Rapid99
Rapid99
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946700#Comment_3946700
I left that part out because it is objectively untrue.
Completely denying that tunneling is the meta is certainly a choice.
The only variable with tunneling is where or not the killer can tunnel the first survivor out of the game faster than the gens can be completed. It makes the game a race. And usually it's a race the killer can win, since people swear by this strategy, and even go so far as to say it's "required".
Since I made it clear that this is the context I was talking about, it's generally incredibly unlikely that a hard tunneling killer is completely unsuccessful in getting even one kill. In fact, according to nightlight, only 23.8% of games end in a 0k. So there's at least a 76.2% chance that the first survivor hooked isn't going to escape, and if they're just tunneled... They get chased to death, which was my entire point.
That's far from "objectively untrue", as you put it.
You say that, wait until they implement it and then this forum will be flooded with "Not enough ban slots" posts. It's going to happen.
I doubt they're going to implement bans at all, but your response is a textbook slippery slope argument.
My point is that there are solutions available. Whether or not they are implemented, or in what capacity is a different discussion. But that's just of the top of my head, and for literally accessibility reasons, as I said.
One bad chase does not equal instantaneous win for the killer. It's just objectively untrue.
If you read what I actually wrote, I said if one bad chase means the entire match is over. I never said or implied that it automatically wins, rather that strong early pressure often leads to snowballing to a win in the current state of the game.
Which, again, in the context of hard tunneling means that the killer is winning the race. If you know that no one has touched a gen and you're on hook already, there's really not a significant chance of that match turning around.
If the killer can get someone out of the match and more than 1 gen remains, that's effectively game over.
That's why people tunnel, it's insanely strong early. That's not "objectively untrue".
Unless, of course, you're taking the stance that tunneling is somehow worthless, but I doubt that.
That's far from "objectively untrue", as you put it.
Neither what me or you said had to do with tunneling. I said the notion that "one bad first chase and the game is over" is objectively untrue.
Because it is. Especially since even if you're tunneling, it can still not be over and even better if the killer isn't tunneling it DEFINITELY isn't over.
Which is the point, the survivor is leaving off the bad first chase, they have zero indication if the killer is tunneling. Which this isn't what the topic is about because I've already stated multiple times there's reasonable reasons to leave and unreasonable. Leaving before you even know if the killer is tunneling or not and just off a single chase? Unreasonable.
That's not "objectively untrue".
You keep quoting that even though you're applying it to something I never was talking about. It's disingenuous and misquoting me, please don't do that.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947357#Comment_3947357
sadako is a special case where spamming tv's can just kill survivors if RNG is in her favor and xeno gets screwed since his turrets detect him
also i use headphones so i can just hear the doors and footsteps over the gen sounds usually and on top of that i keep my camera facing towards the door just in case i don't hear it
Well that only works with sadako if the survivors are straight up brand new to the game.
But again if you can't see the keypad, and you react to audio alone it's a free hit because you can't physically get far enough. He pops out too quickly.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947305#Comment_3947305
wait but if the door is close enough that you need to react to it you can either see the door opening which the door is either directly across from the gen or close by enough to hear the door itself open and subsequent footsteps which i remind you are very loud and as a consequence makes me pre run everytime i hear something other than a generator on principle
No. Something like a jungle gym tile, the door will be on the other side of the wall that has the window, while the gen is by the pallet. You can't hear the door because the gen drowns it out plus it's on the other side of a wall, so it's just a free hit.
There's also the problem of if the keypad isn't facing you so you can see the light flashing and know he's coming to you, you won't be able to get far enough reacting to just the door sound alone because he comes out so fast from it. It's not like xeno or sadako where it takes them time to actually hop out of the tunnel / tv. He just straight pops out and you have no time to get any distance.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947314#Comment_3947314
I feel like your best bet with that last part is just keep in mind the location of the door near your gen so when you hear the sound effect... you can get ready to book it. Hopefully they get the hot fix out soon so we can really discuss this better.
I went ahead and tested alot of the multifloor maps using Sadako just now by starting custom matches over and over and over again to compare her new TV spawn logic with the gens. After doing it like 20 times, I only saw 1 single TV that was jacked up. Every other one was pretty consistent with being similar distance to gen and same floor. This should carry over to Springtrap and Xeno too since im pretty sure they have the same spawn locations.
All I know is I played springtrap and got gideon one time… at least 4 of the doors were in an opposite room, where the wall is blocked off the gen powered sliding doors. It was terrible.
I've also seen multiple maps now, especially maps that have a 2 floor main building, the door is either directly next to the gen in the main building or it's on the first floor and completely useless.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947297#Comment_3947297
Well, to be fair, I am not saying it needs to function the same way Minecraft allows to access old content. BHVR can come up with their own way of doing so, I just think it needs to be done.
And this might come as a surprise, but it is actually killer I want to play in an old version. Because it seems to be the only way I'll ever play my all-time favorite killer again, OG Freddy.
Well in that case, yea it makes sense to play as an old version of a killer that no longer exists.
