PixelBush
PixelBush
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672543#Comment_2672543
Pixel - I am glad this thread was made as I would like to talk about this. I watched the YT Twins video last night.
My sense is that the best suggestion from the vod was to allow, maybe even force, the Twins player to switch from Victor to Charlotte after downing a player to make the hooking phase a little less time consuming. Nice QOL change. Switch back from Charlotte to continue attacking with Victor.
The other suggestion about reducing the Twins cooldown, I can say I am not in favor of. Those cooldowns are there to prevent the ease of mass slugging, which was in my opinion not talked about enough in the vod. One of the last clips in the vod perfectly showed why Victor earned that five second cooldown as it showed a three man slug in a short duration.
This is the drawback of one of the strongest powers in the game as several other forum posters have articulated earlier in this thread. If Twins is not the fifth best killer in the game, they are the sixth or seventh. In their current state.
I know which clip you're talking about, and they could have prevented in any number of ways. Three injured people clustered together who didn't even try to kick Victor after he downed someone: why SHOULDN'T they lose the game as a result? That's like 3 people running into a Bubba's chainsaw or an Oni in power and then complaining about slugging.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
As much as I hate twins, if you actually can't pick them up in time that's just stupid.
Fortunately for you, I don't think exponential will actually be used that much due to how situational it is, and especially considering twins aren't commonly played.
I do think victor should be able to interact with boons and/or you should only have to wait as long as you do after a down if you want to slug; you should be able to switch back to charlotte much faster if you intend to pick up and hook.
After you down someone with Victor, you have an 8 second combined fatigue before you can start moving to pick them up (5s on Vic's end, 3 on Charlotte's). In that time they've recovered over halfway, and unless they're within 30m of Charlotte they will get up before you can pick up.
If a Survivor gets M1d by Charlotte, they can cover 40+m before Victor can even get in Pounce range.
You can pick them up if they path into Charlotte but that's it.
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@zarr said:
Give it a week or two and you will almost never see Exponential in your games anymore. I barely see it as it is.
You're right, but just because the perk is uncommon doesn't justify how much you can't play the game when you do see it.
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@Leatherface1990 said:
Like I've said in other posts they nerfed the old killers so you will spend more money on new ones.
Twins aren't an old Killer though: they're a year old today.
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@TacitusKilgore said:
They haven't forgotten them. Its more like a neglectful parent, they acknowledge their existence but simply cannot be arsed to care enough about them.
That's true, they'll acknowledge their existence when it's time to fix a bug that benefits them, like Victor hitting through Dead Hard's I frames, but not when there's a bug or intended mechanic that ruins their day.
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@Sakurra said:
There's no twins players anymore anyway...
Jeez, I wonder why?
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@Tr1nity said:
fortunatly, no one plays twins.
I do.
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The problem with Exponential (the only problem with it, honestly) is how it makes Twins literally completely unplayable.
By the time your 8 seconds of combined fatigues are over, the Survivor is already over halfway recovered, meaning if you can't get to the slug in 7 seconds the Survivor can get up before you can pick them up (i.e. the slug needs to be within 30m of Charlotte in a straight line).
Granted, that's more of a Twins fatigue issue than an Exponential issue, but it hurts that they didn't think of Twins before implementing the perk and neither toned down the recovery speed nor buffed Twins' fatigues to allow them to deal with the perk.
Against every other Killer, it's a more situational Unbreakable.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2626756#Comment_2626756
Correct me if I'm wrong though but the typical way The Twins are used is:
-Send Victor to jump on someone's back.
-Chase with Charlotte while they pull Victor off.
So if you down them with Charlotte, you don't have to catch up to their body because you're already standing over them.
Now even if you do need to pull out Victor again for the 2nd hit on an injured survivor, they aren't going to get a speed boost from being hit so they're not going to be that far away.
If you play that way with Twins, you're going to lose every game you play against even a slightly coordinated team, because if Victor jumps on someone's back they just run away from Charlotte across the map with the speed boost (while Charlotte is standing still) and take him hostage, meaning you have no power for over half a minute and your only injured Survivor has just zoomed away from you while the other 3 are sitting on gens. If you play them that way you're just playing a worse Legion, because you're taking chases as an M1 Killer after only injuring one person, compared to Legion who can injure all four.
