Outland
Outland
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- Outland
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Stop asking for Legacy, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT ... DEAL WITH IT.
They have stated over and over again that Legacy is NEVER going to be awarded again.
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@powerbats said:
Lets be realistic here, they're talking about BL3 and about totally removing it once maps are balanced. It's never ever going to be nothing but Nurses only. If you have to use histrionics then you've already lost the debate. The changes being tested haven't even hit the PTB yet once again the sky is falling posts pop up.The same was true for the exhaustion enrf yet when it was survivors complaining the killers said it hasn't even come out yet. So wait until it actually gets tested and they say it's going live before using ye old sky is falling.
You can see that the OP does have a point however. If they make the nerf too extreme, it would mean more Killers being forced to switch to Nurse to overcome the need for Bloodlust at all.
While it hasn't hit any PTB yet , you can make predictions.
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@Tsulan said:
@Outland said:
@Tsulan said:
@OtterDoc said:
Why are these hooks not able to be sabotaged and stay sabotaged when the killer doesn't have the Amanda perk to bring them back? It doesn't say anywhere on the BBQ invite that the BBQ hooks cannot be sabotaged, so what's the deal? This seems kind of unfair and should be stated somewhere.Why do you want to sabotage those hooks permanently? Why ruin this event for killers? Are you really so miserable, that you only encounter joy by ruining the fun for everyone else?
Mostly because of Killers running, RUIN and Overcharge, and Kicking Event gens. Toxic builds meant to screw over the Survivors event. This is why people want to retaliate.
So trying to slow down the gen rush that is happening almost every match is the same as completely impeding that killers get their event points.
Nice logic.Imagine that killers could destroy a gen. Making it impossible for survivors to repair it. Thus impossible to get their event points. Sounds fair huh?
Oh wait, that wouldn´t be fun for survivors... So not gonna happen.Someone asked, I gave the reasons nothing more, I didn't say it was right.
But remember the Killers only need to hook the survivor, where as Survivors actually need to finish the gens.
If Killers need to hook people , find survivors at the BBQ Gens, because that is where they will be. Many survivors pass up normal gens looking for BBQ ones, and they often wait longer working on them before taking off at the heartbeat.
I've seen many posts estimating about 3-4 hours of Killer game play is enough to punch out the event requirements, if everyone one just let up on the toxicity for one week we would all probably have no problem making the event rewards.
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@Tsulan said:
@OtterDoc said:
Why are these hooks not able to be sabotaged and stay sabotaged when the killer doesn't have the Amanda perk to bring them back? It doesn't say anywhere on the BBQ invite that the BBQ hooks cannot be sabotaged, so what's the deal? This seems kind of unfair and should be stated somewhere.Why do you want to sabotage those hooks permanently? Why ruin this event for killers? Are you really so miserable, that you only encounter joy by ruining the fun for everyone else?
Mostly because of Killers running, RUIN and Overcharge, and Kicking Event gens. Toxic builds meant to screw over the Survivors event. This is why people want to retaliate.
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@Peanits said:
No, it has been rescheduled due to reasons mentioned here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/12375/status-update-from-the-dev-team#latestthanks for the info
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@Unit said:
feffrey said:To the Idiot who doesn't use NOED get gud
Noed is a crutch perk that takes no skill xD
Another misinformed person who thinks NOED is a crutch.
NOED is a gamble.
The Killer is playing handicapped by only using 3 perks for the entire game. They are banking that fourth perk on a long shot, that may or may not pay off. Trading no perk for a slightly more powerful one later on.
It doesn't reward bad play, the Killer was counting on needing the additional firepower later. And saved u p for it.
Stop thinking the NOED is a free OP perk that rewards bad play, it is anything but. The Killer is weaker to start and more powerful in the end.
If you don't like it as a survivor, then by all means do the dull totems you see all around, take a time out from the gen rush. Earn a free 600 BP and deny NOED.
But do educate yourself on the actual cost of using NOED for the Killer.
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@Esheon said:
I've said it before... Give the host a concede option that is only available after the gates are OPEN (not just powered). Using the concede option stops the match instantly, and points are tallied as though any survivors remaining in the match had escaped through the hatch (even if they were struggling on the hook). The killer can give up after failing to find the crouching troll, the living survivors get a 2k BP bonus for forcing a concede, and everyone gets to move on to the next match.I'm not a fan of this solution one bit. Let's do a little tally of your idea.
Killer concedes, all survivors still in the match get 7500 (Hatch Points) + an additional 2000 for forcing a concede. So roughly 9500 reward for being dicks as staying in the damn game.
This solution would increase the problem not fix it.
How about after 3-4 mins of the gate being opened the Hatch closes if it was open, survivors are INSTA DOWNED and their AURA lights up, so the Killer can go around an hang'em up.
Just so the Entity can remind Survivors that hope can always be taken away.
Seems to me that people would just get out if they had something to lose. Why punish a guy who already had a crap game?
