Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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Maybe you won so much that your MMR adjusted and now you face people above your actual weightclass? Play some more to get it adjusted to your actual comfort zone.
I mean you saw people say something similar about killers, so why would anyone be surprised it happens to survivors too?
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60% killrate isnt 60% killer win rate...
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"It's okay that survivors can ragequit without penalty"
PPeople are weird. Imagine if killers were free to just rq like sirvivors, no penalty, no bp for survs, just game ending. This community would instantly riot and demand the dc penalty back.
IIts baffling that suicide-to-ignore penalty is still a thing.
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WWhy are we treating the game as if survivors could draw in the match. They die (lose) or escape (win). It's currently not possible for them to draw against anyone.
As for killers, after lots of gaslighting and conditioning in the f irst 3 years of the game,survivors made killers accept a 3k being a win too (despite there being no "win-reward" for doing so). For a killer win to occur, they need 3 or 4 kills. Anything less is a loss.
AAnd now comes the disingenious part.
PPeople see x % rate and demand 50:50...
SSurvivor: 50% escape, 50% die
Killer : 50% lose, draw%, (50-draw)win%
PPeople wanna judge survs individually but force nonexistant team judgement onto killers.
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If only there were 3 other entities in a trial perfectly capable of picking the slug up... damn that'd be helpful.
Your idea would kill any need for other survivors to even bother getting off their gens or out their lockers. Either the slug gets hooked or picks itself up.
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Dont reward the bad behavior!!!!!!!
How is changing "wait for th other idiot to die" to "wait 2 minutes" any better? All it does is remove the possibility of delaying the hatch spawn with slugging. (If this is a thinly veiled anti slugging build, you couldve just said so).
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3rd and 4th survivor waste time by not doing anything except wait for the other to die first, killer bad right?
Why is this the killer's fault again?
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TTechnically the actual problem is the discrepancy between survivor posture and their hitbox.
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TThey should just scrap his current kit and 1:1 copy full power Hell Ember from Identity V, lol.
IIt'd make survivors even madder.
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CCons:
SSurvivors will zry to gaslight you into not doing their favorite strategy on gens.
SeSeriously both sides are okay to focus on a specific objective, not just survs.
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Yes, despite being a strong tool. For two reasons:
- Solo and Swf would be 100% equal. Anyone thinking theres more to the "solo-swf-gap" just wants massive survivor buffs.
- Comms as a game mechanic would be subject to or reason for balance changes, unlike the current situation of it being third party.
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Damn im old I was expecting the circle-of-the-moon carmilla dress.
Hillbilly totally should get a mad butcher (from ecclesia) costume, it'd be perfect! Maybe even as seperate killer!
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OOh the comms cope is unreal. A single "do gens hes on me" (or similar) invalidates the whole "just chatting" argument.
SwSwf are exactly balanced as solo because the devs only balance for "survivor", yet swfs are more likely to use comms. And iirc survs dont want ingame comms, but the results spoonfed as basekit mechanics, which isnt closing the gap but just buffing survivors.
AAnd for gods sake, asym =\= unbalanced. "One strong unit vs many weak unit" and all that. The game wouldnt work at all if a single survivor was equal to the killer.
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"Survivors now are instantly sacrificed if all of them are incapacitated and have no means of standing up"
There "excessive" slugging fixed.
AAnyways, stop badmouthing killers who want that 4k. Its jarring especially because survivors are constantly crying they dont escape.
TThey should be happy with doing their quarter of work on gens and just stop trying afterwards, thats what this argument sounds like. Your dog doesnt get euthanized if you dont do 2 gens. (Unlike sirvivors, this is sarcasm)
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Alternatively:
Get picked up by another survivor!
You dont need to punish the killer just because survivors are unwilling to help each other.
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Ugh. Yeah yeah. 61% of all survivors die on average in all trials ever. Great.
How many of those are 3 or 4 deaths in a single trial? Killrate isnt killerwin rate.
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Maybe the 110% concept just isnt working anymore and killers now need 115% plus a "strong ability that normally was reserved for 110% killers in the past."
And if people tell me that 110% isnt that much of a difference, then why dont we give them 115% if it's irrelevant?
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Didnt the devs state that they wont balance swf and solo differently?
I mean… let's be honest for a second here. There is no difference between solo and swf that the devs are responsible for. Every difference is the actions and behavior of the players and not the game mechanics. YOU dont care for others escapes unless theyre your friends.
As for survivor in general needing a nerf? nah, imagine the backlash if some basekit stuff got nerfed. I'd rather have all killers (characters)get buffed to the level of the top 3 (the top 3 characters) like survivors keep yapping about making solo (4 random bad players) as strong as swf (good players).