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@RakimSockem said:
Where are you getting 3.5 seconds from? Does the new perk allow them to fully recover from the Dying State in 3.5 seconds? Where's the math on that?
They can recover from the dying state in 15 seconds.
Because of your 8 second fatigue, you only actually have 7 seconds to get to them before they get up (since they can start recovering as soon as you down them).
Charlotte can cover 32m in 7 seconds. If you're more than 32m away from Charlotte, that mean she can't pick you up before you pick yourself up.
A Survivor gets 18m of distance for free when Charlotte hits them with an M1 and unbinds Victor, travelling 18m during the 3.5 seconds of animations (2.5 for wiping the weapon, 1 second for unbinding).
This means when Victor is controlled, the Survivor has to cover 14m of distance to get to that 32m safe zone (Because they're 18m away from Charlotte and Victor already).
A Survivor can travel 14m in 3.5 seconds, meaning that the Twins player has 3.5 seconds of Victor control to catch back up to the Survivor and down them before they get to that safe zone. If you wait any longer, they get 32m away from Charlotte and are therefore safe.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2626720#Comment_2626720
"The new perk means you cannot down a survivor long enough to hook them"
What are you on about?
- They'd have to literally be across the map for you to not be able to reach them in time.
- They also have to be in range of a boon totem with the effect. If they aren't when they go down, the perk is useless.
- A majority of the time when a survivor goes down, the killer is within 8 seconds or less of that survivor.
The situation you're describing is so circumstantial that it practically would never happen
Are my maths wrong? They get hit by Charlotte, run towards their boon and unless you can catch up and down them in 3.5 seconds they're safe because by the time you can even move to start picking them up they're already halfway recovered.
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@RakimSockem said:
Slugging is boring. Just hook people and find more fun and better ways to play. Slugging is not a requirement because a killer isn't as strong as you want them to be
"Just hook people"
I've just described that a new perk means you cannot down a Survivor long enough to hook them. You can do literally everything in your power to pick them up and hook them and it won't do anything because they can get up before you get to them. They can run in a straight line away from you and waste enough time that they can deny you a hook by picking themselves up faster than you can pick them up. That's my entire point.
"Just hook them" how, exactly? You deadass do not have time to pick them up before they pick themselves up with this new perk. That's not a choice.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
honestly, I think Twins need some sort of passive "you don't get to get back up" mechanic, or stunning and swapping shouldn't take any time.
with boons, the main issue is the fun playstyle of "hit and run" doesn't work if the hit doesn't matter.
DBD's maps and the general pace of the game are not balanced around Killers being able to take every chase to wherever the Survivor wants to go. If god setups didn't exist and maps weren't so big you had to play for a 3 gen a lot of the time, "hit and run" playstyles wouldn't be necessary because you'd be able to commit to chases. That's not the world we live in right now.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2626609#Comment_2626609
No doubt, these perks are making the game worse in their current state, but it's not as though the Twins' gargantuan cooldowns for downing anyone with Victor would be okay if the boons had never been added, y'know?
These just highlight that problem even further.
You're right, of course. Boons providing superpowered versions of existing gameplay mechanics that happen to ruin Twins' day has really showed where the Killers' issues lie.
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@jesterkind said:
Honestly, these changes are necessary in the live version of the game and would be necessary if Circle of Healing were somehow completely removed from the game- all the boon perks only cause problems by exacerbating already existing issues, and this is no exception.
I'll say this now: the week between the Key/Hatch change and Circle of Healing coming in off killswitch was the most fun I've ever had playing DBD, and now a couple of really really dumb perks have utterly crushed my enthusiasm for playing the game. It's as low as it's ever been.
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@jesterkind said:
Honestly, these changes are necessary in the live version of the game and would be necessary if Circle of Healing were somehow completely removed from the game- all the boon perks only cause problems by exacerbating already existing issues, and this is no exception.
