please change the color scheme.
As others have said, way too much clutter, and the collision is suffering.
If you want to stop every survivor from feeling like they have to run Windows of Opportunity to not feel confused on maps like Nostromo/Toba, you've gotta fix the huge issue you have on those two maps and make the LOOPS more obvious with a different kind of material. Like I said, alien stone, with perhaps a slight blue glow on it for Toba, and Nostromo you could literally make it more pieces of ship wreckage for the majority of the loops, but have surrounding stuff be the stuff you're currently using.
Until you do something like that survivors will hate the maps and collision based killers will suffer.
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This is another one of the 3 maps in the game that I feel very strongly about the color scheme. As I mentioned on Borgo's thread, please change the colors. When I get on this map, because I am almost completely blind in my left eye, the lack of different colors makes everything appear with no depth perception for me. No matter survivor or killer, I accept a loss when I load in, because I know my chases will be horrible and I won't be able to track at all as killer.
I love the idea behind this map, and the Easter eggs are amazing, but please reconsider the colors.
As for the loops..this is one of the most RNG dependent maps in the game. It's a bit large, so you want to think survivor sided....but...the collision is atrocious for collision based killers and the RNG of loops is so crazy that it can basically be a death sentence for survivors or suffering for the killer.
Not to mention, because the lack of clear loop indicators, it's very hard to tell what you were creating with the "unique loops" that you created for some of the sudo jungle gyms, and almost always lead to player confusion on BOTH sides when approaching them, so quick downs or drawn out chases if the survivor is running windows.
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I feel very passionate about my opinion on the color of this map - please for the love of all that is holy - make it more like Dead Dawg's color scheme. I am almost completely blind in my left eye, and playing on this map is a nightmare. No matter what I do to it, even with nVidia filters...I just accept a loss when I load in, because I CANNOT see scratch marks on it.
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@xltechno said:
A well-balanced map. Even the M1 killer has room to compete, and the loop is relatively unbiased. However, if the survivors lack the awareness to complete the generator, they will quickly become overwhelmed.
I feel like I'm playing a different Fractured, because...I think the balancing while better than before is still REALLY bad, but it's also very RNG dependent. Sometimes I can get 5 very strong loops back to back, but then multiple dead zones that feel miserable. Overall if the survivors simply predrops on this map when the RNG is on their side, they will win.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
They did the exact same thing with trickster and Onyro. Welcome to the club Billy. Sigh.
They do such an amazing job, but they don’t finish the entire rework completely. That’s what’s frustrating. The last few little details doesn’t seem like much but it makes a big difference.
Yeah, I know a lot of Trickster players said that he no longer feels skillful whatsoever, and I completely understand that. It feels like most Tricksters I VS massively fail their daggers over and over, but he's so fast now that even through multiple Main Events, he'll M1, so it's a lose lose and doesn't require much effort on their part.
I'm guessing by your profile picture you're an Onryo gamer and I'm sorry that you're not happy with the reworks. It's unfortunate that she has such an interesting power, etc, but a small group of people find the biggest way to exploit her power, and share it so the majority make others miserable. I do hope they end up getting her in a place that you can enjoy her again.
I appreciate you leaving this feedback, because obviously Twitter was not happy with me. I just want Billy to be balanced well for the MAJORITY and he was in a good spot + felt skillful overall before the turn window increase. He was also still very strong against good survivors. The Billy from our scrim team 4k @ 3 gens versus very good survivors in Tofu scrims the other day before the turn window increase. Sure, the turn window can help against good survivors, but the average survivor will already struggle massively verse a decent Billy and probably doesn't understand crouch teching to save their life (even if I do not believe he should balanced around this at all). Not to mention, removing his skill floor entirely makes many downs feel cheap, and having an "insta down Blight" is just not healthy for the overall player base. While I can handle versing him like this, because I have a lot of experience verse Billy - like I said, he's been my favorite killer to play / verse - for years, the average survivor doesn't have even a 1/10th of that experience and it feels rather broken.
I want to clarify - Other than the turn window increase - Billy is in an almost perfect place, besides his very boring add-ons.
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I feel like I've shown you many examples of why this should be reverted, but I wanted to show you an example in regular game-play where it feels that I massively outplay Billy, but the curve window allows him to correct his mess up.