But I honestly full believe that as soon as most killer players try it, who aren't just playing for the sake of reliving an old version of a killer… they are going to quit quick. Soon as that first dead hard for distance happens, soon as that object of obsession is permanently spying on them, soon as that first infinite happens? Done for.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947281#Comment_3947281
I feel like atm its hard to tell how stealthy he's SUPPOSE to be. There's 2 pretty major bugs thats adding to the problem. It could very well be very similar to Xeno or Sadako levels once those get ironed out.
I mean hey, I don't even have a problem with his damn near permanent undetectable, I genuinely think it fits who springtrap is as a character. My only problem is the doors being either oppressively close and guaranteeing a hit, or just… completely useless to the springtrap because it's in a place where you need to waste lengthy time just to even reach the gen the door is meant to be near.
Plus I do think it's weird that most killers have a directional map wide audio cue, like xeno and sadako which you mentioned. Even demo as well for that matter. And he just has… nothing. He has the door opening sound and it can easily be drowned out if it's around a wall with a gen going off. While also coming out of his tp much faster than either sadako, xeno, and demo.
The only map wide tell is like the sound of the air in the map getting sucked out where it just goes quiet for a bit, but that's not directional. You just know he is tping somewhere.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947126#Comment_3947126
he's really loud when stomping in stealth outside of audio bugs
Ok but again, my point is the door is so close that you NEED to react to the door itself and even sometimes if it's close enough it isn't enough.
By the time you hear footsteps, he's already on top of you and it's a free hit. That's the problem.
The door spawns are way too volatile. They are either perfect, way too close, or completely screwing over the springtrap by being in an entirely different room (like gideon) or on a completely different floor from the gen.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947271#Comment_3947271
I want my Blue and green auras !!!
Been wanting blue auras for god knows how long atp.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947293#Comment_3947293
But that is the double-edged sword, isn't it?
Because you can't take it away, even if you want to. There isn't a choice, as soon as you boot up the game, to choose an old version (like Minecraft has, for instance).
And if you prefer the current version of the game, everything is alright, there is nothing to complain about. If you don't, however… tough luck, nothing you can do about it.
Problem is if you make a classic version, you're going to butcher queues.
Survivors will go back to the classic where the game was better for them.
And killers will stay here where the game is better for them.
I don't see how they could reliably do that, or maintain it because quite frankly I think people take current dbd for granted and have completely forgotten just how abysmal old dbd was.
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Here we go another survivor player who got to used to having immensely broken things and a lob-sided game so now that they don't have those tools or the immensely lob-sided game, the game is now just "unplayable" and "What has happened to my precious dead by daylight!!! The horror!!!"
Like look I get it'll take some time to get used to, especially if you're coming off a break but it's genuinely not as bad as you make it out to be.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947126#Comment_3947126
If thats the case you still have the loud steps telling you where he is and also have aura reading on the door to let you know where he is coming from. Like idk what more do people need. Like a formal written letter that the killer will tp to your gen?, like demo already does that and his tp is as surprising as a planned wedding and as effective as using tic tacs for pneumonia.
Also, if RNG killers are bad design which to an extend I agree, springtrap is not an isolated issue, the following killers have RNG into their tps:
Dredge
Xeno
Sadako
And the following killers have RNG dependant mechanics:
Vecna
Pig
Plague
Wesker
Nemesis
Trapper
Pyramid head
So seeing as 1/4 of killers in this game have to have this, then this is all just bad character design (which if you agree to then yeah you are consistent, nothing to argue if thats the case) or we are just complaining about springtrpa because he is just the new shinny toy thats aout right now.
What do loud footsteps matter if he's going to be in my mouth by the time it even registers his footsteps??? It's a free hit.
Dredge
Xeno
Sadako
And the following killers have RNG dependant mechanics:
Vecna
Pig
Plague
Wesker
Nemesis
Trapper
Pyramid head
So seeing as 1/4 of killers in this game have to have this, then this is all just bad character design (which if you agree to then yeah you are consistent, nothing to argue if thats the case) or we are just complaining about springtrpa because he is just the new shinny toy thats aout right now.
Dredge lockers are a problem yes.
Xeno portals are only a problem if it screws the xeno over. It can't screw survivors over because there is not only a mapwide notification, it's 10x more audible AND he's slower coming out of the tunnel so it isn't just some free hit.
Sadako tv's aren't a problem because she comes out of the TV slower than springtrap. There's also a map wide notification, louder directional audio cue, AND massive visual cues that play around the TV that are very visible. It's only a problem if the TV's put the sadako in an entirely different room or floor.
Vecna's magic items aren't necessary to play against him.
Pig's spawns aren't an active detriment to either side.
Wesker and nemesis fall under the same thing… the chest spawns aren't an active detriment. They are not securing free hits like a springtrap door, there's also multiple in a trial.
Trapper should've spawned with all his traps basekit, years ago.
Pyramid head?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947170#Comment_3947170
Okay, so you have zero interest in this topic, you don't want to learn anything and you certainly don't care if people stop quitting out of matches.
You're just here to vent more 'survs bad'.
Do it in any of the other plethora of 'survs bad' topics. This one is productive.
It's crazy how that's not what I said.
If you would've read anything I've said in this topic I've made it very clear.
