Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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Doctor + Nurse
Thematically fitting but also diabolical because screaming survivors are easy pickings for the nurse.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676971#Comment_3676971
I'm curious where the survivor "team" mentality comes from in these discussions. If it looks like a duck (survivor dies) and it quacks like a duck ( MMR goes down when killed) then it might just be a duck (that survivor lost.) Each survivor has an individual outcome of win/lose/draw (if you count hatch as a draw, otherwise win/lose if simplified to ignore the MMR stipulation) but the killer has 5 possible outcomes (specified since lose/draw/win have a cadence of 2/1/2) and its possible for both a survivor and the killer to win simultaneously (3K/1E) as well as the killer and one survivor to lose (1K/3E.)
I don't consider it a zero sum game, based on how the devs have structured MMR. It technically wasn't zero sum when emblems were the determining factor either, since pips could be awarded or removed on both sides. The only way it works as a zero sum game is if you consider the survivors a team and ignore both MMR and PIPs, which is why I'm so curious as to why its so many people's default view.
I've been beaten like a dead horse in another thread because I said killers cant "draw" in a 2k/2e cuz theres no singular team that also "draws". Theres nothing indicating survivors being a team, like you said, the 1e in a 3k still wins and the 1k in a 3k doesnt get points for the others escaping. I'm rather ... bruised ... and too tired of this topic to further elaborate, as I dont understand those people either.
as for the hatch being a draw? it clearly gives the escape points *facepalm*
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676971#Comment_3676971
Sorry but that's completely wrong. The binomial formula works if X is an independent event which is absolutely not the case here. In DBD the chance of survivor 1 escaping depends heavily on survivors 2, 3 and 4 escaping too. Your calculator won't tell you anything for that case.
Huh, neat. To be fair it's been atleast 10years since I had anything to do with stochastics.
Though I'd say thats to be expected when my numbers are based on a "chance" thats been derived from the "rate" the devs showed us. I'm aware that 40% escape rate doesnt mean you get a 40% chance to escape when you boot up dbd, but that after collecting tons of data there are ~40 survivors escaping for every ~100 survivors that play...
EDIT: Just read it as the imaginary average escape chance x derived from the escape rates A B C D of the survivor participants a b c d. (I hope this is as horrible a joke as I think it is)
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676971#Comment_3676971
Thank you for this input and double checking my math!
I believe the discrepancy comes from a different interpretation of survivors escape rates, mine coming from a 40% chance of an individual escaping, while yours comes from a 40% chance of the team escaping.
An entirely valid way of interpreting the statistics as I'm not 100% sure if the devs clarified or not whether the 40% survival escape rate was for an individual or a team. If it is indeed a team escape rate, your version is 100% the correct way of interpreting the statistics. Thank you again for this!
Wait no, my math is based on the individual survivor escape chance. You may need to read it again.
- escape chance x
- four survivors escaping x^4
- 3 survivors escaping 4 * x^3 * (1-x)
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I'd say I see more survivors asking for the "fair" 50/50 they call the 50% escape chance.
Quickly opened a graphic calculator webpage and wrote this down:
- x = escape chance (the chance for a survivor to win)
- (1-x)^4) + 4 * (1-x)^3 * x = chance for 4k and 3k combined (the chance for a killer to win)
- 6 (1-x)^2 * x^2 = chance to 2k (the chance for the k
- x^4 + 4 x^(3) * (1-x) = Chance for 0k and 1k combined (commonly refered to as survivor "team" win)
With a 40% escape chance we get:
- 47.25% chance for a killer win
- 34.56% chance for a draw
- 17.92% for a survivor "team" win
- The Killer has a 1.188 times higher chance to win than each individual Survivor.
With a 50% escape chance we get:
- 31.25% chance for a killer win
- 37.5% chance for a draw
- 31.25% for a survivor "team" win
- Each individual survivor has a 1.6 times higher chance to win than the killer.