Before someone says "ping", I'm on 90 here, and that's not the point. The point is how he is able to 90, then 90 again to correct. No offense to this Billy, but he's clearly still learning and he's revving insanely early when he shouldn't be, but even though I outplay him this entire chase, he is rewarded by being able to correct insanely late within the curve window. Even if he didn't down me, he'd still a have eaten the pallet, so he's rewarded either way.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2070988082Again, I feel like I should clarify, you can clearly Crouch tech, etc versus Billy, but this new turn window rewards someone for not playing well. I also feel that Billy should not be balanced around Crouch tech in case it is ever magically fixed.
You've taken my favorite chase in the game and made it a Blight chase, not a Billy chase. I no longer feel out played, and it's sad, because I want to have fun chases verse Billy, but the only good way to verse him now is by being insanely boring now and Predrop/Crouch Tech/Fake play a tile & leave.
Please, revert the window change, and just work on improving the O/D non O/D sens. I cannot express how I went from being so excited to log on every day to practice new Billy to refusing to play him, because he no longer feels skillful at all and I don't even get excited to verse him now.
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Sorry for the double post, but it'd also be greatly appreciated from the Billy community if we could know - does unpinning the thread confirm you won't consider reverting/more tweaks within the next couple of weeks (before the next chapter release)?
As it stands, right now I don't even want to touch my favorite killer unless this change is reverted...so I'd just like to know if I should give up hope on a possible revision coming in a hot fix, etc. and perhaps just main someone else.
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@SlowLoris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649957#Comment_3649957
Do you mean make a new thread?
I have to be honest, this recent patch managed to take Billy from my all time favorite killer to play/verse to my my most disliked to vs and feels insanely unsatisfying to play.
Please, above all else, revert the change to the sensitivity window. It makes Billy feel ungodly boring to play. No down feels satisfying. No mind games are needed, I can simply outplay a jungle gym from the other side of it without the survivor having any idea.
My favorite part of Billy was how satisfying downs were, because they required very good play on your side to get. They also required the survivor misplay, but now no matter what they do, it will be a down if you're even a remotely decent Billy. Even with how strong you guys recently made him, it still required good mind games and proper zoning to curve, etc. I assume that the increased sensitivity period is to try and band-aid fix the changing sens between non-overdrive and overdrive, but this is a terrible fix and needs to be reverted.
I am genuinely considering no longer maining Billy, because I don't feel I am outplaying my opponent with skill, simply an insta down killer that can outplay almost any tile in the game with this change. You've taken away so much player agency when vsing him as well, it just feels terrible. I have always been so very excited to vs Billy, like I said, he's my favorite killer. I now feel frustration if I see they're even slightly good at him, because I know what I do does not matter, I will die.
BIG TAKEAWAYS, seriously, please listen to this......
- Revert the sensitivity window change - it deletes skill floor and ceiling for billy <-- THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT OUT OF EVERYTHING
- The base miss c/d change was not needed, you should have deleted one of his cool down add-ons instead of nerfing base-kit, because he felt very good base-kit without being broken.
- If you are DETERMINED to keep the nerf to his miss c/d, please do not remove the movement after bonking, it makes up for how sluggish he feels from "missing", because it is very common to zone survivors by "missing".
- Instead of a billion Overdrive add-ons, give us back some of the older addons as mentioned before - Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, etc. We are finally at a point where we aren't add-on reliant and you take away literally any interesting add-ons. Another good suggestion was making Cracked Primer Bulb permanent Overdrive, but still one health state.
- While the sensitivity between Overdrive and non-Overdrive is still an issue, most of us have managed to deal with it after a lot of practice this last couple of weeks. While it still needs to be ADDRESSED, because it makes using his power at smaller loops insanely hard, it is not worth destroying how enjoyable Billy normally is to play / vs to fix it. I think the vast majority of us that don't want free wins would keep the way sensitivity was last week over this change.
- You already managed to make Billy beginner accessible with the addition of Overdrive, it helps with a lot of things and can help carry a new Billy against newer survivors, you do NOT need an increased turn window for this.
- Killers with massive map mobility and an insta down ability should require a moderate amount of skill to do good with and you've removed that requirement with this change. Instead you've changed him to a VERY BORING insta-down killer.
- If you think people were upset about BIlly's miss c/d with double c/d or tmix/lopro, just wait till more people realize how broken/free you've made Billy with this change. They will pray for you to revert it, too.