I'll say this now, the week between the Hatch nerf that neutered Keys and Circle of Healing being taken off killswitch was the most fun I've ever had playing DBD, and thanks to a couple of dumb new perks my enthusiasm to play the game has never been lower.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
I was bored and I never saw anyone do this tier list so I decided to make one.
Please notice that this tier list refers to the skill CAP, not FLOOR. The skill floor refers to how hard a killer is to pick up, while the skill cap refers to how good you can get with a killer. Huntress, for example, is a killer with a low skill floor (you throw hatchets at people, it's that simple) but with an enormours skill cap.
The tiers are divided into:
S - Nearly infinite skill cap;
A - High skill cap;
B - Intermediate skill cap;
C - Low skill cap;
D - Very low skill cap.
It's also ordered from right to left. So for example Blight has a higher skill cap than Huntress.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PPS726974LNT/my-image-288-29.png
So, do you guys agree?
My recommended changes:
-Put Twins MUCH higher, near the top of A above Deathslinger but lower than Billy. You'd be genuinely amazed what dedicated Twins players can pull off (e.g. last week I figured out how to consistently ricochet Pounces off map terrain to land hits round corners).
-I'd lower Demo below Nemesis simply because the only thing seperating the two of them is Nemesis's lingering hitbox after his M2, which is a skill a master Nemesis has to learn. Demogorgon is mechanically identical to Nemesis in every other way, so move Demo down or Nemmy up so that Nemmy is higher than Demmy.
-Put Pinhead in the bottom of S tier. We don't fully understand yet exactly what the best Pinheads are capable of, but there's so much in his kit to manage and so much you can do with the gateways (plus how you use the Lament Configuration to your advantage) that I think his potential skill ceiling is almost uncapped.
-Move Spirit between Plague and Ghostface: Spirit's main skill requirement comes from how punishing her cooldown is if she is if she messes up, but once you've learned to not mess up there's not really much more you can do with Spirit.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488028#Comment_2488028
Well it is currently way to short. I had WGLF that lets you heal a downed survivor faster and even that wasn't enough before vic was back on us. This just repeated until charlotte was close enough to hit me and pick up the survivor. He goes on the hook, i get lag hit by vic seconds later and then the snowball camp/ slug fest starts.
Rinse and repeat for every twins game.
We're Gonna Live Forever means you heal a Survivor from downed to injured in 8 seconds (assuming no medkits, Sloppy or other healing modifiers).
Victor's respawn timer is 6 seconds, and his unbinding time is 1 second. That's 7 seconds before Victor is even moving again.
How is Victor one second away from you? And more importantly, why are you healing someone (At most) a few seconds away from the Killer and expecting to get away with it?
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488089#Comment_2488089
This is one of those situations where maintaining the conceptual integrity of the character becomes very difficult. By design, the Twins are a killer that walks the line between being too strong or too weak (cause that's been a serious issue with a lot of BVHR's recent killer designs). A rework might be needed, sad to say.
Why would my changes not be sufficient though? I don't see why a rework is in order when the source of all their problems boils down to "playing them normally is too difficult because they have to waste so much time in pointless fatigues that against competent Survivors you're pigeon holed into slugging".
If Victor could have his post-hit fatigue cancelled if the Twins player wanted to go for a pickup, it would make the process of turning a down into a hook much smoother because you'd arrive at the downed Survivor a whole five seconds earlier, without stopping the Twins from chaining downs together if the Survivors repeatedly play poorly (because if the Survivors repeatedly play poorly and put themselves in positions where you can down them back to back, your power should let you capitalise on that).
Putting a wet blanket on them and saying "you can never get more than one down with your power ever ever ever now deal with it lol" feels like the wrong way to solve the problem, because now the process of countering the Twins becomes automatic.
When does Huntress run out of hatchets when she downs someone so she can't slug? When will Oni or Plague have their power run out when they down someone? When will Nurse have her blinks turn off until she picks up?
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488066#Comment_2488066
I'll lay it out a bit differently, so maybe this will make more sense. I'm thinking maybe there was a bit of confusion somewhere.
- Charlotte injures survivor.
- Victor activated.
- Victor downs injured survivor and remains attached to their body for 8 seconds; shorten this duration to 5 seconds if a survivor actively removes him.
