Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992235#Comment_3992235
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G8B8714VNS73/68-inflated.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GCA83MVFD6Z9/51-actual.png
My official stats have a 68% escape rate, but the official stats are still inflated because BHVR never fixed all the bugs.
My actual stats have a 51% escape rate (34 escapes with 66 games = 51%). This is all solo q too.
If you want to tell me this isn't good enough for high MMR, then I would really be interested in what escape rates you think I would need for the minimum cutoff.
well now we got a new question of why your posting escape rate when we're talking about what would be efficient for the killer.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991712#Comment_3991712
The code wouldn't need to be 100% perfect.
Just look at all the changes in this upcoming patch. BHVR obviously didn't care about making sure the killer never got unfairly punished.
It's absolutely ridiculous that the AFK crows were nerfed so badly that I've literally never seen a survivor with 3 crows since the nerfs…… but people are expecting these upcoming changes to be powerful and impactful. Why the double standard?
Probably at 99% then. As survivor we've been hit with other injured nearby because they ran with us and neither of us could split.
There are flaws in some of the updates yes but that's what testing is for. Also granted the devs don't have a good track record with it but we'll see what happens. Besides it's better to not have any of that as a whole than throwing it in and leaving it.
........ maybe because people aren't doing the usual but to GET the crows now? As far as we can tell it's only mildly more picky than before that update. We haven't seen any during the update except in a kuf...whom said survivor WAS actually trying to just hide. You not seeing crowsis not indictive of much...especially if your claiming "high MMR" and wouldn't have ppl that would be AFK or doing things that trigger it. If you really wanna try for double standards you need a better target.….
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991525#Comment_3991525
It's almost always beneficial to pick up the survivor and risk the DS, considering the pick rate of DS isn't high enough to respect it. And currently, it's much better to eat a DS and continue chasing someone, than it is to waste time trying to find a new target.
And if you don't actually think anti-tunneling perks can we weaponized, then it should be completely fine if BHVR deactivated them if the survivor purposely bodyblocked the killer.
And currently, it's much better to eat a DS and continue chasing someone, than it is to waste time trying to find a new target
But in that scenario the killer has a targets location…like "in their vision" location with the unhooker. The killer is not hunting down a new target, their just continuing to chase that one.
Personally we'd be ok with that if there was a guaranteed way for the code to tell intention. Ain't no code we know of that can differentiate between malicious and just plain dumb.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991415#Comment_3991415
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991446#Comment_3991446
The killer is usually at a net loss, if they hit a survivor multiple times, then leave them slugged on the ground. It also ignores the fact that it's still an overall better action to pick up the survivor and risk the DS.
At least it is at my skill level, and considering my escape rate, I'm figuring I have to be at high MMR.
If you could humor us with a common scenario: The unhook happens nearby and the killer sees two survivors healing under hook. Killer goes for the unhooker to be "nice" and the injured tries blocking. Killer hits injured and continues to chase the unhooker, but the dummy keeps trying to get in their way. Hit two, their down.
First what is stopping the killer from continuing to chase the unhooker? The killer had effectively kept two (2, dos, duo) of 4 off of gens and now has one effectively off gens again until they get up which requires another survivor, perks for usually 1 time use, or to be effectively neutralized for 90 cumulative seconds if the changes go through. How is the killer losing out here?
Second what is forcing the killer to pick up the slug? As killer they chose what they do. DS can't force them to get picked up. A supposed high MMR killer would know when the survivor wants to use DS and chooses when it's more beneficial to eat it or not. It's a choice, not a force.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990642#Comment_3990642
no, they do. "killers play dirty?" oh you mean playing smart, you know since its 4 players (the survivors) vs 1 player (the killer). so lets make the 80% happy and heck with the 20% (the KM's).
these tactics were rare until survivors kept whining about getting gen regression perks gutted (Pop, pain res). survivors had the means to combat camp/tunnel/slug but felt entitled to not use perks and say that KM's should "just not do it". if you really think these changes are buffs and harmless, thats some next level delusion or you're a wolf in sheepskin (survivor main in KM skin)
so remind us again what killers did when regression was at its strongest?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989244#Comment_3989244
That's just the 3 of you then. When people say 40min queue, I think they aren't lying. I also don't think that you are lying either.
Therefore, I assume, that queues are from 20min-40min.
Even the possibility of a 40min queue time is insane to me. Nobody ever said that about the other iterations of 2v8.
After a annoying time of digging through the forums, what we found was people complaining about wait times, but not one gives any sort of guestimate…so don't know where that leaves us.
On a more funny note, saw a past post from you talking about how variety in killers could make a difference in wait times via more combinations and more interesting matches for survivors.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989227#Comment_3989227
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1PGFJIKN58NO/screenshot-2025-08-28-145527.png
why he look like a goofy ah Pinocchio
Mostly that's the kinda masks in Thailand
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989193#Comment_3989193
Who is "we". There seem to be a big amount of people here stating the opposite. Maybe you, and the others you are describing, just lucky with their queue?
Rulebreaker is shared between the 3 of us. Maybe we're lucky, maybe unlucky. But if so then it stands to reason that others are as (un)lucky and gotten similar ques right?
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989128#Comment_3989128
Sadly, the sentiment these days seems to be that as soon as you queue up for a trial, you're married to it. But fun should be taken into account or else we end up in this situation.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989193#Comment_3989193
The Resident Evil crossover the iteration before the last. They were added because of the HUNK Legendary.
