Schardon
Schardon
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2493254#Comment_2493254
You know that just because you believe that doesn't make it true, right? Only 6.1% of all pc players ever achieved rank 1 as survivor. The highest I ever got was rank 3 and that is after about 200 survivor hours.
Source: https://steamcommunity.com/stats/381210/achievements
Now you can show me your source for "even casual players would hit Rank 1 few days after reset"
I assumed so too tbh. I started playing DbD after the Blight DLC came out and it took me between 40 and 45 hours of played time to reach red ranks as a killer. I'd consider that pretty casual.
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@Anniehere said:
I took a break from the game in August but I'm not coming back yet.
I read reviews about the MMR in the forum and on social media and i understand that the matchmaking is not friendly but tough.
I know i will continue to use unpoplar builds, different perks that not include Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time or the others. i have fun with them in-game and i don't want to use same build.
Let's say i have terrible games, i couldn't escape and 70% of my games are losses.
Will the MMR put me with players with lower win rate/survival time?
Well..uh...lower. What kind of answer do you expect here?
The way any MMR system works is that you'll drop/climb to the point where you'll have a win rate of roughly 50%.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2495591#Comment_2495591
It does. People sweat every reset to get their red colors quick then simmer down after that. The only difference now is because it hits harder since everyone returned to Ash I .
Also sbmm is a placebo and you should treat it as it doesn't exist.
Well you do have a point of people sweating their asses of at first to reach red ranks again it's still not the same as before when we assume SSBM is somewhat working.
Valid point though, didn't take into consideration people try hard to get back to red ranks asap since I usually don't care at all about the rank I'm sitting at, especially since you'll reach red ranks sooner or later anyways.
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Except that rank reset has nothing to do with it anymore since the latest update to the match making system.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483522#Comment_2483522
Well, SBMM isnt exactly working for that, and it's not that niche of a thing, because almost every killer player I have talked to is facing similar issues. There is too many balancing issues to the point where people will play sweaty because they feel the need to do so, meaning most games you'll face are gonna have boring killers with boring builds and solo survivors will at one point stand no chance. Solo survivor is so horrendous that being matched with players of your own skill level is the worst idea ever, as you dont have any form of comms.
- matters, because people can get carried by perks, meaning they never learn skills they would need to learn if it ever gets balanced, at which point you can never actualy balance it, because you would kill a massive part of your playerbase(who got carried by their perks). Let alone that anyone playing against them would be bored out of their minds, because of how boring the effects of meta perks can be(especially on meta killers or SWF)
- but will that process be quick enough to keep people playing, or is it too frustrating, causing players to leave? I still havent faced enough Twins to consistently counterplay her, I havent faced enough Tricksters to consistently counterplay. I havent faced enough Hags to consistently counterplay her(let alone the fact that she has some problematic addons and campy mechanics that need solving too), and I have been playing this game since 2016. Hags are so rare, that I can counterplay them somewhat, but I've faced less than 100 hags in the past 5 years. I've faced thousands of spirits in the past year alone. The system wont really change that. Having a seperate gamemode, where SBMM rules supreme is fine, but there is no more casual now.
- I mean, the last matchmaking was kinda fine, the biggest issue was killers not having seperate matchmaking, but other than that, it had it's issues, but part of those issues did keep the game fun for a lot of people on the long term.
- Thing is, if maps are truly balanced towards survivors having comms and specific killers(aka a ping system and killer mapseeds, P L E A S E), then a lot of meta perks on survivors can get a decent nerf, same for meta killer perks. Right now they cant, because some killers are in absolute need of getting any advantage they can get, while good players on stronger killers take advantage of weaker killers by putting on the perks those killers need to just have a decent match(its why I considered facing old Billy to be boring, they all ran the exact same builds and used the same addons, the only time I had actual fun against old billy was billy's without any addons and slightly off-meta builds as they were actually good at destroying survivors where the others just ran meta with crack addons because it was easy, same issue I have with Blight at the moment, actually).
- Which is why, once again, splitting the queues up in casual and ranked would have been much better. People would expect to tryhard every single match in ranked, and tryhards would occur less often in casual(I mean, there would still be some players tryharding in casual games, but it would be much less often, as competitive people would actually play competitive).
I mean, the previous matchmaking wasnt perfect, but as far as I have noticed, I've had only 1 game I would consider decent. 90% of my killer matches on my main have been sweaty stretched res SWF's running 12 meta perks and coldwind farm maps(which, has by far the worst 2 loops in the game I have encountered yet, Rancid Abbatoir has a practical infinite that only Spirit and Nurse could combat easily, even with increased range addons on Doctor I had issues gaining distance there, there needs to be a breakable door ASAP, then you have those haybales that are the absolute worst loop I have seen in the game, especially since all other loops on Coldwind have been raised or lowered to give both sides near equal mindgameabilites, then you have these wretched haybales with a pallet that is stretched res heaven).
I have refused to play my mains casually ever since, even though those should be the killers I should be able to casually play.
Solo survivor is hell too, as killers start tunneling just out of prevention of sweaty SWF's, forcing people to run DS on every build. I am starting to refuse playing solo survivor too.
So all that's left, is 2-4 man SWF's to play casual at this point.
Right now, it's the worst hell. Map offerings are survivor sided already(1 survivor offering=1 killer offering in this case, any other offering requires at least 3 survivor offerings), then you have SWF's with stretched res. It's basically playing like you are in a tournament, without any of the tournament rules. There is a reason why tournaments ban certain things, because the game is not balanced for tournaments. Yet here we are, having a matchmaking system that kinda enforces that unless you want to throw games.
