Nun_So_Vile
Nun_So_Vile
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- Nun_So_Vile
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Comments
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
Hey, you filthy dirty fellow pig mains, took a little vacation from playing for a little while due to a busy life. How we dong and how we feeling about this change? Removing the Box auras from Amanda really is a disappointment as lore-wise it’s their own game; how can Amanda not know the only out to living or dying? lol
But, I understand; it’s a blatantly obvious hit to the players who follow a trap survivor around to ensure a free kill and the pig players who don’t use that strategy have to suffer for it. I don’t know why they put the timer to 3 mins, if Amanda had her way it’d be reduced to 1 second. 😭 But I digress, I’m thankful that her Ambush and Crouch are a bit better, and that we get awarded more BP (thanks I suppose? Kinda random but ok) for putting a Trap on survivors and Dash hits. The trade offs are really difficult to ignore, I mean.. why an extra 30secs? It’s just a random gimmick to nerf pig.
Passive slowdown? Not really, as survivors already got the trap off moderately quickly, and now the extended time doesn’t give survivors the lore-wise urgency to remove the iconic trap and just finish gens then look around.
Just the pros of this change without the cons would’ve sufficed considering she’s not even close to the top of the killer tier list even with this change considering all other dash killers do it much better. Blinding her from her own set up game is just redundant, but I guess I can try to make sense of it: She’s in the entity’s realm and isn’t the one setting up the traps and game herself, but then I see killers like Plague who can see her fountains and even survivors can see the boxes, but not I?… hweh?!🤨
Anyway, I feel Amanda’s going slowly in the right direction, but she’s forever burdened with the “nerf pig” gimmick, unfortunately, so she cannot gain something without losing something ridiculous in return.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O32P4EEYV8SS/img-8462.jpeg
Also Welcome Back!
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Why should I play Pig after these "buffs" go through when Skull Merchant does pretty much everything but better and has the advantage of chase power, bloated kit, and can play a menacing slowdown game? Oh yeah, and I can just about guarantee getting a W with her 70% kill rate.
And we're over here having to negotiate for one or the other as if Pig wasn't already needing all the help she can get with her ~2% overall pickrate? I just have this image of her being Oliver Twist and having to say "Please sir, I want some more."
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
Hey, you filthy dirty fellow pig mains, took a little vacation from playing for a little while due to a busy life. How we dong and how we feeling about this change? Removing the Box auras from Amanda really is a disappointment as lore-wise it’s their own game; how can Amanda not know the only out to living or dying? lol
But, I understand; it’s a blatantly obvious hit to the players who follow a trap survivor around to ensure a free kill and the pig players who don’t use that strategy have to suffer for it. I don’t know why they put the timer to 3 mins, if Amanda had her way it’d be reduced to 1 second. 😭 But I digress, I’m thankful that her Ambush and Crouch are a bit better, and that we get awarded more BP (thanks I suppose? Kinda random but ok) for putting a Trap on survivors and Dash hits. The trade offs are really difficult to ignore, I mean.. why an extra 30secs? It’s just a random gimmick to nerf pig.
Passive slowdown? Not really, as survivors already got the trap off moderately quickly, and now the extended time doesn’t give survivors the lore-wise urgency to remove the iconic trap and just finish gens then look around.
Just the pros of this change without the cons would’ve sufficed considering she’s not even close to the top of the killer tier list even with this change considering all other dash killers do it much better. Blinding her from her own set up game is just redundant, but I guess I can try to make sense of it: She’s in the entity’s realm and isn’t the one setting up the traps and game herself, but then I see killers like Plague who can see her fountains and even survivors can see the boxes, but not I?… hweh?!🤨
Anyway, I feel Amanda’s going slowly in the right direction, but she’s forever burdened with the “nerf pig” gimmick, unfortunately, so she cannot gain something without losing something ridiculous in return.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O32P4EEYV8SS/img-8462.jpeg
You're right it makes little sense. They want to give Huntress 10 hatchets and a speed winder on her arm, but Pig gets caught in the meme again? Even after they said with such confidence, "We are seriously buffing the Pig you guys. Believe us." All we can do now is hope they come to their senses.
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I've been summoned. What's going on? Did they release Amanda's real buffs yet?
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Killer: Pig
Surv: Pig but she's now crouched and facing the gen and you're approaching from a distance
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Spend time with your family
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Insert your own caption.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664058#Comment_3664058
Hahahaha, Fermented Corn all around xD
Lmao. That's me after a night of drinks on $2 Tuesdays. 😆😵.
