Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@RhysVMT said:
cos theres zero.
The killer performs the arduous task of... opening a locker, and gains info on where everyone is inside his or her terror radius. Incredible hard work by the killer player. How is this inbred disgusting perk allowed to exist at all and hasn't been killswitched yet
Not everything needs counterplay, especially in a 1v4. By definition the 1 should be stronger than each individual 4.
Now, to put it this way, what about the perk is too strong for you? How is it any better than running lethal + bbq or any other aura reading? which is far far more reliable?
You have to spend time opening a locker, something most killers don't want to do, then you make the survivors scream when they enter your terror radius for the next 30 seconds. But what does a scream get you? It tells you their rough location, but you get their location when you are 32 meters away from them assuming average terror radius. So, survivors walk at a speed of 2.26 m/s, average killer is 4.6 m/s. That means, even if the killer could make a beeline straight line directly to the survivor, it will take them 7 seconds to move 32 meters. During that time the survivor can move almost 16 meters. HALF A TERROR RADIUS.
And even then, the information is only useful for a few seconds, BECAUSE it is a scream and not aura reading. Generally it gives you a rough idea of where survivors are, but you aren't going to be chasing multiple survivors, you are picking one.
Then lastly, the cooldown on it is very long. People think "oh it has a 30 second cooldown" which is not completely correct. You use it, then it lasts for 30 seconds, then AFTER that it has a 30 second cooldown. This means that it has a full minute between uses.
Put it another way, ultimate weapon is literally just part of the doctor's power. It is just a worse static blast in a perk without the madness. Is doctor suddenly a massively overpowered killer? There are far far better perks and combinations of perks that give much BETTER information than ultimate weapon.
I said it then
I'll say it now
I'll say it in the future when they inevitably nerf this perk due to crying about it
Ultimate weapon is not a good perk.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643366#Comment_3643366
i guess that could be his attention. He's having a little bit too much fun abusing in that vib for me
Him and aryun often do that. There was a video they did a while back with otz where they bullyed a demo into leaving and they laughed about it instead of realizing how miserable they were making the game for that player.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642831#Comment_3642831
All my friends quit DBD over a year ago because they were sick of toxic killers ruining the game for them. I've been playing solo since then. And no, I don't run boil over anymore and rarely use flashlights. Boil over rarely gives any return without the help of breakout from another player. Flashlights are mostly only effective if you time it when the killer picks someone up. Most killers just simply look up to avoid them.
If you want any sympathy, post an unedited entire match where a killer does this so we can see why.
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@hermitkermit said:
I'm very excited for the upcoming event! It think it will be a fun exciting challenge and it's refreshing to have something so different. This made me wonder if this might be a good opportunity to really gage an understanding for both killer and survivor when nothing but skill or luck is involved. No perks to rely on, no add-ons. Just the killers power and the survivors resourcefulness (items from chests and map sense etc.) I think this will be a great way to understand what both sides are capable of without anything else to "carry" them through. Anyone else thinking this could bring some insight? Nobody can blame crutch perks so it will be interesting to see how it plays out for both sides! Exciting and curious to what I can learn from it, as well as others in the community.
In a world with 0 perks, survivors win every time. Unless you are talking about the "average" solo queue survivor experience. There really isn't any debate on this. At the highest levels, there are a reason every tournament has special rules and scoring systems and handicaps in place (against the survivors) because without them survivors win with 3-4 escapes every game.
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@KateMain86 said:
Slugging is the next big problem they should solve. Survivors should be able to pick themselves up after so long if they are slugged and without the use of a perk or help from a player. Killers do this to be toxic. They ignore their objective to make sure your survivor experience is terrible. This only stops when they put effective deterrents in the game.
When are they gonna solve SWF getting 87 perks for free? Also killers don't do this to be toxic. I bet $20 you are running boil over and your teammates have flashlights, and then you wonder why you get slugged.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642270#Comment_3642270
Some of the fanatical SM mains will care a lot.
I've never seen people defend a failed concept so hard.
Now that 3 genning isn't really a thing anymore i'm confused why people still hate her. I think the problem with her is that she was too strong with 3 genning. But she is designed with a kit that is "build your own killer" Take a look at her addons, and you'll see that she's designed in a way (at least originally) to have addons change how she is played significantly. You could take addons that make you better in chase, some that give you aura reading, some that defend areas better, etc.
The point was her power is mostly a blank slate, and the addons change how she is played. I actually think that the "DESIGN" of that is exactly how every killer should be designed. The problem was the execution.
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@supersonic853 said:
"Its just a tech guys!" Whenever any survivor strat is found. Lol. They said they were already patching it though so i wouldnt be to fussed.
Source on them already talking about patching it?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641174#Comment_3641174
What?
Explain what you mean by that?
You're saying that we should be making balance decisions around people who aren't that good at the game, hence why DS needs buffs, despite the fact that DS is extremely popular at the highest levels and is in almost every single comp game.
So, it stands to reason that, if we want to balance around people who aren't good, we need to look at the kill rates. And what do the kill rates show us? That nurse is by far the absolute worst killer in the game, and significantly so. Often times a full 10% below the next highest killer.
So, when do we buff nurse?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641113#Comment_3641113
Oops, I missed this one, the forum's notifications are busted.
Right! To tackle this: DS is currently weak but kinda acceptable if you are very skilled and RNG breaks in your favour regarding map resources. If either of those two requirements aren't met, DS almost does nothing. This would be bad if DS were a normal perk you just wanted to get value out of reliably, but it's especially bad for a perk that is designed to counter a currently problematic tactic.
