Raulillo
Raulillo
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TL;DR Rank system is broken, Matchmaking system is broken and use some elements of the rank system. Killers probably have shorter game sessions so matchmaking need more killers to fill increasing the 1-4 expected killer-survivor relation.
I think there are a few killers. I only play killer when qeue times for survivor are high enough because I think how this game is supposed to be played. Change sides when there too much people playing one side.
Also emblem system is weird, as a rank 7 killer you will be already playing with red ranks while playing survivor is more linear until you reach green ranks at least. Top killers will remain on rank 1 but the good enough killers will be around purple ranks because there are killers that they play and are not that good with (this can't happen on surv side) so they depip.
For example when I tryhard my main (huntress) I can get to red ranks, but at the moment I switch to another killer my rank drops and I start being paired with worse survivors, then i switch again and go up again. But I can't stay at 1-2 ranks as i do as a survivor because I would need to play only one character to do that.
Now comes the funny thing, we already know by a fact that a lot of killers stay in purple ranks although they are more experienced players. We also know that each month rank reset one color. So after reset all matchmaking is messed up. The match making can't fix itself in time and the next reset makes things worse. So a lot of experienced players that don't play that much each month stay in lower ranks. With these and more factors qeues have to adapt fake data to match a few killer players with a lot of survivor players. This is not better thanks to the stressful process on being a killer. Add it up to the toxicity a killer have to face, that eventually provoke a break from keep playing.
In a few words, in theory matchmaking need 1 killer for each 4 survivors. But as killers need to take a break earlier you will need a filler. So now you need 2 killers for each 4 survivors, which is bad because thats 25% (in reality is 25 * probability of a break so a bit less) more in a game when most of the player base wants to play survivor. I don't have the data to run this numbers but it could be worse depending of how bad are my assumptions.
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@LALYTHIA said:
Start using all the perks available to you. Nothing about them is impolite. Killers are not doing the same for you. You want to be polite? Don't flashlight them when it's unnecessary and don't teabag at palettes or the exit gate. Otherwise, you do you.
It is a fact that there are players that play by the "bible rule book" the other side have. I have seen both and after asking they usually respond on the line of "I don't need to try that hard to have fun". It is a good strategy if your goal is to avoid as much toxicity as possible.
If you prefer to win it's ok to use any resource that you can. You will eventually win playing with extra rules tho. You can win without perks and addons, it's just more difficult.
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@forthelulz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1223067#Comment_1223067
The DBD Wiki shows the exact numbers for everything including the amounts for slightly, moderately etc
It's a fact that the wiki has wrong or outdated information, I don't know if it is updated by developers from time to time. There are things that are wrong like gate keeper emblem information and there are other wiki articles that could be wrong and we don't know.
If a value change from 1% to 2% people won't notice without hints in the patch notes. Even with a phrase in the patch notes there are balance changes that will not be that important to most of the player base and people won't notice. So a "slightly" being 1% or 1.075% it's a thing that I prefer to look outside the game because I don't want to translate from <numbers> to <how it's supposed to be played>, in a competitive game I can understand that information is displayed but in this game I think is not relevant for the most part of the players.
I know, there are some players out there that have a timed path for every tile with every perk in the game and even a 0.00001% value change can destroy their perfect though build. They are not even a big enough group to be found every day in your matches.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
I can't stand the....
Slightly.
Moderately.
Considerably.
Tremendously.
It makes 0 sense, just add times and/or percentages. After 3 years of playing I still cannot stand it.
Slightly should say, shaves off 3 seconds off a gen time, or whatever.
Moderately, shortens healing time by 10 seconds.
From devs perspective I think it's a good idea to don't show the exact numbers. People would abuse certain items more, and stop using other ones.
When numbers come in, an optimal result can be calculated. Devs know this, so they hide the numbers and add a description with the idea that you should be using the item/addon for.
Part of the horror aura of the game comes from the lack of information too. A newcomer in the fog is going to have a hard time until he figures out how all things work.
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To identify a safe structure is pretty simple. The longer the loop, the safer. This is based on how impactful could be the killer changing direction in which he is running the loop.
For example the classic pallet near the window of foundry the killer can stand in the middle of the opposite side of the pallet, run side to side to bait a double vault, and then he could run around and lunge before the third vault animation ends. Also keep in mind that this pallet is safer before droping it because it could give you an easy path to another structure.
Bigger structures are safer, like jungle gyms. That because you have access to a window (usually), they are big and they have long corners. Corners are safe elements because you can stand in the joint of the two walls and watch the killer coming with the 3rd person camera.
So as you run into a loop you start doing a check list, the more checks the safer the structure is:
- Is it long enough to avoid vault baits?
- Has corners to extend the loop if the killer try to mind game wrong?
- Has windows?
- Has another pallet or structure near?
- Both sides of the pallet have an escape rute?
- Acceptable wall height? (Depends on the killer, high walls against huntress to avoid hatchets or low against legion to avoid mind games)
There are more questions that you can add, but with these I think you can identify most of them pretty easily.
