Comments

• Sooo whats stopping an attentive killer from looking for the closest hook, memorizing it, keeping an eye on the hud, and returning?

  In the mean time, no.

  in Every killer is a return-to-hook-Andy during this portion of the event Comment by Rulebreaker June 25, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  Who decides what's the best? You? Us? Firellius? The devs? Cause let us tell you, EVERYONE has a different definition of that. 

  What good is not subjective. You can make the argument that technician is better than sprint burst. Just because its murky does not mean that it is all arguable so stop trying to say it is.

  If you want to argue against the convention and say that a perk seen as worse is good then you need to argue to back it up rather than falling back on saying it's subjective. I have made many arguments that aura perks are just less effective than regression perks for example even if that is not actually against the convention and therefore you can surmise my reasons if you know what people's general opinions on regression perks are.

  You keep trying to debate your opinions and views as facts. We are explaining how your word alone is NOT fact and that the few facts you have given have counter points.

  If I say something that is conventionally seen as basic dbd knowledge such as sprint burst is an S tier perk if you believe it is not (which their is nothing to say you don't) then you need to say why.

  That's why some opinions I don't need to justify you need to say why it's wrong.

  The ones I have had to justify such as that aura perks are generally not strong perks and that gen regression/blocking perks are better (even though this is generally thought to be true) I have had to prove, referencing tier lists of generally respected players (such as otzdarva's) Individually explaining their weaknesses (such as with floods of rage) or in the case of distortion (i have made many arguments as to why it should be nerfed)

  Then you say "it's just your opinion bro"

  Yes its been backed up or is something so obvious such as

  Sprint burst is a good perk

  or

  Regression perks (by and large) are the best killer perks. 

  That saying "that just your opinion" to a statement as blanketly accepted as that just makes you look like you have nothing to argue or don't understand dbd which I doubt is the case as you have played the game since 2017 but you may just be bad what do I know if I did not show your achievements that's what I would assume.

  Its why stuff like this

  You keep trying to debate your opinions and views as facts. We are explaining how your word alone is NOT fact and that the few facts you have given have counter points.

  In the face of something like

  Sprint burst is a good perk

  Is mental. You are either bad or to quote yourself

  Your missing or ignoring the point on purpose now aint cha?

  So we're back again to the players being the issue. Since you claim that "they will play like scumbags" then whether or not they see an aura they wouldn't leave since they'll do the "tunnel out the player/camp and force stages on the players he has the easiest access to by ping-ponging between". 

  The players aren't the issue because you cant change a player base as easy as a perk but you know what my view on the killer playerbase is I've said what I think a lot of them want out of the game and referenced the anecdotal evidence as to why pointing to the killer and survivor content creators as examples because there are no real good things to reference for this stuff.

  and they will in my view generally be more willing to compromise on playing "nicely" to win so if BBQ for example doesn't go off when someone's hooked they will camp.

  Yes there are other reasons it may not go off or they may be not running BBQ another perk can be used as the example the point is taking the aura away and forcing them to take a risk. It is not going to happen so it no its not necessarily true that the players that play in a specific way would all do it anyway. Its why the perk encourages it.

  And here we go again. Who defines weak? Weak is in the eyes of the beholder (kinda sad that wasnt the dnd killer) and a handful aren't weak to us. 

  Argue gearhead or Weave Attunement is better than an actual good perk then. You are the one with the maverick opinion here you and im just ending part here because i would just being going over the start of this reply all over again.

  And again, thats your views and thats fine. Our views on that specifically is that some perks hindering others is fine. Considering we already have some perks that disable others and some POWERS that disable perks, we don't feel like it'll decrease all that much more. Especially considering theres a lack of variety anyways

  Their is nowhere to go with this paragraph i think this is just somewhere we need to agree to disagree.

  For a literal crutch we have seen sticks, one made of LEGO (which was pretty cool honestly) and one had a sword in it. Like we all said everything can be a crutch, and if some people really do use it as a crutch does that make it a crutch for everyone else? The answer we're seeing from you is yes. If so, so be it, but then every perk is a crutch then as they hold players up (we can't remember the last time we saw a good perkless player in the wild).

  Also sorry if the crutches thing came off a rude i just kinda assumed you may not be English or live in an English-speaking country, which despite my awful grammer. I do putting me at an advantage if you don't. Because i don't know what crutch is translated in any European language I should not assume anyone else knows the actual meaning

  and therefore you may only know the term from gaming. Also if you don't mind me asking what's up with the we thing?

  What good is not subjective.

  {[(Ohh we're so going to end up derailing the topic]})

  And how is it not subjective? Lets again look at this: "A friend of ours never kept in mind whenever he got SB in chaos mode cause he never ran it, was it still good on him?" The implied answer is no, to him Sprint Burst is not good because he doesn't run it effectively.

  Then we get to: "When people 99 SB against us, we keep going and ask "ok, now what you got?" as they proceed to scramble for something once they run out of resources." These survivors used it "effectively" but still ultimately did near nil so we don't think its as good as claimed.

  If you want to argue against the convention and say that a perk seen as worse is good then you need to argue to back it up rather than falling back on saying it's subjective. I have made many arguments that aura perks are just less effective than regression perks for example even if that is not actually against the convention and therefore you can surmise my reasons if you know what people's general opinions on regression perks are.

  This goes both ways: "Distortion existence in its current state makes the game worse for the people who are not using it and for killer using the perks in counters furthering the gap between the detection perks and the top perks its existence is not justifiable within this context." Distortion shuts down aura reading temporarily, it of itself is not making the game worse for us if we don't use it.

  If I say something that is conventionally seen as basic dbd knowledge such as sprint burst is an S tier perk if you believe it is not (which their is nothing to say you don't) then you need to say why.

  Have you said why its an good perk? (in honesty we have yet to see an in depth look from anyone) We can make counter augments and say why we don't think its as good as people claim but all we've seen is "This is good because". We can list off all the pros and cons against SB and that would be why we see it as not a great perk, but tell us, would that change someone elses mind (not specifically you, but in general)? Maybe yes maybe no. What a person thinks of as "good" is influenced by their own beliefs and feelings. Which is the definition of subjective unsurprisingly.

  Argue gearhead or Weave Attunement is better than an actual good perk then. You are the one with the maverick opinion here you and im just ending part here because i would just being going over the start of this reply all over again.

  -[Lumping this here because of laziness]-

  You keep trying to debate your opinions and views as facts. We are explaining how your word alone is NOT fact and that the few facts you have given have counter points.

  In the face of something like

  Sprint burst is a good perk

  Do we really need to explain how they work cause last time we tried this in your other thread you said it won't work. Do we deep explain how by hitting a survivor, it begins to chew through Distortion stacks of those working on gens? Or how anyone within Weave attunement's effect will start burning tokens. Also we're pretty sure that this specific paragraph of train of thought came from listing the ways distortion gets chewed up and aura perks still work without running 2+.

  The players aren't the issue because you cant change a player base as easy as a perk but you know what my view on the killer playerbase is I've said what I think a lot of them want out of the game and referenced the anecdotal evidence as to why pointing to the killer and survivor content creators as examples because there are no real good things to reference for this stuff.

  Just because 1 thing is easier to change doesn't mean it was the problem. Lets put it this way: Would you rather treat the symptoms or the disease. One is easy but not healthy in the long run, the other is not easy but better in the long term. Thats what we see it boiling down to. If you treat the symptoms (in this case Distortion) the disease will continue to still be there (the rotten players [almost feeling bad that we keep indirectly lumping the non coward distortion players together.]) and a new symptom pops up.

  Gonna be honest, once we saw the "It's why the biggest killer content creators" we just ignored it. If there really is and important bit of info in there one of us will read it but we generally don't like them due to what we call the "sheeple effect" [People parroting the content creators beliefs and ideas without seeing for themselves]

  Also sorry if the crutches thing came off a rude i just kinda assumed you may not be English or live in an English-speaking country, which despite my awful grammer.

  Believe us when we say you've offended us more with "You don't need this defined for you." than the crutches thing.

  Also: "I do putting me at an advantage if you don't." …..what?

  "Rulebreaker" is shared between the 3 of us. When we say "we" we often times literally mean it opposed to "I" where its that specific one. (Admittedly other times we also like to mess with ppls heads) Also if you really wish to continue this, we ask for either another thread or PM as we do feel bad about derailing this one.

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 25, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746268#Comment_3746268

  Very well. Going by that definition then yes Distortion can become a crutch to specific players. Its admittedly confusing us as your definition implies a case by case basis. For example: "perk by itself makes a specifc players preform disproportionality better than the average player gets out of the perk" means to us that that player is crutching on it. But what of the players using it and still as good as the average player? Its not a crutch to them. Does it still make distoriton a crutch because some overly rely on it while the masses are fine?

  You know what a literal crutch is, the physical thing?

  https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2OZW0CSKGJXM/image.png

  Its something used to hold yourself up If a player would crumble if a perk was taken away from them. It means its a crutch they are leaning on it.

  See though, alot of things are subjective when it comes to whats balanced or not.

  No the best perks are the best perks.

  What's fun is subjective but what's good is not.

  This whole debate it to try and change your subjective opinion with arguments and occasionally certain facts. 

  Yes but there are facts you are taking as opinions.

  Sprint burst is a good perk, both a fact and an opinion. Regression perks (by and large) are the best killer perks. same thing.

  "it's not nice to be forced to play a slower match to accommodate for your teammate who won't take any pressure." These are opinions and the third one in particular implies everyone who runs distortion won't take pressure, which is a subjective opinion and not fact. We know not every distortion user is a coward.

  It's not all but it is a larger proportion than other perk users because the perk leans into in, you can say that's subjective but there is truth in that statement, and as I have said previously its easier to change perks than the players, especially if the perks are enablers.

  For example breakdown is a bad perk but the way it's used to create zones players can't be hooked it I think justifies changes because the correct thing to do is to slug the players out but they usually run no mither. (its a rare occurrence but its also a rare perk and changing perks is easier then changing how players play)

  "fair" and "primary importance"

  You don't need this defined for you. I'm sorry.

  How is Distortion itself causing this and not the player's choice? Is Distortion forcing the killer to camp? No. Is Distortion forcing the survivor to take risks? No. Is Distortion making the safe option, which is doing gens and getting out, the boring option? No

  As i have said many times its easier to change perks than the players, especially if the perks are enablers.

  Swap the word forcing with encouraging and most of these answers are a yes especially within the scenario we concocted.

  If you offer the killer the option to play the game with 1 or 2 less perks (assuming they bring aura perks) being able to be used on 2 people that are running distortion or to tunnel out the player/camp and force stages on the players he has the easiest access to by ping-ponging between then they will play like scumbags. Killers always have its the role that attracts the more competitive players.

  This is very anecdotal my argument that follows its something that has become apparent over time with dbd.

  It's why the biggest killer content creators like Scott Jund, Tru3 and Otzdarva tend to talk quite a bit about balance while the biggest survivors Ayrun, JRM, and Skermz generally don't. The players that only play one role or the other generally have different things they want out of the game and killers are generally more competitive and will play to win.

  I think you need to force killer kicking and screaming away from hooks once someones on it and it's why I want the self-unhook system changed in some way to do it but by not allowing perks to give information away that can only be acted on far from the hook its kinda encourages camping.