- Switch back to Charlotte.
- 15% movement boost if moving toward downed survivor.
- Other survivor risks a dangerous chase OR moves off of restrained survivor (Charlotte is far quicker than normal here).
- Downed survivor is picked up/taken to hook at a much quicker pace.
We're on the same page, correct? The intention was to stop multiple downs from slugging, while also not punishing the killer for playing more conventionally. Worse case scenario? It doesn't work, and changes can be reverted. At least, if we were working with a normal studio.
I see where you're coming from... but as long as there's counterplay to Victor after securing a down (which there is if you kick him after a down)... why shouldn't Victor be allowed to get multiple downs at all?
The problem with Twins isn't that they're too good at slugging (because they're not, there's a good few Killers who do it better than them), it's that they're too reliant on it because of their fatigues. So why shouldn't they be able to get multiple downs with Victor ever?
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488053#Comment_2488053
Victor could hold them down for 8 seconds, then automatically expire without the need to remove him as well.
Then what's the point? Survivors can already kick Victor after a down to stop him from chaining downs together, this would just be making their counterplay automatic. Survivors should have to actually use the Twins' counterplay to be able to counter them.
What would your change accomplish that letting them fatigue cancel so that Charlotte can start the picking up process after 3 seconds rather than 8 would not do?
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@BadMrFrosty said:
If they wanted the Twins to slug less, what they could do is the following:
- If Victor downs an injured survivor, he clings to them while they're on the ground, holding them there for Charlotte, slowing their recovery progress by 15%, and preventing crawling until recalled.
- Survivors can spend 8 seconds pulling Victor from a downed survivor and must do so before assisting them in their recovery.
- For 10 seconds after Victor has downed an injured survivor, Charlotte gains a 15% movement speed bonus when moving in the direction of the downed survivor.
Try those changes to start and see if they would work. The idea behind these alterations would be getting Charlotte to downed survivors faster, causing her to waste less time and toning down her need to slug/camp as much. The main problem the twins have when played like a conventional killer is that they waste too much time swapping between one another after downing a single survivor.
I've heard this suggested before, and call me crazy but that would incentivise Twins to slug in the early game SO MUCH MORE.
Because making a Survivor much harder to pick up when Victor downs them would mean Charlotte can just wander off and go pressure somebody else, knowing that whoever goes to pick them up will have a really hard time doing so without the need for you to switch.
What it would stop would be the Twins being able to chain multiple downs together, or chain a down-into-attach together which is how the Twins do well in the early game. And both those things are perfectly fine: Survivors can stop Victor chaining downs together already by kicking him after a down (and chaining downs together is something other Killers like Nurse, Plague or Oni get to use their powers for so idk why Twins shouldn't be able to do it). And down-into-attach is how you make up the time in the early game that you invest in getting your first hits in; again, like Oni.
If that happened, your average Twins game would result in the first Survivor Victor downs never being picked up, because Charlotte can suddenly VERY effectively camp the slug knowing that it'll take at least 8 seconds to pick the slug up. ESPECIALLY if they can't crawl. Twins would literally be bleeding people out on first down with almost nothing their team could do about it.
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@Zozzy said:
Lower the hit cooldown back to 3 and then increase victors respawn time ffs. Tired of kicking him after he downs a survivor only for him to come back before i can even pick the downed survivor up.
The respawn time is a massive part of the twins slugging ability and needs to be increased to 20 seconds (enough time for most killers to cross a map) to force the use of charlotte instead of the victor spam we get now.
20 seconds is FAR too long. Against a competent team, Victor will get exactly one health state, because either he attaches to someone healthy, meaning that you can't use him for 30+ seconds anyway, or he downs someone and gets insta kicked.
Especially since you don't gain distance from Victor, 20 seconds would just mean you're playing an M1 Killer for 80% of the match. A power that, if you play perfectly, can maybe get you one health state before going on cooldown for 20 seconds would make the Twins absolutely garbage. Compare that to something like Blight. Blight is a Killer who can get a hit or break a pallet after travelling across the entire map on a 10 second cooldown.