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@Chrona said:
I'm just going to ask this rhetorically to see what people think. What is the purpose of the hatch?In my eyes, it's meant to be an alternate minor objective. The main objectives of the survivors is to repair the generators to power the gates. Frankly, once it's down one survivor alone, that objective ranges from impossible, to mildly difficult depending on how many generators are left. If absolutely no generators were done before 3 people died? One, that's insane, but it's also kind of insane to force the sole survivor (heh) to do all 5 generators THEN open a gate. 2 generators will likely will have been finished before all the other survivors die. This leaves the last survivor with a question: Do you, essentially, do nothing, and spend your time hunting for the hatch? Or work on X generators, and open a gate? Because the hatch IS an instant escape that you have already met the prerequisites for, most people hunt for the hatch. Especially on the smaller maps. Finding the hatch in the game is a lot easier than say, rotten fields (first big map I could think of, honestly).
Most survivors, I think, will go for the hatch most of the time. Unless there is just one generator left, or all are complete and they just have to get a gate, that's about the only time I think a survivor would still go the normal route. Beyond that, the killer usually starts hunting for the hatch too. And even if they find it first, they can't really "patrol it" or they might flat out tell the survivor it's there by accident.
I feel like to make it more balanced (and or 'feel' better), there should be two things added. One is, as people have said, essentially a reason FOR the killer to hunt for the hatch. Because unless they find it at the same time as the survivor, it isn't necessarily beneficial. I feel like the killer getting the ability to outright kill the survivor wouldn't really fix the problem, it would only treat the symptom. The problem is that the killer can't interact with the hatch in any way, there's not true incentive to find it. The symptom is hatch standoffs. I didn't play the PTB, so I don't know how the kicking of the hatch worked exactly.
The second is a small, but important prerequisite unique to the hatch escape. Something like, 5-10 or however many seconds to actually, say, OPEN the hatch (ie, it's "unlocked" once it's down to one survivor with at least 2 generators finished, but then the survivor has to actually push open the hatch. Probably similar in animation/timing to searching a chest). This makes the hatch escape slightly more risky, but also gives the killer a chance to punish survivors that find it a tad too late, etc.
I like the idea of the hatch being like an exit gate. It would definitely limit the standoff potential.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure, you just don't want to work for your escape, as in doing one second more play then is required to jump in a hole is ridiculous and unfair.ME: Your idea is bad and unbalanced.
YOU: DUURRRR You must want free escapes.No. It's a bad solution. I want something fair and reasonable. Your idea is neither.
Write me another essay about what you assume about me.
I'm assuming you can't read.
We'd love to hear what you think is fair and reasonable.
But again no counter solutions, just more nondescript complaints.
You and I will just have to disagree on this one.
Thanks for your additions to the thread.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Outland said:
Yep a minute later they come back in and que again, where as you are out 20k in items and offerings, seems like a fair exchange.I don't bring in items anyway, so it doesn't really matter for me at all.
Boo I lost my brown BP offering. Woe is me. I've been defeated.
Then you are set, the dc effects you in no way, but most people are effected and SWF groups hate it even more because they are forced to go and remake their group.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
Time for you to leave it alone. I asked for suggestions on how to fix my solution, not just a blanket "It's Dumb"No there is no fixing it. It's a bad idea. Period.
Come up with something that's not completely OP favoring killers and we will talk.
Then you sir are trolling, thanks for the jokes!
Peace
The rest of us will discuss it like grown ups.Not trolling dude. Your idea is awful and one sided.
But if you need to defend your ego that bad...
The original idea is not one sided at all. Please read it again.
We replace the stand off portion with a one click wins for both the Survivor and the Killer this is balanced. The Survivor one click jumps in and the Killer one click snatches you up and murders you.
If the survivor gets to the hatch first, bam he's out, just like now.
If the Killer gets there, he has a choice to sit at the hatch and have insta kill (again this insta kill is ONLY at the hatch), or try and hunt down the survivor, with normal two hit down mechanics.One gen required to power the gates, and gens can no longer be regressed. Allowing a survivor who's hatch is being camped a pretty easy way of escaping. This is easy mode, if the Killer is out and about looking for the survivor, then the hatch is still wide open and can be taken if you get there.
If anything the Killer has it pretty rough, they are forced to think about should they camp up the hatch or move around, because either is a pretty sure fire way to lose. Specially if the gens are across the map from the hatch.
Yeah I'm pretty sure, you just don't want to work for your escape, as in doing one second more play then is required to jump in a hole is ridiculous and unfair.
So yeah I have thought this one out quite a bit, and since you have nothing real to say other then its Killer sided op. I'm going to dismiss your opinion on this one, thanks for playing.
Its got nothing to do with my ego and everything to do with your inability to judge fair.
You seem stuck on the insta kill part. So lets try this for you. Lets remove that part, but instead there is no hatch now. Gens still can't be regressed, and one gen will power the doors. Is it fair now?