- Yes, this is a "fair" 50/50 or like 31.25/31.25 for the survivor "team" and the killer.
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I think you made a mistake in your math. EDIT: or wrote it down wrong, which can happen easily.
- For 1 Kill its: 4 * (1-SR)^3 * SR = 4 * (1 - 0.4)^3 * 0.4
You keep using the same rate twice in the mixed outcomes of 1k, 2k, 3k.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676390#Comment_3676390
A 2k is a loss because you didnt win and theres no other team that didnt lose.A 2k is a win because you didn't lose and there's no other team that didn't win.
If you want to throw out draws the above makes as much logical sense as the rationale for 2k being a loss.
Mhm. Youre right. I Probanly should stop posting before 12am when i keep producing such stuff. Too hotheaded recently...
I'd still say it's weird is the only player capable of draw as survivors arent a team. (My point of comparison is identity V's scoring of more than 2 x being a win.)
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676070#Comment_3676070
A 2k is considered a draw by admission of the devs and how the MMR system works...
If you 2k as a killer you neither move up or down in MMR, a draw.
And suddenly mmr matters.
A 2k is a loss because you didnt win and theres no other team that didnt lose.
It'd be different if the scoring officially was like in IdV but it isnt. (3+ escapes as win for all survivors)
A 2k is 2 survivor wins, 2 lossses and a killer loss.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675978#Comment_3675978
I've seen this argument so many times.
If you want to use this argument you're either misunderstanding how statistics work or arguing in bad faith.
60% kill rate roughly equates to an on average, 2.5 kills per game, meaning that survivors are seeing 1.5 people escape on average.
When looking at this statistically, an above average game for killer would mean that they would receive a 15% increase to their kill rates, landing them at 3 kills on an above average match with 1 survivor escaping.
An above average game from the survivors would land them at a 55% escape rate, meaning that even when survivors play above the average match threshold, they are are only getting 2.2 survivors out on average.
2 Kills, 2 escapes is considered a draw for the killer.
So, even while using this example of not equating kill rate and win rate, a below average game for killer statistically equates to a draw, 2 kills on average.
At this point, what more do you want? Draws are a part of the game, the "win rate" should not be 50% or higher, so many people forget that shooting for a 50% win rate means that the spread would look more like 50% win, 30% loss, 20% draw.
A draw occurs if all participants dont fulfill the win condition. 2 survivors win 2 lose, theyre not an united team.
Does the killer draw against the 2 winners or losers? Nope the killer loses in a 2k.
Unlike Identity V, dbd doesnt judge and score the survivors as a team the killer could draw against.
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Remember when the Survivors read gamefiles or logs to check the Killer in the lobby?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
If they implemented this, killers would be upset that most games are 'basically a swf'. I think BHVR wants to avoid that, but its feels bad. Most of the killers who openly talk about how hard they always tunnel would be the biggest noise, as they probably wouldn't be able to get their inflated wins. But as they told me plenty of times: their happiness isn't my responsibility. Gross huh? Yeah lol
Why would killers react to this feature at all? Unlike ingame voicechat or chatwheel this changes nothing in-trial.
"Hey im running DH DS BT SC"
Already possible in voicechat and lobby chat. Yes, icons and tooltips would be simpler but it's already possible to inform the other survivors.
The only way this could agitate certain killers is if survivor perks were vvisible to the killer. But thats off topic.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675162#Comment_3675162
Tunneling can often be a massive game advantage
Thank you for confirming how broken tunneling is. I close my case.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675133#Comment_3675133
No, that's not anywhere near enough compensation. Tunneling can often be a massive game advantage, and asking killers to avoid tunnelling is a huge thing to ask. BHVR revealed that for the vast majority of the players, being solo doesn't really affect kill rate. And not stacking meta doesn't mean much to me, as all the survivor perks I complain about are largely considered non-meta.