Gracias
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While we don't think this will help the extreme cases where the killer just wants someone dead, having more dynamic scoring events would help those who want points.
For example, you get an amount of bp for first hook. You hook someone new you get a larger bonus. Hook all 4 like a carousel and you get those bonuses plus an extra. Ping pong between 2 survivors will still get you a bonus, just not as large. Conversely you'd lose out on bonus points for repeat hooks. Something like DMC style points. This would work better than old bbq because you can still tunnel with bbq and get the full bonus.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989118#Comment_3989118
It's not as simple as that. @Foggyguy does have a good point here.
Queue times have, as far as I know, never been this horrible in 2v8. According to your statement, you would think that those would be worst when the game mode released, as it was when the option was the freshest for every player.
It's not fresh anymore. It's blatantly obvious that survivors don't want to play 2v8. Now this has multiple reasons obviously with no new classes being one of them.
It is undeniably though, that a killer combo that feels incredibly out of place and has proven to be a bad idea is one reason as well.
It's a game. If people don't want to play because it isn't fun for them, a sentiment I can wholeheartedly understand in regard to facing Legion + oni (or legion + a variety of killers), they will simply not engage in that game mode. They will either not play the game mode or not play the game at all, looking for something else that pays more respect to their time.
Adding Legion this early into the game mode was simply put a mistake.
But as you say there's multiple reasons. And there's been no major increase for us since legions introduction. We can't remember (or seem to find apparently) which iteration they were added but as the wait time stays the same, it seems to us it's legion themselves isn't doing a major job scaring survivors away.
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@catawumpus said:
I was originally going to tack this onto my "Identity Crisis" post, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized this is such a fundamental flaw in DbD that it deserves its own discussion.
The biggest reason DbD feels unfair, inconsistent, and thematically messy is this: the killer is always random.
Think about it:
- One match you load in against Pig and it’s a tense, cinematic horror vibe.
- The next, it’s Legion frenzying every 12 seconds.
- Or you get a P100 Nurse, and suddenly it’s not a horror game, it’s a competitive esport sweat-fest.
- Meanwhile, new survivors get clunky Deathslinger matches and think “wow this killer is garbage,” when really it’s just a mismatch.
This randomness fuels so many downstream problems:
- Survivors complain endlessly about facing the same killers (Legion, Huntress, Blight, Nurse) while underplayed killers barely exist in matchmaking.
- Matches feel like coin flips. Sometimes you get an iconic horror vibe, sometimes you get “Larry the Halo robot” or “idol cosplay with knives.”
- Balance feels impossible because BHVR is trying to make one-size-fits-all adjustments for a system that isn’t one-size-fits-all.
The fix isn’t some massive perk rework or power overhaul. It’s giving players control over the kinds of killers they face.
Imagine if DbD had:
- Category Queues: “Classic Horror” (Myers, Pig, Ghostface), “Supernatural” (Spirit, Artist, Dredge), “Gimmick Killers” (Knight, Skull Merchant, Legion). You pick the vibe you want.
- Filters / Bans: Don’t want to face Legion? Toggle it off, accept slightly longer queue times. Same for Huntress, Trickster, etc.
- Weighted Queues: If everyone wants to play as Huntress, her queue time gets longer. Meanwhile underplayed killers like Clown or Pig get faster matchmaking through market forces, naturally increasing variety.
- Lobby Information: Survivors knowing what category of killer they’re going into would let them mentally prep instead of feeling blindsided. Not the exact killer — just whether it’s stealth horror, chase-based, or supernatural.
The queue time incentive system would solve the diversity problem organically. Right now, BHVR tries to make Clown viable through buffs, but the real issue is people don’t want to risk getting him randomly when they’re in the mood for something else (this applies to all killers by the way). If players could actively choose “underplayed killers” for faster queues, suddenly Clown matches happen because people opted into that experience. This could even allow more experimental killers (like what Ghoul was) to be added more frequently, since players who don’t want them wouldn’t be forced into those matches.
Other games have figured this out:
- Overwatch lets players filter their lobbies.
- Outlast Trials leans into co-op thematics.
- MOBAs have bans/picks to prevent “samey” metas.
DbD is still pretending all killers belong in the same random pool, when the truth is this game is an anthology of horror subgenres.
If DbD treated itself that way, you’d fix:
- The endless “Legion AGAIN” complaints.
- Survivors burning out on repeat matchups.
- Killer diversity being nonexistent (despite the large roster).
- Balance constantly feeling like it swings too far in one direction.
This one change could do more for DbD’s long-term health than any perk rework or map tweak. It’s about giving players agency and leaning into the fact that horror is broad. Not every killer scratches the same itch, and pretending they do is why so many people are frustrated.
DbD could finally stop feeling like a slot machine and start feeling like the true horror anthology it’s supposed to be.
So I’ll put the question to you: if we had killer filters, categories, or bans, would DbD finally feel fairer — or do you genuinely believe randomness is better than player choice?
if we had killer filters, categories, or bans, would DbD finally feel fairer — or do you genuinely believe randomness is better than player choice?For us we believe this randomness is better as its also player choice, just the opponent's.
While we kinda like the idea of weighted ques, all of them (with the exception of lobby information which has a different issue to us) have the same problem of effectively punishing who people want to play as with longer wait times. People keep seeing the same old killers because people want to play as them (reasons vary). Its a coin flip because of how people play. The "iconic horror vibe" wont show itself even if its a Meyers if said player plays like a **** and bleeds out everyone on the dirt. Some people wanna win at all costs and will go turbo nurse levels. Others want to recreate that horror vibe and will actively do so. You get the point. With lobby info, the survivors will stack all their metaphorical eggs in that basket to give themselves the best chance they can. in a "chase" lobby expect things like exhaustion perks, windows, and anti tunnel, while people will figure out what counts as "supernatural" and plan for that.