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We have done what we can to answer her lady's call. Our messaging was on point, consistent, and has reached whose ears it was intended for. The lasting ripples in the sea caused by our unified push are still unknown unknowns, but be certain that every one of us should hold our heads high for what we have accomplished together. Be proud that we got the conversation started and that same conversation now is happening at the highest level where it needs to be.
Also, @UndeddJester said drinks were on them after all the dust settled. 😁
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Map offerings
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@UndeddJester said:
Is anyone other than me sat with a stressed knot in the stomach waiting for the end of the PTB? >🐽<
Entity, watch over Amanda throughout her journey. Bless her devs with a steady hand, keen vision, and a passion for seeing our Piggy get the buffs she so desperately needs. Bless her devs with focus and compassion for her RBTs... with wisdom and dedication.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3663555#Comment_3663555
You are not alone my friend. The PTB feedback section is closed and now I'm beginning to feel nervous until the end of the PTB and the live. I don't mind waiting for the live so they have time to maybe implement our suggestions in some form but it doesn't make it any easier.
And what is to be, must be
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Killers: *Running 2 to 3 aura perks every game*
Surv: *Puts on Distortion because they are tired of constantly being found so quickly in the match and (probably) tunneled out*
Killers: Stop that
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661916#Comment_3661916
Oh thanks edited it now with his name. Good luck hopefully you can get one soon. I had money saved up over time for my xbox series S and ps5. Hopefully doesn't take as long for you.
Haha, good enough i'm sure 😉
Thanks, friend. Which one do you play more your Series S or PS5? Honestly kind of been thinking of an Xbox just for a few reasons.
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Simply put, people feel FOMO is dirty and cheap tactic. There are many reasons it is seen as that, and one of the most common reasons I see mentioned is taking advantage of people's need for instant gratification and lack of self-control. Similar to how some people see marketing online sports betting and online casino gambling as dirty and taking advantage of people's addiction.
Just another one of the many things that turns me off about modern gaming.
Luckily, you have the option to avoid it if you don't like it...
Unless of course you are a parent and then you know how much of a trap it is for your youngins, and what that means for your wallet.
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Go to 1 million. Do it.
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Bless you, whoever upvoted that last post. Got me to my next tier of upvotes. >:)
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661569#Comment_3661569
Yeah pretty much this Microsoft and Sony and maybe Nintendo only allow a certain amount of updates per year I think which obviously might still be managable for them but as you said the verify process is probably a nightmare along with having to pay for it as well. An experimental sort of version would be nice. I too am on Xbox and not to mention I would really like to be able to play K&M on console.
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661490#Comment_3661490
Oh yes I'd like that too, and I see the good it would do. And Windows or Epic cannot participate either, just Steam players. But I understand the reasons why they aren't looking to add it.
First off it ain't free, Sony and Microsoft both charge for patches, and I imagine Nintendo does as well.
Next all three of them verify all patches separately, which can take anywhere from three days to a week or more roughly. This is the exact reason Trickster's original release was delayed a week for instance. They could probably update the game four times a day on Steam if they wished most likely.
Plus each and every Fog Whisperer is on Steam, all of them content creators. They showcase these PTB's for several days, with their content helping to bridge the gap until the next chapter is out. Cannot even apply to that program from any of the other platforms.
This doesn't absolve them however imo. Both Minecraft and DayZ offer "experimental" versions of their games in the Microsoft store. Dunno about the PlayStations or others as I'm in Xbox. But both of those games have a separate tool to test things out on, perhaps DBD can do something similar?
Sure, processes, bureaucracy, and red tape all equally suck, but that's why delegate to someone else who fits that job duty or build a team that collaborates to handle those challenges. I'm sure they could afford to invest a little into console PTBs with just the money from Feng Cosmetics alone. Feng can usher in the console PTB era.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661874#Comment_3661874
Oh no do you think you will be able to get another one soon? On the bright side this is an oppertunity to upgrade to next gen or current gen whatever it's called.
Also on a side note I found this piece of fan art I like and thought I would share it.
Words of advice, write a short credit to the artist on the post. Mods can be a stickler for credit on fanart.
I'll probably just get an SSD ordered for it soon. I looked at ps5 but they are still pretty expensive even used.
