Seraphor
Seraphor
About
- Username
- Seraphor
- Joined
- Visits
- 9,011
- Last Active
Comments
-
If the changes go through, I'll finally go back to my old faithful, Inner Healing.
The game was perfectly playable before we got CoH you know.
-
@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380162#Comment_3380162
If we are just killling the current meta, we jump right into the next stale meta. Rather than killing the perk we should give the meta a bigger variety. Buff more perks to make the meta unique. If you have more strong perks you will se a bigger variety of loadouts. And a perk being in the meta for years is fine if you change it in a way that makes it more fair.
For Dead Hard all it needed was it to not work against insta down powers and maybe a slightly longer animation so it's easier to counter at pallets. Sprint Burst and Lithe are also in the meta for a very long time. Do these also need to go? I don't think so!
When the current meta is...
Perk A: 90% use rate
All other perks: 1-5% use rate
...then buffing a couple of perks to make them a bit more useful isn't going to have as much of an impact as heavily nerfing Park A, is it?
-
Ironically, this midchapter might actually get me running DH more.
I tend to intentionally avoid the meta, I actively avoid DH, and I like running interesting combo builds.
I particularly like my hook rescue build, of We'll Make It, Renewal, Kindred/Empathy and [insert Exhaustion that's not DH]
Well guess what, the new DH fits in there perfectly now.
-
Dead Hard certainly needed a nerf, but I do think this may have been a bit to big of a nerf. Much like when they buried Ruin in 6.1
It could be better if instead of activating after an unhook, and then deactivating once used. If performing unhooks granted you tokens, allowing you to bank DH uses for later. And in addition to unhooks, maybe include protection hits in there as well.
So: Rescuing a survivor off the hook, or taking a protection hit, grants you a token. Each time you use DH, you consume a token.
That could work better.
-
@bluekaiser07 said:
I am not a DH user but 0.5sec effect is too low since you can only activate it only after unhooking (I'm guessing it is once per unhook?). Imagine every injured survivor competing to get that 1 hook save for just 0.5sec endurance. lol😆
Then they die because It is not even a guaranteed protection from killer hit. And also don't forget to consider the latency.
Maybe Dead Hard will be dead and hard...to use. Who knows...
DH has always been 0.5s, the time hasn't been nerfed.
-
Rather than Self Care in a bottle, it's Botany Knowledge in a bottle. Sucks for the selfish players, likely still meta for SWF. One CoH is worth more than 4 Botany Knowledges.
Shadowstep was always a great boon perk btw.
-
You guys said that the last time it was nerfed, and yet here we are.
-
I admit I tend to bias slightly towards killer, but generally I have a fairly balanced view, and have been accused of being a Survivor Main™ on many occasions.
That said, I notice a significant difference in the attitudes of those who do seem to identify as a Survivor/Killer Main™...
Killers mains after killer nerfs: "Oh well, guess we put up with the same ######### for another 3-4 months. Game is survivor sided as always."
Survivor mains after survivor nerfs: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE *throws tantrum* "I'M QUITTING FOR REAL THIS TIME"
-
You know, the game 2 years ago, when you started, was not what it was 2 years before that either.
At what point would you like the game to have stopped changing? When the killer could bodyblock the hook and prevent rescues? When flashlight blinds were instantaneous? When maps had literally infinite loops?
-
If you were here before CoH, you'd realise what an impact it had on the game.
The best healing perk before CoH was Inner Strength (now Inner Healing)
Inner Strength consumed one totem and gave you one heal, and this was efficient!
Giving an entire group of survivors the independence to heal themselved for the cost of one perk out of sixteen, indefinitely, single-handedly overturned the entire healing landscape, and essentially deleted 'hit and run' killer playstyles.
Every successive nerf to CoH's healing speed since has been like pissing in the wind compared to the fact that survivors simply don't need to work together to stay healthy anymore.
-
For the skill check?