Even setting aside that anti-tunnel should just work without expecting you to be a pro, and that it should work without requiring you to be in a strong structure already, I'm gonna once again point to the core question: Is DS potent enough to make killers rethink the decision to tunnel someone before they do it?
Ok, so when are we buffing nurse?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641026#Comment_3641026
Man, where to start. I'll answer the question first, then tackle whether the question is relevant.
So, the answer is probably perk restrictions. Comp teams are gonna expect to see some tunnelling attempts, but they can't all run the strongest possible tools against that, so someone has to run DS. That's a guess, I'll admit, but it seems like the most likely answer.
Though, it should be acknowledged that DS is kinda-sorta okay if you're a really good looper and you go down in a strong area, something a comp team is going to have much more control over because comp matches are a completely different game to regular DBD matches.
Now, to tackle the relevance of the question. Does it matter either way? It really doesn't address the actual question I laid out, which I'll repeat: Do killers currently feel that DS is potent enough to rethink attempting to tunnel someone?
That's the question. How do comp games have any bearing on it?
So, DS is ok, as long as you are good at the game, but if you aren't, its fine. So we should be making balance decisions around players who aren't good at the game as opposed to the ones who are?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641013#Comment_3641013
There's some important context missing from this rundown, though.
We had it at five seconds (plus the Conspicuous Actions nerf) for a while, and that was the healthiest the perk has ever been.
Now they've closed the loop on that promise, and the perk is bad + its place in the game is not as healthy.
So, it kinda doesn't matter? It doesn't matter that the original intent was such-and-such. Bringing that up obfuscates that the perk was good and healthy at five seconds, and now it isn't. There's an obvious benefit to buffing it this way - deterring tunnelling at least slightly more than it currently is - and there's no obvious downside. Why bother bringing up the original intent of the five second stun if it doesn't matter in this context?
If the perk is bad, then why is it that it is used in every single comp game?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641011#Comment_3641011
It's not about whether the survivor feels like they got value from the perk, though. Considering Decisive Strike's place as an anti-tunnel perk, the question should be this: Does the killer feel like the stun is enough of a punishment to reconsider tunnelling?
Right now, the answer is no. Five seconds is something that many believe would change that.
It always was 3 seconds back in the day, it was only ever increased to 5 seconds because enduring worked on it, making the stun 1.5 seconds and 100% completely useless at the time. So they buffed it to 5 seconds to deal with that and said they would change it back to 3 seconds when enduring was changed to only work on pallets. And what happened? Enduring was changed to only work on pallets, and they just never reverted the buff to DS.
Making it 3 seconds again, is closing the loop on a promise they made years ago for the perk.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640529#Comment_3640529
Matchmaking is also a wild beast. I just got out of a game where the survivors sent me to garden of joy, i was playing chucky, they had multiple adrenalines, sprint bursts, all of them immediately ran to the house. I made a single mistake in the first chase, so my first hit was delayed, caught back up, landed a hit, bam, 3 gens gone. At that point they kept abusing the OP house and i ended that game with 1 hook and 4 escapes.
The match right after? A match of what i call "normal" survivors, where they were super inefficient, mindgaming themselves, running into me etc.
I recorded both matches, unfortunately the 1st one OBS wasn't working right so i lost the footage for it when i hit "stop recording" it just never saved the file. For the second match i recorded it, i'm going to annotate it, analyze it and go over it. Then i'm going to keep playing until i get another one of those 1st ones, and do the same for that match. You'll see the difference.
EDIT: this next match i'm sitting in queue for has 3 p100s, so maybe it will be like the first, although prestige is mostly meaningless it increases the chances of them being better than at least the last match i just played.
EDIT 2: Unfortunately someone was afk for the beginning of the game, so i wouldn't really count it. We'll see how the next one plays out.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640916#Comment_3640916
Yeahhhh, that's just the way it goes, unfortunately.
I JUST HAD IT. I had the match, where i felt like i did everything right, outside of 1 or 2 micro mistakes, that made it so i ended the game with 3 hooks and a 4 escape and they weren't even a SWF, so its not "just coms" that does this, and it happened right after a match where i felt i played horribly, and the survivors barely finished 3 gens before i killed 3 and 1 got hatch.
I'm going to go over these videos now, and annotate them with what i was thinking at the time, and what i feel happened, and show you the difference, people need to see the difference between these "normal" survivors, and these teams that play really well, and hopefully this will help people understand that there are 2 different games being played here. I'll make a new thread for it.
Because when i post on these forums talking about how there are only 2 viable killers, you'll see exactly why in this video. Because i made every correct decision given the information i had, and any other decision i would have made would have led to the exact same outcome. With only a single mistake, which, by the time that happened the survivors already basically won anyway. And on top of that this wasn't even a full SWF, potentially a pair, but the point stands that you don't need a SWF to do what you will see in these videos.
Hopefully i can post later tonight, but please look out for the thread.
EDIT: Playing back the footage, and i still believe i made 90-95% correct decisions. And against a team of "normal" survivors this match would have been a complete stomp for me like the previous match i played. This is going to be good.
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wrong thread.
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@WeaverReaver42 said:
There's always going to be a 'meta' build. People in this community like to optimize the fun out of the game for the other side. that's how it's always been. That being said there are steps you can take to weaken and counter this build, which is more than can be said for some other 'meta' builds that have come up
(before I get into this, I will say- grim embrace should have a caveat where it only works if all survivors are still alive. I think that would make sure it can't be used with tunneling to guarantee a good position, unfortunately that isn't a thing yet so we will have to make do).