  Awakened awareness, Gearhead, No where to hide, Lightborn and blood warden (yes, they in fact can if the survivor is stupid enough), undying (map dependent), and weave attunement are the aura perks that can chew through the 3 tokens very rapidly on their own (some under conditions as mentioned). Then we get into all the add ons for powers which we're not going to list. These things all chew through the initial 3 tokens you get and to get more you usually have to put yourself in the danger zone of a killers tr (some maps make this easier than others).

  If we're going into "put into what you get territory" we're going to end up with a longer list so we're just say all the change did was give a sound que and add a way to gain tokens and thats by being close to the killer (aka potential death in most cases). We're going to ask if you think that seriously broke it.

  Yea but all these perks that deal with distortion in conjunction with eachother are weak (except NTH) and like i said i dont like perks rolling over and disabling other perks anyway. It will make the game less interesting and decrease the variety of perks that get run over a long period of time if this is the direction the game goes in.

  For a literal crutch we have seen sticks, one made of LEGO (which was pretty cool honestly) and one had a sword in it. Like we all said everything can be a crutch, and if some people really do use it as a crutch does that make it a crutch for everyone else? The answer we're seeing from you is yes. If so, so be it, but then every perk is a crutch then as they hold players up (we can't remember the last time we saw a good perkless player in the wild).

  No the best perks are the best perks.

  What's fun is subjective but what's good is not.

  Sprint burst is a good perk, both a fact and an opinion. Regression perks (by and large) are the best killer perks. same thing.

  And we thought you were learning…

  Who decides what's the best? You? Us? Firellius? The devs? Cause let us tell you, EVERYONE has a different definition of that. It. Is. Subjective. What's the best for one person isn't for the other which you really don't seem to get. Saying this or that is good or the best doesn't cut it, especially when you simply SAY that it is and don't back it up. A friend of ours never kept in mind whenever he got SB in chaos mode cause he never ran it, was it still good on him? When people 99 SB against us, we keep going and ask "ok, now what you got?" as they proceed to scramble for something once they run out of resources. And if you go and say something along the lines of "Well they were using it wrong" then what about the cowards using distortion? ohh "Well, they were using it wrong" because they weren't being productive while having a way to stealth aura reading.

  It's not all but it is a larger proportion than other perk users because the perk leans into in, you can say that's subjective but there is truth in that statement, and as I have said previously its easier to change perks than the players, especially if the perks are enablers.

  For example breakdown is a bad perk but the way it's used to create zones players can't be hooked it I think justifies changes because the correct thing to do is to slug the players out but they usually run no mither. (its a rare occurrence but its also a rare perk and changing perks is easier then changing how players play)

  Your missing or ignoring the point on purpose now aint cha? Let us spell it out clear and concise out in the open:

  You keep trying to debate your opinions and views as facts. We are explaining how your word alone is NOT fact and that the few facts you have given have counter points.

  You don't need this defined for you. I'm sorry.

  Then we define your definition of both as: "Anything I say is Fair is fair" and "Whatever I want" respectively. Thats going to go over so well with anyone with a smidgen of free will.

  Swap the word forcing with encouraging and most of these answers are a yes especially within the scenario we concocted.

  Surprisingly the answers are still no. Its not encouraging camping, its not encouraging risks from survivors, and no its not affecting how the safe option is the boring one. If a killer was gonna camp due to distortion then they'd camp if everyone suspected or was paranoid of BBQ (or was just gonna camp from the start anyways but we'll leave that option away). If survivors were gonna take risks they'd do it with or without it. You seem to think that it has some super influence on the majority, we can assure you it doesn't (the majority, the minority we'd be more inclined to agree, but even then its a maybe and no one knows).

  If you offer the killer the option to play the game with 1 or 2 less perks (assuming they bring aura perks) being able to be used on 2 people that are running distortion or to tunnel out the player/camp and force stages on the players he has the easiest access to by ping-ponging between then they will play like scumbags. Killers always have its the role that attracts the more competitive players.

  So we're back again to the players being the issue. Since you claim that "they will play like scumbags" then whether or not they see an aura they wouldn't leave since they'll do the "tunnel out the player/camp and force stages on the players he has the easiest access to by ping-ponging between". Since distortion wouldn't change that it gets a new positive in that those "scumbags" won't be able to ping pong between them and have a harder time tunneling if they lost their target.

  Yea but all these perks that deal with distortion in conjunction with eachother are weak (except NTH) and like i said i dont like perks rolling over and disabling other perks anyway. It will make the game less interesting and decrease the variety of perks that get run over a long period of time if this is the direction the game goes in.

  And here we go again. Who defines weak? Weak is in the eyes of the beholder (kinda sad that wasnt the dnd killer) and a handful aren't weak to us. Gearhead is good on its own for info while Weave attunement, Lightborn, and undying have some conditions but are good with the right set up (the first if survivors have items, second if flashlights or flashbangs are in play, and the third goes with any totem build) [Suppose we should explain that we do not see niche perks as inherently weak for lightborns case not that we think this will be read].

  i said i dont like perks rolling over and disabling other perks anyway. It will make the game less interesting and decrease the variety of perks that get run over a long period of time if this is the direction the game goes in.

  And again, thats your views and thats fine. Our views on that specifically is that some perks hindering others is fine. Considering we already have some perks that disable others and some POWERS that disable perks, we don't feel like it'll decrease all that much more. Especially considering theres a lack of variety anyways.

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 25, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  Its only going to be a boom or bust decision if you throw all of the metaphorical eggs in 1 basket. Which is the point. Distortion only counters aura reading (and technically temporarily as it can run out) and does nothing else. We can't decide how you feel, but we don't ever feel like that so thats a person to person issue.

  In reality, distortion will counter all of your aura reading if you don't bring about 3 aura perks, sometimes 2, or play a killer that can turn off their terror radius. The what you put in it to what you get out of the perk is wildly unbalanced.

  Old distortions was a mid perk but it wasn't useless it just does not need the changes.

  Languid touch is brought up because its an example of someone bringing something thats countered by another thing aka someone not bringing the right thing against the other side.

  Languid touch im using as an example of a perk existing solely to counter other perks that are strong, its the direction i see the game going in and it's just lame.

  Well safe is in itself boring no? If theres no risk theres no thrill and either someone takes a risk or no one gets thrills. While we'd like to see somethin like that, topic is diverging to far for our tastes here.

  Distortion creates this scenario its kinda a big point

  We believe there needs to be a balance of both. If its fully 1 or the other the game would probably die (how quickly we could argue all day), it needs both to a "healthy" extent (again, we can debate whats healthy till the sun burns out) to retain and attract its players.

  True but a healthy balance does not mean an equal one. From what ive seen most people seem to agree that interaction with the killer is what they define as healthy, personally i don't think that's a fair way of putting it because you can have a OTR/DS player body blocking the killer then going down mid chase and that interaction or a nurse blitzing a lobby but a fair fight and interaction together is important and that kinda means stealth needs to be limited and chases need to be of primary importance.

  We got many things to say but they are unnecessarily rude (and in this case do NOT want to find a more polite way to say them) so we are going to just say the following and leave it at that: you should probably find something you enjoy more.

  Saying i could say something rude then not saying it is in and of itself rude.

  also I enjoy dbd i just find faults with the game and I happen to have many games competing for my time the point is many players will be like this so saying "the game use to be worse" means nothing and should never be said especially when being better than the hot garbage this game use to be in hindsight is not a very high bar.

  Well atleast your consistent on this part. Unfortunately it also is dependent on if its factual and not subjective for example we don't care about dealing with swfs as killer. What if thing A is bad to Survivor 1 but not Survivor 2 like here? If A is bad only to S1 but to S 2-4 its ok?

  You seem to accept my subjective opinion right after this that

  so I think a lot of the dbd community just cannot cope with a normal loss

  Saying something is subjective is not a counterpoint just agree to disagree but don't say xyz is subjective as if its an argument because almost all balance opioons without an essay to back them up can be taken as subjective its why I'm having to overjustify basic's and i dont want to be rude but it is getting on my nerves.

  Everything can become a crutch but does not necessarily mean it is. (also "crutch" is defined as "a source or means of support or assistance that is relied on heavily or excessively"

  My personal view is that regardless of a perks strengths if running that perk by itself makes a specifc players preform disproportionality better than the average player gets out of the perk and they cannot compete as well without it even if the perk is "weak" which im not saying distorion is. It is a crutch for that player.

  Like you said anything "can" be a crutch but its fair to say a disproportionate amount of players are crutched on windows compared to other perks.

  Think of it like this. If they nerfed windows it would not be a thing I care about but for many players it would not just be a nerf to the perk it would feel like a nerf to them personally as a player as they can not preform to the levels they currently are preforming to without it. That means they crutched on windows in my view.

  I know I'm crutched in sprint burst I always run the perk when I play suv its too good so if it was nerfed I would be a worse survivor for it because even if I would not just be a bad player overnight the crutch pushing me a little higher would be gone.

  Assuming this is for us

  In reality, distortion will counter all of your aura reading if you don't bring about 3 aura perks, sometimes 2, or play a killer that can turn off their terror radius. The what you put in it to what you get out of the perk is wildly unbalanced.

  Old distortions was a mid perk but it wasn't useless it just does not need the changes.

  Awakened awareness, Gearhead, No where to hide, Lightborn and blood warden (yes, they in fact can if the survivor is stupid enough), undying (map dependent), and weave attunement are the aura perks that can chew through the 3 tokens very rapidly on their own (some under conditions as mentioned). Then we get into all the add ons for powers which we're not going to list. These things all chew through the initial 3 tokens you get and to get more you usually have to put yourself in the danger zone of a killers tr (some maps make this easier than others).

  If we're going into "put into what you get territory" we're going to end up with a longer list so we're just say all the change did was give a sound que and add a way to gain tokens and thats by being close to the killer (aka potential death in most cases). We're going to ask if you think that seriously broke it.

  Languid touch im using as an example of a perk existing solely to counter other perks that are strong, its the direction i see the game going in and it's just lame.

  Cool. That's your opinion on the mater.

  Distortion creates this scenario its kinda a big point

  So now we're going to ask for clear clarification here. This is the full picture we're getting of this conversation:

   As for boring gameplay, thats how the game is. If the killer camps do you really expect survivors to just trade till death?

  Yes but making the safest option the most boring one just kinda suck the fun out of the game. Personally, I think hooks should kill a little faster base but the higher the anti-camp meter is even if you don't get to unhook the slower the hook kills the survivor because i think forcing someone to die just sucks and I don't like the current solution which is to bring a perk like Reassurance

  Well safe is in itself boring no? If theres no risk theres no thrill and either someone takes a risk or no one gets thrills. While we'd like to see somethin like that, topic is diverging to far for our tastes here.

  Distortion creates this scenario its kinda a big point

  How is Distortion itself causing this and not the player's choice? Is Distortion forcing the killer to camp? No. Is Distortion forcing the survivor to take risks? No. Is Distortion making the safe option, which is doing gens and getting out, the boring option? No. Sooooo…

  True but a healthy balance does not mean an equal one. From what ive seen most people seem to agree that interaction with the killer is what they define as healthy, personally i don't think that's a fair way of putting it because you can have a OTR/DS player body blocking the killer then going down mid chase and that interaction or a nurse blitzing a lobby but a fair fight and interaction together is important and that kinda means stealth needs to be limited and chases need to be of primary importance.

  Your gona need to define and clarify "fair" and "primary importance" as we've repeated the bacon joke to many times already. Especially since this is an asym game.

  You seem to accept my subjective opinion right after this that

  We only agreed with that last part. And its still subjective, its just a subjective view we agree on. If someone else wants to change our minds they're free to try.

