Poweas
Poweas
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@miaasma said:
spirit has no counterplay
i played spirit for a daily yesterday with subpar perks and was amazed at how easy it was
if you have a good pair of headphones you're a good spirit player
@miaasma you probably didn't face good survivors then. I use a build (without Ruin obviously) and I had to learn routing, mindgames, when to predict a survivor and when to go right behind them, whether they'll drop a pallet or not while I'm phasing.
I highly doubt you versed good survivors.
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@Andreyu44 it was you who said it on different threads though right? Or is that someone else? I think it was who claimed to never lose to one.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523534#Comment_523534
Not every killer has 90% MVM speed by default and gets stunned
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523744#Comment_523744
Unless you're rank 20 Nurse can get mindgamed and Billy has an higher Mobility and a oneshot.
Billy and Nurse are in the same tier
@Andreyu44 ok now I definitely know you don't know what you say lol. You think Nurse is equal to Billy lol.
You also think Spirit is bad XD!
Billy is bottom tier trash compared to Nurse, and Spirit is the only comparable killer. Good survivors can easily counter Billy, as they can with Hag.
My god, you don't understand the other killers at all do you? But stealth does kill Nurse, but she got enough tracking perks going for her lol.
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Punish them for playing with friends? Why?
If you meant to beat them, then Spirit or Nurse will get the job done. Hag and Billy aren't as reliable, because if the survivors are any good, Hag and Billy are pretty terrible.
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Snare definitely. Dream pallets can still technically be looped, and unlike Doctors, the survivors don't see it's fake until they drop it, which makes them confident.
And that confidence means they'll loop you as normal, unlike against Doctor where they try to find another pallet. Even if they drop it eventually, at a jungle gym that's about 40 seconds wasted from a bad mental strategy. Doctor at least scares them into abandoning the jungle gym.
So yeah, a mental game makes dream pallets weak lol. Sounds funny right?
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Keep us updated!
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Lol, I'm favouriting this post.
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@MistressChara said:
I'm 6'3 (191cm) despite being a woman.
@TreemanXD @Ihatelife @PhantomMask20763 Happy pride month you three <3
@MistressChara my sister is also unusually tall, well for her age anyway, she's only 13 and already hit 6 ft. I was way shorter and so was my brother. You're not alone :P
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523413#Comment_523413
@Poweas yeah I can see where u and the others are coming from with Lithe. It's probably the best perk to get away from dead zones cuz windows are common.
I personally try to avoid running into dead zones in the first place. My goal as survivor is to get chased first (automatically I know where pallets exists cuz I'm the first one who will use them) and extend them as much as possible while beeing quite greedy with pallets for optimal chase potential of my other mates once I'm downed. And that's when DH comes handy and outclasses all other perks. It gives you a tiny but very significant difference to extend a chase during looping when you misjudged the killer speed (bloodlust usually kicking in).
@HavelmomDaS1 but when there's one of those split maps, and you're 3 genned against any killer, with a massive dead zone, Lithe completely outclasses Dead hard. Like not even a challenge :P.
Dead hard is good for extending a chase, but at the same time, isn't Sprint burst good? It can hard counter Wraiths windstorm, Pigs dash, Spirit phasing at you, Billys saw, Nurses blink, and pretty much every power except Hag and Trapper.
Lithe can also promote not wasting pallets because of the speed boost, at a jungle gym, if you loo the pallet, and then use the window to get across the map without dropping the pallet, it wastes a LOT of time and it breaks bloodlust. It can completely waste time and make Dead hard irrelevant in comparison.
Idk, like I said, Dead hard is really strong and viable in its own world but it comes down to a matter of preference. If you wanted the strongest exhaustion perks, you'd run Balanced landing or Lithe, but Dead hard is still good. Even Sprint burst is good and still very strong.
It's all based on which suits your style, for me Lithe is a godsend for my style.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Imagine putting sprint burst that high in 2019.
The ultimate looper exhaustion tier list is to put balanced and dead hard on 1. Place
@HavelmomDaS1 Balanced Landing, I agree. Lithe is definitely better than Dead hard though. Dead hard saves you from messing up, but with Lithe you're usually not in a position where you mess up. Lithe can get you right out of deadzones which is so underrated about it. It can also help you rush to a hook, gen or something if you wont make it normally.
It can save you from Billys because of this. Huntress can counter it, but not exactly, you can still relatively easily activate it, it just takes thinking. That's not to say Dead hard is bad, it's really good, just not Lithe tier.
For me it's:
Balanced Landing>>>>>>Lithe>>>>>>Dead Hard>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sprint Burst (these four are solid, now it's for me bad ones)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Head on.