And if your attitude is that killers don't need to tunnel, because the game is pushed towards a 60% kill rate, then the same applies to survivors. Survivors don't need to ever try to flashlight save, or hook sabo, or excessively hide, or use voice communications specifically for game advantages... because they'll be near a 40% escape rate regardless of what they do. And therefore, survivors can easily avoid doing things that killers think is unfun, because they'll "have the same escape results" regardless of what they do.
People on this forum are acting like disliking your opponent getting an advantage is some shocking groundbreaking revelation.
Survivors are sodden they get killed and want that strategy removed. Thats it.
Survivors want killers to not to press theadvantages when they obtained them. Like not working that gen you used a bnp on...
Or worse, killers shouldnt be able to gain advantage in the first place.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674563#Comment_3674563
I understand your point. But I also think your point is wrong. Your fun isn’t my responsibility.
And let’s just get to the actual issue here. You’re upset that BHVR wants the kill rate to be around 60%, and many of your recent complaints revolve around this. You’re upset that the kill rate used to be lower than 60%, and BHVR raised the kill rate.
Don't bother. People on this forum confuse Killrate with Killer winrate all the time.
Unless the devs show us how often 3k and 4k happen, we won't know how big the difference between survivor wr and killer wr is.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674090#Comment_3674090
Nobody is asking for a headstart and people are aware that the GP will just do what the game gives them. Right now, DBD is most promsing for killers to tunnel and proxycamp. Isnt it understandable that survivors want to have that changed? Not changing the people, that is hardly possible, but rather the game itself?!
GP? (sorry not familiar with that acronym) general populace?
It's understandable , but I think its unreasonable. "We hate it and if they dont stop it when we tell them to, they shouldnt be able to do it" isnt reasonable.
Oh right, I should mention that I belong to "those" people who believe tunneling to be normal gameplay, because it's the same as survivors "just doing" a single generator instead of swapping generators every 33% of progress. Note that the community hypocritically vilifies it if the killer does it. for survivors it's considered the "normal" gameplay.
"Would you kindly stop genrushing at 0 Hooks?" How do you think this forum would react if I opened a thread like that? I'm pretty sure I'd be ridiculed and told to git gud. "Stop doing your objective effectively just because I didnt progress mine yet" isn't reasonable.
People often tell killers to consider the survivors feeling. my answer is simply that survivors dont care either, so why should killers?
(Yeah i know, ancient history and bad taste example, anyways...)
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... Did i really just read that killers should be happy with an 1k?
A draw isnt a win and who is the killer even suppposed to draw with? The two survivors who won or the two that lost? In reality 2k and below are a loss. It doesnt work in dbd as the survs arent judged as a team. Example Identity V: survs get 30% bonus score for 3+ escapes, killer for 3+kills. The end screen displaying the win/loss/draw for both sides.
Also as expected the people are confused about the dev stats. 40% escape rate is easily converted into a 40% winrate for survivors.
Now how many of those 60% kills are actually 3+kills wins?
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So 3 survs didnt manage to do 1 gen in the time it takes to tunnel out a survivor? First searchtime + Chasetime + optional camping the first kill should be enough for atleast that much.
I dont get the "at 5 gens" complains either. Is the koller supposed to give you a headstart? If 3 gens are popping within 90s of a trial starting theyre also supposed to just deal with it cuz izs normal gameplay according to this very forum.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672593#Comment_3672593
I will make a fact check about that soon since im curous who really got more changes over the years.
If you really intend to do such a list, please be careful what you put on it. Back then when this forum didnt exist yet some survivor put a "survivors got nerfed worse, killers got more buffs"-list on the steam discussions.
...
I think it included killer bugfixes as nerfs to survivor, among other nonsene.
If i remember correctly, within hours of heated discussion someone made a more objective list dismisding that first one as plain wrong.
The forum's reaction would be interesting, or a clusterf...
