SlowLoris
SlowLoris
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@[Deleted User] said:
Thread is unpinned. Billy is gonna stay as is for a while now (just like Trickster)
I really hope not. I don't think I'll be playing him until this is reverted. If it's not reverted, I guess I no longer get to play my favorite killer.
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@Peanits said:
Thank you for the feedback everyone! We'll be unpinning this thread now, but please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts in this section of the forums.
Do you mean make a new thread?
I have to be honest, this recent patch managed to take Billy from my all time favorite killer to play/verse to my my most disliked to vs and feels insanely unsatisfying to play.
Please, above all else, revert the change to the sensitivity window. It makes Billy feel ungodly boring to play. No down feels satisfying. No mind games are needed, I can simply outplay a jungle gym from the other side of it without the survivor having any idea.
My favorite part of Billy was how satisfying downs were, because they required very good play on your side to get. They also required the survivor misplay, but now no matter what they do, it will be a down if you're even a remotely decent Billy. Even with how strong you guys recently made him, it still required good mind games and proper zoning to curve, etc. I assume that the increased sensitivity period is to try and band-aid fix the changing sens between non-overdrive and overdrive, but this is a terrible fix and needs to be reverted.
I am genuinely considering no longer maining Billy, because I don't feel I am outplaying my opponent with skill, simply an insta down killer that can outplay almost any tile in the game with this change. You've taken away so much player agency when vsing him as well, it just feels terrible. I have always been so very excited to vs Billy, like I said, he's my favorite killer. I now feel frustration if I see they're even slightly good at him, because I know what I do does not matter, I will die.
BIG TAKEAWAYS, seriously, please listen to this......
- Revert the sensitivity window change - it deletes skill floor and ceiling for billy <-- THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT OUT OF EVERYTHING
- The base miss c/d change was not needed, you should have deleted one of his cool down add-ons instead of nerfing base-kit, because he felt very good base-kit without being broken.
- If you are DETERMINED to keep the nerf to his miss c/d, please do not remove the movement after bonking, it makes up for how sluggish he feels from "missing", because it is very common to zone survivors by "missing".
- Instead of a billion Overdrive add-ons, give us back some of the older addons as mentioned before - Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, etc. We are finally at a point where we aren't add-on reliant and you take away literally any interesting add-ons. Another good suggestion was making Cracked Primer Bulb permanent Overdrive, but still one health state.
- While the sensitivity between Overdrive and non-Overdrive is still an issue, most of us have managed to deal with it after a lot of practice this last couple of weeks. While it still needs to be ADDRESSED, because it makes using his power at smaller loops insanely hard, it is not worth destroying how enjoyable Billy normally is to play / vs to fix it. I think the vast majority of us that don't want free wins would keep the way sensitivity was last week over this change.
- You already managed to make Billy beginner accessible with the addition of Overdrive, it helps with a lot of things and can help carry a new Billy against newer survivors, you do NOT need an increased turn window for this.
- Killers with massive map mobility and an insta down ability should require a moderate amount of skill to do good with and you've removed that requirement with this change. Instead you've changed him to a VERY BORING insta-down killer.
- If you think people were upset about BIlly's miss c/d with double c/d or tmix/lopro, just wait till more people realize how broken/free you've made Billy with this change. They will pray for you to revert it, too.
- Last weeks version of Billy was SO close to perfect, but you went extremely heavy handed with this change and it's a mistake. If you listen to the stuff above, you will make Billy mains that like having Billy strong, but fair and SATISFYING to get downs with, VERY HAPPY. Survivors were already getting better at versing new Billy, but you are taking away them learning how to "loop" and "play tiles" by making it INSANELY UNSAFE no matter what. The ideal way to vs him now is to pretend to play the tile and leave, every single time. People main Billy for the chase and mind games, you've taken away any need for that and have basically told survivors, "if you want any chance of survival, stop interacting with Billy".
I can't stress enough how sad this update makes me. For years Billy has been my favorite, even when he was a struggle with Overheat, because nothing compared to how satisfying getting a well earned curve felt....then you took away all of that enjoyment with this change. I just don't know how to stress this anymore than, you ruined my favorite killer. I'm trying to be positive, but man...this took me from being excited to log on every day (for the first time in years, mind you...7.1k hours, and I haven't been so excited in such a long time), to me struggling to even make myself play Billy at all.
Below are some examples of clips that were shared with me during my stream, and some are me as well. This sens window change literally makes him uncounterable at certain loops and just overall so boring. I just can't say it more than that.
Tell me how a survivor would ever know this is coming or how to counter it? It requires no mind games, just having a rough idea where the person is. While this is definitely an impressive clip, it shows you just how ridiculous good BIllys will be with this and how bad it will be to vs them.
Watch "Ridiculous Sensitivity Window" on Streamable.This clip is me at a Jungle gym and the Billy is wearing just one pair of boots in this clip. So, Overdrive + the new sens window allows him to not mind game at all and still down me here. I have so much distance on him, this should not be possible. He would have needed to go at least DOUBLE where he started that curve at before he could curve me previously, so i would have made the inside of the Jungle Gym, which is FAIR and leaves room for counter play. I feel like I need to get ahead of this and say - OVERDRIVE IS FINE, the mechanic is well balanced, nerfing it does not resolve the issue this change created, you just make him weaker without bringing back the reward of skill depth and ceiling - the sens period needs to be reverted and you bring back so much enjoyment.
Like I said, I love Billy, he's my favorite killer to play and vs, but this is such a bad band-aid fix for inconsistent sensitivity. His base c/d was fine, it didn't need nerfed. One of his c/d add-ons deleted, and rework all of his useless add-ons to old pre-rework addons.This isn't the best clip, but I just haven't felt like playing him since this change. I think it's a good example of removing player agency on survivor side. This isn't the best tile, but Toba Landing collision is terrible, and I am able to start the curve MUCH earlier than I normally would and since the sens window is SO LONG NOW, Renato outplays me and doesn't go to vault the pallet, he goes WIDE, but I can see him and I change my course mid turn window. How is that fair to him? He outplayed me by not just camping/vaulting, and I'm now only able to start the curve early, but completely correct my mistake.
https://clips.twitch.tv/FunnyFreezingBaconHassanChop-U40kcHrQs5VOkOLBThis is another clip that was shared with me and in my opinion it is one of the hardest tiles in the game for Billy. There is a lot of player agency at this pallet normally, and if a survivor insta drops it I will normally immediately break it. However, you've made his turn window so long that I can just completely ignore this pallet....there should be strong loops against Billy like there were last week and I can attempt to outplay them and hope the survivor makes a mistake. I shouldn't be able to just completely disregard proper spacing / awareness.
Watch "Sens Window" on Streamable.Finally, one more example given to me. This survivor has good spacing and is playing well vs Billy at a pallet that is VERY STRONG vs him. However, it doesn't matter, because he's able to correct his curve SO LATE.
Watch "Sens Window "I" Filler" on Streamable.I don't know what else I can say, except...please...please revert this change. I miss playing him already, but I just do not find him enjoyable now. It's like you gave me a brand new toy after years of Billy being so ungodly weak, then after letting me play with it a little, you took it away, then gave me a replacement that I hate.
I appreciate you guys trying to continue improving him, but I beg you...please listen to those of us that have mained Billy for years and don't want him OP, just strong and fair. Read my previous feedback posts, I go GREATLY in depth - I spent hours writing things like this for you guys.
There are many other very skilled Billy mains that I talked into giving feedback in this thread previously. Pretty much every single one of them agree they hate this change and it has ruined their favorite character. They're biding their time trying to hit crazy clips, but praying it's reverted. I'd try to get them to submit more feedback, but after I got them to come give feedback before and none of it appears to have been listened to, except chainsaw volume, most of them don't want to waste their time, because they feel like you aren't listening to the consistent feedback that was given. I appreciate you guys trying to continue to improve Billy, but when you have a community of people that are giving you very precise and helpful feedback, constructively, it'd feel really nice to know that it's not going unheard, since this change feels like you guys did not listen to people that didn't just complain, etc.
I don't want to trouble them to do so, but I will say Lynn & Zain (the two in the picture below) are literally two of the best Billys. Zain literally mained Billy during pre-buffed Overheat until now BASE-KIT. He knows Billy inside and out, and Lynn is a non-meta add-on user as well.
Lastly, a screen shot from a Discord of Billy mains. I hope they don't hate me for sharing this, but since I don't feel they will believe their feedback is listened to, they may not bring it to you, so I'm going to.
Most of the people in this Discord have either thousands of hours in Billy, or really enjoy killers that have a high skill ceiling / recently got back into Billy due to his rework. The response seems to be roughly the same amongst most of them. So, from semi-new (but high skill killer enjoyers) to extreme Billy Veteran, people agree this change is a mistake.
Even the people that are saying keep the 1 second window during Overdrive are ONLY saying that, because they don't know if you have an idea on how to eventually fix the Overdrive sens, but the majority of us would rather it just be the way it was before if it can't be resolved in a way that doesn't ruin him (like the current change does).
Alright, I'm done talking your ear off, I just...man, I'm so sad about this. I feel so unsure if I'll ever be able to enjoy Billy again, because I don't know if you'll even consider reverting this. I'd legitimately take Overheat Billy before having this increased sensitivity window, because he feels so boring to play. I think that's kind of crazy, if you think about it. I'd rather play a very weak killer that massively struggles with DBD maps in 2024, than play the new shiny killer you gave us, because you increased the sensitivity window. It seems like a small change, but it truly ruins any sort of actual skill expression.
I hope you took time to read this, I realize it's a long one, but I felt I needed to do this in case others didn't feel they'd be listened to, so it'd be a waste of time.
I'm always available for back and forth if you'd like to talk Billy and the Billy mains that actually want a strong balanced killer would very much appreciate an open dialogue on if you'll consider reverting this change, etc.
Thanks for your time, Slow Loris
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@RomeroJane said:
I think he's in a really good spot as base-kit, but his add-ons are really problematic:
- Cooldown add-ons have to go: not reduced numbers, not reduced conditions, they just have to go. Greased Throttle and Thompson Mix need changes.
- Turning rate add-ons have to be looked at: The turning offered by the combo is too much and allows to correct the trajectory mid-run too easily. Overdrive chainsaws are already hard to dodge if not with a predict, but turning add-ons make that close to impossible. Turning add-ons also allow weird interactions like going around a full Haddonfield building without ever stopping. This kind of interaction makes building up Overdrive too easy with no efforts.
- Lopro Chains have to still be a thing? I would suggest making these work only in normal saw and not in Overdrive. Overdrive is good enough by itself to counter a loop. His base-kit is solid enough now that extra-help feels unnecessary.
While the Turning rate should just be looked at for potential problems, cooldown add-ons are definitely problematic.
I partially agree with your first point, but not the rest.
The way Tmix interacts with LoPro is a huge issue, but this is because the way LoPro activates was changed this patch, and the extra c/d reduction happening with it is making it miserable. Tmix+C/D addons should NOT apply to LoPro, but they do. The same goes for, those c/d add-ons are applying to Overdrive right now and they should not be per the descriptions.
Turning rate (boots) add-ons have ALWAYS let you zoom around Haddonfield, or Ormond, etc...the thing is, before Overdrive, any build around "Drift Billy" was useless. You'd be lucky to get 3 hooks with those kind of builds, including Stealth Billy, because he was SO SLOW. Now Drift Billy isn't insanely strong, but it's actually a viable play style for more than 3 hooks on very unaware survivors. Drift Billy truly is the chillest form of Billy, because they aren't using LoPro, Engraving, or Recovery to help in chase, they're relying on sniping downs and praying that Overdrive procs at the right time to be able to catch a survivor off guard. Not to mention, if you aren't running Apex/Boots, it's ridiculously hard to catch survivors off guard with standard Drift Billy, which is why these add-ons are balanced when combined. To put in perspective how chill most people are with those add-ons, my friend WhiteNoiseDesign often does steering wheel Billy with those add-ons (pre-billy buff), because it was fun to "cruise". Nobody runs them together to try hard.
If someone is using double boots for curving, they're just kind of hurting themselves. The initial sens period will always be MUCH more turn rate than anything boots will do, so they should learn how to do that.