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Cant wait for survivors to start repeating " you only need 8 hooks (let us escape)" instead of "you only need 3 kills (let us escape)".
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719650#Comment_3719650
Honestly? I don't really see killing yourself on the hook as a big deal anymore. It's happened in so many instances in the past year that it honestly doesn't matter anymore. You've also got depipping removed so that's not really affected. I just see it as an opportunity to mess around with the killer or practice loops or map chases with the killer. Usually they understand as well but others just want to get into the next game, and that's completely fine.
The whole issue with hooks is that you can't really stop people from leaving cause they can just DC anyway, it would appear to be a healthy update but at the same time it wouldn't.
"Not doing objectives, "suspiciously often failing hook skillchecks"... put them in a low prio or ragequitter queue unnanounced or show it to the other survs after the game so they can be reported."Take your above statement for example, that would bring more complaints about gen rushing, sometimes killers do need a break too (even though it's a PVP game), I don't even mind doing all 5 gens if I have to as well as finding time to take a good chase and prolong the game as much as possible so the inexperienced players can get used to the game. Reporting them with a system like that also brings into question of targeted harassment and bullying, of course as adults we look past that but it can have long lasting mind altering effects on someone. The game has a maturity rating of M (17 years old) but let's be real, children of all ages play games nowadays. At the end of the day everyone wants to just have fun on the game right? If they don't enjoy it they'll always find a way to leave. The root cause of why they quit should be looked at, not punishing players further because they quit. I still believe the cooldown for DC'ing is still optimal too, it gives you time to calm down for a while and get back into the gaming mindset.
Oh. Dont get me wrong, people should and currently are free to leave at any time. Nothings stopping people from pressing "leave" and letting a probably less counterproductive bot take over.
But people should not be able to circumvent the penalty coupled with doing so. People suicide on hook because its the method of ragequitting that doesnt get punished.
So either punish suicides or make them unable to.
The stuff about tracking when survs do not "play the game" were quick ideas on how to deal with people finding other ways to grief once they cant ragequit for free anymore. Never claimed those to be good ideas.
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WWow. Look at all these people defending survivors not getting consequences for their ragequits.
The devs can track if survivors havent moved for a while. They could do much more. Display afk crows in the hud. Add crows when survivors dont do objectives after 80 seconds.
Not doing objectives, "suspiciously often failing hook skillchecks"... put them in a low prio or ragequitter queue unnanounced or show it to the other survs after the game so they can be reported.
OOr just remove the suicide. Can be done even without removing self unhook.
You wouldnt be forced to play, you logged in for it. You'd still be free to leave... and live with the consequences.
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Doing the remaining gens isnt impossible.
Its more tedious and risky than "hiding to wait for that other hiding survivor to die first and jump in the shortcut hatch" Especially if the second to last survivor instantly ragequits on the hook.
While useless items should be reworked, i dont think hatch needs to be made easier.
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ITs not like survivors didnt spend the last 5 years gaslighting and conditioning killers into giving them the hatch reguIarily.
"You dont need the 4k" and all that.
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BBut solo and swf only have one difference:
- Chhosing the teammates
EEverything else is people seeing "good players choosing to play wizh good players and good comms usage" and demand those results be available for themselves without needing the the good usage.
CClockwork callouts? Make it free aura reading!
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MMaking survivors automatically respawn somewhere instead of dying will kill survivor-survivor interaction and turn all survivors into "genrushers". No pressure when you dont need to get off the gen to save a survivor.
Something similar was one of the changes that killed deathgarden.
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TThe problem isnt swf. solo and swf are the same. Theres no difference ingame. (Choosing to play with "better" players isnt a game balance problem in itself)
The problem starts with swf being more likely to use comms. And good players using those comms effectively.
The average joe in "solo hell" (no comms random team) then sees the better performance by better players who play with better teams with better comms usage and demands that to be made basekit.
AArguably its technically possible that 4 competent players make the survivor role overperform but i dont wanna start shitstorm of a discussion.
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IIts not like its a wall hack right?
CConsidering theres already a huge crowd of players using third party apps to
gain advantages,talk about the weather, I'd say the other team might be just as inclined to fiddle with their sounds settings to protect their esrs from those loud hook screams. Lol. -
I dont think the game gets balanced around something that apparantly happens quite rarely, according to our community. Theres also to consider that the devs cant balance around something that isnt part of the game. They still need to balance around noncommunication as there arent any ingame communication tools.