Grim Embrace- This perk incentivizes spreading hooks, this functionally means they are in a win win scenario. They either A: get to tunnel someone out of the game along with the delay of the generator blocking. or B: Get intermittent slowdown as they wittle away at your hook states. Of the two, the latter is your better option. If possible, you want to prevent the killer from getting hooks on 'fresh' survivors as much as possible. However this shouldn't come at the cost of a survivor's life. Numbers are your biggest advantage and you need to work to keep that advantage at any cost. The more killers have to work to block the generators, the more time you have to repair them. This doesn't get into the fact that grim embrace is a temporary tool. Once all survivors are hooked and the effect ends, that perk does nothing, and you can worry about the other perks much more. As great as getting rid of it early sounds, this would come at the cost of hook states you need to protect you for when things get dicey. It's best to deny them the delay as much as reasonable without getting yourself killed.
SH:PR- A much simpler solution here: sabo the hooks. I know being pigeon holed into a playstyle isn't fun, but if they are going meta, you need to bring a counter. If you sabo the scourge hooks, then they are left without a lot of regression. Can they eventually get value from it later? sure. But preventing it from being on their terms as much as possible will make life inconvenient for them. If you do it right, you might even prevent a hook state, which is its own reward.
DMS- This is also not too difficult of a solution. Simply put: avoid or commit. If you are on a gen, you have to accept your going to be working on that gen for the next 30 seconds. This will deny the killer information on which gen is being worked on (assuming they don't already know), as well allowing you progress that would be denied had you left to unhook or panicked and left. If you aren't on a gen, it might be a good option to avoid starting one. You might get interrupted which means that gen is blocked until the 30 seconds are up. If you do think starting a gen is a bad idea, it would be a good idea to either prevent anyone else from getting downed/scourge hooked (see the previous perk advice) or at least get the hooked survivor off so they can heal and help with gens again.
Now, this isn't a guaranteed strat to win, and solo q probably won't be able to pull these things off. But neither of those were ever going to be the case. The point is, this build IS counterable. And if you know what you're doing, you can easily get a 4 man out. This build is annoying, yes. But there's plenty you can do to stop a killer in their tracks if you plan and play accordingly.
Grim embrace doesn't need that change though, because by design the perk doesn't work if you tunnel.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640559#Comment_3640559
It's pretty well known that Tru3 sweats a lot and takes the game very seriously.
Scott doesn't do that, hence his MMR probably isn't as high. He also plays in a different region at a different time.
Yeah, i mentioned that in one of my other posts. But Matchmaking is wild, i can have 1 game where i go against a sweat squad, full meta perks, full loadout, sending me to garden of joy and i get 1 hook. But then my next match is a 5 gen stomp because the survivors just refuse to do gens for some reason.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640390#Comment_3640390
Any proof of your conspiracy?
Matchmaking is also a wild beast. I just got out of a game where the survivors sent me to garden of joy, i was playing chucky, they had multiple adrenalines, sprint bursts, all of them immediately ran to the house. I made a single mistake in the first chase, so my first hit was delayed, caught back up, landed a hit, bam, 3 gens gone. At that point they kept abusing the OP house and i ended that game with 1 hook and 4 escapes.
The match right after? A match of what i call "normal" survivors, where they were super inefficient, mindgaming themselves, running into me etc.
I recorded both matches, unfortunately the 1st one OBS wasn't working right so i lost the footage for it when i hit "stop recording" it just never saved the file. For the second match i recorded it, i'm going to annotate it, analyze it and go over it. Then i'm going to keep playing until i get another one of those 1st ones, and do the same for that match. You'll see the difference.
EDIT: this next match i'm sitting in queue for has 3 p100s, so maybe it will be like the first, although prestige is mostly meaningless it increases the chances of them being better than at least the last match i just played.
EDIT 2: Unfortunately someone was afk for the beginning of the game, so i wouldn't really count it. We'll see how the next one plays out.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640390#Comment_3640390
Any proof of your conspiracy?
I would say this person is digging too deep. But it is true, if you watch someone like tru3ta1ent (yes i know he complains a lot) there really is something to the fact that the survivors he plays against are usually really good. Then when you watch someone like scott jund, he can have the first chase go poorly, but doesn't lose 3 gens somehow.
You see what i'm getting at? Its not some deep conspiracy, but something is there with matchmaking.
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@WaveyTrey said:
It’s a lot to read, but here is my take…
You’re beginning to catch on to something... The only reason those streamer killers win so much without using slowdowns and tunnel/proxy camp is because…
A.) They lower their MMR when they aren’t streaming. So they match with players less experienced…
B.) They have the ability to matchmake with who they want somehow. They’ll add a few random matchmake. Then if someone truly competitive enters they dodge the lobbies. As they’ll get demolished on live. You’ll see in their lobbies the players will say “I was X survivor”.
Remember, they’re sponsoring/advertising the game. So you think that the steamers wouldn’t get any perks, or privileges from doing that?
I began to think this only because I’ve watched them play. Yes. I’m not a top tier player. With just over 2k hours. The truth being I learned A LOT just from watching the “best” players like Tru3 and Tofu; However, as I began to watch them CLOSELY…
The way that survivors play against them was never my experience after 2k hours. Against these streamer killers the survivors often make the dumbest plays. They don’t spin, or do anything to make the attacks miss. Survivors run in straight lines, not from pallet to pallet. They don’t abuse second chance perks. They fail the flashlight even when it was easy.