When it comes to Lo Pro, I think it's fine when not combined with Tmix. It's freeing to not feel like I permanently have to run Brutal Strength - It literally has not left my perks for the last 2 years. It's nice to feel like I can mix it up and run LoPro if I want and still run "double engravings", or something else, because I've always enjoyed Doubles Billy more and never got to run LoPro if I wanted to do that, but now I can.
LoPro is very strong, but it only feels ridiculously strong right now, because of Tmix being combined with it. I don't know how different it is in different regions, but every single match I play as Billy (been this way for years) 3/4 survivors minimum pre-drop pallets constantly. If it's not a curvable tile / they shift w to each new pallet to pre-drop..I either have to permanently give up a slot for Brutal again, or run LoPro. LoPro really does have a lot of counter play, but most people are just not good at doing it , yet and I can 100% agree it feels terrible to outplay LoPro right now and with Tmix, they just turn around and either M1 or back rev you.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641673#Comment_3641673
But A. How would we now already know that that is the case? All we have is different people from different skill brackets with more or less of an idea what to do against Billy, I don't see a reason yet to think there is an issue to begin with. What do you mean by a similar result here? There are big differences between a 4k and a 4k,if you are only looking at the result you are missing the important part of how we got there.
And B. Even if that was the case why exactly would it be an issue? We have skill based matchmaking... If you have never touched Billy before your MMR is somewhat in the middle if you have played other killers to a higher mmr (as far as I am aware, correct me if I am wrong here) so just because you as a beginner are able to 4k against mid survivors does not mean this is the same result as for example Hens who does the same thing... Just because you got the same result does not mean anything.
Other than that I don't really get your point about perks and addons here, because what you are describing is basically what they are for... Game delay perks are for you to have more time to get a down... Addons usually improve your power to either give you hits where you would not get them with basekit or enable different strategies to be viable.
As for the next example of Billy will catch up and you cannot get away... Yes that is generally a thing with high mobility killers... However the point is you don't need to leave the loop... You can still loop it... If the Billy is trying to curve you there you can still outplay him by going wide or going close, it just that you have a higher density of chase interaction, if you like it or not is something else, but I don't think that's a bad thing... The same thing applies to other killers, Nemesis, Alien, Deaths linger and so on... All killers with an anti loop power with a rather short cooldown, often times you won't be able to leave the loop unless they had to break the pallet or one is really close by, however you can still use the current loop until they are forced to break the pallet...
I mean monitoring something is not necessarily a bad thing... However if this is an issue that is worth being monitored that closely then so are many other things... And I don't think the system is supposed to address such a wide range of things ^^
You mention something here as well that I think a lot of newer players aren't used to, because the massive amount of anti-loop that has been added. YOU CAN LOOP THE TILE!
Sometimes leaving is the best decision, but a lot of the time, not insta dropping the pallet and leaving is best against Billy. You can keep him very busy at strong tiles by being unpredictable at them. Don't always run the same way through a jungle gym, sometimes run inside or out.
His curving massively relies on predictability, but if you constantly leave tiles after you drop the pallet? That's predictable. He will use his chainsaw to catch up and down you in the open, but EVEN THAT is still dependent on how you react and if Overdrive procs, because both of those things can change how easy it is to simply back rev you.
Rapid unpredictable sways if they're in Overdrive can be hard to deal with, or simply just doing something that makes zero sense will often catch them off guard.
Billy truly has the most player agency in the game, you just don't know it, yet.
@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638282#Comment_3638282
He still has to charge his saw though unlike every other killer. Alien for example could just tail you again, but billy has to spend time charging his saw again, he cant just insta saw you after a miss.
I've said multiple times already how the issue with Billy right now is people don't understand how to vs him, yet and also LoPro/Tmix - Double Stack recovery is over tuned.
However, this is another part of it. People are forgetting that just because he misses, it doesn't mean he can insta saw you, he still has a few seconds before that is even possible. You have time to change the outcome of the chase, or drop a pallet.
Not always, obviously, but good Billys are already very good at zoning survivors, because they had to be before he was buffed, or they'd never get downs.
You can also visually see Billy revving his saw, unlike Xeno with zero feedback of if they will M1 or M2 (I still hate this, but this isn't a Xeno feedback thread).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640402#Comment_3640402
I wasn't interested in your DM because I have no intention of going on discord. I only mentioned a DM in the first place to see why you were getting so angry with me and didn't want to annoy the mods.
Where did I ask you to supply me with data? I don't recall asking you for data once. Point me to where I did. If you got that intention I do apologize.
As for me questioning you. Look at my very first message to you.
You - "Right now they are DC'ing against him, Great job guys."
Me - "I was playing a lot of Billy last night. Didn't have one DC."
Where is the question? It was a statement..
This is turning into some strange back and forth where you seem* (*maybe you aren't but it's coming off that way) to be getting quite aggressive with me over something so benign. If I knew it would get this type of reaction I wouldn't have bothered to reply to you. I really don't like it an it makes me not want to be here.
Emeal is famous for this. Literally, this is pretty much how they always respond to everything.
@Emeal said:
Dear bHVR, Do NOT forget to look at other people are saying are saying about the hardships about the Billy update.
Don't just look at what Hillbilly mains say and what they want, this game is for all of us, its us who are forced to play this game against Hillbillys so it needs to be at least manageable. I saw on twitter, a lot of people are coming in here to drown out others personal experience by telling them theirs. Please remember that does not make the first person's experience invalid.
Just saying, "Oh you just have a skill issue" is just toxic and it does not make meaningful counterplay magically appear for that person. Come on guys PLEASE, We ought to be better than this.
I'm both. I'm a survivor and killer main. I'm giving a balanced take on the issues with Billy, so if you want someone that is being unbiased and telling you how it is, I'm right here. There is a good chance you saw my post on Twitter, and if so, I was not telling Billy mains to tell everyone how wrong they are, I was telling them to not sit back and make sure to give their feedback, so it's not just people who are new to versing Billy giving their opinions on the matter.
For example, the person in this thread saying that they want Billy to only use saw for mobility and m1 them at tiles. That's just silly and not how Billy has ever been designed. The only reason people saw that was because of how hard Billy was to pick up in general and some people needed to do challenges/achievements, so that's how they played him. People are giving up verse Billy, because they do not understand his counter play, yet and are treating him like every other killer they verse, so they're getting destroyed. People need time to adjust to new Billy (with the tweaks I've mentioned), and they will see that the chase is completely dependent on their mistakes. New Billy has just been given the tools to actually capitalize on the mistakes even with how stacked new maps are. However, his add-ons should be tweaked, so that when a survivor outplays them, they are punished for it.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640683#Comment_3640683
Then that was not a good Billy dude... Good Billy players have always mainly used to chainsaw, as this is his chase ability. This is nothing new... Curve Billy has always been a thing and being mad about a killer using his ability to get a down seems a bit off... I don't know what to tell you. Billy was in the bottom third of killers before that buff and has always been a fun and interactive killer, I don't know what you mean by people didn't want him to get buffed? Basically everyone was annoyed by the rework from the beginning and it still took them so long to change it again.
Unlike other killers Billy's curving tends to always give you an option, Go wide or go close when he is trying to curve and your decision really matters. There aren't that many killers about which you can say this these days. Billy is just great design and it is good to see that the hardest killer in the game is finally worth the effort again.
Just to make this clear... Are you really assuming that even good players barely used his chainsaw before the rework? Because that is just not true and you might want to look at some older videos/streams of for example Hens or Gtvel, because as I already said, they mainly use the chainsaw. Sorry to bring it to you, but that has always been the case. Billy has always been constantly use chainsaw for everything, which overheat restricted and Bubba was the less chainsaw intensive killer. That is just the way it is, was and always has been.
I really want to emphasize something Archol says here, "Unlike other killers Billy's curving tends to always give you an option, Go wide or go close when he is trying to curve and your decision really matters. There aren't many killers about which you can say this these days. Billy is just great design and it is good to see that the hardest killer in the game is finally worth the effort again."
This is the exact reason Billy is and has been my FAVORITE killer to verse for years. You are downed, because of your own mistakes. There is always player agency in every chase. You are able to completely change the outcome by playing well. Even a curve that seems almost GUARANTEED, can be deleted from you being unpredictable. There are not many killers in the game that you can say the choice of how the chase goes is almost completely up to you, but you can with Billy. There is not some passive mechanic like Wesker Hinder, etc that can change the chase. It is purely based on if Billy or the survivor plays better. Unfortunately, pre-buff Billy could not always take advantage of a survivor mistake, because over the years maps have become much more stacked, so people didn't have to learn how to verse him. This update simply brought him to 2024, so he's playable again.
Based on the ridiculous amount of people that I see hop locker when not trying to force a bonk from Billy, but simply wait out his chainsaw, I think a lot of people just think Billy is FAST BUBBA and it couldn't be further from the truth. There is so much room to punish Billy, and you will see that if you learn his counter play.
I feel like I have to state this in every post - BASE-KIT BILLY IS NOT OP - LoPro+Thompson's Mix Recovery / Double stacked recovery add-ons are over tuned. PLEASE DO NOT NERF HIS BASE RECOVERY! Myself and many other Billy mains have given you ample feedback on what is needed to make him feel better, but not be broken.
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I'm so amazed we're at a point where survivors are begging for killers to be forced to M1 all the time. The reason killers have unique powers is so they can use them. Each power has a different counter play that you have to learn. M1 is supposed to be a back up if the survivor is counter playing PERFECTLY and you need pressure on them.
Examples:
Someone running around a large rock with Huntress. How do you get them to move? You m1 them.
Someone repeatedly vaulting T&L as Bubba, you m1 them to make them leave if you aren't able to get the chainsaw down.
Someone pre-drops safely and is very unpredictable, or knows tiles that have bad collision when versing you as Billy? You M1. In the vast majority of these games, I have not experienced people do this at all. I've had maybe 5 survivors since his buff that do this and you know what? I have to M1 them or leave them, because the chase is taking too long. Crazy, I know.
Killers are supposed to use their power as their main attack, so please stop trying to get Billy nerfed to where he's constantly forced to M1. Billy is massively reliant on map RNG / Collision and survivor mistakes. Once you understand proper counter play it is MUCH harder for Billy to get a down with his saw and he'll force you away from rough tiles by M1ing you.
The unfortunate truth is, because the massive amount of anti-loop killers we've had over the last few years, people have gotten complacent with just pre-drop + shift w winning the chase for them. Billy is from before this worked against most killers and having him buffed is showing you that he is the type of killer you cannot do this against, but you haven't learned that.
I'm not even shaming skill level here, I'm simply explaining, you need to adapt. What works against the majority of the roster does not work against Billy, but he has ample counter play when you do learn how to verse him.
I will repeat once again, miss recovery after LoPro when paired with Thompson's mix is overtuned, and so are double stack recovery add-ons. You're not seeing Billy players run those, because they want something OP, they're running them for two reasons.
- They made the majority of his add-ons boring/useless (Billy players begged to have the add-ons looked at on the PTB, so we could keep variety, since the point of this rework was to make him feel better and not tied to two sets of add-ons.)
- Removing the movement after bonking (even if slow) makes that + his new stun animation feel pretty bad, so the recovery add-ons make up for how bad that feels overall. Even if it's not FOR THIS, it makes him feel less like a slap to the face when you bonk, because you know if you don't bonk, you aren't as hard punished. Re-adding the movement + no camera lock after bonking, then nerfing recovery add-ons / the way they effect LoPro would make him feel MUCH better for both sides.
Since his creation Billy has been a killer with massive map-wide mobility and strong chase potential IF THE SURVIVOR MESSES UP. Unfortunately, when he was nerfed into the ground it left even the most skilled Billy players unable to punish survivor mistakes a lot of the time, because of how stacked maps are now. The map design for Billy has been such a rough thing, because over the years maps have gotten MUCH safer, and his nerf became EVEN MORE painful. This buff allows him to actually play maps now without being tied to the same add-ons permanently.
Besides his add-ons, it is just VERY CLEAR most of you do not understand how to verse Billy, since he was almost non-existent and you need time to learn. He requires patience in chase and not just pre-drop + shift w, or he will punish you for it. Chainsaw in Overdrive IS VERY HARD to control, so be unpredictable. Pre-drop and avoid a LoPro hit by not being next to the pallet after it's dropped. If there are a lot of obstacles between you and Billy, you can pretend to play a tile and LEAVE, this will make him waste a lot of time trying to mind game for an instant down. THERE IS A LOT OF COUNTER PLAY, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT, YET! Not to mention the fact that still in 2024, you can crouch tech Billy, which is crazy - just, the majority of you have no idea how that works.