You cannot fix survivors leaving because it's a killer they don't like. You cannot fix survivors leaving if they have a bad first chase. You cannot fix survivors leaving if their TEAMMATE has a bad first chase.
The same way you cannot fix a killer leaving if they have a bad first chase as well. You cannot fix a killer leaving because 1 too many gens popped.
That is the majority of leavers. You can't fix it. You can do all the anti-tunneling, anti-camping, and anti-slugging mechanics you want. You'll fix maybe the 10% - 15% of why people leave. The grand majority of the reasons why people leave will still be there because the reasons most leave are not for the reasonable reasons, it's for the unreasonable ones.
That is why I say, yes… stop playing. Because you've reached a point where something as dumb as it being a killer you dislike or a bad first chase, just means you're going to up and leave.
STOP PLAYING. Stop ruining the experience for the people who actually care to play the game.
But it's okay I know where your brain lies where somehow out of everything I've said, even though I've put it on killers as well you reached the conclusion of me somehow saying "survs bad" and me hating survivors. Stop acting like a victim please.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947170#Comment_3947170
"Learn nothing, nothing can be fixed, if you don't like it just leave."
What a healthy outlook.
Although, since BHVR seems to be taking the punish them message to heart, I suspect this attitude of yours would change dramatically if they applied this same mentality to literally anything in phase 2.
That's actually not what I said.
Please don't misquote me again.
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Oh no god forbid I get to use a BP offering instead of needing to block map offerings that get spammed every game so I don't play on the same survivor sided maps permanently.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947115#Comment_3947115
Sure, but people don't just quit. Games like this can become a habit, and people wind up fishing for that one good game among many because they don't have anything else to fill the gap. MOBAs are especially bad for this, it's where the whole 'no one likes League of Legends, especially LoL players' meme comes from.
That doesn't change that they SHOULD stop playing and we should stop defending people who quit. If you do not enjoy the game you are trying to play and instead you are ruining the experience for everyone else.
STOP PLAYING. This not debatable. This is not some hot take. You do not ruin the experience for others and then act like what you say matters. I don't care why you DC'd, stop playing the game if you're upset and can't handle the things that happen in the game. And let people actually play the game who CAN handle what happens in it and who actually want to enjoy their time playing without babies giving up instantly because rando #243 tunnel'd them last game.
It's not the problem of your next match's players to deal with your displeasure of how your games go. That is genuinely child like mentality.
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@squbax said:
He does, when he selects a door to tp to, the touchpad of the door he will come out of will start flickering (well actually changing bright intesity). So he gives you a long warning if you are next to the door he selected. Imo this is enough of a warning, between his footsteps being louder than a train and you getting a more than 4 second headstart with the flickering, there is no way you can be surprised by him.
Except if the door is around a corner where being around a wall completely drowns out the noise the door makes. Or if the keypad is just… facing away from the gen so you physically can't see? lol.
The killer right now is entirely based around door RNG. That's not a good design.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946473#Comment_3946473
Going next is those players decision to "stop playing", so they're already doing what you suggest. They stop playing because the game is designed reward killers for low skill cheese tactics, while expecting survivors to be a 4 man squad of pro level loopers using 3rd party applications just to escape a killer that has far less experience and skill than they do.
Hey man with the way you talk the only thing I can tell you is get better and hope you understand because I can already tell, you're too far gone in whatever mentality you've adopted.
And no… leaving mid game and ruining the experience for others is not the same as not playing at all and letting people who actually enjoy the game, to play without your quitter mentality.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946473#Comment_3946473
Someone isn't leaving early due to "deteriorating survivor role" because those things aren't even in effect when people leave.
I don't think that's true.
You can't isolate a singular game and declare that whatever reason the survivor ostensibly might've had to quit is the -only- contributing factor. People don't go into these matches with a clean slate, they do carry baggage from prior games.
If you have three bad matches in a row and you get found and hooked first on your fourth match, it's going to feel a LOT different than if you have three good matches in a row and the same thing happens. It doesn't even have to be something that happens within the game, either. Stressors weighing on your mind in real life can impact the way you interact with games.
In that regard, I don't think it's unreasonable to state that a deteriorating survivor experience is a contributing factor, and I don't think that people quitting out of matches that would be good enough under normal circumstances is solid evidence against it.
So then again… stop playing. Don't play a game you don't enjoy and ruin it for the rest of the people who actually still want to play.
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Well they need to just toss that whole system out. Give every possible gen location a set door spawn that makes sense.
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fire up, discordance, brutal strength, pain res
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946859#Comment_3946859
The biggest issue (the invisibility) is a bug and it will be fixed.
It will be fixed and you'll still have the problem of the door spawn logic being abysmal.
Because the doors have 3 different versions to their spawn:
- Way too close and obscuring the screen on the door so the only way you know is once the door opens, which atp he's just guaranteed a hit
- An actual fair distance
- Screwed by the spawn logic so it's in a completely different room (Gideon) or on a completely different level (2nd floor gen but 1st floor door) so it does nothing for the springtrap.
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@Valimure said:
This was a game changer for me: you can see when he's in the security room. If the green light on the door handle starts blinking, he's en route to that door.