-
But longer healing time = more skill checks per heal = more positive heal boost vs negative heal regression.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379292#Comment_3379292
Yeah I get the complaints on the whole 3 gen thing, I've just never had issues breaking 3 gens even in solo queue so this felt like more of a skill issue. That said, with almost every slow down perk hitting the chopping block people will still probably use these just because there aren't many options left.
PR literally got nuked. So even with you playing completely fair as a killer your best case scenario is 4 procs from PR..that's it. Ouch that's bad.
As a killer I never use these perks anyway. Jolt seems to be far superior for me, and it requires you to be present in the area you're pressuring anyway.
Jolt + aura and/or chase perks does me well.
-
@Blueberry said:
Overall very good changes. Glad they finally listened to the community.
I think the gen kick perks were a little overkill though, I don't see many people using them now.
PR nerf was also a bit weird. The only reason its usage was so high was because they nerfed everything else so it just got defaulted as one of the few options left. It's a dead perk now for sure though, no one's going to use that. I very much like the concept they were going for in rewarding healthy game play and it not working for people just tunneling, but the issue is the perk isn't good enough to warrant the downside. The reward for playing fair needs to match the cost of in fact playing fair. Like I generally almost never tunnel so this perk should look great to me since I'll get its full value but it doesn't, it looks really bad even if I get its full value because that full value is very, very low.
Finally I'm really happy with the flashlight changes. I've been saying how items directly countering killer powers is an outdated feature that they themselves have stated they didn't want in the game years ago. However, that Hag change...like what? This is actually a huge nerf to Hag, who is already one of the least played killers in the game. She needs a good buff now after this.
The gen kick perks are literally the biggest gripe about killers at the moment, their ability to hold down a 3 gen with no real competition due to the CoB/Overcharge/NtH combo. So this is the ideal killer perk nerf.
I'm also a bit perplexed about Pain res though, this still isn't the strongest regression perk, and it already has the Scourge hook requirement. I would have sooner seen the regression value reduced before this.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379257#Comment_3379257
Which gets nullified by taking SB.
Without DH, we´ll see shorter chases. But survivors will start running earlier. So killers will either chase and take longer before the match considers it a chase or they will constantly break chases. Which would favorise rushing gens.
Maybe i´m to pessimistic. But i don´t look forward to the healing nerf.
Survivors playing more cautiously instead of in your face teabagging with body blocks and DH every few seconds? I don't see a downside...
This is what I've always been advocating for as a survivor. Less reckless, aggressive survivor play, that just tilts killers into playing scummy and results in either bully plays or hook snowballs due to reckless cocky behaviour.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379068#Comment_3379068
I think we had this before... healing nerf when killers struggled with gens.
This is truly a Deja Vu experience and will just end like the last time: Everyone gen rushes.
When gens already take 90 seconds, there's not much scope to increase them that much further. By prioritising gen rushing over healing, survivors leave themselves more vulnerable (doubly so with the limitations to DH), therefore it's up to the killer to capitalise on this, apply pressure to survivors, and slow down gens that way instead of relying on passive slowdown.
This is the correct way to do things. We're in the balancing mess we are right now because of power creep. Survivors getting far too many efficient healing tools, and killers getting far too many efficient slowdown tools. This rolls things back to a less complicated state of the game.
-
@Peachblow said:
These weren't even major issues. CoH was more of an annoyance than anything (to both killer and survivors equally). The amount of times a survivor would run around aimlessly trying to find a totem when they could be on a gen is quite staggering. It only inconvenienced a killer slightly having to snuff it out. Don't want a survivor to heal? Stay on them.
Dead Hard was in a good place where it was. It was incredibly easy to bait out, but most killers are just too "trigger happy" and wouldn't learn how to counter it. Most survivors don't even know how to use Dead Hard well enough for it to be a viable choice in their keep.
CoH single-handedly rewrote the healing landscape, deleting hit and run from killers playbooks, and relegating previously good healing perks such as Inner Strength to F tier.
This is honestly the best balance change they could have possibly implemented.
Heavily nerfing the meta gen regression, in tandem with heavily nerfing the healing meta, as these are complementary, each one undoing the primary objective progress of the other side.
