Orvarihusklumpen
Orvarihusklumpen
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@Lixadonna said:
But yet the game is balanced around these %.
How exactly is it balanced around that? I don't think i have ever heard from anyone at BHVR saying in a Q and A or a dev stream that they balance for the top percentage of the playerbase so where are your sources?
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956128#Comment_3956128
Is this for all mmr or high mmr?
My guess is all
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High usage rate and probably high killrate is what got it nerfed is my guess
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Go-next prevention made entitled survivors stay in matches so now you don’t get a survivor who kills themselves on hook and giving the killer a 3v1 at the start. This made the killrates inflated. Skull Merchant is proof of this.
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@Mandy said:
Will say, these stats are nowhere near accurate (yes I checked the stats). I''m guessing they're even more inaccurate than they used to be due to a smaller sample size given that personal stats are now available…so don't all start to panic that kill rates have dropped, they really haven't.
If you have access to the stats. Can see those stats perchance?
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Hatch is the main culprit in this case. Most killers feel like the hatch is the ultimate cuck. I used to do this but it took too much time to do so and i was being a dick for no reason. Just hook the third survivor, proxy camp and that will be it. The fourth survivor either gets the hatch or they don't
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953985#Comment_3953985
And thats literally something I tell people to do regularly, so its like telling smokey the bear not to throw a match into bushes. My point was entirely about the player experience, something people discuss on here frequently. When you're in situations like his, they feel helpless as killer, which leads to people not wanting to feel helpless and pre-emptively stacking every advantage they can in their next matches. I'm basically telling you that this is what causes people to play "unfair."
100 % agree and it's a vicious cycle that repeats.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953174#Comment_3953174
I mean yeah, but thats like saying survivors who have issues need to do one of those as well, so I don't understand your point? Just being needlessly dismissive months later? I'm one of the first ones to tell people to take a break, that wasn't the point at all.
My point was that you shouldn't play the game if it stresses you out. He should do what Coté said years ago and play CIV or play something else.
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@ImWinston said:
- yes, the event is very killer sided, but it's just an event, it won't last long. and if you really don't appreciate it, you can play the "normal game". I only did the challenges and went back to the normal queue
Depends which killer you play and if you are going against a 4-man SWF. The reason i'm saying this is because in EU which is where i play it is nothing but sweats on both sides and the same 4 killers every time.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913065#Comment_3913065
Putting aside the streamer's personality/complaints/etc, the main thing I took away was how fast the gens got done, and how his comeback was entirely caused by overzealous plays on the survivor side. He was even content with a 2k when the snowball started. Balance discussions aside, I absolutely get the frustration aspect of what he's saying, especially knowing that a more meta perk selection (or killer) would have given him a better chance at a more meaningful match (win or lose.) His game sense was not poor, he was doing things like recognizing when gens would pop and was making decisions like hooking the one survivor when he knew the others were down and healing across the map, so I don't think his macro play is especially poor (aside from the limitations of clown and his perks ofc.)
Regarding the basekit combacks/protections, regardless of which one each of us thinks applies, I think the bigger point he was making is that there are a lot of issues on the killer side that are on the same level as BT was before it became basekit: Gen perks feel that necessary because of the speed of matches like this, and it feels as necessary at higher level as BT felt before it got made basekit. Thats part of the issue with the pandora's box that got opened with basekit mechanics/buffs like that and the timer ones: It validates a lot of whataboutism, and makes issues feel particularly ignored when not addressed in a similarly impactful way.
I couldn't even finish the video, but I made sure to watch the entire match to get why he felt the need to make the video, and his frustration is valid. He could absolutely let it not get to him, but I can't imagine this kind of game being rare when you main clown for that many hours, especially if you're willing to divert from his meta.
The thing is if he finds the game too frustrating to play then he only has 4 options imo . 1. Play a different killer preferably an S-tier killer. 2. Take a long break from the game. 3. Quit the game entirely. 4. Play survivor
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@Pulsar said:
Is this mf Arinad? Author of the billion-page Clown guide?
Also, what is your point? Not every Killer should be balanced to compete with the .01% of Survivors. Survivors have no base-kit comeback mechanics, they have base-kit protections. Call it what it is.
Some of us enjoy playing against difficult opponents and learning. Coming back better next time.
Fr this is the same guy that every time he is about to goes AFK, blames the survivors every time he loses and never once blames himself for playing bad
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@Pulsar said:
Doesn't seem like a good idea, especially since even High MMR 4-Man SWF's don't escape more than 50% of the time.
I rarely go against 4-man SWF's that just goofs around. Maybe it's different in the US but in EU it's mostly "comp" 4-man SWF's, that is to say they hang around in the comp community of DBD doing scrims, 1v1's and use all the meta perks.
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@Orthane said:
Like holy nothing but hyper tunneling and slugging with 3 slowdowns. Why? Does it just bring out the comp wannabes or something?
It's the same thing on the killer end.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940423#Comment_3940423
Exactly this tbh, Killers who've reached a higher MMR by using these strategies, will slowly adjust to an MMR where they're more able to compete without them, same for Survivors with the extreme hiding. Their MMR will all balance out.
Based
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I
@Green_Sliche said:
Give it few days tops.
Hype will quickly die and when people realize that he is a glorified mediocre killer they will stop playing him so often.
Doubt it, this is the biggest chapter in DBD history, this will be the norm for 2-3 months imo.
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@ImVeryDummm said:
Killer match queue time is ridiculously long because most of the Survivor players are playing Springtrap
Biggest chapter in DBD history with the biggest spike in the playerbase and we are supposed to act surprised by this? Everyone knew this would happen.