  Saying something is subjective is not a counterpoint just agree to disagree but don't say xyz is subjective as if its an argument because almost all balance opioons without an essay to back them up can be taken as subjective its why I'm having to overjustify basic's and i dont want to be rude but it is getting on my nerves.

  See though, alot of things are subjective when it comes to whats balanced or not. Even with an essay, its just trying to change peoples minds unless they put actual facts into it. This whole debate it to try and change your subjective opinion with arguments and occasionally certain facts. For example of the following which can be argued?: Distortion blocks aura reading while it has tokens, Distortion is token based and has so many uses before it needs to recharge, Distortion is OP because it can recharge tokens. Out of these only 1 can be argued correct? You claim this and that as facts but your only throwing opinions and theories and we're responding in kind. For example: "but what you bring should not be as boom or bust a decision", "Old distortions was a mid perk but it wasn't useless it just does not need the changes." "it's not nice to be forced to play a slower match to accommodate for your teammate who won't take any pressure." These are opinions and the third one in particular implies everyone who runs distortion won't take pressure, which is a subjective opinion and not fact. We know not every distortion user is a coward.

  My personal view is that regardless of a perks strengths if running that perk by itself makes a specifc players preform disproportionality better than the average player gets out of the perk and they cannot compete as well without it even if the perk is "weak" which im not saying distorion is. It is a crutch for that player.

  Like you said anything "can" be a crutch but its fair to say a disproportionate amount of players are crutched on windows compared to other perks.

  Think of it like this. If they nerfed windows it would not be a thing I care about but for many players it would not just be a nerf to the perk it would feel like a nerf to them personally as a player as they can not preform to the levels they currently are preforming to without it. That means they crutched on windows in my view.

  I know I'm crutched in sprint burst I always run the perk when I play suv its too good so if it was nerfed I would be a worse survivor for it because even if I would not just be a bad player overnight the crutch pushing me a little higher would be gone.

  Very well. Going by that definition then yes Distortion can become a crutch to specific players. Its admittedly confusing us as your definition implies a case by case basis. For example: "perk by itself makes a specifc players preform disproportionality better than the average player gets out of the perk" means to us that that player is crutching on it. But what of the players using it and still as good as the average player? Its not a crutch to them. Does it still make distoriton a crutch because some overly rely on it while the masses are fine?

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 24, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746793#Comment_3746793

  But then does it not balance out since its on a case by case basis? Its never going to work or fail 100% of the time, nothing will. Also since theres many ways that someone didnt bring the right thing against the other side (healing against plauge, distortion against someone not using aura, lithe or DH against languid touch) we may think your playing somethin you dont like.

  It's never going to work or fail 100% of the time but what you bring should not be as boom or bust a decision. I do not want to feel like I should bring a different type of perk just because what's popular eviscerates a weaker perk everything should be useable and not just turned on and off by other perks.

  You also brought up languid touch, all it does is give survivors exhaustion and this perk is seen as ok only because of how strong exhaustion perks are. That to me is a good indication that exhaustion perks are just too far ahead of the other survivor perk options.

  I may have brought it up may not have in one of my pervious posts where I said some killers just deserve to be stronger than other killers but my opinion on Plague is she is too strong for what she is. Perks that synergise too well with her like thana and the fact that she as you stated counters a perk type just because she changes the mechanics make me not like the killer.

  I think its a bit of a joke that a M1 basic attack killer that gives you info with loud sound notifications that cannot be missed, thats power is mechanically easier to use compared to every other killer that can down from range is allowed to be the strongest of those types of killers just because specific perks work too well on her. So although I think plague is bs I just want to see her nerfed, not ds canceling her power nerfed I just want to see her base power brought more in line with something like Slinger or the Cenobite.

  And just so you know we're also not talking out our arse (and admittedly to show off alittle):

  We are boomers :(

   As for boring gameplay, thats how the game is. If the killer camps do you really expect survivors to just trade till death?

  Yes but making the safest option the most boring one just kinda suck the fun out of the game. Personally, I think hooks should kill a little faster base but the higher the anti-camp meter is even if you don't get to unhook the slower the hook kills the survivor because i think forcing someone to die just sucks and I don't like the current solution which is to bring a perk like Reassurance

  That still doesn't solve the issue of distortion essentially turning some perks off but I don't like camping being the most viable option ever, it's boring for everyone involved who is not taking pleasure in boring someone else.

  As for the car analogy, we'd say the chase is the engine and wheels while stealth would be the frame and body.

  I'm not convinced this game survives without stumbling onto the gameplay loop it did with its chases (which was 100% accidental) If stealth was just erased from the game with basekit things that gave killers survivor locations every kinda like old Freddy on every killer (I'm coming up with the most ridiculous example that should never happen on purpose i don't actually think this should happen) I think the game would still have a player base, many players would leave but I don't think the game would die. Yea the windscreen wiper analogy may have been a bit extreme but honestly. I think it is true, the chase and stealth part of this game are not equally as important as each other.

  don't care a lick that its improved from that mess in the past. 

  Yeah because I don't just play dbd but the game is not competing with its past self it's competing with

  -Xdefiant

  -Elden ring

  -Fallout New Vegas

  -Europa Universalis 4

  -Nioh

  all games that I want to play more of and own, I imagine most players have their own game this applies to, hell it doesn't even have to be a game it can just be an activity they enjoy. It doesn't matter how it was it matters how it is my hours in dbd are not an investment in something that may or may not get better its time in a game, (time I'm about to have a lot less of because of life stuff, I'm just wring these posts in between job applications because I just finished uni) so if the game doesn't get better I will just stop playing when I have less time. Just because the game is in a better state than when it was a complete mess doesn't mean jack because that is such a low bar to pass.

  As does the killer tunneling and survivors being carried by friends in a swf which don't necessarily require perks.

  and all these things suck to deal with on the other side though.
  say for example i say thing A is bad (and it is) and then you say thing B is bad and C as well it doesn't change that thing A is bad. Although I do think tunnelling is not as common as its made out to be, it's kinda the same with "bully squads" which i don't think can ever bully a killer of equivalent skill (the killer will win in that scenario) so I think a lot of the dbd community just cannot cope with a normal loss.

  With that out of the way, let us ask a question: Why do players bring perks? We believe its to help them shore up weaknesses or facilitate a playstyle. In the vein of Distortion, it helps play stealthy. Some are better in chase and some are not and if not being caught makes them more efficient then Distortion helps. If by this describes a crutch to you, then every perk must follow.

  I don't think I said it clearly and concisely so I'm going to have another go at it.

  Is a perk a crutch perk if it shifts the responsibility of the hardest part of the game onto a teammate?

  Say if your teammates cannot hold chase you will probably lose, if they can you stand a good chance at winning, but it's taking some of the individual players who's using it, ability out of the equation and emphasising the importance of the ability of the other players in the lobby.

  Does that make it a crutch or more liable to be used as a crutch?

  The reason i am asking is because the way you described the perk make me think of this BUT I am self-conscious enough to know that i want to be convinced it is because

  1. I don't like the perk
  2. I don't use the perk much at all

  so I am genuinely asking does this makes it a crutch?

  But when you say

  In the vein of Distortion, it helps play stealthy. Some are better in chase and some are not and if not being caught makes them more efficient then Distortion helps.

  or

  distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase

  to me who thinks this

  because as I said the game is the chase it is what players are judged on, and if nobody in the lobby can hold one you will lose no matter what because anyone can do gen whether they choose to is something else. Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually

  It sounds like the perk is to me.

  But you keep answering a question with a question and not clearly saying it is or is not and why

  It's never going to work or fail 100% of the time but what you bring should not be as boom or bust a decision. I do not want to feel like I should bring a different type of perk just because what's popular eviscerates a weaker perk everything should be useable and not just turned on and off by other perks.

  -[and the 3 paragraphs below to shorten the reply]-

  Its only going to be a boom or bust decision if you throw all of the metaphorical eggs in 1 basket. Which is the point. Distortion only counters aura reading (and technically temporarily as it can run out) and does nothing else. We can't decide how you feel, but we don't ever feel like that so thats a person to person issue.

  Languid touch is brought up because its an example of someone bringing something thats countered by another thing aka someone not bringing the right thing against the other side. Why its seen as ok varies but we think its more than "because of how strong exhaustion perks are".

  We're going to ignore the next 2 paragraphs as that doesn't relate to the topic at hand from what we see.

  Yes but making the safest option the most boring one just kinda suck the fun out of the game. Personally, I think hooks should kill a little faster base but the higher the anti-camp meter is even if you don't get to unhook the slower the hook kills the survivor because i think forcing someone to die just sucks and I don't like the current solution which is to bring a perk like Reassurance

  That still doesn't solve the issue of distortion essentially turning some perks off but I don't like camping being the most viable option ever, it's boring for everyone involved who is not taking pleasure in boring someone else.

  Well safe is in itself boring no? If theres no risk theres no thrill and either someone takes a risk or no one gets thrills. While we'd like to see somethin like that, topic is diverging to far for our tastes here.

  Thats the point of distortion, to temporarily turn off killer's aura reading, just like languid above (and other exhaustion causing perks) turn off exhaustion perks and undetectable perks turn off survivor aura reading and so on. Things turn off other things in this game, if everyone got to be picky and choosie then things downgrade fast (and we mean in quality, not strictly speaking strength).

  I'm not convinced this game survives without stumbling onto the gameplay loop it did with its chases (which was 100% accidental) If stealth was just erased from the game with basekit things that gave killers survivor locations every kinda like old Freddy on every killer (I'm coming up with the most ridiculous example that should never happen on purpose i don't actually think this should happen) I think the game would still have a player base, many players would leave but I don't think the game would die. Yea the windscreen wiper analogy may have been a bit extreme but honestly. I think it is true, the chase and stealth part of this game are not equally as important as each other.

  We believe there needs to be a balance of both. If its fully 1 or the other the game would probably die (how quickly we could argue all day), it needs both to a "healthy" extent (again, we can debate whats healthy till the sun burns out) to retain and attract its players.

  Yeah because I don't just play dbd but the game is not competing with its past self it's competing with

  -[insert games here]-

  all games that I want to play more of and own, I imagine most players have their own game this applies to, hell it doesn't even have to be a game it can just be an activity they enjoy. It doesn't matter how it was it matters how it is my hours in dbd are not an investment in something that may or may not get better its time in a game, (time I'm about to have a lot less of because of life stuff, I'm just wring these posts in between job applications because I just finished uni) so if the game doesn't get better I will just stop playing when I have less time. Just because the game is in a better state than when it was a complete mess doesn't mean jack because that is such a low bar to pass.

  We got many things to say but they are unnecessarily rude (and in this case do NOT want to find a more polite way to say them) so we are going to just say the following and leave it at that: you should probably find something you enjoy more.

  and all these things suck to deal with on the other side though.
  say for example i say thing A is bad (and it is) and then you say thing B is bad and C as well it doesn't change that thing A is bad. Although I do think tunnelling is not as common as its made out to be, it's kinda the same with "bully squads" which i don't think can ever bully a killer of equivalent skill (the killer will win in that scenario) so I think a lot of the dbd community just cannot cope with a normal loss.

  Well atleast your consistent on this part. Unfortunately it also is dependent on if its factual and not subjective for example we don't care about dealing with swfs as killer. What if thing A is bad to Survivor 1 but not Survivor 2 like here? If A is bad only to S1 but to S 2-4 its ok? It cant be subjective. Though this part we agree whole heartedly: "a lot of the dbd community just cannot cope with a normal loss."