Most importantly, is limiting survivors abilities to heal themselves, as healing speed is an afterthought when you're already halving the healing burden by being totally independent. Honestly, with all the other changes involved, they probably didn't even need to increase healing time from 16s to 24s. 18s or a nice round 20s may have been enough.
My one real concern however, is that by extending healing time, you indirectly buff healing-slowdown, like Sloppy Butcher and Coulrophobia. After all, 50% of 24 is a lot more than 50% of 16. So these perks really should have seen adjustments as well.
-
@LordRegal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377799#Comment_3377799
Really crazy crash if my Internet went down for no more than a minute for trying to play in a big name streamer's lobby, and when I rejoined the lobby it crashed my Internet again for two minutes - that's really impressive that the crash was that strong.
...I feel really bad for their support department, the guy I reported my incident to seemed really eager to get information and help figure things out. Feels like upper corporate is walking over their efforts pretty hard.
I mean, it's entirely possible that their evidence really doesn't show any indication of an IP leak or DDoS, which would be a failing in the way they gather their evidence, or the DDoSers are successfully hiding their tracks.
As someone is the scientific field, you get a lot of negative data that simply doesn't give you any conclusions. Which can either be because there isn't a conclusion to be had, or because your data is of terrible quality.
That said, pattern recognition would suggest that targeted 'crashes' like this simply aren't that likely. But if they're not present to collect the information to determine that pattern, i.e. they don't see the streamers getting DDoSed when it happens and just rely on a handful of second hand accounts, the evidence of that pattern may not present itself.
-
Oh no, there was a crash that exclusively targeted streamers.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377765#Comment_3377765
Because it doesn’t matter how many incentives you give me, if the survivors are super immersed whenever someone is hooked, and I’m not likely to find anyone if I leave the hooked survivor, then it’s still not worth it for me to leave the hooked survivor. And this is double true when the survivors are using voice comms and are relaying my location to each other.
Many people like to pretend that a killer can leave a hooked survivor, patrol the map, and they will 100% find a different survivor to chase. This is not a realistic expectation, so if camping is going to be heavily nerfed, then there needs to be some mechanic that allows the killer to reliably get in a chase with a different survivor.
There are a wide range of info/detection perks with which to locate survivors. Unfortunately it requires losing one of your four slowdown perks.
-
Holy hyperbole batman.
ALL killers are perfectly viable, I still win and lose with most of the killers I play, and that includes the likes of Ghostface and Pig.
Just because you don't win every game doesn't mean a killer is not viable.
-
@Davenport916 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377163#Comment_3377163
That's why we have them make it not mediocre. The ptb is there for a reason
How's that worked out lately?
-
I wouldn't necessarily mind a 2 killer chapter if instead of survivors (we have too many as it is) we got additional Generic survivor perks.
However killer powers are some of the more complex things to develop, and a mediocre second killer power would be worse than no second killer power.
-
@thrawn3054 said:
An Fov slider wouldn't make any sense. Everyone would just set it to the max.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376988#Comment_3376988
- Some players suffer from motion sickness with a narrow FoV, they either can't play killer, or they have to run Shadowborn as a necessity, essentially robbing them of a perk slot because Shadowborn is a terrible perk.
- Similarly, some players (probably even fewer than the above though) suffer from motion sickness with a FP FoV that's too big, these people cannot run Shadowborn, because then they get motion sickness, so simply raising the static FoV is't a solution, there needs to be a choice, and one that doesn't consume a perk slot.
- A narrow FoV leads to a high level of disorientation whether you suffer from motion sickness or not, playing killer is incredibly disorienting, viewing the world through a set of binoculars strapped to your eye sockets. This is what enables survivors to literally hide on your toes, or spin you around. While survivors have become used to these tactics that doesn't mean these "techs" are an essential part of survivor gameplay, any more than the old instant flashlight blinds or hook facecamping used to be. This is a QoL issue that killers have had to simply 'put up with' since the game's inception.