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671425#Comment_3671425
overall i think it would lead to situations where the killer either has to chase a surv he cant hook or has to accept that the surv will just do gens and i think there is no situation where the killer can just allow to let a surv work on a gen cause the killer can never know how far the other gens are.
to get rid of tunneling bhvr should rework the whole hooking system.
its not that hard and does not take to much from them. simply keep hooks how they are but change what happens when a surv is hooked. after being hooked the survivor gets teleportet into some kind of holding cell where he has to stay for x amount of time and no one is able to make that time shorter or longer. kinda like waiting to respawn in other games.
when the time is up the survivor gets fully healed and brought back to the map. when spawning back the survivor has a short haste effect.
the respawn point is random and based on where the killer is where the other survivor are and where the doors are if the gens are done to ensure there is no way to get a advantage from reentering the map or a disadvantage.
that way the killer knows when he hooks a survivor he has a specific amount of pressure he puts on the enemy wich could ease some of the stress of playing killer. the survivor team gets freed from rescuing wich mostly in solo q can lead to two or even three survs runnign to the hook so progress dies.
camping and tunneling both would stop cause there is no way to it anymore.
the only problem i could see is what to do with endgame. with that system getting hooked in endgame is a death sentence maybe that system simply has no affect in endgame and hooking works like it always did
It'd kill the pressure done by the hooked by killing the survivor-survivor interaction, especially with the full heal, and would enable survivors to ignore anything else to focus the gen infront of them down. Something similiar went down in Deathgarden and I'm of the opinion its one of the things that killed the game.
Survivors would also loathe a respawn room. They cant stand sitting 90s on a gen, how'd you imagine theyd take being restricted to a room with nothing to do in for 120s ( the current sacrifice time). Ofc we could tweak the timeout duration, or even make it instant respawn somewhere, but that'd reduce the killer pressure on survivors even further.
Onto the topic of this thread, I'd agree on tweaking the self unhooking to make suicides impossible but I cant agree on punishing a killer for choosing a target. Getting punished for hitting and hooking a survivor sounds horribly unfair. "just ignoring them" doesnt work, theyd do gens or help others. Slugging them just spawns more "nerf slugging" or "punish slugging"-threads in the forum.
Call me a unrepentant biased killer main but punishing tunneling is as stupid as punishing survivors for not swapping gens every 25% of progress.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670496#Comment_3670496
Given 90sec of gameplay
Say killers get 2 hooks in 90sec. Either 2 hooks on Dwight, or 1 on Dwight and 1 on Meg. Killer still get progression.
For survivors, its either
- You finish 1 Gen
- Or you do 15sec of Gen1 ; spend 15sec running to Gen2 then do 15sec of Gen2 ; spend 15sec running to Gen3 then do 15sec of Gen3 ; spend 15sec running to Gen4. The total progression you made is 45sec spread out to Gen1 Gen2 Gen3 that Gen1 and Gen2 already kicked and regressed to zero.
The comparison is fail on so many level.
The thing you're try to preach is Killers should only injure survivors but never down and hook. And survivors dont ask killer to do that.
Dont remember telling killers not to kill. I'm saying survivors shouldnt demand killers to spread their focus if theyre unwilling to do so themselves.
Am I right to assume youre saying that it's more effective to stay on the same gen and finish it as soon as possible compared to searching other generators and doing them at the same time?
... Thats exactly tunneling.
I dont even demand survivors to shoot themselves in the foot by not focusing on a gen at a time. But they shouldnt demand the killer to play worse, innefficient, "considerate of their fun", if they've internalised the same strategy they blame killers for as "normal" gameplay.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670456#Comment_3670456
How does one tunnel a generator?
Are there other objectives survivors can and should always be doing?
With killer, I can pick one out of four survivors to chase, as a survivor all I can do is a generator if folks are healed up, etc.
You could split your attention among multiple gens you dont know the progress and location of instead of focusing that single gen.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670456#Comment_3670456
On second thought. If Im healthy, standing next to a Gen, and you're chasing a teammate. What should I do?
