Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774646#Comment_3774646
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774649#Comment_3774649
No, I get that - and I entirely agree. My point in regards to why it sucks for killers is that before, you literally could have that thought - that person has OTR - they aren't progressing objectives and it's not worth chasing them down. I'm not going to go after them (again, a deterrent to tunnel them). However, now that might not actually be OTR - they VERY well could be a VERY vulnerable survivor that merely has Iron Will. While before, you'd let them go, now you have to go after them OR never touch them (which obviously isn't an option). Imagine never touching a survivor because you think they have OTR only to end up that they never had it and have been pushing gens the whole time and you had ample opportunity to down them.
This change to iron will makes OTR problematic for both sides. OTR is no longer a deterrent, and killers now are obligated to go after anyone who is silent at the risk of potentially wasting time on an OTR user.
First thing, if someone wants to tunnel, no amount of deterrents are going to stop them unless it's game breaking. That's pretty much a fact. We don't go out of our way to tunnel, but those that do probably don't care what you got.
Second, we as killer still feel nothing different as we don't care wether or not they got OTR or IW as we'll hit whomever we please regardless. The fact that they're silent never crosses into our minds as if they're in front of us, they are a target that needs delt with. We would not let them go just because they're silent because that would be silly as even if they had OTR, they're going to either A have to mend or B contend with us once hit. We don't feel any more obligated (Defined as: bound to a course of action) to do anything because of iron will.
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OTR has now essentially de-volved into a free extra health state as long as you aren't progressing the game
As long as you're not progressing the game, we as a killer couldn't care less since it gives us more time to murder your teammates.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774487#Comment_3774487
The jar is so gross. Even after so much desensitization, they’re still so gross to think about! 🤢
Does the fact that they're now burning salty lips make it better? 🙂
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Jars of salty lips will finally be pulled out the pantry and be tossed into the campfire
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Leave our bird lady alone
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773427#Comment_3773427
Nah the trick is to camp smart, camp but don't make it obvious. Make it look like it's safe for unhook but when they go for it, tunnel em. If it's a whole team of smart pro loopers then not camping wouldn't help much because it would leave the hooked guy open to be freed and I would still have to spend ages trying to catch a pro looper which could end up with 0k at the end. It's a judgment call I suppose, 70 seconds of camping v 70 seconds of trying to catch another looper while the other goes free. If it takes longer than 70 seconds to catch someone then I might as well sit on the hook and secure a kill. It might bite me on the butt on occasions but i still think it's worth securing a kill where I can get them, won't reduce camping. I'm thinking Myers double iri, proxi camp by hook, when they jump of mori em.
believe what ya will, we're getting bored pointing out the same obvious flaws with this again and again.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771559#Comment_3771559
I can't speak for everyone but I can say is in my opinion, camping and tunneling to get 3 v 1 asap will still be worth the sacrifice of a couple of gens.
I could go after a guy on gen but if it's a team of really good loopers then I'm setting myself up for a lose. Nah if the others want to get a few gens done while I camp and tunnel it's fine, I would rather deal with 3 survivors and have 1 gen left than deal with 4 and have 2 or 3 gens left. Protecting that last gen and the endgame is usually where I get the most hooks ending in 3/4k sometimes 3k only because hatch is unavoidable in some cases regardless of how many gens are done. Especially when it spawns at the survivors feet after not doing any gens the whole match lol
And when you eventually get to the point where the whole team is both smart and good loopers…then what?
Your free to do whatever, but the point stands that sitting at a hook for over a minute while 3 other survivors work on gens without any worry is usually gonna bite campers in the butt if the survivors are smart.
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... well now we're going to become paranoid
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771559#Comment_3771559
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771634#Comment_3771634
Not on all killers. The best play is still, and always be 99,999% of the times, to go back to the hook.
There needs to be an "incentive", a reward, for getting different hooks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771560#Comment_3771560
Problem: if they don't tunnel then survivors can immediately negate the pressure with Resurgence, and heal in 3 seconds with a medkit. So there is no option.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771565#Comment_3771565
This seems more fair, even if I would have done different durations for the different hook phases.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771566#Comment_3771566
Exactly, which doesn't solve anything really. It just punishes low tier and mid tier killers for no reason.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771582#Comment_3771582
Yep.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771583#Comment_3771583
"They fail to realise though that making the hook stages 70s will hurt killers who dont camp more than it will hurt killers that do. Every time you hook someone the rest of their team has an extra 10s on a gen before they have to go unhook that person. That's more progress than a Surge proc, for example."