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Find weak link, Proxy camp to get that survivor out of the game as soon as possible, find another weak link to get that survivor out of the game and hope by the time endgame starts, you get the other 2 survivors.
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Dude got released 2 hours ago and people are already screaming for him to be nerfed = DBD in a nutshell
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939597#Comment_3939597
Even pop sucks. Pop got nerfed down to 20%. It was already 20% once before and it sucked, which was the whole reason it got buffed up to 30% in the first place.
And then surge is pretty much only useful on M1 killers and smaller scale maps.
Depends which killer you play. Both Pop and Pain Res got nerfed hard for M1 killers. Surge like you said is situational
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@Clinton said:
I just cannot get into this mode on either side. As killer, it's just insane gen rush with BNP/Styptics and map offerings.
As Survivor, it's killers who just camp and tunnel because they have garbage perks and can't stop the gens without some sort of slow down
I'm just gonna play for the reward and rift progress and not touch the mode once that's done
Chaos Shuffle brings out the worst from both sides due to no perks. Majority of my matches today was against Ghoul players just hardcore tunneling after an unhook.
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I'm assuming this post was made because of JcGlitchmaster making a video about this but he also did a follow-up to that video where the devs adressed it but not as a bug but that it's an intended feature of the game. https://youtu.be/jFTIsKrHvug?si=o1IOBTBLWEesVPcI
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@Twiggsy said:
They don't want to watch a Mori but want us to watch them teabag at the gate make it make sense
Right, get beat into submission lol
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926313#Comment_3926313
For the love of **** mate, SPACING please
Nobody enjoys losing in a multiplayer PVP game, that's just a fact.
If you keep trying to group everyone in your "facts" then it's by default false, case in point we Rulebreakers don't care if we lose as long as we lost in an interesting way. There's others who think this way as well (we're in a discord server with em). Journey vs destination, we pick the journey.
If you are a survivor main, i can see why you wouldn't mind that considering you don't play killer and the same could be said for solo queue players being stomped every single game.
Ohh look…more trying to group us... for the record, we play both ends and prefer the killer (don't need to rely on anyone else that way). The reason were playing survivor more currently? The new achievements (and technical 2 of us are also Vecna hunting). Got 1 killer achievement and that's jumping off cliffs.
What do you mean by dull exactly? Survivors and killers using the same perks? That's exactly what i meant, just like TCM and Friday the 13th did. Them stating what kinda game they are balancing the game around would give us a lot of insight into the devs minds and how they view their game but it would also make a huge potion leave the game no matter which side they are balancing for. Identity has a competitve scene and it is balanced around the "unfun" mechanics such as camping and tunneling instead of nerfing it and making it easier for the casual players to keep up.
Ok first: "Dull" as in "we know exactly what they're running, what they're going to do, same ol same ol and there's no surprises".
Second: We have not seen any official statements on "what kind of game" those are in regards to "competitive" or not. You may have some of a case with idv since it does have an official competitive scene but them not nerfing things doesn't mean they don't want to keep casuals (and if we remember correctly, the survivors in that have a thing to make camping less desirable by making the timer take longer)
Third: If saying what type of game the devs want it to be would, in your own words, make people leave...why should and would they?
Fourth:
Survivors and killers using the same perks? That's exactly what i meant, just like TCM and Friday the 13th did. Them stating what kinda game they are balancing the game around would give us a lot of insight into the devs minds and how they view their game but it would also make a huge potion leave the game no matter which side they are balancing for.
Hoooow exactly do these line up? Genuinely confused.
How exactly would they have removed looping.
Emphasis on stealth over running. More ways to hide or disappear like the smoke bombs or Vecna artifacts compared to say lithe and DH.
My point is that casual players do not want visible MMR because their reasoning for this is toxicity which is not true, the toxicity would not increase.
Took awhile to get to the point...
Your words from a previous post:
Toxicity is also something that people that are against visible MMR say this will bring out which is true but toxicity will always be in a multiplayer videogame especially in a competitive one like DBD.
Well...which is it? Our bets that it will increase. We all can argue how much, but it will.
The only thing that would happen is that those same players would use MMR as an excuse to be toxic and the veteran players want it because of how exactly the MMR works, people who say they are at high MMR when they clearly are not due to visible MMR and smurf accounts which is a thing in this community on both sides.
Well, we should have read more through but kinda hard against a wall of text
So your contradicting yourself with what we put in bold…
They could just give the players the option to have visible MMR, that way if players don't want to see their ranking go up and down, they'll have to option to disable it.
This wouldn't work as well as you think it would. What do you think...lets just say a vocal majority, of people here would ask when questioning others? We believe it would be something like "What's your MMR?"...and a hop and skip later we come full circle to the problem we repeatedly point out. Since it's optional: if you can get it and if you don't give a number, your dismissed. If you give an "unsatisfactory" number, your dismissed. If you lie about it, they call BULL and your dismissed (probably what happens now but moving on). If you can't get the number after hiding it: dismissed. Currently with it hidden, this can't happen.
Look, despite irking us, we'll level with you. It doesn't need shown, it adds more negatives than positives, and generally will be used as another way for people to be ****s to each other and this game and forums don't need that especially.
If you enjoy losing in a multiplayer game like this then you are a a casual player and don't have any say in any kind of balance discussion.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924870#Comment_3924870
Apologies for the delay, we've been busy.
the only way you can have fun in this game is to lower your MMR so you can have a fun time beating on new players.