- Do that gen
- Help your teammate
- Split your attention evenly among the 4 nearest gens.
The 3rd choice btw is what survs tell killers to do and wouldnt it be unfair to choose the other smarter choices. No pressure. Survs should do as they preach rught?
I'd predict most survs choose 1 or 2.
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@C3Tooth said:
I should wait for a teammate to die before I touch Gen.
Nobody's telling you to do so, but do as you wish. I'd recommend only waiting till the first hook, until first death seems kinda extreme.
Though personally I think you shouldn't handicap yourself like that. "Do not do x at 5gens/0hooks/0kills" is such a ridiculous demand if aimed at the opponent or even imposed on yourself.
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@Katzengott said:
What are "5 gens left"? Bad stats again, could be 3 gens on 90%.
Anything between 7gens at 0% and 7gens at 99% to be precise. It can also take about 90 seconds from trial start to turn a 5 into anything between 4 and 1. "At 5 gens" is such a vague point of reference to judge something by.
Strangely being at 0 hooks doesnt stop survivors from jumping onto the first gen they see and do only that generator. Don't they know good players should spread their efforts on atleast 4 objectives?
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669503#Comment_3669503
According to the dictionary definition of the word balanced it's 50/50, not 60/40.
Okay sure.
What is it you wish to be equally likely to happen?
- Escape / Kill (survivor winrate vs survivor not-winrate)
- 3+ escapes / 3+ kills ("team" win vs killer win)
- Escape / 3+ kills (survivor winrate vs killer winrate)
A problem I see most people having is not understanding that killrate is NOT the winrate for killers.
Lets do some offtopic cointoss experiment. I'm aware that chances arent rates, so this is just theoretical numberscrunching, for fun.
Is it fair if 4 people each have a 50% chance to win while the 5th person only wins if 3 or 4 of the others lose?
For clarity's sake the 5th person has a 0.5^4 +4x0.5^3 chance which is ~31.25% to win.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669217#Comment_3669217
"Free escape"? They managed to get through 5 gens without dying, that's already an achievement. The killer shouldn't get a free kill at that point just because.
You really shouldnt complain about "free kills" while defending "free escapes". It's hypocrisy.
Furthermore, as people do always point out in that 4k discussion, you dont deserve a 4k just because you killed 3, you need to work for it, which killers do.
Conversely, just because the gens are powered or the gates open doesnt mean you're entitled to escape. You escape once you cross the finish line.
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Well...
Devs still want that 60% killrate tho.
Welcome to patch 6.1A(lternate) in which survivors still get nerfed.
And hintress still gets that ms boost while aiming.
*monkey claw closes*
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I thought tunneling leaves the killer with less points than the goodboy strategies?
Both get boosted by BPS so how does it reward tunneling more than the survivor approved strategies?
If anything it shows that killers prefer tunneling over more bloodpoint-rewarding alternatives. Which has nothing to do with yourself being irritated at giving the killer a boost with an item that cleary states doing so.
Stop being mad at yourself and use different offerings instead.
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First off, the devs cant realistically emulate the advantage of consistent zeammates. You cant make your randoms care about you. The devs could tweak some challenges to not make them gamethrowing tho.
What I often see is the sentiment to give survivors the results of comms usage wirhout giving survivors comms.
The lazy and probably most welcomed way to do that would be slapping on lot's of free aura reading on survivors (or a mapscreen, minimap or radar): permanently knowing survivor positions, the position of interactable objects seen once by any survivor, the killer as long he's visible to others.
I say lazy because it's free and supporters skip the input needed to get the results when doing it with comms. Theres no need to gather and relay info when its just spoonfed to you instantly.
The most reasonable suggestion imo would be a chat wheel without ping. This adds only a weaker version of messages survivors convey with comms. So swf doesnt benefit as much as solo.
