Raconteurminator
Raconteurminator
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- Raconteurminator
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632001#Comment_3632001
I created a thread a while ago about killer winstreaks. The central point of that is a video from Otzdarva in which he highlights some crazy killer winstreaks. In short, it is possible with many if not all killer to go on high winstreaks in the hundreds or even thousends. For survivors, it is not.
Whenever killer come up with a counter argument to that topic, it usually starts with "But comp survivors". First of all, it is not true. Even in comp, killer have a positive expected outcome. Also i dont know which tournament or league you are participating or you watching, but i can assure you that killer have restrictions aswell.
And second, it is overall a bad argument because 99,99% of this game is outside of comp and the majority of player will never ever face such a strong team. Therefore it is irrelevant.
And 99.99% of Killer players don't have the 10-15k hours (literally over a year of accumulated play time) of experience or anywhere close to the skills required to do that, so the majority of players will never face such a strong Killer. Therefore arguments concerning kill streaks are irrelevant.
If it's unreasonable to equate the skill of the average team to comp teams, you also shouldn't be using comp Killer players as an example of anything either. And as far as I'm aware, only Blight and Nurse are expected to 3-4k in comp.
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@Lurkzerker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631262#Comment_3631262
Infinite is broken but map reworks because the map is good for looping is not. As Killer mains often say to Survivor mains "you have perks for it". It's catering to Killers and a nerf to Survivors. Then you can look at perks and see both got nerfed but Survivor perks got the hammer by comparison. The devs do not favor Survivor over Killer.
Sometimes Killers get something, sometimes Survivors do; there's an ebb and flow to it. You're only interested in remembering the things that you can twist to push a them and us narrative.
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The blocking of vault points is to fix infinites, likewise with the removal of specific vaults. That's not catering, that's not a buff, that's not a nerf, that's simply fixing something that is broken.
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Mind Breaker is already a niche perk, one that has a chance to backfire spectacularly by allowing someone to easily 99 a Sprint Burst. It doesn't need to be weakened.
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Monitor and Abuse increases the radius in chase, but conversely lowers it out of chase. Doctor also has a couple of add-ons that increase the size of the terror radius. The size of his AoE is also tied to the size of his terror radius, so that's fun.
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The best solution to tunnelling has always been, and always will be, getting better at the game. If someone is consistently getting tunnelled out of a game, consistently the first one to die, then that person is consistently the weakest link. It's an elimination game, someone always has to be the first out, and there comes a point where you have to ask yourself, "Why is it always me?"
If someone is playing Killer and they're consistently losing 3-4 gens in the first chase, their solution would be to reevaluate their play-style and see where they're going wrong. It wouldn't be to band-aid that problem by adding basekit Corrupt Intervention. That would validate their missteps and errors and allow them to avoid working towards fixing the actual problem or even acknowledging there is a problem in the first place. They will continue to play how they've always played and use the feature as a crutch, then assuredly, no mistake they make in future will ever be their fault; there will never be a need for introspection, there will just be a weird, entitled crusade to add a basekit solution to all of their shortfalls.
Likewise, band-aiding a basekit solution to tunnelling is just giving Survivors validation for a potentially flawed play-style rather than actually fixing the real issue.
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If people shortening a longer word into a shorter word purely for the sake of expediency makes you feel uncomfortable, then I genuinely fear for you. 'Survivors' lends itself to being shortened without confusion, 'Killers' does not.
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This seems actually quite workable. Maybe not those exact numbers, but the idea itself is solid.
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You've clearly put a lot of thought into this. I hope someone at Behaviour at least gives it a glance.
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While I do genuinely get where you're coming from, I think a lot of your position is built upon the assumption that anything Behaviour does is intentional or well considered, rather than them chaotically laying the tracks for a train already in motion. I genuinely believe that Dead By Daylight was never intended to last anywhere near this long, a coherent design strategy has never really been a thing, and that inferring a deeper meaning to the game mechanics isn't as close to reliable as it would be for any other game.
The point system, for example, might be designed to push you towards a certain style of play, might hint towards a wider objective. It is also equally possible that someone may have sketched the basic premise for it on a napkin at lunchtime and then gave it no further thought in the proceeding years.