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Speaking of which my PS4 Pro HDD bit the dust the other day. So, guess who is without their console in the meantime...😥😫
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661490#Comment_3661490
Oh yes I'd like that too, and I see the good it would do. And Windows or Epic cannot participate either, just Steam players. But I understand the reasons why they aren't looking to add it.
First off it ain't free, Sony and Microsoft both charge for patches, and I imagine Nintendo does as well.
Next all three of them verify all patches separately, which can take anywhere from three days to a week or more roughly. This is the exact reason Trickster's original release was delayed a week for instance. They could probably update the game four times a day on Steam if they wished most likely.
Plus each and every Fog Whisperer is on Steam, all of them content creators. They showcase these PTB's for several days, with their content helping to bridge the gap until the next chapter is out. Cannot even apply to that program from any of the other platforms.
This doesn't absolve them however imo. Both Minecraft and DayZ offer "experimental" versions of their games in the Microsoft store. Dunno about the PlayStations or others as I'm in Xbox. But both of those games have a separate tool to test things out on, perhaps DBD can do something similar?
Bro if they added an experimental mode on PS4 I'd do something crazy. Like, play Pig only on a racing wheel.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660824#Comment_3660824
Yeah I've seen a few give their views in a couple of vids, but it really matters what she's going to feel like with my controller, and if they alter any of the proposed changes from the PTB. Players mousing her around isn't the same for us consolers! 😁
Another reason among the list of 10000 others is why console players need a PTB. Feels like a broken record stuck on repeat at this point.
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Leaving this here in case anyone wants to watch it. More content on her changes by other Pig mains.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I will say one thing, I'm super happy to see so many Amanda Panda enthusiasts still around, and quite passionate about her too! 🐷🐽
Right? It's amazing to see!
Hey, @JPLongstreet , good to see you. What took you so long to get here? Lol.
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@UndeddJester said:
Now that stress of that is over, can post something a little more fun.
I never really formalised my application to the Pig Pen... I did have a plan for that day but its still in the works, and all of this forced my hand early xD
So instead, if anyone is bored/wants a laugh, I wanted to share a game I had today as one of the last I will see of our lady in her current form... I was using a quirky little build I made literally to just get obsession kills for challenges. I literally just threw on the cheapest and most plentiful brown add-ons I had cause I'm tight. 🤣
It was actually kinda decent vs. our true one enemy... pallets... I've included my thought processes in the description with time stamps 😅
https://youtu.be/Gb3EZW4rIq0?si=UvgrvJR0_TDGJJCk
Are my credentials satisfactory for an aspiring Pig player? Do be brutal, I've already spotted several things I'm kicking myself for 🤣
Ps: Also hello box aura in my splash... I do hope to see you again... 🥺
Me after seeing Steve playing so cautiously after he lost the first chase: "You was poppin' all that good ######### a second ago then you got kicked in yo' chest."
I like what I see
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I wake up and thank the devs every day we don't have EGChat on console. I've seen killers and teammates who are ready to bait you into a suspension or even escalate to a ban for inflammatory language. Maybe back 12 years ago on 360/ps3, but MS and Sony been coming down hard with their reporting system on the newest consoles.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659868#Comment_3659868
Agreed this is a major moment for the player base in general as like you said I can't remember either when they personally confirmed that they were sending it on to the team. This has proven that it is better to propose a solution to the problem then to just complain about it.
Great job @UndeddJester and @Nun_So_Vile!
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659828#Comment_3659828
We really made a break through. I cant remember the last time, a dev / community manager stepped in to confirm that the feedback was taken into consideration. We all did a great job there.
Big thanks especially to @UndeddJester and @Nun_So_Vile for their summary - post. You both deserve a big BOOP from our lady herself. 🐽
@UndeddJester said:
Now that stress of that is over, can post something a little more fun.
I never really formalised my application to the Pig Pen... I did have a plan for that day but its still in the works, and all of this forced my hand early xD
So instead, if anyone is bored/wants a laugh, I wanted to share a game I had today as one of the last I will see of our lady in her current form... I was using a quirky little build I made literally to just get obsession kills for challenges. I literally just threw on the cheapest and most plentiful brown add-ons I had cause I'm tight. 🤣
It was actually kinda decent vs. our true one enemy... pallets... I've included my thought processes in the description with time stamps 😅
https://youtu.be/Gb3EZW4rIq0?si=UvgrvJR0_TDGJJCk
Are my credentials satisfactory for an aspiring Pig player? Do be brutal, I've already spotted several things I'm kicking myself for 🤣
Ps: Also hello box aura in my splash... I do hope to see you again... 🥺
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Had this conversation in a Discord today.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3SG1XON6Q4SJ/angry-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7D7BPN68V9UD/angry-2.jpg
My last comment that I did not screenshot was that we should end this discussion before I end up saying something I regret.
