Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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"It's tunneling because x killers focus x targets/objectives out of 4".
"It's not genrush/tunnel because x survivors focus x target/objectives out of 7."
At any given time each survivor is only targeting one generator. Theyre getting 1 out asap. (Sounds like what killers do when tunneling while twirling their evil mustaches)
If they did as they wanted to killer to, every survivor would need to jump between multiple gens and spread the progress between all 7 gens evenly.
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Uggghhhhh.
Havent the devs stated multiple times they wont split the survivor balance into solo/swf? Dont ask for nerfs for swf, they wont happen. Nerf survivor instead lol.
As for the whole solo/swf power levels? Same character, same power level. The difference is player mindset and thirdparty comms. Chatwheel/ping tool or voicechat as buff to survivor is the only reasonable suggestion that doesnt buff swf more than solo.
But survivors dont want comms to be part of the balance compared to an bonus like it currently is....
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647541#Comment_3647541
The biggest problem with solo q are the ragequitters, lone wolf survivors, and survivors that literally throw games away for rift challenges. How is solo q supposed to feel like a team, when it contains people that are clearly anti-team?
People really should be asking for BHVR to do something about solo q’s lack of working together, in ways that don’t involve getting more information buffs.
Its interesting so few people see the real difference between solo and swf. Both are the same character, the difference is not even player skill but the mindset.
I've seen people ask for Kindred but also BONDS basekit, or even a live map/radar because swf has it with the clock callouts on comms, lol. The various ping tool ideas generally seemed the most reasonable because it's not just spoonfed UI information.
I think it's probably inevitable for survivors to get more info in the name of this gapclosing, but it wont help solo as much it'd help swf, contrary to popular belief.
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Play as you wish.
If you want to handicap yourself to please the opponent, knock yourself out but dont expect your opponent to appreciate it or return the courtesy. Most of them wont't even notice and still blame you for dying "too early".
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Its funny how survivors geta pass to just stop doing gens "because its just hopeless". Be honest, you're just doing it because scumbagging for the hatch is easier. Killers supposed to play the whole trial regardless of gens/survivors left, so survivors should do too.
Theres a solution thats already implemented in Identity V: really aggressive idle crows when you havent touched gens in a while.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645145#Comment_3645145
This would be an amazing counter argument if survivors were also able to heal hook states, but as it is, it's just a flimsy excuse. Survivors need to finish a generator to lock their progress, whereas killers just need to hook people once and their progress is already locked.
Moreover, survivors finishing gens lowers the playable section of the map for killers, making them easier to patrol, reducing map size even more and making it more likely for killers to stumble upon survivors even by mere accident. Meanwhile, a killer tunneling a survivor out does not make it easier for the remaining survivors to progress their objective and they in fact make it harder for them.
Apples to oranges.
The map only shrinks if survivors 3gen themselvres. If they instead leave the furthest apart gens for last there isnt a difference.
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I dont get the point that tunnel killers are unable to learn how to chase healthy survivors.... Barring rare exceptions every survivor starts their first chase healthy.
Killers cant get "better" if all they chase are people who go down before the first pallet.
Old DS never helped with the killer skill issue as you call it. It just made killers need to chase more often by giving survivors an extra chance. Its as obnoxious as if every killer had double damage just for equipping a perk.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645101#Comment_3645101
Pray tell, how can survivors genrush with nothing but their base kit?
They’re just doing their objective. They can’t choose to make that objective go faster, as much as killers can choose to go after the vulnerable surv over and over.
Well. Survivors tend to focus X specific generators (X= amount of survivors not in a chase) instead of spreading the progrrss among all 7 generators.
Survivors btw *choose* to bring a toolbox to do gens faster.
Survivors also seem to prefer to stay on the same gens which already have progress instead of going for a new one. You know, the "vulnerable" ones which can be finished faster than new ones.
Not to forget not going for saves/unhooks instantly but staying on gens right before stage 2.
Tunneling and genrush both are just doing the objective. Except people shame killers for doing it and forget theyre doing it as survivors.
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When you let go during a skillcheck, what do you expect to happen?
The devs could theoretically give a bit more leeway by tweaking some timings around the warning sound and the actual "now you can fail the check"-timing...