And sure, I have gathered 3k hours at this point, but I refuse to be placed against tournament level survivors if I am not playing in a tournament, and I refuse to throw hundreds of games in a row just to not have to sweat. I never camped someone to death unless it was a tournament, I was forced to camp 3 people to death just to slow the games down as hex totems spawned in front of survivors 70% of the time. I am not playing in a tournament, and unless certain perks or medkits get disabled at some point, I refuse to play untill it's fixed
Sorry, I'm not looking at this forum during the weekends so I'm slow to reply.
- I still don't see how this matters. There is no real ranking system which is supposed to be pushed. If the carried meta perk guy is at the same MMR as the good non meta perk player and they have similar match making results then .. what gives? Why do you care that guy A does actually not deserver to be at this MMR? It doesn't change the outcome of your match. Meta perks being meta is a balancing issue of the game, not an SSBM issue. It's true that SSBM probably makes the balancing issue more visible but that's a good thing imo so the devs MAY consider to rebalance some of those. Either way, meta perks will always exist and many players will always run those meta perks. Meta exists in every game.
- Again - I don't see the issue of SSBM here. You just said that you haven't faced many Killer X and Y before SSBM and SSBM won't change that, which is true. But what did SSBM do in that case then? If you're doing bad against Twins because you're not facing her that often, then SSBM actually will help you out there because when you're climbing the MMR high enough you'll basically only encounter Nurse, Spirit and Blight most of the time. Sure, there'll occasionally be another killer but that won't be enough to drop your MMR back to wood level again. This though is again a balancing issue which also gets enhanced by SSBM.
- Yes and no. I didn't feel like it was fine. For me 95% of my games were either a stomp fest or a getting stomped fest. No balanced games, just one side being extremely dominating. Neither way was really fun.
- True.
- The thing is, there is no ranked mode in DbD. I know, I know, people are taking it as if there was but there is not and I think the actually problem is that people don't realize that. DbD has as much of a ranked mode now (with SSBM) than it had before. MMR systems don't define unranked/ranked. MMR exists in almost every PvP game even in unranked/casual mode. The devs/marketing team did a poor job of communicating what SSBM is supposed to do and the name of SSBM was also probably poorly chosen, but still - we did NOT get a ranked mode with this patch.
I also played a few games as a killer and I've gotta admit that my games were an absolute clusterfuck BUT I still felt MMR is working in the background and calculating me. You see, I either stomped the survivors or I got absolutely demolished by them with only 1k. So I had either 4ks or just 1ks. What I've been noticing is that after I got demolished and only got 1k, my next match was kind of easy for me and I got a 4k. After that I got a harder match again. This kinda hints towards the fact that my MMR is highly fluctuating in the background matching me against a wide variety of different skills to see where I belong to. I think it'll average out after a few dozen of games and work properly. Or at least I hope so.
All I can say is that DbD is indeed not ready for a ranked mode but we didn't get one anyway. Tryhard sweat lords just need to understand that DbD is a casual game at best. Playing DbD competitively is a farce imo but ofc people who exist who enjoy playing even DbD competitively. That being said, those super try hard sweaty competitive SWF death squads will eventually end up in super high MMRs and you'll most likely never see them again (that is if SSBM is actually working correctly) which is a good thing.
The resulting issue of that is that those death squads will have queue times of 40+ minutes, which will probably make them loose on purpose to drop their MMR again. This should imo be punished, if noticed. Which could be the beginning of another issue of super good survivors stopping to play DbD because they can't find matches anymore and can't be bothered to wait for 40 minutes.
What the devs should to right now, in my opinion at least, is to heavily focus on balancing the game and probably even re-designing some aspects of it so SSBM doesn't cause too many side issues. Because as you've might noticed, most of your listed issues are balancing issues, not inherently SSBM issues. This games balance is just f*ed beyond believe, that's why there are so many issues occurring.
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@danielmaster87 said:
No matter what time of day it is since this patch came out, it's been instant lobbies for survivors and 5+ minutes waiting for a killer lobby. You would think it would be the opposite. A killer-only chapter just came out, and everybody's testing out the new killer, so why aren't the killer queues short and the survivor ones long? This is a serious problem because I happen to prefer playing killer, just as many others do. If we can't play the role we want then why are we playing? This isn't Friday the 13th.
As Aven_Fallen already said - No, it's the exact opposite. I'm not quite sure how you came to the conclusion that more killer players = faster queue times for killers. This is absolutely illogical.
A match needs 4 survivors and 1 killer to start. For simplicity let's assume we have 40 survivors in queue and 10 killers. This would result pretty much an instant queue for everybody. If we have 40 survivors and 5 killers, each killer would have an instant queue while the 20 survivors would have to wait for new killers to join the queue.
Now looking at the current situation - We have 40 survivors in queue and 40 killers in queue. How do you think that'd play out? Survivors geht instant queues while 30 out of those 40 killers will have to wait for either new survivors or for the other survivors to finish their matches.
The current situation of killers having a longer queue times is absolutely logical due to everybody wanting to play the new killer and this phenomenon is seen every single patch a new killer gets introduced. It won't last that long though. Give it a week and queue times should be shorter for killer again.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483198#Comment_2483198
What few bugs there are are very frustrating ones though. Pinheads lunge is nonfunctional, my first 20 or so games as him crashed literally every time, SBMM makes matches as him super miserable, and some maps have completely unbreakable pallets. Obviously this isn't a binding of kin level patch where the game is literally unplayable, its just super unfun. Oh and they removed his lines, that wasn't very cool.