I don't know if he didn't realize that I am one of the Pig mains behind that post when he called US scummy (my nickname is not Absolugrndzer0, briefly changed it to get the screenshots) but it made be very angry as you can see by the reacts. Especially since the worst thing a Pig player could do is exploiting screams to guarantee at least 3 head pops. I will never do this even for testing purposes, but I'm confident I could consistently pull it off with Video Tape, Crate of Gears then Hex: Face the Darkness, Sloppy Butcher, Franklin's Demise, and Lethal Pursuer. Soon as the game starts, beeline for the nearest survivor, injure them, the go camp the totem. Nobody is going to be able to heal the survivor that is injured, even if they had a medkit, it's unlikely it will have a full heal left by the time they manage to pick it up, especially with Sloppy. So at best THAT survivor can get their trap off, do a generator... the others? Not happening. But this could easily be fixed by making screams not be as terrible as they currently are to those with traps.
Check your messages. Sounds like you took the high road in your response.
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LETS GO!!!!
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Did they ever replace Jay yet? I don't know how much that would affect the timeline of their collection plans, but when Smite did its collab with Slipknot, I vaguely remember it included the newest members too.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658226#Comment_3658226
Ship it! Nice work!
Approve of all additions and grammatical corrections ^^
Edit: Unless anyone has anything they'd want to add, does anyone want to volunteer to do the honours? :P
Also just because I have to cleanse myself of this awful pun... SAWciety of Swine. I know it's pure pain in text form... but I had to put it somewhere to get it out of my brain xD
...We live.. in a SAWciety...🤣. Thanks, I hate it. Now it'll be stuck in my head.
I gotta stop looking at this or i'll want to edit more,. Great work everyone. I'm ready to spread the word! Where do we start???
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Edit below.
Her Chase
First of all, BHVR, we are a humble group of Pig players who want to thank you for turning attention to our Killer. We would like to go on the record as saying we believe your intent for the Pig is coming from the correct place. Improving her chase is a welcome improvement many of us have been eagerly waiting for, and we certainly approve of these changes to her crouch speed, crouch movement speed, and ambush changes. These changes have made noticeable improvements in her performance at a variety of loops, like the car loop tile on the Garden of Joy map, going around shorter loops around tiles, going around rubble & objects into straightaways, and expanding on the number of tiles she can catch survivors on in general.
However, largely what this buff does not address is that she is plagued by the same issues as before, where using any pre-dropping, any semi-decent pallet, and holding W to run away as she attempts to ambush, will still beat her. These same tiles and strategies lead to her buffs becoming negligible in action because crouching makes her lose distance since the survivor simply drops the pallet and runs away to gain more distance, ergo she is forced out of her killer ability. This makes her ambush and crouch buffs minimized and unreliable to use across a variety of similar situations. This is apparent on even her strongest maps for stealth/ambushing like Midwich. We do not think these changes will bring about the intended outcome they provide a solution for in their current state.
We would appreciate more buffs in this department. We know you cannot make her unreasonably strong, so we reasonably encourage you to take into close consideration the slowdown brought on by her Reverse Bear Traps (RBTs). Promoting unfun playstyles is the last thing we ask for, but it is apparent that these initial number buffs are just not enough to bring Pig past how she performs currently overall.
Why RBTs need toning down
We acknowledge that buffs to her chase will require a tradeoff, as the strength of her RBTs should absolutely correlate to the strength of her chase. Throughout a number of updates, there has been a rise in the number of strong scream perks, which has facilitated a less engaging and unfun playstyle for the Pig. Chasing off Pig boxes and forcing pops was always possible, however, the time efficiency of doing so was quite bad due to the need to force a survivor to let go, and the timer is halted while in a chase. With the addition of perks like Hex: Face the Darkness and Ultimate Weapon, interrupting boxes has become both easier and more viable to force head pops, with little counterplay for survivors outside of Calm Spirit. We do understand that something needs to be done about this playstyle.