Simply "spotting a survivor out of the corner of your eye" is the last concern for killers, you don't expect to be able to spot survivors more easily with a wider FoV, it's about disorientation, whether in close-quarters with a survivor, or because of very real issue of motion sickness preventing play at all.
While this is likely, in order to serve as an accessibility option, it needs to be an option. So that those who are sensitive to wide FoV's can choose a narrower option.
90, 95 and 100 degrees would make decent options.
-
@foods said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376598#Comment_3376598
not that im surprised, but pretending like this isnt providing any sort of advantage is a little bit silly.
being able to tell what exactly is going on through all of the noise layers going on is a pretty big deal. being able to bypass all of this and just have a clear visual indicator of how near a killer is is an obvious advantage.
"At the moment, there is no equivalent on the Killer side, though it would no doubt be nice to have. When it comes to accessibility, we would rather get these features out sooner so the people who need them can use them than wait until we have other features to 'balance' it for both sides."
this is a hilarious paragraph... "wouldn't it be nice if we considered balance when making changes to the game? dang, too bad we dont."
Outside of the very specific scenario of the deafening sound of a sacrificed survivor being dragged up by the entity drowning out a faint terror radius sound, I can't think of any other place where you can't quite clearly hear the terror radius.
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377101#Comment_3377101
Are you sure? I wasn’t aware of the outfit slots and I am pretty sure i checked for them specifically when they added the perk/build slots..
100% sure, as I remember immediately putting Dredge's Mannequin skin (which I got on release) onto a second outfit loadout.
-
@tippy2k2 said:
Oh good, a FOV thread, I can finally ask this (and I swear I'm not being a Judgemental B, I legit don't get it)
What is the accessibility fix that a FOV slider would give? I can see why you'd want one for gameplay reasons (larger FOV gives you more to see so you might catch a survivor out of the corner of your eye you otherwise missed) but I don't get how that is an accessibility issue.
- Some players suffer from motion sickness with a narrow FoV, they either can't play killer, or they have to run Shadowborn as a necessity, essentially robbing them of a perk slot because Shadowborn is a terrible perk.
- Similarly, some players (probably even fewer than the above though) suffer from motion sickness with a FP FoV that's too big, these people cannot run Shadowborn, because then they get motion sickness, so simply raising the static FoV is't a solution, there needs to be a choice, and one that doesn't consume a perk slot.
- A narrow FoV leads to a high level of disorientation whether you suffer from motion sickness or not, playing killer is incredibly disorienting, viewing the world through a set of binoculars strapped to your eye sockets. This is what enables survivors to literally hide on your toes, or spin you around. While survivors have become used to these tactics that doesn't mean these "techs" are an essential part of survivor gameplay, any more than the old instant flashlight blinds or hook facecamping used to be. This is a QoL issue that killers have had to simply 'put up with' since the game's inception.
Simply "spotting a survivor out of the corner of your eye" is the last concern for killers, you don't expect to be able to spot survivors more easily with a wider FoV, it's about disorientation, whether in close-quarters with a survivor, or because of very real issue of motion sickness preventing play at all.
-
@ad19970 said:
I would argue that giving killers a bigger field of view is also a very small buff to them. It can help find survivors more easily, for example.
Meanwhile the visual heartbeat will not buff survivors in any way, at least if implemented properly. That's why I would argue the devs are a bit hesitant with adding a field of view slider.
But I do hope that they add this to killer at some point, it would be very nice. As compensation, they could increase survivors crouch speed slightly.
While this is true, it's also the sort of 'very small buff' that killers are probably due, now that solo survivor has been brought closer to SWF level via HUD action icons.
@not_Queef said:
A FOV slider isn't going to happen because the game is balanced around killers having a specific field of view. It has to be the same for everyone.
A wider default FOV would be very welcome, though.
We already have a range of FoV's due to the existence of Shadowborn. And using Shadowborn also comes with it's own downsides, as the wider FoV it gives you also comes with a wider angle to be blinded from, which is part of the reason why it doesn't really deserve to take up a perk slot.