Position yourself so you can see it!The problem is sometimes the door faces away from the gen so you physically can't see. Also certain setups like a jungle gym will have the door on the other side of the wall with the window while the gen is near the pallet as per usual. The door sound is almost entirely muffled on the other side of the wall with the noises of the gen going off AND he's literally invisible coming out. By the time you see him, he's already inside of you.
The door spawn logic is horrific.
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@queencynic said:
"The doors need to either be moved farther away from gens"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3FDCI4L5NZWP/1978b710ead89-screenshoturl.jpg
Whatever do you mean!?
((Seriously though, the doors are placed just ridiculously))
Yea like you'll have something like this where like you're going to get hit guaranteed, there is no ifs ands or buts about it.
On the other hand, I don't know how the spawns work. I don't understand if they just pre-chose certain spots or if they have a certain area around the gen. Because it wouldn't shock me if in another haddonfield game, that door is just all the way downstairs and does nothing for the springtrap.
It's just so bad whatever spawn logic it's using right now.
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Map offerings got nerfed. It's now only a 20% chance to get the map you used an offering for.
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Thank god, maybe now I can play something that isn't eerie, autohaven, or macmillan.
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When multihooking actually has a reason to do it and isn't just a straight detriment to do. That's not to say that it will cure tunneling entirely, of course there will still be the people who do it anyway. But I can tell you from personal experience, killers don't want to tunnel, there's just no reason to do the alternative other than "playing fair".
Until the gap is closed between how survivor sided the game is in the 4v1 and how killer sided it is 3v1 and below. Killers will keep tunneling because it gets them into the favored numbers game quicker. Multihooking leaves them in the survivor favored numbers game for longer.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946664#Comment_3946664
Thanks for clarifying! I think I understand your stance better now. I agree that there will always be unreasonable players who throw matches or give up for frustrating or petty reasons, and you're right: that part isn’t really fixable. But I don’t think that means we should give up on addressing the reasonable frustrations just because they might be the minority.
Even then, I’d say the line between “reasonable” and “unreasonable” isn’t always so clear-cut. But assuming for argument’s sake that most go-nexts are unreasonable, the next question becomes: what’s the solution?
Personally, I think BHVR has already started answering that. Removing the ability to unhook yourself and prolonging the second stage, those are mechanical changes specifically designed to reduce how easily someone can “go next.” It doesn’t eliminate it entirely (nothing could), but it makes it harder to throw. (though the current AFK system needs some work but they will continue to make tweaks as time goes on) The next logical step is to look at the reasonable frustrations that are driving people to give up in the first place. And from what we’ve seen, BHVR is already doing that too, with upcoming anti-camp, anti-slug, and anti-tunnel changes.
So in a way, isn't this the best possible scenario? The devs are discouraging giving up through mechanical changes while also planning updates to address deeper, more valid frustrations. And if that’s the case, then I think we’re on the same page here: yes, some players are unreasonable, but that doesn’t mean all feedback should be ignored. We can’t solve everything, but we can improve what’s fixable.
Am i understanding your stance correctly? Does this feel like we've reached a common ground?
They already implemented the solution. Stop people from being able to unhook, though I will say they need to remove that whole caveat of "if you bring a luck thing you can give up still!" and just remove it. It completely dodges the point of the system. I have people bringing luck offerings for the first time in DBD history, JUST so they have the option to give up. Rework the perks based around luck.
But yes I do agree with your point, you can alleviate frustration for what they can control. Honestly what they need to do to alleviate the frustration is what they should've done years ago. Make multihooking the main way to win.
That is my problem with the whole anti-tunneling stuff. I don't disagree that they should add these anti-whatever systems. My problem is that while they do that, they aren't making multihooking any better. They want multihooking to be the main playstyle (both devs and the players tbh) but multihooking still sucks. They haven't made it stronger. Multihooking is still a detriment to do because they haven't fixed the main thing which is:
The game is severely survivor sided in the 4v1, but then dramatically killer sided in the 3v1, so killers will do the playstyle that secures a kill the fastest / easiest to get them into the numbers game that is killer favored. They need to close that gap. Just adding anti-tunnel, anti-camping, and anti-slugging features won't fix the main problem. It's a bandaid fix that only helps one side, when they could be making both sides feel better to play.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946618#Comment_3946618
I'm sorry, but no. This outlook is just not even trying to examine the issues or why they happen.
Someone having a bad first chase, is unfixable.
Sure, but you're leaving out the part where having a bad first chase also means the match is over for you. Full stop, you just didn't get to play, and literally good luck next. That part is fixable.
Someone not liking a certain killer, is unfixable.
This depends on why. You're right that someone with actual coulrophobia is going to hate clown, or someone who can't stand puking noises from plague isn't exactly a situation you can fix. But the roster is also big enough that giving people one "killer ban" and "map ban" slot is actually feasible.
But let's be honest here, a lot of the most hated killers come about because they're usually overtuned, or simply have a low skill floor and aren't exactly designed to be fun to face. Permanent mending against a legion or getting 3 genned by a skull merchant were design issues with the game and those killers, and the devs letting things get out of control (chess merchant) leads to this more often.