EXACTLY THIS. Couldn't explain it better.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771590#Comment_3771590
If survivors leave the teammate reach second stage, not saving them, USUALLY there is something that went wrong in their macro pressure. Which is why, imo, if that happens, the second stage should be shorter, being 50 seconds.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771596#Comment_3771596
Now it's not even "16 seconds later they healed", it's 2/3 seconds with Resurgence HAHAHAHAHA. So to avoid it you gotta stay super close to the hook.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771598#Comment_3771598
In comp this is LITERALLY terrible. Literally terrible. Awful change.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771610#Comment_3771610
EXACTLY. Commodious toolboxes are still so so broken.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771632#Comment_3771632
Alright, then you don't really know how insanely fast some generator builds make the game go.
You know what, fine....just give the killer a funny little perk that, when you hook a survivor they go directly second stage, why not. What could go wrong...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771634#Comment_3771634
Pretty much. Yeah, why shouldn't a mistake be punished?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771636#Comment_3771636
EXACTLY. It's just a big boost for smart survivors.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771643#Comment_3771643
Yep.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771648#Comment_3771648
Exactly: make Kindred basekit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771673#Comment_3771673
I don't know if it's a joke or not, but unironically this would actually kill camping.
If your chasing someone while already atleast half way across the map and don't have the mobility of Billy on a open map, how the hell is that more effective than continuing the chase? We won't deny sometimes it's more effective but many times it's not if the survivors have brain cells.
There currently is rewards. First is some perks only activate on fresh hooks. Second is you become better at pressuring multiple survivors. (You never said rewards you want)
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3772088#Comment_3772088
Cause its just 3 buffs not alot compared to survivors
Outta curiosity, does quality of the buffs matter or is it really just numbers?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771996#Comment_3771996
At this point in the game, the killer needs no shortcuts at all.
right.. i don't agree.
As an aside, there's no punishing genrushing, if the survivors are bringing the tools to do that then they're just getting that much repair done. I'm not blind to toolboxes being unbalanced with a genrush build,
yes there is. it is called camping. typically when survivor rush generators, your left as killer with 3 gen with 1 guy on the hook.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771997#Comment_3771997
That's cause the Killer needs to be spreading pressure by quickly and efficiently hunting survivors down. Players are opting to camp more because many are straight up refusing to learn how to play any other way.
No, it is because generator defence perks keep getting nerfed which is punishing the killer for spreading pressure. I explained this already. It like stocks.
You have Tunneling stocks, Slugging stocks, Camping stocks, and Leave hook pressure stocks. The generator nerf are pushing leave hook pressure stocks down and increasing Camping stocks up.
Yet those who've never needed to rely on those gen defence perks are still fine and dandy. Since there's obviously a way to play effectively without camping or relying on stacking slowdown, what is the excuse then? They obviously do not want to learn the other way.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771875#Comment_3771875
As an aside, you can win by going for aggressive chasing as long as you're actually good at it
by good at it, you mean killer has to play completely flawless with 0 mistakes and survivor can fail almost every single chase as quickly as possible while still just completing all generators anyway. The survivor can still easily hook-trade and all generator will be done.
You need to be spreading pressure for gen defence perks to do all that much.
The generator defence perk don't do enough towards spreading pressure. Camping does more then the gen perks. that is why player are opting to camp more because it is more efficient way to punish gen-rushing. This is also a way for killer to punish survivor misplays at chases in early stages of the game. The dev have this backwards. killer is punishing survivor. not survivor punishing killer. the survivor is the one failing chases.
The more imbalanced the base game is, the more killer will use cheesy shortcuts such as Tunneling and Camping.
by good at it, you mean killer has to play completely flawless with 0 mistakes and survivor can fail almost every single chase as quickly as possible while still just completing all generators anyway. The survivor can still easily hook-trade and all generator will be done.
If survivors are making that many mistakes then they're going to be dying unless the killer makes a grievous mistake or two.
The generator defence perk don't do enough towards spreading pressure. Camping does more then the gen perks. that is why player are opting to camp more because it is more efficient way to punish gen-rushing. This is also a way for killer to punish survivor misplays at chases in early stages of the game. The dev have this backwards. killer is punishing survivor. not survivor punishing killer. the survivor is the one failing chases.
That's cause the Killer needs to be spreading pressure by quickly and efficiently hunting survivors down. Players are opting to camp more because many are straight up refusing to learn how to play any other way.
The more imbalanced the base game is, the more killer will use cheesy shortcuts such as Tunneling and Camping.
Well this is just our opinion here but we don't think anything short of extremely buffing killers to the point of being broken will stop a majority from looking for cheesy shortcuts. We got a question: What all of the game is unbalanced to you?