But people might get too used to new timing and start complaining about this topic again.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642577#Comment_3642577
I think you've become too biased and I urge you to take a step back. Your vision is clouded by hatred for the other side and it shows.
There is no Survivor conspiracy against you or Killers. Killers have been buffed across the board since I started playing so many years ago. There is no such energy, you constantly hear complaints about perks, strategies, button presses etc etc.
Sadako being rolled back happened despite feedback that she was GOOD. All the feedback here and on Reddit was positive. Every content creator had positive feedback. The Devs do what they want.
I feel like there are topics in which the community definitely holds survivors to a less strict standard.
For a small example. Do you expect survivors to consider their opponent's fun or change their gameplay to do so?
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@Nick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640453#Comment_3640453
That "tunneling at 5 gens" always makes me wonder when, according to you, someone is allowed to "tunnel". You are probably going to say 1 generator or 2 generators left. But by that time you already lost as killer. You will be chasing someone, 4 people alive, one gen gets stacked, other solo. You're already cooked
Dont forget that "at 5 gens left" could mean anything inbetween 0 and 396 charges repaired.
It's like saying dont start repairing at 0 hooks.
"Dont tunnel at 5gens left" is valid but "dont repair/genrush at 0hooks" is ridiculous, right? Btw thats totally one of the survivor biases this community has.
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Just a reminder that the overheat mechanic was announced/hinted at as minor tweaks.
I'm sure im not the only one with bleak expectations forse the adjustments.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642732#Comment_3642732
I think that's the intention though considering their smug reactions to survivor issues. They want killers to win most of the time which really means they want it easier.
Just because you don't win 100% of the time with a killer, automatically, doesn't mean a killer is unusable. A few killers are so unbelievably broken beyond belief that it has caused a mindset that some killers are bad. In reality, those killers are a little closer to fair game.
Oh the same mindset that makes sirvivors think swf+ comms is how even braindead bad survivors ("solo") should be able to perform?
Survivor isnt bad because you dont escape 100% of the time.
Unlike with killers tho, the difference between bad survivors and good survivors is 100% not the chosen character.
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"+ charge speed/cooldown/reload/charges etc" simply is stronger and more reliable than "once in a full moon, when a survivor does x, you get y un the condition of z" (see those diablo 4 passives lol)
I think most preople gravitate to the stronger addons, see the whole nurse/blight addon outrage. If you got a 2 part ability the devs can make sure there are less good addons for the better part of the ability lol.
Killers like stronger chase powers, survivors dont. Devs have to make both "happy".
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I might be reading into it wrong, but this would actively reward survivors with ignoring the perils of their teammates. Instead of exposing yourself to the risks of going for a save, you can just keep focus on your gen (gen
tunnelingrushing) and that other sucker on the floor does still contribute to repair progress, probably more than if he was up and getting found and chased again.If you think this scenario sounds more than 50% realistic then it's a bad idea.
Also: Reward for messing up is bad.
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Whats the differences between solo and swf?
- It's the same character
- Mechanical differences are third party communication apps.
- Mental differences are more teamwork and team spirit
- Relucantly added to this list: Skill amount is irrelevant to solo/swf and depends on each individiual lobby, although i will admit that skill is more consistent because you met your teammates more often than randoms.
What can the devs even add to make up such differences?
Point 2: Voicecomms range from "talking about their days and cute boys" to "relatively accurate clockwork style radar callouts". Theres been works to turn some comm callout advantages into HUD additions, like "what are my buds currently doing", but consider what would be too much or too strong? Like "swf can callout positions", dayum we better let survivors see each others aura at all times. or add a map to the corner of the screen (or fullscreen seethrough overlay on buttom prompt) that displays all objects the survivors have seen. I know i'm exaggerating but ive seen similiar suggestions.
Point 3: how the hell would you make survivors play as a team with forced game mechanics?. Make lightning smite them if they dont unhook in 15 seconds?Something like the anticamp/antitunnel/antifacecamp crap? I'm a killer main and dislike all those "dont do X" mechanics being added to the game so I wont even humor the thought of thinking up such stuff for survivors, it'd may make me as hypocrite as these survivors.