Well, can say that's untrue, especially when fun is subjective. We're quite capable of having fun as killer or survivor in spite of what they run. Though we admit it's incredibly dull that we can predict ppl in the first minute, what happens in the trial makes or breaks the fun.
I never said that they have to cater to one side, i said they have to say which demographic they are balancing the game for, is it the casual side or the veteran side?
Your previous words imply that they need to pick a side and balance around what they pick.
That is true which is why the devs needs to make their minds up of how they view their game.
After all simply stating how they view it wouldn't change much. If you're pointing to the other games to try and reinforce that we think it kinda falls a little since we've never seen NetEase state if either of those was casual or party game (we've all played both and last we saw, Idv didn't explicitly balance around high end players)
Looping was a just an evolution in this game, it was inevitable that it would happen at some point.
You say that, yet the devs could have removed that and instead emphasized stealth. They chose to adapt and more incorporate looping.
Lastly, we've indulged the off topic enough as this has strayed far from mmr
Getting stomped by survivors using all meta perks for 4 hours because you picked a killer that isn't Nurse, Blight or Hillbilly is not fun period. Nobody enjoys losing in a multiplayer PVP game, that's just a fact. If you are a survivor main, i can see why you wouldn't mind that considering you don't play killer and the same could be said for solo queue players being stomped every single game. What do you mean by dull exactly? Survivors and killers using the same perks? That's exactly what i meant, just like TCM and Friday the 13th did. Them stating what kinda game they are balancing the game around would give us a lot of insight into the devs minds and how they view their game but it would also make a huge potion leave the game no matter which side they are balancing for. Identity has a competitve scene and it is balanced around the "unfun" mechanics such as camping and tunneling instead of nerfing it and making it easier for the casual players to keep up. How exactly would they have removed looping. Friday the 13th had looping and that was with a stamina bar. My point is that casual players do not want visible MMR because their reasoning for this is toxicity which is not true, the toxicity would not increase. The only thing that would happen is that those same players would use MMR as an excuse to be toxic and the veteran players want it because of how exactly the MMR works, people who say they are at high MMR when they clearly are not due to visible MMR and smurf accounts which is a thing in this community on both sides. They could just give the players the option to have visible MMR, that way if players don't want to see their ranking go up and down, they'll have to option to disable it.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
Pretty much majority of people are opting for speed killers. Why struggle with M1 killer v fast gen speeds? Harder tunneling gets hit, more people will be abandoning M1 killers as they slowly become relics of the past.
As long as I continue to get 3/4k regularly I intend to continue with Myers 😁 can't beat the tombstone.
Lockers
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Yes because why would you torture yourself playing M1 killers against lightning speed heals, all the meta perks like Dead Hard and DS being meta perks since they came into the game and maps that feel like the great wall of China?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924077#Comment_3924077
Honestly, we disagree on that. The devs don't need to cater to people of a specific mindset as long as it's fun for a majority of their customers, especially when if they cater to one the other is very likely to stop playing. We all can argue how well their doing that but the main point is that it's their game.
IMO putting people against each in a competitive PVP multplayer is competitive in nature whether or not the devs admit this or not is a different story altogether.
We'll hold our snarkiness on the wording of that to point out that the mentality of the players has an impact on how a game evolves. We've been here since Doc and saw for ourselves how it slowly (metaphorically speaking) it went from looping being a last line of defense to becoming the go too for many. The devs saw and adapted to how looping became more popular and a lot of those survivors who loved to loop were the competitive minded types and attracted more (yes we know this sounds judgemental but for once it's not). Now we got both types and another division of us v them with bhvr practically needing both groups currently.
The game is not fun at high level going against the same perks/items over and over again, the only way you can have fun in this game is to lower your MMR so you can have a fun time beating on new players.I never said that they have to cater to one side, i said they have to say which demographic they are balancing the game for, is it the casual side or the veteran side? The TCM devs immediately said in their first livestream what playerbase their game is for. NetEase, the company that makes Marvel Rivals and Identity V (Clone of DBD and actually balances the game around high level such as camping and tunneling) and is still one of the most played mobile games in China. Trapper, the mascot for this game denies looping by definition, he literally put down traps next to loops. Looping was a just an evolution in this game, it was inevitable that it would happen at some point.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923526#Comment_3923526
Not likely happening
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923529#Comment_3923529
Due to our definition of "competitive" (playing in a league/event/etc with some form of valuable stakes on the line, such as cash or other prizes) the three of us play casual.
Your assessment of people is mostly correct. We also see that more "competitive minded" people are desperate to see mmr more than your average person. Doesn't change the flaws that come with it though.
That is true which is why the devs needs to make their minds up of how they view their game. Do they see the game as a competitive game like a lot of people that play in comp tournaments do where they break every perk and add-ons into a science or do they view the game as a casual party game like Mario Kart that you play with you friends and just have fun and don't care whether you win or lose. IMO putting people against each in a competitive PVP multplayer is competitive in nature whether or not the devs admit this or not is a different story altogether. When TCM (another assymetrical game) came out for the first time, the devs themselves said in their first livestream that they didn't view the game as a competitive game but instead wanted it to be like game you just chilled with your friends but like i said before, a multiplayer PVP game is competitive in nature. When DBD first came out, looping as whole wasn't a thing and all the players back then were hiding instead.
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Another thing
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922632#Comment_3922632
- Yay one part helped…how bout the rest?
With the new Abandon feature, there is literally no way for a survivor to lose MMR unless they get tunneled out at the beginning of a match thereby making it damn near impossible to get to low MMR.