  I don't think I said it clearly and concisely so I'm going to have another go at it.

  Does that make it a crutch or more liable to be used as a crutch?

  The reason i am asking is because the way you described the perk make me think of this BUT I am self-conscious enough to know that i want to be convinced it is because

  I don't like the perk

  I don't use the perk much at all

  so I am genuinely asking does this makes it a crutch?

  But when you say

  In the vein of Distortion, it helps play stealthy. Some are better in chase and some are not and if not being caught makes them more efficient then Distortion helps.

  or

  distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase

  to me who thinks this

  because as I said the game is the chase it is what players are judged on, and if nobody in the lobby can hold one you will lose no matter what because anyone can do gen whether they choose to is something else. Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually

  It sounds like the perk is to me.

  But you keep answering a question with a question and not clearly saying it is or is not and why

  Heres the thing: Everything can become a crutch but does not necessarily mean it is. (also "crutch" is defined as "a source or means of support or assistance that is relied on heavily or excessively" by us. If you have your own definition of "crutch" please put it somewhere obvious and clearly stated) It is depending entirely on the wielder. It can be used as a crutch just as much as Bond or pain res can be used as a crutch. The perk itself is not a crutch but people may use it as such (yes we're repeating but thats to emphasize the point and the "why"). We do admit it may be more liable to be used as a crutch but that would be because there are not many good ways aside from lockers to hide auras (Sole survivor, which requires teammates dying, shadow step, which is a boon and fixed area, and Off the record, which requires being unhooked).

  We asked the following: "Why do players bring perks?" because "We believe its to help them shore up weaknesses or facilitate a playstyle." For chase people bring things like Sprint burst or Lithe, for information kindred or wiretap and such on in a similar vein that Distortion is used to hide better. We are trying to get a read on how your thinking about things relate to each other to try and explain better and show how some things are like another (or realize its time to call it a day and say fk it). We are saying the why (maybe poorly but we are).

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 23, 2024

• @Devil_hit11 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746804#Comment_3746804

  what do you mean by hunting them? you mean following scratch marks? pretty sure that get improved quicker as well. you won't fall to any jukes. Mindgaming might also be better because typically tunnelers tend to ram themselves into unfavourable tiles which results in them having to learn mindgames to beat unfavourable tiles.

  managing to exert pressure across multiple survivors

  Sometimes eliminating a survivor early is best pressure. It depends for how long you take to eliminate the survivor. For example, I remember watching a game played by Xeno Blight where he tunneled on coal tower but lost 4 gens as blight but because he only had 3 perks, he wasn't able to comeback vs Japanese team with his 3 perks(Corrupt/Pain res/Pop/Grim embrace was his default build but corrupt was omitted due to 3 perk slot limit).

  Hunting as in locating the stealthy ones (this aspect has been lessened with all the aura reading) and keeping track of whos where.

  Sometimes eliminating a survivor early is best pressure. It depends for how long you take to eliminate the survivor. For example, I remember watching a game played by Xeno Blight where he tunneled on coal tower but lost 4 gens as blight but because he only had 3 perks, he wasn't able to comeback vs Japanese team with his 3 perks(Corrupt/Pain res/Pop/Grim embrace was his default build but corrupt was omitted due to 3 perk slot limit).

  No, it is the best pressure, but that does not negate the cons of the list. As you said, depending on how long it takes it could backfire or not. If it does then gens get done and 2-4 people escape and if it doesn't then how much skill in the other areas are they practicing? Once the killer is unable to tunnel any survivor out they're left with the inability to pressure multiple survivors enough to get resources down before the gens get done.

  in Pros and Cons of Tunneling Comment by Rulebreaker June 23, 2024

• @Backmon said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745757#Comment_3745757

  Singularity is caring by his busted base kit and yes its indeed difficult to just spawn camera on the map and just watch survivor on them (no). And yes i never play as him but watching content creators he feels like really easy and busted killer plus i going against him and chase never last longer than 15 seconds both for me and my teammate. His pallet shredd and fast vaulting denying any counterplay survivors have

  So for Hux you need to place cameras (which can be fried with EMPs), then tag them by looking at them for abit (which the survivors can move or EMP), then keep looking at a tagged survivor (which they can again move away or EMP, which also cleans the tag AND breaks the camera) which then teleports you with a buff. You need a good chunk of set up to even attempt this and its relatively easily dismantled by survivors with braincells and some prep (admittedly sometimes a tall ask).

  Second, many content creators (maybe not all but we dont know) usually spend time to learn and become good to not make themselves look bad. They went and bothered to actually learn how to play him well. Take a try before the buffs go live and see for yourself. If you and your teammates don't last long in chase thats sadly on you guys. He only shreds pallets and fast vaults while in overclock, which only happens when he teleports, which only happens if your tagged, which only happens if you don't use EMPs, which only happens if no one uses them for some reason.

  in BHVR logic Comment by Rulebreaker June 23, 2024

• @Devil_hit11 said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745841#Comment_3745841

  i'd argue that your killer skill improves faster in 1vs1 by tunneling. Your going to be way better at the chase. You may eventually find out how to evaluate the risk of going for strong loops vs risk losing gens. main drawback of tunneling is that you have faster chance to lose generators if you commit to the wrong tunnels and you will have less hook states allowing you to be more susceptible to bodyblocking(Unbreakable, Adrenaline), flashlights, pallet saves and hook sabotage.

  other than that, there is lack of chase-risk in tunneling. It is not like survivor is stronger at the chase when they're getting tunneled. You don't get stat boosts as survivor for getting tunneled.

  Only the chase part. Hunting them, mindgames (you kinda can but really many just try to burn pallets asap), managing to exert pressure across multiple survivors. These aspects are all neglected.

  in Pros and Cons of Tunneling Comment by Rulebreaker June 23, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746268#Comment_3746268

  Then literally every perk is a crutch. In fact, technically speaking yes, every perk is a crutch as everyone relies on them for help.

  The reason im poseing the question is it a crutch is because its shifting the responsibility of holding the chase to other players. Not every perk is a crutch but when you say.

  distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase.

  It sounds like it is a perk that is more of a crutch than other perks because productivity not really that much of a skill because as i said previously

  as I said the game is the chase it is what players are judged on, and if nobody in the lobby can hold one you will lose no matter what because anyone can do gen whether they choose to is something else. Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually.

  So it kinda helps players play into lobbies they just are not good enough for.

  and who exactly cares? This isn't to be completely rude as its a genuine question cause even if you can hold chase for minutes, if the killer finds and decides to target someone who cant chase, 

  Players in the lobby care. Also, it just sucks to have to carry someone else's weight especially because even when you hold a killer for ages you are very likely to be sacrificed because the ego-chaseing killer is offended at the idea a survivor has run them. Yes this is partially on killers but perks are easier to change than attuide and I don't think the ego-chasing killer who wants his 1k is ever-changing their mind.

  I was working my way up your post not down it so I think this quote is a relevant point where we disagree but i only saw it after writing the last paragraph and I dont want to rewrite it in

  Overall, its a person problem not a perk problem.

  Because I don't think you can fix the issue with the players but you can with the perk.

  Hey~ You finally admitted it your opinions and not undeniable facts, we're proud.

  We are taking about dbd balanced its all opinions like i said at the start though

  What's strong is strong you can try and say dark theory is op and that is your right. You would be wrong.

  And a lot of the "its not strong that's why i use it all the time" players are coping that may not be something I can prove but it is true we all know it. In the same way we know Sprint burst is a strong perk we don't need to qualify everything with imo imo.

  We can't speak for everyone but we were here when there was instant-repair-BNP, instant-up medkits, infinites, exhaustion recovering while running, Dribbling DS, Original DH, Omega nurse, moon walking legions, and things such as those. Those were "broken" to us. Many things currently are strong but not like that. Things like distortion compared to THOSE are laughable.

  I know I started playing dbd in 2017 (see previous post to firellius) but just because it's better doesn't mean it's actually in a good state. I got a friend into dbd this year and he is a killer player who complains and lot every time I tell him it used to be worse he has a go at me and honestly, he is right.

  Things being completely busted and games being decided by a single key or an object user with comms behind the great wall of azarovs doesn't justify the faults of the game as it is today.

  The chase is a PART of the game, its not the whole game. If the survivors are good enough, can be entirely avoided.

  The chase is the only reason this game has lived as long as it has. It may only be a part but it may as well be the whole thing because if dbd was a car the chase would be the engine, the seats, the wheels, and the frame while the stealth would be the windscreen wipers.

  If chases stopped happening consistently because every stealth perk was buffed to the moon or every pallet or window got removed the game would die immediately. That's not an exaggeration.

  You may not think its a good idea but thats the way this works, and if they do camp, the aforementioned gens get finished without worry and off the rest go.

  You are giving the average killer player too much credit when put in the toughest of spots most will try and secure the 1k or 2k and won't shoot for the 4k. This may seem a bit cynical but its the way they are.

  Also on both side even disregarding that this just leads to boring gameplay its not the result that really matters it the gameplay sucks it sucks.

  ….so how can something be strong and yet not do anything? The survivors there got nothin outta distortion while the killer was gaining progress.

  When im talking about it Game by game. Build by build.

  When the game becomes about hoping you have not brought the right stuff for what the other side has it will suck. Its why i keep banging the drum when everything gets too strong it becomes more about what you have and what its good into. That sucks it just sucks ass to play games like that.

  I don't know if you play it so this may be a bad example but it's why counter-swapping becoming too important killed my enjoyment of overwatch, I don't want to be punished or rewarded for choosing to use specific perks rather than being published for misplaying or misusing my tools.

  And what is stopping the killer from going out and trying to pressure the survivors?

  Because in the scenario we have come to they are doing it with 2 perks.

  The reason im poseing the question is it a crutch is because its shifting the responsibility of holding the chase to other players. Not every perk is a crutch but when you say.

  Then by that reasoning not every perk is "broken" but when you say. From the other post:

  What's strong is strong you can try and say dark theory is op and that is your right. You would be wrong.

  You are not a reality warper whats broken is broken and whats weak is weak.

  With that out of the way, let us ask a question: Why do players bring perks? We believe its to help them shore up weaknesses or facilitate a playstyle. In the vein of Distortion, it helps play stealthy. Some are better in chase and some are not and if not being caught makes them more efficient then Distortion helps. If by this describes a crutch to you, then every perk must follow.

  So it kinda helps players play into lobbies they just are not good enough for.

  As does the killer tunneling and survivors being carried by friends in a swf which don't necessarily require perks. If the survivor can survive and get out the door without being seen then that sorta proves they have enough skill in stealth to keep moving forward.

  I know I started playing dbd in 2017 (see previous post to firellius) but just because it's better doesn't mean it's actually in a good state. I got a friend into dbd this year and he is a killer player who complains and lot every time I tell him it used to be worse he has a go at me and honestly, he is right.

  Things being completely busted and games being decided by a single key or an object user with comms behind the great wall of azarovs doesn't justify the faults of the game as it is today.

  Good is subjective. And this is going to give us weird flashbacks buuuuut: Whats good for you is not good for me and whats good for me is not good for senior bacon which one turn may not be good for whomever is next on the list. From what it sounds like you just want the game to change into your own version and don't care a lick that its improved from that mess in the past. We don't know if its true or not but keep in mind thats what it sounds like.