- Last weeks version of Billy was SO close to perfect, but you went extremely heavy handed with this change and it's a mistake. If you listen to the stuff above, you will make Billy mains that like having Billy strong, but fair and SATISFYING to get downs with, VERY HAPPY. Survivors were already getting better at versing new Billy, but you are taking away them learning how to "loop" and "play tiles" by making it INSANELY UNSAFE no matter what. The ideal way to vs him now is to pretend to play the tile and leave, every single time. People main Billy for the chase and mind games, you've taken away any need for that and have basically told survivors, "if you want any chance of survival, stop interacting with Billy".
I can't stress enough how sad this update makes me. For years Billy has been my favorite, even when he was a struggle with Overheat, because nothing compared to how satisfying getting a well earned curve felt....then you took away all of that enjoyment with this change. I just don't know how to stress this anymore than, you ruined my favorite killer. I'm trying to be positive, but man...this took me from being excited to log on every day (for the first time in years, mind you...7.1k hours, and I haven't been so excited in such a long time), to me struggling to even make myself play Billy at all.
Below are some examples of clips that were shared with me during my stream, and some are me as well. This sens window change literally makes him uncounterable at certain loops and just overall so boring. I just can't say it more than that.
Tell me how a survivor would ever know this is coming or how to counter it? It requires no mind games, just having a rough idea where the person is. While this is definitely an impressive clip, it shows you just how ridiculous good BIllys will be with this and how bad it will be to vs them.
This clip is me at a Jungle gym and the Billy is wearing just one pair of boots in this clip. So, Overdrive + the new sens window allows him to not mind game at all and still down me here. I have so much distance on him, this should not be possible. He would have needed to go at least DOUBLE where he started that curve at before he could curve me previously, so i would have made the inside of the Jungle Gym, which is FAIR and leaves room for counter play. I feel like I need to get ahead of this and say - OVERDRIVE IS FINE, the mechanic is well balanced, nerfing it does not resolve the issue this change created, you just make him weaker without bringing back the reward of skill depth and ceiling - the sens period needs to be reverted and you bring back so much enjoyment.
https://fxtwitter.com/RealSlowLoris/status/1757902157750428101?s=20
This isn't the best clip, but I just haven't felt like playing him since this change. I think it's a good example of removing player agency on survivor side. This isn't the best tile, but Toba Landing collision is terrible, and I am able to start the curve MUCH earlier than I normally would and since the sens window is SO LONG NOW, Renato outplays me and doesn't go to vault the pallet, he goes WIDE, but I can see him and I change my course mid turn window. How is that fair to him? He outplayed me by not just camping/vaulting, and I'm now only able to start the curve early, but completely correct my mistake.
https://clips.twitch.tv/FunnyFreezingBaconHassanChop-U40kcHrQs5VOkOLB
This is another clip that was shared with me and in my opinion it is one of the hardest tiles in the game for Billy. There is a lot of player agency at this pallet normally, and if a survivor insta drops it I will normally immediately break it. However, you've made his turn window so long that I can just completely ignore this pallet....there should be strong loops against Billy like there were last week and I can attempt to outplay them and hope the survivor makes a mistake. I shouldn't be able to just completely disregard proper spacing / awareness.
Finally, one more example given to me. This survivor has good spacing and is playing well vs Billy at a pallet that is VERY STRONG vs him. However, it doesn't matter, because he's able to correct his curve SO LATE.
I don't know what else I can say, except...please...please revert this change. I miss playing him already, but I just do not find him enjoyable now. It's like you gave me a brand new toy after years of Billy being so ungodly weak, then after letting me play with it a little, you took it away, then gave me a replacement that I hate.
I appreciate you guys trying to continue improving him, but I beg you...please listen to those of us that have mained Billy for years and don't want him OP, just strong and fair. Read my previous feedback posts, I go GREATLY in depth - I spent hours writing things like this for you guys.
There are many other very skilled Billy mains that I talked into giving feedback in this thread previously. Pretty much every single one of them agree they hate this change and it has ruined their favorite character. They're biding their time trying to hit crazy clips, but praying it's reverted. I'd try to get them to submit more feedback, but after I got them to come give feedback before and none of it appears to have been listened to, except chainsaw volume, most of them don't want to waste their time, because they feel like you aren't listening to the consistent feedback that was given. I appreciate you guys trying to continue to improve Billy, but when you have a community of people that are giving you very precise and helpful feedback, constructively, it'd feel really nice to know that it's not going unheard, since this change feels like you guys did not listen to people that didn't just complain, etc.
