Schardon
Schardon
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Probably when DbD no longer holds a monopoly and a proper competitor gets released. If that competitor is better balanced and/or more fun then I'll probably just switch over.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302100#Comment_2302100
Almost all of his addons need a complete rework. His power needs a rework (as his map does). I doubt the devs will make so many changes within the next year. Just look at the last 2 killers. No significant buffs or reworks.
I agree. The map is beautiful to look at but it's a nightmare to play on. I don't have much hope for a major rework but given how huge the RE franchise is and the last 2 killers were not licensed killers, I still have a tiny little bit of hope left.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302008#Comment_2302008
The whole idea of his "power" is a problem. Infection does nothing to survivors. So the only reason for survivors to cure the infection is that he needs another tentacle strike to down them.
His addons are build around making the cure dangerous, by prolonging the opening of the chests, exposing them or removing a chest. Which is ridiculous, since there is no downside for being infected. Unlike Plagues infection, which at least exposes survivors and prevents them from doing objects to avoid getting infected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWBHohzOuA&ab_channel=int3r4ct
This video explains his addons in detail, and most of them are not only bad, but terrible! (licker tongue...)
I'm aware of the fact that Nemesis is rather lackluster and needs buffs/fixed.
His power was obviously changed shortly before release thus addons don't make any sense as well as the hindered status effect.
I think though, that Nemesis would be quite strong IF the initial speed boost on infection was gone and adorns would be reworked. You could also argue that larger maps need more zombies and that being infected actually has downsides for survivors but the latter could possibly make him too strong. Not too sure though.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2299076#Comment_2299076
So... instead of being weak, he´s 5 times weaker.
I think what he meant is that the basis of Nemesis' design is pretty solid and has potential to be strong but there are just some oversights/bugs/nuances that have to get fixed in order to enable him.
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@xerav said:
Landing hits with his M2 is not the problem (its your job to predict the survivors location it takes 0.35sec to charge and then 0.25 to come out - you can also correct the hitbox of the tentacle mid animation to some degree).
The ONLY buff he needs is the removal of the free speed boost on first infection.
This. I think Nemesis would be a very solid killer once the infection speed boost is gone. Not too OP and not too UP.
Currently Nemesis is oppressive vs. your "average to bad" survivor but against semi-competent survivors who know how to hold Shift W he's wasting too much time on chasing 4 Sonic the Hedgehogs.
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@papichulo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2301274#Comment_2301274
It doesnt need to. It specifically hits survivors from 10 meters i think? plus againkiller speeds are higher than survivor. you can just quickly catch up.
After reading all your posts you also gotta see some facts.
Yes, you're faster than the survivor but you give them 2 speed boosts before being able to down them. If they're smart and just hold Shift+W, they waste a huge amount of time for the killer which is critical. They don't even have to be good at looping to waste a huge amount of time. Nemesis has no mobility outside of his 115% movement speed.
"Just eat DS" also wastes another 5 seconds of being stunned followed by yet another chase. You already lost gen pressure because you were chasing the survivor through 2 speed boosts and then you lose even more gen pressure due to the stun and another chase.
If I'd chase after a survivor through 2 speed boosts and pick him up after downing him just to get DSed and then chase him again in red ranks, I've probably already lost 3 gens before finding another survivor during that time.
And lastly - it's 5 meters on T1&2 and 6 on T3.
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Honestly - what's the point? I've never understood the point of the existence of the post game chat.
90% of the time it's just someone insulting someone else. 10% of the time it's for "gg wp".
Sure, the latter is good behavior and nice to read but... what value does that hold? I'd rather pass on the rare "gg wp" to get rid of all the "mimimi <insert super salt mode here> QQQQQ".
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
It's because most survivor are pretty bad at the game.Combine this with crappy matchmaking and you'll see why kill rates are so high.
However if you put 4 really good survivors against a killer things will look completely different.
The game balance is mostly fine in your average public game but pretty much breaks in really high level/comp level gameplay
Not only that. You have to factor in Tome Challenges. While killer challenges are basically just your usual objective anyways and you don't divert from playing your usual game at all - the survivor challenges are more often pretty weird and you need to go out of your way to complete them.
In casual play this makes survivors not play at their A-game and not efficient at tall, thus giving the killer way more time to 3/4k. A sweaty competitive team however would never do that. They play to win, not to complete their tome, while many casuals play to complete their tome and put that before actually winning.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
It's because most survivor are pretty bad at the game.Combine this with crappy matchmaking and you'll see why kill rates are so high.
However if you put 4 really good survivors against a killer things will look completely different.
The game balance is mostly fine in your average public game but pretty much breaks in really high level/comp level gameplay
Not only that. You have to factor in Tome Challenges. While killer challenges are basically just your usual objective anyways and you don't divert from playing your usual game at all - the survivor challenges are more often pretty weird and you need to go out of your way to complete them.
In casual play this makes survivors not play at their A-game and not efficient at tall, thus giving the killer way more time to 3/4k. A sweaty competitive team however would never do that. They play to win, not to complete their tome, while many casuals play to complete their tome and put that before actually winning.
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@NekoTorvic said:
I think the speed itself isnt a problem. The biggest problem for me is how safe gens are and how little they require from survivors.
Holding M1 and occasionally getting a "are you awake" check is pitiful for a mechanic, and most survivors think it's dreadfully boring. They need to be harder or more demanding in some way.