Adding a location ping tool (like highlighting the killer when you target him with it) may be helpful but a really huge bzff to both solo AND swf.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666807#Comment_3666807
Nobody is saying you should be able to block 90%... Let's say like 3-4 killers max on each survivor... So still half of them are available, also I don't think most people will ban the strongest ones, but the most annoying like skull merchant for example. But sure you might be right about the strongest, however we can only guess...
They were saying that 90% of survivors would block [current strongest killer], not that 90% of killers would get blocked.
Expanding the banlist by X would just make sure that both the top(X-1) killers and a personal unfavorite get banned.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666702#Comment_3666702
My guy, if a survivor laser-focuses on ono specific gen, he's throwing. It'll be way too easy for the killer to interfere and neutralize.
It's a completely false equivalence. Or do you think survivors should, basekit, be able to recover hookstates too?
Might be worth testing.
How about in the same ptb we test regressing completed gens. Both sides have irreversible failstates.
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@Crowman said:
3 Gen defense recently got nerfed.
There's no real benefit to spreading out hooks.
The community is obsessed with trying to "balance" DBD that it just results in people being very comp minded and focusing on how to best optimize wins.
This one is my opinion, but I see survivors hate on killers for practically everything regardless of how the killer played. Makes trying to play nice not very rewarding so you might as well just play to win.
I'd like to think that some sirvivors simply dont want to use the same strategies as themselves:
- Each survivor focuses 1 gen from start to finish: "thats normal play"
- Killer does the same to 1 urvivor: "tunnel bad"
I think people simply subconsciously block themselves from seeing that tunneling is what survivors do as "normal gameplay"
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My condolences for your bad experience.
The following poinrs may give food for thought.
- Your opponent doesnt care for your feelings.
- Just because you restrict yourself doesnt mean your opponent would do the same.
- It's hypocrisy to expect your opponent to restrict themselves or play considerate of your feelings if you dont do so yourself.
- Your opponent might confuse playing nice with playing inept.
You can try to keep playing the nice clown or join the evil tunnelers who just want to 4k, or you play like you want and feel like, which should be the healthiest approach.
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You leave, you get penalised.
If anything survivor suicide should get removed or atleast penalised too. No skipping the rules for one side only.
Gosh imagine they actually allowed killer to DC like survivor do. There'd be no functional trials except those in which the killer win.
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Just make walls not eat 90% of all sounds.
They messed with sound occlusion (or whatever its called) twice or thrice and the result was always worse than before for killers.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661440#Comment_3661440
With 60% kill rate, the win rate is always higher than lose rate. You can try to math every possible out come for 12 kills out of 20 survivors in 5 matches.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661394#Comment_3661394
That is correct, a decent killer should have at least 2K against a decent team. So most killers who say "try to 4K against a decent team" definitely not better than decent team to earn 4K.
I think theres a misunderstanding on my part. Cause Yui doesnt mention the killrate but "2 escapes".
I've read your Yui like she's saying that once you're "decent", you shouldnt be getting less than 2 escapes. Which in turn means that every trial with "decent" or better survivors, thered be a winrate of 0% for kilkersfor those trials, afterall you need 3 or 4 kills for a killer win. Thats why i asked if she means on average.
I didnt mean all trials for the global winrate but only those with "decent or better" survivors. Obviously the noobs and bad survs would overproportionally feed the global killrate more than the smaller group of "decent or better" survs".
I apologize if I was arguing about something you didnt intend to imply.
Maybe i shouldnt post early in the morning. I'm pretty sure I wouldnt misunderstand such simple sentences then.
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I do hope on average and not absolute.
0% winrate for any killer once the sirvivors get "decent" sounds horribly unbalanced.
