Schardon
Schardon
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2548049#Comment_2548049
You can only equip 4 perks, you mentioned 5, and say they're always in all your game and 4 people using them?
Do I really have to go in depth and explain what I meant by that? I forgot to mention DS btw.
What I meant is that survivors pretty much almost always have a combination of 4 of those 5 perks. It's a rare occasion to see a survivor running 3 of those perks and 1 non meta perk. It does happen but so does it for killers.
And yes, 90% look like the following:
Surv 1: DH, BT, DS, IW
Surv 2: DH, IW, Unbreakable, BT
Surv 3: DH, IW, BT, DS
Surv 4: DH, Adrenaline, BT, Spine Chill (or some other perk)
Long story short: I rarely see anything besides DH, BT, IW, Unbreakable, Adrenaline and DS in my end game lobby. At most I see 1 non meta perk per game out of 16 perks.
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Yup, same as DH/BT/Adrenaline/Unbreakable/IW in every single game four times, your point?
Killers run meta perks as much as survivors run meta perks..newsflash.
DbD is in a sad/bad state for both parties.
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Because DbD is a casual game and in its current state not fun at a hight level. Simple as that.
There are games which were designed to actually be really fun when played well, DbD is not one of them. It's designed and balanced for casual gamers and thus it's really not fun to play in a competitive manner.
Sure, there are some folks out there who enjoy playing DbD competitively in tournaments (lol) but that's a super small fraction of the player base.
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The amount of people actually defending stretch res is just mind blowing.
"It makes my FPS higher" is not a valid argument in most cases.
You know, you can simply just lower your resolution while keeping the aspect ratio, so that argument is absolutely invalid.
You're not using stretch res. for more FPS, you're using stretch res for an advantage or else you'd just use a lower resolution.. why'd you even "stretch" your res for FPS. Makes absolutely no sense at all.
That being said - the devs need to fix their game. There are monitors which are not running 16:9 natively. 16:10 is kinda common too and 4:3 is, while it's a super old standard, still present for some people.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2541463#Comment_2541463
Compared to 2016 DbD? or even 2017 to early 2018 DbD? The game is eSports ready
Relatively speaking, maybe. But that's just relatively speaking. The game, in reality, is nowhere near being eSports ready.
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I kinda agree on that. SBMM pretty much made every fault the game has super obvious for anyone to see.
There'll probably be just two different outcomes.
- They'll remove SBMM again because.. well... it's a band aid and BHVR loves band aids.
- They'll completely overhaul the game so SBMM is not a pain in the a**.
Maybe they'll adjust SBMM to make it semi good but that'll just be a band aid again.
I'll stick to option one. Too many of my friends and acquaintances either think about quitting or already have quit DBD because it just has not been fun since SBMM.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2534563#Comment_2534563
None of this really matters because comms aren't going anywhere. They're available, they're the defacto baseline we have to work with. Which is why I make the distinction that it is a disadvantage to solos to not have comms, rather than the inverse.
Higher MMR for SWF wouldn't work. Again this is penalising people for playing with friends. You shouldn't be forces to play on a higher difficulty setting because you're being social, especially if, like me, you play better solo anyway. Plus at the highest MMR bracket, where the real elite SWF squad reside, this would have no effect. You can't increase a SWFs MMR when it's already at max.
Absolutely agree on QoL information for solo survivors, particularly information that is superfluous to voice comms so that it doesn't benefit SWF and brings solos closer to SWF level, and I've posted ideas for that many times in the feedback forum.
But as I said before, I think killers earn more than enough BP already, compared to survivors. Which I think is fair because killer is the higher stress, higher effort role. Basically I think killer is already rewarded for dealing with things like SWF anyway.
Now BPs in general I think are a tad on the low side, especially with the exponential perk roster maling the perk grind increasingly insurmountable. But the rstio of survivor to killer is fine.
None of this really matters because comms aren't going anywhere. They're available, they're the defacto baseline we have to work with. Which is why I make the distinction that it is a disadvantage to solos to not have comms, rather than the inverse.
True, they're not going anywhere so it's useless to argue about in anyways. I agree.
Higher MMR for SWF wouldn't work. Again this is penalising people for playing with friends. You shouldn't be forces to play on a higher difficulty setting because you're being social, especially if, like me, you play better solo anyway.
As I've said - other games do that too. Why wouldn't it work in DbD? If you think that matching SWF versus slightly higher skilled killers is "penalizing" playing SWF then by that logic the whole MMR/SBMM system is penalizing highly skilled players and getting better at the game because it's matching you against increasingly stronger opponents.
Matching SWFs against slightly higher MMR killers isn't penalizing them, it's part of a Match Making System which is supposed to balance the match making experience.
If we want to get nitty-gritty we could also say that SBMM already is penalizing you for playing with your friends if your friends in some cases.
Suppose your friends MMR is 1000 and your MMR is 1900 then the MM should get you into a match of around 1450 MMR. Which is too low for you but too high for your friend. Meaning your friend gets fudged over while the killer will grind his teeth because of you and if he's smart he probably won't even chase you more than once.