I don't really count Adrenaline as one btw.
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@Shad03 that sums her up, and im sure you're good with her.
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@PolarBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523284#Comment_523284
@Poweas Even with those perks it is still a challenge. Tricking her isn't really easy (not saying it should be as easy as looping) either.
@PolarBear it's not a challenge with spine chill, you can tell when she's on you. With iron will, if you vault into her and run the opposite direction, she'll never know what hit her. And with spine chill you can guarantee when you should fake vault back.
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@PolarBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523265#Comment_523265
@Poweas I know where you're coming from but having little to no power as a survivor also doesn't go well. Just look what happened with Legion. Furthermore if the survivor doesn't have any power in chases then whats even the point in playing?
@PolarBear but against Spirit, you have some power. You can try to trick her. Obviously, it all comes down to predicting her. you could also run Iron will and Spine chill to completely no skill destroy her.
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@PolarBear said:
Only reason why I don't like going against the spirit is that she does all the mindgames for you. When you come to a loop it's pretty much all in the hands of the spirit in terms of whats gonna happen.
@PolarBear tbh though, all killers should have that level of control. It IS a 4v1 after all.
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Survivors, definitely Kate. She's just so attractive.
Killers, definitely Spirit. Really fun to play.
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I can't even say Deja Vu since that can split the map excellently. Monstrous shrine even fits into basement builds.
Left behind is trash.
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Wraith and Freddy. Imagine an invisible Wraith who could delay the game. That's scary.
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Hag and Spirit. The traps outta nowhere scares me and the Spirits sounds, animations and phase sounds scare the crap out of me.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523208#Comment_523208
Nope. It just means that we're not thinking about changing her right now. I'll never say never when it comes to balance because this is a live game and anything can happen, but there are no plans to touch her at all right now.
(Fixes aside, of course.)
@Peanits thanks, you're actually awesome. I can't wait till we get the normal sound back. I've missed hearing people. I am assuming the PTB has normal sounds back. So no ghost breathing or quiet af sounds.
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@Blueberry said:
I agree with your principle and the problems you found.
That said, I never think Bloodlust is the answer. Bloodlust is a badly designed band aid fix for the games terrible map design. If we properly fixed the maps we wouldn't need Bloodlust.
Maps are the core issue of the problem.
As @Blueberry said, bloodlust is NOT the answer. Map designs are the answer. If they were any good, we'd not need this rework. Some pallets, windows and dropdowns need different places because they create some too strong loops. Some loops in general are too long anyway.
Map design is the solution, we should only really have ONE god loop, and that's the shack, since unlike the windows and dropdowns, if you drop the pallet, it's not as strong. It's also the only mindgameable god loop so that's that.
Also @Blueberry mentioned that survivors need other options to survive, I agree with that too. We're too reliant on windows, pallets and dropdowns to beat the killer. We need more stealth opportunities. This would also balance out Nurse tbh.
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/522108#Comment_522108
I agree with both you and @Redd , as i believe that she is strong without addons (i play her a lot too). However, i also believe her addons are very strong, and with them she is FAR too powerful (if the player knows what they're doing)
yeah I acknowledge that she's far too OP with some addons. Mainly purple and pink. They need a fat nerf.
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@NoShinyPony this is why solo survivor should be as good as SWF and killers should be buffed to match them. The current system sucks and everyone suffers from it.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523027#Comment_523027
We are not looking into changing the Spirit at the moment. She's powerful, but she has a good amount of counterplay too, so we would rather focus on other Killers for the time being.
@Peanits the time being suggests that she may be nerfed later on? I can totally see her getting butchered.
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@Watery said:
I’m just bad lol. I play solo, and frankly, I suck. Can’t really fix it lol, even after three hundred hours. I tend to suck at most games I play, but at least I owe up to it. I’m rank ten; if a Kate or Jane was bad during the game, it may have been me. :( sorry.
I have the gamesense and all, but for some reason when I get into chase it just drops off. It all just kinda goes out the window. Hag still scares the ######### out of me, lol.
The only reason I really only go for rank 13-8 range is que times, really.
But seriously, the boosted teammates problem is an issue. Yet I don’t know how the devs would go about it other than making changes to emblems.
@Watery I don’t think it was you. You don’t seem like the type to DC.
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@Redd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/522108#Comment_522108
We are going to have to agree to disagree here. She's better than Billy at loops but I consider her (vanilla of course) a whole lot worse at patrolling, which I personally consider to be the more important of the two things if you don't have any add-ons to make you broken.
There's no arguing that there isn't even a 4th place worth mentioning though, so there is that.