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@Visionmaker said:
@Outland said:
@Visionmaker said:
@Master said:
@kotoalex12 said:
I was just wondering if there is any particular reason that survivors who go into a lobby with friends spawn into the lobby at the same time. It is difficult enough for my friends and I to find matches when we play together and some killers see that 2-4 of us come in at the same time and instantly back out of the lobby making us wait more time to find a match and hopefully not have the killer quit. Is it possible for devs to change the way people spawn into the lobby that way killers can't tell who is playing with friends and who isn't?Do you prefer it when the killer DCs ingame? I believe that lobby dodging is the only reason why killers basically never DC. If you wanna have a killer DC rate as high as the survivor Dc rate, go ahead
Yes. Give me that 5k survival points.
You can be sure most of the Killers will use alt f4, so no 5k for you. And no item keeping either.
No problem. Just means they can't queue again right away, so fewer dodgers for my next match.
Yep a minute later they come back in and que again, where as you are out 20k in items and offerings, seems like a fair exchange.
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I believe that sloppy butcher should also speed up the bleed out rate. Making Sloppy Butcher a must have for slug builds.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Master said:
@kotoalex12 said:
I was just wondering if there is any particular reason that survivors who go into a lobby with friends spawn into the lobby at the same time. It is difficult enough for my friends and I to find matches when we play together and some killers see that 2-4 of us come in at the same time and instantly back out of the lobby making us wait more time to find a match and hopefully not have the killer quit. Is it possible for devs to change the way people spawn into the lobby that way killers can't tell who is playing with friends and who isn't?Do you prefer it when the killer DCs ingame? I believe that lobby dodging is the only reason why killers basically never DC. If you wanna have a killer DC rate as high as the survivor Dc rate, go ahead
Yes. Give me that 5k survival points.
You can be sure most of the Killers will use alt f4, so no 5k for you. And no item keeping either.
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@Visionmaker said:
Sounds fine to me, as long as survivors only need one gen to power the gates.Yep just one more gen, is how I would see it, that says to me that the survivor has the skill to get something done and deserves to escape. Not just stumbling down a hole.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
Time for you to leave it alone. I asked for suggestions on how to fix my solution, not just a blanket "It's Dumb"No there is no fixing it. It's a bad idea. Period.
Come up with something that's not completely OP favoring killers and we will talk.
Then you sir are trolling, thanks for the jokes!
Peace
The rest of us will discuss it like grown ups. -
@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
@thesuicidefox said:
I love how killer mains suggest solutions to the hatch standoff that clearly 100% benefits them and only them because they so desperately want a 4k.How about when the hatch spawns all survivors just die instantly? Seems fair right?
Ok man, what about my solution said Killer only solution?
The fact that the killer gets an instant mori. SMH How do you not see that as being completely overpowered?
An insta-mori, if you are naive enough to walk up to the Killer standing at the Hatch. This is what is supposed to make the Survivor want to go do a gen. Right now they have no reason to not stroll up to the Killer and stand there waiting.
So I countered the insta-mori with the gens not being able to be regressed, so you can get bits done here and there , and if the Killer is off shooing you off the gens, guess what, THE HATCH IS UNPROTECTED, go get it.
I never said the Killer gets to close it.
So its powerful, but only if you are so ignorant as to walk up in front of him.
The range is completely arbitrary. How would I know I'm close enough to get instant mori'ed? By the sound? Yea, because sounds are such a reliable way to measure distance in this game.
Dude it's a stupid idea. Completely OP in favor of the killer. Not regressing gens does not make up for the fact you can be instantly killed.
The only thing that removes the stand off is if the Killer can one click win, just like the survivor. This is the part that removes the standoff. Try to wrap your mind around that.
Insta Killed when right next to the Hatch, everywhere else is the same two hit down mechanic.
Time for you to leave it alone. I asked for suggestions on how to fix my solution, not just a blanket "It's Dumb"
The fact that you are a survivor main is showing and anything other then "I get to teabag my way out the hatch", is stupid.
Add to the conversation or kindly just leave it.
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@Larcz said:
I got solution for this problem.Remove hatch git gut.And when surv reperair gen no info about gen was done over here for killer and gates are power up.Survivors would lose their mind if the Hatch was removed. Its a simple solution, but it'll never happen.
But what do you think about the actual solution I posted, have any thoughts on what is good, what is bad, and what could be tweaked to make it better?
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Outland said:
@thesuicidefox said:
I love how killer mains suggest solutions to the hatch standoff that clearly 100% benefits them and only them because they so desperately want a 4k.How about when the hatch spawns all survivors just die instantly? Seems fair right?
Ok man, what about my solution said Killer only solution?
The fact that the killer gets an instant mori. SMH How do you not see that as being completely overpowered?
An insta-mori, if you are naive enough to walk up to the Killer standing at the Hatch. This is what is supposed to make the Survivor want to go do a gen. Right now they have no reason to not stroll up to the Killer and stand there waiting.