Plus at the highest MMR bracket, where the real elite SWF squad reside, this would have no effect. You can't increase a SWFs MMR when it's already at max.
That's true but that's just because BHVR limited the MMR cap. This is literally the first game I've ever seen introducing a capped MMR system which just furthermore shows that this game was never been ready to have anything like a SBMM/competitive match making system.
Absolutely agree on QoL information for solo survivors, particularly information that is superfluous to voice comms so that it doesn't benefit SWF and brings solos closer to SWF level, and I've posted ideas for that many times in the feedback forum.
That'd be the most sensible thing to do, yes and I reckon this will happen sooner or later, seeing competitors introducing such ping systems like HSH and the upcoming VHS. That being said, those things will bring the solo experience closer to SWF but it still won't match the efficiency a SWF could have. Though, not even a real ingame voice chat would be able to achieve that anyways since random strangers are way less inclined to really communicate with each other by nature.
But as I said before, I think killers earn more than enough BP already, compared to survivors. Which I think is fair because killer is the higher stress, higher effort role. Basically I think killer is already rewarded for dealing with things like SWF anyway.
I agree, killers already earn enough BP and increased BP also don't really do much for veterans. What are people who already have unlocked everything they wanted with those BP?
That plus increased BP would also naturally increase the amount of super rare add ons. Some add ons are too strong to have them equipped in every single match.
Now BPs in general I think are a tad on the low side, especially with the exponential perk roster maling the perk grind increasingly insurmountable. But the rstio of survivor to killer is fine.
I think that's not as much of a BP problem as it is a general Perk/Blood Web problem. BHVR should, imo, look into re-designing that. Either just flat out remove Perk Tiers and automatically have T3 unlocked by unlocking a Perk for the first time or make the player able to decide what perks they want to learn instead of randomly tossing perks into the BW.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2533739#Comment_2533739
Survivor is still ateam game, and you're expected to be able to communicate with your team.
Voice chat is entirely condoned and supported by BHVR. The only reason it isn't built into the game is because it doesn't need to be, there's already so many ways to access voice chat, it's even built right into consoles so you can't even twist it into being "third party software".
It is not an "unfair advantage" for survivors, rather it is a disadvantage for solos who don't have it.
And if you've ever played with my friends.... nope. I do way better as a solo survivor. Voice comms is not a guaranteed advantage.
BHVR has already said they won't give more BP for solos, because that would still be penalising people for playing with their friends.
So before I get into the discussion I just want to say that, most of my playtime as a survivor, was me playing with friends over comms (TS or Discord). That being said, let's jump into it.
Survivor is still ateam game, and you're expected to be able to communicate with your team.
Actually, you're not expected to communicate with your team. The game was intentionally designed not to have voice chat. They've even given an interview about that matter in which they're saying they don't want to integrate VC into DbD because it's taking away from the feeling of the game. Granted - that's a game design decision rather than a balance decision but it still means the game was not designed to have VC.
I could link you to an article about that but sadly that article in in german so I don't think it'll be of much use to you. I can sill link it to you if you want me to.
Voice chat is entirely condoned and supported by BHVR. The only reason it isn't built into the game is because it doesn't need to be, there's already so many ways to access voice chat,
True, VC is entirely condoned and supported by BHVR.
No, it's not not built into the game because there are already so many ways to access VC. By that logic, no other MP game would have any form of chat and/or voice chat in their games, yet they do.
Also, see my statement above.
it's even built right into consoles so you can't even twist it into being "third party software".
Yes, you can still call it third party. The operating system of a console is not part of the game itself. Steam also has built in chat capabilities, which you could use in DbD. Steam is not part of DbD though. It's just distributed by it.
On top of that - it's and entirely different thing to have all of your team automatically thrown into the same voice chat lobby than to have to manually add every single survivor to your "party" in every single game you're playing. Can't compare that. I'm also pretty sure you can't just randomly add everyone to your voice chat party since party invitations automatically get blocked by the system if you're not on the friend list of that person if that person configured it so.
It is not an "unfair advantage" for survivors, rather it is a disadvantage for solos who don't have it.
We can argue about wether it's an advantage for SWFs or a disadvantage for solos. Since comms grant information to survivors that would normally occupy a perk slot, I'd heavily lean towards "advantage for SWF".
And if you've ever played with my friends.... nope. I do way better as a solo survivor. Voice comms is not a guaranteed advantage.
Absolutely true, not all SWFs are death squads. Most play pretty casually and even f* around just for the fun of it. This doesn't make comms less of a problem though. If it's really used to its fullest then it gives survivors a huge advantage which can't be denied. I mean honestly. Ever seen and heard a competitive SWF team on comms? It's ridiculous how much of an impact proper communication has.
BHVR has already said they won't give more BP for solos, because that would still be penalising people for playing with their friends.