You also cant really compare DBD to those other games as its an asymmetrical game. Overwatch and mobas like league and heroes of the storm are symmetrical and balanced accordingly. Never played outlast trials but isnt it 4 people vs a bot? Not a 5th human? Balancing this mess is much different than any of those.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989121#Comment_3989121
The first time around it was approximately five minutes to get a killer match from the ones I played. They have only gotten worse the longer it's gone on for, coinciding with things like adding blight, spirit, legion, oni, and now the effective removal of the guide class.
I'm saying and have been saying that legion and oni's powers just don't work in 2v8. Individually and together they are a nightmare and should never have been added. You claim this is fine because they synergize well? What if survivors got two new items called "ammo" and "gun" and could just kill the killer whenever they felt like it? It does not matter if they synergize well what matters is if they are so comically overpowered they drive down the playerbase to such an astronomically low level killers are routinely seeing 30-40 minute que times.
And just means you are being insincere, it's not that uncommon of a word but given you were being sarcastic it's not an insult it's just a statement of fact.
…well gotta say your a lucky devil then and we're jealous. Was roughly 20+ish minutes each time one of us tried as killer. The bonus to that is its been the same for us back then as is now so its not all much longer.
The thing is they do. We've been able to open a door with them together, we've been slaughtered with them together. Your ammo and gun doesn't work cause its not an instant win with a oni and legion combo. They still gotta work for their kills, your still able to outplay them, and assuming your team is competent, you have a chance to escape. Through the doors even. Just because its more difficult to go against killers who synergize well, doesn't mean they need gone.
Insincere and sarcasm is two different things. Those wait times have been the same for us and the people we play with. Using wait times literally doesn't prove anything to us cause there's been no change to us. Also we're pretty sure we can be sincere and mocking at once. -
@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989118#Comment_3989118
Gee, if only this mode was out before and had que times we could compare. If you want to be glib then have a better argument.
Pretty sure they're similar as the last times. Well past 25 min as killer. It was similar the first iteration, similar the second iteration, and again and again. The difference is this time you dont feel it as bad due to "play while you wait". Trying to throw the que time aint showing nothing on legion and oni.
The problem is this topic is trying to discuss how to make legion more bearable. At least that's how it seems to us. Your saying "cant do it, both oni and legion need gone because they work well together".
Legion and Oni's powers literally are incompatible on a fundamental level in 2v8 because their powers are designed around there
notbeing another killer.…as an aside it seems that both their powers are extremely compatible [(of two people) able to have a harmonious relationship: well-suited.] with each other which is basically what your issue is. They help each other's weakness. They have synergy. Can't have any disscussion when you dismiss it outta hand.
…also what does "glib" mean? Kinda just assuming its an insult but not sure.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989065#Comment_3989065
They should be removed. Once again their powers aren't healthy for 2v8 and unless you are being willfully blind to killers getting 40 minute que times that should be pretty undeniable at this point.
Gee, could it be that a factor of que times being long is that its a limited time mode where killers can play with their friends and murder survivors?… ya know…just a thought.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988924#Comment_3988924
Because you don't address the actual issues. You are doing what the devs did to Ghoul where you say you fixed it but in reality did nothing to address the actual issues.
The problem we see is that your issue can be boiled down to "those killers work well together"…so how the hell is anything other than gutting, full reworking, or removal going to solve that?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988576#Comment_3988576
No its not hostile to rile someone up. Is a survivor teabagging toxic? The point is that its a strategy. Have you never been to a tournament before for nearly any game, or sport, or boxing, or football, or anything? Its a strategy to get in the head of your opponents and get them to make a mistake.
Look, more hoops. You realize that people have claimed t-bagging is toxic right? In fact there's been arguments for letting the killer abandon once the exit gates are powered and one such argument for is to avoid the t-bagging survivors in the door. Why would that be again? Your still also purposely ignoring the point here. Well say it again for your convenience. You can use a valid strategy and still be toxic. They are NOT mutually exclusive even with the definition you provided. No matter how much you want to deny it. That's the point we're trying to get through.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988576#Comment_3988576
My entire point is that you should be mad at the devs, not at the players for using these strategies. The game does not understand that "tunneling is toxic" because it lets you do it.
Let me put it this way for you.
Lets say i'm a new player, never played the game before. I bought the game because it looks cool, and i queue up as killer. I start playing the game a bit, learning how it works having a good time, but i'm losing a lot of games. So i start focusing on trying to get better. Trying to understand how i should be playing to win more games.
Then, i think to myself, wait, if survivors only have 3 hook states, and when someone gets unhooked they are injured, that means that they are weaker and they should be an easier target. Plus, if i get them out of the game sooner then maybe i'll be able to win games more because i can quickly turn the game into a 1v3 instead of a 1v4. Let me try that.
So, i play another game. This time i try "tunneling" although, i don't even know the name of this thing, its just a stategy that i thought of that naturally emerges from the obvious things the game is presenting. But then i come across a problem, i hit the survivor who gets unhooked, but they get this weird status effect i have never seen before. So i think to myself "hmm this isn't going to work, it looks like they are protected when they are off the hook".