The Key Features line, "Survive Together.. Or Not," I am going to guess, has been in the description from day one. As far as I understand it, not even looping was an intended thing back then. It was about hiding more, interacting with each other outside of gens less. As the game has moved on, teamwork has become almost completely mandated and more selfish play-styles are generally awarded with a team wipe. The game has evolved far beyond its original premise, whether Behaviour cares to acknowledge that or not.
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If I wasn't choosing out of that list, pretty much Legion and anyone else.
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Jack the Ripper wasn't an urban legend. He was real.
Cryptids count as urban legends, right? Flatwoods Monster.
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January 30th.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
The AFC mechanic is basically exactly as effective as the base kit repair penalty for grouping up on gens is for gen rushing.
Both are now part of the core game mechanics, but actually make their respective problems worse by encouraging players to play even more efficiently (in this case proxy camping and spreading out on gens).
It's safe to say that since every single post about 'this mechanic appears to do nothing' is met with a snarky response of 'akshually it's anti-FACE camping' should be enough to tell you that this doesn't affect anyone's gameplay in the slightest, and might even be under tuned.
I'd actually prefer if they scrapped the whole AFC mechanic entirely and reverted Reassurance to it's PTB state, with one change: 'press e to cancel reassurance' for the hooked survivor.
It's not snarky, it's factual. You even referred to it as AFC yourself: Anti-Facecamp. There's no "akshually" about it, no-one is arguing semantics; Behaviour has made it clear what it's called and what it's intended to do. People are just pointing out that a system that was designed to stop A and was never designed to stop B will, in fact, be very bad at stopping B and shouldn't be judged on its failure to stop B.
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It only prevents facecamping because it was only designed to prevent facecamping. It was never supposed to stop proxy camping. What you've described is a system working as intended. The amount of mental gymnastics required to spin a (much-needed) Survivor- sided change into a Killer buff is as incredible as it is depressing.
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Punishing people for leaving a game that hasn't even started yet isn't the way to fix a broken system. I think the best way would either be A) just remove lobbies altogether or B) misaligned matchmaking. Misaligned matchmaking would put Survivors into a lobby, then after a set time (say 20-25 seconds), the game would search for a Killer. When one was found, the game would start and the Killer would skip the lobby completely.
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They certainly are really something. Bad, mostly.
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Is Singularity evil? I mean, is there actually sentience there or is it simply an AI-driven android that was corrupted by an unknown alien substance?
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
This is a topic that I have been seeing a lot in communities on twitch/Youtube lately.
That's your first mistake there. Play the game yourself and see how you feel and not what these weirdos tell you what and how to think. But it's too late for that because the ideas already been planted in your head.
Coming in biased already just ruins the whole critical thinking aspect of things.
That being said, anything deemed "OP" aka if people whine about the perk enough, it'll eventually get turned into dog water on either side, so rest assured.
Just play Nurse, it's OP and game breaking and they seem like as of right now they'll never fix it. People have got p100 on it without perks.
That's your first mistake there. Play the game yourself and see how you feel and not what these weirdos tell you what and how to think. But it's too late for that because the ideas already been planted in your head.
Coming in biased already just ruins the whole critical thinking aspect of things.
In all fairness, ignoring 99% of their post and assuming they've been brainwashed into holding the opinion they do just ruins the whole intellectual honesty aspect of said critical thinking.
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In response to said topic, I agree. In an asymmetrical game, the many, individually, can't posses an ability that is comparable to the one in power. The one is strong individually, while the many are weak individually but have the ability to be greater than the sum of their parts. One side has to be weaker for the core concept to work. While some balancing can be done on an individual level, the majority of balancing needs to be considered from a team perspective; not just, "Is this perk strong?" but also, "Is this perk too strong when multiple instances are present in a match?"
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You're right enough, For the People is perfectly fine by itself.
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Matchmaking is barely functional as it is. It would take longer and become even more inaccurate.
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I mean, you're not wrong.