I’ve also seen all these big streamers chase a single survivor for over a minute many times. Whenever they did not a single generator would pop. They also take their sweet time to pickup, and hook. All while explaining something to the viewers.
If their hours and their MMR is as high as they claim… Situations like that shouldn’t happen so often... Everything the players do should be executed perfectly. A single mess up would cost the match. After 2k if I fail to execute, or did something haphazardly at least 3 survivors will escape.
Every time I chase a single survivor the rest will immediately double up on heals or gens. I repeat, only after 2k hours. The survivors are often well coordinated, and prepared. With or without comms. So I can only imagine 4k, 6k, 8k, 10k hours!!
I realized the best strategy is finding who is the weakest runner, and eliminating that player immediately before 3 generators are done. Even if it means tunneling them out. Once the players are reduced to 3 I don’t have to do anything “dirty” anymore.
Why? If 2 gens remain and there are 4 survivors alive I lose. Almost 100% of the time.
So I ask you all to watch them CLOSELY. There’s a reason viewers scream “PAID ACTORS!!”. It’s because sometimes it’s true!
You know i was just toying around with the options menu and realized that there is a "matchmaking delay" that streamers can use to prevent harassment. I wonder if playing with that setting on does something to the matchmaking.
I'll do an experiment this weekend where i play 10 games with it on, and 10 off and compare results.
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@WaveyTrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640427#Comment_3640427
Yes. We should begin comparing our experiences playing DBD. As opposed to just focusing on hours and the supposed MMR. Since it all varies after a certain amount of time playing any game.
After I repeatedly saw “PAID ACTORS” in the chat boxes of big streamers I began to wonder if it was true. Somewhere along the line I now believe that it is true. Not every single time as that would be too obvious.
There’s no way a low/mid tier killer will defeat everyone consistently with no slowdowns after like 5K hours. While chasing anyone for more than 30 seconds? They absolutely will not 4k. Gens should’ve been slammed unless the players deliberately lose on purpose. They’re doing challenges in the tombs, or they’re messing around.
Yeah, its super obvious to me in the first chase what kind of match i'm dealing with. And yeah, obviously i get the megheads as well, but sometimes...
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640390#Comment_3640390
Or... hear me out
Matchmaking is and always has been dog. No streamer is going to spend hours of their time afking off stream just to lower a number they cant see. Most of my games are 3-4ks even when I do play with the most random builds, and upon looking at peoples profiles a lot of them don't even reach 1k hours, while I myself have over 6k.
The strategy you mentioned is nothing new and is a perfect ideal scenario which only really works against inexperienced groups since, again, its a perfect scenario.
2 gens remaining and all 4 of them being alive is what happens a large majority of the time. Just because they're all alive doesn't mean you haven't depleted their resources and have gotten hooks in between. If you haven't done either, then you kind of deserve to lose at that point since a bunch of mistakes have brought you to that point.
I think it is more of combination of, matchmaking is horrible, and time of day/region.
For example, i live on the west coast of U.S. if i play around 7 pm - 2 am, i will win probably 95% of my games as killer, easily, going against these, what i call, "normal" survivors.
But i i play during say, the morning, or my lunch break, around 8 am - 12 pm? I get these crazy good top tier godly survivors where there is no weak link. Even if they play solo queue, they just are hella efficient and i lose 3 gens in the first chase basically guaranteed. Or, i break chase and then i lose the 3 gens slightly slower, but i end up with no hooks.
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@Gastongard said:
You can look for AgustinaUnaplay8 on twitch or youtube, this guy has the rule of no camping or tunelling and he wins most of his matches, some of them against really strong teams/swf. Camping or tunelling is not necessary if you know how to manage the time, chases and gens.
But also, if you expect to win every game you play, then you need to lower your expectations, because if killers could win every match then who would play as survivor? It would be more miserable than, which is something to say the least.
If we take the Killer-Survivor ratio that BHVR published, which is on 60-40% on killers favour, then if you win 6 out of 10 matches you are doing more than fine. Loosing is not bad, I dont understand why every killer sweats their asses off to win just one match, you wont get any money for wining, in fact you are playing just a videogame, and not even a good one. And before anyone says "survis tunnels gen" then tell this devs to add a second objective, this is the only thing they can do to make the match progress.
Dunno if you read the full OP, but i have played around 15 matches today now playing "nice" and won 2 of them, and 1 of them was because someone immediately DCed as soon as they got downed.
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@WaveyTrey said:
It’s a lot to read, but here is my take…
You’re beginning to catch on to something... The only reason those streamer killers win so much without using slowdowns and tunnel/proxy camp is because…
A.) They lower their MMR when they aren’t streaming. So they match with players less experienced…
B.) They have the ability to matchmake with who they want somehow. They’ll add a few random matchmake. Then if someone truly competitive enters they dodge the lobbies. As they’ll get demolished on live. You’ll see in their lobbies the players will say “I was X survivor”.
Remember, they’re sponsoring/advertising the game. So you think that the steamers wouldn’t get any perks, or privileges from doing that?
I began to think this only because I’ve watched them play. Yes. I’m not a top tier player. With just over 2k hours. The truth being I learned A LOT just from watching the “best” players like Tru3 and Tofu; However, as I began to watch them CLOSELY…
The way that survivors play against them was never my experience after 2k hours. Against these streamer killers the survivors often make the dumbest plays. They don’t spin, or do anything to make the attacks miss. Survivors run in straight lines, not from pallet to pallet. They don’t abuse second chance perks. They fail the flashlight even when it was easy.
I’ve also seen all these big streamers chase a single survivor for over a minute many times. Whenever they did not a single generator would pop. They also take their sweet time to pickup, and hook. All while explaining something to the viewers.