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771652#Comment_3771652
I mean the issue is I've recorded games where I crawled under hook and the Killer still would refuse to hook*, as they stalked my slugged body as I slowly reached under the hook. The problem is one of two issues. A: Make clearly intentional bleedouts a bannable offense, or B: Make Survivors be able to speed up bleedout death or remove DC penalty once some time is reached like 3-AFK crows on a slug.
*Sometimes refusing to hook at all, sometimes waiting for 3m59s to be extra spiteful in a match where we had an AFK from the start known to the Killer.
As we've said, those that would now can cause there's not going to be dead zones. This isn't going to stop ******s from doing what they do.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771601#Comment_3771601
Noy every p100 is part of bully squad but all members of bully squad is p100
..... factual false
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So, if you're the last one alive with no chance for hatch or doors, would you rather be slugged or hooked? With the change people who would hook you can now actually do so since there won't be dead zones.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771559#Comment_3771559
Camping is still often mathematically better that not though. Think of it this way.
If you don't camp, you have
- 1 survivor on the hook, 3 survivors on gens.
- You start looking where to go next.
- Probably around the time you find out where the next survivor roughly is, a survivor is leaving a gen, now you have, 1 survivor on hook, 1 going to the hook. 2 on gens. Lets say this process takes around 20 seconds to get to (about 20 seconds, to get to the middle of the map from the edge accounting for having to pick the survivor up and hook them)
- Another say, 5 seconds later you find your target and get them off the gen, now you have 1 survivor on hook, 1 going for save, 1 on gens, and 1 being chased.
- Probably another 5 seconds later, the survivor on hook gets saved.
- Another 16 seconds later, that survivor is healed.
- Another 10 seconds later, both of those survivors are on a gen.
- And around now you probably get the down from your chase.
- How much gen time elapsed?
For 20 seconds, you have 3 survivors on a gen = 60 seconds
For 5 seconds, you have 2 survivors on a gen = 10 seconds
for 29 seconds, you have 1 survivor on a gen = 29 seconds
this is a total of 60 + 10 + 29 = 99 seconds of gen progress, a little more than 1 gen.
Now what if you camp?
- 1 survivor on hook, 3 survivors on gens.
- You start camping
- This probably lasts around 20 seconds as before, then the survivors start to wonder
- Now the question is, are they an organized team or not? More often than not, they are NOT an organized team, but lets assume the OPTIMAL scenario in most games?
- So, 1 survivor starts going for save, you have 1 survivor on hook, 1 going for the save, and 2 on gens.
- After about 10 seconds or so, the survivor going for the save realizes you are camping.
- Maybe they poke you, or emote you to "come here" but overall they probably goof off for 15 seconds or so, before they realize you aren't budging.
- At this point, often times multiple survivors will now get off the gens to come for a save because multiple is needed to not trade. But again, maybe they just have the 1 guy guy go back on gens, so now you have 3 survivors on gens
- The guy on hook has now been on hook for 45 seconds. You only need another 15 to hit second stage. Which if you are smart, is what you are looking for, then you go interrupt them.
- So now you have a 2nd stage hook, similar to before, but just on the same survivor and how much gen time has elapsed?
For 20 seconds you have 3 survivors on a gen = 60 seconds
For 10 seconds you have 2 survivors on a gen = 20 seconds
For 15 seconds you have 2 survivors on a gen = 15 seconds
For 15 seconds you have 3 survivors on a gen = 45 seconds
That is 60 + 20 + 15 + 45 = 140 seconds on a gen, about 40 seconds more than the above.
Well, what do you get for it? Well the reality is, that first chase typically lasts 3 gens anyway. And if it doesn't the survivor getting chased is bad, or the survivors doing gens are bad. So it often makes sense to do this because during the scuffle to find the next gen, the survivors aren't doing anything. Additionally, this is assuming that survivors play OPTIMALLY. Which you know they don't the vast majority of the time.
Secondly, what you get is still 2 hook stages, the difference though is that if you camp, the 2nd stage is on a single survivor, instead of 2 different survivors. This is far more powerful, because now survivors have to spend even MORE time either protecting said survivor, and body blocking them. That survivor needs to spend more time trying to hide, or they risk being eliminated completely.
If you get down to 3 survivors and there are 2 gens left, it is often a win for a killer at that point, because survivors can't keep up unless the killer makes a big mistake. If there is 1 gen left, its possible for them to come back if you make small mistakes.
All in all, camping is often more effective than not, because the vast majority of the time, the survivors will not play optimally. And even when they do, it opens them up for a quick tunnel into a long drawn out 1v3.
Mathematics has rarely worked with us when it comes to human factors.
The main problem we see with that thinking is that there are always to many factors in a trial for clean numbers. Perks, map, and killer all add or subtract time. Let's take your examples and put GF in and assume the survivor he found is 99 and unaware the killer is near. The expected happens and now said time table is out of order.
