Please Revert The Hillbilly Sensitivity Window Increase - You have ruined my favorite killer
I wrote all of this feedback on the Hillbilly feedback thread, but I've realized now that unpinning that thread also for some reason no longer allows it to be "BUMPED" to the top with new replies.
Bellow I've quoted all of the important posts from that thread since the hot fix. However, the following link will take you directly to my post that I made last week right after this happened, so you can just read from then on / see the other posts.
Link to my original post right after the hot-fix increasing the sensitivity window : https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650264#Comment_3650264
(I didn't quote it, because it threw me over the character limit, but it will take you to just BEFORE all of these posts, and I HIGHLY suggest reading them.)
3 Smaller Posts that don't include Media, so I could just screen shot them:
@Lilikraken's post has a LOT of in depth break downs / clips that shouldn't be missed.
@Lilikraken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650264#Comment_3650264
@Peanits I know that you have unpinned the forum, but I really implore you to read the quoted post and give my post due diligence as well. This feedback is important, to a LOT of billy mains, people who have poured countless hours of our lives in dedication to this killer and enjoying him.
This has been the worst week I have ever experienced playing this killer, not because he was weak and miserable like he was during Overheat, which I loved and adored him throughout the entirety of. Not because he was strong in contrast to the skill levels of my opponents like he was during the days of Insta-saw and Crack billy, which I played religiously for the 3 years (about) of its existence.
After 14 thousand, and 4 hundred hours, we finally got the PERFECT billy, Overdrive was a perfect rework of Overheat that added an extra management and skill expression to the killer which made him feel rewarding to play. His values were adjusted and there was a lot to relearn about the killer, and he was in such a fantastic spot.
Then he was patched, you guys reworked him based on disingenuous feedback, from people who did not understand the actual problems the killer was facing, they were inexperienced, and they spoke from a place of ignorance.
The truth of the matter is the following things are ACTUALLY the problem:
REVERT the Curve timing change made in the patch, return the value from 1 second to .75. I will attach clips of things that are simply unfair that this killer is capable of achieving such levels of strength, and keep in mind, the answer is not NERFING anything, it is simply fixed by reverting the change he got.
Addons, there is no reason for the killer to have so many addons based around OD, especially when prior to these changes, he was JUST escaping an addon reliant existence he languished in for so long. Give us back Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, Mothers Helpers, let us have fun with the killer now that different addons are now actually viable!
The cd change is perfectly fine, if this is the direction you wish to take, to address cd stacking and the problems of cd reduction, I respect it, I do not however think it was NECESSARY to nerf base cd when you could've just taken Greased Throttle and used it to do what I previously mentioned about addons. and for the love of all that is holy, rework Lopro so that it counts as its OWN cd, instead of a "saw cd" so that it doesn't interact with cd addons anymore. This will make the addon suitably strong and give his zoning potential a much-needed hit, instead of overall gutting his cd.
Now for the clips!
The first will be a clip explaining in depth, how in a situation on one of the strongest tiles in the game, a good billy, a billy MAIN, explains in detail how there is no SAFE decision she can make, that doesn't result in her down:
Then Ill include several other curves that should not be possible, or if possible, only with a PERFECT curve, and not with the degree of skillessness I did in these clips:
PLEASE consider listening to this feedback BHVR, this killer is not rewarding anymore, they have become unfun to play, and they are literally so strong and free right now, that its BAFFLING that more people arent complaining, you were SO CLOSE to perfect. We were RIGHT THERE, and you let it slip...
My final post after giving this change the entire week, I do hope you take the time to read it and view the media I shared:
@SlowLoris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650264#Comment_3650264
I feel like I've said almost everything I can within the posts I've put here, but I wanted to add some final thoughts, because I've realized what frustrates me most about these changes.
By increasing Billy's turn window, you've given him an "identity crisis". That sounds a little crazy, so let me explain. Before this change, Billy was and always has been a back and forth killer in chase that requires precision and mind games to achieve downs. The buffs you gave him (besides turn window increase) were very needed and much appreciated to bring him into 2024. However, the turn window increase changed how you play vs him and as him.
He is no longer a killer that requires precision / mind games, he is a killer that with barely any practice will achieve most things that GOOD Billy players could do pre-turn window buff and extremely skilled Billys will make him feel as if you are playing verse an insta-down Blight. This is what I mean about identity crisis. I no longer feel as if I'm playing against or AS Billy, I feel like I'm playing as or against Blight. If I had to compare it to something, it's a lot like Adrenaline Vial/Crow Blight (before the nerfs). Use 5 dashes and miss all of them, but you have 2 more + speed to correct your mistake and get a hit. Pretty much everyone hated versing that. With the turn window increase you've effectively removed Billy's skill floor, but gave him "2 more dashes" to correct with if a survivor out plays him, so they are forced to act as if they are versing Blight. This will stop survivors from actually playing tiles, because the most effective way to verse him is pretend to play the tile and disconnect or "crouch tech" him until he either M1s you or walks you down for a back rev.