So maybe next game i try playing survivor, to try and understand what it is that is going on, and maybe learn some strategies that i can employ by playing the other side of it. Then it happens, i get hooked, and i see that endurance icon. That's when i see that the protection doesn't last very long, just 10 seconds. So now i think to myself, maybe i can wait out that protection, not hit the survivor, and then hit them when the 10 seconds are up. That should work.
So i queue up another game as killer, and i give it a try. I hook a survivor, wait for them to get unhooked, then count to 10 while chasing them. After 10 seconds, i swing at them, and lo and behold, they are downed! Its working! So i pick them up, put them back on the hook, and then do it again. And it works! They are out of the game, and that was super quick, it only took about a minute or 2. And now the game is a 1v3. From here, i have a much easier time at it and start winning my games more often.
What has just happened here? Did i know i was playing "toxic"? Did i do anything the game didn't let me do? No, i didn't do any of that, i just learned what the game was giving me in terms of information, and employed a strategy that, quite frankly, makes a lot of sense in the context of the game. And, what was the result of that? I won MORE games. The game itself actually encouraged and reinforced this behavior and strategy, because it resulted in me winning more games. So i got the positive reinforcement that this was working and it was the right play to make.
And, whose to say this player is wrong? Again, the game didn't do anything to tell me this was "wrong" if anything it did the opposite, it actively encouraged me that this was the correct way to play the game, by getting me more wins than before.
This player in this scenario is not being toxic, they are simply learning the game with what little tools the game has given you to learn the game.
Thus, my ultimate point again, is that your ire should not be directed at players who employ a strategy that game lets them, and actively rewards them and encourages them to do. You should be directing that anger at the devs who allow such a strategy to flourish.
This is not to say that i think these things are good for the game, i actually don't. I think that tunneling and camping should be completely removed from the game as an impossibility, the game should not encourage me for doing those things. But, i don't direct my anger at players who use it, i direct it to the devs for making horrible decisions and leaving these problems in the game for a literal decade.
At this point, given how long its been in the game, you need to start asking yourself who is to blame here. If it is a strategy that has existed since the inception of the game for nearly a decade, whose fault is it that this strategy exists?
Why would we be mad at the devs for other people's choices? What did the devs do? They gave players the freedom of choice. It maybe a double edged sword, but we're actually grateful we're not railroaded into playing a specific way. Others use this freedom to be awful to other players. Not the devs. We can be angry at the devs when they break something in the code, make changes we disagree with, but letting players play? No. That's on the players.
You keep saying the game doesn't know. It's the game doesn't care. The game is a bunch of code, why would it care about anything toxic even if it knows what it is? "This strategy may make players miserable but you increase your chances to win many times over". Who both cares and knows? The players, who it affects. Hell your definition relates to the players and the game's community more than the game itself. Player behavior and all that.
Your story is kinda funny. So first off you can be unintentionally toxic. It may not be malicious toxicity, but if the rest of it fits your definition, guess what. The second is that's how one person may learn about "winning" (hey look, competitive pressure) just the same another may learn by using outside the box thinking. Another might go "hey these perks look amazing" buy them and jump from there. We're also ignoring the obvious thing of what happens when the survivors call you out on it? What happens when that happens to you as a new player over and over again? You may get over it, may not think it's toxic, but wanna say that for everyone?
We already said why we're not blaming the devs for something they didn't do. No matter how many times we're asked, by you, player number 356432, Santa claws, whomever, the three of us always put the blame on who did it. Surprisingly it seems like it always is the players.
Let's put it this way, someone hits you with a baseball bat, do you blame the guy who hit you, the company that made the bat, or the baseball bat itself. Don't know about you, but we'd blame the guy with the bat.
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Technically the only downside we can think of is the lobby dodges. These lobby dodges would have a much more valid reason but they do still mess up the already finicky matchmaking. Soooo a wash either way? Neutral at best?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988490#Comment_3988490
Well smacking the player could easily be a form of trying to rile the player up to cause them to make mistakes. Like, idk, survivors teabagging a killer when they drop a pallet? Or some other thing? As for the other stuff, see my above post. Toxicity in gaming has a hard definition where behavior in game is really only applicable as it relates to griefing. And griefing in DBD has hard defined rules clearly stated on their support site, as it is a reportable category in the report system. And everything you stated here is actually CLEARLY defined as "NOT REPORTABLE" in another article. Thus, not griefing.
Jumping through alotta hoops to try and justify them.
Welp, if you so desperately wanna use your definition:Toxicity in gaming refers to malicious or hostile player behavior that disrupts the online environment and harms other players, ranging from verbal abuse like hate speech and harassment to behavioral misconduct such as griefing (disrupting gameplay for others) and doxing (sharing private information). This behavior creates an unpleasant and unsafe atmosphere, often escalating due to factors like player anonymity, competitive pressure, and the contagious nature of negative actions within a community.
Kinda hostile to purposefully try and rile up a fellow human wanting to enjoy a game and who did nothing to you as a person within the match (Leon). Kinda malicious and possibly hostile to simply watch a person bleed out for 4ish minutes with them knowing you "could" hook them at any given point but aren't and for reasons at best petty (Nancy was keeping him decently busy durring her 2 chases) at worse just mean (just to watch them bleed. Remember he was explicitly watching her for like 90% of the time). Kinda seemed like he wanted me more than the win as he was ignoring the bot till it forced his hand to slug it.
