Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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Knowing people with epilepsy, the "they should have known better" arguments are kinda disgusting tbh. You'd be surprised the types of stimulus that don't cause seizures that your average person would assume do. Likewise, the ones that do that most people assume can't cause any issues. Its a very difficult hobby to navigate.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2836330#Comment_2836330
But then these perks lost their main purpose. They would be trash.
I think they are fair. You can tell someone probably has this perk when they start running early, etc. Then next time you can play around it.
Also you can scare them with this perk still lol. Even more accualy, because they will think they are 100% safe.
The point of spine chill isn't supposed to be "I can ignore stealth entirely," its supposed to be "The killer is within medium range, and its looking in my direction." The point of stealth isn't "I will stylishly moonwalk toward the survivor, because i can't be seen so i must be extra," its "I need to get as close to the survivor as I can before being detected."
Stealth killers already have multiple tells, their audio is far more reliable than survivor pain sounds or even footsteps sometimes. If you can't listen for a wraith's loud snarl, myers asthmatic breathing, or other audio tells than you are legit using spine chill as a crutch vs stealth killers. I'll admit that when I run it, I put a lot less attention into looking for stealth killers, since I know the one perk is basically hard countering them for free. Best part is that stealth killers are pretty much all weak right now, especially because of CoH, so its just more fuel for the "only blight and
nurse" fire. -
Both sides require skill, but at higher skill level the dynamic shifts heavily in survivor's favor. People on both sides make plenty of excuses, but in terms of real issues there are more for killer side at any given time, especially with how each killer is different from one another rather than just reskins like survivors (therefore having more factors in play to cause issues, see the nurse "fix" and subsequent "disabled while we figure out ######### went wrong"
Basically as survivor the higher your (and the people you match with) skill gets, the more survivor sided the game becomes. Therefore, gitting gud is unironically the answer to the vast majority of survivor complaints (certainly not all though, but almost always the ones people get really vocal about.) On the inverse, the higher your (and the people you match with) skill gets, the more things stop being excuses and start becoming valid concerns. Unfortunately all people can do is try to play around them, but in the end they're often just at the mercy of either the dev's balancing decisions, or their bugfixing ability.
Or they just camp, tunnel, and take their 1-2k because of how hard they're disincentivized from playing any other way.
Also worth noting, scrubs on both sides will parrot concerns they hear from better players as excuses even when they don't apply to themselves. That type of using people to validate their excuses doesn't even apply to their situation most of the time.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I don't even think overheat is a problem tbh.
What I'd do is slightly reduce his stun/cooldown upon a bump or a missed hit, remove his roar, and give him another addon pass.
The biggest issues with cooldown aren't even about its leniency, but more its deign and behavior affected: It punishes newer players more, making the player skill curve considerably worse. It takes longer to get better with him, in a game where the only way to practice is in live matches. Completely unappealing to newer players, while just adding more things to manage for ones who know the killer already.
Then you run into the things it punishes, namely using the chainsaw to travel, or going for very difficult uses of the power. Two things that should be the goal of getting better with the killer, being as efficient as possible and engaging in high risk/high reward gameplay in chases. Removing mobility is pretty much a guaranteed way to promote camping, and hurting his ability to use the chainsaw in skillfull ways encourages people to go for boring backrevs since the risk isn't worth it.
The other things you mentioned are also problems, as well as the stuff like his camera and animations, but the biggest thing about the overheat is that its entirely counterintuitive to the killer themselves, and promotes more boring gameplay.
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@CrashMADDS13 said:
Not to burst the narrative here, but it's easy to tell you've reached high MMR.
When youved 4 KD enough times in a row and start seeing stacked survivors that are all aggressively efficient on gens, master loopers, and bringing only the strongest perks, while making the most out of those perks, you're in high mmr.
It's even more apparent because when you start getting destroyed by those teams you get easier survivors.
I know it's so cool to discredit someone's opinion but, maybe reliase that if you personally don't understand what high MMR is, that doesn't mean nobody understands it either.