I did not sign up to main Blight, I mained Billy through all of his suffering, because I enjoyed the satisfaction of being greatly rewarded for precision and mind games, but you've essentially turned him into Blight.
While I know many people that play on Controller are probably celebrating this change, because it makes him insanely easier to play, that's not an excuse for changing Billy's killer identity. This is a band-aid fix that 100% should have been tested on the upcoming PTB and definitely should not be accepted as okay, just so Billy is overall massively easier. I am not trying to gate-keep Billy, I am simply saying that Billy should require skill to do well with, because you have made him strong. Even if you nerfed the rest of his kit, but kept the increased turn window, you do not give him his identity back, because he STILL wouldn't require mind games/precision to get downs and would still be played the exact same way as Blight, but garbage.
I know MANY very skilled controller Billys that could do pretty much every single thing that PC gamers could do with practice, so being on a controller honestly is not an excuse for needing an increased window. While I know that Overdrive is probably much harder to handle on controller, it's not an excuse to completely change how Billy plays / interacts with survivors. This should 100% be addressed with an actual FIX and not a band-aid, so we can work on the sensitivity being more consistent between Overdrive / Non-Overdrive to help everyone, including controller players, but Billy should not lose what makes him BILLY, so another band-aid can be applied like the beamer buffer, because desync caused Flashlights to be almost useless for ages. MOST OF US were getting used to the changing sensitivity. Even if it was a bit frustrating at smaller loops, we were getting muscle memory for every other loop. I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but the vast majority of people I have spoke to would be fine with you going through trial and error to FIX the sensitivity between the two until you find something that works, instead of doing THIS.
I no longer enjoy versing Billy, because I don't feel I'm actually versing BILLY. I have advocated for Billy buffs for years and I fought IN THIS THREAD to stop you from nerfing him, because most of the complaints were people that just did not understand how to verse him, but the turn window is not balanced against the average survivor, and overall just makes him require very little skill while moving him into a top 3/4 killer by those that are medium skill with him. This change in a few weeks will take Billy from a beloved killer to one of the most hated killers and the people that enjoyed playing him, because of the interaction in chase will no longer enjoy playing him (myself included).
Below are some clips of Lynn, a very skilled Billy main with multiple types of add-ons, etc, showing how insane Billy is by increasing this turn window.
I'd also highly suggest reading her replies under it, because she explains why she feels how she does / why this is a bad idea. While people have berated me all weekend on Twitter for saying this, I'm going to repeat - yes, a lot of these could have been "Crouch Tech'd", but an unintended mechanic should NOT be a solution for balancing a killer and even if it was, it does not change that you have 100% changed Billy's game play and skill expression. I know there is probably no chance of you guys ever fixing "Crouch Tech" for Billy/Blight/Demo, but just in case you ever do, I do not want it to be taken into consideration, so he is considered "BALANCED".
https://fxtwitter.com/lynnziezie/status/1759423507312554246?s=20
Also, I don't know if you're familiar with "DeadlyNaya" on Twitch/Twitter.
She is a survivor main that has spent years advocating for Billy buffs and he has always been her favorite killer to verse. She also has a stream team on Twitch called "Overheated" with literally nothing but skilled Billy mains. She also used to host a podcast on her stream with multiple Billys from different play styles, Base-kit, Competitive, Curve (Doubles Billy), etc, so they could discuss Billy and where he was / what he needed to bring him into 2024, etc. This was HER POST on Twitter earlier about the Billy changes. I don't know how to say this any other way, but when Naya no longer enjoys versing Billy, when all she does is fight for him, perhaps this change shouldn't have happened. PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY that just wants Billy to be strong, but balanced and skillful.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AGG8E7X29677/naya.png
In closing, once again, these are the most important things that should happen.
- Revert the turn window change. It makes him feel unskillful, removes survivor agency in chase due to how early you can curve, and overall is not a good band-aid fix for the sensitivity changing in Overdrive / out of Overdrive
- Either revert the movement slow down after "miss" & delete a cool down add-on, or keep it how it is, but it does feel pretty bad. C/D add-ons should NOT apply to LoPro pallet break.
- Revert the new bonk animation, it looks horrible and feels terrible.
- Make his add-ons not be useless - the only GOOD Overdrive add-on is Off Brand Motor Oil. We don't need a billion add-ons around Overdrive, he needs variety now that we are no longer tied to add-ons. Replace them with older add-ons like, Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, Pig House Gloves, etc. Another suggestion mentioned was making "Cracked Primer Bulb" one health state, but permanent Overdrive.
- Continue to work on consistent sensitivity between Overdrive/Non Overdrive - again, if you don't want to make Overdrive an ACTIVATION like Main Event, perhaps it's time to consider, especially for our console gamers something like a "power sensitivity" slider, so they can adjust things like Saw Sens/Oni Power during Demon Dash.