If their hours and their MMR is as high as they claim… Situations like that shouldn’t happen so often... Everything the players do should be executed perfectly. A single mess up would cost the match. After 2k if I fail to execute, or did something haphazardly at least 3 survivors will escape.
Every time I chase a single survivor the rest will immediately double up on heals or gens. I repeat, only after 2k hours. The survivors are often well coordinated, and prepared. With or without comms. So I can only imagine 4k, 6k, 8k, 10k hours!!
I realized the best strategy is finding who is the weakest runner, and eliminating that player immediately before 3 generators are done. Even if it means tunneling them out. Once the players are reduced to 3 I don’t have to do anything “dirty” anymore.
Why? If 2 gens remain and there are 4 survivors alive I lose. Almost 100% of the time.
So I ask you all to watch them CLOSELY. There’s a reason viewers scream “PAID ACTORS!!”. It’s because sometimes it’s true!
Perhaps, i plan on recording some of my matches and posting them here as part of the experiment i'm doing. And see if people really understand that the survivors we are playing against are not the same.
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@th3syst3m said:
Just watch Ohtofu or Skermz plays killer a lot at the start of his stream.
Looked at skerms, he seems like he mainly plays survivor, and the few matches of killer i saw from the last 6 months were just PTB matches, which i wouldn't really take too much stock in as i don't think PTB uses mmr at all.
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@th3syst3m said:
Just watch Ohtofu or Skermz plays killer a lot at the start of his stream.
I have watch tofu before and really only ever seen those challenges that he does, admittedly i haven't watched him in a long long time, so i'll take a look. As for skerms, never heard of them i'll check them out.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640256#Comment_3640256
You can believe me or not, this was not my Edit. Some Mod seemed to have edited it (for whatever reason) without giving a notification.
Mmhmm, and they deleted my comment there, keeping civil, which i like. Either way, staying on topic. Would still love to see some videos of this to improve my play.
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@solarjin1 said:
You pretty much need to go up against a comp team with no restrictions otherwise u can just use the excuse "they wasn't good survivors".
I'd be able to tell the difference between "normal" survivors and high tier ones. You can tell just by how they move how good they are.
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It is pretty easy to tell when survivors are good vs when they are not from the killer PoV. 4k hours will do that for you.
But i would be happy to review some videos from any of those content creators i mentioned. Its just what i noticed when i watched them, that most of the time otz is playing some kind of challenge, which isn't really what i'm looking for. And scott tends to meme around a lot, and i'd imagine his mmr is probably much lower because of this, vs say someone like tru3ta1ent who plays to win every single game. But tru3 isn't what i'm looking for either.
I'm here trying to improve and see if i'm doing something wrong.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
I've never been into YouTube videos but I am watching some tips today from Otz for the very first time.
He says we want skill checks when repairing with a toolbox, but do I?
My understanding is that a Good skill check just progresses the generators at the same speed anyway, but a Great one give you an extra 3%.
I play on Switch and I never aim for Great ones as I'm afraid I'll miss the skill check altogether.
I have never brought in a toolbox without this add-on that he says is no good.
What do Y'all think? Do any of you use the add-on to avoid skill checks too?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4XFHA63Q0LDK/screenshot-20240201-145536-youtube.jpg
You answered your own question there. Great skill checks give you extra progress on the gen. So if you get 5 skill checks it gives 1% more on the gen. So you get a free 5% of a gen done right there just by hitting the greats.
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@Beano744 said:
I feel horrible just killing the rest of the team after one person gives up first hook, but I also don't want to spend an extra 10 minutes farming with the rest of the survivors. I want to play the game, and survivors giving up makes me feel really bad for the rest of the team. If I play 10 games a night of killer (I play mainly PHead and Bubba) 4 of those games will have one person giving up early on.
I just don't know how to handle it, because I play survivor and if someone gives up I see it as a major middle finger to the rest of us, because it basically guarantees the loss.
How do you killer mains handle this? And how do you survivor mains expect the killer to handle this?
If i notice they are doing that, i try to leave the hook as fast as possible so someone can come save them before they can get out of the match. Then i proceed to slug them and make their time completely miserable until they DC, and finally kill them at the last second and usually let the rest of the team escape.
If i can't do that because nobody saves them, i just end the match as fast as possible.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640090#Comment_3640090
Other than the 30 second time out after being hooked, I think all that is good. Not sure how we could improve that, as doing nothing for thirty seconds is a little unintuitive, but I understand why it's there for balancing purposes. Overall good stuff.
The point is to make sure the killer KNOWS the survivor is on time out. If they didn't have a timeout, then they could just immediately hop back on a gen. And the game is flat out simply not balanced right now for 4 survivors being in the match. That is why tunneling is so strong and also necessary.
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@Frizouw said:
Hi,
I want to share my thoughts, experiences, what I think could be done about tunneling and I would like to know your opinion about that.
Lately, I played during the community tournament, which we couldn't tunnel, camp and only slug once per match, it was so much more fun, balanced than what we have right now, it was rewarding good plays for both side. Everyone actually needed to use a minimum of their brain cells, like using the only slug for the right moment, protect the right gens, make good skill shots, GOOD PLAYS!
If the killers were not respecting these rules, they were loosing a huge amount of points (negative points).
Today I came back to play with some friends and it was NOT fun, we had a Sadako that was purposely tunneling. I am not talking about like "tunneling because the survivor is asking for it" or "tunneling because it was the end game", she was waiting for the survivor to be unhook, she was ignoring us and was chasing the same surviver again until he died.