I don't want to trouble them to do so, but I will say Lynn & Zain (the two in the picture below) are literally two of the best Billys. Zain literally mained Billy during pre-buffed Overheat until now BASE-KIT. He knows Billy inside and out, and Lynn is a non-meta add-on user as well.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FOTB9BH09ZNN/image.png
Lastly, a screen shot from a Discord of Billy mains. I hope they don't hate me for sharing this, but since I don't feel they will believe their feedback is listened to, they may not bring it to you, so I'm going to.
Most of the people in this Discord have either thousands of hours in Billy, or really enjoy killers that have a high skill ceiling / recently got back into Billy due to his rework. The response seems to be roughly the same amongst most of them. So, from semi-new (but high skill killer enjoyers) to extreme Billy Veteran, people agree this change is a mistake.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SMDFWPX8LGAX/image.png
Even the people that are saying keep the 1 second window during Overdrive are ONLY saying that, because they don't know if you have an idea on how to eventually fix the Overdrive sens, but the majority of us would rather it just be the way it was before if it can't be resolved in a way that doesn't ruin him (like the current change does).
Alright, I'm done talking your ear off, I just...man, I'm so sad about this. I feel so unsure if I'll ever be able to enjoy Billy again, because I don't know if you'll even consider reverting this. I'd legitimately take Overheat Billy before having this increased sensitivity window, because he feels so boring to play. I think that's kind of crazy, if you think about it. I'd rather play a very weak killer that massively struggles with DBD maps in 2024, than play the new shiny killer you gave us, because you increased the sensitivity window. It seems like a small change, but it truly ruins any sort of actual skill expression.
I hope you took time to read this, I realize it's a long one, but I felt I needed to do this in case others didn't feel they'd be listened to, so it'd be a waste of time.
I'm always available for back and forth if you'd like to talk Billy and the Billy mains that actually want a strong balanced killer would very much appreciate an open dialogue on if you'll consider reverting this change, etc.
Thanks for your time, Slow Loris
I feel like I've said almost everything I can within the posts I've put here, but I wanted to add some final thoughts, because I've realized what frustrates me most about these changes.
By increasing Billy's turn window, you've given him an "identity crisis". That sounds a little crazy, so let me explain. Before this change, Billy was and always has been a back and forth killer in chase that requires precision and mind games to achieve downs. The buffs you gave him (besides turn window increase) were very needed and much appreciated to bring him into 2024. However, the turn window increase changed how you play vs him and as him.
He is no longer a killer that requires precision / mind games, he is a killer that with barely any practice will achieve most things that GOOD Billy players could do pre-turn window buff and extremely skilled Billys will make him feel as if you are playing verse an insta-down Blight. This is what I mean about identity crisis. I no longer feel as if I'm playing against or AS Billy, I feel like I'm playing as or against Blight. If I had to compare it to something, it's a lot like Adrenaline Vial/Crow Blight (before the nerfs). Use 5 dashes and miss all of them, but you have 2 more + speed to correct your mistake and get a hit. Pretty much everyone hated versing that. With the turn window increase you've effectively removed Billy's skill floor, but gave him "2 more dashes" to correct with if a survivor out plays him, so they are forced to act as if they are versing Blight. This will stop survivors from actually playing tiles, because the most effective way to verse him is pretend to play the tile and disconnect or "crouch tech" him until he either M1s you or walks you down for a back rev.
I did not sign up to main Blight, I mained Billy through all of his suffering, because I enjoyed the satisfaction of being greatly rewarded for precision and mind games, but you've essentially turned him into Blight.
While I know many people that play on Controller are probably celebrating this change, because it makes him insanely easier to play, that's not an excuse for changing Billy's killer identity. This is a band-aid fix that 100% should have been tested on the upcoming PTB and definitely should not be accepted as okay, just so Billy is overall massively easier. I am not trying to gate-keep Billy, I am simply saying that Billy should require skill to do well with, because you have made him strong. Even if you nerfed the rest of his kit, but kept the increased turn window, you do not give him his identity back, because he STILL wouldn't require mind games/precision to get downs and would still be played the exact same way as Blight, but garbage.