- Please never make a base-kit change like this again without a PTB. I don't know if there are people on the dev team that main/actively play Billy, but if there are, they should have known how absolutely nuts it would be to increase his sensitivity window.
I really hope that I haven't wasted hours upon hours writing feedback and fighting for Billy, so this thread can disappear into the ether, because it's "no longer pinned", but I can't say I'm feeling confident anymore.
Again, thank you for your time, Slow Loris
Perhaps in the future unpinned threads should still be bumpable, because we had no idea that all of the time and effort we put into giving you helpful feedback was mostly being wasted since those threads did not get bumped to the top of the feedback forum.
I just don't know how a change that like this was tossed in as a blanket hotfix, then the thread was unpinned, because you have pretty much destroyed my favorite killer with this change. It may seem like a very SMALL change, but it's not and going forward I implore you to please test things like this on a PTB, because right now I feel like the killer I've mained for years is no longer for me and it makes me so very sad.
Thanks for your time, Slow Loris
Comments
Sorry for the double post, but it'd also be greatly appreciated from the Billy community if we could know - does unpinning the thread confirm you won't consider reverting/more tweaks within the next couple of weeks (before the next chapter release)?
As it stands, right now I don't even want to touch my favorite killer unless this change is reverted...so I'd just like to know if I should give up hope on a possible revision coming in a hot fix, etc. and perhaps just main someone else.
I feel like I've shown you many examples of why this should be reverted, but I wanted to show you an example in regular game-play where it feels that I massively outplay Billy, but the curve window allows him to correct his mess up.
Before someone says "ping", I'm on 90 here, and that's not the point. The point is how he is able to 90, then 90 again to correct. No offense to this Billy, but he's clearly still learning and he's revving insanely early when he shouldn't be, but even though I outplay him this entire chase, he is rewarded by being able to correct insanely late within the curve window. Even if he didn't down me, he'd still a have eaten the pallet, so he's rewarded either way.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2070988082Again, I feel like I should clarify, you can clearly Crouch tech, etc versus Billy, but this new turn window rewards someone for not playing well. I also feel that Billy should not be balanced around Crouch tech in case it is ever magically fixed.
You've taken my favorite chase in the game and made it a Blight chase, not a Billy chase. I no longer feel out played, and it's sad, because I want to have fun chases verse Billy, but the only good way to verse him now is by being insanely boring now and Predrop/Crouch Tech/Fake play a tile & leave.
Please, revert the window change, and just work on improving the O/D non O/D sens. I cannot express how I went from being so excited to log on every day to practice new Billy to refusing to play him, because he no longer feels skillful at all and I don't even get excited to verse him now.
They did the exact same thing with trickster and Onyro. Welcome to the club Billy. Sigh.
They do such an amazing job, but they don’t finish the entire rework completely. That’s what’s frustrating. The last few little details doesn’t seem like much but it makes a big difference.
Yeah, I know a lot of Trickster players said that he no longer feels skillful whatsoever, and I completely understand that. It feels like most Tricksters I VS massively fail their daggers over and over, but he's so fast now that even through multiple Main Events, he'll M1, so it's a lose lose and doesn't require much effort on their part.
I'm guessing by your profile picture you're an Onryo gamer and I'm sorry that you're not happy with the reworks. It's unfortunate that she has such an interesting power, etc, but a small group of people find the biggest way to exploit her power, and share it so the majority make others miserable. I do hope they end up getting her in a place that you can enjoy her again.
I appreciate you leaving this feedback, because obviously Twitter was not happy with me. I just want Billy to be balanced well for the MAJORITY and he was in a good spot + felt skillful overall before the turn window increase. He was also still very strong against good survivors. The Billy from our scrim team 4k @ 3 gens versus very good survivors in Tofu scrims the other day before the turn window increase. Sure, the turn window can help against good survivors, but the average survivor will already struggle massively verse a decent Billy and probably doesn't understand crouch teching to save their life (even if I do not believe he should balanced around this at all). Not to mention, removing his skill floor entirely makes many downs feel cheap, and having an "insta down Blight" is just not healthy for the overall player base. While I can handle versing him like this, because I have a lot of experience verse Billy - like I said, he's been my favorite killer to play / verse - for years, the average survivor doesn't have even a 1/10th of that experience and it feels rather broken.
I want to clarify - Other than the turn window increase - Billy is in an almost perfect place, besides his very boring add-ons.
I really appreciate your comment, and thank you so so much for writing me, and taking the time to write further feedback on this topic, you’re very very passionate about it from what I can see and I appreciate your detail. :)
It feels good to be recognized, and I appreciate that! You would be correct I am an Onyro main. While I still enjoy her, I would love for her to be back the way she used to be. We didn’t need all these changes in different reworks. The original Sadako perfect in design. She just needed some tuning and buffs, quality of life.
Reading this post actually helps me figure out how to counter bill a little bit more. 🤣🤣 so thank you very much for that, I usually panic and start running towards the nearest tile or pallet because I’m scared he’s going to run me over. 🤣🤣🤣