So I countered the insta-mori with the gens not being able to be regressed, so you can get bits done here and there , and if the Killer is off shooing you off the gens, guess what, THE HATCH IS UNPROTECTED, go get it.
I never said the Killer gets to close it.
So its powerful, but only if you are so ignorant as to walk up in front of him.
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@C4Garuda said:
Awwwww so me kicking you and denying the unhook isnt scummy enough for you, you scummy piece of scum? Scum it up like a real man, and go scum yourself!If that mechanic was in the game, I'd support it. 100% and it would be a proper solution to this instead of removing my points for an unhook.
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@TheHourMan said:
Ok, bye. Have fun with that. This change actually gives us more freedom because it punishes survivors who intentionally get us killed, thus allowing us to actually play the game. Also, if you didnt unhook, someone else would.mist likely when the killer is gone.Try reading more then a few lines, this entire thing was based on there just being two survivors left in the game. And one survivor daring to leave the hatch camp, to get the second last guy off the hook.
But I understand you wanted to get that last jab in before the thread ends.
And again I don't actually play this way, but I support peoples right to play it.
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@thesuicidefox said:
I love how killer mains suggest solutions to the hatch standoff that clearly 100% benefits them and only them because they so desperately want a 4k.How about when the hatch spawns all survivors just die instantly? Seems fair right?
Ok man, what about my solution said Killer only solution?
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@pauloandrade22 said:
@Outland said:
@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.
Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.
Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.
And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.
And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.
This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.
Speak for yourself please.
Are you referring to the human nature remark? If so you are not being truthful to yourself. Other then family its human nature to preserve your own life above all else. Why would I die for a complete stranger? (The initial concept of the game was for 4 complete strangers to enter into the ordeal).
If you want to see how truthful this would be, change the game on two fronts.
One no SWF, and two only one person can escape, and everyone else gets nothing, not points, just a thanks for playing, try again.
You see how fast the gameplay would change.
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@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:
@TheHourMan said: Outland said:
@TheHourMan said: You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away. Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points. Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd. And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself. And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live. This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.
If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.
Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.
Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.
No. They're not. You can still get loads of points for going lone wolf. And you can still get loads of points for unhooking. You just can't get loads of points for preventing other players from escaping. You are wanting to be rewarded for actively stopping other survivors from escaping. It is the exact same thing as sandbagging and holding another player in place with heal. You shouldnt be rewarded for those either. Unhooking another player is to save them. Unhooking them in a situation where it got them killed is entirely your fault. It is the killer's job to hit people and if you fed him a free hit, you are helping the killer at the expense of other players. That is explicity stated as being agains the rules as a bannable offense.
I'm unhooking in front of a Killer, there is a element of risk there. The Killer could just as easily hit me. If the killer hits them, not my fault, its not working with them at all. Its taking guess that the Killer will take the easy way out and down the hurt guy.
And again they were as good as dead anyways. If I didn't unhook them, then they die on the hook.
Anyways I'm getting tired of defending your rights to play as free as you want. If you guys want to let your freedoms get punished I guess there is no fixing it. Just remember when it goes through, and then they eventually punish a behaviour that you don't feel should have a point punish on, I tried to warn you.
Or when no one comes to dehook you because... well its just not worth the risk. Enjoy those hooks, but of course you won't stay on the hook and drag out the camp, you'll just DC because no one is helping.
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@Orion said:
@Outland said:
Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.
You were never guaranteed to get points for any and all manner of play. That's a sandbox game. If you want a sandbox game, go play one.
Yeah you were, you do the action you get points, its currently coded that way, and they are now changing it to be otherwise.
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@KillingInstinct said:
@Outland said:
@KillingInstinct said:
@Outland said:
@KillingInstinct said:
It would be a bit overpowered since Michael has to do something to get the insta kill. He is 9% slower when using tombstone and needs to get EW 3 with tombstone piece and Judith's tombstoneOk buddy, do you want a solution to the Hatch stand off that can last hours or not????
Don't forget the Snatch and Kill is only powered when within the sound of the Hatch, not the entire map.
The solution turns up the heat on the end game standoff. Stop looking at it from a survivor point of view and think from both sides, are both sides being looked after here?
Survivor keeps Hatch if they find it first ... Check
Does Killers kill if they find the Hatch first ... Check
Does Survivor have a feasible alternate way of playing should the Hatch be camped .... CheckIs this anything but standing a meter away starring at each other ... check
I was looking at it from a killer's standpoint since I mostly play killer xD
And you honestly think this is too OP? What would you change to make it more acceptable?
I would honestly like what Mister_xD suggested. That way the survivor is rewarded for even getting another gen done and the killer has been given the chance to kill the survivor and to close the hatch
They tried that exact solution on the PTB and it was shot down.
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@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:
@TheHourMan said: You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away. Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.
Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.
And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.
And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.
This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.
If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.
Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.
Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.