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*Uses Discord to talk to other survivors on the other side of the map anyways*
*Uses proximity solely to insult and shittalk the killer*
Yeah... I dunno if that'd work in this game.
Survivors dont want comms in this game, because if it was part of the game, the devs would need to consider it in the balance instead of a bonus the survivors just stack ontop the game mechanics.
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I dont think many killers would enjoy the whisper sound effects. Although I'd guess some sort of whispers tracking (without being annoying, maybe more visual like the survivor heart) would make for a fine unconditional addition, if balance tweaks ever make such an addition necessary. (such as after the solo-swf-gap-closure hyperbuffs to all survivors lol)
As both survivors simply just stop doing objectives because waiting for the other to die is less risky than doing gens, just make idle crows more agressive. A hidden timer that spawns crows whenever these lazy shits dont do objectives for X seconds, the difference to regular idle crows being they follow the survivor until they interact with a gen, chest, or similiar object. Obviously not vaults, pallets or Lockers. Identity V spawns crows on survivors who arent doing stuff for 80 seconds (no poisition checks but "go do stuff or the killer gets pinged")
yep, punish survivors for not doing their objectives.
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I think its funny that these requestrs never consider the consequence that killers would now too be free to just rage the second they deem a match unsalvageable.
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The way I see it is that the community somehow decided that killers are some sort of Dungeon Master that has to ensure their players have fun. The killer isnt a DM, but an opponent thats as free to follow their goals as survivors are, which includes killing survivors.
People would call me crazy if i demanded to be giving a minimum lifespan of my choice in other games in which you can get killed early. Imagine complaining about not getting a a chance by others to grab a gun before getting gunned down.
I think the problem is that the community is seriously contemplating about adding punishments for killers technically just playing the game and ignoring that survivors are doing the same things as killers.
Edit: removed putting words and apparantly lasagna into OP's mouth.Apologies.
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@crystalkitti said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632406#Comment_3632406
Sorry, the reply you quoted was directed at somebody else's comment, so I think there's been a misunderstanding. Let me clarify:
I can see your logic, how 'going after somebody already injured better suits my interest (getting kills).' So I raise you this: if a Survivor could spend their whole game following you, the Killer, popping out at the most inopportune times for you (i.e. about to get a down, initiating chase, etc.) and proceed to blind you, completely stopping you in your tracks, with no limits to their blinds, would you consider that proper? You wouldn't get upset?
My point is, the Survivor's logic in that case is, 'I want myself and my team to survive. I could repair gens, buuut if I follow the Killer everywhere and prevent them from EVER getting downs or hooks, I can secure the win for my team!!' By your own logic, this makes perfect sense, and there's nothing wrong with this train of thought...
...this is, of course, if the Survivor is ignoring the following facts:
- That's not fun for the Killer at all, you're going out of your way to ruin the game for them, even though it's 'technically' just 'part of playing Survivor!'
- You could just play normally and repair gens, get saves, etc., and you'd still have a good chance of winning. You're going out of your way, choosing not to, and ruining the game for others.
If you played Survivor and got tunneled out of the majority of matches you played, straight from the start, you would not be having fun. Trust me, I've been there plenty. I'm assuming you're a Killer main, based on your debate, but do you think you could consider the logic from the PoV of a Survivor player in that place?
I know when I play Killer, I go well out of my way to make sure I never tunnel, because I understand what it's like to be on the Survivor side of that. I'm certainly not asking every Killer player to play like me; I'm simply asking if they could consider how they would feel in the shoes of the Survivor they're choosing to target and tunnel out of the game. 😥
The point this forum post is making is, how can we fix this problem? Because it is a problem; again, BHVR wouldn't have bothered with things like DS or OTR if it wasn't. I'm not here to keep reiterating that point... I just want people to share their ideas for a fix, whether you play Survivor, Killer, or both.
I bet the survivors bored to death by gens deciding its funnier to be pricks and constantly burning retinas until some did it to a dev on a livestream totally cared about the killer fun.
Yes I'm killer biased and totally would be upset if they kept blinding me for the lols or freeing survivors from my shoulder, undoing my work and making me need to win another chase. Kinda like DS, hey I'm tanggentially on topic for once. I wouldnt demand them to be nerfed into nonexistance though.