Why the current nerfs aren't the solution
The current nerfs are:
- The Pig can no longer see the auras of Jigsaw Boxes
- Reverse Bear Traps now have a base timer of 3 minutes (was 2.5 minutes)
These nerfs do not solve the problems players are having with Pig.
The extra 30s make forcing a head pop kill longer, more tedious, and less profitable, but ultimately it doesn't prevent a Pig from doing it. It is just as much throwing the game as before; it just means the obnoxious Jigsaw box playstyles require a more direct commitment to do. It does not prevent killer from tunneling the first surv they see with a trap on their head. There have been massive discussions about how this hurts regular Pig play, which have typically gotten quite heated so we won't be dredging that up again, but these nerfs affect every Pig regardless of play style, even if the overall time denied survivors from searching boxes is the same. Survivors have counterplay if they work as a team and delay gen pops in line with when survivors get trapped; just allowing 15 seconds for the survivor to get a head start on boxes is enough to prevent a head pop. This +30s change undeniably hurts the overall pressure provided by her Jigsaw boxes, and working around and accounting for that pressure was always what drew people to the Pig, similar to how setting up as Trapper and having it pay off down the road was immensely satisfying, even if the Killer isn't especially strong.
The denial of auras is more an annoyance than anything, it means that the highest level of Pig play will result in a need to memorize Pig box spawns, which is just an unnecessary irritation and makes Pig less accessible to newer players because of the random spawning algorithm. On indoor maps, because they are small maps you can run into surv doing the box cause of how they spawn, and tunnel them that way just playing the game...It doesn't address the problematic play style at all, as the Pig's who want to tunnel or force head pops will run Hex: Face the Darkness, Ultimate weapon, and maybe even aura perks to simply chase down survivors they want to pop anyway. Again this is hurting the regular Pig play style more than the problem Pig play style.
Our Proposed Solution
Instead of the nerfs proposed, we aim to target the issues Survivors are facing directly: -
- An active Bear Trap can no longer trigger while the survivor is still searching Jigsaw Boxes.
- And either: -
- Screams do not interrupt survivors working on Jigsaw boxes. <- (Direct scream nerf for all scenarios)
- Letting go of a Jigsaw box will regress progress at a rate of 1 c/s <- (Better future-proofing for other types of interrupt, but screams still can cause a pop if on the last box and the timer is spent... maybe rare enough to not matter?)
These changes maintain the threat of a head trap and keeps the macro game of the Pig intact, where interrupting a survivor at select moments ensures sub-optimal choices from the survivors overall and buys pressure and time.
In the same breath, these changes eliminate the 2 most hated parts of the Pig's traps.
- That hopeless situation where it's impossible to get a head trap off even if you find the final box.
- Being constantly reset on progress by a Pig forcing you to scream.
We want people to enjoy playing against the Pig, and our hope is that these changes keep the tenseness of the head trap, while also eliminating the nastier play styles. A Pig trying to head pop you, can't just use a scream to interrupt your progress. The Pig now has to actively push you off a box, which will activate the chase timer pause. We envision moments where people who don't know about the head trap being unable to pop while searching will be holding their breath hoping they can get their trap off in time, while those players who are aware will be holding their breath, hoping the Pig doesn't find them in that moment (similar to how being the last survivor committing to open the gate is a rush hoping the Killer doesn't happen to find you at that moment).
With this, we feel the Pig will be nicer to play, maintain her fear factor for survivors without being obnoxious, and be more engaging and fun for everyone.
Thanks for taking the time to read!
Signed the Society of Swine
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@UndeddJester said:
First draft (I'm a lowly 950 hr player, would feel more happy for someone with a little more clout than me to post) 😁🤘
Your local society of Pig main's proposal
Her Chase
First of all BHVR we want to thankyou for turning attention to our Killer, and want to go on record as saying we do believe your intent for the Pig is coming from the correct place. Improving her chase is very welcome, and we certainly approve of these changes to her crouch speed, crouch movement speed, and ambush distance. These changes improve her performance at loops, and expands the number of tiles she can catch survivors on, however largely she is plagued by the same issues as before where using any semi-decent pallet and holding W away as she attempts to ambush will still beat her. We would appreciate more buffs in this department, but we'd be more than happy to accept her buffs as is, as she definitely feels nicer to play, and ultimately her chase can't be too strong, because of the slowdown brought on by her RBTs.