We're in disagreement as if the survivors are effective then camping will only meagerly reward the killer at best (though we don't deny most survivors don't play optimal they only need to play smart to be effective).
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3771574#Comment_3771574
Mostly of them are p100 and if killer see p100 he can dodge but now nothing will stop them bullying festival
A p100 is effectively a lvled up skin. A bully could simply have a p0 character and play with that to try and bully. Please refer to Mandy above.
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@Backmon said:
Cause this another huge buff for cheaters and bully squads. At least before they need to hide they p100 character and if its only 1 p100 you know who should get tunneled first. Anyway another survivor sided update from survivor sided development. I did not even surprise why its only survivors perks getting buffed and camping became much harder (for securing second stage and not like hard camping).
You realize a bully squad could be consisted of 4 p0 survivors correct?
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@Leonardo1ita said:
I don't think it's gonna be good:
Killers still have NO default incentives to leave hooks and not tunnel or camp.
So it's STILL not gonna solve the fact that tunneling a person in 3v1 ASAP is always the best play.
Now perhaps even more the best play, considering survivors can just finish the gens and save last second.
Killers actually do have an incentive to leave the hook. To slowdown the other 3 survivors who are working on the gens rapidly and unimpeded.
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We agree, a perk shop would be nice with the sheer amount there are. Maybe keep the shrine as like "this is on discount".
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Not sure about downs but I usually get many more hits than my partner so think I'm atleast keeping my due.
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We'd say test it first. While we can imagine the insufferable usual picks becoming even worse since there's more for each side, it could be much better than the worse case scenario.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770146#Comment_3770146
T-Virus should work like Pig trap gain timer when fully infected you die or like Uroboros gain hindered and instadown
While thematically we'd agree, game wise that'd be a no for us. We ask why? He's not in any sort of desperate need for change in a balance sense and unlike Freddy, he's more enjoyable to play as (atleast our opinion)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770260#Comment_3770260
i think opposite. equally skilled means that your m1 is nearly useless and you only get power hits because survivor makes little to no mistakes at loops/have strong map knowledge. when your getting m1 hits a lot, it is because your opponent is significantly worse than you as killer in the chase. when this is not the case, it is because loop is unsafe/fair for killer to mindgame or the map is giant dead-zone where everything is already broken. At that point, you don't really need your ability….
Shrug to each their own experience.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770259#Comment_3770259
I'm not really seeing how your quotes disprove anything I said, in fact they highlight what I'm talking about, so thanks for making my point for me. I said that everyone's opinion on the mode is just as valid as everyone else's, mine included. The only stance I took was saying that slugging does happen and to say that people don't play competitively in this mode is not accurate from what I've seen.
Accelerates does not mean unobtainable. You do get rift fragments via normal matches.
The tome rift fragments are literally unobtainable if you do not do the tome. If you want quick progress to get the cosmetics down the line in the rift, you are incentivized to do the event tome. If you don't, that can lead to FOMO. Either you're averaging 1.5 fragments per match without the tome, or you can get more 50 by doing challenges on top of 1.5 per match. I don't really know what you're not understanding there.
So my initial criticism about a post that DOES dismiss the feelings of OP is somehow spinning a narrative? What?? I would lay off the buzzwords for a while until you actually know what they mean or at least have the integrity to apply them where they are actually applicable.
Try reading what we typed, actually reading not glancing, not skimming, but reading, and try again.
So my initial criticism about a post that DOES dismiss the feelings of OP is somehow spinning a narrative? What?? I would lay off the buzzwords for a while until you actually know what they mean or at least have the integrity to apply them where they are actually applicable.
Frankly , yes your tryin. Look at what they typed then your own post. We recommend knowing what you type before calling us out on not knowing what words mean.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770171#Comment_3770171
i am saying vs equally skilled survivor that seldom gets hit by m1 and only gets hit by whip, 3 hits for first chase is 3 gens done. subsequent uses of vaccine means that you can lose all 5 gens by the time vaccines are depleted vs efficient team.
When i play soloq, most of my games vs nemesis is nemesis lose 3 gens before vaccines are depleted at min. sometimes it is 4 gens. it depends on how good my soloq team is. the amount of extra exhaustion effect and distance these vaccines give is literally stronger then any anti-tunnel perk that survivors have. it beats decisive strike and beats dead hard. only old dead hard that could be used infinity amount of times was superior.