  We're going to ignore the friend part as we don't have something we can say politely. (yes the above was our "polite")

  The chase is the only reason this game has lived as long as it has. It may only be a part but it may as well be the whole thing because if dbd was a car the chase would be the engine, the seats, the wheels, and the frame while the stealth would be the windscreen wipers.

  If chases stopped happening consistently because every stealth perk was buffed to the moon or every pallet or window got removed the game would die immediately. That's not an exaggeration.

  We're of the thought that all the licences is whats kept the game goin. That aside no its not the only reason as there is a myriad of factors thats done the job. You may favor the chase and place the most importance on it, but you are not everyone and can't speek for everyone. Looking at previous posts of others shows that a decent number of players value using stealth. As for the car analogy, we'd say the chase is the engine and wheels while stealth would be the frame and body.

  We do agree that if every stealth perk got buffed to obscene levels the game would start dying, but as it is theres none there and we haven't seen any plans of BHVR for it. It would be to the levels of survivors being practically invisible for chases to stop on a consistent basis.

  You are giving the average killer player too much credit when put in the toughest of spots most will try and secure the 1k or 2k and won't shoot for the 4k. This may seem a bit cynical but its the way they are.

  Also on both side even disregarding that this just leads to boring gameplay its not the result that really matters it the gameplay sucks it sucks.

  We've seen all types over the years. Some surprise us others don't, but we do not know until we see. As for boring gameplay, thats how the game is. If the killer camps do you really expect survivors to just trade till death? The killer has to hunt them (which is another part of the game). And just so you know we're also not talking out our arse (and admittedly to show off alittle):

  

  When im talking about it Game by game. Build by build.

  When the game becomes about hoping you have not brought the right stuff for what the other side has it will suck. Its why i keep banging the drum when everything gets too strong it becomes more about what you have and what its good into. That sucks it just sucks ass to play games like that.

  But then does it not balance out since its on a case by case basis? Its never going to work or fail 100% of the time, nothing will. Also since theres many ways that someone didnt bring the right thing against the other side (healing against plauge, distortion against someone not using aura, lithe or DH against languid touch) we may think your playing somethin you dont like.

  Because in the scenario we have come to they are doing it with 2 perks.

  Thats not stopping them. Thats them having to go about it harder.

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 23, 2024

• Similar to MrPenguin. We've disliked Billy pretty much since we started. Our tin foil hat believes the "Billy is fun to go against" group were all Billy mains. That said, people giving up at the sight of Billy is news to us (not exactly surprising with how players are lately though).

  in Is everyone sick of Hillbilly at this point? Comment by Rulebreaker June 22, 2024

• Well, Shadow of the Erdtree hit so that where the 3 of us are…

  in Is there anyone online? Comment by Rulebreaker June 22, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746110#Comment_3746110

  But since the pressure is off of everyone doesn't that make Distortion ok? 

  If the pressure is off every surviver the killer then the survivers are gaining progress while the killer is gaining nothing. That is strong very strong.

  If the killer brings no aura reading, what happens?

  It dose nothing that's why i keep saying it punishes the killer for using perks that are weaker a friend of mine played a game of wesker today streaming it to me in discord where in ran Pain res, Ruin, Brutal strength, and plaything. Every survivor had effectively 3 perks because he does not run aura reading.

  It's why I keep saying when perks keep getting stronger it becomes more about what you bring and how good it is than what the other side brings.

  Perks are ment to shore up your weaknesses, and distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase.

  The chase is the game. yes there is a macro game to dbd but nobody respects a player for being good on gens or knowing when to camp. It is just not it and even your previous post seems to miss this point when you say

  The killer is then left with no one popping up, and either camps, which gives everyone else time to pop the gens and escape, or goes off to find people the old fashioned way and the game goes on as normal

  Offering the killers the choice of camping or playing the game with effectively 1 less perk, potentially 2 is not a good idea.

  (they will camp lots of killers will always try and win no matter what)

  Also if we recall correctly, you called distortion "broken" in another thread~ [We really cant help but poke this bait]

  I feel like people are misunderstanding this because they just are used to how strong the top tier of stuff is.

  Most of the best perks are broken imo. The "meta" has only ever changed when a perk completely busted like old MFT came out, regression has always been the best type of killer perk ever since old pop came out and ruins rework.

  so yeah distortion is broken, pop is broken, sprint burst is broken even surge is broken because as long as pop and pain res exist at their current level excess regression is broken. (its why i think diminishing returns are needed on these perks or pop and pain res need to be gutted because they break other perks)

  Honestly, resurgence, the perk they are buffing, in its pre buff state is what I think is a good benchmark for what the average strong perk should be. It's impactful and helpful but its not likly to define your match in the way sprint burst will

  an example on the killer side is brutal strength it's clearly a useful perk it gets me hit but its not by itself going to keep a gen up like pain res will that will have the knock-on effect of winning me the match, or completely halt survivor momentum when i start downing in quick succession putting the game out of reach of the survivors.

  You said

  Perks are ment to shore up your weaknesses

  but can you really say that avoiding being found and letting someone else take all the pressure is just shoring up a weakness or is it significantly impacting the match?

  Edit

  Also

  distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase.

  to me, this comes across as describing a crutch ( im not saying its your crutch but I'm saying perks like this are crutches) because as I said the game is the chase it is what players are judged on, and if nobody in the lobby can hold one you will lose no matter what because anyone can do gen whether they choose to is something else. Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually.

  If the pressure is off every surviver the killer then the survivers are gaining progress while the killer is gaining nothing. That is strong very strong.

  And what is stopping the killer from going out and trying to pressure the survivors? If its a lack of aura reading then theres a problem with said killer as there was a time long ago that killers didn't have all these fancy perks that lit survivors up like Christmas lights. Many still did fine then without them.

  It dose nothing that's why i keep saying it punishes the killer for using perks that are weaker a friend of mine played a game of wesker today streaming it to me in discord where in ran Pain res, Ruin, Brutal strength, and plaything. Every survivor had effectively 3 perks because he does not run aura reading.

  And we keep thinking your either missing or ignoring the point. And also being a bit of a hypocrite here. First look at this part of what you said above: "If the pressure is off every surviver the killer then the survivers are gaining progress while the killer is gaining nothing. That is strong very strong."

  Now read the next thing: "Every survivor had effectively 3 perks because he does not run aura reading."

  ….so how can something be strong and yet not do anything? The survivors there got nothin outta distortion while the killer was gaining progress.

  Next is that no, it doesn't "punish" anyone. As we've said, perks are ment to shore up weaknesses (or compliment a playstyle but we didn't say this before). Some like the help aura reading gives, others don't, its the player's choice to run whatever they wish, and its never going to be perfect 100% of the time.

  The chase is the game. yes there is a macro game to dbd but nobody respects a player for being good on gens or knowing when to camp. It is just not it and even your previous post seems to miss this point when you say

  -[Insert our quote here]-

  Offering the killers the choice of camping or playing the game with effectively 1 less perk, potentially 2 is not a good idea.

  (they will camp lots of killers will always try and win no matter what)

  The chase is a PART of the game, its not the whole game. If the survivors are good enough, can be entirely avoided. Most on dbd don't respect anyone, so we don't know what your expecting here. I'll say this though, I respect one who was able to be effective while stealthing more than the idiot who wanted my attention and going down in 10 seconds (the other 2 may vary). And as for the last 2 there, your trying to make the best out of your situation in this scenario. You may not think its a good idea but thats the way this works, and if they do camp, the aforementioned gens get finished without worry and off the rest go. And the ones that do hunt even if they can't see auras with their perks tend to do better overall than the camping ones from our experience.

  I feel like people are misunderstanding this because they just are used to how strong the top tier of stuff is.

  We can't speak for everyone but we were here when there was instant-repair-BNP, instant-up medkits, infinites, exhaustion recovering while running, Dribbling DS, Original DH, Omega nurse, moon walking legions, and things such as those. Those were "broken" to us. Many things currently are strong but not like that. Things like distortion compared to THOSE are laughable.

  Most of the best perks are broken imo.

  Hey~ You finally admitted it your opinions and not undeniable facts, we're proud. 👏 I know we poked the bait, so we'll admit fault to that, if you want us to reply to the stuff below regarding the next 4 paragraphs we will, but on a different thread as we'll completely derail the topic here otherwise.

  You said

  Perks are ment to shore up your weaknesses

  but can you really say that avoiding being found and letting someone else take all the pressure is just shoring up a weakness or is it significantly impacting the match?

  Honestly? Yes. Its dependent on the situation as there are matches where someone is using it to hide while being unproductive. There are also those who use it so that they can remain productive by not having the killer come to their gen or intercept their incoming rescue/hex breaking/whatever. People can also run distortion and attempt to take agro anyway, its just harder. Overall, its a person problem not a perk problem. And as Firellius has repeatedly pointed out, theres 4 survivors total. Its not just 1 person taking all the pressure most times (bar tunneling).

  to me, this comes across as describing a crutch ( im not saying its your crutch but I'm saying perks like this are crutches) because as I said the game is the chase it is what players are judged on, and if nobody in the lobby can hold one you will lose no matter what because anyone can do gen whether they choose to is something else. Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually.

  Then literally every perk is a crutch. In fact, technically speaking yes, every perk is a crutch as everyone relies on them for help. And we're going to repeat that chase is a part of the game not the whole thing. If you can keep the killer in the area looking for you and never be seen, your burning more of their time and can keep being productive when the killer fs off rather than the idiot whos going down in 30 seconds or less.

  "Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually."

  ….and who exactly cares? This isn't to be completely rude as its a genuine question cause even if you can hold chase for minutes, if the killer finds and decides to target someone who cant chase, what good is it? The killer aint goin after you, your teammates are going to be dying much sooner unless they're able to hide, but they're having a much harder time cause distortion got hit by the nerf bat (…or knowing the history of this game, possibly the hammer). The macro (we're assuming this means the gens as your rather vague on what you mean by "Macro") may not be difficult but if no one does it then survivors can't get out.

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 22, 2024

• We want him nerfed. That said, we're also biased and hate him.

  in Does Billy need any slight nerfs? Comment by Rulebreaker June 22, 2024

• Actually another con: Your not taking care to defend generators, making it easy to speed through gens

  in Pros and Cons of Tunneling Comment by Rulebreaker June 22, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745789#Comment_3745789

  Yes but then multiple aura perks are essentially disabled and that is part of why they are so weak compared to the other perk types and as a killer it feels like survivors are making progress without needing to hold you in chase while you have 1 or 2 less tools than you would have if you just brought a stronger build. Its why the perk is just strong.

  Also, it is pushing people to play around their teammate's perks when the game does not tell you what your team is running, and even then it's not nice to be forced to play a slower match to accommodate for your teammate who won't take any pressure.

  But since the pressure is off of everyone doesn't that make Distortion ok? And since theres a way for everyone to ignore most aura reading if they're careful, whats the problem of having a perk that simplifies having to dodge readings? Survivors don't always need to hold killers in chase for making progress. A killer to be able to hunt them down, if the killer requires aura reading to do that then thats their own problem. Survivors only need to keep the killer busy so the gens get finished or everyone else is dead for a last chance attempt at doors or hatch. It does not matter how the killer is kept busy. You roll the dice on a build, sometimes its just unlucky.

  Its why the perk is just strong.

  If the killer brings no aura reading, what happens?

  Also if we recall correctly, you called distortion "broken" in another thread~ [We really cant help but poke this bait]

  Also, it is pushing people to play around their teammate's perks when the game does not tell you what your team is running, and even then it's not nice to be forced to play a slower match to accommodate for your teammate who won't take any pressure.