You know things are bad when the Legion main comes to the Billy thread to defend him.
@[Deleted User] said:
damn billy really gonna get nerfed because people can't pre-drop a pallet to stop him from curving
nerfing billy tbh is like nerfing legion cuz the survivors grouped up and gave him a down in frenzy
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@DefJukies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639726#Comment_3639726
But at what point should a missed attack be game changing punishing, and what point should it be a bump in the road?
We have 0 criteria for what's considered "easily", other than that people are just giving vague examples with no standardized data. There's no footage showing actual tiles in question, perks or add-ons by either side, or even what particular mistakes are being made.
https://www.twitch.tv/defjukies/clip/IcyRichGalagoShadyLulu-kQL_BewF6iOVPIOf
You have a clip here where someone has a 4 lane with a pallet facing outside, with a window into a pallet tile, next to a generator, and instead they chose to crouch and walk away and take an m1, AND AVOID THE PALLET TILE. That shows you the average survivor's familiarity with how to play against Billy's new stats.
The 2nd survivor then chooses to greed a toba window right next to a pallet, and crouch techs me, has enough time to get up and drop a pallet EVEN WITH T-HOUSE MIX to get distance! But instead they get 2 tapped by enduring backside stun because they wanted to make a flashy play. Even if I had...double recovery with overdrive active, the feng had plenty of time to get to the window or pallet before I ripped saw.
Please start posting actual clips instead of imaginary anecdotes.
@WitchWalpurga said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639714#Comment_3639714
if you miss multiple attacks and the survivor still can't get anywhere then i would say according to your argument the billy should not deserve a down because he does not master his skill yet (he is inexperienced). So if even unexperienced billys can down people easily although missing, then the cooldown is indeed problematic.
Again, I agree with Jukies. While I do 100% feel that TMix is over tuned, there is a certain point where people have to realize the amount of stuff that has to go RIGHT for Billy to get downs with his saw and that is usually the survivors doing things WRONG. It's also massively dependent on map RNG/Collision. Billy is NOT BUBBA. While Bubba deals with collision it's not the same way as Billy. There is so much room for Billy to be robbed of downs when using his saw and it requires very good precision that an unpredictable survivor can easily take away. If Bubba is 2 feet from you, he's downing you.
THIS IS ESPECIALLY relevant with the addition of Overdrive. Controlling Billy in Overdrive is a massive learning curve even for experienced BIllys and it makes using his saw very hard at so many places it used to be EASY. The truth is the majority of players are just not used to versing Billy and aren't aware what he was capable of even pre-buff. Most people that played Billy pre-buff used their saw 90% of the time already unless smart survivors forced them to M1. This didn't happen TOO often, because...well...Billy was painful to play, to be honest and they probably rarely versed them, because of it. Every match was constant pre-drop every pallet and you were forced to either back rev (getting right behind the survivor to use the chainsaw) which required them MASSIVELY messing up, or hit them with LoPro through a pallet, then M1 them. If you were versing Billys that only used their saw for mobility 90% of the time and M1'd you the rest of the time, then they weren't actual Billy players and were probably just trying him out or doing a challenge/achievement, so that's why this is such a shock to most people.
The issue is without knowing what is JUDGED as a "miss", Billy cannot use his saw for zoning if he "misses" to do so, which would greatly nerf him if the change isn't done carefully. It is very common for good Billys to sprint past you to cut off a strong loop to ZONE you and technically that's considered "a miss". Previously he was massively punished for this (and just about everything else in his kit, not specifically this) and he shouldn't be, because his mobility is what makes him strong. This is a very DELICATE line that has to be adjusted, or he'll go back to being absolutely terrible. This is not Billy that is the issue, it is his add-ons. When survivors LEARN how to verse him, they will learn how to force him to M1 them, or he will waste massive amounts of time. He is extremely fast + Overdrive speed, so he can take advantage of one mistake INSTANTLY if the Billy is good.
You also have to remember that the VAST majority of Billys that are playing right now were mains before his buff. Many of them struggled through old Billy and had to adapt to become decent with a killer that was extremely hard to get good results out of unless you were INSANELY skilled at him. Those same Billys are now playing a killer that isn't broken, but actually DECENT and because of that, they're doing VERY well. If you're getting slaughtered quickly, good chance you're versing someone with MANY hours in Billy. The average person will not pick Billy up and instantly get insane results.
As for moving after bonk, there was nothing wrong with that on PTB, and it made him feel much less jarring + new player friendly. The only reason it felt over tuned at all is...you guessed it THE ADD-ONS. You weren't fast while moving after bonk, you were slow, but not stuck with a still camera, so it made it feel less punishing, even though the survivor barely lost any distance from being able to move during it.
Bottom Line, this is a learning curve + add-ons issue that needs to be adjusted. It is not a nerf Billy back into the gutter issue.
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@DefJukies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638794#Comment_3638794
This is terrible feedback. BHVR made a killer's power viable and the response is to say : "I want the power instead to be useless" without any further elaboration other than you enjoyed things when they were easier for your end.
Basekit, the cooldown is fine. Even with the overdrive window, it's fine. Same with the base collision stun and overdrive collision stun. I suggest that people learn how to play against Billy and keep in mind the changes that were made rather than taking chases like he's still old billy.
If cooldown add ons are problematic, I would suggest BHVR replace them with mother's helpers and black grease. I think that it's important to have a chase style add on to help add variety to builds and playstyles, and reintroducing those would help alleviate the concerns that saws are no longer "rewarding" to dodge.
Exactly this. I don't mean to sound rude to the people in this thread, but it is very obvious how rarely Billy was seen (so people didn't learn how to verse him), and not being able to just pre-drop every pallet and win has people claiming OP. Billy is a chase killer, his power is meant to have lethality and he has a high skill floor to do well when playing as him. If people are all getting 4 man slugged in seconds, or they're upset that the killer is using their power constantly instead of M1ing, they simply don't know how to verse Billy. THAT'S FINE, but don't request a killer that still requires a lot of effort to do good with be hard nerfed, because you're getting wrecked by them. The truth is, you guys just need to learn how to verse him.
The only "OP" thing about Billy right now is the double stacking cool down recovery add-ons / Thompson's mix+LoPro combo. Base-kit Billy is COMPLETELY FINE lethality-wise, but could still use some tweaks to make him feel better to play AS. Such as nerfing Tmix, but bringing back his ability to move while recovering from bonk. The only reason this felt STRONG was because of Thompson's Mix.
I have played about 16 hours of Billy over the last two days and I'm going to be honest with you guys. The vast majority of you just act like actual goobers when you verse him and die so easily. Like, you make it so easy to kill you, because you just run into him, or don't run to a tile and you just die in the open. MMR isn't that reliable, but I do win the majority of my games and the clip below has been COMMON today and yesterday.
Please Devs, be careful and review the feedback myself and other Billy mains have posted, because 90% of these posts are truly just inexperience. The other 10% are people that have genuine concern about his cool down add-ons + LoPro/TMix combo. He still requires so much skill to do well with and is still easily counterable if you UNDERSTAND how to verse Billy.
EXAMPLES 👇🏻
This video size is too large to post on the #DBD forums, so I'm posting it here to embed there. Other than Thompson's Mix + LoPro Combo or Double Stacked C/D addons, Billy is FINE right now. Most people saying he's broken do not understand how to verse Billy. #DeadByDaylight -
@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639252#Comment_3639252
Yea, but the Hillbilly's chainsaw feels like his basic attack with how often its used now but it puts you in the dying state instead of injuring you. There doesn't seem to be a balance there. It just seems excessive now.
No offense, but if you're getting downed so easily that it's like his chainsaw is an "M1", you are not experienced at versing Billy. Billy while his c/d after miss is over tuned (I address this), he still is easily counterable once you learn how to verse him.
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@Lynnziezie said:
I am loving the new billy update and how many new players are drawn to play/try him out! The basekit changes are all great, however there are some criticisms I have with the rework which I shall list below.
T-Mix is just way overtuned in its current state. I have no issues with the ending saw recovery aspect, however breaking pallet recovery is one step too far. It makes zoning with lopro way too free and awards free backrevs for just breaking a pallet, the surv gets no distance. I much prefer the movement speed mid bonk instead (which i am assuming was removed due to the bug where you bump while getting overdrive and can move REALLY fast, but said bug still persists.) Just because Billy was in such a weak state for so long does NOT mean I'm happy with uninteractive addons/values.
My main gripe is this: way too many overdrive addons! We do not need so many overdrive dissipation addons. 1 or 2 would suffice, as overheat billy only had a couple affecting the amount of overheat and this would allow for the return of more niche fun addons, which were previously weak/not used to due old basekit billy not being as strong or viable. The addons in question are as follows:
-Big Buckle: Combined with new overdrive replacing overheat, this could be a fun niche addon combined with monitor and abuse for stealth gameplay. A simple change would be to convert the values/activation from overheat to overdrive.
-Pighouse Gloves: Again, this addon used to be way too punishing for too little of a reward with overheat due to the big cooldown, however with the newly implemented overdrive, this becomes a more viable addon. Numerical values would have to be adjusted in relation to all the numerical buffs to basekit etc, however this addon would actually be worth running with overdrive if it was re-implemented.
-Leafy Mash: Lastly, one of my favourite niche addons - Leafy Mash. It was a fun mini stealth perk that was a unique interaction that rewarded successful chainsaw hits. The only downside was the timer, 15 seconds as soon as you enter the chainsaw recovery, was too short. I would love to see this addon re-implemented in place of one of the many oversaturated overdrive dissipation addons with the undetectable duration buffed. Even to 20-25 seconds would suffice and give you time to end your saw down recovery, hook the surv you downed and then proceed to traverse the map for a stealth snipe.
Billy is overall, from a basekit perspective, in a perfect spot. However some addons and numbers need to be tweaked.
Devs, please listen to at @Lynnziezie, she is one of the best Billys I know and played him through all of the pain Billy has faced. She also echos a lot of the feedback I have given above. Most actual Billy mains love the challenge of him, but know he needed help. We want him to be strong if you're willing to put in the time to learn him, but not broken. Billy is close to where he feels VERY good, but the stuff mentioned in mine and @Lynnziezie's post will get him in a much better place.
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I APPRECIATE THE BILLY UPDATE, BUT EVERYTHING FROM MY PTB FEEDBACK THREAD IS STILL ACCURATE AND NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED GOING FORWARD!
I would post it in regular feedback with some tweaks if I could access it, but I'm unable to. I did however realize that I could embed it at the bottom of the thread, so you can read it there!
Most skilled Billy mains do agree with my points, because I got the majority of that feedback from discussing the Billy changes with them and their communities.
There are slight tweaks that I'd like to add, though.
- I greatly appreciate the volume adjustment, even if I do wish it was about 10% quieter. HOWEVER, something I've noticed since the change is that you left Billy's yelp on KILLER SIDE loud enough to overcome the old chainsaw volume, so now it's just insanely loud out of nowhere. It can stay the same volume for survivors, but his yelp when starting a chainsaw sprint needs lowered to match the new chainsaw volume.
- PLEASE REVERT THE CHANGE TO BILLY'S STUN ANIMATION! I normally try to be constructively critical, but this change is horrible. It looks terrible and on max FOV his arms even dislocate. The change of the animation also makes bonking feel MUCH more punishing. Please revert this change, the animation didn't exist on PTB and it felt a lot better.
@DeadByDaylight can we please get confirmation on if this new bonk animation is intentional? It looks terrible, & I'm really hoping it's a bug / being reworked. Also, just another reminder that I miss when snow / picnic tables / chests weren't suffering. #DBD #DeadByDaylight- Thompson's Mix - One of the things I was worried about on PTB was how over tuned Thompson's mix felt when paired with LoPro, especially if in Overdrive. It's just insta break pallet and free zone. You guys ended up buffing TMix, but removing Billy's movement speed during recovery and this was the OPPOSITE way you should have went. Billy felt so much less painful when missing due to being able to move during recovery, but now if you bonk, you FULL STOP during recovery and it feels horrible. Allowing Billy to have movement during his recovery not only made him overall much more enjoyable, but let him feel like he had add-on freedom. Now we're in this awkward mixture of Tmix is over tuned and miserable to verse, but you feel like you need to run it, because it makes up for how miserable it feels to be stuck in place when in recovery, etc. Please consider reversing this change. A small numbers nerf to Tmix would have been fine, and you could have kept the movement speed Billy had in recovery.