Which is absolutely fine. I'd prefer another solution where playing as a SWF matches you with killers of a bit higher MMR than you and your friend have. Other games, like League of Legends, do that too with pre-made groups in order to offset the advantage voice chat gives them even though they have a text chat BUILT IN. Think about that.
Either that, or buff solo Q information to have it close to the level of an SWF which, of course, would also probably mean they'd have to buff killers.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2531489#Comment_2531489
See, efficiency is only necessary at high mmr. It's not really necessary at lower mmr where the survivors aren't as skilled. The intention of my post is to understand why tunneling seems to be the norm now when rank no longer matters, and your hidden mmr is based on how well you performed in regards to your objective.
That's a good question and you're right on that. I think that most killers in low MMR just don't know what to do and just play the game like..whatever. I don't even think they really keep track of who they've hooked already.
In the end I just think people play games to win no matter how high their MMR is. If they see an easy way to win, they'll go for it.
I also assume low MMR survivors don't often run BT and DS, thus there is nothing discouraging the killer from tunneling.
People are playing to win, it again boils down to the devs having to entice killers to spread their hooks.
I could also ask you - why should low MMR killers not tunnel? What do they get from playing inefficient on purpose? They'll stay in lower MMR regions for longer and that's far more chill and fun, sure but I'm not really sure if low MMR killers are really aware of how hellish high MMR gets for killers.
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@C3Tooth said:
@Schardon Imagine playing survivor and after completing 33% of a gen, you stop and go to another gen, repair it to 33%, stop and go to the next gen.
I understand the meaning when Killers saying this. Its about "complete" progressing of a Gen as Killers complete hook count of a survivor.
Except 33% Gen can regressed to 0. Survivor's hook count cant be decreased.
Absolutely true and it's not an entirely fair comparison, I've gotta admit that. I just wanted to make it more clear to OP how inefficient it is for a killer to spread out his hooks.
Spreading hooks for a killer is the "nice" thing to do but it's also the most dumb and inefficient thing to do.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2531453#Comment_2531453
I don't disagree with any of that, just pointing out chats aren't considered "cheating" by the devs, despite the advantages it brings.
@Azure2290 is looking for balance around SWF, and the only methods I see ever being actually implemented is either a ping system or their own in-game chat like you mentioned. I cannot think they'd ever get rid of SWF nor directly nurf it.
Ah alright. I've had another impression because the "The Devs have SWF channels on Discord" often gets used to justify using comms.
Well I can agree to the fact that the devs don't see it as an bannable offense. Though I still think they decided to "not see it as cheating" because of $$$.
Designing and balancing a game for solo play without communication and then saying "using third party comms is not cheating in any way" is delusional imho. They just decided to not call it cheating because it'd piss off too many customers.
On that note - no, they'll never nerf or get rid of SWF. They should re-balance/design the game around it though. Granted most SWFs with comms are not even that big of a deal. They're just playing semi-casually with friends. But if you're really into it and using it properly then comms give you a massive advantage and that's not something a third party software should do in a game.
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I don't think boon totems change much about hex perks tbh.
In my games my Ruin and Undying were usually gone within the first 30 seconds of the match anyways. I don't see how boon totems could make that any worse.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2531236#Comment_2531236
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2531366#Comment_2531366
And yet the devs have an official Discord set up explicitly for the community to meet up and play together.
Gotta be fair and square here and admit that this is a money driven decision, not a game health/balance decision.
They know people love playing together so they're encouraging it because it makes most of their consumers happy thus generating more money.
I'm pretty certain the devs said that the game was designed for solo players with low to no ability to communicate with each other. That's why there is no voice chat and no in game chat and no ping system etc. in the game.
If a game is designed to be played without comms then using comms basically yeets "balance" out of the window. It is an advantage as much as stretch resolution or any other third party solution is. The game was not meant to be played that way.
I'm not saying to bann SWF or anything. Most of the time when I play survivor, I play with friends too. But we can't just sit here and say that SWF is absolutely fine just because the devs have Discord channels set up for it.
Just because the devs have a Discord with SWF channels doesn't mean that the game was designed or balanced around SWF with comms.
If that was the case then the game would've had an in game chat function, whether it's voice or just text, from the get go.
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@Kaitsja said:
I understood tunneling with the old matchmaking, efficiency and all that jazz, but now with the new matchmaking all you're doing is bum-rushing to high mmr and it makes me wonder why you would want to be in a hurry to get there?
Is being looped for 5 gens and making minimal points really that much fun? Because from what I understand, high mmr is just super-efficient survivors that smash gens, know every loop and can run a killer of lesser skill for 5 gens.
I just don't understand why you'd want to tunnel in lower mmr.
Look, I know being tunneled is aggravating and boring. I've been there too but instead of blaming killers, blame the devs for their game design.
It's not the killers fault that killers heavily struggle with the timer (gen progression) and that getting one survivor out of the game ASAP is almost a necessity in higher MMR games. It's also not the fault of the killer that the most efficient way of winning the game is to tunnel survivors.
Imagine playing survivor and after completing 33% of a gen, you stop and go to another gen, repair it to 33%, stop and go to the next gen.