And these kinda killer unfuneffects stack, yet you only see killer complaints but no survivors rallying together to "not use those" every game.
I also laugh at "killers only want to 4k" being repeated everywhere as it was some argument against fairness. So? "Survivors want to escape"
If survivors didnt have the need to escape, they wouldnt complain about dying. They wouldnt need to vulture for the hatch etc.
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@crystalkitti said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632063#Comment_3632063
Killing would be, "ok, just I caught and hooked Survivor A. I went away to kick a gen and found Survivor B, chased them, downed them, hooked them. Oh look, A just got unhooked by C! So, I could go back and chase C, or keep checking gens, in case D tries to pop one."
Tunneling would be, "ok, just I caught and hooked Survivor A. I went away to kick a gen and found Survivor B, chased them, downed them, hooked them. Oh look, A just got unhooked by C! Time to go back and immediately, purposefully target A again until they're downed, put them back on hook, and keep an eye on them. Oh, now B's just been unhooked? Let's give them the same treatment as A! back on the hook with you!"
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There's a very noticeable difference between these two behaviors, and I'm sorry if it's become so muddled for you over time that you can't tell them apart, because that certainly makes this debate harder for you. But they are different, and one is not ok nor fun for the Survivors.
If I get chased and put on hook first, that's fine. So long as between me getting unhooked and me getting chased for the second time, I've had time to do something like heal/get healed, start repairing a gen, etc., then that's fine. That's not tunneling. If the Killer comes straight back to hook once my feet hit the ground and chases me, deliberately ignoring my teammate who unhooked, that's not fine; that's tunneling. That's a problem, and specifically the problem we're trying to fix. Again, if you have suggestions on how to potentially fix this problem, I'd love to hear them! 😀 you're clearly Killer-sided, which gives us a good PoV into that side of gameplay, so you can definitely help out here if you want.
Would you expect survivors to go for a new generator they dont know the condition of or go to their last gen they know the progress and location of? Most survivors would choose the already progressed generator.
So why is only the killer role expected to chose the objectively worse choice of target?
An injured survivor is objectively the better target and has nothing to do with the implied malice of your "tunneling" example.
You evaded my question of the burden of fairness by talking about rude gestures like teabagging, which isnt the same as choosing to pick a better target. Punching a hooked survivor is more of a killer equivalent to teabagging, or actual teabagging if theyre the pig or ghostface.
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@crystalkitti said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631062#Comment_3631062
If there was no issue with things like tunneling, BHVR wouldn't have even attempted to stop Killers from doing it (i.e. with DS, OTR, etc.).
When I say tunneling, I mean actual tunneling, like "Survivor gets unhooked and Killer chases them immediately within 30-60s of unhook, before Survivor has a chance to get healed or perform any conspicuous action, sometimes despite teammates attempting to intervene." Not the stereotype of "I got unhooked and now the Killer's chasing me again, even though I started repairing/bodyblocked for a while/sabo'd the hook right in front of them!!" Because that's not tunneling.
And as for @LazyClown 's argument: The problem is that Killers often seem to forget (or just don't care) that it's a video game, it's meant to be fun for everyone, not just them. So they specifically target certain Survivors, it ruins the game for them and makes them feel useless, because they got removed from play so early on w/o a chance to recover or earn any real points.
Do I have games as Survivor where I get tunneled early, but shrug and move on? A ton, yes, but it's not fun. And I've played against many a team as Killer that make me feel like garbage because they're too good for me... or because they, much like a tunneling Killer would, seem to forget that it's a video game, it's meant to be fun, and instead decide to throw any and all sportsmanship out the window, as they go out of their way to do things that most people consider 'rude,' such as crouch-spamming and flashlight clicking.
Tunneling is bad, and it is an issue. The real problem, like I stated before, is 'how can we fix it?' And I'd love to hear ideas from anyone, both Survivor and Killer mains alike! because this is a problem that requires help from both sides to try and fix. 😃
Why's the Burden of fairness only enforced on Killers?