Both because of big maps and because of the terror radius mechanic, gens are just too safe. All you have to do is start running as soon as you hear a TR and most M1 killers would waste too much time catching up to even bother. Kicking them does nothing, and then all you have to do is go back and keep holding m1. It's too safe.
I mean apart from additional objectives they could just make it so gen skill checks become increasingly more difficult to hit the longer you are repairing a gen. Or just make it so that Great Skill Checks are required to progress while Good Skill Checks slightly regress your gen, like old Ruin.
Sure that'd be a pretty hefty nerf for new players but I honestly despise playing survivor solely because of how boring it is to hold M1. Yeah, I could let myself get chased for the entire match (if I was good enough at that) but that's not my point. Gen repair is too generic and doesn't require any kind of skill.
Good Skill Checks could at least be harder to hit... It's basically impossible to miss a skill check if you're not absolutely distracted by your cat suddenly setting your curtains on fire.
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@van9684 said:
Survivors being toxic isn’t game breaking where as with killer, they can take an entire game hostage if they’re in a bad mood. Survivors play to have fun. Killers play to get a 4K. It will never be fully balanced as the grind is so much different between killer and survivor. It’s refreshing to see a good survivor or survivor team.
That is fundamentally and factually wrong though.
A killer can never hold a game hostage at all. He has absolutely no power over the length of the match. The only party who can control the flow of time within a match are the survivors.
If a killer camps someone you can still do gens and finish the game. Dying on hook takes 2 minutes. If survivors are efficient they could theoretically and without toolboxes and perks, fully repair 4 gens during this time. Yes, they could do that. 80 Seconds for a single survivor to repair a gen on his own. Takes this x3 and you have 3 gens repaired in 80 seconds. It takes 3 survivors 38 seconds to repair one gen. That's 4 gens in 118 seconds which is 2 seconds short of someone dying on a hook. Of course you would have to calculate in the time to run to those gens but you also have to calculate in the time it takes the killer to down a survivor and hook him.
I know, this doesn't happen in 99,9% of the games, but it's possible.
BTT: Even if the killer slugs everyone the game will within 4 minutes.
Survivors are the only role that can completely hold the game hostage with 0 progression being possible by repairing 4 gens fully and the last gen to 99%. After that they can just hide or (if they're good enough) loop the killer for an eternity.
No matter what the killer does - the game will either end by itself or can be finished by survivors.
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My take on Nemesis is that I really love him and I actually, from the bottom of my heart, want to main him.
I think he's a decent killer with some issues that could easily be fixed. He's pretty solid against your random survivor group but a competent SWF on comms stomps him, as far as I can tell at least.
Issues are that the AI of the zombies is absolute garbage. Not only do zombies regularly get stuck in OPEN DOORS and trees and such so you manually have to wobble over their to kill and reset them to get part of your power back into the game (part of your killer power basically disables itself randomly during the match) but the zombies also rarely hit.
Playing around those zombies sometimes is hugely rewarding but I barely notice them in most games except for the built in information they give me and even that information is sometimes misleading since more often then not zombies just pretend to chase someone while nobody is in its vicinity. Well, at least I couldn't find the survivor he was chasing at all. No scratch marks, no blood, no sound, no one hiding behind a tile. Nothing.
The speed boost on his first tentacle hit seems a bit off. It works but most of the time it feels like I'm slowing myself down when using it.
His counter play basically boils down to "hold W" because he gives you 2 speed boosts before being able to down you. Due to his lack of mobility this alone wastes a good amount of time for him even if you're not that great of a looper. Furthermore you can just cleanser the infection. If played optimally by survivors Nemesis grants survivors 8 extra health states with 8 extra Sprint Bursts during one match which is a big oof.
Lastly he obviously was changed shortly before release since his hindered status effect + his daily ritual don't make any sense on his current iteration. This needs to be looked at/fixed.
TLDR: I love Nemesis but he has issues.
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I, as a killer, never looked at charms. No, seriously, NEVER. If I hadn't played survivor then I wouldn't even have known that survivors wear their charms at their belt. I honestly would never have noticed that.
As a side note - I've never noticed any killer and/or survivor play differently because of charms. Killers and survivors, in my games at least, don't care about a pride charm or any other charm. At least as far as I've noticed but then again it's not really indicative since I wouldn't even have noticed if somebody in my games had the pride charm equipped. xD
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I think this could lead to the "issue" that probably most killers would surrender as soon as they recognize an SWF. Sometimes the indications of the lobby are not enough to be sure it's an SWF but you start to notice many things once you play against them.
I reckon many would just surrender 2-4 minutes into the game because they realized it's an SWF.
Furthermore since there is basically no point and reward of the ranking system the "surrender button" would basically be nothing else than a free DC without a penalty. What do I care if I lose 1 or even 2 pips? I seriously couldn't care less in this game except when I do a challenge or something like that.
This could even be abused further by chain surrendering just to de-rank so you can play against baby survivors again. Of course you could prevent that by banning people who surrender too often but that just, again, brings a rat tail of other issues.
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@Haddix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286904#Comment_2286904
it's nothing like ph mang. PH has a 1 second charge up time with a massive delay for his attack. takes about 1.5 seconds to fully send out, maybe more? nemesis hits you in under half a second whenever he wants.
go against it man. I've been both playing and playing against him. his counterplay is just holding W. you cannot loop him if he has any idea of what he's doing.
like, you can't tell me you're playing PH and getting ranged shot after ranged shot through walls all the time. those are gimmick shots. PH literally just zones and waits for you to animation lock yourself.