There's one more bug. Try playing the Twins. Literally every single time you switch between Charlotte and Victor a Generator Completion Sound gets played. EVERY SINGLE TIME.
While it's not game breaking it's really annoying and confusing. By the time you had your first hook you you think there are already 3 gens completed when it's really just one.
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I've been noticing that too and I've seen it on a stream. I mean seriously...how do these bugs even happen? What kind of weird code links gen completion sound files with switching between victor and charlotte? Or did they just replace the switch sound with the gen sound by accident? If so..how???
So many questions.
Well that and the obligatory question of: Why is your updater so incredibly broken every patch takes 30-60 minutes to install? (not download). Literally takes 2 minutes to download on my 300 mbit/s connection but installs over and over again, every single patch.
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Not even 24 hours into MMR and we already have our first "I'M STUCK IN ELO HELL!!!1111" thread. Nice. :D
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483714#Comment_2483714
Yeah, "just trust us" is not something Behaviour should reasonably ask or expect DBD's player base to do, given their long history of being stand-up ball-droppers. Just this week, like 65% of Pinhead games were crashing, RPD had to be disabled again, and Freddy can now be stunned by his own dream pallets. They can't figure out major things, let alone something as (I would assume) intricate as a matchmaking system.
Also, quick aside to one of your other replies: You said that people do of course want to see their skill represented, but this is rather at odds with what Behaviour's intentions with this system are. Yet they keep calling it SKILL-BASED MATCHMAKING, which is of course going to compel players to want to see some quantification of the skill factor that is influencing the matchmaking. They completely botched it just in the terminology. It's like engineers make all the decisions without running things through a comms person that can make all of this palatable to a general audience. Goddamn Office Space up in here.
Absolutely true. They already made a huge mistake in the terminology and this is why this huge uproar exists. There's a reason no other game tells their player base that even unranked mode features a full blown MMR system just as ranked does.
I also agree that "just trust us lol" is nothing BHVR can reasonably ask their player base given how much fu ups they had in the past.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483708#Comment_2483708
To be fair, Behaviour DID say during the last test that they were basing our initial MMR on match data they have been collecting for months, so there should be some ballpark accuracy at launch. We're not all just starting from zero.
Yeah that's true but as others already have mentioned (in a reply to Pulsar who replied to me) that data has been collected in a broken match making system. So it probably wasn't even smart to collect AND use that data given how much it can distort the outcome.
What we have now is a loose MMR based on a broken match making system that wasn't working at all. This MMR now needs a bit of time to re-adjust itself to reflect the skill.
I mean I'm not saying it's gonna be great. I'm also not saying it definitely is going to work. All I'm saying is that it CAN'T properly work right now, no matter how well it has been programmed. It will need time and we should give it this time. I mean... match making was a clusterfuck before MMR so what do we have to lose by waiting a few more weeks?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483708#Comment_2483708
That's blatantly false.
BHVR has been collecting data for years, wiped it and then collected another 6 months worth.
The system should be working now, and if it isn't, it's broken.
Haven't they said the wiped the data before their latest testing phase so that just the latest testing phase applies? That wasn't 6 months ago, was it?
I'm not aware but did BHVR tell us they used that data to adjust each players MMR accordingly. Do we know that every one of us did not start with roughly the same MMR yesterday?
Those a genuin questions because I have no idea.
I just know how MMR systems work not what data BHVR collected and what data they're actually using for what.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483675#Comment_2483675
Despite our butting heads in this thread, I agree with everything you've said here.
Although, you say "If it's still a mess in a few weeks/months then we have reasons to complain." What would we base that sentiment on though, exactly? We can't see or compare any sort of rank, and therefore we don't have any information (beyond gut feelings) to conclude that it is (or isn't) a mess.
That's actually a good point you're bringing up here and I can't give you a good answer to that. But assuming we would have those numbers.. like, let's say we're playing on 3400MMR and every other survivors and also the killer has an MMR ranging from 3300-3500. In this scenario we'd have ,objectively speaking, a pretty well balanced match (MMR wise).
Yet the loosing side probably still would complain about having lost and also could complain about the MMR system not working properly.
What values do those numbers hold if we don't know if those numbers get assigned properly? Why would we blindly believe that arbitrary number but not believe in the system without seeing the number?
In the end all we can do is to tell BHVR that we think it's not working properly and they need to take a look at it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483675#Comment_2483675
Where I play, there is no balance.
High MMR is not fair in any sense of the word.
Again - Your experience withing 24 hours of MMR going live is not relevant. MMR needs to adjust itself (in every game) before working properly. We'll see if it'll work in DbD.
You should start to notice an effect of MMR after a decent amount of games. I'd say about 50-100. If the system really works.
It can't work within your first 10 games.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483548#Comment_2483548
What you're saying about those games is absolutely true, but you can't solve for human nature -- which I think is what it boils down to, especially since video games are easy to make these kinds of excuses for, with little to no consequence.
But if there's an MMR system, yet we don't see any evidence of its existence in the game (via some sort of straight-up MMR number or league ranking system a la League of Legends or StarCraft II), then what's the point of Behaviour even telling us that it exists? Great, now there's a ranking system, but we can't see any of its impact. We can guess (from the outcome of individual matches and perceived teammate/opponent performance), but that's all we can do.