That's basically the same thing as a killer spreading out their hook pressure on purpose.
At this point it's the devs job to incentivize killers to focus on juggling survivors instead of focusing on one. VHS (a new asym. game coming out soon) for example, has a mechanic which makes the killer/monster want to hit different survivors instead of just one.
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@Ramxenoc445 said:
Everytime someone complains about SWF nerf I lose a brain cell at the though of a multiplayer game punishing people for playing with their friends. On the other hand its funny because the changes that get proposed instead only buff solo queue which would make solo play more like playing against a SWF. Killers getting buffed to compensate more than likely won't happen either unless its something like making a killer perk or two base. I would love to see spies from the shadow be base on killer. It'd make sense to me anyway and also bring more use to Calm spirit
It's an already existing concept though. Not in DbD but in other games. League of Legends has it, that when you (DuoQ) queue up with a friend you'll get matched with opponents of a bit higher MMR to offset your advantage of having comms.
Now that we have SBMM, this concept could be applied in DbD to some degree.
That being said - I'd prefer to see buffs to soloQ and corresponding buffs to all killers. So the the power of solo players gets closer to SWF players, instead of penalizing SWF.
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@ukenicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2526140#Comment_2526140
Survivors don't have all the time in the world though. Time is precious to both sides. Completing gens is top priority and the games objective but survivor has a plethora of other side objectives that they can do/certain perks encourage.
Boons will be another perk that encourages survivors to seek out and bless totems encouraging a side objective other than gens. Unless the boons offer some insane bonus to repair speed I highly doubt that they will become this great issue that you're all making them out to be. Killer doesn't HAVE to waste their time looking for and breaking them.
Again it's all too early to tell since we need to see what the actual boons do. Obviously they won't do "nothing" and I'm sure they also won't have some crazy effects like Ruin. I'm expecting a middle ground otherwise people just won't run them at all.
Again, they are going to encourage survivors to do something other than gens. Literally what more do killers want
Except that they might not do that. I reckon, in high level play, most survivors won't bother to activate their boon on anything else than a hex totem (if boon totems are not absurdly strong). Blessing a hex totem is a double win for survivor - it removes the hex and grants them the boon.
So either boon totems become a monstrosity of power to make "efficient" survivors actually bother with them or those survivors will only use them on hex totems (by the way.. how does a boon totem interact with Undying? Could be a stealth/unintended nerf to Ruin+Undying).
Which then again means that efficient survivors will NOT have any additional objective. Those survivors will have cleansed the hex totem anyways. So instead of just spending a few seconds to cleanse the hex, they'll spend the same amount of time to cleanse a hex AND get a boon on top of it.
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@Angelicus23 said:
I really don't get it
Killers say they don't have time to look for boon bones because they must just chase and kill
But also want to look for bones to set up the Hexes themselves?
Well, you see - having to spend 20 seconds to put your ruin into a good spot is well invested time and preferable to having your ruin spawn 1 meter next to a generator.
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@pseudechis said:
You just described 90% of the killer games I play, I get on each evening play about 10-15 games as killer, mixing it up sometimes but mostly Trapper and Myers.
I'd say 12-13 games are a steamroll where I sweat for one hook and the survivors spend most of the game rubbing it in my face rather than finishing the gens and leaving.
Then I typically get 1-2 games where I have a shred of a chance and maybe I'll 3k. It's like this every night since SBMM was released but I keep plugging away to see if it gets any better.
Can't believe I'm about to say this but I miss the old rank system, at least I knew where I stood, had some kind of feedback about why a game was hard and could sit in a place I felt was comfortably my level.
Now I have face stomp after face stomp with no idication of why and no real feedback. I'm not sure why I'm still playing but I can safely say that SBMM doesn't work at least not for me. Most fun I had tonight was killing the bots in the tutorial.
Until this gets fixed I think that'l be my game from now on hop on kill the tutorial bots and log off.
Gotta be honest - I've only noticed weird behavior since yesterday.
My games - up until this point have been.... more "balanced" I'd say on both survivor and killer. Gotta really try hard and give my best as a killer to secure anything above 2k though. But it almost never a complete stomp fest on either side.
Yesterday was super weird though...
@WerQ said:
This is so weird.
I've been playing killer and have been getting absolutely stomped. None of the matches felt fair like at the start of SBMM, every match has been against people with thousands of hours in DBD.
I've been super frustrated how badly SBMM seems to perform. If other people are having the same experience, then maybe they just haven't communicated something to us?
Edit: By communication I mean that they changed something.
Again, as I've already replied to @pseudechis, I didn't have any weird issues as killer up until now. My games, as killer, have been pretty balanced but definitely a sweat fest for both sides.
That being said - yesterdays matchmaking went completely yolo on me and behaved absolutely different to what it used to be in the last 2 weeks.
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@Clowning said:
Could be the fact that Killer MMR doesn't kick in until you've played enough games on said Killer, or so it has been said. So if you're a god Blight and suddenly decide to buy Slinger, expecting easy games, you'll still face roughly the same Survivors you'd get in your Blight games until your MMR tanks on Slinger and things change.