That's a pretty obvious issue though, isn't it? Apart from the fact that "holding W" should never be a viable counter play to any killer since there is literally 0 skill involved and even my cat could pull that off without breaking a sweat, the fact that Nemesis grants you TWO speed boosts in one single chase (one on infection and one on hit) is making "lul hold W" way too strong against him especially since he has absolutely no mobility.
This issue absolutely breaks his neck. Hold W to the other side of the map. If he follows you, he easily wastes enough time that 2 gens fly before you're able to get back on some maps.
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As someone who messes up almost every flash light save he's trying to do I say it's fine the way it is and should not be made easier. It's ok to have certain game mechanics which are not accessible to absolutely every casual player in existence.
I mean while we're at it we could also double the amount of available pallets and windows so every casual who can't be asked to remember the map layouts has an easier time to get from one loop to another loop without getting hit/downed because it's too hard to remember the RNG tile spawns and which pallets already got dropped/destroyed on the fly.
Multiplayer games need room for self-improvement. If a game is so simple that everybody can pull off absolutely everything the game has to offer immediately, the game becomes very stale and boring.
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I think it's pretty well known that really competent survivors with voice are in charge of the game and the majority of the killer roster can't compete with the power of an optimized SWF.
Tru3 is a good player but it was pretty obvious he won't stomp a comp team with Wraith.
That being said - DbD is not a competitive game even if people want to make it look like one.
No proper Matchmaking
Heavy RNG due to tile spawns
The game being designed around the fact survivors can't communicate but .. voice chat
An Addon System that relies on RNG (Blood Web) and ig currency
Killer power gaps - for example Nurse vs. Myers
Keys and previsouly Moris
Unpredictable abilities (Addons and Perks you can't adjust your play style to before it potentially already has done its damage)
In it's current state this game is probably the farthest it can be from being a competitive e-sports game and that's fine. Not every game is supposed to be a super competitive e-sports title.
This game is a casual game you can enjoy and have fun with. There are just some people who want to take this game further than it's supposed to be but imho this game would ned a complete overhaul to be remotely close to being an e-sport title.
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@Chewy102 said:
Saying just give it a shot. Can't end up being worse than a few bad games.
That 8% adds up to a fair amount over as many times and as many gens as you can use it on. Pop's 25% is better by far, but Pop can often have that be wasted if you don't kick within the time limit or don't have a progressed enough gen nearby. Eruption is what Surge should have been.
I've been running that build because I didn't have anything else to use and wanted to maximize my BP gain (thus BBQ) for some matches.
My take on it: BBQ is not needed (I just ran it because of the BP) Nemesis has enough info bc of zombies and vaccines already. Eruption also often enough gives you information about survivors because it shows you the aura of survivors who're working on erupting gens.
PoP + Eruption looks pretty solid on paper but I've noticed that I couldn't use my PoP on a gen I needed to PoP on many occasions because it was blasted by Eruption a few seconds earlier and nobody touched it yet, so I had to "waste" my PoP on another nearby gen that barely had any progression. It's probably a good combination most of the time though but I'm still not really convinced by the usefulness of Eruption. It could use a small buff imo. For example that it does not longer prevent the survivors to work on the gen who worked on the gen while it was erupting but rather to prevent the gen from being worked on in general.
I'm also on the fence about LP. I love it and it feels absolutely marvelous at the start of the match but it also feels like a wasted perk slot after your first chase that could be used for gen regression/slow down. So yeah, cool perk and I really like it but I'm not sure if it's worth the slot if you already know where survivors could possible spawn. Especially if you could run something like Corrupt Intervention which seems superior to me because it blocks half the gens which either already narrows down the area survivors could run to after spawning or stall gen progress for 120 seconds.
CI already kind of does a similar job as LP, it's just not as precise but has other additional features.
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@SloppyVoldemort said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281719#Comment_2281719
You should. He's obviously trolling. Don't feed the troll.
I'm pretty certain too but you can't be too sure about that on the internet. There are people who are that dense.
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@LilCrapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281730#Comment_2281730
and he is still here. talking with me. after saying he wouldnt. Hi again stranger. No i will not give you my personal information
Just decided to go for one more post before having to drive since this is quite entertaining. I'll leave you now, I swear.
Oh and just in case you need it because the last sentence contained more than 5 words:
TLDR: Bye :)
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@LilCrapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281719#Comment_2281719
thanks!!!! Im really upset about parting ways with you.... Next time, stop. Think. AM I READING THIS OUT OF CONTEXT?
Keep going, you already lost your high ground. I'm having a good laugh right now.
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@LilCrapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281693#Comment_2281693
TLDR past you must be really upset
thanks for the story, must have taken a long time to write. Go back, read my previous comment
Another reasonable response from you I see. I guess I'll just stop communicating with you as I actually really expected precisely this response.
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@killerdeadman323 said:
SO. Tommson house. Top floor. Your doing a gen and you dont notice a zombies coming. Heart beat starts. You get off the gen hide around the cornor at the window where you can drop down the hole and get away. Zombie comes through the door. AROUND the cornor of the top floor. Then neme. Ik terrible timing my fault. Zombie spots me and the killer sees me because of it. Then the zombie body blocks the window and the killer comes through the window. I try to move past the zombie, but i get hit. So you'd think collisions gone. Nope. Zombie hits me again. Then neme. Why didnt they remove it.