It's a weak perk, it doesn't actually help you out all that much as a killer, and that's why the only killers who run it are those who are more adversely affected by getting disoriented, such as Blight, Billy and Oni.
So I see no reason why a reasonable FoV slider shouldn't be valid, say a choice between 90, 95 and 100 degrees, complete with the blinding angle trade-off.
After all, the whole reason for making FoV an accessibility option, is that some players are sensitive to FoV's that are either too big OR too small, and get motion sickness from it.
-
I don't think predictions have ever paid off, but as for what I would prefer; A, B or C, in that order.
-
I've had games with survivor DC's that have been turned around. Hell I had one crazy game where two survivors were downed almost instantly, took their chances and died on first hook, and the other survivor and I managed to repair all the gens and escape via tag-teaming and running the killer for minutes at a time until we lost them.
These games are best ones, because succeeding against terrible odds is far more impactful than an easy 4-man escape against a baby killer. These are the games that stick in your memory.
-
Not here to invalidate your feelings, but I can say I know where you're coming form, and a lot of this is down to attitude and expectations.
- "Chases take too long / gens are too fast. Every single game I play the first chase always costs me 2 gens."
- This is actually par for the course and to be expected. The killer has the ability to snowball, while the survivors objectives get harder. So it's entirely OK for the survivors to have a strong start, if you play killer well you have every opportunity to reign it back in once it gets to the last couple gens and survivors start to be able to be eliminated. I don't deny it's 'demoralising' but once you realise that it's not as big of a set back as it 'feels' then it's much less demoralising.
- Don't expect to win every match, learn to lose.
- This goes for killer and survivor, doubly so survivor because you're much likely to be killed regardless of the outcome of the match in general. Learn to accept the 3K as a win, and learn to not get triggered when you lose. I've learned that most of my 'fun' games don't depend on me winning, and in fact, a lot of the games that I 'win' end up being the most miserable, because there's nothing fun about completely destroying survivors you clearly outclass.
The rest I mostly agree with, with the exception that I think players put too much stock in map design, these are equally as likely to screw over the survivor in the right circumstances, and confirmation bias leads people to not recognise when they've been granted the advantage. Maps could be designed better in some cases, but it's not a huge issue, again it's more of a perception thing.
- "Chases take too long / gens are too fast. Every single game I play the first chase always costs me 2 gens."
-
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375681#Comment_3375681
It's psuedo-random. The auto-buy focuses on buying the nearest items to the center prioritizing the cheapest cost. If you want to stack up on green or above addons, this won't help you that much.
Which is typically what I do when a web doesn't have anything shiny in it anyway. Cheapest route to the next one.
-
Even if individual node clicking speed isn't increased, instant bloodweb completion even if random is still a huge bonus. I can manually fill the webs where I want something specific, and when I get a web that doesn't offer any significantly enticing options I can 'skip' it quickly.
-
Why would they do that, when it serves as incentive to buy additional characters?
And if they're time limited cosmetics, you're hardly going to 'choose something else', just in case you eventually end up unlocking that character.
-
Each lobby dodge should just reduce the maximum timer. This would highlight backfilled lobbies and either start the game quicker, or ultimately encourage players to just ditch the lobby entirely and queue for a new one.
So if one person drops and another joins, it starts a 50s countdown, if it happens again, 40s countdown, etc.
-
My double Calm Doctor build agrees with this very much.
But in general, no. Not every perk is going to be meta on every killer, just as Thanatophobia is most effective on Legion and Plague, and BBQ is most effective on high mobility killers, terror radius perks are most effective on killers that use their terror radius, such as Doctor and Legion, and as such, buffing terror radius perks would make them OP on these killers.
I can't imagine how oppressive my anti-healing and anti-skill check builds would be if I could combine multiples of these perks together. Hell I could combine both builds into one. No repairs and no healing, if you're within 80 meters of me. Survivors wouldn't stand a chance.
Only ones I can really see being changed would be Furtive Chase (really a terror radius reducing perk, so doesn't really belong here anyway) and Dark Devotion, which shouldn't be contingent on the Obsession.