- Sensitivity during Curving - I go in depth on this in my PTB thread (seriously, please look at that thread, I spent HOURS ON IT, and it's well outlined), but there is something wrong with how Billy sensitivity feels now. I assume this has something to do with the conversion of making Controller sens wrap up into just KILLER SENSITIVITY, so it doesn't affect curves anymore. I've always used 80% Killer Sens/80% Controller Sens to curve on Billy and no matter how high I turn my sensitivity up or increase my DPI, it still feels like HALF OF MY SENSITIVITY pre-patch. It's very frustrating. I don't know if this is a bug, or whats causing it, but it feels VERY inconsistent. Sometimes it feels fine, then the next game it feels like I have no sensitivity, something is wrong. It does not matter if I'm no engraving, engraving, or in overdrive, it feels off.
- Speaking of sensitivity, let's talk about the sensitivity during the curve window. Overdrive is fantastic and frustrating all at the same time. It can feel so good, but also make you feel like you can't use your power at loops you normally would be able to. It will also kick in right as you're about to curve and you don't expect it. Because of the increased speed/sensitivity/velocity during the curve window, it leads to missing a down that could have possibly been very easy to achieve. The biggest QoL you could give Billy right now is to not have Overdrive affect the curve window. The speed happening just after the sensitivity period is fine, but the change in velocity makes you feel punished for trying to use your power at so many loops. This also leads to many curves being MUCH wider than you were planning, because, the increased speed leads to you not being able to curve fast enough without throwing your mouse across the desk. If you know Overdrive is about to happen, or happens before you commit to a curve, you can prepare for this and go wide to try and make up for it, but if it happens right as you're about to commit to the curve and you don't know it's coming, it can be VERY frustrating. Simply making the velocity/sensitivity during the increased sens window not affected by Overdrive would make him feel much better. The only other way to solve this feeling so frustrating would be to do as I mention in my thread and make Overdrive feel more like "Main Event" and allow it to be activated, but simply adjusting this sensitivity issue within the curve window would just overall make him feel MUCH more fluid and enjoyable, please consider looking into this.
- Add-Ons are VERY repetitive - It was highly requested that you combine some of the Overdrive rate/dissipation add-ons, so you could keep other niche add-ons like "Leafy Mash" and "Big Buckle". These were silly add-ons that didn't get much play time, because Billy felt required to run one of two add-on combos, but that is no longer true. It's sad, because we're finally to a place where it feels like we could have had fun with those add-ons, but you removed them.
BOTTOM LINE
Billy is in a much better place, but I do wish that you considered more of the feedback that was echoed among many Billy mains during the PTB. I appreciate you listened about the volume, but there were so many other things that would have taken Billy's rework from being "GREAT" to a "MASTERPIECE". I implore you to read my thread from the PTB forums, because I spent a very long time providing constructive and helpful criticism based on a LOT of crowd sourced feedback in the Billy community.
Lastly, HUGE thank you to the devs for the Billy update, it means more to the BIlly community than you could possibly understand. I just hope it's not a 1 and done, because he still needs some more tweaks to get him perfect.
-RealSlowLoris
I've inserted my PTB thread below! Even though I'm not able to view it any other way, it did let me embed it!
@SlowLoris said:
Hello all!
I'm RealSlowLoris and I have a chunk of feedback for the Billy changes!
Before getting started, here is a small bit of background on me. I have 7k hours in DBD and a good chunk of those are Billy. I've taken breaks from him due to meta changes, etc, but I always come back to him and get to relearn him all over again. I play a lot of survivor AND killer, while trying to be a mostly 50/50 player. My goal with my suggested changes and points below is to make him fun, balanced, fair and no longer clunky feeling for BOTH SIDES. I am not even 1/10th as skilled on Billy as players like @ZainM ,@gtVel , @SofaReks , @CertifyDBD, @Lynnziezie, @alranican etc., but I've learned a lot from them and watch most of them as much as I can when they're live, so I can learn even more. So, please understand, even if I am not mechanically as sound as the people mentioned above, I'm very knowledgeable about Billy's strengths, weaknesses, and issues.
I waited until the end of the week to post my opinions on the Billy changes, because I not only wanted to test things as much as possible myself, but I also wanted to see how lots of Billy mains were adjusting to new Billy and what their thoughts were.
A lot of topics, a few differing opinions, but the points below were CONSISTENT across the majority of Billy conversations and debates about the future of PTB Billy, so I wanted to bring this feedback directly to the devs. I felt it was important to see how the majority of GOOD BILLY players feel he should be adjusted. I also wanted to keep in mind that it's important for you guys to also make Billy feel more accessible for new players, so you don't want him ONLY balanced for high skill gaming. Luckily, with the addition of Overdrive, you've helped A LOT with this.
With all that said, let's get into all the different points that were commonly brought up!
⭐BASE-KIT
🛠Base-kit Speed - While I do appreciate the overall speed increase to his base-kit, he really needs to have at least the percentage increase from Death Engraving Base-kit. If you need to adjust Overdrive to account for this - THAT IS COMPLETELY FINE - but he needs this speed base-kit, so it doesn't feel REQUIRED to run new Iridescent engraving every game. You've done a good job giving his alternate play styles the ability to be played, but I still feel to have ANY lethality in my power I am required to run an Iridescent add-on, or I'll be forced to only play drift billy, or back rev people most of the time. I feel it's also necessary to say that his charge time should not be increased for having Death Engraving base-kit. In a world with constant pre-dropping + shiftW + 500 pallets, Death Engraving base-kit is necessary to make him viable if not in Overdrive.
⭐VOLUME
🛠Chainsaw Volume - If there is one thing I saw in EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION it was the volume of Billy's chainsaw. While I do agree it needs to remain at a certain volume for balance, its current volume is just not okay anymore in DBD 2024. You could lower the volume by 30-40% and it would still make it very hard to hear the survivor without being mind numbing to the Billy player.
The biggest things I see turn people away from playing him is either
🔧A) High base learning curve
🔧B) Chainsaw volume
When I'm streaming, and I go back into Billy only game-play for a while, I have so many people straight up tell me they want to be around to support, but they can't stand how loud it is. That shouldn't really be acceptable for Billy. Please consider at the minimum lowering the volume of his chainsaw by 30-40%.
⭐INFORMATION - AUDIO & VISUAL
🛠Audio Feedback/Visual Feedback - Speaking of chainsaw sounds, lets talk about the change of hearing Billy's saw charge now. While I do agree Overdrive has quite a bit of lethality and the survivor needs information on if Billy might be curving, because of Overdrive, you've made Billy overall MUCH MORE predictable and NERFED him with this change. Audibly HEARING how much Billy is revved tells the survivor 100% Billy is committing to a curve and they can avoid it. The more experienced a survivor becomes, the more they will know roughly how long Billy's saw charge time will be. This is the learning curve of versing Billy, and if you consider my base-kit speed change, there will be very little that changes the charge time for Billy going forward, so it will be consistent. The survivor will have the knowledge of how long they are safe, unless Billy is faking and if that's the case, they can still get to safety, because Billy isn't fully charged. Billy would still be allowed to mind game and should be able to, because that is one of the funnest parts of Billy's chase on both sides.
However, myself and many others highly dislike killers that have zero audio/visual feedback of them getting ready to use their power, so I have a compromise. Perhaps you'd consider instead of audible rev information constantly during Billy's chase letting people know that Billy is getting close to Overdrive, we could recycle the old OVERHEAT visuals of the engine getting more and more red/boiling, but right as Overdrive kicks in it fades to the blue. This way survivors can see that Billy is getting close to Overdrive being available, and not get 100% caught off guard by it if they just started chase with them while it's 90%+. You also wouldn't have to feel it's necessary to let survivors always hear Billy's charge time to try and balance the strength of Overdrive / giving info. On the positive side of audible feedback - The map-wide alert for Overdrive is fine, even if it'd be nice if it didn't exist while Undetectable.
Let's summarize audio/visual changes
🔧A) Hearing Billy's Rev Progress - This should go
🔧B) Map-wide Alert when hitting Overdrive - This is fine, but please consider it being silent if Billy is Undetectable.
🔧C) Billy Visuals For Balance - Recycle the old Overheat animation to start out low red and grow to the boiling/fumes to display that Billy is about to get Overdrive, then fade into Overdrive Blue, so the survivor has more information without nerfing Billy's ability to mind game.
⭐SENSITIVITY / BUGS
🛠Sensitivity - There is something wrong with the sensitivity changes on the PTB. I appreciate you trying to resolve the current issue, especially since people newer to Billy struggle to understand that controller sensitivity affects Billy as well for mouse and keyboard, this isn't working properly/as intended.
Even at Max sensitivity, and tripling my dpi, I could not get it to feel even close to 80% killer/80% controller sens/1300 dpi. It always felt half of my sens and INCONSISTENT at that. Sometimes it'd be insanely fast or rarely, feel perfect. If it was working properly I wouldn't have needed to change my dpi or sensitivity, because I've always had 80% for both sliders.
If it can't be made to equal previous sensitivity, perhaps adding a "curve/dash" sensitivity slider as well would solve confusion and not force me to mess up my sensitivity on other killers.
IMPORTANT TAKEAWAYS ABOUT SENSITIVITY
🔧If this cannot be fixed before going live, please at least temporarily REVERT the change, because it makes him rather frustrating to play for those dealing with the problem.
🔧Overdrive velocity should not affect initial turn rate, because it drastically NERFS him and setting up curves if it procs unexpectedly.
⭐OVERDRIVE OVERALL
🛠Overdrive Charge Rate- Right now it feels like you get it a little TOO OFTEN when you aren't playing drift Billy, simply regular Billy. However, it's also forced upon you at a loops, making it almost impossible to curve like normal, so your power feels pretty nerfed. Perhaps making it an activation button, or fixing the sensitivity being insanely harder to control if in Overdrive would resolve this. It feels like you just overall get it a little too frequently, but NEVER at the right time.
🛠Overdrive Drift - This feels amazing, the rate you get Overdrive during extended chainsaw sprint is fine and makes more play styles viable, but perhaps making sprint Overdrive dissipate the same way Overheat would start recharging after a long sprint ended would make him feel more fluid. Perhaps not immediately, but taper off, so you can curve normally, etc. No matter what, Overdrive should stay the way it is WHILE DRIFTING, but the way you earn it in chase needs tweaked to feel much better to play with and verse. Possibly the point below could solve this.
🛠Activation Option - Quite a few people have suggested Overdrive being like Main Event and I don't think it'd be horrible. You could allow Overdrive to happen during Extended Sprints (drift billy) like it is now, but have it automatically act like Overheat and end as soon as the sprint ends. When in chase you could build towards charging Overdrive with revs/curve attempts and when you "charge" Overdrive you could have an activate button just like Main Event. If you choose to go this route, THE SENSITIVITY/ACCELERATION during the curve window STILL NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. Drifting Overdrive would only happen with extended chainsaw sprints, so it helps Billy have fantastic map mobility and also make play styles like Drift Billy actually viable. Having the ability to "activate" Overdrive would also allow you to choose if you use it in chase or to immediately start a chainsaw sprint at high speed to get to an objective quickly.
⭐RECOVERY
🛠Miss recovery - Thank you for listening that Billy felt overly punished for missing! However, there are two parts to this that need to be discussed.
🔧A) Billy miss recovery is a little too forgiving. The movement speed is completely fine, but his saw recovery needs to be every so slightly longer - NOTHING CRAZY, just a little. I cannot stress enough how it doesn't need to be A LOT longer, just a little bit. Right now it feels like the survivor is punished for Billy missing his saw and it should be the other way around. HOWEVER, it's important to be careful with this, because Billy players use his saw simply for zoning sometimes and won't be trying to land a saw, simply cut off a strong loop, etc, so they shouldn't be punished for that. That's another reason it's very important that you're still able to move at the speed currently on the PTB even if you can't saw as quickly as before. This allows saw zoning without allowing instant back revs that feel horrible when Billy misses in normal game-play.