Well, I think most will agree here and some won't but that's actually besides the point, I think. This seems like an oversight from the Devs and will probably be removed at some point when they figured out how to do it without breaking something else.
Thanks for that though. Now I know I have to look out for that.
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@LilCrapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280718#Comment_2280718
It holds a value. Its called in-game progression. If i was the lead Dev in this game, You wouldnt get squat!!! Why give you free stuff, when you can play the game longer??? More time for players to get what they want, means more time the game is alive, which means more time being a cash cow. Economics
Its CLEAR that BloodPoints hold value, otherwise OP would never had come here to complain like a toddler. OR the person i replied to below.......
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2279939#Comment_2279939
Cry more about FREE stuff. Cry LOUDER, and see where it gets you........ The more you whine about FREE stuff, the less likely you will continue to receive FREE stuff
The game is literally FIVE YEARS OLD!!!! and you are crying about FREE stuff and expansions..... ALMOST every developer and publisher out there WILL NOT continue development and progression of a game past one year, TWO if its really successful
EDIT: count your blessing... The game is still alive, and still expanding. You are doing nothing to help the game by making childish complaints
TL;DR cry more receive less
Jesus ... you seem incredibly upset about my comment.
Good thing you're not the lead Dev I suppose since you didn't even really understand what I was saying.
First of all I never cried about the 300k, nor did I complain about it. I was pretty happy about them actually since Nemesis just released and the 1M BP I saved up only gave me crap Perks in the Bloodweb, so those 300k were really useful. At least I ended up with 1 gen regression Perk...wohoo.
I merely stated that BP don't have any real value for the Devs per se which still is true. Devs can give you as much BP as they'd like without loosing anything of real value if it's within a reasonable margin ofc but I didn't think I had to specify that further in order to not go people completely bonkers over this statement.
It's a given that it'd hurt the game if the Devs would just gift everyone 9999999999999999999BP so everybody has everything unlocked instantly. But we're speaking about 300k here. If you really push your limits that's even less than you can get from 3 games as a Killer, so again - Devs don't lose anything here.
For you, as a player, BP ofc do have value but I haven't been talking about that.
Also the Devs have complete control over the value BP can hold for their customers. They can inflate and deflate this arbitrary currency as they see fit at any given point. They could theoretically even completely revamp the whole system within the next month if they wanted to. As the game keeps progressing this currency inflates more and more because more Perks, Killers, Survivors and items get released thus requiring new players to grind even longer. Look at the amount of BP you have to collect to unlock absolutely everything in this game nowadays and the rate at which new DLCs get released. I'm pretty certain that I, as a causal player, will probably never reach the point of having everything the game has to offer unlocked before the game dies off at some point and I'm not even talking about P3 on everybody.
Furthermore what you're saying is highly debatable. Most companies keep developing their multiplayer games if they're successful enough and make them enough profit (... "simple Economics" I suppose?) -> LoL, DotA2, CS:GO, WoW (and other MMORPGs), SC2 until recently, HotS until recently (both of them being well over 5 years old), Fortnite also gets old. Some more extrem examples would be FiFa, CoD and the like which not only keep developing the game but sell a yearly update at full prize to milk their customers even more.
While we're at it - yes, the game is 5 years old. You know what else pretty much every multiplayer game in existence that is not older than 15 years has on initial release or at least implemented within the first few patch cycles? Proper Matchmaking with MMR. Still in development after 5 years. I mean... just some food for thought. Are we allowed to complain about that?
And lastly looking at the phrasing of your comment it's really hypocritical to call OP out for making "childish complaints like a toddler". His complaint was more reasonably phrased than your comment.
I mean in the end I kind of agree with you. Complaining about free 300k BP just because you can't play the new map immediately is questionable at best. The devs withdrew the new map for a good reason, it was breaking the game and I'll gladly play a working game without the new map over a broken game with the new map but holy cow you need to chill out a bit.
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@Purgatorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281207#Comment_2281207
They looked for it though so they could have closed it immediately without guiding the survivor to it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2281204#Comment_2281204
I would rather hook them than I would waste time and shut it in their face. Clickers and t baggers are annoying but would not lower myself to their level.
Me neither. I either carry them to the hatch (if they don't wiggle free before that) and give them hatch or I close the hatch and kill them. Depending on the situation and survivor. I'd never to something so petty like dropping a survivor in front of the hatch and then close it in front of his face. I don't even do that to toxic survivors. They lost, that's enough embarrassment after being a toxic taunting guy.
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Probably for the same reason why there are full SWF squads that spam click their flashlights at killers and t-bag at the exit gate. It's to annoy the other side. So basically just a childish behavior.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280886#Comment_2280886
Yes I never disagreed with it being a matchmaking issue although I believe there are some problematic killers like Freddy and Spirit. The first MMR test was amazing for me, almost every game was really close and balanced and all the games I was in averaged around a 2K so it was really good. I have 1400 hours and I get matched with teammates who have as low as 80 hours, it's not a fair game if I have 1300 more hours than my teammates.
Imagine if a game like League of Legends matched people like that, it would be terrible.
Yes, League of Legends would probably be dead by now. I'm surprised this game still is so popular even due to this horrendous matchmaking but that's probably just because it doesn't have any proper competition. If there was a competitor to DbD as there is DotA2 to LoL, I imagine this game having a rough time.