That's what Victor's respawn time should be. 10 seconds. Getting kicked can't be too punishing since you literally can't avoid it even if you play perfectly.
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@Sandt21 said:
Lore Guy?? is that you?
Yep, that's me!
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@lav3 said:
Twins definitely has some defects on killer side but the amount of complaints to Twins outnumbers and makes those defects acceptable and ignored in my opinion. I think Victor's cooldown to be 4 seconds would be enough but I don't know. After seeing how Freddy got changed recently, I am worried.
That's the thing: these changes would make Twins less reliant/capable of doing things Survivors don't like (removing Victor camping, allowing Charlotte to switch faster so she can actually get to you and pick you up faster).
My suggested changes would be a direct benefit to both sides.
Twins players would be able to turn downs into hooks more efficiently, making them less slug reliant, and Survivors don't get slugged as much. And stopping Victor being left under hooks would mean he's more usable in chase (which is a benefit to Twins players who want to chase with Victor) and mean he can't be used to camp (which benefits Survivors because then Victor can't facecamp them).
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@mechamobibo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483218#Comment_2483218
I'm not sure (but pretty confident) that he is weaker than Blight and Oni in chase and he does requires aiming all the time, that doesn't mean he isn't oppressive, however. Just to be clear, when I say oppressive I mean they leave very little room for counterplay or force one, very boring, type of counterplay. Dropping pallets early and vaulting them definitely counters Victor, but that's all you can do. He's fast so dodging/getting distance won't help you much.
The fact that he's stealthy makes him almost like Wraith, you get a free injury. The huntress comparison doesn't really work when you can't react to Victor, I'm pretty sure he's (at least close to) the fastest thing in the game while pouncing, so the distance you get while he's charging *I'M GUESSING* does nothing, if the Twins player predicts where you go you get hit, and this part specifically is fair, but not considering everything else I'm saying here.
And his respawn timer is so short that kicking him while Charlotte is near is practically useless.
Twins is definitely not a problem in the 1v4 (or "if you consider all 4 survivors" if you prefer it like that). The classic 2 groups of 2 survivors to make sure they can't snowball is pretty effective.
Relevant factors in this discussion:
-Victor Pounces at 746% speed, slower than a Slinger shot and a fully charged Huntress hatchet, but faster than a Demo Shred. He is reactable at mid range (a closer range than Huntress is reactable at).
-If Charlotte is far away, you can also hop in lockers to force a locker search if you're confident you can get out before Charlotte catches you.
-because he can't vault, many main buildings with multiple windows (e.g. Groaning Storehouse or Fractured Cowshed) are very good against him, and he's literally useless at harvesters and the Myers house balcony because those force the Killer to vault.
-Despite Victor not having a TR, he does make loud noises that let you know if he's close, so he's more like Freddy than Wraith.
And none of this is relevant to the discussion at hand: the Twins are borderline unusably clunky right now because 8 seconds of fatigue after a hit is just too long.
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@mechamobibo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2483187#Comment_2483187
I could be very wrong because I haven't faced many Twins. But isn't Victor a bit too oppressive? He's stealthy, fast, and has a lunge that hits through windows and pallets. What's your opinion on that?
Victor's strong, but far from unbeatable. He can't break pallets or vault windows, he can't M1 meaning he always has to aim, when he's winding up his attack he's as slow as Huntress winding up, and if you're healthy he has no way to down you. And even if he does get the down (i.e. you're already injured) someone else can just kick him... Plus you can kick him if he misses.
He's way less powerful in chase than something like Blight or Oni.
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@Pulsar said:
Unfortunately, the Twins are just poorly designed.
Their strengths are exceedingly unfun to play against, but there isn't much of another way to play them.
That's the thing: there wouldn't be much you'd need to change about them to make them MUCH more tolerable to go against.
Remove Victor camping and make them less slug-reliant by allowing Charlotte to get a pickup faster.
What is there to complain about beyond that?
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@tahilix said:
Lack of info about nerf aside, isnt this one supposed to counter Victor being essentialy a sentry out of survivors reach? If they cannot kick him, he is basically uncounterable area detection tool. It kind of makes sense to me.