Someone's teammate having a bad chase, so THEY go up to the killer and suicide, is unfixable.
Yet if the matchmaker worked as it should, you likely wouldn't get 20 hour teammates. And again, if one bad chase means that the entire match is over, which is where we are today, then that part should be fixable.
The match shouldn't ever be completely decided in the first 60-90 seconds, unless there's a gigantic, massive skill discrepancy between teams. That also goes into matchmaking, but also balance, to where any killer with a pulse shouldn't be capable of going toe to toe with competitive teams (again, chess merchant).
And I keep bringing up the chess merchant example, simply because there are a number of people on these forums who seem to desperately want that kind of (im)balance back in the game - where slamming your face on the damage generator button is the only "skill" you need to effectively win every match.
There is room for improvement here, but if you're just going to throw up your hands and declare the problems to be unfixable... That sounds like giving up, which is, ironically, the exact problem we're talking about.
you're leaving out the part where having a bad first chase also means the match is over for you.
I left that part out because it is objectively untrue.
But the roster is also big enough that giving people one "killer ban" and "map ban" slot
isactually feasible.You say that, wait until they implement it and then this forum will be flooded with "Not enough ban slots" posts. It's going to happen.
Yet if the matchmaker worked as it should, you likely wouldn't get 20 hour teammates. And again, if one bad chase means that the
entire match is over, which is where we are today, then that partshould befixable.Ok… again.
One bad chase does not equal instantaneous win for the killer. It's just objectively untrue.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946618#Comment_3946618
There is no question that certain players will rage quit for absolutely no good reason. This is not limited to either role, nor is it limited to this particular game. It's nota a DBD issue, it's a human being issue. I understand your point, that some players quit for unreasonable or petty reasons. I agree that those specific situations aren’t things the devs can realistically fix, and that kind of behavior is frustrating.
But those examples shouldn’t erase the more valid cases where frustration builds up over time. The fact that some people quit over “nothing” doesn’t mean everyone is doing it for no actual frustrating reason, and it doesn’t mean the game is above improvement. That logic feels a bit like saying, “Because some people are unreasonable, no changes are worth making” which doesn’t hold up. That wouldn't have been the right solution back then, and it isn't the right solution now. We can acknowledge that some players will always act irrationally and still recognize that certain specific issues contribute to people giving up.
It’s not about this illusion that we can somehow fix every rage quit. It's about reducing the most contributing factor(s) into why it happens. And the way you do that is by addressing the core frustrations that push reasonable players to their limit. Not every DC is petty, but that doesn't mean it's right. You can do the wrong thing for the right reasons. And you can do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons as well. Ignoring all criticism just because some of it is unreasonable is not a good reason to ignore chances for improvement.
I don't agree that it's right to point to the existence of some unreasonable behavior and use it to dismiss the validity of any effort to improve things. With that kind of logic the game would simply never change because there will always be unreasonable humans.
I'm not saying that changes aren't worth making. I'm saying that a MAJORITY of the reasons why people quit are unfixable. The reasons I listed why people quit happen 10x more. I've seen it playing both killer and playing survivor. Hell, I'm typing this after I JUST had my teammates give up with 3 of us alive and on one gen left (and not even in a 3 gen either). You can't solve that and it's the majority.
You can make sweeping changes to fix the minority of reasons why someone would quit but the majority will still be there and it won't go away.
There are more unreasonable go next's, compared to reasonable go next's. You can fix the reasonable ones but the "go next" epidemic isn't about the reasonable ones. It's about the unreasonable ones. The unsolvable ones.
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So basically everything that benefits survivors isn't strong enough…
Everything that is negative for them is too far…
Surely this isn't a bias post?
No but on a real note, until you guys can suggest a way to detect tunneling so that DS isn't just a free evasion of a kill even if it isn't tunneling in the end game and all the other anti-tunneling perks too? No. It should stay disabled.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946473#Comment_3946473
Respectfully, I think there’s a big difference between defending the “go next” mindset and trying to understand why it’s happening in the first place. You can recognize a harmful behavior without excusing it, and trying to unpack the reasons behind it isn’t ignorance, it’s how progress is made. If you don’t understand what’s driving people to disengage, you have no real way of preventing it from continuing
This isn’t about making excuses or encouraging people to throw games. It’s about facing the uncomfortable truth that dissatisfaction isn’t exclusive to survivors and that many “go next” behaviors are symptoms of deeper frustration. Saying “just stop playing” ignores that frustration entirely. Worse, it dismisses feedback that could actually lead to improvement.
The same could have been said to killer players years ago, back when the game was heavily tilted in the survivors’ favor and killers had to deal with extremely frustrating mechanics. But thankfully, those concerns weren’t dismissed as entitlement. The devs listened, changes were made, and now the killer role is in a much healthier place because of it. That same understanding shouldn’t disappear now just because it's survivors who are now frustrated.
DBD is a game built on change. New perks, new killers, new mechanics, the game is constantly evolving. That means the conversation around balance and frustration should evolve too. Understanding why something is happening isn’t justification,it’s the first step toward solving it.