It happens more than once during the same night, different matches, different killers but same behavior. We could notice that at the end the killer won as much points as us and I felt like...there was no reason to NOT play like that.
I really do think they should work on something to make the game more like a chess and mind game and not a tunneling playground. Don't get me wrong, I know there is survivors who are bullies too, at least there is perks to counter Flashlight/Stun plays, nothing except decisive strike for survivors, that does not really change much because the tunneler just need to continue tunneling after the strike.
I don't know if there is any devs who are reading the forum for real or if what we are writing here is taken in consideration but: If your goto is "fun", I think you are loosing the track of what is "fun" by doing nothing about people who just want to be mean to others because they can and there is no penalty for doing it. Like they could continue to play like that, IF IT'S THEIR KIND OF FUN, but don't encourage that by giving as much points for just tunneling and makes the whole game miserable.
Even if people say: No one is playing for BP. I guarantee you, if the killer have 0 or close to nothing points because he played just to make everyone uninstall the game, at some point he will run out of add-ons, run out of offering, find the games boring and uninstall it or change his mindset.
I love this game, I want it to be more fun :( Please BHVR, do something <3
Thank you for reading me.
Not exactly. The problem is not that "people tunnel" the problem is that tunneling is the most effective way to win the game. You are putting the blame on the wrong people. You need to blame the developers, not the players using the strategy. The problem is the game is balanced around kills. So, the best way to win is to kill a survivor as fast as possible because the best slowdown is having less survivors in the game.
The reason for this is simple, the game with 4 survivors is simply too fast. If 4 survivors are alive it is impossible for a killer to keep up on gens when against a decent team. Watch any comp matches and you'll see that the strategy is to pick a survivor and hard tunnel them out, and hope they aren't the one with DS.
If the game incentivized chases and hooks, and actually rewarded killers for hooking more survivors and spreading pressure, you'd see far less tunneling happen.
My proposal to "fix" tunneling and camping has always been and remains the same:
- Revert the anti face camp feature, you won't need it with the following.
- Remove the ability to 4% off the hook, its a dumb mechanic that lets survivors get out of the game without a DC penalty at worst, and at its best, it rewards survivors with pure luck that allows them to turn a match around with no skill involved.
- All survivors now share the 1st hook state. The struggle phase only happens once those hook states have been burned through.
- This means that if you hard tunnel someone out, you have to hook them 6 times to kill them and the earliest a survivor can be removed is after 6 hooks. If you can't win a game in 6 hooks from someone ignoring other survivors, you are just bad at the game.
- Replace AFC with something similar to the pyramid head mechanic. If a killer is within 16 meters of a hook for more than 10 total seconds, with a 5 second grace period, even if another survivor is nearby then do the following:
- The survivor on the hook i teleported to the hook that is CLOSEST the survivor who is FURTHEST from the killer.
- This means that if the killer camps you are guaranteed to get the save within 15 seconds.
- Proxy camping is already heavily nerfed with the 6 hook state thing, because if someone proxy camps, just ignore it and slam gens and you'll finish 5 gens before you burn through 6 minutes of hook states.
- Remove basekit BT and replace with the following mechanic:
- After being unhooked, a survivor gains the Ethereal status effect for 30 seconds. The Ethereal status effect does the following:
- The survivor has no collision with the killer or other survivors
- The survivor is invisible to the killer
- The survivor makes no noise to the killer
- The survivor makes no scratch marks
- The survivor moves at 200% movement speed
- The survivor can see the aura of all other survivors
- The survivor is unable to do any conspicuous action
- The survivor is unaffected by all killer or survivor perks
- After the ethereal status effect ends, the survivor is fully healed.
- This will do many different things:
- first it makes tunneling literally impossible, you can't tunnel what you can't see, hear, or collide with.
- Secondly, it gives the survivor a "time out" so now the killer KNOWS that the survivor that was hooked, can't do anything while they are hooked, and after they are unhooked they know they have a full 30 seconds of timeout where they know that survivor can't do anything, so they KNOW they aren't doing anything productive for a while.
- Thirdly, it gives the survivor a chance to get to safety and avoid the killer. If they can't get somewhere safe within 30 seconds, they are doing something wrong.
- Fourthly, it can't be abused by survivors who want to use the mechanic to body block the person who unhooked them, because they have 0 collision.
- After being unhooked, a survivor gains the Ethereal status effect for 30 seconds. The Ethereal status effect does the following:
- Rework the concept of a win/draw.
- Survivors now win/lose/draw as a team, and not as individuals (right now an escape is a win for the individual even if the other 3 died, and hatch is always a draw, even if they all died at 5 gens.)
- A draw is 6 hooks
- A slight loss for the killer is 4-5 hooks
- A big loss for the killer is <4 hooks
- A slight win for the killer is 7-8 hooks
- A big win for the killer is 9+ hooks
If they did this, and then monitored gen times, and win rates for a little while and then start making tweaks to the base gen times, or base regression and so on, you'd see a much better much healthier and much more fun game for everyone, where hooks are incentivized instead of chases.
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@SoGo said:
The perk is not that bad, people just like to stack it with other perks creating the most annoying combo they can. And to rub the salt in the wound, they tunnel and then say: jUsT gIt GuD!
Not saying everyone plays like this, but some people do and thats why survivors complain.
Using Grim Embrace and Dead Man Switch is a new meta, ofc a ton of killers will use it as much.