@Redd we'll agree to disagree then. Btw there is a 4th place worth mentioning, that was Billy :P I consider Hag to be 3rd because in my opinion, she is stronger than him for everything. Mainly because she has more map pressure and snowball potential. She's not as fast, but her traps definitely give her as much mobility as him. Then her chasing is better, she's slightly better at controlling the map and pressuring gens, and she has the best snowball, joint with Myers.
For me it's Nurse>>>>>Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hag>Billy.
Btw, Spirit is worse at patrolling I agree with that, but she snowballs better than Billy and has the best chasing in game, so it's kind of irrelevant tbh. Idk, I want to discuss tierlists with you, you seem knowledgeable and I like to debate with people who think differently, talk on my wall if u wanna keep debating.
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If they add dream snares, he's fine at base.
@Redd said:
Most of the killers are too reliant on add ons.
The Spirit is the best example of why I find this frustrating. She is only in the top 3 when using add-ons. Which everyone just assumes she'll have? This is why I find balance discussion and tier lists for this game frustrating. Because the spirit is a significantly worse killer without add-ons that basically needs them to be viable. But everyone acts as if she's god-tier better than Hillbilly who I must point out is one of the few killers not completely reliant on their add-ons to do well.
So making new Freddy too reliant on his add-ons to be able to do anything would just be par for the course for them sadly.
@Redd take it from a Spirit main who plays her at high ranks without addons, she's not addon reliant. If you think that, you're terrible with her. That's me putting it simply. And she is far better than Billy, you're again, probably not good with her.
I used to think she was addon reliant, she's just really hard without addons, but still definitely better than Billy and close to Nurse. You're wrong about her. A better example is Myers.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521394#Comment_521394
Any killer is made to appear weaker against team of highly skilled survivors. Once you get to that situation Nurse is the only killer that maintains a sense of strength. I tend to think it is best to not take survivor skill into account when talking about bringing killers up in power. As the power role, killers in theory should have the ability to apply more pressure that the team or herd role. When you look at the game and see where killers are right now a lot of balancing around what survivors can theoretically handle is happening.
We've gotten a lot of functional powers that aren't actually particularly good at doing their job and require survivors to do something to see its full potential. That has always seemed strange to me as a lot of the game is controlled through the ability to put pressure on the game. Most killers can't adequately do that and the ones that can are eventually going to be scaled back. In a lot of instances the thought process appears to be "balance from the bottom up."
Start the killer off in a place where they may be extremely weak and then slowly try to tune the up. Every other game I've dealt with that goes in depth to the community about their mindset on balancing goes from the top down. You make a character that is potentially over tuned for play. Then you scale back the things that character doesn't need to remain viably strong. They do that regardless of whatever the opposition may be able to deal with and then dial the character back until they reach a point where players feel sufficiently strong and opposition have a consistently manageable play experience against them.
In another perspective, say you make a tabletop rpg character. If you're character starts off fairly strong eventually the game scales the game just enough so that your character is challenged just enough to show that you're not going to be able to completely outclass the game. If you roll up a underpowered character it can take forever to grow into the power scale of the game. You just have a harder time gaining power when you start without a good power base to work off of.
@ReikoMori Ok I understand, was wrong of me to bring that up then, it works against Hag too I guess and she's better than Billy.
One thing I'd like to point out, Spirit can also stomp good survivors. She's at a Nurse level right now :P
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Wait they made him a Legion part 2? Dear god, this'll suck.
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Why the flip has my thread turned into one massive argument? It was to discuss solo que and now look at it. Stay on topic please.
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@weirdkid5 and @Blueberry I agree too. All they had to do to make Hag top tier was number changes and addon changes and she's literally the 3rd best killer after Spirit. I consider her slightly better than Billy.
If something like that happened for Legion, or Pig, the game would be a lot better.
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@Toxicity23 that's what I had too. Except I didn't suicide on hook.
So then, I had a Hag game. The Hag was decent, not going to lie, I saw through her tricks, but she was decent. And two DC and it was me and another donny, I ran her for 3 or so minutes.
If they didn't DC, I could have carried that team to victory but they had to ruin the fun. It's disgusting. People DC, teammates are memes, it's horrible. solo que sucks!
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521345#Comment_521345
The base flick is very good. You can pretty much 90 degree turn if you time it so that you turn the MOMENT you charge. This nullifies 180s if you are distanced properly and make the right guess.
Also, I use Q and E to turn during my chainsaw charges, not the mouse. That way I get the maximum possible rotation every time.
@weirdkid5 does Q and E help with flicking? I only use mouse for flicks and Q and E for turning around the map.