That's the most narcissistic ######### I've seen on this website.
To be fair, the game can/has/will put low MMR players with high MMR ones, especially with its time-over-quality setup. With survivors it doesn't feel AS noticeable as long as 1-2 people can carry the weight, but as killer you really have to know to look for that one person who is a lot stronger than the others. Or just be playing off hours and get nothing but swf's streaming since they're the only ones really playing at the time.
BHVR are afraid to let us know our own MMR because it could create the same elitism that ranks used to carry in conversation. Likewise, they don't want to let us see each other's MMR for similar elitism but also because it would let people dodge when the matchmaking screws them out of a balanced game. The situation wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if they had more factors go into MMR, let killers have individual MMR like they planned, or most importantly not called it "skill based".
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As others have mentioned, mathematically its actually pretty easy to end up in a higher MMR than you might expect, the softcap combined with the bad win conditions make it just as easy to fail upwards as ranks were. If players had access to their own MMR in some capacity (even just milestones or something of the like) it would at least be easier to gauge approximately where you're at.
All that said, when people say "in high mmr," it would probably be more accurate to say "playing with high mmr players." While there isn't a direct way of knowing another players MMR, you can often deduce how good or bad a player's general efficiency is on either side. From small stuff like to preserving loops and leaving bad pallets to mindgame, to things like purposely leading the killer away from their map pressure or using perks like pop or DMS in a way that avoids timer overlap. Players who are regularly in high mmr tend to play in a way more refined for their goal, there's a lot more precision and thought put into each action.
Of course without numbers for any of this, people's perception is all down to being able to recognize other people's strategies, but also being honest with themselves about their own.
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Yeah pretty sure your anger should be directed at
Cheryl and Meg decided not to open the door and ran away, not the 99'd door. if it was the game and either pallet near the door was still up, pretty much anyone can get enough time to tap it and escape. Its actually one of the best maps for it because of that, you're practically guaranteed a pallet (albeit one side isn't a terribly strong one) in close proximity to the door, and one that usually wouldn't get used in normal chase routing to boot. That said, there are extremely few cases where 99ing the door is a bad move, as long as the survivors have any sense on how to play around it after 99ing it. It sounds like yours did not. -
@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2830605#Comment_2830605
As someone that suffers from very bad motion sickness with a lot of first person games, Billy/Oni/Blight all make me feel very nauseous because of their animations. So when sawing I spend a lot of the time just looking at the character not the entire area and it's very hard to not notice the jank like that.
Highspeed motion + low FoV is a bad mix for motion sickness. Shame an accessibility feature thats been around for over 20 years is locked behind a perk slot, maybe in a few years someone will slip up and disparage people for getting motion sick and we'll finally get an FoV option.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
The two biggest issues imho are wacky hitboxes of things preventing you from chainsawing effectively and terrible animations. Fix them both, remove the roar for good measure, and he'll already be a lot better.
I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention his animations. Using his saw just feels absolutely awful, especially with how deceptively (yet apparently purposely) bad the camera is. It's been awful since they messed it up before even adding overheat and just never recovered.
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Just make it so boon totems can be destroyed. indirectly nerfs noed and buffs pentimento to boot, feels like a win/win to me.
Actually, you know what? Since the other boons require the killer being nearby to benefit, make it so you have to be in the TR to get any benefit from CoH. Keeps it in line with the others, makes it more risky, and improves value from nurses substantially.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2813792#Comment_2813792
MMR is trash but I don’t think the devs are survivor sided. They just don’t know how to balance the game because their inaccurate stats show the game is balanced
Many buy chapters the instant they come out anyway and sadko’s perks are good so I doubt she will sell poorly
A lot of the reason people tend to think the devs are survivor sided is because of how long fixes usually take. Killers can have sound/animation/camera bugs that completely gimp them and the bugs will stay for years while one of their most common reasons for buffing something on survivor side is due to the alternative being "unfun."