  Not really. Dbd has been a simple concept. Throw 4 people in a box with something that wants to kill them, give the 4 ways out, add in perks and powers for spice, and see what happens. Perks are ment to shore up your weaknesses, and distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase. You don't need to accommodate anyone but yourself (or if your feeling generous, your friends in a SWF) as trying to always accommodate random others is a certain failure.

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 22, 2024

• Pros:

  • Possibility to remove a survivor early and drastically increase chance of 4k
  • Not much thinking required
  • Easy to implement at a base level
  • Can be done by any killer with any build

  Cons:

  • Can backfire if you tunnel the wrong survivor (aka someone who's much better than you)
  • There are a handful of perks specifically designed to punish this type of play style.
  • Boring all round (this is admittedly subjective)
  • Does not improve the killers skill much
  • Repeated use ends up putting the killer against survivors good enough where the killer is effectively a joke no matter what they do (aka: puts them in a spot where their lack of skill shows)
  • Inflates egos (possibly subjective, but has proven as fact to us so far)

  in Pros and Cons of Tunneling Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745510#Comment_3745510

  Yes, on YOU specifically. Distortion has to be picked by all four in order for these perks to be truly and fully countered. One Distortion doesn't do that. It weakens it, sure, but it doesn't block the entire perk.

  Saying there are other players to go for therefore distortion is ok doesn't work because if say 2 players have to take all the pressure because the killer is running something like bbq and lethal and he just wants to take the shortest route they will ping pong between them, the best way to win right now easily is to ping pong between 2 players on a lot of killers it is not good.

  You already mentioned Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, and Floods of Rage. You correctly identified that I'm All Ears is NOT one of the problem perks as it serves a different function. There's also Weave Attunement and Friends 'Til the End. Ultimate Weapon can also be counted, though it has already been solidly nerfed, but then also retains its problematic aspect.

  Do you just have a problem with perks that reveal you?

  The game has gone in a direction where if they don't they would be useless im never going to be running wispers or spies ever over something like surge, pain res, deadlock or even brutal strength. Edit (NTH is the exception its out of line with the other aura perks i want it nerfed)

  The game has gone in a direction where looking for players is secondary to chasing them so as long as you fulfil the condition, you get aura.

  Distortion existence in its current state makes the game worse for the people who are not using it and for killer using the perks in counters furthering the gap between the detection perks and the top perks its existence is not justifiable within this context.

  Saying there are other players to go for therefore distortion is ok doesn't work because if say 2 players have to take all the pressure because the killer is running something like bbq and lethal and he just wants to take the shortest route they will ping pong between them, the best way to win right now easily is to ping pong between 2 players on a lot of killers it is not good.

  In this case, couldn't atleast 1 of the 2 without distortion also hide? For example, one gets hooked, sees the killer B lining for the other, gets unhooked, and as soon as the other goes down, books it to a locker, which blocks aura reading. The killer is then left with no one popping up, and either camps, which gives everyone else time to pop the gens and escape, or goes off to find people the old fashioned way and the game goes on as normal.

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• @Backmon said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745748#Comment_3745748

  Problem is he is more complex to play against then to play is. Thats a reason why merchant and singularity the same. You need more skill and knowledge to play against them, then play as them. And giving up is indeed big problem on this two

  And this is where the benefits of doubt go away.

  We've played hux. We've played against hux. It requires A LOT more to play successfully with him than against him. You can make an argument that it requires some teamwork which is lack luster in solo, but mate, it's grab EMP, prep EMP, go do job while keeping nearby EMPs ready and blowing up cameras efficiently (efficiently is also a possible teammate problem but not a Hux one). While something may change if the buffs go live, current Hux ain't an overpowered Bender that's near unbeatable.

  in BHVR logic Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• @Backmon said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745735#Comment_3745735

  My teammate doesnt even know about EMP existence, at least they doing the gens right next to singularity camera. he teleport to them, caught and hook them, they give up on 1st hook and gg. Thats a reason i use skull merchant as example. Every time i play against Singularity (which is not a lot cause he is unpopular) at least one of my solo teammates give up on 1st hook. There is a reason why old chess merchant players love current singularity.

  ....that's then a problem with teammates then instead of Hux is it not?....

  in BHVR logic Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• @Backmon said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745722#Comment_3745722

  in case of 3 gen strategy he is overpowered and more insufferable than skull merchant or knight (i wrote above how its completely impossible to break 3 gen against him)

  Hux can not hold a 3 gen indefinitely as if Hux breaks a gen 8 times it's BLOCKED from regressing from things like pop. This is something for every killer, including melty bot. At best can hold a 3 gen almost as good as merchant. Knight still definitely holds 3 gens better than hux currently (and probably after the buffs).

  We're going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume you know what you're doing, so what are your teammates doing? Are they picking up EMP or prepping them? Are you all being conservative with them or using them liberally?

  in BHVR logic Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• @Backmon said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745712#Comment_3745712

  No robots. already strong overpowered killers who get huge buffs when some other deserve it more. And who can make more insufferable match to play against than skull merchant

  While we won't argue about others needing buffs more with Freddy sitting in the corner, Hux ain't overpowered. You can reliably and semi easily remove and deny his power by following Yharwick's advice, needs to set up a decent amount to get strong. From what we've seen of the buffs it makes Hux easier to pick up (and maybe buff camping ability) and that's it.

  in BHVR logic Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• We're getting the feeling you have a dislike of robots

  in BHVR logic Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• @Backmon said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745678#Comment_3745678

  singularity is overrated by difficulty. nurse/cenobite/artist much harder than him. singularity have to much in his base kit (map presure /teleport/fast pallet break and window vaulting and passive game delay (survivors need to shut down your camera))

  We can personally guarantee you that cenobite and artist are not harder than hux on a default base

  in Singularity does not deserve a buff Comment by Rulebreaker June 21, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744526#Comment_3744526

  You are vehemently campaigning to have everything that still gets used by survivors, the statistically weaker role, nerfed.

  Ostensibly for the sake of perk diversity, but you seem unwilling to entertain the idea of buffing the underpicked.

  You accuse others of being 'entitled [Role] mains', and I'm just telling you that you fit the bill too.

  You are all in a bubble and sometimes when you are part of a bubble you don't realise how the bubble looks from the outside, the forums is not known for being the place you go to for sensible dbd takes for this reason most players are in their bubble and when they are confronted with an opinion about the game that is just different from theirs's it must be from them the other side.

  It may seem ironic coming from "unused killer name" but its just how it is.

  The fact that I have the opinion perks are generally too strong at the top end (so are addons and items but eh) want almost all the top survivor and killer perks nerfed and brought back in line and I have seen people go "you want to nerf suv stuff" and even the person i have argued the point with for a few days now back and forth says "i can see how they see you as an entitled killer main" in actually kinda insane

  if you can call for 8 of the top 10 used killer perks (and there is, even more, I would nerf past that) to being nerfed in a thread and still get that it's mental.

  This is also a good microcosm of why a lot of people think the forums are a bit of a dumpster fire you are either in the bubble or in the mental killer and suv camp.

  This is also something that is often misunderstood. Distortion doesn't negate an aura reading perk by itself. One person having Distortion does not fully disable your NTH, FoR, UW or any other aura reading. It just protects one survivor.

  You need four distortions to make these perks irrelevant.

  Partially true but distortion makes whole perks irrelevant my favorate build to run right now is wesker with BBQ, Pain Res, Brutal Strength and Lethal Pursuer a strong build but could make it stronger by dropping lethal for pop most perks without both pop and pain res are like this and its silly making aura perks a choice to be effected by only exaserbates the issue.

  and yes distortion is op but you know what my view on op is no point is arguing that point we have already done so people using who don't know when they need to do what they need to do are just more annoying that with other perks

  Also, I wouldn't say that the aura reading perks are strictly weaker. Never having to search for a survivor is pretty strong and can probably compete with some regression picks, especially since it only really needs to compete with the fourth one down the list

  It doesn't. Sometimes having 1 with 3 regression/blocking perks is better than a fourth but none are better.
  
  Keeping bad gens up and good gen spread translates into downs, playing in weaker areas and less time burnt just crossing the map. Their are just so many things about the fundamentals of dbd that make regression perks the best perks in the game.

  sorry no more replies today England are on and its coming home.

  You are all in a bubble and sometimes when you are part of a bubble you don't realise how the bubble looks from the outside

  Tell us, what do you think you're bubble looks like to us?

  Edit: unnecessary raving from us

  in People who think Distortion is selfish Comment by Rulebreaker June 20, 2024

• @Oh_deer said:

  [winner does literally anything after winning]

  "stop bming me!"

  This has been our experience for the 7ish years here

  in Saying GG first, as the winner, is disrespectful Comment by Rulebreaker June 19, 2024

• @TheSubstitute said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742667#Comment_3742667

  Can you please be a reality warper? I'll share half the winnings from a lottery ticket if you can warp it into a winning one.

  Screw that, warping me a planet just for myself and friends

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 18, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  Which is why we asked for what you define as "Broken". What is your "acceptable level"? We gave our definition and each perk follows through with not being "broken". Some of those things listed after also doesn't show how something is "broken".

  over 220 odd perks exist in this game. About 20 dominate it. They are broken.

  Why isn't the one trying to get win streaks also bringing the best things? If the one running the best things still sucks and still wins, how good was the one trying to get the win streak really? Playing nurse doesn't guarantee a win, the nurse has to actually be better than the survivors to win. Isn't you losing on a map due to either the map being unbalanced or the survivors being better? Perks are suppose to help the player, in this situation pain res is doing its job and helping you.

  The people doing streaks are bringing the best things and going on ridiculous streaks and then are only losing to someone bringing the equivalent to the other side you need the best stuff to beat the best stuff even 4 strong players with mediocre stuff struggle that's the point I was making I think you missed it. It flew over your head in an attempt to question how good i am at the game. The general point is it's very easy to beat players of your skill level with good stuff if they don't bring the equivalent. Out perking someone (including bringing items offering ect) is very easy in dbd. Perks are a part of it but im just making that point out here…

  And thats your opinion. Your welcome to it, but as one of us stated before: Whats broken for you is not broken for me and whats broken for me is not broken for senior bacon which one turn may not be broken for whomever is next on the list. 

  Saying "that your opinion" doesn't change reality and you are not even expressing yours you are just inferring what yours is not justifying it dismissing mine then moving on. Say why they are not broken I keep saying why they are that's what this whole thread is ive even given individual reasons up the thread although they may not be in my replies to you. I remember saying why i think the exhaustion perks are broken. I've mentioned how playing with pain res lets me claw back games earlier.

  which disproves this

  And NONE of the above shows how any perk (which is what your original topic is about) is "broken". The closest is the pain res helping you but you coulda made a comeback any number of ways as far as we know, especially since you have to earn pain res procs.

  We're assuming this is for us yes?

  over 220 odd perks exist in this game. About 20 dominate it. They are broken.

  So your definition of "broken" is a good perk. That's how we are reading this. If its not the case, your going to have to actually elaborate with words

  The people doing streaks are bringing the best things and going on ridiculous streaks and then are only losing to someone bringing the equivalent to the other side you need the best stuff to beat the best stuff even 4 strong players with mediocre stuff struggle that's the point I was making I think you missed it. It flew over your head in an attempt to question how good i am at the game. The general point is it's very easy to beat players of your skill level with good stuff if they don't bring the equivalent. Out perking someone (including bringing items offering ect) is very easy in dbd. Perks are a part of it but im just making that point out here…

  They're bringing what they think is best. Which in turn could be countered and rendered moot by something not considered the best by the others. You don't need to bring the best things to beat the best things. Its hard but doable. And when you make comments like:

  In a lot of close games I know I would likely win on a better map I lose due to a map offering.