I know MANY very skilled controller Billys that could do pretty much every single thing that PC gamers could do with practice, so being on a controller honestly is not an excuse for needing an increased window. While I know that Overdrive is probably much harder to handle on controller, it's not an excuse to completely change how Billy plays / interacts with survivors. This should 100% be addressed with an actual FIX and not a band-aid, so we can work on the sensitivity being more consistent between Overdrive / Non-Overdrive to help everyone, including controller players, but Billy should not lose what makes him BILLY, so another band-aid can be applied like the beamer buffer, because desync caused Flashlights to be almost useless for ages. MOST OF US were getting used to the changing sensitivity. Even if it was a bit frustrating at smaller loops, we were getting muscle memory for every other loop. I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but the vast majority of people I have spoke to would be fine with you going through trial and error to FIX the sensitivity between the two until you find something that works, instead of doing THIS.
I no longer enjoy versing Billy, because I don't feel I'm actually versing BILLY. I have advocated for Billy buffs for years and I fought IN THIS THREAD to stop you from nerfing him, because most of the complaints were people that just did not understand how to verse him, but the turn window is not balanced against the average survivor, and overall just makes him require very little skill while moving him into a top 3/4 killer by those that are medium skill with him. This change in a few weeks will take Billy from a beloved killer to one of the most hated killers and the people that enjoyed playing him, because of the interaction in chase will no longer enjoy playing him (myself included).
Below are some clips of Lynn, a very skilled Billy main with multiple types of add-ons, etc, showing how insane Billy is by increasing this turn window.
I'd also highly suggest reading her replies under it, because she explains why she feels how she does / why this is a bad idea. While people have berated me all weekend on Twitter for saying this, I'm going to repeat - yes, a lot of these could have been "Crouch Tech'd", but an unintended mechanic should NOT be a solution for balancing a killer and even if it was, it does not change that you have 100% changed Billy's game play and skill expression. I know there is probably no chance of you guys ever fixing "Crouch Tech" for Billy/Blight/Demo, but just in case you ever do, I do not want it to be taken into consideration, so he is considered "BALANCED".
1st time trying the new turn window and yep just stupidly broken. I dont have to mindgame tiles much, I can just go so deep into a loop and 180 so early and wide. Also, when I mess up my curve line, I am able to correct myself with the turn window buff. Why is ANY of this okay?Also, I don't know if you're familiar with "DeadlyNaya" on Twitch/Twitter.
She is a survivor main that has spent years advocating for Billy buffs and he has always been her favorite killer to verse. She also has a stream team on Twitch called "Overheated" with literally nothing but skilled Billy mains. She also used to host a podcast on her stream with multiple Billys from different play styles, Base-kit, Competitive, Curve (Doubles Billy), etc, so they could discuss Billy and where he was / what he needed to bring him into 2024, etc. This was HER POST on Twitter earlier about the Billy changes. I don't know how to say this any other way, but when Naya no longer enjoys versing Billy, when all she does is fight for him, perhaps this change shouldn't have happened. PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY that just wants Billy to be strong, but balanced and skillful.
In closing, once again, these are the most important things that should happen.
- Revert the turn window change. It makes him feel unskillful, removes survivor agency in chase due to how early you can curve, and overall is not a good band-aid fix for the sensitivity changing in Overdrive / out of Overdrive
- Either revert the movement slow down after "miss" & delete a cool down add-on, or keep it how it is, but it does feel pretty bad. C/D add-ons should NOT apply to LoPro pallet break.
- Revert the new bonk animation, it looks horrible and feels terrible.
- Make his add-ons not be useless - the only GOOD Overdrive add-on is Off Brand Motor Oil. We don't need a billion add-ons around Overdrive, he needs variety now that we are no longer tied to add-ons. Replace them with older add-ons like, Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, Pig House Gloves, etc. Another suggestion mentioned was making "Cracked Primer Bulb" one health state, but permanent Overdrive.
- Continue to work on consistent sensitivity between Overdrive/Non Overdrive - again, if you don't want to make Overdrive an ACTIVATION like Main Event, perhaps it's time to consider, especially for our console gamers something like a "power sensitivity" slider, so they can adjust things like Saw Sens/Oni Power during Demon Dash.
- Please never make a base-kit change like this again without a PTB. I don't know if there are people on the dev team that main/actively play Billy, but if there are, they should have known how absolutely nuts it would be to increase his sensitivity window.
I really hope that I haven't wasted hours upon hours writing feedback and fighting for Billy, so this thread can disappear into the ether, because it's "no longer pinned", but I can't say I'm feeling confident anymore.
Again, thank you for your time, Slow Loris