🔧B) Thompson's Mix add-on EXACERBATES THIS! I'm not sure if it's intended that Thompson's mix affects Billy's missed C/D, but it leads to extremely problematic play styles that will take Billy from a mostly loved killer to one that is despised. If you need to nerf Thompson's to resolve this, or just rework the add-on, that should be considered.
⭐ADD-ONS
🛠Add-on repetitiveness - While I'm very thankful for the massive change of add-ons, it does feel like they are VERY repetitive. I think partially combining a couple of the charge rate or dissipation add-ons, etc and making add-ons with other effects would be really nice, but I know that's a huge ask this close to actual launch. I also know it's hard to come up with ideas for other add-on effects.
Some add-ons that would be nice to have back / bring variety
🔧Leafy Mash - This add-on shouldn't be removed. It's enjoyed for more chill builds and could easily take place of one of the Overdrive c/d duration add-ons.
🔧Cracked Primer Bulb - A suggestion I've seen a few times is to make it where if using this addon, you only do one health state of damage, but you are permanently in Overdrive. As supersonic mentions below, this would create fun play styles and allow Billy players to practice Overdrive timing more consistently!
👍🏻New Player Friendly Add-On: I want to mention my opinion about an add-on that people keep requesting be buffed, because they think it's terrible: COUNTERWEIGHT. I feel like the entire point of this add-on is to make Billy a LOT easier to deal with until you're ready for the learning curve of...curving, etc (no pun intended). It also helps people that are just getting their adept back rev easier and I think that's an add-on that is okay for its purpose. I feel if there were less "fodder" add-ons as mentioned above, nobody would complain about this having a purpose like this.
🛠Add-On Ideas
Like I said, this one is tough, because you don't want to make him too strong via add-ons, but his repetitive add-ons feel very uninspired.
Perhaps add-ons that give effects that other killers get from add-ons. Something like an infectious Fright add-on, or removing Billy's Yelp when committing to saw, etc. Some sort of variety would be really nice, but I know how hard that can be.
⭐FINAL THOUGHTS
While there are definitely some things that need to be tweaked, you guys really did not disappoint when you said you were going to work on Billy. Billy has been my favorite killer to play and verse for years, but as more pallets / stronger tiles were added, I'd find myself frustrated to play him at times.
With that being said, I want to say thank you for this update, because you could have just removed Overheat, buffed/nerfed/reworked a few add-ons and called it a day, but you didn't. You added so many QoL things that I've begged for and wanted for years, so I couldn't be happier. The reduced collision is a god send, and so is being less punished for bonking. You've even made my silly meme builds ACTUALLY VIABLE now, so I can have fun without 100% throwing for stealth/drift Billy.
I realize a lot of the changes that I've mentioned above will be very tough to tweak/make happen before live, but please don't let these changes go unnoticed. Even if they can't come this update, these are all things that really should be considered.
You've made a beautiful work of art with the changes to Billy, these adjustments will make it a masterpiece :)
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@Coordi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560071#Comment_3560071
Thanks for confirming, Seanzu!
Resolved for me as well! Thank you guys for getting this done before the work day was over!
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@Sleem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559965#Comment_3559965
I've never had any of those actively equipped, nor do I care about them. So I doubt that's the issue.
Thanks for the response, just wanted to make sure in case it's something simple like that!
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Take this with a grain of salt, but someone responded to my Tweet with this, and it ended up being true for me.
Is it the same for anyone else in this thread?
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I'm having the exact same issue.
Steps I've tried:
Took all custom .ini settings out.
Verify Game Files
Reinstalled DBD
Cleared Steam D/L cache (that's helped with other stuff in the past)
Turned off my VPN.
Still no matter what, I'm greeted with the same screen.
Multiple people have told me that they have the issue, but can access it on another account. It's unfortunate, because I was very excited to stream the update today / go over recent changes, etc, but I haven't been able to login since the update went live. Should have been online 3 hours ago :(
I can message my steam cloud ID as well if it will be helpful. I believe it's the "player ID" from tickets, right? If so, I can copy and paste it from a previous ticket.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519694#Comment_3519694
Sorry to bother you but may I private message you about the filters ? I also have one blind eye on top of a degenerative eye disease so playing too long make my eye hurt and I can't see anything in dark spots, some of these would really be a great help for me or at least allow me to not have to set my luminosity to the max everytime I launch the game.
Sure! I actually made profiles of them and I plan on making a YT video soon, so I can share them for other vision impaired folks.
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@Seraphor said:
Yet in some areas they're better than real players. Especially against stealth killers, who cannot sneak up on a bot, because they constantly ping the killers location in real time.
It feels like these 'bad decisions' are one of the things keeping them balanced.
Bad decisions shouldn't be balance. They should be balanced to be fair, but not broken. Half the time their pathing is horrendous and they're an easy down if you just hold W after them. Although, I do agree, they should be affected by Undetectable / Oblivious
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@NAERUUU said:
One reason : MONEY.
I mean, making stuff for money (like blocking DLC on steam), is not " bad ", you know, its an enterprise so, they need to do business.
I mean, they didn't make this choice, Steam did. It's still possible to share DLC as long as the other person doesn't own the base game, because of how STEAM changed this system.
I don't see how FOMO would be a thing when the full non-exclusive sets have come back. I just feel like they think they'll get more money, etc out of full sets coming back, and the singular pieces are a waste of time, but for me they aren't.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
They definitely need work. I basically just unhook them and that's it. I do not interact with them in any other way. I don't do gens with them, nothing. They fail way too many skill checks. I like to think of them as cannon fodder for the killer but there have been times where the bot opened the door and royally screwed everyone. So I'm not really sure anymore. If they are on second I don't even bother saving because they will most likely miss the checks before I get there.
Yup, exactly. If anything right now they are a hindrance in a lot of situations. End Game --> Clutch Gen Finish --> 2nd Hook.
Like, again, I realize you guys want realism, but the average decent survivor doesn't miss almost any skill checks. I only miss them if I'm talking to my chat, or it's a skill check build. Can they just NOT miss 2nd hook skill checks - unless it's just them and one living survivor left, so they know to die and the real person has a chance to live. When it comes to gen skill checks massively lowering how much they miss UNLESS running Hyperfocus is really needed. It's nutty how many they'll miss at the worst times. They even miss healing skill checks, or stop mid heal if there is even a HINT of TR. Or, they don't have certain logic, like 95% healed with sloppy and the killer is approaching? They'll let go and run away healing the death hook survivor. If they finish the heal, and take a hit, because they haven't been hooked, both get away fine, but they don't know to commit in LOGICAL situations. Like, some sort of A (5% left of a sloppy heal to finish on a death hook survivor) > (avoiding injury when you haven't been hooked)
Perhaps end game teach them to 99 and exit gate if there are living / hooked survivors. (Heal injured teammates then wait by door to open it when a teammate gets within a certain range) > (insta open and leave)
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I personally use NVIDIA Filters, just being perfectly honest.
I am also Deuteranopia (Red-Green) Colorblind. I have issues with tracking because the Scratchmarks and grass/foliage on most maps blend in too much, so I use NVIDIA Filters to make up for it.
I do technically use them for an advantage... but only because Im a disadvantaged from my eyesight. I dont use anything absurd like you showcased, I just use things to make the grass look a bit duller, and make the colors have a higher contrast.
Example of what my screen looks like:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OEGXBGBEPGUE/screenshot-28905-29.png
I personally dont know how different this looks to normal gameplay since frankly I dont have normal vision, I hope someone can explain how good or bad this looks compared to the base game.
Also another thing, my NVIDIA Filters do have a HUGE downside. Being that I can see well on normal maps, but I really struggle on Coldwind Farm, Eyrie of Crows, and Decimated Borgo.
These NVIDIA Filters and colorblind settings cause the colors on those maps to blend together, and while I know I can technically just make Filters for those maps, I think it is fair to balance things out by keeping the same Filters on the entire time.
You mentioned my exact issue. Those three maps are painful to look at for me without separate filters, because using my default filters to resolve issues overall make them brutal on the eyes.
Your game doesn't look much different to mine, other than the obvious colorblind filter that offers no advantage, simply puts you on an even playing field.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520942#Comment_3520942
This isn't a thread about Lightburn, so I won't go into any of that, I'm just saying...Different play styles are healthy.
Except for the killer player's eyes, in this case.
Also, you quoted me talking about LightBURN, not LightBORN, different things.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520942#Comment_3520942
This isn't a thread about Lightburn, so I won't go into any of that, I'm just saying...Different play styles are healthy.
Except for the killer player's eyes, in this case.
That's not what we're talking about though, right? You said that build was useless, and I'm simply saying, that's incorrect. There are many niche builds that can be very good if used well. If the killer doesn't like being blinded by that build, they can chase someone else or do what I do if someone blinds me a lot. I look down and make them waste a lot of the beam at a pallet and if they try again, I jokingly give NOPERS. Almost always leads to them not doing it anymore and if they do, there are many silly moments afterwards.
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It's actually hilarious that shortly after posting this I was able to get a perfect example of how Bots interact with Wesker.
https://twitter.com/RealSlowLoris/status/1693023148977897665?s=20Again, I appreciate that we have bots now. Unfortunately, most people just go next on hook to avoid the D/C penalty since it starts at 5 minutes and even then, I'm not sure if that's a bad thing, because at least they aren't free pressure for the killer. Most games I'm in the killer hard tunnels the bot out anyway, which doesn't take long, so it's essentially a 3v1.
I worry that the solution will end up being not allowing KOBES without Deli or Slippery Meat, and I hope that isn't it. Or at the very least, if it is, allow it when there is already one survivor slugged besides the hooked survivor, in case someone needs to Kobe, because they can see obvious snowball about to happen + allow it right before second hook in case someone isn't going to make it in time.
Obviously bots are rather new and these aren't the only insane things I've seen them do, but I can upload many more if you want to see them.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520936#Comment_3520936
So I was right, it is an incredibly useless way to play, that gets me killed because my teammates are too busy memeing to do the objective of the game.
How "fun"!
I don't see where this makes you right.
Blind builds are certainly a thing. Sometimes I'll run Blast Mine/Flash Bang/Residual/Fixated + Double Duration Blind beamer, because those builds are actually good, whether you like it or not. I can blind at a pallet and the amount of confusion / time it buys, because I fixated away after blind and the killer cannot figure out where I went is insane.
Like it or not there are builds that aren't "useless" that require blinds. Sometimes I'll toss is Parental Guidance, because the blind/stun on Blast Mine lets me leave the area with PG.
Just because you think your builds are superior to others, doesn't make them that way. I have 100% ran killers for entire matches with a silly build like this. Why? Because it's rare and unique.
The same way Lightburn shouldn't have been removed, because you rarely saw someone use it, it should have been reworked. Rare/Unique Tactics should be rewarded, so every lobby isn't just MFT/Resil/DH/Hope.
This isn't a thread about Lightburn, so I won't go into any of that, I'm just saying...Different play styles are healthy.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
My problem with light born, is that it completely counters an entire build/playstyle with one perk slot. No perk in the game should entirely counter a certain strategy.
Imagine if survivors could equip a perk to make them immune from vault grabs? Or immune from being hooked in the basement?
Light born should have a cool down - in my opinion of course.
Light born also promotes gen rushing because survivors have nothing else to do because their entire build has been countered by one perk slot. Same with other survivor nerfs, such as healing. Survivors just do gens instead.
Sloppy butcher needs a good nerf too. I have the same issues with that one. Why would a survivor run resurgence, reactive healing, etc. When this one perk completely counters them? That's why no one really does.
This is my exact issue with Distortion. I have at least one in every lobby, usually 2+. I used to run info builds instead of slow down, not anymore. What is your "slow down" in those builds? Not having to wonder if someone is hiding edge map, because MMR doesn't work, you have the info.
Distortion charging IN CHASE means that I pretty much cannot run 3-4 info perks and just play chill / practice a killer power. At most I run Infectious now, because people have been playing so stealthy since the buff to Distortion. I'm worried that people will start running Calm Spirit and make Infectious useless when the new info perk comes out during the Alien chapter.
I'm fine with Distortion being strong, some people hate being chased and want to be gen jockeys. My issue is that it can pretty much entirely delete most or all of my build without EVER interacting with me. This is exacerbated if I play Wesker, because my TR is so big they don't even need to be near me at all to keep permanent stacks. Then in solo queue it's so very common for a teammate to never see the killer/be hooked and why? At the end you find out they have distortion.