Another way to improve is progress from looping to chaining structures. You loop less on each structure but use more structures going from one to another to move the killer around the map as he is chasing you. Pallets should be dropped to cancel bloodlust but you can cancel without it (baiting a huntress hatchet for example), so learning to extend pallets as much as possible is the goal.
You can improve in baits and techs too, faking a vault or a fall can give you a free 10% of a gen easily. Also forcing killers to break safe pallets can be useful (bait your escape and then return to the structure for another loop until the killer breaks it), if the killer don't break the pallet should be because he thinks it's unsafe, you have to prove him wrong.
Streamers usually explain some of these points during streams multiple times, all the time. I don't know if you have some problems understanding part of it, so any doubt i would be glad to try to answer. I have less hours played than you tho, the difference is a ton.
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@xenofon13 said:
Lol, once again, imagine trying to stop or punish friends from playing together a game. Pathetic.
The thing people want to punish is shared information between survivors with communication systems external to the game. Not playing with friends.
When in comms people is using external resources to their advantage that's why complains like this one exist.
@Dzeikor said:
Since you cant take away their ability to communicate with each other how about a system that grants a debuff to any swf survivor depending on how many swf are in a party for example,for a full 4 swf party,a 20% penalty in every category,3(15%),2(10%).Note that this wont affect in any way a solo survivor,only the survivors in a party that are swf will receive the debuff.
That solution is not that effective. How about SWF that don't use comms? You punish them because ... nothing. That's unfair. There is people that share discord servers in lobby, how do you detect that people? They don't get the punishment for being in comms.
If devs have not done anything is because is not that easy.
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I think the game is funnier when you play without comms.
A lot of perks work as communication.
[1] and [2] keys are designed as communication.
The game base a lot of the "horror" in being in a trial with people you don't know. You don't even have to know each other language and obviously part of the player base don't speak english.
SWF is an extra to avoid friends saturating qeues until they are paired together.
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I have had the same situation the other day and since the use of servers I think killer doesn't have priority anymore. Depending on who has the fastest connection to the server that's the person who gets the "priority".
Maybe the priority rule is never applied because of latency. I would test it myself but i need 2 people to test this.
As of personal experience it's completely random. I have been told here in a thread that works with priority towards killers but after playing some matches on both sides I think it's not clear how it works. The only thing it works is bodyblock the hatch, if the survivor gets there first, he probably is going to escape.
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@DisappointedUser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1220805#Comment_1220805
they've already said it's likely to be 32m, which is crazy long, but whatever. I don't know why they won't just do it already.
I would remove the "only 1 hatchet" thing if its that long. You can react to a throw at that distance.
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The combo it's OP (3 one shots). But the iridescent hatchet by itself is not a big deal, you avoid one and have a killer that can be looped endlessly.
The thing is that people don't know how to play against huntress and when one carry iri is GG
The addon change how you have to play, it's more about knowing when to release the hatchet and force you to mind game with it. But it's true that i would prefer another condition like only one hit if throw from X distance.
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@Sinatyxmas said:
I already hear survivor mains typing away about how killers are wanting to much. First off, i am a survivor main too. Second off, the nerf would help balance the odds evenly. What if on self-care, it had tokens? Each level of self-care has an extra token, with the final level having 3 tokens. You consume a token every time you heal yourself. Sounds simple to me. Besides, 3 chances to heal yourself can be plenty in some cases.
You suggest a nerf when the perk is not even strong. There is a better perk for healing (Nancy I am looking at you).
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A gremlin you are kind until you touch water. Then you start to generate evil bots that chase survivors and you turn into one after eating one survivor.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
I don’t get it, you are upset that people know how to play efficiently together?
play some solo and tell me how much fun you had, SWF is the only consistent method to having good teammates, yet killer “mains” dont understand the logic in it
I play solo a lot and it's fun. Streamers play solo and have fun. SWF is fun but it's not the only way to enjoy the game. This is not a math problem that you have to optimize, this is a game and there are multiple things you can do to enjoy the time spent.
@angematias said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1220299#Comment_1220299
Also really puts this post of his in perspective when he openly declared in another post to derive pleasure from ruining others' day by going through those "legitimate strats" (which technically they are). It seems to me this user just wants to get his kicks out of boredom through acting a certain way known to ruin at least one player's experience and then complain when they point it out that it's borderline bad manners.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/145063/campers For reference.
I think it's not hard to understand that OP after passing through stressfull (and probably enfuriating) matches wants to discharge all that bad emotion build up that all killers have after playing multiple games in a row. It's not a new discovered behaviour. I think it's part of the progression of all killers players:
- Stomp newbies.
- Being stomp as a baby killer.
- Being tilted because surivor behaviour (not necessary intended by the surv).
- Learn to deal with bad emotions and just enjoy the game ignoring survivor behaviour.
This learning curve is completely uncorrelated with skill, you could be a top killer but still getting frustrated or annoyed besides winning or being a rank 10 but capable of managing this emotions out. As all social activities, emotions are involved, this include multiplayer games.