And to be blunt: DBD doesn’t tend to change until something forces it to. Exploits, broken perk combos, and dramatic shifts in behavior are what usually prompt action. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’re now getting anti-tunnel, anti-camp, and anti-slugging updates (whatever they end up being) right after the go-next wave. These tactics have existed since the game’s launch, but it’s only now—after mass pushback and visibility that meaningful changes are being made.
It’s unfortunate that it takes things reaching a breaking point to spark change. But that’s always been how DBD works. And whether you agree with the go-next mindset or not, pretending the frustration behind it isn’t real or based on anything substantial doesn't help anything progress forward.
My point is the things people list as changes necessary or changes that have happened that negatively impact survivor are things that don't even OCCUR at the time people DC.
Someone having a bad first chase, is unfixable. Someone not liking a certain killer, is unfixable. Someone's teammate having a bad chase, so THEY go up to the killer and suicide, is unfixable.
You can't do anything about those scenarios and those are the ones that tend to happen the most. I play killer and those happen CONSTANTLY. They will give up over the most non-existent problems achievable. You can make a bunch of improvements but at the end of the day, these people aren't even making it far enough into the game for those improvements you suggest to change anything. They just don't like the game not starting out perfect or meeting their conditions (a killer and map they enjoy).
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946490#Comment_3946490
You know what the other communities will say? The same thing I say… stop playing and move on instead of ruining the experience of those who actually still enjoy it and want to play.
To be honest, I think this wouldn't really address the problem.
Let me give you an example: I am not sure if you were around for the Realm Beyond changes, but if you were someone who really enjoyed aspects of the Old DBD, like I do, the peak of the Realm Beyond changes was a miserable time to be playing the game. Basically, you would see everything you liked being changed, to a point where it felt as if you're not playing DBD anymore.
And during those days, I complained a lot. A fellow Forum member, someone I consider a good friend and a positive presence here, suggested that maybe I should take a break, just step away from DBD for a while because it seemed I wouldn't enjoy the direction the game was going. Now, I have nothing against them and never will, they suggested what they thought was best and that is perfectly okay, but I didn't want to leave the game. I just didn't want to see a game I loved become something I hated.
I personally think it is better to discuss things and try to find a solution instead of just letting go.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946476#Comment_3946476
It does seem to me, my friend, that there indeed wasn't an attempt to try and understand why the "go next" epidemic existed in the first place. I hope this discussion can help us understand it.
You can have those discussions about what to improve but again, if you are actively playing a game you are not enjoying anymore and you are literally just ruining the experience of everyone else in the game, then yes. You need to stop playing.
Have those discussion while not playing.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946452#Comment_3946452
No problem, my friend, thank you for your comment!
I think you've raised an interesting perspective. In fact, the only reason why this post doesn't talk about the killer side of things is because the killer role cannot avoid the DC penalty. They have no way of going next without going through the system designed to deal with such scenarios.
Regarding balance, I think DBD followed a path where it started as very survivor sided during the early days, then somewhat more balanced, then the tide shifted towards killers and that is where I think we currently are. That isn't to say that the killer role is the easiest it has ever been, of course not, but generally speaking there isn't much being stacked against killers right now. There hasn't been for quite some time.
But, as you've said, there seems to be a certain double-standard regarding survivor's complaints, as if they aren't as valid as the killer's complaints used to be.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946473#Comment_3946473
There seems to be a misunderstanding, this post of mine isn't "defending" anything.
The point here isn't to tell people that every single DC or hook suicide was justified. The idea is to understand why they happened, why the modern DBD had a severe problem of players choosing to "go next" every other match.
Oh I'm not saying you're defending it I'm talking about overall and specifically about those that defend it, because that's what I see this forum filled with. This forum is filled with people who would be laughed at in any other community, because in no other community can you get away with defending people who leave and give up.
You know what the other communities will say? The same thing I say… stop playing and move on instead of ruining the experience of those who actually still enjoy it and want to play.
@DeBecker said:
Ultimately bhvr never even tried to question why people are giving up on hook so much recently. Instead they just decided to "fix" the illusional fact of "go next" to make it look better to the outside. Just ignoring the facts that survivor role has been butchered over the past years into a dull plaything for the killer role.
Survivor has not been butchered into a dull plaything for the killer role.
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@GeneralV said:
Greetings, friends of the Fog! I hope this discussion finds you doing well.
By now most of us have already seen that the Go Next Prevention mechanic was killswitched after the disaster that it caused when players got punished even if they did nothing wrong.
But I think that raises the question as to why such mechanic was added in the first place. And the answer may be obvious at first: the "Go Next" epidemic and the sheer amount of games where players decide to suicide on hook.
The answer is correct, sure, but I would like to propose a deeper discussion:
What was the origin of the "Go Next" epidemic? Why did such thing ever existed in the first place, and how did it reach a level so severe that changes were made to fundamental aspects of the game?
And if I were to share my own answer, I would say it was caused by a gradual deterioration of the survivor role. Because let's think for a second about the year I started playing DBD: 2018. Back then the game simply didn't have DC penalties, one could DC as much as they wanted to, with the only punishment being rank-related (the loss of a pip, if memory serves me right). And yet, people didn't disconnect like crazy every single game.