What does any of this have to do with "why add more ways to be toxic to ppl?". If anything its more an argument to use in point 1.
3. From what we recall they did not show any individual players MMR. If you can point to official stats saying otherwise we'll happily eat our words.
4. You really seem to be trying to push this random guy on us. At least you explained the relevance of why you added whatshisname but ultimately:
My own reasons why
This is what matters to us more than whosit. Gotta say that parts to us sound a bit like a conspiracy theory. We don't deny the MMR system is flawed in many ways (which is why we got soooooo many things to use for point 1) but we don't think its directly picking bad skill to face good skill at first. That said, wouldn't then this be more of a con showing it as it would have people's MMR mean nil while causing the above head aches?
I just wanna ask something, do you play this game competitively or do you play is casually like with your friends and stuff? Because what i have noticed when people bring up visible MMR is that the people that want visible MMR are usually very competitive minded while the people that don't want are more of the casual players.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922632#Comment_3922632
- Yay one part helped…how bout the rest?
With the new Abandon feature, there is literally no way for a survivor to lose MMR unless they get tunneled out at the beginning of a match thereby making it damn near impossible to get to low MMR.
What does any of this have to do with "why add more ways to be toxic to ppl?". If anything its more an argument to use in point 1.
3. From what we recall they did not show any individual players MMR. If you can point to official stats saying otherwise we'll happily eat our words.
4. You really seem to be trying to push this random guy on us. At least you explained the relevance of why you added whatshisname but ultimately:
My own reasons why
This is what matters to us more than whosit. Gotta say that parts to us sound a bit like a conspiracy theory. We don't deny the MMR system is flawed in many ways (which is why we got soooooo many things to use for point 1) but we don't think its directly picking bad skill to face good skill at first. That said, wouldn't then this be more of a con showing it as it would have people's MMR mean nil while causing the above head aches?
Watch the video i posted and then come back
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921146#Comment_3921146
We assume this is for us yes?
1.
my point is that we would have players with high MMR in these tournaments instead of completely random people that just start up a tournament on Twitch
This is literally the only thing you needed to say without adding all the unnecessary fluff. As we said before:
Do you mean "better players" in the comp scene? If so, MMR wouldn't work as we've pointed out prior that MMR does not quite equate to skill.
How did someone get to "high mmr"? Currently killers have a pretty easy way to get to "high mmr" via tunnel the weak link with stacked regressions while the only thing a survivor needs to do is get out the door, don't matter how to go up.
2. You didn't answer the question. "why add more ways to be toxic to ppl?" Just because people will always be people doesn't necessarily excuse adding more ways to do so, especially if the positive isn't worth it. Does the 1 or 1 & 1/2 pro outweigh the cons?
…and for the third bloody time, we don't give a F about whomever this Choy is, especially if your trying to invoke them with it having nothing to do with this conversation…
3. For ease of reading, we ask if you'd please use spacing/separating paragraphs/whatever the proper term was called. Its hard to dig through anything against a wall of text.
- Tunneling weak links in a team is going to be a thing of the past with the new Duty Of Care perk and new buffed Babysitter. 2. With the new Abandon feature, there is literally no way for a survivor to lose MMR unless they get tunneled out at the beginning of a match thereby making it damn near impossible to get to low MMR. 3. They literally showed the MMR numbers or atleast the highest and the lowest MMR on their latest stats update. 4.Choy literally explained the reasons why people would think adding visible MMR would increase Toxicity starting at 2:54. My own reasons why they hid it in the first place is because they know if they would show visible MMR people would know that it's flawed and possible by design, to push bad survivors up to good killers inflating the killrates. Choy is literally the only content creator in this DBD content scene that has a voice in this matter and has actually spoken up about this, that's why i am bringing him up.
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The devs will never touch the RE killers, that is their cashcow until the FNAF chapter get released.
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Choy's currency system would fix these problems.
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- The competitve scene as a whole in DBD is completely mixed in terms of which players gets allowed into which tournaments, some tournaments for instance you like Hexy's Best Of the Best 5 years that had no barrier for entry so you had Otz being matched up against scrubs in a bracket and then you have Tournaments like Wwispy1's for instance where there were no restrictions on either side and DBD content creators like Scott Jund was saying that it was decently balanced at the high level which anyone with half a brain would know especially when you could bring in a Ebony Mori and kill someone of 3rd hook negating a DS and also that whole tournament was based on hooks so killers was actually losing as the MMR system as it is currently is based on kills/escapes but yes my point is that we would have players with high MMR in these tournaments instead of completely random people that just start up a tournament on Twitch. 2. Like i said, Toxicity is always going to be in a PVP multiplayer game such as this. Choy, another content creator that shares my opinion made an exact video talking about the pros and cons of a visible MMR and has talked about visible MMR for years. BHVR Just Randomly Shadow Dropped MMR For The First Time! - Dead By Daylight The sad reality is that i do not think that BHVR would give us visible MMR just because of the fact they brought out their lawyers when people were asking for it through the support system and their reasoning for it was that it was a "trade secret" which is not true, dataminers have found out that it's based on the Glicko system, a system that is based on Chess and widely used in the majority of games that uses some form of skill based matchmaking system.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918811#Comment_3918811
I haven't seen almost anyone using this perk after the nerf. And the few I saw couldn't make the save by throwing the flashbang right in my corner. It's so easy to avoid now that there's no point in using it anymore. If the killer picks you up with his back turned, you don't have time to save, even with Background Player, which is not the same with the flashlight. So it wasn't a very used perk and was quite mediocre for the time invested, now there really is no reason to use it.