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@crystalkitti said:
I'd love to see anti-tunnel perks buffed again, but... here's the thing that I think, while true, nobody wants to hear:
Tunneling is never going to get fixed. Ever. There's not a thing they can do, w/o reworking the whole system, to stop it. It's based on A, how the game works, and B, human psychology. It's based on the Killer thinking 'there's nothing wrong with me going after this Survivor again, even though I know it's tunneling.' It's purely in their head, which is why there isn't anything in the game that can actually stop a tunneler; unless you've got a SWF ready to die for you, or unless you're already ready to bolt out the Gate, you're almost always going on the hook again (and probably going to see the lobby screen shortly thereafter.)
Here's something I've been thinking on for a bit... What if they implemented something completely new? They've done it with the anti-camp system (though that is, uh... lackluster, to say the least. Too easily abusable/avoidable by the Killer, really..) so why not make something wholly new for anti-tunnel? It might be difficult to do w/o going completely overboard (i.e. the stupidly overpowered "unhooked Survivors are invulnerable, silent, and invisible for 60s or until conspicuous action" type ideas), but I think it's doable.
Plus, if it was implemented as base-kit (like BT and anti-camp), then everyone could make use of it, w/o wasting a perk slot on a perk that won't do anything besides stun the Killer for 3 seconds. If anything, 99% of the Killers I have stunned with DS will just see it like a taunt, and think "well, that Survivor just DESERVES to die now!" despite it being literal self-defense against their rude 'playstyle'.
tldr: My suggestion is don't bother buffing DS or other anti-tunnel perks, just make a base-kit anti-tunnel system that actually punishes Killers for tunneling.
One lil fix for ypur theory:
The killer isnt tunneling despite it being bad, the survivors are telling him its bad ober and over again until anyone involved also looks at it like its bad.
Tunneling being bad is survivors being mad about losing a chase or dying early.
"To frustrate you and male you mad i drew you as the soyjack and me as the chad!" - no pic cuz i cant draw like C3
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Totally for trimming the fat of the perks. Stuff like Brutal Strength and unrelenting (just %-stat boosts) may be the simplest to just remove with hopefully not much backlash.
I'd trade all of Wraith's perks for improvements of the visibility and general mechanics of bloodstains and scratchmarks. Hell shadowborn finally got basekit'd. They could keep the new shadowborn as his sole perk.
For the addon aspect, I'd probably want to either remove all %-boost (charge time etc) addons and make some (or most) of the lost stats basekit, or remove different rarities of addons with the same effect. For killers I'd go as far as making the playstyle changers alternate abilities instead of addons (Mirror myers, 1blink nurse etc).
For survivor items and addons, I'd probably try to remove the Items from the bloodweb, give survivors infinite base items of each kind and rebalance the lost power into the base item and the addons. Then Survivors could be balanced around always having an item equipped. Would probably not work like i wrote it down cuz of chests. Well ,having chest items spawn with addons without the need of a perk (which can get removed then) would be perfectly fine in this topic.
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630454#Comment_3630454
There are people on this forum who still believe that solo can be buffed without swf being buffed as well and Killers can be buffed afterwards if Survivors are too strong.
The problem with the swf gap is that the mechanical difference is "third party comms". The rest is player intentions, agency or skill.
I'd like the gap to be closed, but most stuff to get the advantages of comms without adding comms will simply move the power of survivors up, maybe even widening the gap. Like ive heard people want to have bond as basekit, which obviously is an extreme case but nevertheless.
"And compensate killers accordingly afterwards" sounds nice but is often just a vague statement to justify the survivor megabuffs. Most discussions ive seen ignored the details. (And realistically would have sirvivors dunk on killers for months before any miniscule adjustments)
Btw i apologize but because of the position of the "still" I read your post as if you intended to mock the people you're talking about.
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@Lmac99 said:
The idea is super fair for both sides but nah survivor basekit BAD
Survivors get another basekit feature that's stronger than the perk it's based on.
Whats fair or new to the killer except having to keep this in mind at all times? Oh: they have to chase 1 more time to hook, up to twice, per survivor if the survivor intends to make it so.
Yes, it's bad and reducting it in a mocking tone doesnt make it any less so.
Run DS if you want the DS effect, it's more effective if the killer wont 100% know it's coming.