The way they word a lot of their priorities sounds hilariously loaded. I don't think they're as bad as it sounds with that stuff, but its impossible to deny their priorities on the killer side are considerably lower when you look at stuff like how long the silent slug bug has lasted, or stuff like billy feeling absolutely awful since they messed with his chainsaw animations.
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@Phasmamain said:
Because she has a power that isn’t antiloop killer number 762. It’s a breath of fresh air to air to a lot of people
We should probably make it so that antiloop isn't necessary at higher level pf play then.
That said, she technically does have a very weak antiloop, basically similar to the pig's. No dash, but you can phase out and back in and use the temporary passive phasing to make people second guess themselves at loops, but it of course has the same counter as pigs by just abandoning the loop while the killer mindgames themselves.
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too many survivors refusing to improve and just crying for nerfs instead. It might sound harsh, but in a side balanced around 4 people it only takes one person throwing a tantrum to ruin the game for everyone.
Suiciding on 1st hook, dcing the moment they go down, quitting because they "don't like the killer," failing a save and quitting out of sheer embarrassment, leading the killer back to the hook in chase, wasting a ton of time, trying so hard to bully the killer they never touch gens, etc. They all have a cascading effect that makes things worse for the other 3 survivors (and the killer as well half the time.)
I know its going to sound like an us vs them post (killers do all kinds of bm and dcs as well) but when one survivor does it, the other 4 players are stuck in that match so they have to suffer through it. And I feel thats a big part of why soloQ feels so bad, alternating between 1+ selfish teammate willing to ruin the game and killers who facecamp/tunnel/etc preventing you from playing games as well.
Lemme get 1 gen, 1 unhook, and run some good chases and I consider it a good game regardless of the outcome. The above scenarios prevent pretty much any of that which makes the games feel awful.
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@dugman said:
To be fair the "grind" is kind of in your head, there's no particular reason you need level 3 on every perk for instance let alone need every perk unlocked on a given killer, let alone trying to unlock every perk on every killer. If you're more content to play with the perks the web gives you then you're not spending millions on bloodpoints chasing that "catch em all" dream.
Not that I'm against them making it easier for people to get specific perks or add-ons they want. I'm just saying you'll only see it as a grind if you see your main objective as unlocking literally everything when you don't actually need to do that.
Yeah thats all well and good until it takes you 50+ bloodwebs per killer to even see perks you want. Some killers vary from good to absolute garbage without certain perks/addons as a minimum. If everyone's basekit was better and there was more viable variety to killer builds, it wouldn't be as bad as it is.
Its still bad for survivor as well, but getting characters with perks you want to 30-40 and then dogpiling everything onto a single survivor is absurdly easier. Especially if you're skipping unlocking bad perks along the way.
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@BoriskyTheFox said:
The answer is DS and BT
I think they should make DS, BT and Unreakable base kit for survivors. Survivors shouldnt be forced to waste perk slots just because they might play against tryhard tunneler & camper killers.
Interesting, since I use none of those 3 and still get to iri 1 regularly.
They're strong perks, but not even remotely necessary. Maybe I'm just good at ruining killers' pressure when they camp and tunnel unless they hard commit to it, which neither of those perks would beat (only delay a little) anyway.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803614#Comment_2803614
Must be a hard adjustment not to see 3 auras rubbing each other on the other side of the map, lol
My favorite thing about kindred is being on hook and seeing people still being oblivious to everything going on.
Like half the reason I took the perk was so that you could get free information, use it plz.
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@BoriskyTheFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/309931/so-why-was-eerie-of-crows-buffed
Huh? Eyrie of crows isnt a survivor sided map. I think devs made the right decision by buffing it. As you said, those rock pallets were way too unsafe. Survs need stronger maps especially nowadays when anti loop killers are so popular.
That map is insanely survivor sided. Its massive, has a 2 floor structure with god pallets and multiple very strong loops in it, most of the loops can be seen through, large amount of obstructions in general to hurt ranged killers, very few loops can be mindgamed, gen distribution takes advantage of the map size so its rare to see a 3 gen (and even then, they tend to be fairly spread out,) and like Ormond its fairly likely to get multiple strong loops link into one another (esp near killer shack.)