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@AfraidMonsters said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619908#Comment_3619908
I'll give you credit. It took you all the way to the fourth example for you to get triggered and claim that me trying to help the team actually survive is "bullying".
Sheeple don't usually last that long.
Help? Ah, yes, because having a tantrum and threatening to throw the game if someone doesn't do what you want them to is helping. No, it's being childish, it's being entitled, and it's attempting to bully strangers into compliance in the most hilariously ham-fisted way possible. The examples given by others in this topic as to why proxy chat is a bad idea are all great. The examples you gave are equally great in proving it a bad idea. Your behaviour now is an even better example as to why it's a bad idea; your rude, combative demeanour isn't going to diminish if you're given a mic and a captive audience.
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i'll give you credit. It took all the way to the fourth example for you to say you'd use proxy chat to bully people into playing how you want them to.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619518#Comment_3619518
You mean just like the killer taking someone out at 0 hooks, with no repercussions, in a survivors face? Almost like there's no counterplay? Stop complaining about something that is already in use by the otherwise unless you want both taken out.
No, I don't mean that. I'm not talking about something else, I'm talking about FTP + Buckle Up. If all you have is comparing two different issues while repeating, "Stop complaining," like it contributes anything all, we don't need to continue this conversation.
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@itstofuuu99 said:
i just think currently the community is having a “petty-off”, if you will, and are trying to gut either sides perks based off of what they don’t find fair.
you know those games where both sides put up a good fight and then someone goes down near the exit gates and gets picked up because of ftp/buckle up and then the killer argues it’s a free escape? i personally think if a team was coordinated enough to pull this off whilst simultaneously getting to end game, i think it’s a fair deserved escape. i may not like it when i play killer and it happens to me, but i don’t think it calls for a gut to the perks. i accept that i played bad, my chases lasted too long or whatever and they deserved to escape. it’s not that deep.
the same way when i play survivor and manage to not get hooked the entire game and escape all my chases, only for the exit gates to be powered, and the killer has rancor… i could argue that is a free kill and cry for rancor to be nerfed, but i won’t. because i think its fun to have these unique strategies in the game. which encourage different play styles.
anyway my point is if people keep on complaining about strong perks to get them nerfed, the game will get very boring and stale very fast. it is already headed down that path. gut one side until you gut the other and it would just be an endless cycle.
like there are killers who can insta down and take people out of the game at 0 hooks, but picking someone up off of the floor and them having endurance for 10 seconds is where we draw the line? i think people need to stop being babies and let the game have some variety and enjoy it as it is.
like there are killers who can insta down and take people out of the game at 0 hooks, but picking someone up off of the floor and them having endurance for 10 seconds is where we draw the line? i think people need to stop being babies and let the game have some variety and enjoy it as it is.
It's not the picking someone up with endurance part that's the issue, it's the being able to do it in the Killer's face with no repercussions part that's the issue. Counter-play is minimal, sometimes just non-existent.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619097#Comment_3619097
Some don't. His kit has the potential of being busted.
Lots of things have the potential to do lots of things; that's not a good starting point for a nerf. If someone with 10-15k hours can do something amazing, you don't dish out nerfs because of it. You accept that that person is not representative of what 99.99% of players will encounter, let alone achieve, and move on because it's not actually a problem.
Blight's add-ons are the problem.
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I mean, if you bought it through Steam, you possibly could get a refund. In-game, nope.
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The most likely scenario is that you severely overestimated how far from each other you were, how much ground Legion can cover, and simply misremembered the spacing between hits. Rapid succession could mean a lot; it could mean 1 second between hits, it could mean 4 seconds between hits, it could mean anything in between.
Both pallet issues are caused by latency, which is probably down to trying to stream on a bad connection.
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@Chaosrider said:
Why should any side be a power role? It just doesnt make sense.
It's an asymmetrical multiplayer game. If one side isn't the power role, then the premise falls to pieces; a force too great to overcome individually can be defeated with teamwork and cunning. It's 4v1, the 1 needs to be a threat.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618281#Comment_3618281
Party games: "Games that are played at social gatherings."
This can apply to every mutliplayer game ever.