I have the game sense to know where they are, but the info confirms it and is necessary without slow down. If I ran just aura perks still, or mostly aura / no slow down to incentivize chases over just M1 holding, games would finish in just a couple of minutes. It's just so silly that it doesn't require things to earn your stacks. PEBBLE doesn't even charge in chase, why does Distortion?
I won't continue talking about Distortion, because I could go on for ages on why it was horribly reworked, but the fact is for both sides it's unhealthy and should require altruistic actions, etc to earn stacks. Completing a gen -> Safe Unhook -> Altruistic Heal -> protection hit -> beamer/pallet save, etc. Anything that helps/progresses the trial should be rewarded, but not being insanely stealthy, because it's unhealthy for both sides.
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@KaTo1337 said:
Wouldnt it be good if people are able to see things in a videogame?
The game feels much darker since two patches. Maybe Im wrong or my Monitor has the wrong settings, but I definitely feel like the game itself has become darker.
See, I'm wondering if this is a PC thing or an overall thing, because this started being an issue for me (when I started using filters) when R.P.D was first released. I used to only disable Anti-Aliasing in the ini file, because it made the game overly blurry, and again, my vision is really bad. They changed the lighting engine and for months R.P.D was UNPLAYABLE without filters on Ultra. It was so dark I couldn't see 2 feet in front of me in some rooms. The same as how it was broken on Garden of Joy main for ages.
Over the last few months, it's come back to being insanely dark on a lot of maps. It's no longer the normal "stealth" darkness, it's almost like someone is using a bouquet offering on some maps. It's unplayable if you have bad vision.
The pictures I show in my post are close to what most rooms on R.P.D looked like for me until I started using filters, but they were DARKER than that. If someone looks at that and thinks it's possible to play on, they're on COPIUM.
I get people feeling like certain filters are ridiculous. I've seen plenty that I do go, "yeesh", but...for most, the game has lacked accessibility for poor vision for ages.
In fact, my filters above actually put me at a disadvantage a lot. I have really bad ADHD, and because of the altered contrast, my brain makes my eyes constantly flick to the edge of my screen when anything on the edge of the screen is in my vision. Boons, Deep Wounds, etc. I will often die in chase very fast if either of these things are on my screen.
Moreover, because I don't use them for an "advantage" only accessibility, I don't have Gamma increase for things like Dreadge, so my filters actually make Nightfall DARKER. I can only see about 2 feet around me if I'm lucky and not on an indoor map.
The DBD community overall frustrates me so much, because it's okay to fight for accessibility when it's something like Beamers, but can't seem to understand why filters are necessary without massive QOL adjustments for in game settings. Stuff like this just makes me feel people truly fought about Beamers not because of accessibility, but because they had someone click click at them a few times and wanted to see them burn, so they used accessibility as an excuse to assure they get changed. (Not everyone, mind you, but some).
This has been an issue with every "competitive" game for ages. I remember when Overwatch first launched, Symmetra players played on low settings, because it made certain bushes invisible, so they could put turrets in them, so people on Ultra got screwed over. In my screen shots, I did not increase brightness, I simply use Ultra with the number in my ini file for "Low" shadows, because if I don't, I cannot stream this game daily without ending the day with a massive Migraine - not a headache, a Migraine. I'm happy that a lot of the people in this thread can't seem to understand why that isn't acceptable, because they have great vision, but it is not. Just returning Mac/Aza to their original colors blue/green makes it "appear" brighter. I could show those same screen shots with the color change gone and it'd still seem "darker", because the color hue brings the maps "to life" so to say.
If need be, I can waste my time proving this, or I could have a friend get in game with me and hide behind different objects in a dark outfit and I will show you what that looks like with and with/without my filters, I will still be able to see them easily, but I will have to squint, because my vision is so poor.
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My friend Jinxy is currently doing a Billy Win Streak, so clearly he is a very good Billy.
This is a clip showing JUST HOW SAFE these rocks are against a Billy using their power now. Thalita didn't even drop the pallet in this clip, because she was completely safe and didn't have to, unless Billy just M1s. If the collision was the way it used to be, she would have needed to drop the pallet, but still would have been completely safe if she dropped it, unless she messed up like crazy. Still a very safe tile with old collision, but PLAYABLE with Billy's power and easily stays very safe by just dropping the pallet.
It's okay for a tile to be strong against Billy, but not even requiring the survivor drop a pallet to counter the killers power at these tiles is so silly.
Do you see how wide he has to take the curve, because the hit box is massive? (Not to mention the amazing twigs being right there).
I think this really shows why the Collision change was not needed. When he downs her, it is completely her fault, because she misplays the tile massively, otherwise, he'd only be able to M1 here for the most part.
Please, again...I beg, revert the change. It hurt no one, but made Eyrie at least bearable among the many safe pallets and frustrating twigs.
https://clips.twitch.tv/ConsiderateCooperativeHamsterDAESuppy-pIJAoObJR3JABwsE -
@Nos37 said:
Stop the killer from dropping survivors when blinded. Have it instead weaken the killer, increasing the carried survivor's wiggle speed or the killer's sway amount, and/or hide hook auras from the killer.
Until then, Lightborn should stay as is.
New perks are making it easier to extend chases longer and longer. It's complete BS that a flashlight can undo the killer's efforts in seconds.
I would counter this with saying, even though I agree MFT is an issue and other perks do help in chase. It is easier than ever to hard tunnel someone out of the game now. Especially with the removal of Lightburn. I can no longer burn a tunneling Nurse to protect a teammate and you cannot body block her. I cannot burn a Wraith with faster SD/STBFL that is hard tunneling, etc.
So, yes, certain perks are BS right now, and there is almost no chance of some of them not seeing a nerf soon, but it has literally never been easier in the history of DBD to delete someone out of the game early right now.
Before someone says "OTR"...yeah, nah. Like, if they're gonna hard tunnel you, they were gonna hit your BT anyway, and that means they were hitting OTR and removing it.
⭐️Again, I am not saying that Lightborn should be nerfed, even though I despise it. I'm just saying, the amount of people that try to give reasons for needing a perk that are literally just...learn the counter play, will never stop me from wanting to explain why it's a wasted perk slot, unless you have an accessibility problem. By reading the responses in this thread, this is not the issue, just lack of wanting to waste the time to learn how to play against them.
Eventually, over time - with more hours, etc. You will long for people that want to go for beamers / interact with the killer, instead of them sitting on gens. I'm not saying, "haha, nerd, you're new, you don't get it". I'm simply saying, you learn how to deal with them if you DON'T run Lightborn and it often leads to a 4k simply by interacting with survivors + getting to actually massively outplay them. Not the "haha, I look straight in your face on pick up to assert Lightborn dominance". Nobody is like, "wow, you sure got me!" It's more like "Yeah, I was right, he has Lightborn. Well, I guess I'm gonna go sit on gens to go next as quickly as possible".
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519723#Comment_3519723
"they can see where you go"
That is why I said blind them during a pallet stun / pallet break. Blind them while they're stunned and run off while they're looking down to break the pallet. Use line of sight blockers to hide and make distance (no scratch marks to tell the killer which direction you went).
I use Lightborn all the time. I've had survivors with Distortion use Lightborn against me to lose me.
Do you not understand how Lightborn works? You cannot blind them. Even if you attempt to, nothing happens on their end....
Like, it's just a waste of time, their vision is not hindered at all when you attempt to blind them.
If you're getting lost when someone does this to you, you must close your eyes when someone also attempt to blind you.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519678#Comment_3519678
Lightborn shows the killer the auras of survivors who attempt to blind them. Distortion activates when the survivor's aura is read. It does TWO things: hides your aura from the killer AND hides your scratch marks, both for 10 seconds.
If the killer cannot be blinded, he does not need an aura to see what way you went. The most you can say is scratch marks, but even then, it doesn't matter, because THEY CAN SEE WHERE YOU GO, because they aren't blinded.
The fact is, since the removal of Lightburn from the game, if a killer is running Lightborn and you aren't running Object of Obsession, beamers are basically 100% useless.
I am not saying Lightborn should be nerfed, even if I do think it should be adjusted, I am simply saying, it is silly to act as if that is a good use of your beamer if the killer has Lightborn. You'd be better just making as much distance as possible and not wasting a Distortion stack.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519694#Comment_3519694
I see the exact same thing on my monitor as you posted as vanilla images. I see a lot better with the filters you use.
I'm happy that you have perfect vision and using these filters provides you no advantage - it would provide a massive advantage for me.
I'm aware that using such filters are allowed. I'm just asking why, and adding my two cents: I think they shouldn't be.
You are just trying to fight to fight.
I've literally said multiple times, I am 90% blind in my right eye. For me, filters are an accessibility issue. If they're a massive advantage for you, then maybe you should calibrate your monitor, because, you can do the exact same thing and if you want the advantage, it's right there waiting for you. The only difference is I can change between 3 sets for what makes the map look the prettiest.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519677#Comment_3519677
Yes, perfect example for what we who play the default game and accept that it has stealth elements consider cheating.
I'm personally baffled by the fact that this is allowed. Even if the game can't detect such filters currently, I have no clue while streamers of all people who constantly provide video-evidence of using 3rd party tools to gain an unfair advantage aren't getting banned.
You are still able to stealth just fine with my filters. I did not increase the BRIGHTNESS on those maps. I lowered the shadows setting in the .ini file, which is the same as playing on Low Settings, I just like how pretty it looks on Ultra. I cannot play the game with the Ultra shadows, I literally cannot form depth perception from being almost blind in my right eye.
Why would streamers get banned for using filters when they are white listed by BHVR?
I get your annoyance with EQ, it's frustrating. There is unfortunately nothing that can be done about it.
Filters like mine are 100% doable by playing on low settings and adjusting your contrast/brightness/hue on your monitor/tv. It is available to everyone. I did not add some special filter to help me cheat.
I'm happy you have perfect vision, but the game as it stands is much too blurry by default for me to play it. Some of the color palletes Borgo/Eyrie are so flat/one sided that it basically looks like a FLAT image to me, because of my vision problems.
If you were unable to do these things, I might agree, but my filters can literally be done on any platform if playing on low settings as soon as the ability to turn AA comes out on Alien release. I just have a hot key, so I can change between 3 profiles for what accentuates the map the best / makes it look more cinematic.
I do not increase my brightness on low settings so I can see people in bushes, etc. You can still easily stealth. My Macmillan pictures are 100% evidence that there is nothing different, except the hue/color saturation/sharpness. If they were "stealthing with my filters off, I'd have still seen them, but I'd have to be squinting, because of my vision, which would lead to a migraine. If you still don't believe me, I will load the same map up and get a bot to stealth to show you that I can still see them just the same.
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@Nos37 said:
Survivors can still use their flashlight as a tool against Lightborn if they have Distortion and blind the killer after a pallet stun / pallet break to throw the killer off their tracks.
Huh. So you're saying, I should bring a beamer to waste my time blinding a killer that cannot be blinded, so I can block the aura reading that doesn't matter, because they couldn't be blinded at the pallet anyway?
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I'm gonna be honest. While I do think there are certain tweaks that are a bit "nutty" in relation to filters. It's as simple as those certain filters being black listed for use with Dead By Daylight. I'm not talking about black listing Nvidia Filters / Reshade, simply the filters that can create a ridiculous advantage. Most competitive games block the specific ones I'm talking about.
I use Nvidia Filters, because if I didn't, I couldn't stream this game every day. I have very poor eye sight and this game is EXTREMELY blurry / muddy by default. I use the game to legitimately make it look prettier and not hurt my eyes / give me migraines. If they got removed, I would not be able to stream DBD anymore.
Here are some examples of my filters. Due to the limited function of Nvidia Filters a color filter with contrast is the only way to really add "depth" of color to the game. I wish I could keep the darker tone of the game, but it's just not possible without it being so dark it hurts my eyes. For a very obvious example in these pictures. Look at how blurry/dark Billy's weapon is without filters, then look how good it looks WITH them.
This is also with my ini file edited for reduced anti aliasing / and lighter shadows, BECAUSE the game on Ultra makes certain areas INSANELY dark. I would like to clarify, this "lighter shadows" change, is just the same as playing the game on low settings, but I like the game to look nice, so I want it on Ultra, but with the shadows of Low Settings simply due to the fact I have very poor eye sight. For months after the origional R.P.D release, you couldn't even see in the Leon's Office area, it was so dark. Or Garden of Joy inside main was pitch black - game lighting problem after they updated the lighting engine.