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@Grey87 said:
Completely one sided.
That's not called balance.Easy solution I use all the time when I play killer - I don't do the standoff, I hit em and let them have it. But then again , even when I catch the last one I let them have the hatch anyway.
You do standoff , it's your own fault , there's no need for a fix because you think you deserve to get a 4k.How is this one sided. Explain it!
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@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@Orion said:
@Outland said:
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?
They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.
By taking away the points for an action, it makes it so that the action isn't viable/profitable. Therefore they are modifying game play. And I've never been one for much censoring of anything in my life, so I find taking away my points for the actions of a third party (the Killer) as unacceptable.
Should you be rewarded for sandbagging someone for the killer? I mean, whether or not they get hit is entirely up to a third party (the Killer)
But I don't get points for that, if I drop a pallet and stun the Killer and sandbag the player... yeah 100% I deserve the points for it. Are you saying that they should also be stripping points for that scenario as well?
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@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.
Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.
Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.
And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.
And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.
This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.
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@Orion said:
@Outland said:
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.
By taking away the points for an action, it makes it so that the action isn't viable/profitable. Therefore they are modifying game play. And I've never been one for much censoring of anything in my life, so I find taking away my points for the actions of a third party (the Killer) as unacceptable.
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@TheHourMan said:
You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.
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@KillingInstinct said:
@Outland said:
@KillingInstinct said:
It would be a bit overpowered since Michael has to do something to get the insta kill. He is 9% slower when using tombstone and needs to get EW 3 with tombstone piece and Judith's tombstoneOk buddy, do you want a solution to the Hatch stand off that can last hours or not????
Don't forget the Snatch and Kill is only powered when within the sound of the Hatch, not the entire map.
The solution turns up the heat on the end game standoff. Stop looking at it from a survivor point of view and think from both sides, are both sides being looked after here?
Survivor keeps Hatch if they find it first ... Check
Does Killers kill if they find the Hatch first ... Check
Does Survivor have a feasible alternate way of playing should the Hatch be camped .... CheckIs this anything but standing a meter away starring at each other ... check
I was looking at it from a killer's standpoint since I mostly play killer xD
And you honestly think this is too OP? What would you change to make it more acceptable?
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@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:
@WhateverIGuess said: Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty. :) I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed. I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to. Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line? All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs. There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable. I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded. Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent. We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.
There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over. The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.
The only problem with this is that if I don't try, they 100% just die on that hook. And if I do try there is a chance they get away. Who is that guy who says, a small chance at escaping and making more points... nah F'That I'll just die here on this hook.
Once you are on that hook, you really don't have much of a choice anyways, struggle for a few more points or just give up and die. Once you are hooked , whether you like it or not, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER OBJECTIVE. And if I do the action I deserve the points.
There is zero chance they get away if the killer is two feet away from them. The only chance they have is if the killer decides to intentionally let them go. You don't deserve points for "saving" a member of your TEAM and dooming them at the same time, intentionally. If you did it by mistake, fine, fair mistake. But if you did it intentionally, knowing full well that there is nothing they can do to get away, then you don't deserve to be rewarded for that.
They get away if the Killer, (like so many on this thread have stated) goes after the unhooker. Its not a 100% death rate unlike leaving them on the hook is. The dooming depends entirely on the Killer , something the unhooker has 0 control over. Again I say the action was done, and the points were rewarded. Removing points is a real bad idea.
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?
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@KillingInstinct said:
It would be a bit overpowered since Michael has to do something to get the insta kill. He is 9% slower when using tombstone and needs to get EW 3 with tombstone piece and Judith's tombstoneOk buddy, do you want a solution to the Hatch stand off that can last hours or not????
Don't forget the Snatch and Kill is only powered when within the sound of the Hatch, not the entire map.
The solution turns up the heat on the end game standoff. Stop looking at it from a survivor point of view and think from both sides, are both sides being looked after here?
Survivor keeps Hatch if they find it first ... Check
Does Killers kill if they find the Hatch first ... Check
Does Survivor have a feasible alternate way of playing should the Hatch be camped .... CheckIs this anything but standing a meter away starring at each other ... check
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@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.
I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.
I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.
Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?
All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.
There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.
I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.
Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.
We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.
There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over. The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.
The only problem with this is that if I don't try, they 100% just die on that hook. And if I do try there is a chance they get away. Who is that guy who says, a small chance at escaping and making more points... nah F'That I'll just die here on this hook.
Once you are on that hook, you really don't have much of a choice anyways, struggle for a few more points or just give up and die. Once you are hooked , whether you like it or not, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER OBJECTIVE. And if I do the action I deserve the points.
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Tricking Killers into playing a SWF group when they really have no interest in playing them will lead to more Killers just dropping the game. If you are lucky they'll quit the match and not just kill the process.
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@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.
I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.
Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?
All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.
There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.
I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.
Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.
We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.
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@Visionmaker said:
Outland said:@Visionmaker said:
Hook farming should only be allowed if you can fight back or kill a teammate.