I think we'd notice the devs balancing around something as strong as comms. If i were being snarky, I'd say that survivors are quite content with comms being outside the balance.
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Identity V has survivors get afk crows when not doing conspicious actions for 80 seconds, which will only be removed by doing such actions.
Dont reward survivors for actively not trying to do their objective.
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Easy solution:
If a survivor hasnt touched an objective for 5 seconds within the last 1-2minutes, they get tagged by crows.
Now survivors cant just "wait till the others die" safely anymore.
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Instead of waiting for the hatch you could do gens or gates?
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Just make obvious suiciding trigger the penalty. Problem one solved.
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WWhy the hell would you balance any game about one side not even trying?
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Cant unsee the dabbing escape icon.
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HHow about this easy solution?
If all remaining survivors are somehow incapacitated without means to get up, they instantly get entity sacrificed.
(Escaped, dead, sacrificed, downed, hookstate2)
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PErks are better on better characters, who wouldve thought?
Just buff the other killers on par with the top 10?
It works for the survivor discurse on buffing survivor so bad players can keep up with good players on comms. Making all killers perform similar so the perks would have the same performance on all of them would seem fair, right?
Its funny how nerfing comes only up in killer balance discussions. Making perks worse wont help worse killers lol.
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When killing yourself is solely done to get out of the match without receiving the disconnect penalty then killing yourself should either not be possible or receive the same penalty as a normal disconnect.
The reasons as to why the ragequitters do soe are irrelevant to this discussion.
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I remember when DHDSBT reigned surpreme and no survivor cared for killer fun.
Why should the killer now?
And I assure you, if any changes made survivors the role with balance advantage again, they wouldnt care and shoot down complains with "but the killer didnt" too.
Tunneling in particular is choosing specific targets. Are we really gonna hardcode mechanics to force killers to go after worse targets? How about a hitlist with qn order and every other survivor is immune? Totally balanced right, fellow survivor mains? /s
(Great so can we force survivors to swap gens every 20 seconds? Its only fair to restrict every teams agency. /s)
Is proxy camping the new facecamping? It appears survivors dislike -camping reagrdless of prefix.... totally permissable dtrategy btw.
Just because it's a strategy that works against you doesnt mean it's unhealthy or needs to be *ugh* removed from the game.
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Sadly it's effective strategy and a survivor tool thus You'd be hardpressed to find a lot of people demanding to nerf or remove it. (Btw nerf tunneling, only survs allowed to use working strategy /s)
I'd say it has to sray cuz of player agency and choice.
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We got over 30killers in varying degrees of strenght. I'd say buff anything below top 15 to match atleast the next best one.
Then repeat it for top 10. maybe top 5.
There will always be a best and worst killer but the difference shouldnt be that high.
I apologize for the us vs them but in but Survivors wanna give everything to survivor that makes up the difference between "bad players with random that dont wanna play to win" and "good players in swf with good comms usage". Thats like buffing nurse because I'm not as good as Supaalf. So i dont see why we cant just buff the worse killers, as unlike with survivors, changes to the lower half dont affect the top at all.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681011#Comment_3681011
Camping or tunneling at the start of the game, is just someone trying to win a video game. This is a PvP game, and people are allowed to try to win a PvP game.
And the whole “consideration for the other side” argument is completely invalid, because we still don’t have a list of things survivors should do out of consideration for killers.
Lets go with a tunneling equivalent:
"A survivor shall not focus their attention on a single generator. They need to swap to a different generator each 25-33% of progress, regardless of effiency, lest they rightfully be known as lowskill unpleasantly fragrant genrusher."
As if survivors care for killer fun.
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Nvm.
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@burt0r said:
Worry not my child, just put your faith in our Lord and Savior Lightborn 😎 and all your worries will fade.
Im still amazed there arent more people complaining about the total immunity of lightborn.
Killers need a Lightborns(tm) sunglasses cosmetic 😆
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I played left 4 dead 2 a lot, and got into the habit to disconnect instead of afk'ing.
Emergency or phonecall? I'd probably disconnect out of habit.
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He needs Gamer-face to become the most popular and get more skins.
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@Lixadonna said:
The Killer lost 4 gens in 4 hooks. Certainly looks bad. They then force themself to win by playing aggressively. Then they get matched up with Survivors they can't compete with then write about it here on the Forums that SWF need nerfing.
No kind of Skill Expression because the design of the game is dictated by Kill Rate. Even bad players get boosted by game design.
Wrong thread this is the survivor complaining about the killer making a comeback.