Thank god, i got PTSD when old Flashbang was in the game every time i picked up a survivor.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918953#Comment_3918953
Actually, its a pretty solid excuse since there's little point in adding more ways for the players to be ****s to each other. (And yes, it would increase people being nasty to each other, by how much everyone can only guess).
If you'll indulge a little experiment, can you list your pros and cons of showing vs not showing MMR for each?
Pros are as follows. We would stop getting people who say "you are just facing scrubs and you are not really at high MMR" when they have no grounds to say so because MMR is visible, it would stop the confusement between players who think their MMR ranking and their grade are the same, the competitive scene would get better cause you could see the mmr of these players instead of people just starting up a tournament with random people with 500 restrictions on 1 side etc etc. The big con i see here is that a lot of people find it stressful about the idea of seeing your MMR ingame whether it raises or lowers depending on wins and losses which is why they should add it as an option in the menu if you wanna see it or not. Toxicity is also something that people that are against visible MMR say this will bring out which is true but toxicity will always be in a multiplayer videogame especially in a competitive one like DBD. The only difference here is that they will now use MMR as an excuse to be toxic to other players.
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@bathwatergrill said:
Oh yeyh a new game mode! Oh wait, it's tunneling and camping again, just like in blood moon, just like in chaos shuffle before blood moon, just like normal game mode has been for months. Interesting game.
Killers don't have to worry about anti-tunnel perks and survivors have toolboxes, medkits and the killer has no form of gen regression perks. Let the chaos commence.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918724#Comment_3918724
We're going round is circle but on the dip
DbD experienced an unusual summer in 2021. You can't just quote the image from that period without looking at their overall history. Three of its best months are in the summer of 2021, July, August, and June are the first, third, and fifth best months in DbDs history. However the 2nd, 4th, and 5th through I think 13th best months are all post SBMM.
Or look at this way: there have been 10 months post SBMM where DbD cracked 40k players, it happened 7 times before that.
And given you are talking about licenses, these best months are because of the licenses DbD was getting through that period. You can't credit the licenses for the games success at some points and ignore it at others for why there was a player drop off (people coming off the anniversary high / Resident Evil release)
If SBMM was a problem, then the numbers for late 2021/early 2022 should be worse than late 2020/early 2021, but the post SBMM numbers are generally better or roughly the same.
I see more red than green tbh. June 2021 was the biggest spike in the playerbase and the Wesker Chapter then it has started to flunctuate up and down. Licensed chapters is the carrot for both new player and veteran players of the game. SBMM on the other hand was by all stretches of the imagion a bad mechanic that a lot of players including content creators for this game didn't want in this game, Licensed chapters will draw those players back.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918388#Comment_3918388
- Again, don't know OR care
2. Now, we're going to explain this again as clearly as we can.
When people see MMR, theres a very good number of people who will base people's "validity" (Defined: "how much credibility one's argument holds") on MMR. This is despite the fact that multiple things factor into how they got there. Such examples include the killer tunneling their way up despite their own lack of skill in any other area or a survivor hiding all game doing nothing helpful but manages to keep getting out the door. Both of those increase MMR.Examples from the other end is the chill killer getting SWF squads back to back with gen builds or the expert survivor who basically caried the team but was left for dead at the end. Those lower MMR.
These examples and similar show that MMR does not equate to skill or validity in arguments. People can be both knowledgeable and skillful while being in low MMR. The problem then becomes that people would dismiss others thoughts based on their MMR and that is wrong for multiple reasons shown if MMR were visible.
People are already being nasty about anything in this game adding something that a lot of players have asked for is not going to increase or decrease it in any way shape or form. People are always going to be toxic about anything no matter what in a multplayer game, that is a just a fact people are going to accept at some point. It's not a good excuse not to put it into the game, same with communication for solo queue players. The only reason i can see why BHVR would never implement visible (which they have clearly stated that they won't with legal actions) MMR is because it would show the public how bad the MMR really is.
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@WolfyWood said:
I know there's like several parts of the game on fire right now but why is no one talking about this map being unplayable?
There is also a nasty 3-gen setup at main building
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918400#Comment_3918400
It's a assymetrical multiplayer game with licenses and they have no competition. It's literally a monopoly at this point. That's the biggest reason they been able to retain their audience because if there were no licensed chapter, this game would have died a long time ago.This is a common argument. Do people really put thousands of hours into a game because it has a certain license? Lots of games are licensed properties, it doesn't mean they succeed, much yet get 9 years.
i don't think anyone in the DBD community were positive about the SBMM test's when they were first introduced much less when they dropped MMR into the game, Otz, one of the biggest content creators for this game made 3 videos about this when they first dropped SBMM. Scott jund has made numerous videos about it, most recently in a video titled Top Ten Worst Decisions in Dead by Daylight History where SBMM was at number 1, Dowsey left the game partially due to SBMM and Tatariu as well.Now you're just changing arguments. DbD's player's count is healthy, there's no evidence that the introduction of SBMM had any noticeable impact on that. Those are just what the numbers indicate, whether certain people like it or not is a different issue.
- DBD has multiple licenses, not just one like TCM, Killer Clown From Other Space, Predator Hunting Grounds or Evil Dead. You are not going to beat a game like DBD with only one license. That is a fact. My argument is that every time they release a licensed chapter the number grows, that is fact. Look up steam charts when they released SBMM, the number significantly took a dip. the old numbers had DBD in the 50's, nowadays it's in the 30's, now granted this is only on pc.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918089#Comment_3918089
New content is critical to the game, its a live service game after all, and a big license can draw lots of players, but there's nothing about SBMM that seems to have affected the numbers. DbD got a jump in March 2020 into the 30k average player count and since then they've been between 30 and 40k since. You have a few outlier months in 2021 spurred by Resident Evil, and January 2024 where they dip slightly below, but looking at the data:
1: There is no evidence the game is in trouble, player counts are solid
2: There is no evidence SBMM had any noticeable positive or negative impact on player counts.