Party games, again, traditionally, are games played at parties. Party games, the videogame genre, are collections of mini-game with a centralised theme. By your own very brief definition of a party game, DBD still isn't a party game. And again, party game (the genre of videogame), is not a nebulous term without a clear definition. Even traditional party games are essentially a collection of mini-games wrapped in a central theme (an actual party). Why you're trying to redefine established terms, I don't know, but this is a very silly hill to die on.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617770#Comment_3617770
You know that one game can be associated with different genres, right? These aren't mutually exclusive.
Take any CoD game for example. They all are FPS games, but they are also associated with the genres: multiplayer, competitive, coop, shooter, action, solo player... you get the idea.
Party games are collections of mini-games wrapped in a central theme; Fall Guys is a game show, Mario Party is a board game, for example. You do know that an asymmetrical multiplayer game doesn't share genres with a kart racer or a fighting game, right? You do know certain genres can be mutually exclusive, right?
You do realise that an asymmetrical multiplayer game isn't a party game because it meets none of the requirements to be a party game, right? You do realise party game and asymmetrical multiplayer game aren't nebulous terms without a clearly defined meaning, right? Does Dead By Daylight contain a collection of mini-games wrapped in a central theme? No? Then it's not a party game.
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@CrypticGirl said:
"Why didn't the slugged Survivor crawl away?"
What good would that do when the Killer could just walk over, pick up the Survivor, and drop them back under the hook?
Because sooner rather than later, the Survivor would get to wriggle off their shoulders for free.
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Party game is one of those terms the DBD community loves to frequently get wrong. Traditionally, a party game is just that, a type of game played at a party, usually for the entertainment of children. In so far as videogames go, a party game is one focused around mini-games. Fall Guys is a party game, Mario Party is a party game, etc.
Dead By Daylight is an asymmetrical multiplayer game, a different, clearly defined, genre altogether.
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What is tunnelling? I mean, fundamentally. It's a player choosing who to chase and when; it's basic player agency. To "gut" this "toxic" play-style as some have suggested would ultimately come down to either punishing people for exercising a choice or simply removing that choice by making it for them. I don't like the sound of either.
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Did the other Survivor not attempt to crawl away at any point?
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Does Pain Res. even work with Dead Man's anymore?
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Calling something that isn't a massive issue a massive issue suddenly doesn't make it a massive issue.
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Toxic? No, of course not. Annoying? Absolutely. There's no reason to have that overlay obscuring the screen.
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So you want a 4.4m/s Killer that has no power until they win a chase? Then they have one chance to use that power before having to do it all again? That's terrible.
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Nostromo is, like, the third smallest map in the game.
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Maybe. I think snowmen can spawn in the same spots hooks can, but no idea if they're accidentally replacing a few here and there.
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autograph: survivors scream when you use the main event causing them to become unconscious
-albun on the edge of rebirth: the survivors hit have the effect of being destroyed and the knives explode in the environment causing 0.5 laceration
I know these are both translation errors, I know they're not important. I still find the imagery very funny. A Survivor screaming so hard they pass out or a knife straight up destroying them on hit.
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Problem is, everyone will just DC for whatever reason they want. Hooked first? DC. Dropped a pallet too late and got downed? DC. Somebody else DC'd? DC. When I play Survivor, I don't want bots on my team because it impacts the experience. When I play Killer, I don't want to be forced to face a team of bots, because that's not what I clicked Find Game for.
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A better solution would be to leave Pain Resonance alone because it's perfectly fine.
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EULAs basically aren't worth the paper they're not written on. They rely heavily on the fact that most ordinary people have neither the money nor the inclination to challenge them over it.
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@Toaster427 said:
If you can't find survivors without aura perks then that says more about your skill rather than anything wrong with the game.
It's less a case of, "Can't find" and more a case of, "When time is a limited resource and two people are hiding while two are not, said limited resource is better spent chasing the more available targets." Kick Survivors now, kick bushes later.
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I see her in what must be 40-50% of my games, and nearly always in the dumb reindeer onesie.
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@GRIG0 said:
Pinhead because I'm not touching that box 😂
In the first couple of films, maybe. After that, none of the Cenobites really cared if you touched the box.