I've taken that into account, trust me. That's also why I was describing my experience yesterday in so much detail.
You're right about what you've said but I don't think that applies to my experience of yesterday. Kicking a gen/breaking doors works the same way on EVERY killer. Any killer that has played more than 1 match knows how to do that, yet the Huntress did not know how to kick gens and instead hit it and threw hatches at it for longer than a minute.
That's definitely not a "god tier" or "decent" Blight who's just never played huntress.
Also, as I've described, none of those players knew how to track survivors. Running in a straight line and taking a quick left/right to hide behind stones, followed by walking, made all of them loose the survivors every single time. We didn't even have to loop them.
To add to that - none of them had any tier 3 perks or any teachable perks equipped.
Sure, you could argue that those killers just didn't have anything good unlocked yet and just bought the killer and hopped onto a game. Definitely could be the case but having ALL of these things combined in 3 consecutive matches heavily hints to the fact that something fishy was going on with SBMM yesterday.
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@KerJuice said:
I was wondering the same thing yesterday as well…interesting.
@KayTwoAyy said:
I ran against 3 killers in a row today who I would have guessed were Green Ranks in the old system--playing killers they just bought in the past 48hrs. As a long time red rank, I was definitely scratching my head.
@ThiccBudhha said:
Killers definitely be 4king my teams.
Interesting, so it's almost save to assume there was/is something going on with SBMM...
Gonna wait for more replies but it was really weird to play the game.
Wondering if it's a bug or if they've done it on purpose because Killers are complaining about SBMM being a sweat fest and the long queue times...
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509227#Comment_2509227
Maybe its a region thing. Playing EU.
Also playing on EU. EU West to be precise.
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Been starting to play FF8 again instead of playing DbD in my spare time. I can't be asked to wait 10 minutes for a match just to sweat my arse off in a casual game.
When I play DbD now, I started to play more survivor even though I dislike the survivor gameplay. But I nowadays prefer the (in my opinion) less appealing but instant and chill gameplay to 10 minutes of waiting and sweating.
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I mean I almost never play Spirit but if you want to be able to opt-out of playing against certain Killers I also want the option to opt-out of playing against SWF. Fair deal?
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Yes and no. I do enjoy to not get matched with absolute baby survivors who I demolish before they have even done one gen but I also don't enjoy having to sweat my a off every single game against try hard squads.
I mean I do enjoy the challenge from time to time but I don't want to face it in every single game since I play DbD for what it is - a casual game. If I wanted to sweat I'd play a proper PvP game like Starcraft or DotA.
This game is in such a weird state that I've actually stopped playing DbD for now because I don't want to sweat every single game (as I've already mentioned) and I don't want to wait 10 minutes for my queue to pop. 10 minutes of waiting time is just too much for me. I have very limited time to play games and I don't want to waste my spare time by looking at a queue screen. 1-2 minutes are fine, but 10 is atrocious.
And when I decide to play DbD I just play survivor most of the time now even though I don't even enjoy the survivor gameplay and prefer the killer gameplay way more, simply because I don't have to sweat as much and I have instant queues.
DbD should either stop trying to be competitive and focus on its casual gameplay or completely overhaul the game and make it competitive as many people want it to be. But right now it's just an abomination of both.
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@Tsulan said:
Sorry to hear that. But just switch to survivor. At this point it should be clear that survivors are the desired power role.
On regard of the 45 minute queue, i can only imagine that it's because of the patch problem (X-Box). Because my PC killer queue is usually between 1 and 2 minutes (and getting shorter each day) but has never been longer than 5 minutes. So it might be a bug or something, when your queues are so long.
Really? Weird.. I'm mostly playing killer too and my games are consistently sitting between 5-10 minutes (usually playing at prime time).
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@Jasix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507721#Comment_2507721
Again I will say it - you cannot condone camping and tunneling and not condone "Holding W." They are all flawed game designs, but they are all approved tactics. And again I will say it - play how you want just so long as it is not against the rules.
I've neither condoned camping/tunneling nor have I not condoned Holding W. I merely explained that this complaint is about design, not balance.
But to go where your argument is heading - I don't mind survivors holding W as much as I don't mind killers camping/tunneling. I know that those things are in many situations the best thing you can do. So there is nothing wrong with the action of doing so.
The issue I take with this is that all of those things add nothing of substance to the gameplay. I don't mind people using it but I mind devs not designing their game in a better way.
DbD is in a weird state, imo. It should be a horror game so running away from the killer should make sense but the community mutated this game into a pseudo competitive hardcore PvP game in which just running away doesn't make sense.
Take it as you will but in my opinion there "just running away" is not engaging and interesting for anybody as much as camping is.
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You're not understanding what killers are complaining about. It's not about holding W being too strong, it's about bad game design. When the BEST/MOST EFFICIENT thing you can do is to hold W, to make distance, then the game is designed poorly.
It's a complaint about game DESIGN not game balance.