- It's a assymetrical multiplayer game with licenses and they have no competition. It's literally a monopoly at this point. That's the biggest reason they been able to retain their audience because if there were no licensed chapter, this game would have died a long time ago. 2. i don't think anyone in the DBD community were positive about the SBMM test's when they were first introduced much less when they dropped MMR into the game, Otz, one of the biggest content creators for this game made 3 videos about this when they first dropped SBMM. Scott jund has made numerous videos about it, most recently in a video titled Top Ten Worst Decisions in Dead by Daylight History where SBMM was at number 1, Dowsey left the game partially due to SBMM and Tatariu as well.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917991#Comment_3917991
- We dont know who that is, nor do we care. None of the lawyer stuff has anything to do with people disregarding others based on mmr.
Like i said before, we are not disregarding them, they are just going to accept the fact that their view of balance at high level might not be correct since they are at low level
See…this is the kind of thing we were talking about.
1: He's a content creator for DBD.
2. Actually, it would make people have to improve instead of telling them it's ok to suck and that we will tone it down until you no longer suck.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917449#Comment_3917449
1800 mmr is the top 10 percent lol That said him being new still applies.
And yeah we should see all killers like we used to.If BHVR released stats today then Ghoul would probably be in the 70's right now.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917979#Comment_3917979
It's not a sustainable business model especially in assymetrical multiplayerThe game is approaching its 9th anniversary. You're saying something that has been sustainable far longer than most video is somehow unsustainable.
The more BHVR tries to balance this game, the more people leave.Yeah the player count looks absolutely fine…anyway back to earth, back to realityYour image seems to be highlighting December, sure let's go off that, it tends to be a down month.
2024: 31.3k
2023: 31.2k
2022: 32.6k
2021: 44.6k
2020: 35.6k
2019: 23.1k
2018: 19.7k
2017: 13.6k
2016: 17.0k
That's a pretty good growth program through its first 5 years with a spike and then level off after the Covid boom.
And the 2024 December player drop is coming off three growth months for DBD, November/October/September saw pretty sizable player growth from the prior year. All data makes DbD player numbers look to be in a very healthy position, that's the reality.
Licenses makes people come back to game if there were no licensed content in this game and the game would have died a long time ago. A huge chunk of the playerbase left when SBMM was implemented in the game.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917461#Comment_3917461
- That doesn't change the fact that they were still in low mmr and would be disregarded. We can talk about what should or shouldn't be another time, what we want to talk about right now is why a person in low mmr should not be disregarded just because they are low on the mmr totem since there are a multitude of factors currently contributing to how you rise or fall.
- Should the devs show mmr it comes with head aches that are not here currently. It would cause people to disregard any "low mmr" player, be used as a "my mmr is so high I must be right" excuse, people would be enticed into playing into gaining mmr more (or feel pressured to depending on the person) than trying to have fun or even really enjoying themselves. Things of that nature. Meanwhile, it's currently hidden and the only real problem is the nagging curiosity of where a person is on the so called ladder.
- Choy literally made a whole video about this breaking down why MMR should be visible but it's not going to happen because BHVR recently called in their lawyers to protect their MMR system because it's their "intellectual property" which is false since it was stolen from a chess system called the Glicko system. 2. Like i said before, we are not disregarding them, they are just going to accept the fact that their view of balance at high level might not be correct since they are at low level, this can be applied to IRL situations as well.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917447#Comment_3917447
So would you want to balance the game for? Casual players or the veterans because if you balance it for the casuals, the veterans suffer and vice versaWell, both.
So what we call balance I frequently think of as game design, but I'll use the term balance to mean both.
It's a false dichotomy to presume that its one or the other. You look at the players who play a few times a week, the ones who play everyday, the ones who are new, the ones who have put in 10,000 hours, you look at console, you look at PC.
You then try and balance the game for as many people as you can, understanding that it is inevitable that some people will be left out. Balancing games is no easy task, and balancing an asymmetrical is even harder, but if you focus on just a single group you likely have a dead game. You have to evaluate the impact of the balance issue along with the amount of players it affects.
Basically, you don't want a game element to break the game for any of your groups. Penti and MFT are good examples of this.
A lot of my friends who played this game for years quit this game a long time ago due to BHVR's balance decisions the last year, SBMM one of the biggest reasons.Lots of people quit the game all the time or go through burn out periods, but BHVR's overall player count looks to be in a very good position.