Could swear this kind of behavior is disruptive (causing disruption: [disturbance or problems which interrupt an event, activity, or process]) to peoples experience of having a "normal" trial because people keep on complaining about things like this. Personally we think its a good reason too. Pretty sure **** like this harms at least some other players either mentally or emotionally. Its defiantly creating an unpleasant atmosphere. The clown seems to be fitting toxic more and more, and thats even if we be nice and exclude malicious since we're not 100% sure what he was thinking.
Hmm…player anonymity, meaning no one can really judge you for your actions. Players being ****s cause theres no consequences? Sounds bout right with many online games. Competitive pressure, meaning wanting to win (or not lose) more than anything else. And the spreading (contagious nature) of negative actions in a community, looking at some of the conversations above for that one. Strange isnt it, that slugging and some of the reasons people seem to slug fit snugly here? All these combined sound like every reason we hear on why people slug.
And before you go on and say something like "its not defined by DBD as griefing" greifing is not the whole definition as this definition says:
ranging from verbal abuse like hate speech and harassment to behavioral misconduct such as griefing (disrupting gameplay for others) and doxing (sharing private information).
Ranging. Theres more to consider than just whatever is considered greifing to be toxic, and that clowns behavior fit pretty well by all the other metrics. Hell slugging in general fits "toxic" pretty well as said above and its not greifing, occasionally its even necessary such as 4 dolts with flashlights. What could that mean? It could mean that you can have valid strategies be used as "toxic". Surprising.
Well…seems like this all fits that definition of "toxicity"…so what hoop is next?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988365#Comment_3988365
You don't know what that player was thinking. You don't know if they were or were not doing something, or what their plan was. It could have been that they felt bad about the DC and were giving you all chance to escape. Maybe they went afk, and you all just read into it too much. Maybe they thought that was the best way to secure the win. You have no idea.
The point is though, you immediately went to the "well he tunneled" argument or "well he slugged and didn't pick up what a loser". Again, playing the video game is not toxic. If i play a fighting game, and just throw fireballs over and over again, that is not toxic. If my opponent doesn't know how to deal with my throwing fireballs over and over again, and i get the win, that is on my opponent for not knowing how to deal with such a tactic. And, if hypothetically the fireball was just so strong that it was the best move in the game, and i was trying to win, why would i not use the move that statistically gives me the best odds of winning my match? Why would i handicap myself through some fictitious set of rules that the game knows nothing about?
DBD doesn't "know" about tunneling, it doesn't "know" anything. All it knows is, did i win the game, or did i lose?
Ironically, such a complaint you have should again be lodged at the devs. Because we used to have a system that cared about the quality of your matches (not just whether you escaped or got the kill) and they decided to scrap it for this system. So again, you should be pointing your ire toward the devs for allowing such a thing to occur.
I'd guess you are the type of person who would hate playing say MTG, and be mad because "the opponent countered my spell" or "they removed my creature" when those things are literally designed specifically to do that very thing.
You don't know what that player was thinking.
Welp, what info can we all gleam off of Leon, who he wanted immediatly while smacking him on the hook a few times for good measure? What can we infer from the Nancy, who the Clown watched crawl and bleed out? What can we guess from the clown pointedly ignoring the bot and hunting the map, possibly for yours truely? You really believe they we're giving us a chance to escape? Think it was the best way to secure a win leaving people to do gens? Or maybe the simplest answer fits best? Occam's razor is a favorite for a reason.
The point is though, you immediately went to the "well he tunneled" argument or "well he slugged and didn't pick up what a loser".
You missed the point completely or are ignoring it. The point is you CAN be toxic while playing the game, especially when that game gives you as much freedom as DBD does. You say its the developer's fault, but whos choosing to do these actions? Look above, was it the best tactic for winning to watch Nancy as a slug? Leon was dead at the time, coulda hooked to use his perks or something, coulda went hunting for one of the other 2 to leave Nancy as an anchor one of us woulda needed to get. We got a free gen+ outta it instead. Slugging is a valid strategy, that can be used in ways like this to make others miserable and deemed "toxic".
DBD doesn't "know" about tunneling, it doesn't "know" anything. All it knows is, did i win the game, or did i lose?
DbD is also made of real people with real thoughts, emotions, etc. Those people can know how they lost, what that feeling is, was the loss fun or boring, etc. Dbd itself isn't toxic, its what people often do in it, including using strategies in it to make others miserable, which is usually deemed "toxic" (by the entity lets see how many times i can hammer this)
Ironically, such a complaint you have should again be lodged at the devs.
Been here before, aint the devs fault. Again, dbd has alot of freedom, people being ****s with the freedom is on the players, which is why we are often vocal about our dislike of the people.
I'd guess you are the type of person who would hate playing say MTG, and be mad because "the opponent countered my spell" or "they removed my creature" when those things are literally designed specifically to do that very thing.
Funny thing is the three of us love playing mtg. Rakdos and Mardu specifically. Thing is, you can still be "toxic" while using valid things (ya know, the point of our whole argument). Possibly literally with Phyrexia.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988298#Comment_3988298
A player can "be toxic" in that they are saying something. But a strategy in a video game is not toxic. You do not get to dictate how a player plays the game. There is nothing wrong with utilitizng a strategy that exists in the game.
Should i get mad at survivors for doing gens and not cleansing dull totems? I mean, why not spend time going after those useless totems? You get extra bloodpoints? I can't believe you would be so toxic and just work on gens.
I can't believe that killer didn't hook me, and then immediately run to the opposite end of the map, and face the wall for 30 seconds before starting another chase, and then making sure to completely ignore me while i did a gen in their face. It was so unfair.
There is nothing wrong with utilitizng a strategy that exists in the game.