Gotta be honest here - some days I'm like "well this game is fun" other days I'm like "I'm gonna uninstall it now for good.. I can't be asked to deal with this anymore" depending on what matches I get.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280831#Comment_2280831
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AUNVYB3IBNFR/image.png
No it's separated by all ranks and red ranks. The kill rate actually goes way down at all ranks, they become more powerful at red ranks. That's because the matchmaking is really bad and it's way easier to learn killer than survivor but there is a serious problem that in the average game almost every killer gets above a 65% kill rate and it needs to change.
That, again, is a matchmaking issue though. You can't just nerf almost every killer because the matchmaking in this game is non-existent. BHRV should just implement a MM already. I mean seriously, every PvP game has it... it's embarrassing not to have it after 5 years of being released.
A Killer having 75% kill rate means that he sometimes gets 4ks and sometime just gets 2k. Averaging around 3k so 75%. With everything below 75% those killers more often than not just get 2ks.
Idk about you but I'd rather sit around rank 10 and have balanced matches than to sit at rank 1 and either get absolutely stomped as Killer or I absolutely stomp survivors.
Because that what my games look like most of the time. Either I get 1k if even that or I 4k everyone without a sweat. I don't have "close" games most of the time because the MM is horrible. THIS is what has to get fixed.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280769#Comment_2280769
Semi competent survivors can actually whup nemsis with this one simple trick. Focus on holding w and use your additional sprint burst to prolong the chase. He either lets you go or continues chasing which is a pretty big lose lose. This isn't making an anti swf death squad killer its about making a competent killer.
We have examples of killer like plague who is balanced and dosent have the obnoxious multiple hits to down. A lot of people only want minor buffs on nemsis taking away the 3 hits to down and dropping it to two is all thats really needed. The zombie ai is gonna need tweaks and I'm not talking buffs only.
The facecamping zombie issues needs to be looked at and potentially limit zombie attack behaviour so it dosent trigger whilst the survivor is in chase. Though this mechanic is the first we have seen in dbd so wait and see might be best for the zombies.
This is one thing I agree with. It's less of a problem on smaller maps but on large maps this becomes an issue. The speed boost granted by the first tentacle gives them enough space to get to a new loop. The second speed boost does the same. Eventually the survivor will of course go down but the time spent to down a survivor is just immense.
You either have to commit a huge amount of time to down a survivor or you have to drop the chase and go for someone else which can work on smaller maps but on large maps it can also be a death sentence for Nemesis since he has absolutely no mobility. So dropping the chase is on many maps under most circumstances not an option so you're stuck to chasing someone for minutes.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280797#Comment_2280797
Every killer is above a 50% kill rate. And most of the roster is 60%+. It would be a balanced game if every killer had 50% but it's not even close.
That's less of a balancing issue and more of a combination of matchmaking + balancing.
Those statistics include kill rates of every rank. Killers tend to be way stronger at higher ranks but start to lose power as they get closer to red ranks.
Some Killers are busted though, I agree with that. Nurse would be one of them. On the other hand though you NEED those Killers to exist because a competent SWF can stomp almost every killers except for a few ones.
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@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280782#Comment_2280782
Of course you would do well with spirit and wraith, these killers are broken. You know that if they buff him to the point where he 4ks these squads he will give causal survivors no chance. Some survivors are too good for the game, you can’t buff killers just because there is a chance that you might play against someone with 10k hours.
Is PH broken too? I could've even done better with Doctor I suppose.
What you're saying here is, in its core, absolutely correct. It just highlights the other huge issue this game has though. Either the game should be balanced so death squads don't have such a huge potential of absolutely breaking the game mechanics or give casual survivors more room to play and adjusting the killers power according to that.
OR you implement a friggin Matchmaking already. This game not having any kind of MMR after 5 years is just embarrassing. I reckon most balance complaints would be solved by just having a proper Matchmaking system in place.
I was in red ranks as a Killer after my first 40 hours within the game. How was it fair to pair me up against 4x 10k hour guys on Discord/TS?
You just can't have a game being where the Killers power is limited because of "average" teams while you also have death squads running around in the same match making pool.
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@gendoss said:
Trust me it's not just you, it's all of solo queue. Some killers have a kill rate as high as 75%. Every killer has above a 50% kill rate too so the game is way killer favored right now.
If you go against a Freddy you literally have a 1/4 chance of escaping that game. That's how broken some killers are.
How's a 50% kill rate "killer sided"? You do realize you're not the only survivor in a match, right? With a kill rate of 50% the killer basically kills 2 out of 4 survivors per match, which is precisely what an "even outcome" would be. Anything less then 50% would gravitate to game to be massively survivor sided...
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@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280766#Comment_2280766
How likely are you to play against competent survivors though? You are acting like everyone plays in a swf death squad.
I was thinking the same until yesterday. That's why I may be a bit but biased I swear I encountered that 4 times in a row yesterday on Nemesis and was able to secure 1-3 hooks top in each of those matches. It was beyond frustrating.
On release I easily 2-4ked with him but yesterday was just unplayable. Just showed me the potential of Nemesis which is just lackluster in higher skill tiers.. I'm certain I could've easily done better against those teams on Wraith, Spirit or PH, for example.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280727#Comment_2280727
That's why I mentioned playing with your zombies to make it easier. And loads of killers have that weak start up. Thats why I compared him to Myers, not because of them both having 3 tiers to their powers, but they both give a slow start for a strong end game.
You have no chance at winning against anyone if you remain an M1 killer for the trial. That's why you have to get your power up and running early when there are generators to be done and pallets to go around.