  A lot of game I should lose I win due to my perks when pain res keeps me in a game that was spiraling out of control.

  Yes. We are going to question your ability since we have no proof other than your words.

  Saying "that your opinion" doesn't change reality and you are not even expressing yours you are just inferring what yours is not justifying it dismissing mine then moving on. Say why they are not broken I keep saying why they are that's what this whole thread is ive even given individual reasons up the thread although they may not be in my replies to you. I remember saying why i think the exhaustion perks are broken. I've mentioned how playing with pain res lets me claw back games earlier.

  How is it "reality" when "broken" is subjective? Do you and only you decide that? No.

  "Say why they are not broken I keep saying why they are that's what this whole thread is ive even given individual reasons up the thread although they may not be in my replies to you."

  We did. In that long arsed list. Wana see it again? Maybe the summary if you don't feel like reading it through?

  @Rulebreaker said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742709#Comment_3742709

  We're going to state right off the bat that your standards for mid and ours are very different but we're going to put that aside and give an explanation on how we see each of those 12 (6 survivor and 6 killer perks) as not "broken" (and we would now like a definition of "broken" please. For us it's: Something that's extremely overwhelming for normally competent (not new, not competitive) players, extreme effects that are also uncountable, or something that literally breaks the game). If you want to see them they're below 👇. If you want the short sloppy summary, they each have some form of condition, counter, or drawback for their effects.

  Survivor

  Windows: it gives information on pallets and windows. That's it. It can be countered by blindness and doesn't save people in bad hands. Surprise a survivor, corral them, or burn everything Abit at a time to make the info pointless. Its decent, good, not "broken"

  Lithe: Sprint burst after vaulting. It's a once per chase (unless the killer majorly screwed up) thing and does not work while exhausted (which there are various ways to cause) and if they don't have anything to vault and works poorly when vaulting from a high place. As before, good not "broken"

  Resilience: Ok bonuses to various attributes while injured. Risk and reward, your now easier to catch if you want to keep using the bonuses. Fair to us and not "broken".

  Otr: 80 seconds of conditional endurance and stealth effect. Conditional being the focus as it turns off if they progress the game or (more than likely to happen) get hit. Ohh and it costs a hook state and turns off at endgame. Not "broken" to us.

  DS: Conditional get out of grasp free card. As above, they can't progress the game, costs a hook state, and off at endgame. Annoying when people try to weaponize it but not "broken".

  Distortion: Token based counter to aura reading and when it goes off you can learn what aura reading the killer has and it hides scratch marks. Does nothing if the killer doesn't use aura reading, making it practically dead in the water in that condition nor does it counter killer instinct. Can run out (admittedly with effort) and rarely does anything in chase. Good, not "broken".

  Killer

  Deadlock: blocks the gen with the most progress passively when a gen is finished and you know which one. You can't choose which gen, when it goes off, you lost a gen, you can't regress the gen you most likely need to, and another gen could pop anyway. Ok, but not "broken".

  Grim Embrace: 12 sec (we think) block after hooking a survivor for the first time, and upon hooking all 4 once get a 40 sec block and some aura reading on the obsession. You need to find each survivor and hook them to get value and only get full value when you don't hook the obsession last for procing. Its annoying to us but we ain't gonna call that "broken".

  Surge: upon downing a survivor with a basic hit, explode nearby gens. Does not work with many powers, can chew through available regression events of not careful, and you need to fight the survivors of you want to decide where you want to proc it. Good, not amazing, not "broken".

  Pop: Catch and hook a survivor for the limited time ability to kick a chunk off a gens progress. Seems balanced to us as your rewarded for successfully doing your mission and actually need to go and get to the gen you want to regress before it pops. Definitely doesn't fit "broken".

  Pain res: Hook a survivor for the first time on a special hook to kick a chunk off the gen with the most progress. As an additional bonus they scream. Like pop your rewarded for doing your job and get bonuses for going out of your way for the other requirements (fresh special hooks). It also only works 4 times and you can't pick the gen meaning you can potentially waste a valuable charge. Same as before, not "broken".

  Lethal: Aura reading at the start and an extension on all aura reading. Good for fast killers and aura builds, which is less gen regression. Also does not help in chase without help. Finally, all parts of it are countered if survivors bring distortion (with the exception of that you know if people brought it). Don't think it "broken".

  For those who have read through the whole thing, we Rulebreakers thank you for your time and plz never condone advertising.

  We don't see "broken" from our definition. If going by your definition then sure, they're good perks and must be "broken". But thats by your metric, not ours. Its not reality, its not law, its your opinion and your definition. We're gave reasons why we don't think they're broken, you gave reasons why you think they're broken. Strange how its still not reality that they're broken to everyone.

  Sure you mentioned why you think exhaustion perks are busted, we see it (now that we bothered to look in your replies to others where we wouldn't normally look)

  @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742810#Comment_3742810

  Exhaustion perks extend chases for free and sprint burst enables you to do more than any other perk in the game with it.

  Its really that simple yes you can make gens go faster or heal faster but with Sprint Burst you buy your team at minimum a fixed amount of time to do anything and it gives you more of a choice of what you can use on the map every time it used, it is often the difference between getting to play strong tile or loops vs weaker tiles or loops it also lets you link things you otherwise would not 99d it also just lets you traverse the map faster generally. It is probably the best perk in the game in the correct hands.

  Lithe buys time and lets you link unless windows to other tiles and gives you lots distance to work with mid chase.

  Every strong build in the game if you can have an exhaustion perk in, you do. they are the best perks in the game and its why exhaustion as a status effect exists. The fact a perk like languid touch exists and its sole purpose is to apply a status effect that prevents the activation of these perks is mental, all it does is deny the best perks in the game if you set off a crow and that puts it ahead of a fair few of the perks in this game.

  They are too strong and leave every other survivor perk in the dust.

  And we gotta say we disagree. Does Sprint Burst save you from an ambush? Save your teammate from being chased and killed? What it does is buy a few extra seconds if the killer decides to chase you and can't be run with any other exhaustion perk (and doesn't work while exhausted, of which theres a variety of flavors to inflict it).

  Lithe is again "Sprint burst after vaulting. It's a once per chase (unless the killer majorly screwed up) thing and does not work while exhausted (which there are various ways to cause) and if they don't have anything to vault and works poorly when vaulting from a high place. As before, good not "broken"" (This was copied from the list. See how we explained why we don't think its "broken"?)

  which disproves this

  And NONE of the above shows how any perk (which is what your original topic is about) is "broken". The closest is the pain res helping you but you coulda made a comeback any number of ways as far as we know, especially since you have to earn pain res procs.

  You know what, sure. You disproved it in answering another and we missed it. You explained why you think they're broken. So we got a game. Can you disprove our reasons why we think the listed perks are not broken? Can you explain it so we have no other choice but to accept "reality". It has to show "broken" though, not strong. Our definition is in the list but we'll post it here for clairity:

  Something that's extremely overwhelming for normally competent (not new, not competitive) players, extreme effects that are also uncountable, or something that literally breaks the game

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 18, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742816#Comment_3742816

  Describing each perk does not accurately display how impactful they are on the game for example.

  windows-It gives info on pallets and windows yes it does now how does that impact the game? You know what's used and what's not, you know what's spawned before you run an area and you are able to better plan out your chases.

  This can be done for every perk you have mentioned

  also, the only reason we have different views on what's broken is because we are willing to accept different levels of impact as acceptable. It was only recently a certain dbd youtuber said that he think experience is secondary to what you bring into a lobby (items offerings ect) and as long as the best perks, items, offerings and addons I'm inclined to agree because of stuff like-

  Almost a winstreaks ends with someone getting sniped with a a stack with the best stuff or a killer-playing nurse.

  In a lot of close games I know I would likely win on a better map I lose due to a map offering.

  A lot of game I should lose I win due to my perks when pain res keeps me in a game that was spiraling out of control.

  It feels very easy using the best stuff when others are not using the best stuff but the other way around it feels miserable unless the gap in hours between you and the other players is massive.

  Until that is not the case almost all the best stuff in this game is the best stuff because it is broken.

  And yet all the info in the world does nil if you can use it effectively. You know the closest pallet is to your left while everywhere else is effectively a deadzone, wheres the killer? Ohh surprise, coming from the left. Can't drop that single pallet without gettin hit, cant make it to the next closest without gettin hit. Plan does not survive contact with the enemy. Scenarios like such can also be run for each perk mentioned.

  also, the only reason we have different views on what's broken is because we are willing to accept different levels of impact as acceptable.

  Which is why we asked for what you define as "Broken". What is your "acceptable level"? We gave our definition and each perk follows through with not being "broken". Some of those things listed after also doesn't show how something is "broken". For example:

  Almost a winstreaks ends with someone getting sniped with a a stack with the best stuff or a killer-playing nurse.

  In a lot of close games I know I would likely win on a better map I lose due to a map offering.

  A lot of game I should lose I win due to my perks when pain res keeps me in a game that was spiraling out of control.

  Why isn't the one trying to get win streaks also bringing the best things? If the one running the best things still sucks and still wins, how good was the one trying to get the win streak really? Playing nurse doesn't guarantee a win, the nurse has to actually be better than the survivors to win. Isn't you losing on a map due to either the map being unbalanced or the survivors being better? Perks are suppose to help the player, in this situation pain res is doing its job and helping you.

  And NONE of the above shows how any perk (which is what your original topic is about) is "broken". The closest is the pain res helping you but you coulda made a comeback any number of ways as far as we know, especially since you have to earn pain res procs.

  It feels very easy using the best stuff when others are not using the best stuff but the other way around it feels miserable unless the gap in hours between you and the other players is massive.

  And thats your opinion. Your welcome to it, but as one of us stated before: Whats broken for you is not broken for me and whats broken for me is not broken for senior bacon which one turn may not be broken for whomever is next on the list. To us none of the things listed are broken.

  Until that is not the case almost all the best stuff in this game is the best stuff because it is broken.

  And this here just makes us believe that you only think their "broken" cause they're good.

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 18, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742705#Comment_3742705

  The average suv perk when I think of truly mid off the top of my head is something like inner strength, dark theory, empathy

  The 3 top and bottom suv perks in that list (to show the best and worst without my inherent bias) is Windows, lithe, resilence or Otr, DS, distortion

  The average killer perk when I think of truly mid is off the top of my head something like Bitter murmur, Spies from the shadows or Deathbound

  The 3 top and bottom perks in this list (to show the best and worst by playrate without my inherent bias) are Deadlock, Grim embrace, surge or Pop, pain res and lethal

  They are broken

  We're going to state right off the bat that your standards for mid and ours are very different but we're going to put that aside and give an explanation on how we see each of those 12 (6 survivor and 6 killer perks) as not "broken" (and we would now like a definition of "broken" please. For us it's: Something that's extremely overwhelming for normally competent (not new, not competitive) players, extreme effects that are also uncountable, or something that literally breaks the game). If you want to see them they're below 👇. If you want the short sloppy summary, they each have some form of condition, counter, or drawback for their effects.