So let me tell you a story (alternatively you can skip the next 3 paragraphs but I think you're missing out).
There was a game a couple weeks ago, Clown at Coldwind (the one with the slaughter house specifically). Team included me, a Nancy, a feng, and a leon running a memeish build (weaving spiders). Surprisingly no one quit at the first minute (leon set off spiders within the minute probably started near basement) until feng heard the terror radius (or the bottle breaking) and noped out via DC. The match went semi normal till Leon was caught being a hero (for reference, me and leon both had to go down the basement to rescue Nancy before she hit second due to him camping and the bot not giving him a reason to not camp. Leon snuck past when I went down to try for Nancy and got us both). All the match before this shouldn't be considered toxic by most. It's what follows.
Clown got bored of camping and started looking for people, found Nancy again and chase they go. As soon as the bot unhooked leon, clown goes straight back. Leon soon dies tunneled after his hooks with the clown hitting him on hook each time (neither me nor Nancy got that treatment). Sometimes after leon dies clown catches Nancy, but the oddest thing happens. She doesn't get hooked. Instead she's slugged as the clown guards her (I checked and the terror radius never left the slugged area for more than 4 seconds) and can't blame the bot on that one as it flipped between gens and trying to save with primary on gens (go bot). It's not even slugging for the 4k as both me and the bot are still standing. He just watches her bleed in the corner she crawled to, and I mean that she literally crawled from where she went down into a corner.
So now we're at me and the bot, or rather the bot as the clown pointedly ignored said bot for a pretty long time, as in a gen popped long, before he slugs for the 4k. Me being petty with a full healing build, I get the bot up and the game goes till I'm backed against the wall, found, and chased. Eventually I hop in a locker and I can only call petty (yes pot calling kettle) as he thinks I got head on and is doing his damnedest to avoid it while I sit there chuckling dark as the bot works. It isn't till another gen pops that the clown finally said screw it, grabs me, and drops me to get the bot. Obviously he gets the bot and I've crawled a mile. The match ended with me getting lucky with hatch spawning in my face. Or the entity giving a middle finger to the clown.
If you bothered to read that story, it's shows how someone can play normal and play what some would call "toxic" and even do both within the same trial. Strategies can be used to be "toxic" just like words (sometimes actions speak louder than words after all). Just being in the game doesn't inherently mean it's not "toxic" especially when it's subjective.
Should i get mad at survivors for doing gens and not cleansing dull totems?
You can do as you will. People will claim it can't be toxic just like you claim that these strategies can't be toxic. You can play as is allowed, but you don't have any authority to say that it isn't toxic to someone. Especially when a player is obviously trying to make others miserable even when using valid strategies.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988270#Comment_3988270
Playing a video game is not toxic. If you don't like how the player is playing, your problem should be with the developers for allowing the player to play that way, not at the player.
Orrrr you can play a video game while being toxic. It's not mutually exclusive. We'd also blame the players over the devs since they're the ones choosing to play that way, but that's an us thing.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988089#Comment_3988089
Player the game is not toxic. The endgame chat part there, yeah sure. But playing the game is not toxic.
Depends on how you define "toxic". If someone plays like an arse, we'd be unsurprised if it would be considered toxic.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984514#Comment_3984514
How are you gonna say i'm asking to bring comms to dbd based on "what ifs" then "what if" your next question. makes no sense.
Also im not basing anything on what ifs, its a fact that comms would make dbd fun again, comms makes everything fun. rather than adding buffs to surv that arent needed which inevitably makes the killer role feel even more awful to play.
and about being told to shut up…. MUTE!
and lastly, i want comms in dbd FOR SOLO Q. idc about premade swfs on discord. thats not what im talking about. AND EVEN THEN, how is everyone so againt the idea of comms in dbd then so fine with people using discord like make it make sense it sounds like you just want to gatekeep comms from solo q players or something like i genuinely cant find a reason that isnt you guys just being scared of social interactions lmfao.
…your "what ifs" are what your assuming will happen if in game coms came while our "what ifs" are based on what we're assuming will happen. For example you say in a previous post:
no they wouldnt, idk what bubble you're living in but every game where comms is available to be used, it gets used.
You assume they'll be used, when theres been people on this thread going "nope" to it.
Also im not basing anything on what ifs, its a fact that comms would make dbd fun again, comms makes everything fun.
…Yea no. Coms in fact would not automatically make dbd fun,. Thats an opinion, specifically your opinion. Your welcome to your opinion, but you can't claim it as fact, especially when theres some like us who would find coms…unwelcome. If you want an example, please refer to our (his?) being told to shut up.
and about being told to shut up…. MUTE!
Remember how we get to the point where 80% or so people will stop using coms within a few weeks? Its because people will keep muting from **** like this. Meaning our prediction becomes less a "what if" and more of an actual fact.
and lastly, i want comms in dbd FOR SOLO Q.
If a majority of people would mute the coms, then it wouldn't do any good. The reasons would vary from person to person, but they would not want to talk/hear others talk. Again your going to say something along the lines of "then just mute them if you dont want to hear them, but this is for the people who want coms" but thats where the issue we've been repeating and your ignoring is. If a lot of people are going to mute, then this is for a few which already has a solution via outside parties. Next is "you don't know that for sure", which is true, we don't know for certain what would happen, but you also do not know for sure that a majority of people would use coms. Both is just guess work, but then consider how the dbd community is considered highly toxic (and I think we're being mild here).