Mac WITHOUT Filters.
Mac WITH Filters
In both of these pictures I can see the survivors the same way I would before. You might not originally think that, because it LOOKS brighter, but I have not changed the fog, just the color temp and sharpness. I just don't have to hurt my eyes to actually see them with how bad my vision is. I do not have reduced fog, I do not have it overly bright, just the color temp has been changed, so it appears "brighter". The contrast is up purely to accentuate the colors they already have and you can clearly see how nice that looks when looking at Billy's weapon, or the trees.
If I could keep it the darker tone while doing these things I 100% would. I don't do it for advantage, like many others, but because I genuinely stream it every day and I get migraines without filters due to my poor vision. Besides SHARPNESS - this can all be done with monitor settings already. Sharpness will sort of be doable with the addition of the ability to turn off Anti Aliasing next patch. That will help a lot.
I also missed the Blue tone of Mac and Green of Aza, so the filters bring that back.
Here is Gas Heaven.
Aza WITHOUT Filters
Aza WITH Filters
These two maps are the least painful to look at without filters, I have more examples below of the bigger offenders that legitimately require me to D/C if I play them without filters.
R.P.D No Filters (R.P.D lighting has been greatly improved, but I've added the second set of pictures to show you kinda what most rooms looked like for me BEFORE they updated the lighting. I COULD NOT play this map without filters previously.
R.P.D WITHOUT Filters
R.P.D WITH Filters
R.P.D WITHOUT Filters
R.P.D WITH Filters
Eyrie WITHOUT Filters
Eyrie WITH Filters
My Eyrie filters are mostly sharpening/contrast/saturation. Due to being mostly blind in my right eye, if I didn't have this, I could not discern depth perception on this map with the color pallete being so similar.
Borgo WITHOUT Filters
Borgo WITH Filters
Borgo is my most "INTENSE" set of filters, because the entire map is high saturation RED. In fact, I'm actually at a DISADVANTAGE on this map, because I have to use a layered Black & White Filter + Color Blind Filter, so I can have any sort of depth. This leads to scratch marks being much more faded, because I had to remove so much red. The color blind filter is the only thing that lets me even be able to still see them, because their color is altered.
I'd actually like to BEG BHVR to please redo the color pallete for Borgo. It is so painful for me. Like, even not being able to resolve the issues with filters without being at a negative is so frustrating. You re-considered the saturation on Toba (thank you), please reconsider the Borgo pallete. I don't know a SINGLE person that actually likes it.
Before posting this, I wanted to make sure 100% I wasn't just "blowing smoke" Every single one of these filter sets (once the AA change comes through) can be achieved by lots of monitor calibration / in-game colorblind filter / disabled AA. Nvidia Filters just lets me have separate profiles for the maps (3 sets), so I can put them on a hot key and change between them. Again, Reshade does offer certain filters that are possibly a bit "too much", but that is why there are two versions of Reshade, and one is for games that don't allow a filter to give an advantage, the other is just EVERYTHING. Any of the filters that would be "unfair" are simply resolved by only allowing the competitive version of Reshade filters.
There seems to always be some talk of accessibility when it comes to beamers, etc, but so many act like Filters cannot be used for accessibility, but they are FOR ME. I am almost completely blind in my right eye. If I didn't have filters, like I said, I could not play.
As for EQ, good luck. Even console players can technically have EQ options simply by having a good head set that has it built in. Even my headset that is wireless can connect to my phone, and let me create EQ profiles, so that I can use them all the time by pressing a button on the side of my headset even if I'm connected to my console or my PC at the time.
EQ is just about your hardware, and yes there are things like PeaceEQ that let you adjust it through software, there are HUNDREDS of softwares for every headset that let you adjust EQ in someway. Even if it's not done through Software it can still be done through Hardware like I mentioned above. There really isn't a way for them to resolve that. While I do think it's ridiculous that Spirit Players can tweak their audio to the point where I saw one person make it so they could hear the uninjured Meg breathing ACROSS the entire beginning tutorial area, it's just not possible to resolve. I will say, it's very rare to encounter someone that goes to those levels, but it is possible.
The majority of players that use filters do use it for a bit of blur reduction/contrast, but there will always be people that will use stuff for an advantage. The only thing you can do is remove the filters that go too far. Contrast changing is available to EVERYONE. Simply adjusting your monitor / tvs contrast settings can give the same affect. Same for brightness, etc. I have tweaked my NVIDIA filters many times, because Borgo is so painful to look at and I have never once created something with them that I felt was "unfair". Even with the Reshade to Nvidia filter pack, it gives you the filters that are fine. It's just Reshade having certain filters that can exacerbate the issue, but there are two versions of Reshade, because of this exact problem in competitive games. In fact, there were definitely filters I could have used for Borgo to make it look much better and also have the scratch marks bright, but I felt like it was unfair, so I didn't do it...but is it really my fault if the contrast on that map is so painful it feels almost required sometimes?
So, I'd say this is where it boils down to, is DBD a party game or competitive? It seems many people want to say it's a party game, but also complain if people have wacky filters, etc. I personally think it can be both. You can joke around with you friends or run silly meme builds on killer. Or, you can get into competitive and learn really optimized teamwork / macro.
In general, I don't think filters are cheating if they just enhance what is already there. I do hate how ridiculous EQ can be on Spirit, but there really is NOTHING you can do about that.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518953#Comment_3518953
I went against bully sabo squads that did not do a single gen. Annoying but less toxic. Flashlights are much worse impact wise and they annoy your vision and the clicking sounds , the other just denies you a win. But there is starstruck for that one.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518964#Comment_3518964
There are 2 threads in the first page.
There is star struck for beamers, too. Learning proper positioning and counter play to pick up. Agi/Starstruck can net you a few beamer gremlin downs. It is much better for you and your perks to just learn the counter play. Play how you like, I'm just trying to explain to you that you're wasting a perk slot. Unless it's a legitimate accessibility issue due to light sensitivity, you'd be better off with Infectious Fright. Information the entire match, and deters most, but the very experienced gremlins from even going for beams.
Edit: to add on to this, if you want to have more fun, run Hubris, alone. If they beamer save, they're exposed. I used to love running that on Wraith, so if they burned me they were Exposed, it always led to some really silly interactions. There are a bunch of better perks to run that just incentivize the back and forth, but you easily counter the beamers by learning the counter play and get an advantage with other perks.
Even the experienced ones get wrecked by a killer that pretends to look for them / chase them off, then immediately insta 180s and picks. I promise you. As someone that considers themselves very good with beamers/flash bangs, unless I have background player a good killer knows a LOT of counter play and you'll only succeed at 1..maybe 2 if you're lucky. To get that many, though? You're not on gens. You are just hovering and that is free slow down for the killer.
As for sabo, it's the same with beamers in that regard. If all 4 are going for beams and not doing gens, you win. They aren't there to win, they're there to see if they can out mind game the killer and get a save. Experienced killers don't usually give much leeway, so it's a fun challenge. Sabo, though? There is no mind game. Especially depending on map. You pick up, 2 people are hovering with either DH, so they can stay injured with your Starstruck, and they counter your agi starstruck completely, because of breakout haste if they're close. they pre-sabo the two closest hooks, then just hover barely within range for breakout.
Not even talking about a FULL sabo squad, just one very good sabo gremlin is so much more frustrating than a beamer. You can counter the beamer so easily, but sabo, especially depending on the map (and you having no way of knowing their toolbox is for sabo, so you're not gonna bring agi/starstruck, because you see a toolbox, you're gonna bring it if you were gonna bring it). One sabo can cost you the entire game. I've had it absolutely delete all pressure I've had. The same way as Deliverance can in the right situation.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518922#Comment_3518922
Prevents 1 out of 5 tools. By wasting a killer perk slot. Killers give up more than survivors in this scenario.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518933#Comment_3518933
Neither survivors nor killers are prevented from learning flashlights/counter because lightborn is mostly used when lobbies bring 3-4 of them. Not to mention that it is rarely used in higher ranks. Bringing a single or two flashlights will not get a killer to put lightborn on most of the times. It disables the mechanic at a high cost too. One perk slot less. It's not without a cost for the killer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3518935#Comment_3518935
It's never a gen simulator. As I said before there are many ways beside flashlights to counter killers. Sabotage, body-blocking , pallet drop save etc. It does not prevent a save from a survivor.
Even if killer is using a lightborn there are ways to prevent the hook.
I'm gonna say this in the nicest way.
You do NOT want survivors that run beamers to be sabo goblins. Like, sabo is so much more annoying than beamers. You'll probably say, "no it isn't", but I promise you, a good group of people taking turns with break out / sabo? You're never hooking a single person and there isn't much counter play to that other than just mass slugging everyone.
I don't mind a sabo here or there, but when I have someone constantly sabo every hook, or I"m having a rough match and they sabo my first down? That's mald inducing. Beamers I can easily counter.
As for your point about pretending you don't have it, then staring at them. Most of the time they know you have it, they're just confirming you have it, and honestly, they aren't "shocked" when you stare into their eyes as they go for a beam, they're just like,....cool..I guess I'm just gonna do gens now, so I maybe get to a killer that wants interaction with me instead of me pushing gens fast and stealthing all match.
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Beamer saves are not toxic. They are 98% of the time very easy to counter, unless you're running Shadowborn, then like 96%. People last second swap, because killers bring lightborn or franklins when there isn't even a beamer in the lobby anymore, but "just in case". It gets tiring to not be able to attempt a flash bang save multiple games in a row and just becomes a gen simulator.
Lightborn does not need a buff. If anything it should make blinds "darken" your screen instead of brighten to help with sensory problems and be only partial immunity with the auras.
It would be extremely rare to run into a group of people good enough to duo/triple beamers against Lightborn. Even when Lightborn wasn't 100% it still led to massive snowballs, because people still tried for beams, even if they failed most of the time, because they couldn't coordinate good enough.
How about instead of making survivor a predrop pallet / gen simulator, we stop removing mechanics from them. If you want people to stop "rushing your gens", don't delete something that is very easily counterable. Even in the open, simply running up to pick up and instantly doing a 180 deals with most saves unless running background player and if they're running it, you now know to be ready for it.
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I've been waiting for two years for the top to this outfit to come back, because I had IRL stuff going on and didn't manage to get it.
Nea Karlsson: Dead Surf
Can anyone at BHVR at least confirm or not - will the Nea fit ever come back, so I can get the only Nea piece I don't own? Have you guys considered bringing back singular non-set pieces or having a charms tab for unowned stuff we could spend shards/cells on to get?
I own pretty much every Nea cosmetic in the game, but that top and I have the head/legs to it.
I've waited over two years for this to return, I've seen all other outfits from that rift, but not this one.
The Huntress: Miss Pussens
Also, I was very new to the game when these Huntress items were in the rift and I actually bought the rift and it ended shortly after, but I was so new to it, I didn't realize I was making a mistake paying for something that was almost over.
This is my favorite Huntress head piece, and I'll never have it :/
The Huntress: Lacquered Wono Ax
Also, I know people care less about charms, but I'm a collector. Because of not knowing how the rift worked, I don't have Claud's Chibi, or the Brass Knuckles, two of my favorite charms. Claud is also one of my mains and it makes me so very sad that I'll never have it.
I want my Claud charm so bad, it's the most adorable thing. As someone on the Spectrum, Claud really means a lot to me. Like, she means a lot to me, and anything I can have of hers makes me happier.
When they mentioned the "collections" tab during the anniversary...I was really hoping when they said charms, etc that it would mean that perhaps we could use shards or something for previous charms and I got so happy only to be let down when I saw it.
Here's a link where someone was keeping track of stuff like this, if anyone is curious on stuff that hasn't returned / been confirmed exclusive: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/383893/list-of-every-old-rift-cosmetic-not-added-to-the-store-with-pictures
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
I can literally feel the disappointment in that "I mindgamed her!!!!" reaction.
also RIP sky billy. It was fun while it laster :(
It truly hurts.I play Oni, and Bubba and they have this same interaction at pallets, but it doesn't bother me even 1/10th as much as Billy, because it already takes so much work to mind game tiles with him.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511532#Comment_3511532
And Demo's problem too.