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660543#Comment_3660543
Early 2022 before 6.1.0, the norm for Survivor queue times was 10 minutes in my region. Matchmaking prioritizing queue times had yet to be implemented yet and I was not aware of any widespread complaints about beginner players going up against much more experienced players during that time period. Streamer vods from that time period can prove if I was "guessing" or not.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660547#Comment_3660547
I'm not sure if I'm following your point but are you saying that the disparity between swf and solo queue cannot be bridged?
The problem with the disparity as you call it isnt different game mechanics.
Literally, both "solo" and "swf" are the same character: "survivor". And the devs have decided zo explicitely not split that character. Any mechanic added to "help solo" will be available to swf too. Free bond gotta be more useful to swf than solo for example.
The differences between solo and swf are player behavior and maybe 3rdparty comms the community doesnt want added. You cant force randoms to care about each other as a group of friends does.
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@SuperCop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658981#Comment_3658981
I would literally rather be hit on hook repeatedly than me or someone else be targeted and eliminated from the start of the match.
There's no excuse for tunneling at 5 gens. If you have to stoop that low to "win" as killer, then you're not good.
"At 5 gens" can range from 0 seconds into the game to 7 gens prepped at 99% which can be ~157 seconds (done by 4 players) to 630 seconds ( 1 player ), excluding travel time. It can also go to 2 gens left or even 1 gen left within less than 100 seconds of a trial starting.
Its a rather variable timeframe to vilify another players action.
Edit:
As for the spreading generators dialogue you have with @MrPenguin :
Do you see individual survivors splitting their attention across multiple generators? Theres normally 4 survivors on 4 gens, not 4 survivors on 7. One survivor focusing one generator each. Theyre doing the same bad thing they dont want the killer to do.
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Arguably tunneling is only bad because survivors dont like getting removed from the trial before they finished whatever goals they set out to do. Yes, this includes salt because "they died".
I'm just gonna point out that "normal efficient gameplay" on the survivor side is essentially what they complain about when the killer does it.
But it's refreshing to see some take that doesnt vilify the actual act of tunneling or calls it skill less. It's normal chases that are chained closer together (ofc theres the first hook camping but thats not the topic).
Survivors always boast about "chases being the fun part" but these complaints shows that "winning chases and escape" is the real thing they want. ( /weeb Lol isnt that the character arc for darkshine in OPM? /weeb ). I think killers are just a little more honest with "just wanting to 4k".
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Or we undo the nerfs to rbt and condemn?
Jeez.
Sad how every discussion about strong and weak killer is about nerfing the stronger.
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"It's not Pyramid Head just because the 4 is kinda pointy!" The theories around anniversary 4 were fun.
The anti nurse crusade was an experience. People frothing from their mouths all around both sides lol.
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How about survivors just start bleeding out faster and faster if theyre all down and have no means to pick themselves up?
Alternatively, just entity-sacrifice them and end the game.
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I'd say theyd be an useful addition because theyre one of the few additions to actually close the comms gap without buffing comms users.
Identity V version for those interested:
Teamwork is a vital part of the game for Survivors, especially as players progress to higher tiers and levels. While some Survivors choose to team up and coordinate over voice call (typically through Discord or a similar platform), others mostly play solo. Quick Messages become key to managing a team of "randoms": one where the players are unfamiliar with each other and not communicating outside of the game. Each Survivor can carry a maximum of 16 Quick Messages, Hunters a maximum of 8. Quick MeSomething as barebone as "do generators" and "heal me" would nearly be enough for the most part. For example if used by a hooked survior those two can also mean "camping killer" or "unhook me".
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The devs have stated they dont intend to split "survivor" balancing into "solo" and "swf".
Technically we could just give survivors voicechat and the technical differences would be gone. But the problem arent game mechanics, it's the survivor mindset.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650054#Comment_3650054
A 2k isn't a win. 3k is.
Oh god i do hope this "2K = win" does not become a common sentiment among survivors.
As always it's funny to see people see average 60% killrate and think it means win 60% of the time.