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@Tower_XVI I agree, Billy is good. And Zubat is good. But an equally good survivor will not die to him. Billy needs to face worse survivors, even if it's just slightly worse, he'll get them. But equal or higher survivors stomp him.
He's still good because of his speed though, and viable. And his instadown can punish dead zones, so he's still top tie`r.
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521331#Comment_521331
I'm speaking without addons. A good Billy doesn't necessarily need his addons. It makes his quality of life much more tolerable though.
@weirdkid5 idk, I can't flick without addons. It's shameful but true. But then again, I'm a very average Billy. You probably know better. But I know for a fact, if a survivor knows how to 180 his flick, he's pretty much lost all his looping counterplay potential. No matter how good the Billy are.
But, addons make it very easy to flick and antiloop.
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521316#Comment_521316
Turning early and giving away which way you plan to go is obvious as hell.
If you are actually trying to saw from distance, it's best to do it around 6-10 meters. This allows you to use your early turn bonus to catch a survivor's juke, but you pretty much need to 50/50 guess which direction they will juke towards. A good read can put you in a very optimal position.
@weirdkid5 I'm talking about without addons obviously. With addons he works well.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521235#Comment_521235
Nurse, yes. Her base kit is probably the most rewarding to use, since it scales with player skill without any artificial skill ceiling.
Hillbilly, I wouldn't be so sure. I think it'd depend heavily on the map, since without add-ons you need to be very close to get a chainsaw hit during a chase.
@Orion he's survivor dependant too, good survivors will see through his tricks and spin his curves. So he's only got speed on his side at base. With addons like instasaw or extra speed, it's a different story.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/520845#Comment_520845
I'm sick of players wanting killers to be "viable without add-ons". You're playing against the best survivors, with all tier 3 perks + items and you wanting it to be breeze without add-ons is ridiculous.
@SenzuDuck nobody said they want an easy breeze, they want all killers to have a CHANCE without addons. Right now, only Hag, Spirit, Nurse and Billy (In no particular order) only can win without addons. Billy is a 50/50 thing. Since his power relies on survivors being bad and he can only move fast tbh.
But my point is, they're not an easy breeze without addons, but they have a chance to win. Some people including me, don't like using addons at all. It feels wrong to us, because we hoard them.
Viable killers without addons is a good thing and should be added. You of all people should understand this.
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Spine chill, it hard counters Spirit.
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That’s a good idea, I can’t think of one better tbh, that could be used got some awesome mindgames in Haddonfield.
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Both are equally toxic. Although, I dealt with more as survivor.
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@CaptainCastle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/520031#Comment_520031
Only if i wanted a response. I didn't, i just enjoyed your humble brag.
@CaptainCastle oh ok. I came across as a bit braggish.
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Also @CaptainCastle you need to @ me
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@CaptainCastle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519897#Comment_519897
This is my favorite post in a long time
@CaptainCastle how so?
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Both are strong, but balanced.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519800#Comment_519800
Yeah I agree. She has strong counter play and a high skill cap.
Whereas Billy has a much lower skill cap with not as much counter play besides just dropping the pallets early. Caught out too far from a pallet? You're boned. Spirit isn't balanced around a poorly balanced mechanic like pallets.
@Blueberry Billy is obnoxious, and honestly not that strong. If you're against good survivors, they'll catch onto your tricks, counter your curves, call your bluff and bully you. Killers should be balanced around Hag/Spirit level. Billy is a noobstomper. He's only really fast.
He can instadown, but only in dead zones. He's not balanced like Spirit, your points prove that.
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Hag would be a well made one.
Huntress could be an emotional one and inspirational (well she's got the mind of a 6 year old, but she still survived against all odds).
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@TreemanXD don't worry, I now find her boring too lol. She's a Nurse but not map dependant. When mastered, she never loses, not even against 4 toolboxes, it gets boring after a while.
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@TreemanXD as your friend, I'd like to say avoid Billy. Against good survivors, he's basically Leatherface but fast so he maintains top tier. Curve? No problem, the survivors can flick the other way and loop you well. Bait it? They'll expect it next time boi. Try to curve a window? They'll bait it easily. He's easy to beat.
He's a top tier killer, but definitely trash in comparison to the other 3 (Nurse, Spirit and Hag).
Main something like Huntress. Billy can combat genrush though, he's fast enough, but that's all he has tbh. Huntress is fun, almost as good and solid anyway. Or Hag, but you said you dislike her.
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As killer I tend to farm when a guy DC's and I feel bad. So, I pretend to do gens with them XD. We all have a blast, it's so fun.