It's one-sided. It's unfun being killed. Being a "solo" player doesn't mean you should be able to deliberately kill a teammate with zero repurcussion or resistance. I can choose to equip Bond and OoO to sabotage my team every game, does that mean I should be rewarded?
It's a braindead suggestion. The category is called BENEVOLENCE and ALTRUISM, yet you think you are entitled to points for not being benevolent and altruistic?
Emblems are another thing all together, if I don't care about emblems, why do I need to behave a certain way?
Do searching chests fit in any emblem category? I'm not sure if they do, but there sure is a BP award for opening one. If say chests had a chance of being totally empty. It would be like opening a chest and getting the point reward for it, but there not being anything in the chest, so they take away my searching points.
I still spent the time opening the chest and leaving myself vulnerable. I deserve the points for action made, not the item I found or didn't find in this example.
The points that I earn by doing actions in the game, risking my own neck to get closer to the Killer, those points should be awarded regardless of the outcome of the actions. That's why they are awarded when you do the action.
Chests are objectives. You get OBJECTIVE points. Items inside serve to help you escape. Even not taking the item helps your team. Chests do not grant emblem points because the emblem is called LIGHT BRINGER (powering generators and door). Chests are not empty, there is no comparison.
The Bloodpoints category for unhooking is called ALTRUISM. Please look up what it means, because you are not entitled to ALTRUISM points for harming your teammates.
The chest thing was an analogy, but never mind its meaning was lost on you anyways.
And unhooking the teammate is NOT HARMING them, it is giving them a chance at freedom. If the Killer decides to tunnel them, how is that my fault? The Killer could have just as easily picked me to down. Why should I be denied points for an action I performed because the Killer decided to take the easy kill? I have no say as to how the Killer will react. Why are my earned points dependent upon a third players play style?
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@Visionmaker said:
Hook farming should only be allowed if you can fight back or kill a teammate.It's one-sided. It's unfun being killed. Being a "solo" player doesn't mean you should be able to deliberately kill a teammate with zero repurcussion or resistance. I can choose to equip Bond and OoO to sabotage my team every game, does that mean I should be rewarded?
It's a braindead suggestion. The category is called BENEVOLENCE and ALTRUISM, yet you think you are entitled to points for not being benevolent and altruistic?
Emblems are another thing all together, if I don't care about emblems, why do I need to behave a certain way?
Do searching chests fit in any emblem category? I'm not sure if they do, but there sure is a BP award for opening one. If say chests had a chance of being totally empty. It would be like opening a chest and getting the point reward for it, but there not being anything in the chest, so they take away my searching points.
I still spent the time opening the chest and leaving myself vulnerable. I deserve the points for action made, not the item I found or didn't find in this example.
The points that I earn by doing actions in the game, risking my own neck to get closer to the Killer, those points should be awarded regardless of the outcome of the actions. That's why they are awarded when you do the action.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
@Outland said:
@FrenziedRoach said:
@Outland said:
@AmorePrincess said:
You can play as a team, or you can play aa a lone survivor. But playing solo doesnt mean you have to play scummy and ruin the others gameplay.These changes are great, seeing there are so many thinking like you.
How is leaving you on the hook to die, while I sit on the Hatch more fun then , me unhooking you and perhaps you get away and I end up on the hook?
One way ensures you die, and the other gives a chance for survival.
Because taking away the incentive to risk interaction with the hooked person, makes just camping the hatch and waiting for you to struggle out much more appealing.
Hook farming rewards the killer though, where as hatch camping robs the killer.
What is it you are after?
My point is, if I'm waiting on the Hatch. The possibility of getting more points to unhook in danger might bring me to at least try and rescue. Where as if they punish for unsuccessful attempts.. why even try. I'll just wait it out and take the sure thing.
We aren't talking Killers here, we are talking the hooked survivors chance of surviving. A hatch camp makes sure the other survivor dies, while an attempt at least has a chance of being successful.
So why should you try? Is it wrong you are discouraged from trying in this instance if you can't make a safe unhook?
I'm not seeing what the problem is.
The other survivors might like a chance at surviving instead of a for sure death on hook.
I'm beginning to think you don't want to think this out for yourself.
If a Killer is patrolling a hook. And I'm now punished for unsuccessful saves, there is no reason to come and try the save. End result Survivor dies and Killer gets his one Kill. And Hatch camper gets their reward. A mostly boring end.
If I have an incentive to try and unhook, the following happens. Hooked Survivor gets a chance at surviving, and the Killer gets another chance at scoring more points. Whether its downing the unhooked or the unhooker. End result more points for some of the people involved. This is ideal because it is anything but boring.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
@Outland said:
@AmorePrincess said:
You can play as a team, or you can play aa a lone survivor. But playing solo doesnt mean you have to play scummy and ruin the others gameplay.These changes are great, seeing there are so many thinking like you.