I feel like it was made that way somewhat on purpose due to not being a dark lighting map (so tracking is somewhat easier than somewhere like yamaoka) but survivors who can loop well do a LOT of damage there. A killer pretty much needs 115%, good antiloop, AND good mobility to not be hurt by its design.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803567#Comment_2803567
I can see Kindred for sure but Windows isnt a good solo que perk imo at all its good for knowing where the good loops are but thats a personal thing and does very little to nothing to raise your survival % or rate.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803572#Comment_2803572
Neither? lol Those are my personal perks for solo que so obviously your gonna have a different answer.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803574#Comment_2803574
Yeah Kindred is definetly a big deal and game changer (most of the time). Self Care takes to long to heal but BT is definelty a go to as well.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803575#Comment_2803575
Ok so Kindred and DS or Kindred and Borrowed Time. Yeah this is definetley a thing and seemingly a must have for solo que.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803577#Comment_2803577
Good point! Its gotten to a point where i was so demoralized and desperate that i started running Open Handed/Bond and Kindred together. When i got disappointed at the results with those perks i've tried Left Behind with a key. Yeah so my survivor experience most of time has caused me to just concentarte on myself and endgame bc im expecting to have atrocious teammates, you know the teammates that make ALL the wrong descisions lol I'll try out Clarivoyance later, thanks!
ps: As you can tell i have 0 faith in people lol
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803585#Comment_2803585
Solo que in a nutshell! )
Windows tells you what resources have/havent been used ahead of time, which prevents you from running into loops with no pallets/opened doors. Thats on top of allowing you to route chases in advance and chain loops together easily, which can be extremely strong time wasters to ruin killer pressure and give allies time to figure things out without coordination.
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Kindred and Windows. I honestly put both of them over BT/UB/SC/DS/even CoH.
They're pretty much designed specifically for solo queue and it shows.
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@exf310n said:
I'm going to need some reasons for it being hot garbage.
Are you referring to playing killer on this map, playing survivor, being console player? What exactly are you complaining about here?
gen distribution is bad, hallways are narrow as hell making most killer powers either op or pointless, its heug, the infamous library, pretty much every loop is either terrible or god tier, extremely poor detection (scratch marks feel more like a hindrance at a lot of intersections,) too much of the map is fixed, bad stairway areas for both sides, very poor hook placements, the list goes on really.
It looks amazing in comparison to how it looked in RE2make but its absolutely miserable for both sides to play on.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
Yeah its funny how I never realized how popular Windows was until tracking this.
To me it always sounded kinda pointless but apparently not.
It allows you to route in advance very easily, so you never get caught off guard by tile rng. Also lets you know when pallets have/havent been used, as well as what doors have/havent been kicked down. A lot of people look down on it as a beginner oriented perk, but if you know how to loop tiles you can greed them considerably easier.
Literally only negative to it imo is that the aura kinda blocks other auras it lines up with, so it can be hard to see a survivor being hooked or a slug if they're in a straight line from you lining up with it.
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Glad to see windows and kindred so high. can't promote those two for solo q hard enough.
Disappointed in circle of healing tho. I use it occasionally, but i mostly avoid it knowing how much of a problem it is right now.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801972#Comment_2801972
Loads of survivor things have had the same treatment. See: OoO, MoM, DS, Boil Over, etc lol both sides have badly designed things touched.
Not exactly the same, especially since the devs defended OoO before nerfing it. The reason I bring up Legion specifically is because he's been in the graveyard (an entire character) since getting nerfed, and he's still badly designed. just in a way that doesn't upset survivors as much as moonwalking and following blood trails did.
A perk is one thing, but we're talking an entire character. Its taken them forever to even address how badly they got butchered, and we don't even know if reworking them is going to make a difference.
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there are entire topics about this regularly, there's even one on the front page right now lmao
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2802001#Comment_2802001
True but I'm pointing out that people are putting their personal beliefs onto NoED, and then claiming it's flawed for not following their own, personal, subjective rules.