Why RBTs need toning down
We acknowledge with buffs to her chase will require a trade off, as the strength of her RBTs should absolutely correlate to the strength of her chase. Over the course of a number of updates there has been a rise in the number of strong scream perks, which has facilitated a less engaging and unfun playstyle for the Pig. Chasing off Pig boxes and forcing pops was always possible, however the time efficiency of doing so was quite bad due to the need to force a survivor to let go, and the timer being halted while in chase. With the addition of perks like Hex: Face the Darkness and Ultimate Weapon, interrupting boxes has become both easier and more viable to force head pops, with little counter play for survivors outside of Calm Spirit. We do understand that something needs to be done about this playstyle.
Why the current nerfs aren't the solution
The current nerfs are: -
- The Pig can no longer see the auras of Jigsaw Boxes
- Reverse Bear Traps now have a base timer of 3 minutes (was 2.5 minutes)
These nerfs do not solve the problems players are having with Pig.
The extra 30s makes forcing a head pop kill longer and more tedious and less profitable, but ultimately it doesn't prevent a Pig from doing it. It is just as much throwing the game as before; it just means the obnoxious Jigsaw box playstyles require a more direct commitment to do. There have been massive discussions about how this hurts regular Pig play, which have typically gotten quite heated so we won't be dredging that up again, but these nerfs affect every Pig regardless of play style, even if the overall time denied survivors from searching boxes is the same. Survivors have counterplay if they work as a team and delay gen pops in line with when survivors get trapped; just allowing 15 seconds for the survivor to get a head start on boxes is enough to prevent a head pop. This +30s change undeniably hurts the overall pressure provided by her Jigsaw boxes, and working around and accounting for that pressure was always what drew people to the Pig, similar to how setting up as Trapper and have it pay off down the road was immensely satisfying, even if the Killer isn't especially strong.
The denial of aura's is more an annoyance more than anything, it means that the highest level of Pig play will result in a need to memorise Pig box spawns, which is just an unnecessary irritation and makes Pig less accessible to newer players. It also doesn't address the problematic play style at all, as the Pig's who want to force head pops will run Hex: Face the Darkness, Ultimate weapon, and maybe even aura perks to simply chase down survivors they want to pop anyway. Again this is hurting the regular Pig play style more than the problem Pig play style.
Our Proposed Solution
Instead of the nerfs proposed, we aim to target the issues Survivors are facing directly: -
- An active Bear Trap can no longer trigger while the survivor is still searching Jigsaw Boxes.
- And either: -
- Screams do not interrupt survivors working on Jigsaw boxes. <- (Direct scream nerf for all scenarios)
- Letting go of a Jigsaw box will regress progress at a rate of 1 c/s <- (Better future proofing for other types of interrupt, but screams still can cause a pop if on the last box and the timer is spent... maybe rare enough to not matter?)
These changes maintain the threat of a head trap and keeps the macro game of the Pig intact, where interrupting a survivor at select moments ensures sub-optimal choices from the survivors overall and buys pressure and time.
In the same breath these changes eliminate the 2 most hated parts of the Pig's traps.
- That hopeless situation where it's impossible to get a head trap off even if you find the final box.
- Being constantly reset on progress by a Pig forcing you to scream.
We want people to enjoy playing against the Pig, and our hope is that these changes keep the tenseness of the head trap, while also eliminating the nastier play styles. A Pig trying to head pop you, can't just use a scream to interrupt your progress. The Pig now has to actively push you off a box, which will activate the chase timer pause. We envision moments where people who don't know about the head trap being unable to pop while searching will be holding their breath hoping they can get their trap off in time, while those players who are aware will be holding their breath, hoping the Pig doesn't find them in that moment (similar to how being the last survivor committing to open the gate is a rush hoping the Kilelr doesn't happen to find you at that moment).
With this, we feel the Pig will be nicer to play, maintain her fear factor for survivors without being obnoxious, and be more engaging and fun for everyone.
Thanks for taking the time to read!
Signed the Society of Swine
@radiantHero23 @Nun_So_Vile @Vanishlord @UndeddJester
<I don't wanna speak for you! Let me know and I'll add your name!>
This is wonderful! Off to a great start. Thank you for taking the time to write this @UndeddJester. I was just going to write some suggested edits to the side [the teacher in me 🤪], but mind would you mind if I just make edits to what you wrote and post it again for review?