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@supersonic853 said:
I know some people who get really mad when they get camped (Rightfully so) obviously nothings more boring then sitting on the hook with a bubba staring at you. But they don't obviously Message the killer or say in chat a bunch of things to fuel him like "trash killer" and "dirty camper" honestly what i say when i'm camped is "GG congrats we got like 4 gens done in the time you were waiting for me to die" Just wanted to see other peoples opinions. (It is personally annoying to me when a camper runs noed though and gets kills because noed does kinda reward a killer for doing kinda nothing) Anyways your opinions appreciated thanks!
If I am the victim I already have a chase (the most interesting thing to do in the game as a survivor) so i just spend my time analyzing the tiles that have spawn and how my team is doing. After the game i say "gg" or i don't say anything, depending in the situation.
If I am not the survivor who is being camped, I maximize my points by doing gens, totems, chests and I usually try to trade my hook with the camped one as I already got the pip. Using this strategy I can get some chase before the game ends and enjoy it a little. If it's a pro camper that don't fall to the usual tricks, Bubba not giving a failed chainsaw for example, then i just try to enter and exit chase to gain audacity until i maxed it and then escape.
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@gatsby said:
To be fair. Demo is from another dimension where Humans don't naturally exist so...
And the Devs have mentioned that they want Survivor perks to be realistic and not "magical"... so they wouldn't be able to create any perks for an animal or other creature that weren't something a human could do
The concept can be anthropomorphic but non-human. I think perks aren't a problem tho, just don't put somehing weird and problem solved.
@drimmalor said:
I always exclude licensed characters from lore discussions, because I feel like they were picked up as exciting opportunities to bring a cool character to the game, rather than for lore purposes.
With that in mind, all original characters in the game are human. It makes sense as the entity feeds on hope, and humans are complex beings who can still have hope even in the darkest times. We live to actually live, not just survive. So from the entity's view, it can feed on that hope and all the emotions that come with it. There's not that same dynamic with a beast-like creature, or magical/alien characters.
As far as practicality goes, having human survivors fit with storytelling. Someone will relate to them and all their struggles. Not that this couldn't be done with a non-Earthling kind of character, but it makes it feel real, and fits with the classic horror tropes that the game's foundation is built upon.
As licensed characters It could be a opotunity to bring characters to the game like a cartoon-version humanoid like "Shaggy" although I prefer something totally diferent like beast (Dogs or monkeys i think they could fit "Scooby Doo" both have human-like emotions) Also they could affect mechanics or be just simply cosmetic, it shouldn't be too hard for beast survivors to work exclusively on side objectives: totems, chests, wasting killer time... It could be even fun to see a dog helping you out of the hook by position himself under your feet to let you escape without problems.
I know that the game is focused on create a game based on classic slasher movies. But also i feel that i can't relate to the human characters because their situations are almost the same for everyone and because in a horror situation when a killer is trying to kill me I don't really care about who they are.
@PigNRun said:
Well, see it like this. Why were Scrappy Doo from Scooby Doo and Great Gazoo from The Flintstones disliked? They were so out of place and ruined the flow of their shows. Imagine getting an alien-like Survivor to a game with a more mystic-macabre theme, or a full on android Survivor. It just doesnt fit. A human survivor from the future? Thats a different story (which they stated they will avoid adding for the time being), and thats pushing it.
An alien Killer, on the other hand, might work, as long as its like a Xenomorph. Fully organic, beast-like body while retaining the humanoid shape (for technical reasons). Which is why Demodoggo fits; a wild beast, which you often ignore its multi-dimensional origins. Stuff like Predator, who rely on weaponry and not force (though they are strong, but theres no Predator without gadgets), that wouldnt fit.
I think that it's difficult to choose a non-human character and design it to fit in the game but I also think that there are part of the horror spectrum that it's forgotten and could be adapted.
Look for example in the horror-comedy movie Gremlins (I know comedy could mess things up but it could be worked around). In that film there is one "survivor" that is not human, the original Mogwai "Gizmo" that help to stop the other gremlins but in a different way humans do. This proves that the horror trope is flexible enough to fit non human beings in it. I would appreciate a better example because It should exist one that doesn't involve so much comedy as Gremlins but I am not that fan of horror movies.
@Huff said:
Well if we're talking about something like aliens or androids, there's several things that wouldn't work with that. Lore-wise maybe it's possible, but it would be weird to me seeing Hag mori an android/robot survivor. What would she pull out? A spleen? Would she pull out and eat scraps of metal? What about Plague, how would her sickness affect a robotic survivor? Or Clown's gas?
I agree that some creatures could have weird interactions that's why It shouldn't be a rushed release but a slow one with a lot of thinking invested on it. I used beasts/robots/aliens as examples but i think it's not limited only at that three, it could be some good zombie/ghost as the entity controls death and life in its realm, or even magic creatures (these maybe don't fit really well).
In a few words I feel survivors are not that unique as killers are. That's sad. They are just cosmetics, the unique things they have are sound volumes and heights...