I don't care if someone thinks 'The game is lost when 5 gens pop'; them thinking that does NOT mean NoED is flawed or 'rewards losing'.
But instead, people believe this, then scream it on the forums so loudly that OTHERS believe it, and then I get treated like ######### in-game if I use NoED, even if it never pops. And when people's subjective, personal views of the game are used as an excuse to treat other people like #########; it's a problem. THAT is why I always smack down the 'basically lost' fallacy; it's not true. People can think it all they damn day, but when they start to demand the game be balanced around a PERSONAL viewpoint, and treat others like garbage for not following their PERSONAL rules; they need to be metaphorically slapped down.
One of the biggest reason for them to think that way is because the bulk of the survivor's objective is to repair 5 gens. The exit gates take less time than a single gen by themselves, and the only pressure the killer can really apply is in regards to hook saves. They CAN pressure doors to prevent them from being opened, but one survivor running from the door to a loop is simply opening the door to be worked on by someone else during said chase. The Pressure dynamic is mostly gone in the match, with the exception of lategame perks designed specifically for it (like the aforementioned noed, no way out, and blood warden,) and hook saves.
Part of why a lot of survivors get especially upset about that is because of last second denials. They might have done great the whole game, looped very well and even sacrificed a hook or two to ruin the killer's map pressure and give the other survivors the time and space to do the gens. Then they get tagged by noed and nobody is willing to hunt for the totem/go for the save/etc and they die. The frustration is what makes them so emotional in that situation, and is a big part of why so many people hate the perk's design. Like with most perks in the game, it can turn a losing situation into an advantageous one, with the end result being pretty extreme.
Some people just straight up hate it, some don't see a problem with it at all, other think the problem is deeper than just noed, and has more to do with how quickly the game can snowball in either direction with minimal reasonable counterplays on an individual player level. The nature of the game inherently brings out the beast in a lot of people, so to speak.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801992#Comment_2801992
I really wouldn't call last midchapter minor to medium tweaks, and the point still stands that the community reaction to actually getting a patch that primarily focused on game health was to ######### and whine about how it "didn't have anything in it".
Its minor to medium when we need an entire chapter worth of fixes, and some of the fixes actually made things worse and required more fixes after. If there's anything I know about codebases, its that the longer problems sit unattended, the more they cascade into other problems and become harder to fix. Some problems that were minor fixes years ago have created so many dependencies that they are now major fixes, even if their impact hasn't changed much in either direction. Its a very common issue with expanding over time, the code figuratively gets tangled.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801963#Comment_2801963
It's not over until it's over. I mean, imagine if sports teams played like people here demand the 'other side' play; The Falcon's 'basically won' in Super Bowl 51 with a 28-3 lead in the 4th quarter. Instead, the Pats turned it into a 34-28 win.
This is why the 'basically already lost' argument is bullshit; No one has lost until the match is over, or they give up. Survivors are demanding Killers GIVE UP when 5 gens pop, and then saying this is a valid rule that NoED breaks. It's stupid and entitled.
While I tend to be more on the side of sticking with a match until the very end, you're being pretty unrealistic with expectations (especially with your expectation of other people's expectations, ironically.)
Again, most people don't think a situation like 8 hooks 0 kills all gens done is a done game. Same do, some don't. Likewise, some people think 5 gens done in a 1v3 is winnable. Either match could have either side win, but the expectation of victory is going to differ from person to person.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801957#Comment_2801957
While I think there should be more focus on game health, it’s really not true that they are not doing any game health updates. Last mid chapter had plenty of game health updates, but you know what happened? Community got upset because there was not much content.
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801957#Comment_2801957
Considering how the community reacted to the actual game health midchapter recently, I doubt that would actually change the community's mind on things at all.