How is leaving you on the hook to die, while I sit on the Hatch more fun then , me unhooking you and perhaps you get away and I end up on the hook?
One way ensures you die, and the other gives a chance for survival.
Because taking away the incentive to risk interaction with the hooked person, makes just camping the hatch and waiting for you to struggle out much more appealing.
Hook farming rewards the killer though, where as hatch camping robs the killer.
What is it you are after?
My point is, if I'm waiting on the Hatch. The possibility of getting more points to unhook in danger might bring me to at least try and rescue. Where as if they punish for unsuccessful attempts.. why even try. I'll just wait it out and take the sure thing.
We aren't talking Killers here, we are talking the hooked survivors chance of surviving. A hatch camp makes sure the other survivor dies, while an attempt at least has a chance of being successful.
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@AmorePrincess said:
You can play as a team, or you can play aa a lone survivor. But playing solo doesnt mean you have to play scummy and ruin the others gameplay.These changes are great, seeing there are so many thinking like you.
How is leaving you on the hook to die, while I sit on the Hatch more fun then , me unhooking you and perhaps you get away and I end up on the hook?
One way ensures you die, and the other gives a chance for survival.
Because taking away the incentive to risk interaction with the hooked person, makes just camping the hatch and waiting for you to struggle out much more appealing.
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@Sally55 said:
@Outland said:
@Sally55 said:
@Outland said:
@chemical_reject said:
You are not entitled to be a scumbaglol, yeah, actually I am, I can drop pallet after pallet , after pallet, and there is literally nothing you can do to stop me.
I can sandbag your butt all day long. I can actually join in on your gen and purposely miss skill checks. I can heal you at in opportune times. I can vault windows while you try to work the gen in the shack.
Scummy is there for the taking.
As long as I get out of the match, that's the end game. Whether you see another day or not, concerns me none.
It shouldn't be the devs job to take away freedoms, because they are unpopular.
If you guys don't like me wasting every pallet, I guess its up to you guys to make sure the Killer finds me and punishes me, but wait a second that would mean doing scummy things to get me caught, now wouldn't it.
Then i will just camp you and let everyone else go. Trash like you deserves everything that comes your way sweety.
Like I said before, I'd like a conversation about this, without name calling and the like.
Now how long would you let everyone else go?, if there was one guy in every game that played that way. Would you continue to take the hit , BP and Emblem wise? Every game you'd just depip and and accept a crappy BP reward? Because you know, that alone would be a reward to some people. And justification to playing scummy.
There is always that possibility of getting tunneled by the Killer (I've done that exact thing). But for every Killer like us, there are many more that would take the guaranteed BPs and hook without even thinking about who it is. After all they are actually in it to win it solo.
And to just clear this up, I do not play the way I'm defending. But I do believe that if there are people out there who want to play to make sure THEY survive, then they should be allowed to. And if they want to unhook people in hopes that they get wiped out, then more power to them.
You make it sound as if being a douchebag to others inn game is acceptable. In real life people like that don't last long and either end up in the morgue as a corpse or worse. In this game selfish survivors often don't last even a minute i can guarantee you that.
I agree with you, on that point.
Then that should be punishment enough... right? Why does there also need to be a punishment of point removal?
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@FrenziedRoach said:
I'm happy for it, as it means i can punish bad unhooks even harder now as killer.So you are just out to teach lessons? Or are you just happy to find another way to rob survivors of points and their own way to play?
PLAY MY WAY OR GET SMACKED!!!!
This is the problem with society on a whole, we are to willing to have people restrict what we can and can't do.
I support survivors to play however they want, and I also support having Killers punish those behaviours if that's how they want to play. But I do not think that the devs should be REMOVING points for anything.
Emblems scores reductions are fine , but actions in the game that award BP's are just that awards. I risked an action to get the points. The Killer could have just as easily downed me. I risked the behaviour and I should get the award for it.
Maybe they should be giving the unhooked/rehooked survivor a BP award for being farmed?
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@Nickenzie said:
Sally55 said:Then i will just camp you and let everyone else go. Trash like you deserves everything that comes your way sweety.
I'd like to introduce you to the nurse, she hates survivors that ruin other survivors games @Sally55!
For real @Outland, your not suppose to farm other survivors, sandbag, and etc... It's not right! I was playing Pig once and this Dwight was farming everyone, eventually I felt bad for his victims so I let the people who got farmed by him survive. Additionally I sent a message to the survivors that got farmed by him to go tea bag him while I was repeatedly hitting him on the hook! Seriously, I absolutely hate people who farm! No, he wasn't new to the game either, it was a high ranked match which blows my mind even more!Seems this unsafe unhooking, is an issue, right? They are trying to come up with a solution. Which means more often then not the Killer will take the tunnel and downs the easy prey. If Killers were so "WhiteKnightish" then there wouldn't be a problem. Killers would go after the unhooker and all would be good.
I do not think survivors should be penalized for playing the game greedy.