I can send @AbsolutGrndZer0 a ping so they know to sign!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGolXOXOTmQ@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657633#Comment_3657633
But hang on i can predrop the pallet vs wesker and huntress and blight does that make them bad killers?
Any other killer with actual designed chase power can get a hit at strong tiles and against shift +w. It's so laughably bad how this is a buff... That being said, I think a fairer point is that there are specific layouts for connected tiles that even the strongest killers will struggle with regardless, if a surv knows the pathing. No, that doesn't make them bad killers per se, but the better ones will be able to overcome the obstacle easier than others with their kit.
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Posting here just for another perspective on PTB buffs in action. First chase ~24 seconds in... man oh man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ2fwHgJLXAJust absolutely shocking...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGolXOXOTmQ -
@Vanishlord said:
@radiantHero23 @Nun_So_Vile @JPLongstreet @UndeddJester @AbsolutGrndZer0
Since we are disscussing solutions and alternitives to this nerf, we need to agree on one and all try promote it we also need to incorporate survivors into it.
So far Jester and Hero's ideas removing the screams sounds like the way to go as from my disscussion the screams is one of the big problem survivors have.
The only thing I would add on is if we do end up with the extra 30 seconds the last bit of this post would help a bit.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2V4L6EJXS3P9/image.png
(ignore my bad highlighting)
This for me is kind of a worst case scenerio as it still isn't ideal but it is better then the PTB state.
I do think just nerfing scream builds for pig is enough. Lets keep brainstorming people!🐷
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657778#Comment_3657778
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Personally I like the radiantHero's idea, simply because for anyone not in the know, which will be most of SoloQ, I can see it being really tense just making it to final box and not being sure if they'll make the timer. Anyone whonis in the know will be praying the Pig doesn't turn up... similar to how my chest pounds as last survivor opening the gate... which sounds cool.
The scream not interrupting nerf is a necessary evil to halt the main complaint, even though I don't like some screams interrupting actions and some not... Cage's perk always makes me naturally let go cause I forget I can keep hold.
Tbh, I'd rather take both my and radiants nerfs than the 30s timer.... At least we would retain our pressure gameplay while also hitting the more brain dead strategies. If we REALLY have to go to war to prevent the 30s nerf, I'd push for a regressing progression box and impossible to pop head trap while searching. If box auras come back as well, I would be signing on the line for them to take this pair of nerfs in their place.
I agree, having a consistent solution in our message would be beneficial. I think Radiant's would be the more pragmatic one to compromise with. Love all the solutions, but I can see that one being something easy to work with that could be quickly implemented and not need too much extra work to get it right. @UndeddJester Spot on!
Amanda has waited years for some good buffs to her kit overall and the devs must do this right...
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Great collection and you won't be asked to name 3 songs when wearing the t-shirt.
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@UndeddJester said:
Far be it from me to misrepresent the collective will of the Glorious Snoot Society:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657275#Comment_3657275
What do we reckon to this suggestion?
I always liked @radiantHero23s suggestion:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654229#Comment_3654229
Mechanically no arguments at all and nothing but support, the only thing that irks me about it is purely that it betrays a little of the idea of the theme of what's going on.
Mostly why would the timer stop mid search? Why does a scream not interrupt? (I don't like how we have screams that interrupt and screams that don't... the mechanic feels inconsistent to me).
How do we collectively feel about this alternative? If the search box degrades, screams doesn't cause a problem, survivors getting downed or chase stops progress on the timer, so having to commit to get a survivor to let go seems reasonable to me.
It seems almost as good, without the theme taking a hit. Thoughts? Anything I'm overlooking?
I've only had time to skim through briefly, so i'll have to come back with any further suggestions. From the surface, I like what I'm reading. There have been similar good suggestions between you, Hero, Joni, and around the forums that all center around the same point of screams not resetting progress using different approaches.
I think it's fair in theory. I like @radiantHero23's ideas too. Specifically speaking to survs not dying while searching...There have been times I've been on that box like ..." Man, that timer is getting close It's about to kill me this sucks. wish it wasn't". But I always thought of that as my misplays for not getting the box off soon enough, similar to a contestant who almost got out of the trap, but time ran out (Which happens in literally every Saw movie xD). I guess it depends on how much importance you put on the pause while searching on that one, but honestly, it's a great suggested change to have on the table.