The game needs more than just minor to medium tweaks though. even the last two patches have introduced more performance issues for a significant part of the userbase, and some stuff has been going on for years without being touched. There are many people (myself included) who DO appreciate the under the hood work that gets done over time, but the problems add up faster than the fixes, and its been like that for a long time.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801713#Comment_2801713
someone doesn't know the difference between strong and badly designed.
badly designed only gets complained about (and taken seriously) when its something survivors don't like though. see: the entirety of Legion's history.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801758#Comment_2801758
By that logic; Survivors are 'pretty much losing' when I hook someone for the first time, because it's one step closer to being Killed.
And Killers are 'pretty much losing' if 1 generator pops, because Survivors are 1 step closer to escaping.
Yet we don't balance around this idiocy, do we? So why do people think '5 gens popped! 🤪' is a valid argument while knowing 'One gen popped!' is not?
8 hooks with 0 gens done and 5 gens done with 0 hooks are equally bad extremes of "its not over yet, but it might as well be." People's threshold for hope in the remainder of the game pretty much always falls somewhere in the middle, but usually not at either extreme.
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@Mooks said:
So you really think those two topics are in any way related?
@ThanksForDaily said:
Two completely different departments.
These are both true, but they have been very adamant about not doing any game health updates when they are sorely needed. It would be more appropriate to ask them to delay a chapter's killer/survivor release to do a game health chapter, but that is something they have stated they are unwilling to do.
So we just end up with arguibly the most important priority remaining on the backburner for literal years and people are getting more frustrated the longer it festers.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801853#Comment_2801853
I already have a BHVR quote saying I'm right, so it doesn't matter how many people say otherwise. :P Peanits specifically mentioned that it's holding hostage even if the Doctor downs them for standing still.
You've already had multiple people tell you how you're taking that post about a specific situation out of context entirely.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801694#Comment_2801694
Nobody cares about the dead harders into walls and those in dead zones.
Give a 5 year old a two handed sword and they won't be able to lift it. Doesn't change the fact that a two handed sword is still a deadly weapon in the right hands.
You look at the highest levels of play to balance a asset in a game not at the lowest
this video explains that concept pretty well
nothing in this game is balanced for high level play, short of maybe nurse and blight. Spirit used to be, but we saw how that went. I understand (and am a supporter of) people getting better vs balancing for lower level play, and my first post in this topic was outright talking about how the "rewards bad play" argument is asinine. I don't really understand what you're replying to.
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@C3Tooth said:
To think about it, Pig & Pinhead are the best design with their build-in slowdown that split their power into 2 parts. Buffing 1 part too far doesnt hurt the other side because that would buff them only 50% of their powers.
Slinger is just a really bad killer design. His power was un-counterable for survivor who's in chase, but nerf his power result in destroying him because he has nothing else to back up for the nerf.
The counter to slinger's power was always about making yourself hard to hit, and reads (not reactions) for when he was going to go for shots. Just like huntress, but his misses were (longer cooldown and shorter range, no resource management) vs the opposite on huntress. TBH the majority of complaints about it were people with extremely predictable movement who refused to bait shots, and the hammer fell so hard on him that they even upped his TR to make his limited range hurt that much more.
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@TMCalypso said:
Lately, I too have noticed a lot of Leatherface players when I play as survivor. Although I have also noticed an equal number of Huntress players as well. Strangely....the Leatherface players I ran into NEVER camped or tunneled....but EVERY Huntress player did.
Huntress can proxy camp a lot easier on most outdoor maps, where she doesn't need to be as close to the hook but can still react and down people quickly if she sees/hears them near it. Bubbas usually stay so close to the hook when they do it so they can get hits on both/possible doublehit to nullify BT. A lot of bubbas don't like that playstyle though and are simply playing the killer like normal... the ones that do camp just strike such fear in survivors they assume all of em do :D
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801735#Comment_2801735
Then you're wrong. Congrats. You're personal view on winning and losing does not change how the game works.
I think the reason people feel that way is because of how abysmally short that part of the game is compared to the rest. Exit gates don't take terribly long (unless you have perks designed to slow or prevent them for a time) and can be 99'd to prevent blood warden/EGC, and EGC itself puts a relatively short (compared to the gen phase) timer on the rest of the match. Combine that with fast gen speeds and, well.