It happened sometimes, of course, especially with OG Legion, but I wouldn't call it an epidemic of its own.
However, back then there was more to the survivor role than there currently is. They still had proper resources, they didn't have to worry about waves and waves of gen-related killer perks, stealth was still a viable playstyle, killers weren't as oppressive, and the list goes on.
But we all know that changed in more recent times. Survivors lost most of what they had available to them, and nothing was really given. They die more often, their objectives are harder to do (due to perks), and generally speaking they have a worse experience. It is a lack of everything, and it seems to me that was the primary reason for the massive increase of hook suicides.
Let me know what you think, please share your thoughts, any feedback is welcome!
Why do you think the "Go Next" epidemic existed?
I full on think that people who try to defend the go next stuff or try to provide some valid reasons as to why it happen, is a bit ignorant sorry to say. Not because you can't do it or not that those reasons aren't valid for the overall experience of survivor. The problem is, those reasons aren't why people leave.
Someone isn't leaving early due to "deteriorating survivor role" because those things aren't even in effect when people leave.
People will see a killer they don't like… and leave. People will have a bad chase… and leave. People's TEAMMATES will have a bad chase… and leave. People will not like the map they're on… and leave.
none of those have to do with a "deteriorating survivor role", they have to do with players being entitled. And it isn't just a survivor thing, it happens with killer too. If the game isn't perfect. A map they want, a killer they like, and a good first chase? They'll leave.
But dbd is genuinely the ONLY multiplayer game I've ever seen where people will try to defend leavers and people who give up, it's hilarious. This mindset of defending leavers gets bullied in any other community because why are we defending people who ruin the experience for everyone else. If you don't like the game and survivor has been "too deteriorated" for you… STOP PLAYING. Stop playing the game, play something else, instead of ruining the experience of everyone who actually enjoys / wants to play the game.
It's like people who leave feel OBLIGATED to play the game, even though they are immensely unhappy with it. So then all that ends up happening is ruining it for everyone else, whilst they stay unhappy.
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He's my 2nd main killer after Sadako. He's fun to play, but I genuinely feel he has some problems:
I don't think I've ever swapped from the longer hunt duration and the undetectable while hunting addons, because there's no reason to. At most I'll run out of the undetectable addon and swap it out for the longer and faster pathing. Most of his addons are just… meh. Uninspired cooldown changes or the basic "mangled and hemorrhage" addons that every killer has.
Also if I send my carnifex to break something, it shouldn't stop a hunt that's ongoing. It makes no sense. I get punished for using my power, because 99% of the time if I'm chasing someone and need my carnifex for a pallet, there is an active hunt going on somewhere. So it's just guaranteed to screw me out of my power.
The carnifex should be able to apply gen kick perks if you have any. Right now, there is ZERO reason to ever use guards on a gen because it doesn't really do anything. You're not going to waste your carnifex on a gen when you can use it on a pallet, and you aren't going to waste your jailer or assassin when you need them for hunting. Plus the whole thing about cancelling active hunts as well.
The banner mechanic makes it so good survivors who understand how the killer functions can basically make the entire hunt system useless because at most it distracts them for a few seconds and they just grab the standard and it's done with.
Also the same old bugs of his power while you're pathing randomly getting stuck on absolutely nothing (usually near doorways) and playing some loud notification in my ear as if I can't tell I'm stuck. Having the notification that I can use my power but then when I use my power to summon carnifex and break a pallet, it doesn't do it so instead I end up swinging at air because this dude somehow still has this issue of not being able to use your power if something is within like 6 feet of you. Which is a detriment btw because that means you have to telegraph your carnifex summon WAY more since you have to do it from farther, which lets survivors mindgame the pallet drop 10x easier. And a problem that doesn't happen very often at all for me but CAN happen… the guards literally just get stuck themselves, like they'll find someone, start chasing, and then just run into a wall permanently.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946357#Comment_3946357
Projectile also seems to be affected wildly by ping. I've watched one of my friends get hit by it and I was genuinely surprised it hit, even knowing how Huntress hatchets work.
The grab is kind of busted, honestly. It is absurdly good at tunneling and since he can just TP straight back to hook (and be invisible) there's little you can do to stop him from tunneling you and getting you banned lmao
I wouldn't be shocked if it's affected by ping or honestly just broken, I've had the hatchet straight up go through people countless times now. This clip for example:
https://imgur.com/gallery/bruh-Ht63Ai8
Honestly though with his grab? His grab is useless, I'm sorry. You have to have the perfect scenario for it to matter.
- Hit them with the axe from a close enough range so they can't just out run you because if you have any ounce of distance between you two, they can just get the axe out before you're in range
- Get in hugging range before they reach any sort of tile, or the opportunity is lost
- Hope they have endurance so that the grab is worthwhile, otherwise you're wasting more time trying to get the grab instead of just hitting them normally and picking them up.
The animation is so long and the time you have to waste just getting in range, that it straight up is longer than just hitting them and picking them up most of the time.
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@kaneyboy said:
why does this killer have it all? Stealth, range, teleportation and speed. Feels awful playing survivor atm.