If I'm going to blame the game's matchmaking for this or that, I'd at least rather have a solid factual piece of information to pin it to, rather than my feelings and hunches. And I'd like some transparency into what actions impact it. I'd like to know whether I am getting better at the game or not. Otherwise, what's the point of having MMR? What was the point of even telling us that this is now the system?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483532#Comment_2483532
EDIT: Also to respond to this... if it's not an appropriately competitive game, an Elo-esque rating doesn't seem well-suited to it. And if they just wanted less stompy games, then they should have quietly implemented this without saying anything. "You're not supposed to chase after it" -- give me a break, of course players are gonna want to chase after it. Again, solving for human nature, not a thing.
Heck, I'm not noticing any of my matches being any more or less stompy than they were before. But at least before this week, I had a rank that ebbed and flowed with my performance.
We didn't get a ranking system, we got a proper match making system. Two fundamentally different things. One is a visual representation of skill which is to be pursued after while the latter is a system to make games more fair and balanced.
The reasoning behind telling us "hey we got this new system" was not to tell us to "go and grind that shite out" it was to tell "hey, we have a new match making system which should help you in find matches of equal skill you you won't stomp/get stomped".
An Elo-esque rating system exists in every game even in unranked modes, just completely invisible. Again - it's not meant to REPRESENT your skill, it's meant to make your matches less of a clusterfuck than they have been in the past.
I absolutely agree with your take on human nature. I also really enjoy grinding ranks in other games (don't really care in DbD though) and people of course want to see their skills represented. Maybe the devs should've just told us that we're gonna get a new match making system which should balance things out instead of throwing in the "MMR" buzzword and trigger everybody's instinct of wanting to push that rating.
Lastly the MMR system has been out for less than 24hrs. MMR systems need to adjust themselves over a decent amount of games. You won't notice the MMR working properly in ANY game within the first day of its implementation. That's why every other games forces you to play a vast amount of unranked matches before you're allowed to play ranked - this is because unranked adjusts your MMR which gets ported over to ranked.
So our first day experience is saying absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of the new MMR system.
The previous system was just a joke with 50% of killers (on steam) having reached rank 1. Imagine 50% of LoL players being challenger. That's not how match making is supposed to work.
I'd even go as far as to say that it's hard to NOT reach rank 1 if you play a lot, even without getting better. The previous ranking system was no match making system and had almost nothing to do with performance. Sure sometimes you pipped, sometimes you de-pipped but in the end you were almost guaranteed to reach r1 if you play enough games.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483532#Comment_2483532
I am competitive.
I want to know if I'm good. I'd like to see how good I am.
If my matches are going to take a nose-dive fun wise (which so far they have) and if I'm going to sit in 35 minute queues (as I am right now) then I'd like to at LEAST be able to see how I stack up.
That's fine, so am I but this is ultimately the wrong game to be competitive in.
I also enjoy seeing my skill represented by an emblem/rank in games that are not atrociously balanced. DbD is not one of them.
If you really are competitive your sense of "fun" should be that you're playing fair and balanced games which most of the time will be close matches. This is what MMR will or should do in the long run. Your experience withing 24 hours of MMR going live is not relevant. MMR needs to adjust itself (in every game) before working properly. We'll see if it'll work in DbD.
If your sense of fun is stomping worse players then you're not competitive but you like to see yourself as competitive.
Either way - MMR just got implemented. Let people play a few weeks for it to properly adjust. If it's still a mess in a few weeks/months then we have reasons to complain.
If people want to SEE their skill level represented they should not ask for better match making or MMR. None of those things visibly represent your skill level. The correct thing to ask for, in that case, would be a proper ranked mode.
A real ranked mode in DbD is more of a bad joke than what it's worth though imo.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483211#Comment_2483211
Hahaha I like how he posted just above how he's having problems and your response is well I'm nit having a problem so a problem must nit exist.
Also what does patients have to do with not hiding the skill value they place.? What exactly is the problem with having that number shown? Well except for the fact that bugs could be reported and you seem to be in denial that they exist
Almost no games shows you your exact MMR. It's just showing your visible rank which heavily gets influenced by MMR from back-stage. There's a big difference between a visible rank and the hidden MMR.
And even then basically every game I know of forces you to adjust your MMR before even being able to join ranked. CSGO forces you to play x amount of unranked matches. LoL does so too (gotta be a certain level to join ranked), and so on. MMR already IS PRESENT in unranked games. It just does not get represented by any other metric like a visible rank. That unranked MMR gets ported over to your ranked MMR.
Stop looking at DbD as if you'd be playing "ranked". You're not, you're playing unranked. There is no real ranked mode in DbD.
MMR needs to adjust itself over a decent amount of games, as someone already has tried to explain to you.
Your first match/day experience literally means nothing in the context of MMR. You're still being calculated. Play a few matches.. 10, 20, 50, 100. The more you play the more you'll see the MMR do it's job better. That's how MMR in every game works.
If it really works in DbD is something we'll see in a few weeks. Complaining about it one the first day though is absolute nonsense.
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Guys..SBBM has been out for a day now... give it some time.
MMR Systems don't get implemented and just magically go BRRTT and every game is balanced from the get go.
MMR needs to adjust itself over a decent amount of games.
I'd say give it about 50 games and you should usually start to see an effect and get even better over time.
That's how it should work at least, we'll see if it does.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483532#Comment_2483532
That is the irony, they complain about them making the game too competitive and want a merit based skill rating. Like, what?
Yeah I don't see any reason to actually make MMR visible. There are reasons but no good reasons imo. See my reply to Rydog right below your reply to me.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483160#Comment_2483160
Yeah, but in those games (like, say, Overwatch) there are leagues and brackets that give you a broad sense of where you stand in ranked play. Also, it's pretty obvious what contributes to your rating -- kills and victories. DBD is nebulous here, and has no leagues that give you a sense of how well you're playing. They could find some way to do it without showing you a flat number.