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@Taartin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1218597#Comment_1218597
I agree that I speak mostly from my experience. But I still think it should be given some thought that I as someone who started playing a month ago is already getting matched with people who have been playing well over a year in 90% of the games. I can tell you that I am not some kind of prodigy because I still suck. The mmr for any killer cannot be implemented right now in any way because you can always change your killer in the lobby. I think you just had some lucky games.
Tthe fact that skill and rank do not correlate is my main issue. What do you have rank for if it does not mean anything at all. About your statement: "You face from time to time a lot of hours players, but it's not that common." Maybe I just had some bad luck but I have more often than not 3 people in a lobby with more than 800 hours. It is very rare for me to have it the other way around except when I actively derank to green ranks, wich again invalidates the whole point of a rank system.
I think the most common played hours is around 400 hours. Also you should have in mind that there are only a few mechanics to master and the other things you need are in form of knowledge about the game (what each perk does, how certain interaction works, etc.). A lot of my games that end in a win is usually because i know something that the other player doesn't, but it's not because I am better at the mechanics. Knowing how to run tiles and structures as both killer and surv help a lot, also identifying specific builds can nullify them.
The thing i mention about killer specific mmr is because I don't usually change my killer pick when I enter qeue, so maybe they are testing it to recollect data. Is not a bad idea to use the picked killer before the qeue started to find match because it's probably the killer you are going to use. I don't know for sure if they are doing this obviously but it could be.
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@Taartin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1218582#Comment_1218582
I know what you mean with "its intended" but the system is broken right now. I might get 4ks often when I get matched with players who got less than 400 hours. But considering I get my ass handed to me in every red rank game I attend I feel safe to say that the system is broken.
Without data all that kind of statements are in a few words "this is broken from my experience".
First of all I haven't played any game that has a decent matchmaking system, all of them have flaws because if you want faster qeues you need more players or more flexibility while pairing. The player base of this game is enough to have a decent matchmaking, which more or less is what we have. You face from time to time a lot of hours players, but it's not that common.
The reason why people complain a lot about the system is because they can see some numbers and they consider it's not expected to be a rank 1 with a rank 10 for example. But as rank is not related to skill level, it could be possible. I have been paired while in rank 4 with a killer with 3k hours that was at rank 15 because he had taken a break from the game.
I have had pretty close games with more frequency than in other videogames so i think the system works pretty well, I have no proof tho.
I agree that killers should have separated mmr for each character, but i feel that maybe it's already implemented because i got matched a couple games with a lot of bad players with my bad killers.
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I think rank system (emblems and all that stuff) is oriented to classify players in groups depending on how many intended mechanics of the game they follow. For example camper killers are punished, or selfish survivors.
What you are suggesting is similar what they are implementing right now, it's called mmr and it's hidden.
The problem with the hours played is not a problem, it's intended. Not all the players learn at the same pace so it's common that you find people with more hours than you who have more/less hours than you. If the system would have into account the hours played, you would see a lot of smurf accounts as it happens in free games like League of legends or buy to play games like counter strike.
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Dead hard.
Pop goes the weasel.
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@Triforcer said:
No other powers, and no addons, only M1, 110% and instadown. Where would they fit on the tier list?
My experience playing huntress 110% killer is that i can hit a LOT of M1's. And Huntress has the lullaby, imagine without it and just a normal TR affected by TR perks...
That killer would be OP because even at 100% you can get hits on survivors because a lot of factors diminish the velocity of players, vaulting windows, pallets, change from walking to sprinting, falling...
Also first hit is very important when you are misspositioned because the survivor gets a boost to run to a safe structure. With instadown you get a free hook every time you surprise someone in the open. Also hiding against a M1 instadown its super risky, if the killer find someone crouching it's usually a guaranteed hit. Also Lunge attack would make him deadly in almost every situation. People hate NOED because M1 instadown is a strong attribute to have. It's a billy saw without charge and full 360º control, a Myers state without build up... a lot of killers can have this but temporary and with some requirements. Also this would make it impossible to block the killer path to a hook.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1216904#Comment_1216904
You cant grab out of hatch. For like 6 months or a year now.
That was changed when killers were finally able to close it.
Both changed to stop standoffs. If they could grab you, you'd just take a hit first, because they cant close it.
If they can close it AND grab you, theres almost zero chance, and theyd just sit and watch while you ddo gens.
So killers can close it if you're not fast enough, but they cannot grab you out of it anymore.
Oh didn't know about this change. In its current state, if a killer and a survivor both arrives at the same time, what action have priority to escape or to close the hatch?
I have been giving out a lot of free escapes just waiting for the grab :_C
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1216533#Comment_1216533
Everyone always spouts this but it is bollocks. Yes, those gens get done and x number of people escape but the person(maybe even multiple people) who got camped had their game ruined. A game they potentially queued for 10mins+ for.
It is ######### behaviour by ######### players intent on ruining the game for someone. Saying everyone else should do gens and leave doesn't fix the fact that the person on the hook has had their game ruined and their time wasted.