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@MrDrMedicman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/402391/killer-power-limits
Survivors just run crutch perks and the skill gap between good and bad survivors has turned into a valley. Now they need more crutches, and demand even more
Reminds me of the whole "solo swf"-gap. Buff "solo" to close the gap, but since theyre the same character most buffs to "solo" will also buff "swf", simply powercreeping the survivor role instead.
Doesnt help that this community often uses "solo" as synonym for "bad players" and "swf" for "good players".
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I'd say the ones that use tools instead of magic are easier to put into movies. Depends on the premuse of the movie tho.
But I guess Trapper and Huntress could work.
Huntress/Trapper/Wraith/HB could essily fit in a "horny teens enter abandoned restricted area and get hunted"- plot.
Wraith could be similiarily used like myers or slender in the first half of a movie, only blurry shape and faint bell ringing. But i'd say more like myers in the og movie than a predator.
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I think the debuff killers will be valuable. Sick/mad survivors are wasier to find. Static blast is a boon for nurse ;)
Obviously 2 high tiers perform well, but theres no synergy when they dont influence each others chases.
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Wouldnt a visual representation of her starting to phase invalidate the whole mindgame of "did or didnt she?", especially if it's the glowing survivor heart instead of something like glowwy shards on her body?
I mean making audio work is a good thing, but as far Im concerned bhvr has a track record of just messing up audio for killers ( sound occlusion throzgh walls got worse at least 3 times, billy chainsaw etc)
Wouldnt be surprising if it ends with survivors being 100% able to track a completely invisible enemy while she gets drowned in whooshing with unusable scrtchmarks.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628696#Comment_3628696
??? Why did you not understanding my drawing, then assuming it, and lead the meaning of chart into another way that fits your assuming?
Your drawing can be read any way because its not specified which color represents what. If you didnt want people to interpret stuff into your drawing you should've specified which is what. I do though apologize for the confusing shortness of my post. On a technical level though, blue=killer makes more sense as there are real mechanical differences on killers compared to swf/solo where theres only player skill and third party apps as differences, making it more sense to have survivors represented by equal symbols.
I do understand you wanted to showcase that the "killer power" should be based on the average "survivor power"; like 1 strong swf for each X survivors. You point out that putting the "killer power" equally to the "rare" 1 strong swf is a bad move that'd hurt the other X survivors. But the reverse is also true. SWFs are an outlier that overperform over the average killers and are only matched by good killers.
Tangentially important or maybe offtopic, but It's kinda sad to see this community being able to differentiate between the performance of "swf" (used for good players) and "solo" (used for bad players) on the same character but are regularily willingly ignoring the existence of bad players on the killer side. Theres no bad Nurses in any of these discussions like this.
As for my mockup version of your picture: It's about the reality about how our community talks about balancing the game. "Solo needs to be buffed to SWF level and Strong killers need to be gutted". Incase it's not obvious, this line of thinking is severely wrong.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622245#Comment_3622245
Sadly, thats not how "average" work.
At MMR 10 (assume 10 is the top), if there are Nine teams have strength of 10, and One team have strength of 12, the killer's strength balance should be ~10.2
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/COIPIDHL6A8A/image.png
If you want a killer character to be the really equal to a team that happens to be only 10% of the other side, you would get 100% win rate against the rest of 90% team. That is not balance. The Devs wants at least 16 out of 40 survivors able to escape, not 2/40.
On your version, assuming Blue=Killers (Big one is nurse), Red=Survivors, Im pretty sure the second picture is how the community wants the "solo swf"-gap to be closed.
Now i shouldnt be so cynical about it, but I think this one is close to our community's mindset too:
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@C3Tooth said:
Quad slowdown Nurse agree.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JQFG3MR6BOSZ/image.png
I mean, MMR is there to put try hard again try hard together (thanks to dodging lobby that filling in is a thing). Try hard people never want to play against equal try hard.
Split 2 mode Casual and Competitive doesnt help Casual to not face against Competitive. Its to help Competitive to face against Casual more frequently.
And most games that reach that stage like in your pic would indeed look like that, cuz if it went better for the survs the killer could just dc too in casual mode.
Stats (those that exclude dc) would probably be way more killer sided that current trends because more games would end to killer dc.