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To me survivors feels, for whatever reason, easier because my teammates seem to understand what the purpose of gens is. Killer feels like a sweat fest in every match after a 5-10 minute queue.
So, even though I'm enjoying the killer gameplay more, I nowadays prefer to play survivor because the queues are much faster and I don't have to sweat my butt off to do anything.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2500109#Comment_2500109
Basically the dwight challenge where you stick close to the killer without being spotted. To some degree the tomes can put you in position to throw games in general. It is disappointing to see challenge space being taken up by gags rather then explore cool build options but I guess they ran out of ideas.
Yeah the challenges could be something really cool but on the other hand I also dislike the challenges being bound to certain survivors/perks. If you don't already own the required DLC you're basically sh out of luck.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2502047#Comment_2502047
I feel like that depending on when you played. Playing during the day you'd get really good players. Playing during the night was a coin flip of "will it be a comp player or will it be a new player".
Yeah ofc, I reckon most people play at night so you'll have a larger pool of players available. I mean I REALLY suck at survivor but after rank resets I still was able to loop a killer for 4-5 gens because of how broken the MM was sometimes.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501987#Comment_2501987
It also means you can basically never take aggro and are a permanent dead weight to your team because you have to play uber stealthy.
Depends, now with the new SBMM I'm more inclined to agree with you but I don't think this was the case before SBMM. With how bad the MM was, you could easily get aggro in some matches and never get downed if you're a really good looper.
I agree though that it prevents you from playing optimally.
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@wxnickxw said:
I don't really know if Unbreakable should be considered 2nd chance. If the killer can't be bothered to get you on the hook after you've been down that long it stops feeling like a second chance perk.
Any more than getting unhooked or having someone heal you from the dieing state normally is second chance anyway
Yeah, it can feel that way but Unbreakable sometimes really has a huge power.
In higher MMR you'll sometimes see killers snowballing by capitalizing on survivors mistakes by slugging. Having downed one survivor and having two other survivors hovering around that downed guy (to flashy save him or to pick him up) can be incredibly useful to the killer. If those two guys mess up, the killer has the opportunity to down both of them, resulting in only one survivor being alive.
If he's really going for the 4k he'll hook one survivor and slug the other two while going for the fourth guy. If one of the slugged survivors has Unbreakable he can completely kill the momentum of the killer and ######### the power role back to the survivors.
This example also works with just having 1 survivor hooked and 1 slugged but the aforementioned situation is even more impactful of course so I went with that one.
That being said - I've ran Unbreakable too quite an amount of times and I gotta admit that it most of the time feels rather underwhelming.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499978#Comment_2499978
Well they could also implement a couple perks to deal with camping if they wanted to, but I figured that would just pass off killers more on here do I didn't mention it. For example a reverse bt where your invulnerable within x meters if hooked survivor or a my favorite would be a perk that allows survivors on the hook to interfere with the killer if he camps, something that stuns/blinds the killer. Possibly a perk that charges up if the killer hangs around enough like Leon's flashback that explodes and let's you off the hook
That'd be possible but there is one issue I have with this solution. BHVR already tries to fix every gameplay/balance issue this game has with perks. Instead of thinking of new perks how to bandaid fix another gameplay issue, they should rather think about how to fix the issue itself.
If this reverse BT would exist and I understand it correctly, it could be heavily abused. A killer would have to go out of their way to NOT hook a survivor near an unfinished generator because survivors would just repair that gen because they can't be stopped as long as the survivor is hooked. This would be not only toxic to the killer but also kinda toxic to the survivor because his misfortune even gets further abused by his teammates, making him have to wait longer for a save.
We already have perks to stop camping/tunneling though. The one issue I, as a guy who mostly plays killer, can acknowledge (even though it has been buffed recently) is that it just lasts 12 seconds and a killer can just wait it out.
One fix to that would be to making the BT timer stop progressing while the killer is within x meters of the survivor.
On the other hand though it's sometimes necessary for the killer to wait out BT in order to have a chance of winning after he made a mistake or the survivors are just too efficient on gens... so that's to be discussed..
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2500109#Comment_2500109
Blue Glyph challenges of "find glyph and escape" are basically that. Many survivors don't do anything until they find their glyph and then they do their best to avoid killer (like hide in corner) so they can escape.
Hide within 10 meters of killer for 30-60 seconds keeps popping up, that's another one where survivors just don't do anything.
I feel like every tome there's a bunch of challenges on both sides that just encourage bad/unfun gameplay for both sides.
The EGC challenges were terrible. Killers would have to basically let survivors do all gens so EGC could start, survivors would sandbag teammates or need to be in swf where teammates were OK possibly getting themselves killed during EGC to have someone to unhook.
That's close but still not exactly the same imo. It may be true that some survivors might play that way in this challenge but you still don't have to go out of your way to do that.