And yet people in Overwatch, LoL, DotA, CS:GO, Valorant and every other competitive game with a ladder system STILL blame their team mates and call them "bad" and "wood elo" even though they should know they're roughly around the same skill level due to their visible league/rank.
Cognitive Dissonance and the Dunning Kruger effect exist and will remain in existence and plague every match making system there is.
I mean in LoL even existed a placebo "Report for bad skill" button for some time.. think about it...
It doesn't matter if people see their rankings/MMR. People will still blame other people for being bad or the match making for sucking balls because they got matched with donkeys even though those players have the same MMR / visible rank.
I'd even say the magnitude of this issue is one of the highest in DbD.
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It's there to provide better match making and thus a better and more fair game experience.
DBD is not a super competitive hardcore game like League of Legends or Counter Strike and it can't be without being completely reworked. You're not able to see your MMR because you're not supposed to chase after it. It's simply just sitting there for less stompy games.
I understand that most people don't see the point in that because everybody is so accustomed to "push that rating" of literally every other PvP game, but DBD is different. It's a far too casual and unbalanced game to be compared to other games and their match making / ranking systems.
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I honestly don't think most of those things really are a problem. Most things you've mentioned are either niche issues or don't really matter in the sense of what SSBM is meant to do.
SSBM is not a rating that is designed to be pushed like other rating systems (LoL for example). It's simply made so players will have a more balanced and fair match experience on average.
@Predated said:
First things first, the positives:
- killers being seperated, makes sense, should have been added years ago. Absolutely love the fact I can start playing more killers without having to use very sweaty addons, perks or tactics(camping/tunneling) just to keep up.
- Having players with 100 hours no longer being matched with players that have 1500 hours unless they have the skill to back that difference in playtime, amazing.
Sadly, those are the only 2 positives I see.
Now the issues:
- As far as we know, perks, addons, items and offerings are not taken into consideration. So it's safe to assume that a 2000 point Blight running Alchemist Ring, Blighted Crow, Undying, Ruin, Pop and Tinkerer will be treated equally as a 2000 point Blight running Blighted Rat, Plague Bile, Pop, BBQ, Thrilling Tremors and Enduring if they have the exact same match outcome. Even though everyone would agree that the second Blight is more skilled for getting the same feat. This is a problem.
- Survivors do not have seperate SBMM for killers. For a relatively large portion of the roster, this is fine as counterplay to those killers is quite similar. But lets not ignore that countering a killer is a skill on it's own. Lets say survivors have been facing 500 killers, all of them being Doctor(not realistic, but its a hypothetical), and they "won" 350 of those matches. Now they face a Huntress, who has faced 500 games aswell and "won" 350 of those matches. Now those survivors will face that Huntress, and the vast majority of strategies and skill they learned from playing against Doctor, will be completely useless and they will definitely lose. This is a problem(.
- Continuation of point 2: once survivors are skilled enough, they will never, EVER, play against new killers unless those killers are capable of reaching ungodly high MMR, or unless they play against friends. This is a problem.
- As far as we know, maps do not seem to be taken into consideration either. So lets take Deathslinger for example, does quite well Dead Dawg Saloon. On Fractured Cowshed? Quite a bad map for Deathslinger. This is a problem.
- I'll have to add this because everyone does, but ill combine it: solo survivors and most killers cannot breach a certain level with the current balancing. So after some point, there will only be SWF, Nurse, Spirit, Blight and maaaaaybe a Hag. Because solo survivors still dont have a single way of portraying information to their teammates like an SWF can(ping system, please, it would raise the cap of SWF only a tiny bit while closing the gap between solo's and SWF very significantly), and most killers literally cannot be buffed untill solo survivors have access to portraying information to teammates(yes, killer mains claiming your killer is being ignored or nerfed without reason, solo survivor is the reason why your killer isnt getting the changes it deserves).
So I have to ask, how is SBMM in any way, shape or form good enough to benefit the playerbase at large? Content creators would need to throw their matches for the sake of keeping content fun to watch without every match feeling like it's a tournament, or give up on the game. Players who have a ton of hours and can "win" consistently without relying on meta perks, will at one point be forced to run meta perks if they want to have any chance at having fun.
The fact that solo survivor, after 5 years, has by far recieved 0 buffs to be more comparable to SWF(perks arent buffs), while killers have instead been nerfed just to make sure solo survivors are capable of holding their own is less important than matchmaking(which, while it is a mess at times, it's still creating enjoyable games consistently without needing to throw games), is a problem.
I am extremely skeptical of SBMM working the way people are hoping it works, I am extremely skeptical of veterans of the game being able to enjoy the game as they currently are without consistantly needing to sweat. And for those reasons, if SBMM doesnt work the way people hope it works(after a month or so ofcourse, people do have to remember that it takes time for any ELO system to have an accurate personal portrayal, it will be utter chaos on release, even if it is a good system), I can see quite a large portion of the community leaving untill either severe long term balancing issues have been solved or untill the SBMM is improved to actually consider what is brought to a match. A survivor running DS, DH, BT and Prove Thyself, should by default be considered less skillful than a survivor running Deception, Q&Q, Dance With Me and Lithe achieving the same results. Just as a killer running Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer and Pop should be considered less skillful than a killer(assuming same killer being used ofcourse) running Thanatophobia, Sloppy Butcher, Enduring and BBQ achieving the same results. For, what should be, obvious reasons.