Tunnelers gonna tunnel regardless of perks, and i keep saying it, but if you are tunneling with this perk combo, you are still not getting much value out of it. The combo requires you to spread pressure and hooks. If you tunnel you don't do that. And i know you will say: "yeah but people tunnel and then just get value after" Which, sure, i'll agree. But if they are tunneling, and do it successfully, all the perks are doing at that point is helping them win harder. You could do the same with 0 perks.
The people who tunnel should be using perks that help them do that, rather than slowdown perks.
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@Soval said:
Thanks for this, also I noticed the shard amounts are updated. It's 5/8 instead of 3/5 like in previous rifts.
I'm assuming it's to help the people that really struggle to complete 85 levels of it.
I noticed that in the past few tomes that go to level 85, either the tome lasted 15 days longer to be 85 days, or the tome had a secondary event that also granted shards somewhere in the middle. My guess is this is an indication that they didn't like the 85 day one, and since there isn't going to be an event, they opted to increase the shard counts instead to make it similar.
I have always said this though, and still believe this to be true, DBD has the greatest and fairest "battle pass" of any game i have ever played. DBD has a lot of problems for sure, but i have to give credit where it is do. I personally really like battle pass content because it is usually very cost efficient. For $5-10 i get so much content as long as i play, much more than if i just bought a $5-10 skin.
And BHVR makes it so fair. The "challenges" for the battle pass don't have time limits, sure they are gated, but thats just so you don't rush the whole thing right away, and they sometimes include new content in them so they want to wait until that releases. But the challenges never expire, and if you buy the tome, you are given the cost of the tome back in premium currency if you complete it (or mostly complete it) meaning that it is basically "free" if you complete it every time.
Most other games do things like, you have daily challenges you have to log in for, or weekly challenges, and if you miss those, well too bad, now you won't complete it. The other one is they often obfuscate how long it takes to level, you might see that the first "level" takes 1000 xp, but then the second one takes 1250, and the 3rd 1500, and so on. So you can't plan out how many levels per day you need.
There are all kinds of horrible things they could do to make the tomes unfair and milk money out of people, and yet they don't, and for it they end up with the greatest most fair system, and i have to commend them for it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639466#Comment_3639466
obsession can body block with BT/OTR.
Perfect opportunity to tunnel them then. And then they only have themselves to blame for losing.
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@Vlarian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639204#Comment_3639204
I mean sure, but keep in mind this is across EVERY SINGLE GEN, and an additional 30 secs of blocking when all survivors are hooked. That's guarenteed 66 seconds of slowdown, which adds up with more people on different gens, and without any other perks involved. Deadlock is one of the strongest killer perks in the game because it has guarenteed 2 mins of slowdown, now imagine that, with DMS and Grim Embrace. We're getting into pre-nerf Hex: Ruin levels of slowdown. The perk on it's own is fine, but the ability to stack multiple un-counterable slowdown effects is gonna make survivor feel awful to play, and is very powerful.
Right, but now look at deadlock, which blocks the gen with the most progress, which is far more useful and powerful. And with deadlock, you do nothing to activate it, you just lose a gen and it blocks. With grim embrace, you have to hook a survivor for the first time, and you get 12 seconds. Then after the 4th one, you get 40 seconds. For a total of 76 seconds. Now look at something like pain res. Which gives you a full 90 seconds. The difference being that grim embrace blocks all gens yes. But not all gens are worked on at all times, is rare to have more than 1-2 gens being worked on after the first couple are done where you'll see the most of the value from GE.
Also gen blocking is not gen regression. Blocking is weaker than regression, because regression KEEPS regressing until the survivor repairs it to 5%. Whereas the GE does not make the gen lose any progress after its effect is over.
At this point, i'd say GE is comparable to pain res in strength, but just does things a bit differently.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639496#Comment_3639496
Go to youtube, look up Hens and Otz series of no restrictions. See how well your theory hold.
otz is not a comp survivor. But yeah, i watch hens and ayrun, and notice how often ayrun bullys (not in the toxic sense) random killers with flashlights and such and how often escapes?
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639403#Comment_3639403
No worries, this will happen sooner or later by default. Unless they nerf Grim very quick.
And by the way, there were already showmatches killer running DMS, UW and PR. Now imgine this build with Grim Embrace.
Would still like to see those matches. Because 9 out of 10 times, the survivors will win.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639273#Comment_3639273
It's a literally no different than tunneling with pain res. you can tunnel and still get crazy vaule later on
If you are tunneling someone with pain res though, by definition you aren't using the perk (except for that first hook) thus you aren't getting value.
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@Skillfulstone said:
All those bugs due to a rushed nerf.
We know they can do distance-based effect correctly. If they had just made the perk deactivate near hooks all those issues wouldn't exist and the perk wouldn't actively encourage tunnelling.
Na, even easier TBH. just make it so after a non-obsession is unhooked they become the obsession, that actively discourages you from tunneling them.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639285#Comment_3639285
The fact it's not available on other platforms either kinda throws shade on all console platforms in general tbh.
Only reason Sony gets flack is the actual official Sony policy has been leaked, which is actually an illegal document for someone to have shared, as anyone with access to it is under an NDA... and you can bet other platforms have the same kind of agreements.
True, if i were BHVR, i would implement it on the platforms that don't have this kind of ridiculous policy, and when asked "why not playstation" i would simply answer: "take it up with sony"
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639232#Comment_3639232
You doubt that? Cool. I know for a fact that killers would dominate with this build in comp. And not only with Nurse/Blight.
I'll be eagerly awaiting a youtube video from you of a match between some comp players, maybe organize one, i'm sure hens/aryun would be up to it. They tend to like doing experiments like this.