-
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375008#Comment_3375008
I agree that overall Nurse operating outside the rules and bottlenecking way too much when it comes to especially the weaker killers is a core issue. Though, reducing her and a few other outliers being so removed from everyone else by changing a perk in a way that realistically affects only them, doesn't seem like a bad place to start.
Now, that being said. I don't see how a moderate cooldown would hurt 'weaker killers'.
If a survivor is close enough to tap the gen within the cooldown time they were already close enough to have their aura read. Assuming that a killer wants to read the auras of survivors near a gen is to chase them in order to hit and then down them, the cooldown would be entirely inconsequential since they will spend the cooldown time in chase.
The scenario is also not really that niche. Optimally, three gens are active and being progressed and none is regressing. - Realistically, 3-5 gens are active. Of those, 1-2 gens are being progressed and 1-4 gens have progress and are either sitting at that progress or are regressing. This is a lot of gens to kick within 20 seconds of each other. And yes, you're absolutely right: gens don't usually spawn that close together. But precisely because of that regular killers would not be affected: by the time they make it to the next gen the cooldown is over.
"Now, that being said. I don't see how a moderate cooldown would hurt 'weaker killers'."
Aura's aren't fool proof, and survivors can play aggressively.
Survivors can hide in lockers, use Distortion or OtR, or simply hide behind the generator.
A survivor could tap the gen immediately after the killer has kicked it, maybe to prevent any possible Call of Brine for example. The killer can and should be able to then immediately kick it again to punish the instant-tap with the additional 2.5% regression, which its designed for. But now the aura from NtH has been wasted.
This could easily be a troll tactic from aggressive survivor bully squads to remove this perk from play, and make instant and mid-chase gen taps meta again, because the NtH user is damned if they do and damned if they don't, either use the aura or regress the gen, but not both.
A survivor tapping the gen should face all the logical consequences of doing so, which primarily includes allowing the killer to kick it again.
The fact that certain very high speed killers can reach and kick multiple gens in a short amount of time is a problem with those killers, and causes many, many issues besides this one perk. Treat the cause, not the symptom.
-
@CakeDuty said:
Hard agree. Something like giving 1000 survival points when a gen gets done (5000 for all 5 gens getting done + 5000 for escaping). Maybe everyone gets about 500 Altruism points when someone gets safely unhooked. Just something so it doesn't feel like a competition between survivors to get bp, and actually have it be a team effort.
While we're at it, I think it should be easier for survivors to pip as well. As killer I can reliable always double pip, if games go amazingly or a single pip of things go ok. As survivor it feels impossible to double pip and even in games I've done well, I barely pip, cus I'm either being chased all game, being the gen jockey, someone gets tunneled out, someone gets camped, someone takes all the hunook etc. It feels like a competition between survivors. Especially at red grade it can feel impossible to pip, unless you go out of your way to try. Since Grade Reset I've already hit Gold Grade 1 killer vs Silver Grade 4 survivor and I've played both equally.
I feel like escaping should be a guaranteed pip and then the second depends on what you did. It feels dumb that you can escape a game and only safety pip.
I would maybe add a caveat to this that you only guarantee a 1 pip on escaping, if the exit gates were powered.
It's entirely possible to do nothing all game and escape through the hatch or an exit after the hatch has been closed. That's not a 'win', and shouldn't be a pip.
-
In general, all of my 'good' games, as survivor or killer, that involve a lot of variety in actions, where I/the killer don't camp and tunnel, multiple hooks are made, and regardless of escape/kill ratio, all of these games result in fairly equal scores between all players, survivors and killer. Because survivors are making multiple hook saves, multiple heals, and repairing multiple gens.
The cases where killer score dwarfs the survivors scores, is usually when camping and tunnelling are in play, or when the killer dominates the game and kills everyone too quickly at like 4/5 gens left, or when a player DCs/ragequits.
In the cases where survivors get low scores because they're eliminated quickly, it's a sad result, but it's not strictly 'unfair'. If you played for half the time, and only got half the score, so what? It's proportional. You get to the next game quicker where you can earn more BP.