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@Sally55 said:
@Outland said:
@chemical_reject said:
You are not entitled to be a scumbaglol, yeah, actually I am, I can drop pallet after pallet , after pallet, and there is literally nothing you can do to stop me.
I can sandbag your butt all day long. I can actually join in on your gen and purposely miss skill checks. I can heal you at in opportune times. I can vault windows while you try to work the gen in the shack.
Scummy is there for the taking.
As long as I get out of the match, that's the end game. Whether you see another day or not, concerns me none.
It shouldn't be the devs job to take away freedoms, because they are unpopular.
If you guys don't like me wasting every pallet, I guess its up to you guys to make sure the Killer finds me and punishes me, but wait a second that would mean doing scummy things to get me caught, now wouldn't it.
Then i will just camp you and let everyone else go. Trash like you deserves everything that comes your way sweety.
Like I said before, I'd like a conversation about this, without name calling and the like.
Now how long would you let everyone else go?, if there was one guy in every game that played that way. Would you continue to take the hit , BP and Emblem wise? Every game you'd just depip and and accept a crappy BP reward? Because you know, that alone would be a reward to some people. And justification to playing scummy.
There is always that possibility of getting tunneled by the Killer (I've done that exact thing). But for every Killer like us, there are many more that would take the guaranteed BPs and hook without even thinking about who it is. After all they are actually in it to win it solo.
And to just clear this up, I do not play the way I'm defending. But I do believe that if there are people out there who want to play to make sure THEY survive, then they should be allowed to. And if they want to unhook people in hopes that they get wiped out, then more power to them.
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@chemical_reject said:
You are not entitled to be a scumbaglol, yeah, actually I am, I can drop pallet after pallet , after pallet, and there is literally nothing you can do to stop me.
I can sandbag your butt all day long. I can actually join in on your gen and purposely miss skill checks. I can heal you at in opportune times. I can vault windows while you try to work the gen in the shack.
Scummy is there for the taking.
As long as I get out of the match, that's the end game. Whether you see another day or not, concerns me none.
It shouldn't be the devs job to take away freedoms, because they are unpopular.
If you guys don't like me wasting every pallet, I guess its up to you guys to make sure the Killer finds me and punishes me, but wait a second that would mean doing scummy things to get me caught, now wouldn't it.
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@Sally55 said:
@Outland said:
@Nickenzie said:
Outland said:This game has always said that game play is up to the player. Do you work with the team and work at escaping. Or do you play more solo, hiding and allowing the others to do the work.
I do not have to out run the Killer, I just have to out run you applies. Sandbagging is a thing and if that's how you want to play that's your right.
Now after watching the latest Q&A, they say they are looking at punishing unsafe unhooks. This goes against the freedom of playing scummy. If its down to me and you and I want to unhook you so that hopefully you go down again quicker, and let the hatch spawn so I can get out that should be a option.
How many people have just waited while the second last guy struggles and dies so you can grab the hatch. Loads of us have.
Like real life the game is filled with lots of personality types, the work together types and the let the world burn just so long as I escape types. I do not think that survivors that are in it for themselves should be punished point wise for being "that guy".
When it comes down to it, if the game only let one person leave a match, we would all be cut-throat. Why do we need to punish people who don't wish to play "for the team"?
Have you been on the receiving end of being farmed? I'm just going let that sink in for a second.
I have, and believe it or not, I'm fine with it. I re-up and play again, and maybe this time I don't get hooked. And the changes aren't going to stop you getting farmed by these people. It just means they are punished for playing one of the ways that is supposed to be allowed.
Are they going to start giving out point reductions for sandbagging, and other questionable survivor antics? How about they get reductions for dropping a pallet outside of heart beat?
Let people play the game their way. I for one do not think taking away points from survivors that are in it to win it for themselves is the right thing to do.
Go back to reddit and post your troll threads there.
Never been to reddit other then to read a couple things.
This is not a troll post either.
They have always said work together or alone. If I choose to work alone and farm points and hatch out, thats a legit strategy. Not a great one, and once people know thats what you do, then good luck ever getting dehooked.
But thats the nature of the game. Why do I have to play well with others or get point penalties?
I'd love an actual conversation on this , other then people being crabby about it.
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@Gay Myers (Luzi) said:
Bloodlust needs to go. It promotes bad killer plays and requires you to learn less. It's one of the reasons I stopped playing killers aside from killers FOV and flashlights white screen giving me migraines. I hated using BL and I would instantly lose it if I ever reached tier III, because it meant for that I did not play optimally.Yes, maps need adjusting still and I can prolly live with BL staying until then, but once maps get balanced, it needs to go.
Also when you're hooked, you're not doing anything. It makes perfect sense exhaustion cooldown would go down when you're hooked.
It doesn't make one bit of sense that a hook being rammed through your chest would allow you to calm down. I'm fine with the the exhaustion counting down however but for it to magically disappear when hooked , now thats BS.