Well obviously but BHVR has made it clear these last 2-3 years with all the basekit buffs they have given the survivors that they favor 1 side and literally forcing killers to play in a specific way by nerfing certain playstyles i;e Anti-camp mechanic, Shoulder The Burden, basekit BT and the upcoming changes to slugging. New players are not going to stay in DBD once they see how bad the balance is and how "unfun" certain strategies are. they are going to play for a few hours and then leave. It's not a sustainable business model especially in assymetrical multiplayer game that doesn't have that big of an audience and considering that the devs have tried to balance this game for 3-4 years now ever since SBMM was introduced but still having core issues but instead of fixing those issues they put out band-aid fixes in form of perks. It is a party game at his heart and that's what it started out as and was the intention and majority of people see it as that. Make it fun, let killers have their busted #########, let survivors have their busted #########, Release OP perks on both sides and the numbers will grow, the players that previously left will come back. The more BHVR tries to balance this game, the more people leave. The game isn't enjoyable for newcomer, they keep balancing the game around newcomers and then when balance changes comes for them to (hopefully make them stay) but it's never enough because nothing is fun anymore. The devs are partially at fault, look at every single update they release and you both sides of the commmunity just hating each other. Each update survivors hate killers more and more and vice versa. Pentimento was bad for solo queue survivors,not against teams (not just 4-man SWF's by the way) and it was killer dependant. MFT was bad for the simple fact that you were messing with movement speed, a core component of the game. The latter had more of an impact across the board unless you were an A or S-tier killer. Yeah the player count looks absolutely fine…anyway back to earth, back to reality
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@Elan said:
As we know from latest patches killrate is now very low, less than 61 % which doesnt really suits the theme of the game. Here are possible buffs to every killer to make them more lethal and threatening. Keep in my mind that playerbase keep getting a lot of new players that wont stay with such a weak killers in current state and if the game should survive we need to balance the game.
Base changes:
- cooldown after successfull hit cooldown down to 2,2s
- speed boost from hit decreased to 1s
- time to break pallet decrease to 1s
- time to break gen decrease to 1s
- time to complete gens increase to 120s
- bloodlust is gained when chase starts
- memento mori base kit
- exhaustion perks last 2s (sprint burst, lithe, balanced landing…)
- exhaustions now last for 120/100/80s instead of 60/50/40s and are not reset when hooked
- remove hook sabotage
- toolboxes now increase speed instead of giving increased repair charges - 1 %, 2%, 3 % increased repair speed upon toolbox charges are depleted
- Medkits now dissapear when depleted - medkit can heal you once, self heal takes 50s
- Increase heal time from 16s to 25s
Trapper - starts with all traps, trap downs trapped survivor, trap injures survivor on disarm at base, when survivor is trapped, trapper gets 10 % haste for 30s
Wraith - increase the speed duration after uncloaking, increase movement speed while cloacked from 6 to 7m/s, bell can now be heard mapwide at base
Hillbilly - Increased overdrive duration by 50 %, chainsaw, decrease time to reach overdrive duration by 50 %, while overdrive Billy destroyes pallets upon being stunned and break pallets 50 % faster
Nurse - removes tokes, ability can be used after fatique, increase blinks to 3, increase lunge of the blink attack, nurse base speed increases to 4,4
Shape - tier 3 duration increases from 60 to 120s, shape can now kill healthy or injured survivors base without draining his power
Hag - base movement speed 4,6, her traps cannot be wiped anymore, increase the lunge from teleport and teleport speed, survivors triggering traps will suffer -20 % hindred for 20s
Doctor - interrupt status increase to 5s, blast no longer has a cooldown, survivors with lv 3 maddness cannot perform any interaction such as vault or unhook, doctor illusions will now chase and attack survivors spotted in 12m range from them.
Huntress - increase the hatchet speed to 80m/s, increase maximum hatchets to 10, increase movement speed when aiming to 4,4
Bubba - increase duration of charge to 5s, Bubba now continues swiping after breaking pallet, tantrum will now emit small area blast that will injure any survivor within 16m range
Freddy - survivors in dream world suffer from exposed, decrease time it takes to fall asleep to 30s, pallet damage will now put survivor into dying state instead of injuring them, once all 4 survivors are asleep, they cannot wake up for 60s, Freddy vaults windows 50 % faster while chasing sleeping survivor
Pig - ambush lasts 5s, ambush can break pallets, RBT always need 4 searches to be removed, doing a generator removes 20s from RBT, Pig crouches at 4,6m/s
Clown - direct bottles always cause exposed, increase the penalty of movement speed to 20, increase bottles to 8, haste from bottles increase to 15 % and 15s per bottle.
Spirit - decrease yamaoka recharge to 5s and increase yamaoka duration to 15s, removes audiable directional sound
Legion - feral frenzy speed is 7m/s, +1m/s per each hit, 4th slash puts a survivor into dying state, increase the speed of vault to 0,4s
Plague - now starts with 3 fountains corrupted, always see aura of vomitting survivors, each time a survivor is fully infected Plague will get corrupt purge, increase corrupt purge velocity
Ghostface - increase speed while in stealth mode to 6m/s, mark lasts 120s, upon marking a survivor ghostface will receive a 20 % haste for 30s, injuring survivors while in stealthmode cause deepwound and broken status effect for 150s
Demogorgon - now resists cooldown after breaking pallets, increase the speed and distance of dash, portals are now preset at gens and demogorgon can place 5 aditional portals, while travelling demogorgon can see auras of gens determinated by the progress and all survivor auras
Oni - power automatically recharges after 30s without collecting orbs, 50 % less orbs needed to recharge power, increase the duration of power to 100s, removes power drain from downing survivors, while in power oni can destroy pallets by dashing through them and continuing demon dash
Deathslinger - shots further than 10m inflict exposed, increase movement speed to 4,6, decrease reload to 0,5s, decrease cooldown after shot to 0,7s, survivors are reeled 50 % faster
Pyramid head - increase punishment range and make it wider, the attack keeps doing an area of damage for 10s after attack is performed, punishment causes torment to hit survivor, trails now last for 300s after being set and no longer has limitation to proximity
Blight - increase number of tokens to 7, last token will put survivor into dying state, each consecutive rush is increased in 5 % speed and 5 % duration
Twins - Victor now puts survivor into dying state and then the power goes on 10s cooldown, after charlotte wakes up she has undetectable status for 60s and haste of 10 % for 60s, Victor can now break pallets and destroy gens, plus see auras, increase Victor speed to 7m/s
Trickster - 4 knives needed to injure, 4 knives needed to down a survivor, main event takes still 8 knives but can be activated whenever player wants and increases by 1s per each hit blade.