Forgive me, I know it's a Demo and Bubba issue, too. It was just the patch notes specifically saying it fixed it for Billy, so I wanted to respond to it in terms of Billy, but yes Collision issues like this are very frustrating for all parties.
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@Lynnziezie said:
A very well put together post about the problems of this map. If I had to be honest, I thought the photo of the collisions "bugfix" was a photoshopped meme - because what doesn't billy collide with on this map?
As stated, the non collision on said rocks was a non issue of the rocks due to the sheer size they were. You would have to force a survivor to MAJORLY overcommit to even get a curve here. And even then, without lopro chains, as you said in your original post, predropping the pallet completely makes these rocks safe.
I really hope BHVR don't continue to address and "fix" slideable/non collision tiles. That would truly kill yet another dimension of billy (previously skybilly) which would further cripple this killer. Yet Blight and Oni would not be penalised, as they can still slide around any object and hug tech a lot more tiles without much an issue as billy.
BHVR, pls fix Eyrie of Crows - but not in this way.
I agree. It seems like every fix that comes through for Collision related to Billy is just further turning him into a back rev only killer. I don't want to be boring to face, but if I get stuck on everything, why would I even play him? If Blight and Oni are able to slide on just about everything, why is Billy punished so much when he requires so much more mechanical skill to even get a 1/4th of the results Blight does.
Please, I beg...whoever is in the balance team / bug team that keeps making changes like this for Billy, perhaps see if it's actually an issue first? Even with smooth collision on these rocks, there is a good chance Billy is getting 4 outted if survivors play safe, and it did not give him an insane advantage, just a little faster of a down if the survivor over committed. Just as Syn cars are. If you don't over commit, you're fine, if you do ,you're dead.
Every killer in the game has counter play that survivors have to learn. If people complain about stuff like this with Billy, they simply don't vs him enough and do not understand his mechanics.
So many things over the last year or so have been painful for Billy.
- Removing Sky Billy (Not Space Billy), simply letting us have air momentum when we drop off of something at a fast speed. Instead we now drop like a dead weight.
- Chests collision changed, so we get stuck on them now making Crane on Ormond so much harder to curve
- Speaking of Ormond - The snow piles. I used to love doing drift Billy on Ormond and basically playing bumper cars through the snow piles. Now I just bonk. It wasn't an insane threat, it was just enjoyable fun and easy to dodge.
- Low hanging branches and wires on maps like Badham or certain shacks that literally just stop Billy in his tracks when they shouldn't even have collision
- Now the rocks on Eyrie
There are so many more than this, but these are the few that immediately pop in my head, because they upset me so much.
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I feel like this must be a bug. The event offerings are already so rare in the blood web and most other smaller events give all survivors the points for completed gens. Very odd.
I wish we could get confirmation if this is intended.
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I also didn't receive mine. I just assumed that my e-mail messed up, but I did sign up with two emails just in case, because I've had issues with DBD emails in the past. Neither account received the charm.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3457616#Comment_3457616
We're back to square one. You'd want to reward my casual playstyle by giving me tryhard survivors instead of a million monthly bp. If I only look at the killer-side of this proposal, I could only stay in the casual mmr by playing in a nasty manner, and trying to kill with as few hooks as I can.
But I admit, one of Seal's post made me realize that I'm only able to evaluate one half of this proposal, as I don't play survivor. If I assume he's right and his system also encourages survivors to interact with the killer instead of efficiently pushing gens, I could imagine it being not terrible. Thus, my stance on the matter changed from 'definite no' into a 'hopeful maybe'. Hell, at this point I'd even be supportive if I had any problem with the current matchmaking. But I feel the current system rewards my casual approach nicely, and it's mainly sweaty tryhards who complain about it.
As someone that plays a lot of both sides.....I already like interacting with the killer more, but this would make me REALLY want more interaction. Even on days where I'm just kinda chilling and doing gens, I'd actively seek them out for chase and go for more altruistic plays to protect my teammates.
As for your reward of harder players. Whether Seal has said it or not, I would assume based on previous conversations we've had that rewards would be adjusted. Perhaps you have a monthly LEVEL you have to reach to get the monthly reward of 1mil BP and that's tracked kind of like your Devotion level. Every match you get a certain amount of hooks, you'd continue to increase this level until you hit the cap for 1 mil. Kind of like how we used to have rank 20-1, it'd be like that, but the numbers would just be an indicator of what RANKS are right now. Currently based on how well you do in the match you either safety pip, +1, +2 and this system could still easily do that with a much more relaxed "score card" in the background to assure that even if you're not the ABSOLUTE BEST TOP TIER gamer, you hit rank 1 the way you're supposed to for your reward.
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@VadersRage6 said:
I just wish the devs would let us know if these bugs will be fixed in the next update especially wesker because of the event and I want flans on him but who knows there willing to let us know about singularity buffs coming but no information on these bugs getting resolved especially for wesker
Yeah, while I am happy they are communicating more, I am surprised that they haven't just up front acknowledged that server desync is a huge problem right now. If all they did over the next year was balance maps, work on server desync/stability, and balance perks, I'd be so happy. Without Resilience I will almost always get hit through the window even if I've fully cleared it unless I manage 3 or 4 steps away first. Honestly, I'm West Coast and that was what i was used to all the time if I played on East Coast, but now I experience that on my own servers.
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Thanks for all of the responses! It appears that a lot of people in my Twitter replies are also experiencing this and it's having the exact outcome you'd expect. When not visually seeing the killer slow down/lag, people are basically insta downed, because they've been trained that Legion must force fatigue first, and they can't hear that happen if they aren't in front of them.
I agree, it might be related to server desync/lag. Over the last year it has gotten so much worse and it's not uncommon to see the animation bug for Wesker/Nemesis/Blight, etc. It's much rarer on Legion, perhaps, because of the type of animation it is and doesn't require instant precision like the others, it's more gradual. Whatever happened in the last update is causing A LOT of problems, but Wesker was very obvious with it, because he moves so fast upon activating his power and the server just could not handle it, I'd assume.
No hate to the dev team, but I really wish we could start focusing on server stability / desync. I wish beamers weren't given a buffer to make up for it and instead the core issue was addressed, because it PLAGUES the rest of the game. The amount of times I'm stunned nowhere near a pallet, or unable to drop a pallet, because I never receive the prompt, etc. It seems to be much worst for some than others. For example, I was never able to use Dead Hard after it's original nerf from a distance perk, because I'd have to spam the button 5 times for it to recognize that I had pressed the input. Made it unreliable / unusuable, because if it DIDN'T make me spam it 5 times, I wasted it, etc.
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@HugTheHag said:
It's a visual glitch ! On their side the killer cancels Frenzy (it's why you can hear Julie's grunt and see the Legion slowing down) but the animation from the survivor perspective is still the Frenzy one.
Still very weird and seemingly out of nowhere !
It doesn't seem to be linked to particular cosmetics, I've seen clips of default Frank still looking as if he's in frenzy.
Yeah, the biggest issue I see is that it is also a SOUND bug. So, if the Legion is LoS when going into fatigue, you do not hear the fatigue sound and you still hear frenzy panting and assume you're completely safe. This seems to be a very common bug since the last update and definitely needs to be addressed.
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@mikewelk said:
Nothing is perfect and that'll never change. By perfect I mean the developers think it's the best thing to do to suit the wide range of skill in the playerbase. The number one thing you should worry about in a multiplayer game is matchmaking, otherwise you'll lose a ton of players. Fortnite had that issue when people started building bases whenever they got shot and it became unfun standing no chance against opponents. MMR is at such a bad stage that I only play whenever my friend plays because my solo queue teammates lack any game sense whatsoever.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GE4CS9GS83ZP/zrzut-ekranu-2023-06-11-132655.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4G61TZ0QARFT/zrzut-ekranu-2023-06-11-132715.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OUB7LBRE3TH5/zrzut-ekranu-2023-06-11-133524.png
I feel this on another level. I primarily solo queue when I play survivor. I've always enjoyed the challenge. However, it's no longer a challenge and it's just rage inducing. I find myself getting angry at my teammates when I'm normally such a very chill person, but I stop myself, because I know, like your screen shots, they probably have a couple hundred hours and are doing their best. It's not that they're bad, they're inexperienced, but I am TIRED of having those as my teammates. I shouldn't feel required to play with friends to actually enjoy the game. Even without comms, just having 1 or 2 good teammates that I know who join me sometimes is a night and day difference. Just knowing I have teammates on the same skill level. I used to get this so often with grade based match making, but I rarely do now. It often leads to someone getting hard tunneled at 5 gens, then I live in a 3 v 1 for the rest of the match. Since this scenario is so common, survivors tend to hard predrop pallets and push gens as quick as possible, so when I play chill as killer to give them a fun match, I'm often blown away how little interaction they want with the killer. They're unbelievably happy to never even make contact with me and can't understand why that is so unenjoyable. I miss versing good survivors when I played killer that wanted interaction. Did I get wrecked a lot? Sure, but you know what? I had fun chases and I GOT BETTER.
@YOURFRIEND said:
This is rather selfish of me, but I like the current MMR because it's very easy to game. When I start going up against super tough teams I put on a chill build, two hook everyone and tank my MMR. I don't want to have to struggle every game with no recourse.
That's the thing, though, the same can be done with this system if you want more relaxed games. Focus on going for 12 hooks, run a chill build with no slow down and just see how many you can get. If you don't get 12 hooks, you get easier groups, if you do, then you might have a match where you get harder survivors, but continue your relaxed philosophy and you will go back down easily. I play the same way. I like good survivors, and want a challenge, but unless they ultra rush gens, or hard body block with off the record, I focus on 12 hooks. Do you know what happens right now if I don't 4k? I go back into baby hell where I verse extremely inexperienced survivors and it's misery. I'm tired of the average game people people that just predrop ever pallet and don't look behind them. I want survivors who know how to play, and want to greed pallets, so we can mind game each other. I will still go for my 12 hooks, though and I"ll end up close to average survivors if I don't want to sweat at all, but at least they won't be golden Feng with 98 hrs, because I didn't 4k for one match.
@Seal_Massacre said:
So camping and slugging isn't going to be punished enough in this formula to make you drop MMR to get easier players. You're overthinking it. Since it's still a strategy you won't be rewarded as many points as a player that tries to 12 hook. With that being said most people that camp and slug and get 6 or less hooks would stay in whatever bracket they would be in and gain little to no MMR during the trial. Would make it extremely hard to climb having that playstyle. Now there would be huge incentives on your placement. Like Auric Cells, Iri Shards, and BP. Hell could even just do limited cosmetics per season. So it would not be smart to camp and tunnel with this new system.
This right here. The people that do nothing but slug and bleed people out will stay in low brackets. Sure, newer people might face them every so often, but as they get better, they will leave them at the bottom of the MMR ladder, so they start going against better killers that actually know how to mind game, etc.
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@Seal_Massacre said:
I will never stop saying this to killers that just hold W around pallets. "JUST BREAK THE DAMN PALLET!" And you don't need BL if you just run Brutal strength. I agree with this perk being changed to an anti bloodlust perk. I ran brutal strength and Legion for their month and I think I underestimated how good it actually is. By the time I broke the pallet I was still in chase with them. Most of the time you break the pallet you naturally lose the BL and lose the chase because the base break isn't fast enough. I always break the safe pallets. Knowing what pallets are safe and which ones aren't come with experience. 100% agree with this change too.
That last part is important. "Knowing what pallets are safe and which ones aren't comes with experience". Knowing when it's a tile you should mind game, when it's one you should insta-break, when it's one you shouldn't break, etc...all comes with experience. I always suggest M1 killers for newer players, because they teach them to rely on their mind games and become better in chase. It teaches them what pallets will waste more time than its worth, etc. I'm not saying killers should quickly break unsafe pallets, etc, but knowing when they should break is something that people have stopped even learning over the last year. Same for survivors. They've stopped learning to loop and just rely on an abundance of resources on overstacked maps and they get away with it, because they can. I consider people who SHIFTW to each pallet --> predrop --> don't look behind them --> ShiftW to next pallet --> predrop to be as boring as a Bubba face camping me in the basement at 5 gens. Sure, a play style, but it's boring, miserable and makes the game just un-fun. Brutal is also a perk I pretty much never take off on certain killers. If I fail to use my power as Wesker, while recharging, I'll brutal break the pallet, then have my power ready to go. It's all about time management and unfortunately that seems to be lost on newer players.