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When starting a skillcheck the game cant know you'd be letting go 0.1 seconds later. Technically you let go during a skillcheck and obviously fail it.
OP's first suggestion may invalidate skillchecks as a threat if implemented badly, being able to just skip that mechanic. How much of a timeframe to let go after a skillcheck is spawned do survivors need as leeway? Should survivors be able to let go of a gen during the warning sound? One second later? When the needle is reaching the great skillcheck part?
As far i know no killer likes the telekinetic overcharge skillcheck and i refuse to elaborate on the concept of that becoming the default mechanic. It lessens the threat of skillchecks by a huge margin.
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@Wowie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619892#Comment_3619892
There is a ping tool with the map. No one uses it, and a lot of players are baffled encountering it because they didn't even know it existed. Even if they do, no one actually checks on it.
Voice chat is a bad idea for this game anyway, I agree with you there. I don't dig the idea of canned lines IDV style either, but it'd be far more acceptable.
Well the problem with the map is that its a lackluster item+addon combo costing ingame money instead of a free feature.
Oh, I do support adding unrestricted VC (like current thirdapps) to survivor tho, just that it needs to be part of the balance.
IDV's messages rock and "repair gens" and"heal me" would be such a boon for dbd.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620648#Comment_3620648
If high MMR survivors “arent that good” to you so that Blight can have a huge win streak. Then why people complain when they’re playing against “arent that good” survivors?
If a Blight of 5 stack 4 slowdown, strong addon and tunneling; beating teams of 5 or even 6…eventually they will get beaten by teams of 9. That is when killers have a misconcept of “the game should be balanced around high MMR”, How can such a Blight loadout that strong be struggled to have 2K?
While infact, their skill is never be there. Not about the balance
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620650#Comment_3620650
Thanks to lobby dodging and thats more on killers than MMR itself.
With our current mmr which priotizes "speed" over "fairness", can you be sure that all survivors in that winstreak are that player's level too?
In a normal mmr, If a blight of 5 keeps beating survivors of 5-6, they shouldnt be matched against a team of 9 unless theyre 7-9 too by that moment; Which shouldve happened bybeating those 5-6's.
And survivors of 9 beating a killer of 9 seems normal to me.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620619#Comment_3620619
Well. The last time I know about top players that you desperately to balance around have over 1500 win rate on Blight.
If they can balance to make that Blight to have 60% kill rate instead of 100%…
I'd reckon that player's winstreak is balanced out by the rest of the blight players' performance.
Or are we allowed to cite some 4 top survivors on comms for the average performance of all survovors?
Edit: It's worth noting, concerning killrates etc, that in all results except a 4k theres still a survivor escaping/winning. Even a 25% escape rate means on average theres a survivor win in every trial.
You should know better. Now dismiss me with some unrelated sketch of a smug survivor.
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If there was a proximity chat ingame survivors would use that... to insult the killer while still using the untraceable third-party-voicechats for proper talking/strategizing. Who'd use range restricted vc when theres discord?
Let's face it, survivors dont want voicechat added to the game, especially if it comes with restrictions. As soon it becomes part of the game, it'd be part of the game balance and thus be reason for buffs/nerfs.
Some sort of ping tool (glowing marker visible to people) or message system ( "heal me numbskull", "focus gens") would be preferable, even if the ping tool would also buff swfs even more.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618808#Comment_3618808
Oh no, not this again😥
Its because we have a draw outcome. And a 0k is a relevant variable. So is a draw neither a win or a loss. There we go:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/13YDOXFP0TH6/grafik.png
Myers is at roughly 60% killrate. This means, as we can see, the killer wins 51% and only looses 33% of the time. 0 kills is an outcome in DBD, and you have to put this into account. In fact, winrate with a 60% killer is compared to looserate actually even much higher then lossrate.
Another example:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1ZYZ30AM7UHU/grafik.png
60% killrate on plague translates into 54% winrate and only 34% lossrate. 0 kill is a loss, and 2k is a draw. You win significantly more games with her then you would loose.
No discussion needed, i only wanted to show some proof.
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618684#Comment_3618684
Did I escape/die
Did more of my team escape/die... even if I died.
- Wins can be defined in many ways: Some may think a pip is a win, some may think a lot of bloodpoints is enough to qualify for a win. And others may think winning is by escaping or 3/4king = Gaining MMR.