To this day, I still question whether his Vaccines or Xeno turret is worse drawback. from what I see, Xeno turrets are better for weaker survivor players because their repetitive and consistent value holds more average weight. Nemesis Vaccines scale with survivor skill-level. at low-level to medium levels, a second chance is not as valuable because player make so many mistakes in chase that killer can punch through all second chances with minimal generator loss. At higher levels of play, nemesis vaccine is complete crushing blow because each second chance is min-maxed so well with time efficiency on generators that little no hope to coming back as nemesis when it is used properly.
We're not sure whether to be jealous or not as most of our nemis are either good or [insert basic insult] doing the usual 4 gen stall and tunnel build. We're still in disagreement here as equally skilled would mean you'd get as often a chance to m1 as whip assuming nemi has working programming. And even that would still be 3 hits to 2 gens done at worst which is typical for most killers. Not taking into account of what happens during the chase either such as whip hit and leave, whip chase into others whip others back on first, etc. Admittedly maps also factor into times and we've realized we've neglected that as we're typing but thats a side tangent of our sleep addled brains.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770170#Comment_3770170
Not really sure what your first sentence is supposed to imply. The whole point of a discussion is to discuss the topic. 🤨
Your experience is only one data point of the entire playerbase. Your opinion on the mode is just as valid as mine and as OP's, but no one's is the entire story. Just because you feel safe saying your subjective statistic is an accurate number does not make it so.
The tome accelerates the progress of the rift because it provides rift fragments. You can only get those in the event mode. So no, you're wrong there.
If you're trying to construct narratives instead of trying to have a discussion, that says a lot.
Your experience is only one data point of the entire playerbase. Your opinion on the mode is just as valid as mine and as OP's, but no one's is the entire story. Just because you feel safe saying your subjective statistic is an accurate number does not make it so.
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769873#Comment_3769873
If the 10 games you played on survivor were from the first day of the event, you're proving my point. I played 10 games yesterday, and all 10 had slugging killers at 3 survivors left. Killers have learned either through common sense or content creators that slugging will help achieve 8ks. A strategy that came about since the event went live.
I agree with you that 2v8 is a subjective experience, which was the whole point of my post. What's not subjective is actual data points and trends from the beginning of the event to now.
"I agree with you that 2v8 is a subjective experience, which was the whole point of my post. What's not subjective is actual data points and trends from the beginning of the event to now."
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767941#Comment_3767941
The audacity of this post lol.
Fun is subjective, an opinion. To say this mode is fun in such a matter-of-fact manner while having the gall to tell OP that their opinion on the mode is no good, AND THEN saying that they should find enjoyment out of being happy for YOU because you're having fun? I mean come on lol.
Also to say that the mode isn't competitive while ignoring the surplus of killers who've now learned to slug at 3 survivors remaining to prevent hatches from spawning so completely disingenuous about the state of 2v8 it's unreal.
"Also to say that the mode isn't competitive while ignoring the surplus of killers who've now learned to slug at 3 survivors remaining to prevent hatches from spawning so completely disingenuous about the state of 2v8 it's unreal."
Soooo…what facts are there? One person claims this. One claims that. Does it mean there is a slugfest paradise going on or is it more calls in the fog? Also ignores how they explain that 2v8 shows "how overpowered killers are, especially if there are two running around."
The tome accelerates the progress of the rift because it provides rift fragments. You can only get those in the event mode. So no, you're wrong there.
Accelerates does not mean unobtainable. You do get rift fragments via normal matches. If you don't believe us then maybe this?:
If you're trying to construct narratives instead of trying to have a discussion, that says a lot.
So from what we've seen it started with:
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/421880/2v8-points-out-a-glaring-issue
I guess some people cant enjoy things?
If you dont like the mode, then dont play it. All I can say is, that this mode is incredibly fun to play as because its a lot less competetive and a lot more chaotic.
Playing killer with a friend is the most fun ive had in dbd in a very long time.
Maybe you can find joy in being happy for people that do have fun?
followed by you bending that into a this:
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767941#Comment_3767941
The audacity of this post lol.
Fun is subjective, an opinion. To say this mode is fun in such a matter-of-fact manner while having the gall to tell OP that their opinion on the mode is no good, AND THEN saying that they should find enjoyment out of being happy for YOU because you're having fun? I mean come on lol.
Also to say that the mode isn't competitive while ignoring the surplus of killers who've now learned to slug at 3 survivors remaining to prevent hatches from spawning so completely disingenuous about the state of 2v8 it's unreal.
and further down the rabbit hole we go.