People are "so fine" with using discord because its made up of people who they want to chat with. The people who want to be able to vocally communicate with each other have an avenue to do so without the risks of having to mute everyone, listen to random people criticize how they play, listening to background conversations, etc.
i genuinely cant find a reason that isnt you guys just being scared of social interactions lmfao.
Outta curiosity, have you actually read any of the many valid reasons that people posted?
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984489#Comment_3984489
you cant assure anything because its never been implemented, meaning you have no idea how anything will play out. your only reason for not wanting it is based on "what ifs". therefore is not reasonable.
You realize your also basing on "what ifs". After all, "what if" your wrong? Above you say that inTCM if you asked them to speak they spoke, yet thats not always true, infact once when one of us spoke he was actually told to shut up. "What if" something like this happens? Mute it? Then our prediction above begins happening. Unable to mute it? Well thats a bad box of chaos to open. Even if we are basing on "what ifs", it does not detract the fact of theres currently things like discord for people who want to chat with each other.
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@AcesSpeedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984046#Comment_3984046
turn it off then? no would be trying to stop you. just because you dont want something doesnt mean you have to disregard everyone who does want it because you have few issues. i have social anxiety too, doesnt stop me wanting to be able to communicate with my team mates in team based games.
When its off how would you be able to communicate? We assure you over 80% would have it muted after the first week or so at best and a lot sooner at worse, meaning you wouldn't be able to communicate after that time with a majority of the players. If you wanted to communicate with people why not invite them to a discord or something? That way you can chat with people who'd actually want to chat.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3982112#Comment_3982112
To play devil's advocate, it is a fragile pallet. Respecting them to avoid the stun is outright stronger than against regular pallets, because if a survivor does try and drop it, you get a free hit instead of giving them distance by breaking the pallet yourself.
I could see it being mildly annoying in very on-the-ball team comps, but I don't know that it'd be outright unhealthy.
Yes but the thing to us is it's repeatable with no cost for many "threats" a pallet brings. It basically becomes the anniversary ability without the rest of the party and we don't think it'd be a good thing.
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Possibly? Just the fact of the threat of a pallet is a decent thing on its own. Getting repeatedly stunned without a pallet eating build normally will cost killers lots of time. Now imagine both those being unlimited, and if we wanted worst case, from 4 survivors coordinating.
Not sure if it would be op but definitely don't think it would be a healthy thing regardless.
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For silly things we generally give a "pass" to survivors who manage to start playing a lute for us (or not immediately murder them). We will also often go out of our way to attempt to hook everyone once if presented the opportunity.
That said, we're a random mains, not a killer mains.
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For us it will be when the game becomes more of a pain than fun. Unfortunately it's reaching to the boiling point between the player's actions and dev decisions.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453288/so-much-us-vs-them-these-days
Alright, let the epic Us vs. Them showdown begin!
This one is so much better than the real version…
For the topic, while we agree with pretty much all of the op we'd also think if the downvote went away there'd end up being more us vs them posts from people as more people would be more inclined to type it out instead of click-and-forget. Not defending the downvote button or anything, just our thoughts. -
For our 3 cents we'd like to see a reversion, but don't think it's particularly necessary. We're simple and greedy, we like stealing items, especially from wannabe bullies bring a bunch of flashlights. However if we set aside our feelings of more, simply making survivors drop items on hit is good enough.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974977#Comment_3974977
Perks alone won’t save you once I start tunneling; they only help you reach certain structures. In the end, it comes down to your map knowledge, how well you use your camera, how cleverly you connect structures, and how strong you perform in the chase.
Team coordination? Y... and on some maps it’s absolutely crucial.
skill?
Talking about skill in DBD is always tricky. It’s just... not a super hardcore game. At some point, the skill cap is basically reached by both sides, and everyone understands everything the game has to offer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974976#Comment_3974976
You don’t have to argue with me — but I’ll keep doing it anyway. I won’t just sit back and watch while only one opinion gets to define what balance in this game should look like, and I’ll continue to share mine. I hope that’s still allowed.
And as for so-called “unbalanced” mechanics… I don’t think it’s unbalanced for the killer to play around the hook. um.. , there are quite a few things on the survivor side that I personally find way more unbalanced.
and.. Just like you’re sharing your perspective, I’ll keep trying to defend the killer side with everything I’ve got — to make sure things don’t get taken away that, in my personal opinion, are necessary and a legitimate part of the game. What BHVR decides to do with all these voices is ultimately up to them — not up to us.
And what will I do if BHVR starts listening mostly to takes I personally don’t agree with?
I’m willing to adapt.
Uh… you’ll probably be seeing a lot of “Nurse only” from my side, with a heavy dose of “I don’t care about anyone else’s fun in this match.” idk.Assuming this one is ours yes?
Perks alone won’t save you once I start tunneling; they only help you reach certain structures.
That's sort of why tunneling is considered a "balance problem". Each and every killer can do this free and easy with no cost to them unless one of the given A, B, C points happens. Those perks don't help much but they are one of the few things that do help against it. It's a perk slot or 4 to impact tunneling vs basekit, no cost, nothing special. The rest of that paragraph is about skill, which is below 👇
Team coordination
Without coordinating, having someone survive being hardcore tunneled is pretty low less that one survivor is much better. More on that below. Without the team both being efficient and trying to buy breathing room to the tunneled, that tunneled is going down much quicker due to that metaphorical stacked deck. The rest of the team soon follows as 1: it's a 3v1 with who knows how many gens left (if you reach 3 on the gen count, your in trouble as survivors) 2: those 3 left probably have a lot less resources due to the tunneled probably trying their damnedest to survive making the next chases shorter.
skill
Let's put it this way: Who's more likely to buy more time for the team against a newbie killer, a newbie or a veteran? A newbie survivor isn't likely to live even against a newbie killer not tunneling. That veteran, while not really getting to do anything else but be chased, could probably last 4-5 gens if they're that good. The balance problem come from how much skill it takes on the survivors end to off set the killers tunneling which is a lot less effort. Even average player (skill wise) will have a difficult time against a tunneling newbie.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974967#Comment_3974967
I have a hard time understanding the point here. Where exactly is the supposed balance problem?