But they could give us a nit of leeway with jumping on stuff by accident. It sucks to just go poof because you jumped onto trash bag when missing pounce.
It's still counterable: you can still crouchwalk to avoid his detection even if you can't kick him.
And now Survivors can put themselves in uncounterable situations like standing on top of the wire spools on Macmillan (that they can get on top of on maps like Coal Tower) where Victor can't follow them.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
She seems to be the only killer that kills for someone else(tell me if I'm wrong) not of anger,revenge,religion or fun, she just wants her smaller brother alive, it feels very close to home and I respect her...
Charlotte is a CHAD
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
If an object is the same height or higher than Victor, he dies. If he's out of bounds, he also dies.
That was how his collision used to work. Now if he's standing on anything that isn't as flat as a sheet of paper he die.
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@jakesotto said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2229630#Comment_2229630
I think it's a bit of a reach to say theres nothing new to implement at this point. Where's a fire killer? Wheres a killer who enchants/charms/seduces survivors, like a siren? Wheres the killer that can disguise themselves with the environment/as another survivor? Or create a whole new mechanic like they did with stalking.
Theres a hundred ideas they can go with rather than [mid ranged range attack], but that's all we seem to get. Demo, Twins, PH, Deathslinger, Trickster, Nemesis essentially share the same power, just with different playstyles.
In the past 12 months we've had some serious innovation. The Blight, for all my dislike for him, is a unique take on the mobility Killer formula, and the Twins are arguably the most creative and unique Killer Behaviour has ever made. Even Nemesis has some unique elements: the problem is that the unique element he provides (the zombies) aren't a unique element you actually get to play with because they're governed entirely by RNG.
BTW I'm so glad @MeltingPenguins and @JHondo liked my video on the matter :)
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@DwightFairfield said:
Too easy to snowball without any sort of warning or setup
Oni can snowball easily but he's loud and noticeable, and his demon dash can't do everything
Myers can snowball easily but his terror radius and presences allows you to prepare (At least in theory, if they don't pop tier 3 behind you)
Twins, if everyone is injured, can slug for the 4k and the survivors can't do much about it.
"Just bring unbreakable"
Yeah, next to the DS I need to bring for tunneling, the spine chill I need for stealth killers, the iron will I need for Spirit, the Dead Hard I need to prolong chases, the Small Game and Kindred I need if I want to play solo que, the Adrenaline I need if I want to clutch a chase during the endgame, and the balanced landing and lithe I need so the killer doesn't catch me in unsafe areas.
You can kick Victor after he gets a single down. I didn't know you could just kick Oni or Myers or Plague or Nurse to stop them slugging.
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The Twins have one of the highest skill ceilings in DBD, because the potential they have to make creative plays using map terrain and require a LOT of game sense to play against Survivors who know what they're doing. Their mechanical skill ceiling is far from the highest but you need a decent level of precision to do well with them: landing a clutch Pounce at max range past 2 people trying to bodyblock can be the difference between disabling a Key or letting 3 people get out with it.
They require a TON of micromanagement and game awareness, more than almost any other Killer in the game (Plague is probably their main contender, which is why I play them both so much). Knowing things like terrain climbing or window blocking with Victor, or where to bodyblock in chase with Charlotte, takes practice and foresight because of how hard you're punished by good Survivors if you mess up.
Against bad Survivors who don't punish you for your mistakes and don't use your counterplay against you, the Twins are very easy to play because Survivors effectively feed themselves to you because the average Survivor drops 60 IQ points when playing against the Twins. Against actually competent Survivors you HAVE to be clever and have to play smart/set up creative strategies to win, which is why a lot of Twins players get bullied so much.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Just went back to trying to play my girl after a while of not playing her because of how buggy she was.
(Apparently you still can't get survivors sick for some reason during some instances)
After playing a couple of matches with her, I got to wondering what kind of buffs she could get.
For me, I feel that her Corrupt Purge should do more. It is afterall her deadliest ability. An idea I had was that since her Vile Purge contaminates gens, her CP could damage gens in a similar fashion to how Pop does, but on a smaller scale. The reason why I think this would somewhat help her is because she already has to go (sometimes to the opposite side of the map) and consume it.