You can't always just play with your zombies though since 1) their AI is really bad and 2) 2 zombies on maps like Red Forest are basically non existent. If they wouldn't have auras for Nemesis then you'd probably wouldn't even know they spawned until the end of the match.
I think his infection state has too much draw backs and slows him down too much. Same as Myers, there's a reason why he's at the bottom of the roster.
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@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280706#Comment_2280706
You know that you don’t even need to hit them with the tentacle if that is such a problem for you. It could be used to break doors and pallets. I think he is balanced as he is.
Yes I do know that. It's not "such a problem for me" it's a problem for many people as you can see on these forums. He's the only Killer in this game that requires 3 hits to down someone with his power. If you're just using your power to destroy pallets and doors then you're basically just an M1 Killer with low mobility and a small distance pallet break mechanic. Even Wraith can do that better then Nemesis though.
Balanced in what sense? Balanced for the average survivor random groups - maybe. He absolutely gets stomped by competent and coordinated survivors though.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
I think it's worth it for one reason, and that's because although he starts off slow, over time he becomes stronger and can two hit survivors.
Zombies are useless if you just let them roam free and never try to chase survivors near them, but I've had many times in my already few games where I've seen a zombie on a loop, forced a survivor to run into them and I attack with my power at around the same time to get 2 free hits.
He's like a combination of myers and pyramid head. Yes he starts off slow like Myers, but you have to use power to get stronger regardless of that slow start, as not only is his power extremely forgiving (as survivors can run back into your talk to get hit) but it also saves a lot of time in the long run when it comes to breaking pallets.
The thing is though that you can negate up to 8 hits by Nemesis without being healed by someone else / having a MedKit. So you have to go through the Sprint Bursts for multiple times.
By the time you reach your highest power level 1 gen is left because all survivors have to do is hold W. Especially his first chase is god awful. He can't break pallets with his power, has low reach and can't even hurt a survivor. So you either have to give your first two victims a free Sprint Burst into freedom or you decide to become to a M1 killer.
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@aroell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280144#Comment_2280144
What should they do about the ai? Make them do the killers for for them? They are fine as they are. And I think the speed boost is completely fine. Survivors only have 4 vaccines.
Idk, maybe give them some kind of collision avoidance so they don't get stuck on a tree for the entire match until Nemesis wobbles over the whole map to destroy it? I've played 5 matches yesterday, in each of them at least 1 zombie got stuck and couldn't free himself. That's fine to you?
Those 4 vaccines negate 8 hits by Nemesis and grant survivors a temporary free Perk. So survivors basically start the match with 1 free Sprint Burst each. If they decide to vaccinate they get a second Sprint Burst for the cost of a few seconds opening a chest and injecting. How's that fine on a Killer that has no mobility?
What other Killer has to hit survivors 3 times to down them on top of giving them a Sprint Burst without hurting them?
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@killer_dog20 said:
I think he is a bit unbalanced cuz his tantacles can destroy pallets and hit survivors. I mean it's a bit op don't you think cuz he doesn't need to get close his tentecles are a mid-range weapon so he doesn't get stunned and destroys the pallets. if you think that is balanced. plus he can just power up his tantacles and damage survivors over corners because of hit box of his tantacles.Buff, no, he needs a nerf.
But survivors being rewarded with a free Sprint Burst by being hit by the Killer without being damaged is fine? Do you realize how huge this Sprint Burst is against a Killer with basically no mobility? Nemesis is literally the only Killer in the game that has to land 3 hits in order to down someone. The first hit can even be cured by limited vaccines.
Loop Nemesis for a minute before being hit by his tentacle for the first time because his power basically is no threat before T2 -> get hit by tentacle -> Hold W and watch 2-3 gens being completed before you get hooked for the first time if you're at least semi-competent at looping.
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My biggest issues with Nemesis are the zombies and him needing 3 attacks to down someone with his power.
His zombie being part of his "kit" makes it so the rest of his kit can't be too strong by itself. If his tentacle was stronger the zombies would probably be too much in theory but the zombies, as of now, are absolutely horrible. The only time the zombies are useful is if they randomly decide to walk into a loop where you're chasing a survivor or when they interrupt unhooking/gens.
All of those scenarios are quite rare while the second one can be easily countered by survivors because zombies get stuck on basically everything.
This plus the fact that 2 zombies on Red Forest are basically non existent. 2 Zombies are fine on maps like Treatment Theater. It's a small map and an in-door map. Zombies can't wander around too much without being rendered useless. On huge out-door maps like Red Forest there should be at least 3-4 Zombies imo. Especially given the low mobility of Nemesis. He can't just zoom around like Billy or Oni.
His tentacle requiring 3 hits AND giving the survivor a speed boost on the first hit is dumb. It should bei either one of those but not both. Especially given how many vaccines are available on the map it gets even worse. Imo there are too many. I find myself needing to re-infect survivors way too much. So his power, which should actually accelerate my kill speed slows me down more often than not.
Sure, I get Killer Instinct whenever someone vaccines but this actually doesn't do anything on Nemesis if we're honest. Nemesis already has decent information due to his zombies and he probably can't even get to the freshly vaccinated survivor because of his low mobility.
I think Nemesis would be a pretty good killer if the zombie count would be adjusted on map size and his tentacle hit would be slightly reworked to either always hurt survivors (so the infection basically just makes them vulnerable to zombies and make them louder due to puking) or to not grant the survivors a speed boost on the first hit.