I absolutely get that certain situations in the game can feel frustrating. But just because something didn’t go your way in a specific match doesn’t automatically mean it’s a systemic balance issue — and just because it bothers you doesn’t mean it’s objectively a problem.
If we start labeling every subjectively frustrating experience as a balance problem, those terms start to lose their meaning. Not every (maybe for you) uncomfortable situation in the game is a design flaw — sometimes it’s just part of the core mechanics, part of the dynamic between two opposing roles.
Where exactly is the supposed balance problem?
We'd argue its the fact that the killer has a basekit repeatable way to heavily stack a chase in their favor while the survivor has no way to migrate that without A: a specialized perk/build to counter that specific scenario, B: great coordination by the team, C: having much more skill than the killer trying to tunnel.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974427#Comment_3974427
Could we let the lil fellow stay awhile? See if he likes fog or develops language skills?
Poor Maurice is getting competition now 🤣
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@Iron_Cutlass does this count for the free space too?
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What keeps you here?
The gameplay itself. It's chaotic enough that we can't predict whats going to happen, despite the opponents efforts of trying to be predictable. It also allows a lot of player agency on how you complete your objectives (this is admittedly a double edged sword) allowing flexibility, some creativity, and occasional funny moments.
Do you feel heard as a player?
To a certain extent. We however know that we're just 3 relatively quiet voices in a sea of loud angry. We also think that while the devs should look at the feedback, they're under no obligation to listen and considering how people can be with knee jerk reactions, it seems pretty valid to us.
What would it take for you to actually walk away from DBD?
Unsure. Probably when the game becomes more misery than fun. Most of our problems comes from the other players rather than anything else (the usuals such as immediate tunneling and basic ***** build killers and wannabe flashlight bullies to the (now) uncommon of being an arse trying to get killed on purpose, killers slugging and bleeding people out, or teammates literally doing nothing to try and escape).
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@XDgamer018 said:
All i want in dbd is the indoraptor tbh
Seconded.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972840#Comment_3972840
20% is way too less of a chance to make them worth using. Because you will not only not get your map most of the time, but you are also missing out on other Offerings like BP-Offerings.
IMO Map Offerings should always be 100% and the issue is more that the Maps are too x-sided so that people use Map Offerings. Going to a Map to gain an advantage is fine, the problem is more that the advantage was too much for some Maps. (Even tho, nowadays I think that due to them nerfing Map Offerings, it is less urgent to rework some Maps.)
They should just retire Map Offerings and give BP-Compensation.
As those who doesn't give a flying fk about bp, map offerings still are worth using if we want a change of scenery. Our own opinions say it should stay a percentage cause, as much as we'll miss scratch mirror Mikey, we're not fans of rigging the trial in the favor of one side or the other. We want random (dis)advantage.
@R2k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972840#Comment_3972840
Because at some point you have it so much, it's millions BP eating dust on your shelf. I would gladly convert them into something else
A recycling center would be nice. That said they only collect dust if you don't use them.
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@Ryan489x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972940#Comment_3972940
this is the first I’ve ever heard of it being a thing so it’s far more rare then you’re making it sound.
Not sure how many would make it public knowledge that they'd target over that, but we've seen it in the past and it's definitely more than likely in the present. Also apparently MrDardon above has had people go target others due to lack of bp offerings which sadly wouldn't surprise us in the least.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972986#Comment_3972986
Killer A: I don't like toolboxes
Killer B: I don't like medkits
Killer C: I don't like vials
Rydiafan: Killers hate all survivor items!
I, personally, don't mind toolboxes or medkits. I really hate fog vials.
Soooo because they generalized it?
fair enough, though gonna point out that's not what they said.
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Neet.
Despite how it sums…a lot… we dont explicitly see how their (rydiafan) comment fits this
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gonna admit, Goomba Fallacy is a new one to us. Whats it mean?
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972840#Comment_3972840
dude I got autohaven like 3 times and then I played a map (the game) guess what I got autohaven 4th time so yes maps are useless.
does nothing for map rotation.
1/5. Your own luck then.
@Ryan489x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972840#Comment_3972840
do you know how often the hunting down tge person who played the map happened practically never
Considering we've seen people on these very forums say they'd hunt a survivor down if they new who brought map offerings and knowing our community, seems like a pretty safe bet some would.
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We realy dont get why people keep saying "pointless". If you hate whatever maps are on rotation you can make it so theres a 1/5 chance that its a different realm. Statistics say thats a good chance. The reason for secrecy is because some people will happily hunt down whomever tried playing those offerings.
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Umm it sounds like a bug to us.
Can anyone else confirm?
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Pray the killer likes elvish lute playing.
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Congratulations
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Bubba - The same thing of walk up, rev, down if successful otherwise go again, repeat.
Billy - The exact same reason as bubba except he's mobile too.Depends on who we've seen the most during the night, though personal mention to plague. I like my self destructive healing build.