He has a much easier projectile to dodge (imo the easiest projectile to dodge in the game), his grab mechanic is hilariously easy to avoid, and his TP has a map wide tell when it's happening.
The only problem I've had so far against him while playing as survivor (which I've done since killer queues are unplayable) is that there is a bug where he comes out invisible from the door.
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dawg please i can't see.
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I don't disagree that deathslinger has been severely powercrept, but anytime I see someone use a killer's real name, it genuinely feels parasocial. Idk what it is about it…
But nah he's definitely been left behind but atp, it's not even a hatred towards deathslinger… it applies to 90% of the older killers. It's just how it is. I would say the only one it doesn't apply to is nurse, because her power is so mechanically broken since it just ignores a massive gameplay part of dbd (that being loops), so nothing could ever really powercreep her out of the game.
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They do need to fix him just straight up being invisible when he comes out of doors, idk what that is all about but it's actually horrible lmao. I'm waiting for him to appear and turns out, he's already through the door and right next to me.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945131#Comment_3945131
doesnt help his addons are just terrible now… haste? lol got nerfed into oblivion. bonnies guitar strings? cuts your undetect inhalf IRI remnant? eh only blocks pallets now and the rest doesnt do anything of value…
Yea honestly only addon important to me atp is the undetectable increase out of doors because good lord that undetectable last about 3 days.
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What's wrong with it?
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@ChaosWam said:
Confuses me because Babysitter and Unbound were positively approved by the community, and batteries was never really a problem.
Well on another post i think a community manager or dev replied and said it was because batteries included specifically had become "oppressive" idk wth they mean by oppressive seeing as literally no one using the perk… so who knows. More baffling balance choices that make zero sense.
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@Royval said:
Houndmaster, Ghoul, Dracula, Vecna, Chucky, Alien all just feel the same and it doesn’t feel like a change in gameplay. 6/8 killers that have released have been snooze fest and I’ve been forced to take multiple breaks from the game.
Houndmaster don’t have to explain extremely boring I will never enjoy playing against this killer call the dog, grab me, free hit rinse repeat.
Ghoul free hit with no effort for injure, zone me with the leap hit make stupid noises rinse reapeat.
Dracula same thing zone me for free hit pull out the hand for a hit rinse repeat same with the dog.
Vecna kinda fun to play against outplaying the use of mage hand or whatever after that boring M1 killer.
Chucky extremely boring only one way to down doesn’t have much of a kit. Get snd on cooldown zone rinse repeat.
Alien come out the tunnel get a hit zone or get hit over a pallet or small loop.
Ngl literally all of the reasons you listed were nothing but "They hit me"
????
Brotha uninstall the game evidently you aren't having fun.
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My only gripe is the grab axe special interaction? Useless. Survivors can get rid of the axe, faster than you can ever catch up unless you're using some random haste effect or you do the axe from inside their cheeks. If you axe from even a slight distance? You just won't get to the fast enough.
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Idk I feel like there's a bit of a difference. The difference being it's 1 survivor that screams and it goes on a minute long cooldown.
Ultimate weapon had a 30 second cooldown and no limit to how many survivors scream because it lasted 30 seconds as an AoE.
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Played it to test it and yep she's broken right now. The red arrow indicator for what tv you're going to select just straight up gets stuck on multiple tv's and never goes away (even if the TV is turned off so really you get a basekit version of the mother's combo addon) and it's stuck even while manifested.
Also I can't be sure, but I think the arrows also screw with which tv you're selecting because I selected to TP to a tv that was in front of me and it instead tp'd me to a TV that was behind me and all the way down in the dungeon of that one knight realm map.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
My teammates in solo queue lately have been consistently helpful, do gens, know all the right plays, are generous with their healing and understand that the game is a team effort that requires all of us to help each other to get out of the exit gates alive, and my escape rates have gone way up as a result. It's spooky.
Never would've guessed that BHVR would steal-drop a DLC, but I can't complain; it really feels like I'm living in some weird alternate universe.
Honestly funny because as a killer I don't think I've had more instant give ups than I have recently. It's like every other game.
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@ThatRyanB said:
You've brought up some good points about Batteries Included in this thread. The simple answer here is that after buffing it alongside Steady Pulse, the team noticed that the increased burst of speed had become a little too oppressive, given how easy it was to trigger and how long it would stay active.
While we are bringing the Haste % back in line with it's pre-Steady Pulse value, we still want to explore ways of making this Haste valuable to you. By increasing the radius at which this effect will trigger around a completed gen, it should offer more flexibility in how you path your chases and make it easier to get that burst of speed. Of course, it's something we'll be watching closely over the coming days and weeks!
As for your question about why this wasn't tested on the PTB, it was unfortunately a case of timelines not always lining up. A few perk changes were made slightly later in the update cycle and weren't able to make it into the PTB build. As mentioned above, we're always monitoring for feedback we can bring back to the team, so we'll be keeping a close eye on these perks as folks go hands-on with them tomorrow!
Oppressive how if no one was actually using the perk?
Or was this perk somehow making its way into the top 10?
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Can't wait for a new killer player to say something about killer being bad in a certain area and getting spam downvoted