Not saying that the match IS over at that point, just that its not exactly halftime in most cases.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801510#Comment_2801510
The problem is that dead hard turned that bad play in a good play with little to no requirement and with little to no way for the opposition to change it.
That argument that dead hard used that way is good play doesn't mean much.
If they made a perk that allowed you to open the exit gates at any time without the gens being done and you opened it as soon as you spawn without doing gens then that's technically also a good play. You didn't bother with gens cause you know you had a perk to circumvent it.
I don't think i need to point out that that wouldn't mean that perk would be okay.
People use dead hard to dodge right into walls or away from loops constantly. It most certainly has bad uses that would have been good ones if they were used differently. Dead hard also does have counterplay (MOST times) by baiting it out, attacking with a short m1 instead of a lunge so they have no time to react, even some killers like wraith can tap their power to change their animation enough to scare survivors into using it early. Of course there are times where it can't be countered, but using it in those situations specifically is, in itself, a good play.
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@not_Queef said:
Any time they give details like this, the community assumes that it is completely set in stone and then gets all outraged when things are delayed or abandoned down the line.
So now they don't tell us anything until they are ready and I don't blame them.
The community is full of babies who don't have the slightest clue how game development works.
To be fair, there have been very strong counterarguments from people who do know game development, some of them even developers themselves. They get washed aside with NERF X PLZ topics all over the place, but they also don't get any actual feedback to either acknowledge or discuss their points. This topic is also in the feedback section now, even though it could have actually been a discussion about the difficulties of curating discussion on the forums/Q&A's, and been a good opportunity to let people know they aren't always being ignored. Meta topics like that should always have a place at the table, especially to prevent them from constantly popping up repeatedly as time goes on.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801627#Comment_2801627
That's...not true? Not unless the gen explodes or you have a way to detect that it's being worked on.
Lemme make it simple: If you are going back once or twice because you are worried it's being worked on, that's fine. If the game is going on forever because ALL YOU'RE DOING is hitting, letting them go, and running back to stand guard, you are holding the game hostage.
If you scare survivors off a gen, but don't score a hit and they hover in the area, where exactly do you think they're going to go the moment you leave? Do you really need a gen notification to figure that out?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801637#Comment_2801637
Then I misunderstood you. My goal is not to put this problem at the top, just to point out a problem.
Considering how slow the BHVR is at solving problems, I find it logical to play around of this problem. At least until the problem is fixed. I agree with your opinion on this matter. I was arguing because I thought you were defending the problem. Like "There is counterplay, no need to fix."
yeah nah RPD is a pretty bad map in general (gameplay wise) and the way they've been handling the library is just a reoccurring mess in dbd's history with map design. All we can do is make them aware, then wait (???) months/years until it gets addressed. I was the same way with the boil over situation, it was awful and needed to be fixed, but ironically the cure was worse than the disease in this case.
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pretty much all exhaustion perks and killer endgame perks reward bad play. SB rewards bad positioning, Balanced rewards going to a height that would otherwise slow you down enough on landing to confirm a hit, Head on rewards hiding in a locker instead of using time efficiently, Fire up literally rewards gens being done, no way out and noed reward ALL the gens being done, etc. Hell, even Blood Warden rewards the exit gates being opened.
The biggest outliers for dead hard are that the survivor has to make themselves vulnerable (injured,) but can use it on command (for the most part,) that it can be baited/countered with proper timing and paitience, but also that it can be used at times where it can't be countered if used for distance. It has too many variables to its uses (both good and bad( to boil down as much as the others.
The reason its so strong is, as others have said, because it can have a much higher effect when used properly. Likewise, it doesn't make a player good because it is extremely fallible when used incorrectly.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801624#Comment_2801624
I just opened this discuss for show this: They fixed one exploit and created another one. So maybe BHVR can see what are they doing with their game.