- How does this matter? The outcome of both of those blights matches will be, according to your own argument, similar. Even if there is a skill difference it doesn't matter since the outcome is the same. Again - this rating is not meant to be something you chase to improve.. it's just there without being visible to provide more equal match experiences.
- It's a niche problem and a temporary one at that too. Sooner or later they'll have enough experience vs every killer. Otherwise it remains a niche problem since they're not facing that killer often anyways.
- I don't really understand what you're trying to say here tbh. Do you mean "new killer" in the sense of new player or a newly released killer? I assume the latter... While this is probably true, this is an issue of the games balance, not SSBM but yes, this is one reason why this game is not ready for SSBM but then again I prefer that over the clusterfuck of match making that we had until now..
- Yes, map balance sucks but this is pretty much my first and my third point combined.
- This is an issue which is the result of super try harding in a game, which isn't anything bad but other games have similar issues, even League of Legends. There's a meta in every game and the higher you climb the more you'll see the meta being played. To stay with my LoL example - you'll more and more see the same champions and builds, jungle routes, strats, etc. You'll also have waaaaaaay longer queue times. It simply is an issue every game has in some way or another.
I absolutely agree that this system will have its flaws but I want to give it a try. The previous match making was just atrocious. Either you stomp those survivors like they're bots (who're even playing worse than the new tutorial bots) or you get annihilated by super sayajin gods of doom survivors who kamehameha the living hell out of you.
I rarely had really balanced games where I thought to myself "Well, that was really fun and a close call". Sure, there were games like that but not nearly enough.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2481708#Comment_2481708
Yes, I said it wasn't in my comment. So if Undying is not an anti-gen perk and you can have 2 perks per category how would that stop Ruin/Tinkerer/Undying when Ruin/Tinkerer would fit into your 2 perks under anti-gen and Undying would be under a different category?
He means that the devs simply could classify Undying as an anti-gen perk. Simple as that. The devs have to power to re-label every perk in the game - it's not set in stone. If they want to they could label it as jigglypuff-perk.
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Could work but it's honestly just more of a band-aid than anything else. The Devs are already trying to fix fundamental game design flaws with the introduction of new perks.
Instead of focusing on nerfing/buffing/adding/limiting perks (notice EVERYTHING just revolves around perks) they should focus on fixing the core game design, but that's just my opinion.
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@Vyne456 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480683#Comment_2480683
Ok that's very weird but I only know about the two things like Poggers and KEKW already. 😶
Yeah sleeper is just another twitch emote. It loosely translates to "boring". Gotta get accustomed to the new lingo, lol. :D
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@Vyne456 said:
what the heck is sleeper? Do you need any english classes? That's my question. Not to be rude though.
It's the cool kids twitch chat language (ResidentSleeper). It's like saying Poggers or KEKW or something. Basically the new lol and rofl.
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@Chumbucket said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480574#Comment_2480574
But I can't grade up because of it kek
First of all - this does not happen every game, so it doesn't hinder you from ranking up, it just slows you down slightly.
Secondly - DbD is a casual af game. Stop taking ranks so seriously.
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Trapper = free
Trickster = $
That's pretty much what it's all about.
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@SasukeKun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335777#Comment_2335777
what the ######### kind of what???no way lmao
I think that could actually be true. Gotta be honest here - this game wasn't coded by experts at launch and thus it has quite a big amount of issues beginning with the installer/updater itself.
The more that gets added onto unoptimized code, the clunkier, more unpredictable and weirded the program becomes.
This game would probably need to get re-written all over to get it straight and stable again. Thing is - this takes a huge amount of time and effort and of course money, so I don't think this will ever happen.
Biggest chance is to maybe get DbD2 at some point...
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318725#Comment_2318725
I still find huntress, Billy, Leatherface all fun to play against. And those are all killers with chase focused powers. Demo too if it isnt one of those boring portal gen defense types of Demos. I still find Oni by far the scariest to play against despite his weak early game. Just feels like every killer since Deathslinger has been a real chore to enjoy games against
I think my hatred of newer chase based killers is the ability to hit over pallets or just make them downright unsafe. It doesn't make for a fun match when thats your main defense. If they added new mechanics for them I wouldn't mind. But I find them too easy to play in chases and boring to play against in them.
Honestly I would've never thought you'd mention Leatherface here. Always thought Bubba was the most hated killer in the game due to him being a notorious camper most of the time.
I actually dislike them too. I find setup and map pressure killers way more fun to play like Hag or Wraith. I wish there were more Killers like that.
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@Wavy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318735#Comment_2318735
SWF is fine and balanced. You cant handle SWF because you are just a bad killer. this is very simple.
Some killers are more unfair than SWF such as blight, nurse, oni, trickster, deathslinger, hag, spirit, clown and trapper
Lol, the amount of troll is over 9000 :D
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@Wavy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318697#Comment_2318697
It gives an unfair advantage tho
I wanted to withstand but I just can't - Want to start talking about SWF with comms like Discord/TS then? I mean when hags Traps are considered "unfair advantage" what's third party applications then? :D
If survivors know what they're doing they can even abuse hags traps against her. All it takes is one survivor constantly following hag and activating her traps at purpose at max distance. The hag will never be able to hit you when you're doing it right and since her chasing power is beyond weak you waste enough of her time to lose her the match.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318542#Comment_2318542
The problem isn't a lack of wanting to change. It's just that the change is bad/boring. Chases against killers like Billy, for example, will always be fun. The new killers chaser powers just make chases boring with inevitable hits regardless of killer/survivor skill really.
At least thats why I find them boring.
Almost every killer since Oni feels like they've been designed around "one sided" fun. I enjoy playing as most of them but my god, they make me want to never play survivor again.