I mean seriously... Hold W is super effective on DbD especially against Killers with low mobility (like Nemesis). Having to go through 2 Speed boosts before being able to down someone is ridiculous imo.
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@Yatol said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2278391#Comment_2278391
If you're in red ranks then its normal that you're going to face SWF
Yes it is and I'm used to it but I've never had the issue of facing 4 super efficient SWFs in a row where I got 1-3 hooks top.
My matches usually end with at least 2 kills, most of the time 3-4. But yesterday... absolutely no chance of having fun. I was vastly outmatched in basically every game I played.
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@Yatol said:
no but rank reset was 3days ago so some might have not played until the time of your post
I don't think that really applies to me since I'm in red ranks already anyways.
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@BabyCameron10 said:
Who thought it was a good idea to bring MMR back? It just screwed solo players even more. I am being paired with urban evading players and dying on first hook because I am being paired with awful teammates who refuse to save and hide from the killer. This game is currently more awful than before when playing solo atm, just awful.
I have yet to try out killer with MMR on but we will see.
The thing with MMR is that it needs to adjust it self before it actually works properly. Judging ANY MMR system after playing a few games is a horrible idea. This is why placement matches exist in pretty much every PvP game. You need to play a certain amount of games before the system has a ROUGH idea about your skill level. After that it gradually improves further the more games you've played.
It's absolutely to be expected to have awful matchmaking if you introduce MMR systems after 5 years of a game being released.
The skill difference between players is absolutely humongous and ranks don't reflect that because even at rank 1 there are potatoes.
I can't tell how devs approached the initial MMR of every individual player. Usually everybody starts from the exact same point from which on they steadily stray apart based on their own skill. But due this game being out for 5 years it's possible the devs have some algorithm to distribute different MMR ratings to players based on their game history. I don't know and I can't tell.
Anyways, the point of this whole argument is that you shouldn't be too worried about having a few bad matches after MMR gets introduced. MMR will balance itself out over time. The more games you and others have played the more accurate it will become.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2250627#Comment_2250627
having 2 separate lobbies will never solve anything because sweaty players will just troll casual players in the casual mode anyway. especially considering the fact that people already smurf now to bully new players. casual lobbies would effectively be the same as they are today, except even more of a joke at times. maybe people would be less inclined to throw their ranked games for tome challenges though, which is a point I think few have considered.
other than that, I think facing SWFs all the time at high ranks would be miserable for most people. and people with big egos would harass killers even more knowing that their rank had been given a tangible meaning.
that does bring up another point: why do we not have an anonymous mode yet? half the annoyance of facing SWFs is the embarrassment/frustration of losing to people who'll ######### talk you amongst themselves after the game, or during their stream if they're streamers. the weight of playing killer could be eased a bit outside of the game if they gave people the tools to remain anonymous (outside of the report system of course).
I don't think there will be 2 lobbies either especially given how DbD struggles with queue times here and there. I just mentioned it because I've seen it mentioned a couple of times on these forums in the past few days and I thought that I may have missed some announcement about there being 2 lobbies in the future.
I've never mentioned anything about facing SWFs all the time. My suggestion was to just match SWFs with slightly higher rated Killers to balance out the communication advantage.
Coming to your last point - I honestly don't really understand why the devs even implemented a post game chat to begin with. There's literally no reason to have it other than the rare "you did really good bud" which happens like once every 100 matches. In 99% of the cases it's just harassment, insults and pure salt.
There should at least be an option to disable the chat altogether and.. yeah and anonymous mode for console players I guess.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2247847#Comment_2247847
maybe if you'd like to come up with some solid ideas other than "nerf SWF gen speeds" (because that's never going to happen) instead of complaining about being met with what is essentially narrative peddling, of which you yourself are guilty of, you'd actually get a proper back and forth conversation.
As soon as MMR drops one possible solution could be (and this solution is already implemented in other games like League of Legends) to match SWFs with higher rated Killers.
That's how other games handle "communication advantages" (even though there is an in game chat) - they simply try to counter communication (third party advantage) with higher skilled players (first party advantage).
That'd be an ok-ish solution for Ranked Play imo. For casual lobbies Killers just could get rewarded more BP for putting up with it. If there will ever be 2 kinds of lobbies ofc...
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249971#Comment_2249971
Actually, I like the idea behind the add-on system. For the sake of the argument, I am going to use Hag's add-ons as an example.
The brown to the green add-ons are just straight up enhancements to her base power, with each tier of rarity increasing the power of the effect. These add-ons include the teleport range and the set up speed time reduction. They are OP? Definitely not, but they can help you a lot throughout the match. However, the purple and the red add-ons instead of being a direct upgrade from the other add-ons are completely different in a way that they change Hag's playstyle. For example, there is the Mint Rag which puts a cool down on your teleport at the benefit of teleporting to any trap on the map. There is also the Scarred Hand, which makes the mud clones have collision at the cost of your teleport. These add-ons are not game breaking and for some, I would say that they are even crippling.
My point is, the ideal add-ons, at least on my perspective, should be either the ones that give you a nice upgrade, or change your playstyle. In either way, you can make use of some fun builds giving more variety to the game. Body blocker Hag is harmless as it is and her green add-ons don't make her an unstoppable beast anyway.
That's the one thing but looking at Wraith, for example, is the other way around. Most of his brown add-ons are pretty much useless/do very little, his yellows and greens are ok but his purple and red add-ons are insane. I've played Silent Bell + Wall Hack Wraith for a couple of games and it's absolutely nuts. Survivors basically can't mind game you at all on most tiles. Speedy Boy + Wall Hack is also really strong.