Same with the crown event a few months ago. I just found the crown during one of my games and managed to escape. That's just something I was able to do during my normal gameplay except for that fact I had to spend 2 seconds(?) to commute with it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2500109#Comment_2500109
There's one like "Escape the trial without being hooked while using the perk spine chill" if that helps? Not in this tome but
Nah, wouldn't count that. Escaping without getting hooked is more or less the ideal outcome for a survivor so you don't have to go out of your way to complete that challenge.
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@lordfart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2500109#Comment_2500109
Not as bad as some of the killer challenges but I have given up on the survivor one that requests you finish repairing 4 different generators in one match using dark sense. Threw a few games to do those stupid hide near the killer without being detected for x amount of time in one match challenges
Yeah that sounds kinda bad too. Tbh I'm not a big fan of those challenges either way. I'd be fine with them if you'd be able to complete them on the go but to have to go out of your way just to complete some of those challenges is just not my thing. I just ignore them every time and play my game...
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@ThiccBudhha said:
I play late at night and the queues have more or less returned to normal. I try not to play during the day as I left Overwatch BECAUSE of the queues. I am never going back to that horror. You think it is fine at first, you justify it with books, netflix, youtube, coming to the forums... But it wears you down. You have a lot of time to think about how you are literally doing nothing for 15 minutes just to play a game for a few minutes.
Yup, as soon as queue times are getting close to the time an actual game needs to complete, it's getting really problematic. Let alone queue times being even longer as the actual game.
I'm fine with 2-3 minutes if the game needs 15 minutes but waiting 10 minutes for a 5-7 minutes game is BS.
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5-10 minutes. I'm either watching Netflix or Twitch on my second monitor. Maybe starting to play Final Fantasy 8 during queue soon...who knows.
Queue times are too high for killers now though imo. Especially since we have to sweat our arses off because all survivors I'm matched against annihilate those gens in 5-6 minutes. That plus in a good chunk of my games I have this over-confident survivor who DCs after his first down because he couldn't last longer than 20 seconds in chase.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2499834#Comment_2499834
Exactly. Totems spawns are, on the whole, usually pretty awful that I'm genuinely surprised when they're NOT cleansed within the first minute of the match, lol. I just assume the worst, and if my totems actually make it past 60 seconds into a match, I almost consider that a win in itself.
I second that. In my latest match I had my undying and my ruin cleansed a few seconds after starting my first chase EVEN THOUGH I started my first chase at one of those totems to prevent it from getting cleansed (I went straight to it when the trial started).
So 1 survivor found undying on the other side of the map while 2 survivors found my ruin, which I wanted to protect, at the same time and I didn't see the third survivor who was camping my ruin and just waiting for me to leave to area while chasing the second dude.
Yeah, high risk high reward but why not just spawn hex totems with a big LED sign over them while we're at it? Doesn't make a difference anyways. 😂
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I'm wondering why there are no survivor challenges like that.
Idk...something like "Escape the trial without touching a gen and totems for the first 3 minutes of the game".
Would be kinda funny. :D
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3x DH (1x Lithe)
2x DS
2x Iron Will
3x BT
1x Adrenaline
I mean...
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Well I don't camp and I don't tunnel but since SBMM came in, I sometimes wish I did.
Having 4 decent survivors as enemies who know what gens are is f*ing stressful mate.
As soon as I blink 2 gens are already done along with undying and ruin being gone. I mean seriously... In my last 5 matches all gens where done within 5-6 minutes. I can see why many killers want one survivor out asap but camping doesn't help at all anyways. If I'd have camped a survivor I wouldn't have gotten more than 1 kill.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497879#Comment_2497879
Yes and I've been told the abuse was 1they would run the killer near the hook. (Fixed by the except in a chase part) or 2 it forced killers to leave the hook when they would rather stay ie it made them stop camping as intended which most killer mains seem to think is a firm of abuse
Looking at it at a superficial level, yes, it did what it was supposed to do. If you're looking at it in detail it did more damage than good.
This mechanic make unhooking pretty much always save. There were no downsides to it. Either the killer left so you could unhook safely without any danger or the killer stayed there with getting looped by another survivor while the other 2 survivors could simply do gens without any harm.
It basically made everything safer for survivors and that's worse than having a killer camp 1 survivor out of the game. Why? Because a camping killer will automatically lose the game to any sort of half decent survivor. There's a trade-off to it. The killer gives up 60-70% of the survivors objective for 25% of his own objective.
There was no trade-off at all for the other mechanic.
There already are enough anti-tunnel options in the game. Namely Unbreakable, DS and BT.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not against the idea of making camping less attractive to killers (which is really hard because camping already is really unattractive on a half decent MMR) but that was not a good solution.
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@Mr_K said:
I only download the 400MB patch. Maybe you are misreading the new Steam download page. That 32GB is Steam patching the files on your drive. Not it downloading the game.
This is true but can we still agree on the fact that the update process of this game is completely broken?
The game somehow unpacks itself and checks itself over and over and over again 5 times. I've never seen such a behavior in any other game.
I dread every patch of DbD while I really don't care about any patch of any other game I have played in the last 5-10 years because I don't even notice them and even if I decide to watch them download and install it usually takes 5 minutes tops. Usually 1-2 minutes.