I am not going discuss with you about this anymore, no point here. Because i know if you stay away from Library, probably this will not effect you but this does not mean Library is not problematic. I am not saying "HEY BHVR, FIX THIS NOW! GAME IS UNPLAYABLE!". This topic is here for shows one exploit. That's all. Thank you for your helping, have a good day.
You keep implying that I don't agree with you, which I do. Someone just offered constructive feedback that you, as a player, can do to avoid the situation while waiting for the fix. I wasn't even that person. Nobody has said it shouldn't be fixed, just how you can become a better player in the meantime. If constructive feedback is unwelcome, then the topic serves no point to anyone but the devs themselves.
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alright, they went back to the doctor shock example as their baseline. I'm done with this topic.
Anyone who wants to actually consider the arguments has more than enough info to make their decision.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801616#Comment_2801616
Those two are definitely not equivalents unless the Killer is going back because they see someone else approaching gens.
You don't need to physically see the other person on the other gen to know when its being worked on, and sometimes you don't even have line of sight between multiple gens. I honestly can't tell if you're using every logical fallacy you can think of, or you've just never actually been in this situation successfully.
But to play along, thats like saying the survivors using spine chill to run away before the killer can reach them are the same as the ones tapping and hiding in lockers.
Again, please, for the love of all things sacred, try to consider anything short of extreme examples.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801613#Comment_2801613
Here we go guys, whataboutism is here. And when i said ignore other issues, why you broung them on table? Can we stop defend exploits please?
How is that whataboutism when my argument is literally to actually try to work around the issue? I'm not even saying its not an issue, just to change your mindset about it?
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801606#Comment_2801606
I'm really not. "Tap and hide indefinitely" is the Survivor equivalent of "injure Survivor and go back to gen indefinitely."
no, its the equivalent of "shock indefinitely so that survivors can't touch gens."
(Survivors tapping and slowly progressing gens, running away and healing if hit) is the equivalent of (injuring survivors and going back to gens immediately.)
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801604#Comment_2801604
So you are saying don't loop this area. This is not fix, this is band-ait. But problem need to be adressed and fix as soon as possible.
Tell that to people who had to deal with the silent slug sound glitch, billy and blight's awful camera issues, nurse dead zones, the million shades of hit detection issues on either side, and every other issue this game has ever had. Most issues in the game take too long to fix, constantly complaining about them solves nothing. Adapt as best you can while waiting for a proper fix, especially in cases where adapting is actually possible.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801599#Comment_2801599
I didn't say "tap and work on them until the Killer finds them." I said "tap and go back into hiding."
You're ignoring nuanced arguments in favor of hyperbolic assumptions, just like that doctor shock post.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801580#Comment_2801580
Not really. There is some perks to affect wiggle. So there is chance killer can abuse it.
Why does any of that matter when you can just not route to that area of the map? there are only like 2 possible gen spawn locations anywhere near it to begin with.
Again, I think the map is awful (and have spoken out about it even in this very topic) but adapting and overcoming is an important part of dealing with how slowly fixes get made in this game. If there's anything you can do as a player to circumvent a problem, ya gotta take it.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801578#Comment_2801578
Yes, that actually is true. If they just tap and go back to hiding (especially to avoid AFK crows), that is hostage holding.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801579#Comment_2801579
I mean, the BHVR quote I posted said that Killer is fault if they are only bothering to down Survivor if they stand still, so...
You do realize that what you said is actually true is exactly how survivors are supposed to (and do) counterplay 3 gen scenarios, right? they tap the gens and work on them only until the killer starts going their way, then run away before the killer can get a hit (therefore forcing them to either commit and give up the other gens, or deny the chase and go back to kicking/patroling.) Gen kicks take much longer than gen taps, regression is slower than base progress, and the 1 is trying to match distance with the up-to-4 who are only marginally slower movement speed wise. Gen tapping and getting small increments done continuously is how survivors win 3 gen setups, even with as little as just 2 survivors.
Of course you went to the extreme with your "example," but the strategy is still the same.