That'd work only on survivors for whom escape-chance/rate really equals win-chance/rate.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649709#Comment_3649709
"5-gen tunneling" is the funniest thing to see people complain about, because they are basically saying that they are unable to get 1 gen done before the first chase is over when they have 3 survivors to work on a gen. At some point survivors need to realize they lost because they failed to play better not because the killer did their objective.
I've been thinking and concluded that "at 5 gens" is kinda ridiculous.
"At 5 gens" is anything between 7 gens at 0% and 7 gens at 99%.
Additionally It's not like theyre just working on one generator with one survivor at a time. By the time it takes to do that first gen to turn the 5 into a 4, there could be enough gens primed to skip the 4 right to the 2, or even a 1 if the killer has a bad run.
It's like the complaints about survivors dying too early as if they were the ones to choose how long they can stay in the trial.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405078/should-anti-facecamping-be-buffed
What should we 'buff' the anti-FACEcamping to be? Anti-Camping?
New Anti-Camping mechanic! If the Killer exists on the same map as a hooked Survivor; That Survivor no longer progresses hook states & can unhook themselves freely!
Let's throw in a new anti-tunnel: Survivors are immune to being hit again after they leave the hook, unless the Killer hooks everyone else, or 45 minutes pass. They can freely heal, sabo hooks, bodyblock, & do gens without losing this immunity!
Hell! Let's throw in that other brain-trust's idea, too!
Survivors who are sacrificed come back as completely immune ghosts who can do gens & follow the Killer around to report on his actions via Discord! And the Killer has no way to stop them! Because apparently Survivors deserve literal-freaking-immunity if the Killer has the temerity to actually kill them!
You remember that ghost suggestion wrong. They generally want amongus-style ghosts still capable of doing gens.
Cant believe theres ever someone supporting these but here we are.
This community is weirdly survivor biased: Forcing killer to mindlessy stupidly swap targets all the time is fine and dandy, but do the same for survivors it's getting ridiculed to hell.
Survivors cry about tunnel and dont even get theyre just as focused on single targets one at a time.
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Just make Spirit 115%, problem solved, next.
If this was a survivor discussion you'd all be rambling about needing to buff the weaker one. But it's about strong killers so you're demanding nerfs instead.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648665#Comment_3648665
Ignoring the other response to you because it's a little unhelpful, it is relevant that the game is asymmetrical. When it comes to tactics taken towards objectives, you have to compare the killer player's actions to the survivor team's actions.
Genrushing involves the team splitting up and spreading pressure, so if the killer team were to do that, they wouldn't be tunnelling.
Tunnelling involves concentrating pressure on one objective, so if the survivor team were to do that, they'd all be grouping up on one generator one at a time.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648691#Comment_3648691
This is another place where the game being asymmetrical matters. A survivor working on a generator from 0% to 100% without stopping is not even close to the equivalent of a killer hard focusing down one guy, because it's not reflective of actual objective focus from the survivor side.
Please dont take it the wrong way because i dont know how else to explain.
It's kinda dishonest to say a it's only genrushing when the whole team is doing it. What about the abundant cases when survivors arent a team? I heard 4man swfs are rare, according to the community. If i were feeling petty i'd go as far to say it's as bullshit an argument as "A survivor is not hacking if theyre only one hacking"
A team of 4 focusing down 4 gens isnt the same as a killer being told to spread his attention on 4 targets. None of the survivor players is spreading their attention to more than 1 gen.
The community is fine with survivors focusing down a single target
As for the whole team on one gen? Thats less efficient than having each survivor going for different gens, it'd only be quicker once multiple gens are already finished. But theyre still not stopping doing a gen to swap to another.
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Right after killer can unhook finished generators. Dont you know it's asymmetrical? Try healing a survivor, or losing the killer in a chase. Don't see gens doing that. (Dayum, now i kinda wanna see gens deadhard and decisive strike survivors.)
Gonna edit my original post to show i wasnt even comparing survivors to gens, but the killer.