Seems like your trying to twist a narrative to us (maybe the incorrect word, but far as we know it fits). radiantHero finds the mode fun and stated why they do and suggested to try and be empathetic (showing an ability to understand and share the feelings of another: in this particular case the positive ones) about the ones who enjoy it. You then state that they told the OP that their opinion is no good (we dont see anything there on that) and told them to be happy for them. Now, if thats not a bend and twist we don't know what is.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770152#Comment_3770152
losing 3 gens for 1 chase is terrible. it doesn't matter that you get a power boost. when you have 2 hooks and survivor have 4 gens done because of your power, it is not good.
to put into perceptive, His vaccine is like stacking dead hard in the first chase. in theory, you can have health-state, a vaccine and dead hard in 2nd chase. you almost lose to just shift-w…… for how many stacking exhaustion speed boosts that is.
At that point thats a player problem…we're nowhere near the best (especially since we've become rusty) but we can still get hits in via whip and fist (if your going for whip only there might be the problem) fast enough that we've gotten more than that for 3 gens in normal matches. Someone whos better than us will be flaying survivors (or enough pallets to fill the meat plant) with his whip.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770035#Comment_3770035
There's feeling happy for the people that enjoy the mode, but how about feeling sorry for the people that don't? What about them? Is their discontent invalid because it's not mindless positivity? You mention you're all against FOMO. What about the people that like FOMO? Shouldn't you feel happy for them and instead of not liking FOMO, be happy for the other people that like it?
The OP did say that: "It just shows how overpowered killers are, especially if there are two running around. All it is now is a killer paradise slugfest. Wish we didn't have an event tome around it, that is unfortunate." The OP does not like the mode because they view the killer strategies as boring and wish they didn't have a tome that incentivizes them to play said mode. The mode gives you progress into the current rift, bloodpoints, and decent cosmetic charms and backgrounds, which is what the OP wants. Unfortunately, these are tied to the mode. You cannot get these any other way. The OP wishes there wasn't a tome around the event so they wouldn't feel like they would be missing out on rewards and cosmetics you cannot get otherwise. You don't need word for word verbatim from the OP to understand that's what they're saying.
Sometimes people don't have any ideas on how to fix a problem. Sometimes all it takes to start a good discussion is to let people know that you are dissatisfied with something. Relegating all complaints to "needless complaining" does not help facilitate improvement. This is customer relations 101. That's not to say all complaints have 100% merit, but throwing them all in the trash because they don't have a 5 paragraph essay on what they'd do to fix the problem is also not the correct solution.
My my, you just feeling argumentative ain't cha.
The OP does not like the mode because they view the killer strategies as boring and wish they didn't have a tome that incentivizes them to play said mode.
From what we see they're claiming that the mode is a "killer paradise slugfest", which we from our experience is untrue and from other people saying it's not (via here on the forums and our own discord groups), we feel safe saying that it's not a slugfest at least more than 60+% or so. They're defiantly not talking about "the killer strategies" (emphasis on the plural strategies, at best they hate slugging) they're saying (or we'd like to say "needless complaining") how 2v8 shows "how overpowered killers are, especially if there are two running around."
The mode gives you progress into the current rift, bloodpoints, and decent cosmetic charms and backgrounds, which is what the OP wants. Unfortunately, these are tied to the mode. You cannot get these any other way. The OP wishes there wasn't a tome around the event so they wouldn't feel like they would be missing out on rewards and cosmetics you cannot get otherwise.
Yet aside from the cosmetics (which are charms and backgrounds) everything can be gotten via normal trials. But that aside tell us, why should something that comes tied with a new mode be gotten another way? Supose they could have just released the new mode on its own nothin attached, but then no one has anything to work towards there'd be no incentive to try it in a meaningful capacity.
You don't need word for word verbatim from the OP to understand that's what they're saying.
Kinda do, otherwise people like us will twist and bend anything they say to fit any narrative~
Sometimes people don't have any ideas on how to fix a problem. Sometimes all it takes to start a good discussion is to let people know that you are dissatisfied with something. Relegating all complaints to "needless complaining" does not help facilitate improvement.
If the complaint does not properly (or remotely) explain why they are dissatisfied with something, then how is anyone to help improve it? Is everyone here going to have to ask "why" until we get something workable? ATM the original post only says (to us) that they hate the "slugfest", which we haven't seen and probably the only way to help that would be to add basekit unbreakable for the mode (admittedly it wouldn't hurt with insta cages), and how theres a tome attached to the gamemode, which if they released a new mode, why not attach a tome to it? To solve this we guess don't make new tomes for new modes. Tada, improved and solved unless someone comes up with something better.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770040#Comment_3770040
4 vaccines +4 base is 8 extra hits. that's atrocious early game for nemesis.
Assuming we're understanding what you said correctly, yes its a hard start for a nemi but he also gots help for infecting and for a decent power trade off so we find it fair enough.