I mean seriously.. I'm able to install entire 32GB games and install them 3 times before a 400MB DbD patch gets applied. It's beyond ridiculous.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497699#Comment_2497699
How about hooks pause when the killer is within a certain distance unless he is chasing a survivor?
Most killer mains object to this becusde they claim it can be abused. When pressed about the abuse they say something along the lines of it forces a killer to leave the hook when they don't want to (you know stops them from camping)
Afaik BHVR already implemented that at some point. Survivors heavily abused this mechanic and BHVR removed it again. So, nope.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497855#Comment_2497855
I think your missing parts of the game. For example leafing the killer away from your team and then hiding either by using perks or purposely making noise just to name one fun additional thing to do
There are quite a few things to do in detail. I was talking about the broad spectrum of the game. "Leading the killer aways" is what I'd categorize as "chase" since the killer is going after you.
Quint essence of my statement is though, that the main objective of survivors is basically waiting (doing gens) and the main objective of killer is to basically make survivors wait (hook them).
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@hiken said:
i hope BHVR adress it somehow, waiting to get face camped with 4 and 5 gens to go is a problem that requires a penalization.
There already is a penalization besides "losing some points". It's losing the whole game and de-pipping/ranking/MMR-ing or whatever you want to call it nowadays.
That being said - Imo the whole hook mechanic is a flawed concept. Why? Because it's boring and thus really frustrating. There are 3 ways survivors spend their time in a match.
- on a gen/totem
- in chase
- on a hook/slugged
1 and 3 are extraordinarily boring and I think it's beyond frustrating to get hooked, not because of the "I lost the chase" aspect but because of the "I now have to wait/afk here for x amount of time until someone decides to unhook me".
That plus the queue times are probably the reason most survivors get super salty. The games action constantly gets stopped for survivors because of objectives and hooks and queue times which can all be categorized as (waiting times).
But hey, that's just my opinion...maybe other people think that sitting on gens and hooks is not boring af.
Edit:
I forgot to comment on the last part of your comment "as if we could do 4-5 gens during 1 hook" or something like that.
Let's look at facts and numbers here - If the killer hooks the first survivor of the game and camps him, that gives the other 3 survivors 2 full minutes of doing gens. A gen takes 80 seconds to finish for a solo suvivor. So a single survivor could, in theory, finish 1,5 gens during the 2 minutes of the killer camping.
Given the fact that we have 3 survivors remaining we can simply multiply that number by 3. 1,5 gens x 3 = 4,5 gens. So in theory you could finish 4,5 gens while the killer camps the first survivor.
Ofc that's an optimal number and not realistic since you'll have to find gens, run to them and in non SWF teams people are not coordinated to play that efficiently but doing 3 to 3,5 gens during that time is something that I'd call realistic for competent solo survivors.
So the killer trades 25% of his objective (1 kill) for 60% of the survivors objective (3 gens.. opening exit gates not included in calculation).
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@toastcrusher said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2495991#Comment_2495991
depending on the how....try to look at it from a survivor point at view, first 10sec of a game, a killer got you from behind with a 1 hit kill.....hmmmm not a gen popped and you didn't even take a step....or could take a step, imo i understand that someone like that thinks....f this. A killer player should atleast put in a litlle effort to make a game fun, not just go for easy kills and speedruns.
in the situation i described a killer could have initionate a chase, a sort of heads up that he is coming if you not start running, but thats not always the case, and there you have it, problem reaction
Wow, really? Why should a killer put in effort to make the game fun for survivors? I haven't seen survivors who put in effort to make the game fun for killers. The second they see a gen, they're on it. The second they see ruin, they're on it.
You're not responsible for the fun of the other side whether you're playing killer or survivor. I don't expect a killer to give me hatch and I also don't expect a survivor to grant me a free kill.
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I've also recently noticed the increased willingness to dc. Every other game a survivor either DCs on the first pick up or kills himself on purpose.
My guess is that people just want easy games and thus DC when they notice the match won't be that easy to decrease their MMR.
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@Potassium said:
To my knowledge the past three to four chapters have been riddled with game breaking bugs and a scary lack of polish in the gameplay department that takes a month and a half to put a bandaid over and it's getting to the point of which Assassin's creed unity on launch looked like a more stable game than Dead by Daylight is right now
Considering Dead by Daylight is over 5 years old by now it's shocking to see phantom hits , absurd hitboxes , frame rates i can count on a single hand and so much more - i love this game but i can't just ignore everything that's dragging it down into being a misery of a game to play (especially on "older" consoles)
this IS NOT feedback or a suggestion , this is an open question to anybody who has an answer - where has the quality control been?
I don't think it shocking at all. The games base wasn't built/coded by experts back then, thus the games code has fundamental flaws. The more that gets added to this already flawed code (aka spaghetti code) the more issues will arise.
That's actually the expected outcome and you can expect it to probably get even worse.
The game probably needs to be completely re-written from scratch in order to un-break the already broken.