Nemesis - first tentacle strike injures as well as infects, increase number of zombies to 4, decrease number of suitcase to 2
Cenobite - chains now always injure survivor or cause deepwound or injured survivor, increase amount of chains to 5
Artist - crows no longer swarm but injure instead, coming in contact with crow also cause injure, crows cannot be avoid by hiding in locker
Sadako - teleport now cause 2 stacks of condemned, 2 stacks are removed when inserting tapes, demanifested sadako is now invisible completely for survivors, manifested onryo is invisible for 2s after manifestation
Dredge - now moves at 4,6 when remnant is set, survivors in nightfall suffer from exposed, increase teleport speed to 20m/s, survivors in nightfall suffer from - 10 % hindred, nightfall now triggers every third minute of nonnightfall and lasts for 120s
Wesker - increase bounds to 3, increase hindred to -15 %, decrease vault to 0,5s, fully infected survivors suffer from exposed
Knight - increase speed of guards to 4,4 and 4,6, knight no longer lowers the chase time when close, removes flag haste and endurance.
Skull merchant - remove killer pls, thx
Singularity - speed while overclocked increase to 10 % haste, overclocked lasts 20s upon successfull teleport, emp will disable slipstream on survivor for 30s rather than removing it, slipstream is no longer removed upon being hooked
Xenomorph - cooldown after succesfull tail attack decreased to 2s, xenomorph now has 99 % of power when picking up survivor, decrease recharge time of power to 12s
Chucky - power cooldown decreased to 8s, hide ho mode duration increased to 30s,
Unknown - Blast now injures upon contact instead of weakend, increase amount of hallucinations that can spawn to 8
Vecna - all spells have cooldown of 5s except for flight that has cooldown of 2s, magical items are destroyed instead of disabled when in contact with orb, Skulls always fly low to the ground, hand lasts for 8s
Dracula - decrease shift to 1s, increase teleport range to 90m, decrease teleport cooldown to 5s, hellfire cooldown decrease to 2s, wolf speed upon collecting orbs increase to 5,2m/s, pounces can be done manually and redirected
Houndmaster - survivors in dog grab suffer from exposed, increase dog speed to 80m/s, increase dog search circle to 10-32m
Kaneki - Increase amount of leaps to 3, 4 while enraged, shortened the post leap cooldown to 0,1s, pallets that are vaulted by kaneki are instantly broken, increase amount of enraged mode duration from 40 to 120s
Isn't 60 % is what the devs have said in the past that is what they want killer be at? 2K at average and sometimes a 3k.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
No, they won't, and there are many reasons, good and bad.
If it was shown, people would use MMR scores to be nasty to each other, and lobby dodging would be absolutely rampant. It would be an absolute mess.
They stopped showing prestige and grade in the pregame lobby for those reasons (and they barely tell us anything), anyone who things they're going to show us MMR is deluded.
People would be really upset when they see how loose/ineffective it is, but the outcry would change nothing. They can't tighten SBMM to a meaningful degree without causing a queue time apocalypse. We've seen it. There's simply nothing to be gained from it other than knowing in numerical terms how badly SBMM works.
I mean I'm also curious, but I think we all suspect the answer, and most of us suspect it doesn't really matter much anyway. And we're probably right. This game isn't just imbalanced, it's imbalance-able. Too many variables, too much RNG, too many inconsistencies.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917037#Comment_3917037
The opinions of the people at low MMR matter because they comprise the majority of the player base. Just how much of a majority is unclear (their number is 90%, but we don't know who/how they're counting), but there's little doubt it is the solid majority.
And when you're running a business, that matters. You cater to the people who give you the most money. Whether we like it or not, basing your game balancing around the opinion of the elite few would be a cataclysmically bad idea. From a business standpoint, the opinions of 1000 weekend casuals is vastly more important than those of a relative few god-tier players.
Whether we like it or not, the 10K hour, 2000+ MMR players aren't the one keeping the lights on at BHVR, the casuals are. And if the game isn't friendly to them and they all stop playing, so does everyone.
People are already being nasty to each other as is so i don't buy that as a reason why they can't show us our MMR, it's just an escuse from BHVR not to show it because if they did, alot of people would see how bad it is. But how exactly, i am talking about a system where you can only see your own MMR, not the other survivors in your lobby. Lobby dodging is still a thing and has been a thing for years in this game and sure these issues would be exacerbated if they shown our MMR but once again only because of how it would expose how bad the MMR system really is. Prestige and grades removed to prevent lobby dodging, that is correct. I am 100 % agree with this. It's kinda crazy that the SBMM matchmaking system has alienated so many players from the game. Majority of the community didn't want SBMM but BHVR added it in anyway, I was one of the few people that actually wanted SBMM when it first was introduced because i thought it would help balance the game more but then i've realized the more balance they bring to the game is sucking the fun out of the game. I had firsthand experience with that, queue times back when their was MMR test back in the day was abysmal, there were at minimum 5-6 queues and every match was a sweatfest. I agree with this as well but my question is who do BHVR want to balance for? The veteran or the casuals because you can't balance for both and yeah at the end of the day BHVR is a company and i think a lot of us on here forget that part.