I would like a perk where if the survivor is being camped for a number of seconds they get teleported to a different hook across the map, 10 seconds before they teleport the other survivors see the aura of the destination hook so they can be there ready to unhook them. Named something like "Now You See Me"
I can see the complaints about that perk before it gets even implemented. Imagine EGC, you hook someone on the far hook from the gates. The perk activates because the killer was chasing someone near the hook. Teleport to the hook near the exit gate, gg ez.
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As I have read here in some threads, if you post multiple reports related to each other or if you get impacient in general, the response will arrive later because it creates a mess in the report system they have. If you reported it you did your part, forget about it and move on.
Just as a tip, if they harash you through other platforms you can report them in these platforms too.
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@xEa said:
So you justify moris because they have the purpose to destroy the best players in the game? You know the top 0,1% / best SWF groups like you said.
MAYBE... just maybe you should not win games against the best, because... you know... they are the best?
Moris have to be nerfed ASAP since they are without a doubt completly overpowered. As the OP describes in his way, even a weaker player can win aginst the best with a mori. Great ballancing!
A weaker player can only get use of a mori against players that are worse or near his skill level. Pick some rank 16 with let's say 50-100 hours against a red rank 3K hours. Let him pick wichever build they want moris included. The red rank is going to survive. 100%.
I have seen killers starting out and there are a lot of mechanics that killers need to know or they will be humilliated.
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@terumisan said:
You want a tug of war for resources between killer and survivor why though? Survivors have the advantage since there are 4 of them and 1 killer
It hasn't to be a resources war. As you when playing as a killer try to force certain resources out of survivors like house pallet, i think it could be cool the other way. It could be a resource to make chases quicker, slow down gen progress, slow down unhooks. The thing is i feel that I interact less when playing as killer compared to when I play as a survivor.
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@Godot said:
I like this way of thinking but perhaps it wouldn't fit in the lore and in the game to have non-human survivors.
They could be like human. I think humanoids can work, like other races can.
Which part of the (i think is a bit inconsistent for what i have read) lore is problematic? The entity enjoys to see how hope evaporates in his realm, but iirc it doesn't have to be human hope.
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@UntilValhalla13 said:
What else would they be, though? Ash is still human. He just had to cut his hand off with a chainsaw when it got "corrupted".
Maybe aliens, or some kind of animal, android or robot. I think a lot of players would pick a monkey if they could.
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@danielmaster87 said:
'Hatch tech' is wrong, can we agree? It's not even a tech, it's a game breaking exploit. Robbed kills for the killer, free escapes for survivors. Just make it to when a survivor DCs and there was only 2 of them left, hatch doesn't spawn.
Hatch is a feature that shouldn't be in the game anyway, it's so dumb. Is it too much to ask for my hard work to be rewarded? Why does getting down to 1 survivor give them a chance at a free escape? They lost!
Bottom line: DC 'punishments' are not and never will be enough to discourage DC exploiting. Just remove the stupid hatch mechanic and so many problems, including this one, will just disappear.
The game lacks of a way to handle 1v1 when you have killed the rest of the survivor team.This is not a team-based game, it's better to cooperate but it's not like football that if you win your teammates win. Each individual player has it's own win condition, and hatch exists to grant that win scenario if a survivor remains in the trial alone. This is a separate thing from keys mechanics when you can open it before it's intended to open.
If you remove hatch from the game a lot of people (me included) will DC or give up after 2-3 people are down/hooked, because there are certain scenarios when you just can't be altruistic. It wouldn't be fun for survivors. I don't know about you, but i prefer to win against 4 people trying that winning against 2 people trying and 2 giving up. Also when people give up games are too quick to be enjoyable because the game can end fast when they die on hook.
The situation that you are using as your main point to explain why hatch should be removed is just a weird/edge interaction that doesn't happen often. I have played against a lot of survivors in all ranks and I don't remember being upset with that. As Killer I always look for the hatch, where it is and if someone have spotted it. Also patrolng near the hatch when you have been missing a survivor for too much time it's a good idea too. Or prioritize generators near the hatch so you can patrol the same area. Also you can injure people so you can grab them as they are escaping through hatch.
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@Thatbrownmonster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1216877#Comment_1216877
if i remember the quote correctly it's alongside "a caveman would look odd fixing a generator"
I think a survivor from the 50's-60's could work, but I believe devs won't add due to the aesthetics
Survivors from the present wouldn't look odd removing a curse from a totem? I mean I barely can imagine anyone without a shaman outfit doing it
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@Thatbrownmonster said:
future maybe
past can't work
Devs explained survivors from past wouldn't work well in the game since they wouldn't know what a generator is and how to fix it...but all modern survivor apparently know very well how to fix gens
If normal people can learn to heal themselves with an intense claudette or nancy class... why they can't learn to repair an engine?
I'm sure I could teach Archimedes in a couple days into software programming or basic electronics. There were people capable enough in past ages (real ones), So in fiction it has to be easier to create them xD
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@Cheers said:
I'd be against it. It could be abused so that killers would blacklist any survivors that bet them.