Another idea I had was that she could consume her CP from a distance, similar to how Oni picks up his blood orbs but maybe from a bit of a greater distance.
These were just some thoughts that pop into my head while playing her. Adiris is such an interesting character to me, and I really would love to see her get some attention at some point.
What do you avid Plague players think?
Buff her BP gain and sort her emblems out, and buff the Amulet family of addons because they suck, even the purple one only gives 8 seconds (compared to Oni's power duration addons which are AMAZING). Base kit, leave her alone. She's great as she is <3
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Favourite: Trapper, Doctor, Plague, Myers, Billy, Oni.
Least favourite: Spirit and Blight
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Twins have one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. Using Victor to climb structures and use verticality to your advantage, sniping with Victor off the tops of structures or through gaps to convert to hits, how to block windows correctly using Victor, knowing the perfect spots to block structures with Charlotte during chase without getting pallet stunned out of Victor control, mastering Victor positioning to switch mid-chase, knowing the angles to hit someone who's crouching behind a pallet or hitting someone mid-pallet drop, have the good sense to use each Victor deployment wisely without overslugging, using the information Victor gives you when he's abducted to your advantage, you have to know how to track through blood rather than scratchmarks which can be perplexing sometimes, you have to be able to capitalise on the stealth Victor attachment offers you and know how to conceal Charlotte's location during Victor control so you can catch Survivors off guard when Charlotte retakes control and regains her TR, PLUS you have to be good with the fundamental basics of an M1 Killer since you're still somewhat reliant on Charlotte.
Not to mention the plays you can make using one Twin for information or perspective by putting them in a high-visibility location while using the other to go where you see Survivors, or on maps like Midwich or The Game where you can chase on multiple floors at the same time.
If you think the Twins have a low ceiling for skill expression you are TERMINALLY incorrect. I play them because they are one of the biggest brain Killers you can play if you play them properly, and the fact that so many people still think they're braindead even after all this time and evidence to the contrary affirms just how big brain they can be.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162767#Comment_2162767
The no collision is mainly due to being able to fully block access to a hook while you play as Victor. As a survivor, you need to be able to access hooks. Blame people abusing that, not the devs. If 3 survivors are inside the basement and the killer just body blocks as Charlotte while searching you as Victor, there is nothing you can do.
The change is that you can adjust your camera while being Charlotte, allowing you to track before controlling rather than only having very limited vision. Add on to that fact that it's likely a bug that came with altering her values.
You already CAN access the basement if Charlotte's at the entrance because the basement is intentionally designed to be wide enough for a Killer to be unable to bodyblock it (except on new Abattoir with narrow basement stairs for some reason).
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@JHondo said:
I don't understand why they did this, Twins are one of the weaker killers in the game to begin with.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163953#Comment_2163953
I really enjoy your YouTube vids btw :)
Thanks. If the Twins are going to stay like this, hope you enjoy me enough to follow me to whatever else I start to do because I have very little reason to keep playing the game if the Twins are going to be this useless for anything other than camping.
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I might just give up on playing DBD if these changes don't get sorted soon because between all of them the Twins have basically just been shot.
This isn't cool, this is not OK.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Are you actually arguing body blocking was a skillful play?
Yes. To use it profitably you have to get it pretty much perfect, because if you get it even slightly off the Survivor can slip past you, and if you're using it in chase then you don't have time to misposition.
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The Twins nerf is perplexing. Plain and simple.
Those of us who actually played the Twins warned you about this on the PTB, that this nerf was a bizarre hit to them in a place they didn't need it, while Victor camping (both accidental and intentional) is still something that can be done, and is apparently what this nerf is encouraging since using Victor on a healthy OR injured survivor is something that the game now discourages you from doing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163217#Comment_2163217
How does this eviscerate Victor's chase? All it does it all but guarantee a survivor can crush you if you whiff your attack, or if you hit your attack on an injured survivor but two survivors are next to each other. It does nothing to hurt you in the 1v1 unless you're missing your attacks.
It applies to SUCCESSFUL hits, not missed ones. If you whiff your attack it's not affected.