  Survivor

  Windows: it gives information on pallets and windows. That's it. It can be countered by blindness and doesn't save people in bad hands. Surprise a survivor, corral them, or burn everything Abit at a time to make the info pointless. Its decent, good, not "broken"

  Lithe: Sprint burst after vaulting. It's a once per chase (unless the killer majorly screwed up) thing and does not work while exhausted (which there are various ways to cause) and if they don't have anything to vault and works poorly when vaulting from a high place. As before, good not "broken"

  Resilience: Ok bonuses to various attributes while injured. Risk and reward, your now easier to catch if you want to keep using the bonuses. Fair to us and not "broken".

  Otr: 80 seconds of conditional endurance and stealth effect. Conditional being the focus as it turns off if they progress the game or (more than likely to happen) get hit. Ohh and it costs a hook state and turns off at endgame. Not "broken" to us.

  DS: Conditional get out of grasp free card. As above, they can't progress the game, costs a hook state, and off at endgame. Annoying when people try to weaponize it but not "broken".

  Distortion: Token based counter to aura reading and when it goes off you can learn what aura reading the killer has and it hides scratch marks. Does nothing if the killer doesn't use aura reading, making it practically dead in the water in that condition nor does it counter killer instinct. Can run out (admittedly with effort) and rarely does anything in chase. Good, not "broken".

  Killer

  Deadlock: blocks the gen with the most progress passively when a gen is finished and you know which one. You can't choose which gen, when it goes off, you lost a gen, you can't regress the gen you most likely need to, and another gen could pop anyway. Ok, but not "broken".

  Grim Embrace: 12 sec (we think) block after hooking a survivor for the first time, and upon hooking all 4 once get a 40 sec block and some aura reading on the obsession. You need to find each survivor and hook them to get value and only get full value when you don't hook the obsession last for procing. Its annoying to us but we ain't gonna call that "broken".

  Surge: upon downing a survivor with a basic hit, explode nearby gens. Does not work with many powers, can chew through available regression events of not careful, and you need to fight the survivors of you want to decide where you want to proc it. Good, not amazing, not "broken".

  Pop: Catch and hook a survivor for the limited time ability to kick a chunk off a gens progress. Seems balanced to us as your rewarded for successfully doing your mission and actually need to go and get to the gen you want to regress before it pops. Definitely doesn't fit "broken".

  Pain res: Hook a survivor for the first time on a special hook to kick a chunk off the gen with the most progress. As an additional bonus they scream. Like pop your rewarded for doing your job and get bonuses for going out of your way for the other requirements (fresh special hooks). It also only works 4 times and you can't pick the gen meaning you can potentially waste a valuable charge. Same as before, not "broken".

  Lethal: Aura reading at the start and an extension on all aura reading. Good for fast killers and aura builds, which is less gen regression. Also does not help in chase without help. Finally, all parts of it are countered if survivors bring distortion (with the exception of that you know if people brought it). Don't think it "broken".

  For those who have read through the whole thing, we Rulebreakers thank you for your time and plz never condone advertising.

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• Would definitely like an add on for that. My instincts keep trying to tell me to hit them directly instead of the dirt.

  in Unknown's UVX should explode on direct hits Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742674#Comment_3742674

  I think almost every perk there needs a Nerf maybe except bamboozle, deja vu, BBQ, and Dead hard

  Although in principle I don't think progression perks are good for the game, bamboozle's use rate I think is tied to killers and Dead hard idk what other strings could be attached to that perk. BBQ I think is naturally getting weaker and will continue to do so as map sizes shrink if the current trend continues the 40m requirement has stayed the same so idk how id change it it has a simple condition and drawback.

  Almost every over perk there is used because they are the best perks and I don't like how for years many have gone untouched.

  1 by 1

  suv perks first

  1. OTR does not need to hide you aura for 80 seconds
  2. DS never needed 4 seconds it was still better than 90% of the games perks at 3
  3. Distortion i have a similar opinion to most of the recent posts gut it.
  4. Sprint burst has been the best exhaustion perk in the game for years now and it need to not only be brought in line with other perk but even just other exhaustion perks
  5. Adrenaline is a top tier perk after all its buff if it was just a free healthstate at the endgame it would still be good so it needs more done imo
  6. Resilience is one of the best suv perks in the game but most people don't see the value of 9% faster vaults.
  7. Lithe exhaustion perk that needs to be brought in line with regular perks.
  8. Windows is very powerful and give the best info in the game that you could have. It make bad players mid, mid players good, and good players better

  Killer perks

  1. Deadlock-Gen block
  2. Grim embrace-Gen block
  3. Surge-Regression is very good in 3-gen scenarios
  4. Nowhere to hide-Best Aura reading perk in the game and although i don't have a major issue with most aura perks i understand why we should bring them in line with each other
  5. Corrupt intervention-Slowdown
  6. Lethal pursuer- Was good enough without extending auras of other perks and now BHVR needs to concern themselves with with what other perks may do it lethal if they release a perk that shows a long aura reading time
  7. Pop- Still cracked and not just out of line with killer perks in general but also other regression perks like eruption (kinda like how i see sprint burst)
  8. Pain res- Exact same as pop

  Edit-to finish typeing this i started cutting down on words in the killer perks section

  edit 2 wrote 30 for otr aura instead of 80

  So now we got a question: Are any of these perks "broken" or do you just not like them?

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• @[Deleted User] said:

  How about we just nerf the top 10 most picked perks for each side??

  https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0ILZABAWK9OS/image.png

  Ohh itd be like chaos mode again, yes please

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• Sadly it probably won't end as you expect. Even if you can't face the same killer twice in a row (which would jack up wait times) it would still end up being something like blight Wesker billy Wesker blight Billy Wesker etc.

  We're going to ignore the part of you throwing a tantrum against a specific killer.

  in There should be an option to block at least 1 Killer from the roster. Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• @Unusedkillername said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742645#Comment_3742645

  Yes, they are the obviously 3 broken perks or types of perks Surviver have. The title of this thread was originally going to be "Stop defending obviously broken things." its why I mentioned harder killers being strong and easier killers being weak halfway into the post despite it being about perk but I decided to change it.

  They are the "bingo card" because they are so clear of everything else in the survivor arsenal but broken stuff is fine by you because you use them.

  You are the types of players the bottom of this post is aimed at.

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742647#Comment_3742647

  What's strong is strong you can try and say dark theory is op and that is your right. You would be wrong.

  You are not a reality warper whats broken is broken and whats weak is weak.

  Doesn't that apply to you? Are you a reality warper? If so please warp reality so people stop complaining about every little thing.

  On a more serious note, who decides what's broken? I don't think pop is broken before or after nerfs. Don't think pain res or grim embrace is either. Windows? Nope. Distortion? Same answer. Do you think they're broken? That's fine but you can't force anyone else to think that.

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• We see this pretty often. On the one claw it feels bad to pick on the same one even if it's by chance, on the other Everytime we've been consciously nice it has bit us on the tail and survivors have been actively trying to beat the kindness out of us lately.

  in Lobbies where one person doesn't belong Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• @100PercentBPMain said:

  Woo, Distortion and Exhaustion that's almost a Bingo!

  Wait, what bingo card are you using? Are we cheating if we got bingo already?

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• Whats broken for you is not broken for me and whats broken for me is not broken for senior bacon which one turn may not be broken for whomever is next on the list

  in Stop defending broken perks. Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• Dwight fighter or wizard or bard (anything really)

  Claudette alchemist or cleric

  David fighter

  Nea rogue

  Laurie monk or fighter

  Ash fighter or barbarian

  Leon rogue or ranger

  Ellen artificer

  in dbd survivors in dnd Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• Ya know, think we've seen a post like this 2 years ago…yet it still runs.

  in DBD within the next two years Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• @burt0r said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742427#Comment_3742427

  Well, if you don't want to address anyone bette use the indirect "one/someone" instead of the easily misunderstood "you". (Something I am also guilty of.)

  Also please talk don't about millennium as if we would know what the custom standard was beyond the last 100 years in general and 30-50 years for gaming. It comes across as strange.

  Also, also from my pov it comes across as unempathetic to not take into consideration the feeling of your opponent. I would bet you money that for example the Brazilian soccer players that lost 7:1 a few years ago didn't want to hear ANYTHING from the Germans that stomped them.

  Getting beaten hard is frustrating and nothing ones opponent says will help with that, except if that opponent is a close friend or something. Especially int he moment immediately after the defeat.

  So taking your opponents feeling into account is more important to me than to give the image of sportsmanship and "force" it on others.

  And lastly this whole thread is about one-sided stomps and toxic matches which op specified in their third paragraph.

  Not close matches that could go either way. Those are fun and GG's from either side are valid.

  Valid is completely subjective here. Some may not like it, but many use "gg" as a "valid" form to show sportsmanship. Beginning to feel old here as when I played games with others gg was used to be respectful, now everyone sees it as an insult.

  in Saying GG first, as the winner, is disrespectful Comment by Rulebreaker June 17, 2024

• @ChronoSeth said:

  No killer should be able to tunnel and remove a player from the event simply because they brought a mori.

  ….if the killer is tunneling, wouldn't that remove the survivor anyway?

  in Disable Memento Moris on Events. Comment by Rulebreaker June 16, 2024

• Neat trick

  in You can overjump that pipe on The Game Comment by Rulebreaker June 14, 2024

• @HerInfernalMajesty said:

  You’re all insane.

  And it makes life so much more flavorful

  in How Many Achievements Do You Have? Comment by Rulebreaker June 14, 2024

• @HexHuntressThighs said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739841#Comment_3739841

  TAKE THAT PERK OFF RIGHT NOW!!!

  Relax, its not Object, no ones to be tossed on a hook because of it 🎶

  in The Great Otzdarva Distortion Debate! Comment by Rulebreaker June 13, 2024

• Happy Birthday

  in Dbd Dev appreciation thread Comment by Rulebreaker June 13, 2024

• We used to have all till Wesker. Currently we're each missing around 4 each.

  in How Many Achievements Do You Have? Comment by Rulebreaker June 13, 2024

• Depends on the situation. Your examples would probably be a solid 7-8. Like it's a game, your already gonna lose no matter what, your just going to be spiteful? (Assuming you weren't an §€¥ first) That said those types aren't worth remembering so it's kinda a flip them off, deconstruct them, forget them, and move on feeling towards them.

  in On a scale of 1-10 how bad are people who purposefully deny achievements. (10 being worst) Comment by Rulebreaker June 13, 2024

• We are genuinely curious: why do you consider the listed perks above "braindead"? And definition of you could please.

  in DBDs current state :/ Comment by Rulebreaker June 12, 2024

• The only time we've seen that happen is if another survivor is nearby. Was there?

  in Unhooking yourself freely from face campers. I think this is becoming a problem a lot. Comment by Rulebreaker June 12, 2024

• @bakedpot8oesbro said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738171#Comment_3738171

  sure, it’s not like i’ve played the game for years and developed my own opinion based on my own experiences. go play a game with the recent killers and killers with recent reworks and tell me it is a challenge. you really think someone with over 5000 hours gets matched with incompetent survivors? and that i’ve never actually played killer? that’s crazy if i do say so myself. i’m not talking about playing trapless trapper, or pig. i’m talking about where dbd is headed and has been heading since ~~~ knight and skull merchants release. just brainless gaming, icl.

  Well there's a very easy way to prove such points. Show everyone some of you playing killer. Heck to prove you've been playing for years show the earliest achievement you have. At this point it's your opinion vs everyone else's opinions.

  in DBDs current state :/ Comment by Rulebreaker June 11, 2024