That's not a way to abuse it, if you black list top survivors and your mmr surpases lower survivors by a fair amount, your qeue times will increase to a point that you will no longer be playing. Also with a review system would be difficult to abuse that, you can code it with weights to be specific of wich reports counts more towards isolation.
Would you be against it if it couldn't be possible to abuse the system in the way you describe above?
(As a note, killers can already avoid better survivors, they just depip, that's not hard at all and you gain blood points and experience in the process)
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DS do not force you to tunnel, at the very least encourages to slugging but that's all. In the situation you describe, if the unhook it's far enough from the open exit gate you can down the unhooked and just wait. Depending what killer are you playing you can work around DS in that specific situation, picking him in open areas with huntress or trap the escape route with trapper or the hag.
I think tunneling is the best strategy that's why DS and BT exist, to make that strategy riskier. As simple as that. Every time you find a difficult mechanic that you don't know how to work around, tunneling will be the best option besides the risk because it's almost always the best strategy. Not the funniest one, but the best without any doubt. You will have all people dead with 1-2 gens left if you slug or a 3K if you don't.
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"Moris exist and are still in the game to ensure quick kills"
That's false by the fact that low rarity mori requires to have only one person alive, that happens at the end of the match. Also perks that give you the ability to kill survivors tend to have end game requirements: hope devourer (5 unhooks) or rancor (All gens done). Only by how are designed these perks I would see them as a reward but maybe they have multiple purposes.
Only devs know the real purpose they designed it for, but telling by the fact that you can choose when to use it I would say it's meant to give a more uncertain experience while playing. When the game was on its early stages, when you were hooked it was the end. People learnt to be altruistic later and maybe moris existence is a way to destroy the expectation of every game being a 2 "no problem" hooks for every survivor.
Think of killers as the game master of a Dungeons and Dragons, they can choose how the game goes to spice up the "terror" experience. If survivors are too confident maybe you need to be seen as a more powerful being, that's when moris come in. It's not necessary for a player to be good, if he doesn't fear the killer this tool might work.
All of this is just an assumption too of course.
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Just pick DS go to a safe structure and waste as much of his time as you can. If you pick DS and killer tunnels you, eventually someone will come to help you out. If they bodyblock, you can't get hit while you gain some distance.
Being tunneled is not that bad as people think.
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It depends on what survivors you are facing. You have to give them what they want. If they want a challenge, tryhard.
If they want pure fun, unexpected funny things always work like shy miers, trap farm with trapper, party at the disco with the hag, there are tons of ways to do it.
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Huntress.
She is the top skill ceiling for killers imho.
It's so satisfying when you hit your ability through a tiny hole, or when you predict where survivors are moving to and hit them from the other side of the map. Her mindgames in short loops are fun and the best of her is that the only thing that stops you from make an outplay to the survivor is the mere existence of big objects. And you can use iridescent hatchets to play like a sniper, 1 powerful shot but if you miss you have to reload and reposition because if they now where you are, they can easily react to the throws.
Also survivors don't usually bully you on postgame chat if you hit them all hatchets, predicting their lateral dashes or hit them with parabolic throws.
The other killers are fun to play, but none as the huntress <3
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@RebelRose said:
This honestly like its a fine mechanic to have but im colorblind and it absolutely SUCKS for me
I think this game has a lot of issues with accessibility. You should make a feedback suggestion with all the problems you have, or bring back an older suggestion if it exists. I mean... If I have problems seeing things in-game without having any vision health-related issue I can't imagine how awful could be play this game with one.
Devs are probably concerned about giving too many tools for killers (find survivors easier, destroying all hiding mechanics) but I am sure there are solutions less intrusive that would improve your gameplay experience.
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@Lexilogo said:
Bots to practice looping/chasing might sound nice at first but TBH mindgaming is such a massive part of looping that I don't think any bot could really replace the PvP experience. In something like a fighting game practicing combos on dummies can be great but DbD is mostly about prediction, gamesense and mindgames which you can never replicate with bots.
I think a few simple tools would be:
- An in-game library of all Perks, Addons, and Items.
- A skillcheck generator. These already exist online but having an in-game system to generate Skillchecks under different conditions, as well as different kinds of checks like DS skillchecks would be nice.
- A "save match as replay"/"view last match" function like you suggested, that allows you to watch a match in a fully spectated mode, so you can see the whole thing from the Killer's perspective or from any of the Survivor's perspectives. (I think automatically saving your last match would be a good way to handle this) You can choose to either follow their cameras exactly, attach to them or fly around the map freely. The ability to save Replays and share them with others would also be ideal.
I definitely agree features like these would help the game a lot and assist with training resources.
I agree that mindgames are a big part of the game but you can practice mindgames with bots, at least the muscle memory involved to do it consistently. Fighting games have a lot of mindgames and you can practice against a bot to improve the muscle memory needed to executing them as needed.
In this game most mindgames are related to a false visual information before line of sight is broken, so you can practice with a bot and a simple tool that tells you when you appear in his "screen", when not and when you appear but only a bit or through an object (structures or behind a player).