Another example would be Spirit with insane purple/red add-ons.
I don't mind the add-on system in a casual sense since they do bring a kinda fun mechanic into the game but in a competitive sense they're just god awful.
The sheer randomness and amount of add-ons can make it extremely frustrating to plain against them. Coming back to my example of Wraith - I don't want to imagine how painfully frustrating it was to "hide" from me, and then just to get hit out of nowhere because they didn't hear my bell and didn't know I can see them through walls. Many of them even said to me (in post game chat) that they thought I just saw them moving before uncloaking or it was just my lucky guess only to realize I run those add-ons after I got them the second time with it.
My whole point basically is that this randomness can be absolutely frustrating for people because they don't have any way to know which add-ons the killer/the survivors are running. There is no information about it before it already did its damage. Same argument could be used for Brand New Parts - Gen got roflstomped within a few seconds. If the Killer would've had the chance to know that this one guy has this add-on then the Killer could've played around that fact and potentially have stopped it but as it stands now - he can't.
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249985#Comment_2249985
Yes I actually saw that video few days ago and completely agree. Before we try to balance anything, first we need reliable matchmaking. Hopefully MMR will be better than this
Absolutely - proper balancing can't happen before good match making. You can't just let a gold 3 player compete with a challenger in LoL and then nerf the champion of the challenger because he dominated.. doesn't make sense.
I'm actually really astounded how a PvP game still doesn't have any MMR after 5 years of being released. That's something that should've been in the game from the very start or at least it should've been one of the first major patches.
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249858#Comment_2249858
Yea I was rank 1 survivor after 1 month of playing the game and I had no idea what I was doing lol
People want to buff solo and nerf swf but whats the point if you gonna get matched with red ranks noobs anyway
I have a similar experience. When I started playing I mained Killer (still kinda do, but I also play survivor regularly). Got to rank 2 within my first 40 hours of playing. Then I got either absolutely stomped by rank 1 survivors who looped the living sh out of me and I didn't kill anyone, or I got an easy 4k because survivors didn't know what to do. The match making in this game is honestly just non-existent.
I recently saw a video from OhTofu (Link with timestamp down below) He compared the ranking system of DbD to ladder systems like Overwatch or LoL, basically saying that anything from rank 20 to rank 2 is within Bronze to Silver compared to Overwatch and Rank 1 basically is this HUGE pool of players ranging from Gold over Platinum, Diamond and Master to even Grandmaster.
So in the end you have about 50% of the player base between rank 20 and rank 2 and 50% in rank 1.
And tbh, I agree with that. That's how the game feels playing in red ranks. I wish there was a proper matchmaking system in the game right now which catapults me back to rank 8 or something so I could enjoy balanced matches and gradually improve my own gameplay instead of being stuck in this weird pool of players I either absolutely demolish or get absolutely demolished. You know...just... FUN games.
https://youtu.be/5YJPOW7bwgs?t=275 -
@fogdonkey said:
Reducing the price of nodes is a terrible idea: People will have enough bloodpoints to always run the strongest add-ons, items and offerings. Everybody will just run purple/green stuff all the time. The game is not balanced around that IMO.
Ironically the fact this change would create a balancing issue is a balancing issue in itself already imo. If always running purple add-ons is a balancing issue why is it not a balancing issue if you're just running it a couple of times? In the grant scheme is balances out, sure. But it is an issue within the matches you're using them in and your opponents can't to anything about it since they can't even know what add-ons you're running.
Furthermore there are Killers that do have bad purple/red add-ons compared to their yollow/greens. How's that balanced then? Since you already can run yellow/greens every game if you want to without breaking a sweat.
I never really liked the add-on system. It feels really weird to have your full potential locked behind RNG and "consumables" you have to spend in-game currency for.
The game could potentially feel less frustrating for survivors if the Killers would have their best add-ons baseline but the game would be balanced around this fact and add-ons would just be some small QoL things like the add-on for nurse that lets you see your blink distance instead of having to memorize it.
This creates more consistency and survivors would know what they're up against instead of "guessing" which add-ons the Killer runs. More consistency = more predictability = less frustration.
But that's just my way of thinking.. Maybe I'm just an idiot and absolutely wrong.
On the other hand you'd have to compensate survivors in a similar way too, I suppose. Since their items, like flash lights and toolboxes and medkits and their add-ons also cost BP. Maybe items could stay as they are but they also have their strongest add-ons baseline? The QoL for flashlights could probably be a crosshair.. Idk... just some wild randoms ideas I'm throwing in here right now. There are probably way better things one could come up with when thinking about it properly.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2235422#Comment_2235422
My point was comms could be viewed as "cheating" kinda like the other methods I listed, depending on your pov.
I wasn't trying to justify using comms, but they are a thing and aren't going anywhere, and potentially alter the balance greatly depending on how well they are used.
Alright, I wasn't exactly sure how to interpret your comment.
So we more or less agree on comms then I guess.
I don't even want comms to go anywhere. I think SWF and comms is one of the main things that make this game grow because people love to play with their friends.
The best solution is what you've already suggested - give solos a way to coordinate on the same level as SWFs can and re-balance killers /maps around that.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2232513#Comment_2232513
The best we can do is get solos much more info and coordination capabilities to raise them toward SWF level then rebalance the killers around that, because I firmly believe SWF won't be touched.
This is the most sensible and probably best solution we could have, yes.