A Survivor can travel 18m to kick Victor after a successful down and still have time for a kick... which is the same as Deathslinger's maximum range. "Next to each other" is pretty generous when Survivors are as lethal to you as Deathslinger is to Survivors. As long as one of them is on the same continent as you they'll be able to get the kick for sure.
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@Man_of_triangles said:
This seems like the Freddy nerf back in 2017 that was clearly intended to just put a lid on him so the complaints would stop.
Well, there aren't many of us, but suffice to say the complaints about this have only just begun.
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@Brokenbones said:
I don't think you making a video about it is enough for the devs to want to do anything about it.
Twins is one of the least popular killers for probably a lot of reasons and it seems to me like the issues are fundemental. 'Rework' territory for lack of a better term
Doesn't help that Twins is probably one of the hated killers to go against for a lot of people due to their typical playstyle. I don't mean to generalise though, It's not the same for everyone.
Thing is, they're not in rework territory though. When you don't camp with them they're fine, and none of the changes that have been made to them since they came out have actually hurt the camping. If anything, the changes have INCENTIVISED Twins players to camp by this last nerf eviscerating Victor's chase.
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@Pior_Morte said:
I have been summoned.
The Twins are spectacular. Their story is first rate. Their aesthetic design, SUBLIME and completely unique to DBD. Their gameplay; unlike anything else in this game. They have the most flexible power in the game with the single highest potential for 9000IQ gigabrain plays and a skill ceiling as of yet undefined.
They represent infinite possibilities, and I'm not giving up on them yet.
Nothing like them has ever been made before, and I doubt anything like them will ever be made again. They're something truly magical.
If they fixed the camping and smoothed out some of the hit registration bugs, I'd be willing to call em damn near perfect.
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Please don't touch her. Please.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/242075/from-one-of-planet-earths-two-twins-mains
The problem with twins is they are hard countered by staying in pairs. The nerf really makes no sense because it discourages slugging, but now it just encourages camping.
Really they should be changing twins to be more powerful when switching back and forth, because that is what makes them unique. It takes way too long to switch, and can't be used in chase. Imagine if you could switch much more quickly, you could chase, drop charlotte to body block, then switch to victor to land a hit. You can't really do that because you switch way too slow.
You can definitely do it, you just have to be selective about where you do. I do it pretty frequently and it's one of the reasons I love them so much. But it mostly works when Victor's already attached to you so you can deploy him from Charlotte rather than have to traipse across the map.
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@TruEternity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103681#Comment_2103681
Thing is, as the killer you don’t have to play perfectly, backrevving someone as victor is easy. Giving people who don’t know as much about the game a chance a counter play is not a bad thing. Besides, Victor respawns incredibly fast, so the reward for kicking him is already low.
I mean, landing a hit off the top of a building or round a corner by curving the Pounce or mindgaming someone out of a safe zone so you can get a clean shot or predicting a Dead Hard and hitting someone just as the animation ends is fundamentally hard to do, and that's something you have to be able to do when you're playing Twins against decent Survivors because they save time and let you make big plays.
That's like saying Billy's chainsaw shouldn't instadown because backrevving a chainsaw is easy and it would give worse Survivors more of a chance against it.
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@TruEternity said:
Victor did need a nerf, and honestly, this wasn't enough. Twins is an insanely good killer when used well, and one of the most frustrating to play against. They are way to good at slugging, and this is to slow good players down, so there is actual counter play to the killer, besides constantly traveling in pairs.
Every killer whining about the change is just being way overdramatic.
Thing is, good players were already countering Twins just fine. This doesn't add new counterplay to them, it just makes existing counterplay more forgiving of Survivors making mistakes. If the Twins player played perfectly to get the down, the Survivors should have to play perfectly or near-perfectly to negate that.
On live servers, I see people doing it successfully on a semi-regular basis and it can give me a genuinely hard time, so kicking Victor in three seconds is not an unrealistic demand since it only takes 0.35 seconds and again, Survivors who play well can usually already do it. All this change does is allow mediocre to bad Survivors who mess up consistently to "outplay" a Twins who plays perfectly.