In the cases where survivors get low scores specifically because they were camped, tunnelled or sandbagged, it's absolutely 'unfair'. It might be a quick game, but it may also not be a quick game, and either way, the low score will feel unjustified.
Increases to all BP gains on average, across the board, isn't the answer, as it would just end up giving survivors unearned higher scores in the 'good' games, which leaves the killer feeling hard done by for playing fairly. Instead, what there needs to be is additional score events in certain instances that mitigate the unfair 'loss' of BP when survivors are camped/tunnelled/sandbagged.
For example:
- 1000 Distraction BP score in the 'Objective' category, for each generator completed while you are; in a chase, or on a hook with the killer within 32 meters.
- 500 Distraction BP score in the 'Altruism' category, for each health state gained by another survivor while you are; in a chase, or on a hook with the killer within 32 meters.
This would mean that even if circumstances beyond your direct control prevent you from taking actions in the Objective and Altruism categories, you can still earn a varied score and get fair compensation for your role in distracting the killer from your team mates.
Additionally, this would encourage survivors who are camped/tunnelled to 'hang on' for longer, in order to gain more BP and give their team a better chance.
-
That's a very niche scenario where you have multiple gens in progress that close to each other. This isn't really a perk that requires a cooldown, as the perk is limited in use by the survivors actions. It can only be used on non-regressing gens with repair progress on them.
Adding a cooldown would just allow survivors to instant-tap gens with no consequence, and waste the perk, which obviously affects weaker killers more than the likes of Nurse.
As always, nerfing perks because they "make the top tier killer stronger" is almost always the worst decision. You need to nerf the killer, not the perk, otherwise you just make all killers weaker, and Nurse is still the best one.
-
You could just not instantly tap the gen. If you don't touch the gen for 20s, then NtH has a 20s cooldown!
I'd sooner see Call of Brine and Overcharge nerfed before this.
-
@BenOfMilam said:
It's way too easy to tunnel in general right now, especially as killers that have strong tracking (like using Legion's Frenzy to find your tunnel target).
Once you have the 3v1, you just camp hook when you catch the second guy and the survivors simply cannot win.
The problem with tunneling is quite obviously the fact that you can force a 3v1 fairly early. I've proposed shared hook states before, so it is literally impossible to force a 3v1 until everyone is on death hook. The community hated it, probably because all the reddit killers can't win without hardcore tunneling.
Shared hooks doesn't solve tunnelling, if anything it just promotes it. It reduces the 'prize' for tunnelling, but it makes not tunnelling more costly at the same time.
If you need to score 8 hooks before the first survivor is eliminated, regardless of order, then why not tunnel out the weak link, and then eliminate the other three on their first hook?
You're ultimately also guaranteeing that every game must have the potential for 12 hooks, and thus rebalance the game around that new set of goal posts. Survivors would need to be very heavily nerfed.
For perspective, the killer equivalent of this, would be if survivors had to repair all 7 generators, or if they only had 5 generators on the map to choose from and needed to repair all of them.
-
@TheWheelOfCheese said:
I've said this before and I'm not replying to anyone directly here, but it's something you need to keep in mind when discussing changes to incentivize not tunneling:
Whatever incentive you give killers not to tunnel someone out has to be at least impactful as eliminating a survivor from the match. If it's not, it's not a strong enough incentive.
The metaphor I've used before is that if there are no repercussions for stealing $10 from you, offering someone $5 not to steal $10 from you isn't going to work. They're just going to steal the $10.
This isn't an absolute. Otherwise tunnelling would occur in EVERY game, and every killer would always tunnel, no questions. Tunnelling isn't fun for the killer, so there's already incentives to not tunnel, in that the game is more enjoyable when you don't. This isn't a transaction, it's a game.
There are already many perks that incentivise not tunnelling, such as Make Your Choice, Gift of Pain, Thanatophobia, etc. and on the right killers, these can be decent perks. So more like this, particularly if they're powerful enough to be meta, would reduce the amount of tunnelling.