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@ChucksterMainin said:
Like why havent the Devs added Diminishing returns to Killer slows downs?
its not helping anyone other than the Player not learning to play the killer.
Just add a System like the way Exhaustion works on Survivor. Of course i dont speak for the killer side but i do have to ask is it that fun stomping on Survivors without a chance(insert killer main but there was that one group out of many that whooped on me and it hurt my feelings.
I do get the some of the killers need it badly but the sooner this is fixed first then you can start base line buffing killers kit.
I get it your money do whatever in the end.
Side Note Alan Wake chapter perks are bad for a DLC <3
My suggestion around this, is they should create a 5th perk slot for killers that can only hold gen defense perks. Then they rework all the gen defense perks such that they all will extend the game time by around the same amount. Basically, figure out how long survivors should work on generators. Without any regression it takes 450 seconds to finish the gens. Maybe we decide that on average the killer should slow that down to 540 seconds (1 extra gen) or maybe more or less or something.
Then they rework every slowdown perk to, on average, make the survivors have to repair gens longer to that amount. I.E. If we decide that it should add 1 gen of time, then things like pain res are fine, but maybe ruin might need some buffs.
Then make it so that perk slot is only for those gen slowdown perks. And normalize the game such that, every killer has 1 gen defense perk, and its a matter of figuring out which one it is. Then, the game can be balanced around 1 gen slowdown perk, instead of some people having no slowdown, and others having 4 slowdown.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Nobody can say that except for the Devs. And they have been quiet about Cross-Progression for quite some time now.
In my opinion, it is probably out of their control at this point. Probably one or multiple platforms make it hard or impossible to implement cross-progression. If it would be abandoned, the Devs would communicate this, but it is most likely out of their control.
Cross progression as a technical constraint is not hard. The hard part is cross-play, which they have already have. Likely it is a policy situation. My understanding on cross progression for most games is that sony has a horribly policy where like, if they lose a percentage of revenue of their cut when you do cross progression, you have to recoup their "loss" from your other platforms based on a percentage of sales.
Basically, sony makes you pay for things not on their platform if they think they aren't making enough money from you on their platform. Pretty terrible imo.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Insanely bad idea from BHVR to create such a boring non counterable killer meta.
JuSt dOn'T gEt hOoKeD bRo.
Its not meant to be countered. Not everything needs a counter. It only works if you actively do not tunnel the survivors, so the "counter" to it, is that by definition of the combo working, you need to be spreading pressure to multiple survivors and hooks, meaning that there will be 4 survivors in the game for longer than if the killer hard tunneled. So what it is doing is making up for the fact that you have 4 survivors in the game longer.
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@radiantHero23 said:
Go to Cheryl and to shirts only. Should be there. It's there for me at least.
Ah, thank you this was it, didn't think to look in the "only shirt" section. Thanks!
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I figure its one of the mix and matches, but specifically i'm looking for the shirt. Where does the shirt come from?
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639105#Comment_3639105
Funny one. Comp players with this build would demolish any group of top tier survivors. They would not stand a chance.
I very much doubt that. Unless the comp player is playing nurse.
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@Vlarian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638989#Comment_3638989
TLDR: just wait 12 seconds. So... you cant counter Grim Embrace. Cool.
Also, you dont consider that killers have legs and can walk to the gen you're working on after you wait out the 12 seconds, what then?
Ummmm, just bring BNPs!
:/
12 seconds is a very very small amount of time. Keep in mind that chases are balanced around lasting 45 seconds, and after a killer has downed a survivor it will take them
- 2.7 second wipe animation
- 3 second pickup animation
- ~8 seconds to walk to a hook
- 1.5 second hook animation
- For a total of 15.2 seconds
My point here isn't that it counters that or anything, its simply a time estimate. 12 seconds is LESS TIME than it takes for a killer, who has already downed a survivor, to pick the survivor up off the ground and hook them, which is a fundamental thing that happens nearly every single game and multiple times at that.
Grim embrace isn't meant to have a "counter" so to speak, it is a perk that actively encourages the killer to spread pressure and hook multiple different survivors instead of tunneling someone out. Therefore, if you hard tunnel someone out, you aren't getting value out the of the perk, and you may as well just have 3 perks. Thus the "counter" to grim embrace, is that in order to use it effectively, multiple survivors are going to get hooked and thus will have more time in the game of having 4 survivors in the match.
Would you rather the perk not exist at all and we just continue on with the meta of hard tunneling someone out of the game as fast as possible?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639009#Comment_3639009
Stop with this incorrect timing crap. People did this same thing with Eruption too, to downplay the impact.
It's not 30 seconds, it's 30 seconds *per survivor*.
So you're already at 90 seconds with the first proc of the game, for the 3 survivors who weren't in chase... which is when people will first discover it's even in play.
And I'll also add that there's basically nothing to do in that window either. First hook usually means no one else is injured, and only one person has to go for rescue. So it's effectively guaranteed that two survivors are going to have to...
Just wait it out.
If your 'gameplay' is functionally the same as looking at a screenshot of a gen for 30 seconds, that's not gameplay. It's a ######### mechanic.
In your hypothetical scenario though, you forgot one thing. Decent survivor teams should have finished 2-3 gens before that hook happens. So now the slowdown kicking in after that is literally by design meant to slow the game down. How else is a killer supposed to do it against a team of 4 survivors split on different gens when a chase is balanced around lasting 45 seconds. And at MINIMUM if a survivor just runs in a straight like shift + w to comp corner, it'll take the killer 58 seconds to down them and hook them?