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770040#Comment_3770040
Its a still punish Nemesis for using his power and you can down much faster if forget about m2 exist (and thats not good). When other killer that i mentioned have something more for them. Bubba can instadown with forgiving cooldown (after buff). Demo can teleport and have a good addons. Pyramid Head can snipe through walls and Xeno having map control, more mindgame potential and smaller terror radius with very powerful addons. Nemesis is just weak "i give survivor 3d health state killer" with extremly punishable and unrewarding m2 attack, useless zombie and mediocre addons. Also t-virus do absolute nothing (unlike uroboros)
It "punishes" temporarily and "rewards" later depending on how often you can hit with your whips. If you can't hit with your whip then yes, being an m1 is faster, if you can then even with a "third health state" (we never liked how thats worded) your gonna gets hits and downs faster and through many obstacles. As we pointed out each of those also have cons that Nemesis doesn't have (technically nemi does have some map control via zombies…or does that count as stall to the masses?). We also pointed out the pros of Nemi that none of the above have. The T-virus makes it so his whip and zombies hurt.
We've gone over how strength is subjective before in a different thread, we're not gonna repeat ourselves.
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Since both sides are saying that the other is OP, then obviously it's balanced 😃
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@Backmon said:
Seriously, from all killers Nemesis M2 the most unrewarding and weak special attack. Deal with infinite 3d health state and speed boost remove all fun from this killer. Its more winnable just doing m1 the entire game and forget about m2 existance (and its not okay if by not using your power you have more chance to win). And if you say pallet shred then its just not worth it. The best pallet shred in the game have Bubba and Demo and their power does not punish them or give advantage for survivors. For dealing survivors on pallet loop Nemesis being outplayed by Xeno or Pyramid Head who can deal with loops a lot easy. This 3d health state mechanic is outdated and should gone when Nemesis being touched again.
Because his whip can break pallets extremely quick at a distance and still move and look around, he can hit and injure infected survivors over many things (including aforementioned pallets) at a distance, makes you vulnerable to zombies, and can be dragged. All with a relatively short wind up and cd making it less punishing to miss.
Bubba is punished if he hits anything other than a pallet or survivers via tantrum and technically needs to recharge tokens for maximum run distance, which doesn't go past obstacles bar point blank windows. Demo goes in a straight line, depending on where you miss it can be little to heavily punished, and he also doesn't hit over objects. Xeno can be taken out of his power while PH has a decent CD on using his power meaning he can't afford to miss or risks wasting tons of time. None of these ones have help as well.
We feel it's perfectly fine that survivors need infected first before he can hurt them with the whip. Especially since it's not infinite, survivors only have 4/3 vaccines.
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Survivors: We know everyone has something they hate in the game but to those who stick it out and try to play it out till the end no matter what, you guys are heroes. We love how you all actually let us have a match from both sides.
Killers: We appreciate those hidden gems who experiment with builds and remember that there are other things that you can do besides tunnel with slowdown. You guys keep us on our toes as survivor and give inspiration as killer.
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@vol4r said:
Annoying to go against. Really can't to much but predrop pallets, which doesn't matter for him with how easy it is to break them. Also, how 8 pallets on coldwind or haddonfield is gonna let surviviors have a decent chase against him?
While we know you won't bother changing your mind no matter what we'll give it a crack
Annoying to go against: Subjective just like Billy is annoying to go against for us.
Really can't to much but predrop pallets, which doesn't matter for him with how easy it is to break them: You have EMPs across the map which survivors can use to effectively turn him into an M1 killer if used smart. Meaning survivors can loop him, meaning you can do more than predrop pallets, and probably should since you'll run outta pallets fast. He only has super mode when he teleports which can be repeatedly denied by survivors. We haven't seen a hux since the update, but nothing in the notes we can find changed this part.
Also, how 8 pallets on coldwind or haddonfield is gonna let surviviors have a decent chase against him?: Would you have any more of a decent chance against literally anyone else with 8 pallets between 4 ppl? As people said above, thats more a map issue.
Summary: Nothings really changed about him except making it slightly better to play as him. Q the denials
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@SkeletonDance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766389#Comment_3766389
Bot killers are not really that good though, very easy to loop and they often randomly swings in air
Never tried the bot killer, so we're just going down the rabbit hole and assume they're upgraded as all hell and has auto lock~
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@SkeletonDance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766379#Comment_3766379
Probably yeah. Just like a trapper in bot tutorial
Bot nurse with infinite wall hacks...we can't tell wether to be excited or dreading
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....so do these bots get infinite wall hacks too?
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@menacing_goose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765913#Comment_3765913
how is it being reckless though not every map is the game where you can just drop anything without a care in the world without having to worry about running out of resources to loop trying to save resources while buying time for gens shouldn’t be something you get punished forReckless as in intentionally greeding when you know he can do that or pre dropping while he's a foot away knowing he can do it. You don't loop him the same way you loop trapper. You don't drop everything, you drop things based on whatever is best at the time against that killer. Buying time doesn't mean just looping you realize right?