- The only two times "Did more of my team escape/die... even if I died." is a win condition is true when playingin a comp match or by making this rule for themself.
Point 1 is ingame reality. You gained something. Pip, MMR, Bloodpoints.
Point 2 is imaginative. You gain nothing by telling yourself you won the game because 3 of your teammates escaped.
So besides from playing comp and own ego boosting, "Did more of my team escape/die... even if I died." is not really a true win condition. UNLESS bhvr changes MMR to a Group-MMR. Which would make a lot of sense, but so far it is not reality.
Well some people might argue that a draw is still a loss for the killer. I mean the killer "didnt win" afterall.
The 2k = draw could only exist once the game actually starts treating/judging survivors as a team, which as you said, isnt the current reality of the game.
But with the current scoring 2 survivors won the other two and the killer lost.
( its also funny to see an actual kill distribution for a 60% killrate compared to the average math formula i keep using lol)
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I dont wanna be that guy but, please get rid of that habit of using "power role" wrong.
"Few but powerful" vs "weak but numerous". Thats why the sole killer is the power role and survivors is the numbers role. Its a design conceptual term, not even related to the balance.
But for the sake of this discussion, I think its better if the game favors the killer a bit.
Edit:
If we take the targeted average killrate of 60% and assume each survivor gets an equal chance to be killed, that would mean all 4 survivors would each have a 40% chance to win. A killer would get a ~48% chance for a win (community consensus that 3k or 4k are a win)
A 50% escape chance means a 50% chance per sirvivor to win while a killer win happens ~31.25% of the time.
The first seems fairer to me.
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Wow what a nicely flourished nerf nurse thread.
- Problem: "Many killers except [Top killer name hete] have problems"
- Solution: "nerf [Top killer name here] so they have that problem too."
Just buiff the weaker killers to be on par with the other charactets on their side. Whys it so hard to use this logic for killers? Theres real game mechanics to rweak compared to the survivors' solo/swf discourse where its a matter of third party apps and player agency.
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Well. Atleat killers dont hqave a way to avoid the dc penalty. Theyre getting punished if they dc too often.
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Damn i remember when Marth did his depid squad vids and won big times, many people dismissed that.
A killer does a streak and suddenly it's the irrefuteable evidence of killer sidedness in the game.
Anyone else ever notice the survivor bias of this community?
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@Xendritch said:
At this point just take away the DC penalty, I'd rather have a bot teammate than no teammate at all.
You cant remove the dc penalty as it'd make killers possible to ragequit too, resulting in a very small chance for survivors to ever finish a game by escaping. If killers are anything like survivors, they'd simply rage the moment the gates are powered, legally.
It'd break the game.
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I'd rather say instead of making gens take longer, they should make them harder to finish.
Or "you have to pay attention to them" if "harder" is too much for the survivors.
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Be aware of the fact that solo and swf are the same character, game mechanically identical. The difference is player skill, teammentality and external comms, two things that cant be adjusted ingame and the third gets a lot of resistance when suggested to be implemented ingame.
So that begs the question: How do you bridge a skill issue between "bad players without comms" and "good players in a group with comms" without buffing the "good players on comms" too?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605976#Comment_3605976
I don't like that idea to be honest. It just doesn't sit right with me when a killers power is that telegraphed. Maybe they could test it on a PTB though.
I think it doesnt feel right because it feeds into the mindset that survivors need all the info spoonfed for free at all times.
Its on the same level of giving survivors free bond. Etc.
Alternazively i heard some killers complain about survivors getting more info about their powers than themselves. Could be that too
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I think "bad stealth" could be remedied by making idle survivors spawn afk crows more easily.
Lazily copied from Identity V: do not perform certain actions (conspicious actions could work) for 80 seconds and you get crows that ping the killer every 5 seconds. (google identity V crows for better description lol)
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The only gap between "solo" (meaning bad players soli) and "swf" (meaning good players on comms) is....
Player skill and voicecomms, two things the devs cant touch. As both solo and swf use the same characzer, any compensatibg buff will also affect swf, result in a moved gap and increased general survuvor power instead of closing the gap.