I think the skillcheck generator is easy to implement for them.
The in-game library you talk about is partially implemented but all the information is scattered around, I would love to see it all in one place.
Thank you for your contribution, all this ideas can help the game a lot.
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The best way to improve i have found to improve in games where you have 0 chance is to play like you are in a training game mode.
Pick the best survivor you can find and tunnel him until you land a hit, then reset and pick another one while the injured is healed. It feels way better to approach unfair matches this way because your win condition changes from kill everyone to just learn. The other players are gonna enjoy having chases without being downed and it's very common that when they realise you are not going to kill them, they will let you hook them a couple times.
You can use the gate warden perk to force more chases.
If the survivors are a flashlight squad or you feel that you are not going to learn anything, go to one corner of the map, look at the walls, alt-tab and watch something until the match ends. You can return from time to time to open the gates and enter EGC if they have finished all the gens.
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I think it's more related to the fact that the game is growing, new people join the forums and as they are new to discuss things in a forum they just write what they feel it's true.
It's a good sign tho, killer playerbase has to grow with the survivor playerbase or qeue times will turn into hell.
Also these kind of posts are popular and get more attention than fact based because more people interact with the post. As in politics feelings are more popular than facts and that's independent of the topic discussed.
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@xTalon32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1197074#Comment_1197074
Well tunneling and camping has definitely leaked into Solo. But I think that's only because a killer can't say with 100% certainty whether a group is SWF or not. And at lower ranks it works because teamwork is a relatively foreign concept because they want to survive without risk.
I play solo survivor and if I get a good team who rescue and stay on gens if the killer is camping, things go well. The problem comes in when you have a team of solo survivors only looking out for themselves, and you will be punished by the killer for that. Back when the game was released this aspect of the game was really exciting for me.
In higher ranks It's very uncommon to find a group that don't play altruism when tunneling. I've seen a lot of people complaining about tunneling in postgame chat and that people never stay at gens, they try to take aggro, flashlight saves, etc.
Camping is countered more often because it's easier to identify the strategy. You need a couple hooks to identify a tunnel.
Even if they focus generators you have an easier time, because you would need 1 hook per survivor in that scenario.
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@xTalon32 said:
Well at the same time, hooking a survivor is a way to get another off a gen.
And, leaving the unhooked survivor to chase the rescuer, means 2 people are injured and looking to heal maybe. Hooking puts pressure on survivors, and if you don't camp it's more effective because you can bet more than one person leaves a gen to go save someone if they're trying to be good team mates.
Where I believe the game encourages tunneling/camping right now is SWF, because it's the most effective counter to it right now.
I think that's true but in the other hand, nothing can put as much pressure as turning a 4vs1 in a 3vs1. Even doing only 2 gens can be difficult if you are 3vs1 because when you hook 1, 1 have to go for the rescue and the other one can enter a temporary chase while waiting for the unhook.
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@Dehitay said:
While I agree that a lot of things encourage tunneling, your #2 doesn't. Survivors looking alike makes it harder to tunnel if anything.
I think it depends on what the killer wants to do, here I am expecting that the killer don't want to tunnel.
If the killer wants to tunnel someone, it's harder to identify the target.
If the killer wants to avoid tunneling, it's harder to avoid the unhooked.
I have had before writing this comment a game with two claudettes, one hooked and one injured. I leave the hook, one claudette unhook the other, I am not in a chase nor doing something (pgtw or breaking strong pallets) so i return to chase the rescuer. I see far away 2 claudettes each one running in different directions, both injured. I don't want to chase the unhooked one because it's funnier for everyone if the all survivors last longer. As they seem the same to me, I commit to one of them. That's a 50% chance because without more information it's a completely random choice.
The point is that you can't avoid tunneling even if you want. But you can always tunnel because if you focus one survivor from the start, he will be injured at all times while the rest remain full health so it's easier identify your target and his scratch marks (blood in it).
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I will say "gg" even if it is not a good game. It's good manners, you respect the other players by telling that the match was good.
Now to really think that the match was good It has to accomplish at least one of the following things:
- Being a close match, the difference between players is almost zero and everyone is understanding the game of the other players enough to recognise a good play by the other side, recognize a mistake from either side and learn from either good and bad plays from all players.
- A intensive learning match. There are matches when you don't stop learning new things, "oh this loop is better if i run this way", "Oh i can throw hatches through that hole between the trees", "Oh there is a ton of people using this path, it should be a good spot for traps". Humans love to learn, we are made of knowledge.
- A fun match. If i laughed a lot, it was good for me. If everyone laughed it was good for everyone.
- In this game, matches are so quick that I enjoy a lot long matches.
- On survivor long chases are so fun that if i have one, the game was good for me.
- On killer if I make good mind games or use some tech successfuly, it means a good game.
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If you don't know where survivors are and you don't return to the unhook despite the notification you are giving them a massive advantage.