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... isn't it the point of the mage hand to punish being reckless with pallets? He also can't spam the hand so he has to make it count, or survivors can greed another loop.
The haste seemed enough for us last we tried and one of the points of the dispelling sphere is to dispell the magic items survivors can get (of which each can have 2, one item even sees the sphere).
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764272#Comment_3764272
Boon is unlimited, item is not, and killers never have any capability to control where survivor dies or chase, survivors have complete control to where items drop
I don't understand why peoples are so bad at comparison
Because people only see what they want to see
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Because people lobby shop
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One tries to be a lawnmower. The other is one.
The first one we dislike because compared to the other 1 shot killers, he's a bit of bull in our opinion.
The second one is more due to history.
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- Weak and fun. Our entertainment is the most important thing in a game (to us atleast).
- Are we talking bout original forever freddy? If so then give us freddy. Otherwise we'll take merchant.
- Seems the same to us soooo either? If forced then p100s, least its possible to get nice ones.
- Nurse.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763115#Comment_3763115
Hmm, you bring up a fair point with that second one, I hadn't considered hook suicides.
That might be the spanner in the works that stops it from being viable until such time as hook suicides are addressed, however that ends up happening- if at all.
Though, equally, if you have someone out of the match that quickly, you kinda don't need slowdown that much. A 3v1 would be very difficult to win against even perkless killers unless they're really bad, so maybe that wouldn't be such a huge problem?
We're not talking about necessary but how the players feel. We agree that you don't particularly need slowdown but as said, gonna feel cheated if you lost it due to a tantrum. But again, these are just minor things we're worried about if this happens.
And too be fair, the 3 of us have very nearly gotten 5 gens as a swf many times in those situations, the killer doesn't need to be bad, the survivors just have to be better.
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We're kinda mixed feelings on this as while we'd like something like this, especially if things got rebalanced, we got some minor worries.
First worry is the players themselves. The sheer riot it would cause, while hilarious and most likely deserved, may actually cause an exodus of players or cause more to double up on "scummy" (unfun) tactics such as 4 man slugs (we don't have the highest opinion on the players so this maybe paranoia) in a form of "protest". Many make empty threats about this but we are genuinely worried if something major like this tips that scale to actually do this.
Then there's the whole swinging to death on first hook survivors, which would suck to have your one regression gone because of that. We're less empathetic to the stacking killers but this is a realistic problem. Having your perk gone because someone is a child isn't going to feel good.
Last is some edge cases. Having pop gone when we'd actually need it in a close match but then having it gone because that last hook was a death hook would also be something.
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Honestly we'd like to see the end timer speed up per standing survivor in the exit gate. 4 survivors causes it to rapidly run down hehehe
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762432#Comment_3762432
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762573#Comment_3762573
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762614#Comment_3762614
I'll look at your comments in more detail tomorrow, but the reason why I say Legion is a worse Plague is 90% of Legion's power is to bring survivors from healthy to injured. Legion and Plague achieve it in different ways but the outcome is ultimately the same. Vile Purge and Infection are far more effective and efficient than Feral Frenzy. It's not even close. In addition, Plague has Corrupt Purge, so she doesn't have to play like a M1 killer, like Legion does.
We'd say that's 1/3 of legions power with the other parts being stall and info and plague is more pure damage. With plague it's slower but inevitable, while legion you can easily avoid but it's just as likely to be instant and spontaneous against the whole party. Plague has less direct control than legion but gets a better part in corrupt purge. Apologies if we're repeating the same points.
As an aside, if plague uses her pools up, she has to wait until survivors cleanse before she can get it again, making her an m1 killer until then.
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Voting up
Hopefully we see something come of this soon
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They both have their own ways.
Plague:
- Needs to tag either a survivor directly or interactable that needs then to be interacted with to leave survivors broken and infectious.
- Infecting survivors is not instant even if tagged directly.
- Can't track survivors as easy without an add on compared to legion
- Survivors either heal and give her more power pools or can stay injured. Nothing is forced.
- Has a ranged attack (here for completions sake)
Legion :
- Needs to tag a survivor and learns the location of nearby survivors via killer instinct (aka no ways to hide) until frenzy ends.
- Does not break survivors but forces them to mend or fall.
- Can't tag survivors as easy as plague.
- Is instant as soon as you hit but no range
- Much better tracking and it's base kit. No add on needed.
- Inherent slowdown via mend.
Seems similar but different just like a few other killers to us.
Edit: Accidentally hit post button early