Anyways the survivors couldve used the hatch to escape or just wait till the killer closes zhe hatch to just walk out the gates. There's your hardcoded comeback mechanics you failed to mention.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678411#Comment_3678411
I dont suggest killers to go mercy, if they try hard as possible, its up to them. I only explain why trying that hard cause mental illness to killers.
Peanits already said, no matter how killers play, they should success half of the time (60% kill rate), which either play Trapper no meta should have similar success to Blight stacking slowdowns and tunneling. Which I dont understand why people sweat so hard get similar results.
Side note: remember to credits who make the drawing you post.
Edited post. I apologize for the art theft.
I dont want to bring up the Killrate discussion here. but the 60% killrate also includes 1k and 2k trials which definitely arent killer wins. Conversely, theres also an escape in a 3k trial. Havent had math lessons for a long time and cant remember much about stochastic/statistics.
I'm pretty sure a Trapper who's not "sweating" shouldnt be similiarily succesful as a killer who does. Same with survivors, those who do not try shouldn't be surprised if their results are lacking compared to those who do.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676636#Comment_3676636
A point that is never mentioned is those killers who used perks (not skill) to boost themselves now expect that this will continue to work. They’re often the loudest, most abrasive voices in these forums and elsewhere. They don’t really want to get better; they want and expect a trump card—in the form of great perks for killers and a lack of good perks, for survivors—to see them through their matches. Like Erupt-Over-Brine.
I dont want to sound confrontional but...
This sounds a lot like how survivors are with DH, BT and especially DS. Except the word "basekit" is used more often than when killers complain.
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@Slowpeach said:
The easiest solution is to simply prevent it outside of guaranteed hook escapes. You can't force people to play against their will but you should be able to disconnect on hook, while being slugged or carried without penalty. That's why people do it after all, they want to go next without penalty for whatever reason.
I say let them. They can be replaced by a bot who actually wants to win. Most of the time I'm delighted to have a bot on my team because I know exactly what to expect and how best to use their strengths.
Better having a bot survivor with one hook state then having nobody at all. Hook suiciding ruins the game for three other people at least and maybe the killer too if they wanted an actual contest though I'll grant some players on both sides just want their 'I win' screen no matter the cost.
It's not even like they 'feed' certain killers like Myers because they instantly know when they are being stalked. They aren't an ideal solution due to all the cheating they do but they aren't that hard to beat and value vaults way too much in chase.
Luck offerings, Up the Ante and Slippery Meat would need to be changed but those perks are some of the least used anyway and for good reason.
Part of me gets the reluctance. They are concerned that people will disconnect en masse against disliked killers such as Nurse and Skull Merchant. Which is why I put the restrictions in there. Worst they can do is immediately run to the killer and deliberately get downed. Beats outright removing one player from the game. I say again 'YOU CANNOT FORCE PLAYERS TO PLAY AGAINST THEIR WILL'. The issue is that if killers are that disliked enough, the problem lies with the design team. Further some players need to learn that this game is not their personal torture house to torment four other individuals relentlessly.
However I don't see it happening. The BHVR team makes it painfully obvious that they only play within their test groups and not out there in the wilderness and have no idea the cruelty some players (on both sides) enforce on others on a daily basis. Cruelty which would have real life consequences if they actually tried it against a human being they knew face to face. If they did, certain perks, killers, features would have been changed ages ago.
Getting killed is part of the game, but you're right. Nobody is forcing them to play, they did so by their own will and got salty they died although its part of the game. Then they raged and left the game they wanted to play, did play, but lost and got angry about it.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678369#Comment_3678369
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677967#Comment_3677967
If a survivor down twice before a Gen done, thats a hint that survivor's skill is lower than killer, and its not necessary for killer to tunnel to able to win.
Killers who tunnel against lower skill teams, are also those that complain about higher skill teams that finish 3-4 Gens before the first hook. You dont have empathy against weaker team, then dont ask for empathy from the stronger one.
If 3 gens are don before the first hook, that a hint that killer's skill is lower than the survivors', and it's not necessary for survivors to keep doing gens that efficiently. But thats an advantageous situation I'd doubt they wanna give up just to be "nice&fair" to the opponent.
In any game any player would want to stay in the advantageous situation and press the advantage while they have it.
So why are we expecting killers to be the only ones to show empathy or slow down when survivors won't return the courtesy given the chance?
(EDIT: art by @C3Tooth , check their art, its cute. (although most of us here know this already)
I'd recommend stop treating the killer as some game master or referee and more like the direct opponent they are.
And a survivor can definitely still win at 5 gens. They can still hop in the hatch or walk out the gates.