Well except for Billy, what killers are you enjoying to play against?
Thing is most killers that stand a real chance against good players are hated by survivors. I haven't really seen may killers which survivors don't complain about whether it's them being too strong or "not fun playing against".
Most killers survivors don't complain about are the bottom of the bottom tier like Myers. Wraith used to be one of those but the buff he got pretty much escalated him from not being spoken about to "omg nerf right now it's super duper mega deluxe unfun".
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
I mean, OP isn't wrong about recent killers being pretty boring. I feel like every killer since Slinger sans Twins is just sort of the same thing.
That's why I'm being driven away from the game. Disappointing new content.
I think that's partially due to peoples preferences though.
Sure, it's hard to come up with new ideas for killer powers but afaik most people really dislike "setup killers" like trapper and hag. Survivors also hate hit'n'run killers, see Wraith.
Survivors want to get chased because that's the fun of DbD for most survivors. You rarely get chased by a hag or a wraith though because their chase potential is rather weak and their strong side is to catch survivors off guard.
So the devs are pretty much stuck with the "Strong chase power killer". Anything else wouldn't be liked by survivors and maybe also killers.
Look at how people react over the slightest changes in gameplay, recently seen with Nemesis. "AI who helps the killer? Ermagerd, remove it!"
Even though I think that BHVR really lacks in multiple departments, I also think that the "boring killer design as of late" is not due to the lack of creativity but more due to the lack of acceptance of changes from their player base.
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And you're not using reddit in Turkey? Really interesting. Well, different nations different habits I suppose.
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@Iosefka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318174#Comment_2318174
Sorry but i am not native english speaker and i searched “ reddit “. Its forum i guess and nobody knows it in my country
Really? Reddit is the biggest internet forum in existence as of yet. Where are you from if I might ask?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318158#Comment_2318158
They changed it to make it match with the highest rank (in theory) so it should use the Rank 14 to matchmake, +/- 6 ranks.
When did they change that? But +-6 ranks basically more than half of the whole possible range in this scenario anyways, lol.
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@Iosefka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318168#Comment_2318168
Wait is there no MMR in this game ? What the hell. Is rank conditions are really hard then ?
Nope, there is no MMR yet, after 5 years of being released which is really mind-boggling.
As I've said though - they're working on it but there is no release date yet. Could still take some time...
The only thing you can do is to "git gud" in this game and ignore ranks altogether. There literally is no meaning behind ranks. There are more than enough red rank players who can't play the game at all and others are literal gods of destruction in this game.
Just try to enjoy the game, try to improve and eventually you will climb in ranks but don't give ranks any more value than they actually have which is basically none.
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@Iosefka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318158#Comment_2318158
Yes it should work like this but whenever i play with my gf, We get a lot high rank killers
That's due to the aforementioned killer shortage, I assume. There are way more survivors playing this game than killers so survivors get the killer that's available within a certain skill range. The longer you wait, the more the skill range increases. Since you're occupying 2 slots out of 4 your waiting times should logically increase because it's harder to find a match with 2 fixed slots available.
Well that and the match making in this game is reaaaaally bad, as I've mentioned before. They're currently working on an MMR system which hopefully will improve this issue.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318158#Comment_2318158
Average/Mean, not median.
Yeah sorry, english isn't my native language and the word didn't come to my mind.
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Theoretically it should take the median value of your to ranks. So 19+14 = 33 / 2 = 16.5.
Assuming the two other survivors will be rank 16 and rank 17 the killer should also be around 16.
That's the theory! :D
Practically you'll just get whatever killer is available to shorten the waiting time since there's a killer shortage and match making in this game is practically non-existent anyways.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
This is not a thread debating the tactical viability of tunneling. The devs themselves have said that tunneling is acceptable. It is what it is.
What I'm wondering is if anybody else is noticing a huge spike in it lately? I've seen it constantly the past two weeks. I played 8 rounds tonight and was tunneled in literally 4 of them. In this last round it was so bad that the three other Survivors (no hooks, no damage) were even running in front of him to try and draw his attention and body block and he just chased me down and ran around them, hitting them only if he needed to get to me.
I don't understand why this is suddenly what a majority of my matches have become. Red rank Killers, most are Xbox or PC (I just know because it shows they aren't on PS4/5).
On the flip side I've been noticing an increase of gen rushing too. It might just be me but my games feel considerably shorter since around the time the new chapter released.
I also just feel like that "playing nice" as a killer is basically just "play to lose". I've had a match yesterday as Nemesis versus horrible survivors. Just one of them was a good looper and I didn't chase him. Every other survivor lasted 10 to 20 seconds tops in chases. Usually just 10.
I decided not to tunnel anyone in that match and distributed hooks. End of story was that every single survivor escaped with me having 8 hooks.
They didn't last long in chases, they just pressed the living hell out of those gens while it took me 10 seconds to chase someone+5-10 seconds to hook someone+ 10-20 seconds to get to a gen (map was yamaoka estate).
What did I learn from that? If survivors do gens and I play nice by distributing hooks, I'll lose even if they suck at looping. (I was Rank 1 and it was no SWF btw).
This begs the question - why play nice? Why should Killers not capitalize on bad plays of survivors? If a killer doesn't do that he'll just lose and see every survivor t-bag at the gates even though they've played horribly in every aspect of the game which did not solely consist of "hold M1".
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
Quick question what is DDoS’d?