If you know where other survivors are and you are already chasing someone, you are distributing the pressure evenly and that's a good strategy too... BUT returning to the hook is always an option that you have! If the survivor you are chasing is good, you can choose at that moment who is the weakest link of the 2 survivors you have encountered. If both were good, you can try to find the person who came to unhook, he may be the weakest link. If the rescue happens in a good area with generators close to each others, it's usually better return to avoid an endgame with gens far away.
In the lobby you can check survivor items to decide this before match even starts. The unhook person has medkit? Anyone has flashlight and will be always trying to make a save so you can fake a pick up after downing the unhooked? Have they characters difficult to spot in the current map (Ninja Claudette)?
Doing always the same you are using a handicap in your games. I would say It's better to decide when to return and when to do not, just because games are decisions, if you are not taking certain decisions or avoiding them you are not playing the complete game :S
Toxic players are gonna blame you despite what you do. I have seen blame after we all escaped, because idk people is just permaraging on this game for some reason.
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It is viable but not efficient and that is why you won't usually see any team using it. This is not a specific problem of dbd. A lot of games suffer this, the most common example being critical chance. For any luck based strategy to be efficient it has to be consistent without spending too much resources.
In this specific case, you want escapes from hooks (not always because it's not 100%). This strat requires 2 perks per survivor plus 4 offerings. The value per slot is too low, each slot used contributes 1/12 to the goal. Any perk that contributes more than 1/12 to a goal will be more efficient and should be placed in the slot.
Also luck based strats tends to be more boring because you will not use new ways to approach the game, just the same as before with some background numbers modified. A sabotage strat is funnier, adds different playstyle, it's more efficient and it's more flexible because you spend less resources that can be used for another "plan B" strat.
Just as a note, it's not needed a high chance for a luck based strat to be viable. 60-70% is usually enough.
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I think skill checks are already all over the place. I prefer another solution rather than another "skill" check. Maybe another minigame, or a thing that you can do while in the hook to help your team like faking bird sounds and every time the killer looks at you after doing that you get points. Maybe the ability to mark spots in the map with a shiny column of ligth. Maybe a minigame in which you get transported to a nightmare where you have to run away from the entity in a straight line, jumping windows and throwing pallets. As I'm writing this... i would love to see the last one. Imagine practice the looping against the entity while your friends go to rescue you...
It has everything that the struggle mechanic wants, tension, keeping the player involved in the game and encouraging staying in the game. Also it solves a lot of the problem that struggle phase has [looking at others playing while you can't]. New players would love this. The bad thing about this: a hell of coding. You can make a teleport to a side where is a room specific for this purpose and make the ilusion of the player moving while the only things moving are the entity behind the player and the props (pallets, windows, etc.).
Just an idea but I would love this implemented.
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I think it's pretty much balanced because of the following:
- His chainsaw requires some skill to be useful. You can detect a new billy in a matter of seconds.
- He can be countered by almost every structure in the game. If you focus unsafe engines early, you win but he can patrol fast to prevent that... but he can only chase one... but he can slug... but he have to choose between keep the slugs party or protect the unsafe engine... or even stop slugging to keep defending... I could keep this enumeration of options but i think you can see the point that his design despite being simple it fits pretty well with the other game elements
- He has a strong potential but requires to do predictions, reads and techs like curving. It takes a while until you can get these consistently and you can still fail because if you do a curv on a loop and the survivor expect that, you will give him free distance, you will lose vision during a few seconds and a cooldown. All this together means, each tech avoided is about 10-20 seconds wasted in a chase for billy.
I think it's no surprise at all that addons in this game are a mechanism to keep people grinding and not to spice things up. Almost all addons for killers (except a few one that Do change the playstyle of the killer like some of myers) do not change how the killer works, just buff some of their stats. Killer addons are a problem that will be solved but don't expect it soon.
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I have about 90 hours registered on steam in the last 2 weeks. I have the rift on level 66 (the clown knife one). I have almost all challenges completed.
Some thoughts:
- There are some challenges that require multiple tries to get done.
- You have not access to all challenges from day 1. They released them slowly.
- Multiple challenges require non-default characters so it's difficult for players that do not have enough hours spent or that only play the base game.
- The tome has the same boost on bp as a bp bonus day, but it don't encourage farming as much.
I think the rift gets easier the earlier you start it because some challenges depends on luck, like the "open the hatch 2 times" or the "do X and escape". I spent 1 entire day doing the hatch one because unlucky spawns, others opened it, etc.
I would improve the challenges to encourage different playstyles like some quests did:
- Go for an "open the hatch" run
- Chase with big falls
- Take protection hits
Repair generators, escape or being in chase X seconds doesn't look like a "challenge". In my opinion it's more fun a few difficult challenges that a bunch of easy ones. BUT this would mean that the rift would need a lot of "nothing specific to do" games. My best solution to this problem: give the player 2 quests at the same time, one that's really difficult and the other the easy one. This can be made in a lot of ways:
- Forcing an ultra challenge for each tome (depending in which tome are you, you have a different ultra challenge).
- Special nodes that let you pick a different type of quest that does not stack with the normal one.
- 2 quests slots and the player choose the completion strategy (I think this is the worst tho).