Old BBQ reduced tunnelling, as evidence by the sudden surge in tunnelling after 6.1 gutted it. Many killers cite the fact that spreading out hooks and getting 4 BBQ stacks acted as a secondary objective that they didn't mind losing the 4K in order to complete.
You don't need ONE incentive that trumps tunnelling completely. You just need enough individual reasons not to tunnel. No individual incentive needs to be "at least" as beneficial as not tunnelling. At all. So ultimately your argument and metaphor amount to the equivalent of "you can't cure cancer, so why bother treating the symptoms" or "climate change has already begun, so there's no point using clean energy"
-
Boons, or more specifically CoH, singlehandedly killed hit-and run playstyles, as well as traditional Hex Perks. I wouldn't exactly call that a 'failure' but it's not a balanced addition to the game. The problem is that the base functions of a Boon totem, it's radius, notifications, time to bless, etc. can't be changed between perks, and what's effective for one effect (healing) might not be as effective for another effect (speed boost).
Scourge Perks aren't necessarily OP or DoA either, some of them are definitely well designed, but some don't seem powerful enough to warrant the need for a specific hook, such as Gift of Pain and Floods of Rage, which specifically require a survivor to be unhooked to take effect anyway. I like that they're perks that require a unhook, it encourages killers to let the save happen, but they need to be powerful enough effects that they're worth losing out on a third of their activations.
-
It would need to be significantly changed, and run through another PTB test before it was determined to come out in the live game. Far too many issues with it in the way it was implemented the first time.
-
@Pumpkinbros said:
well it honestly just begs the question obviously, why is ghost face one of the only killers that get to see the progress of his effect on the survivors, I don't believe even Sadako can see that information
I believe if we're going to sit here and argue whether plague should get this change, then I think we should actually debate all killers with a ring effect around the survivor should get this treatment
Plague and Sadako's survivor gauges are significantly more lethal than Ghostface's, in addition, neither of them are entirely under the killers control.
Ghostface kinda has to be able to see mark progress. It's entirely governed by your own actions (stalking) and the moment it is triggered, a timer begins, 60 seconds of Expose. Once that timer runs out, you've lost your power. So you need to be able to start it when you need it, so that you can use it within that narrow window of time.
For Plague on the other hand, full infection inflicts the Broken status, and it's indefinite. Meaning there's no way for the survivor to simply 'outlast' the infection. It's also accumulated passively, so you don't have to DO anything to trigger it like GF's stalking. The Plague is under no pressure to capitalise on the infection, and the survivors only way of removing it also gives her power, so it's a win-win, there's no power to lose.
Sadako also has a more lethal power in Condemned. This allows her to eliminate a survivor entirely, and like infection, it doesn't run out. In order for a survivor to lose Condemned, they have to interact with TWO TV's.
Either of them having real time information on the progress of their power for an individual survivor would allow them to do something that their power is not designed for. Precisely time a hit or down for the moment their power takes full effect.
If Plague had this ability, she'd be more similar to Trickster, except that upon completion of her power, the survivor doesn't get a speed boost from the injury. She'd be Trickster, with unlimited knives, with knives that hit survivors automatically when they repair gens, that denies survivors a speed boost on injury.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373524#Comment_3373524
Me, a man of culture: "Wah! New killer is bad for both sides!"
Me, an uncultured swine: "Yay! The new killer is marginally better than it used to be!"
-
Survivors Mains: "Wah! New changes are a buff to killer!"
Killer Mains: "Wah! New changes are a nerf to killer!"
-
Pig, Ghostface, Dredge. I like killers that can have fun with survivors, rather than just beat them into submission. GF and Pig can crouch and teabag back, Dredge can climb in lockers, all three can do some neat stealth plays that catch survivors off-guard for a jump scare, and jump scares are fun for everyone, it's a horror game after all. I want survivors to have a good time too, and I find that when I play these killers, I either have fun even when I lose, or the survivors have fun even when they lose.
-
Are the screams still 10 minutes long though?