To break it down in a easy to understand way:
DDoS stands for Distributed Denial of Service. It basically works this way that someone sends a huge amount of requests to your IP (most likely your router since it's the only public IP you have) until the targeted device (the router) is no longer able to handle those requests and breaks down thus cutting your internet access off. It doesn't do permanent damage. All you have to do is to reboot the affected device and everything will be back up and running again if the DDoS attack stopped/does not start again.
By definition a DDoS requires attacks/requests from multiple (Distributed), different sources or else it would just be a DoS attack but since technology advanced pretty fast, almost every device is easily able to withstand a DoS (from a single point) attack so the only way to really DoS someone is to DDoS someone if that makes sense.
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@Torsti56 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2315986#Comment_2315986
Perks like that cannot be added when there is killers like Plague and Legion. Maybe obsession perk which works only for obsession.
I was just being sarcastic though.
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Let's go BHVR style and try to fix core issues of the game with the addition of a new Perk!
New Perk added:
Shaky Hands:
"You relentless strikes instill fear and suffering within survivors."
- After you've wounded a Survivor, the wounded Survivor will no longer be able to repair generators until they're fully healed.
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@SHYHERIST said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2307823#Comment_2307823
XDDD A healthy player with the vaccine can survive 3 whips pet chase. 4 health points and 3 speed boosts. Well, what do you say to the survivalists? I think you re even against Trapper buffs. You say that he is imba, so as not to interfere with the gens. Nemesis is not playable on highlights. Good job BHVR, love you.
Not really sure whether you're agreeing with me or not.. my stance on Nemesis is that he is rather lackluster because of the 3 health states and sprint bursts. If that and the horrible AI (zombies getting stuck on literally everything, even in opened doors) were fixed, Nemesis would be a solid killer imo.
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2307794#Comment_2307794
I exclusively play solo the majority of the time as a survivor, I really don't want to have what you have when you play swf like with aura reading and all that, I like the random nature of each match not knowing where everyone is and where the killer is. I enjoy bringing in perks to help me find more information or deciding if I want to be better in chases. You take out all the choices and planning, you leave a lot of perks useless, like what's the point of strategizing if you are just going to simplify it for every game. It's more boring if you make every match swf level swf is boring and sucks the fun out of the game for me. :c
Agreed - this is also obviously how the game was designed to be played. There's a reason for randomized tiles/pallets/gens and absolutely no way of communicating within the game except for hand signs.
Yes, I know, the Devs have SWF channels on their discord but that's beside the point and doesn't change the fact that the game was designed for solo play. If the devs really intended survivors to communicate they'd have implemented a voice chat or at least a text chat within the game.
The discord channels are just there because they realized how popular SWF is afterwards and it's generating mucho cash for them.
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@Venzhas said:
Maybe I misread but i still didnt get The "infected" status
I know that the more he infects survs or kicks zombies, the more he gains power
Yup ure infected blue. Why you would use the vaccine ? If the Nemesiss power grows by contamination whats the survivors purpose to vaccine themselves and give him more power if theyre already infected once ? Does his power reducing when you use vaccines ?
Multiple reasons:
- Nemesis still gets mutation when hitting you while you're infected, so it doesn't matter that much.
- Nemesis gets incredibly oppressive once he hit T2 (need 2 hits on survivors for that so he'll always reach T2 rather fast) AND if you're infected because he shuts down every loop.
- Curing yourself doesn't take that long.
- Zombies are no threat without being infected
- Getting infected gives you a free Sprint Burst in chase. If you cure yourself you get 2+ free Sprint Bursts per match, amazing!
- Nemesis is just an M1 pleb without infected survivors.
- You're no longer blue, if you don't like the color.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think people commonly mistake the ease of playing one side for the appeal of playing that side. As a goofy example, let's compare watching paint dry for 10 minutes with playing Dark Souls for 10 minutes. The former is obviously easier, but I guarantee you if you asked 100 people to choose which one they'd prefer the latter would be there more popular option. Then there's the fact that you can't play killer in public matches with your friends, so even players that would prefer playing killer in a vacuum will play survivor if they have buddies who want to party up.
Game balance is only one small part of the equation here. Right now matchmaking is by far a bigger factor in match outcomes than overall game balance.
You're absolutely right. While I do enjoy the killer gameplay far more than the survivor gameplay, I'd sometimes enjoy a chill survivor match for myself but I just cba to wait 10 minutes just to get into a lobby thus I mostly just don't even try to queue up as a survivor except if there are 1-2 friends I want to play with.
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@KingFrost said:
I think tru is wrong that you can balance the game toward the top 1%. You simply can't. There's WAY too much of a gap between 4 random solo players and 4 coordinated players with a specific plan, communication, stretched res, and every advantage they can possibly get. Just can't be done. Even if you gave everyone comms, it wouldn't be near the same level because it's still 4 random people on the internet.
They still could balance around the top 1%. It'd just make the game feel worse for solos but that's probably what you're on about.
I agree that you can't balance DbD around the top 1% without absolutely hurting the games overall health and this isn't even needed. DbD is no hardcore competitive e-sports game and that's fine. People need to be a bit more chilled an stop thinking that DbD is the new League of Legends or CS:GO and just accept that this is not a tournament worthy game, even though there are tournaments for... amusement I assume... held.
What you could do though is that you can bring solos closer to the level of coordination SWFs would be capable of and then adjust the killers/survivors accordingly to that. This would narrow the gap of the top 1% and the average match making. This again would make your average solo survivor team a bit stronger while also making killers a bit stronger against sweaty SWFs which then again would make killer less frustrating to play and in return there would probably be more people playing killer which would lower the Q time for survivors.
I think that's a reasonable request to make and it would benefit killers as well as solo survivors.