Just to add my 1/2 cent to the mix for what it's worth, maybe somewhere JSB (Jigsaw Box) can save the surv's current progress for a very brief time (1 to maybe 1.5seconds max), and then it'll degrade by a certain amount that is determined by a simple regression algorithm like you suggested in the topic posted. If pig is chasing them then it'd go away outside that 1 to 1.5 second window, but also in that brief 1 to 1.5-second window they'd still have their progress if she didn't commit to chase them off the box for long enough, or if they scream.
With keeping her thematic in mind, I could see either way giving a little more wiggle room for survs to get a trap off without giving away too much in return, but also not flat out causing them the same level of grief as getting interrupted by screaming and dying due to it does.
I had another thought as I was typing this, which is does DBD have a system designed to tell the difference between interrupts that are caused by the player's action (i.e. surv lets go on their own for x reason) and one caused as a reaction to a Killer's perk like Infectious or UW. I could be seeing it wrong or overthinking, but if those two different events are handled the same way, then you'd just expect JSBs working a slightly different way in general by providing regression, and survs just leaving the box will cause regression instead of resetting progress.
Still, I for one like the idea.
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@Vanishlord said:
@radiantHero23 @Nun_So_Vile @UndeddJester @JPLongstreet @AbsolutGrndZer0 @Majin151 @Blueberry @totallynotamegmain
Here is the link to my post anyone else who has made a post or will make one please post it here so we can all coment on it. Also sorry if I forgot to @ somebody.
Thank you for posting this and getting more discussion going! Posted my reply...back to screaming into the void.
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@Nebula said:
I can't get over the fact that there's so many people in this thread that are trying to justify nerfs to a weak killer that they don't even play when the Pig mains with thousands of hours are saying that this is directly a nerf to her power. Holy DbD.
I'm sayin! @woundcowboy speaking their truths and we have yet to be on the same page on a change as much as this one. Much love to you, Cowboy. They were dolling out some powerful buffs this patch, and Pig gets an overall nerf? She already doesn't have much going for her other and you'll never hear any big content creator call her a strong killer or even mentioned in the same breath as actual strong killers. Even when they said it was a buff? For whom? Not those safe & sorry ambush numbers, cause those don't even adequately address her main issues. In the current iteration, it feels more of a band-aid fix and (yet again) pigeonholing pig players into playstyles her power isn't fully designed for.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655644#Comment_3655644
gonna say this because it's getting really annoying to keep seeing it...
PIG DOES NOT HAVE A CHASE POWER!
it's a surprise attack that has a few applications during chase. but it's not a chase power. you are not supposed to use it in chase, we just found a way where it works to mindgame some loops, if the survivor doesn't leave the loop running the opposite direction when you start doing it.
you can use it just as much as you can use trapper's power during a chase. does trapper have a chase power now?
is "chase power" such a broad and therefore useless term that it loses any meaning?
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656051#Comment_3656051
With how people keep coming up with new definitions of anything, we're going to say yeah it's lost meaning.
Agreed. Same with the words "healthy change". Relegated to being only simple buzzwords molded to fit any narrative.
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Here's the link to the feedback on killers for PTB. Posting it below. There's been some great feedback there already from the community. Let them hear our collective pig squeals!
@dance said:
This PTB brings tweaks and minor changes to several Killers: The Blight, The Clown, The Demogorgon, The Doctor, The Hag, The Huntress and The Pig.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KU89RMMO7DJA/killer-updates.png
We would love to hear your feedback how it feels these adjustments feel.
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My son, ask for thyself another kingdom. For that which I leave is too small for thee...Great album 🤤.
I might break down and get 1 skin.
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BTW in case anyone had any doubt. This is 1000% a nerf to RBTs. The buffs aren't even close to being enough to warrant such a bold and controversial change.
Unless Amanda starts dashing over pallets, doing backflips, summersaults, instant breaking with dash, or baseball slides under them then we can talk about RBT changes like aura removal and increased timer.
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Bob: "Nah dawg, night shift isn't that bad"
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654550#Comment_3654550
Im already very active friend, recorded a ton of matches. Currently uploading. My feedback will be lenghty. I would gladly see you all having a look and commenting on it when its ready.
Outstanding field reporting. I'll follow-up when I have some free time.
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A moment of silence for those who came before
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@radiantHero23 @AbsolutGrndZer0 @UndeddJester @JPLongstreet @Majin151 @Vanishlord @Blueberry @totallynotamegmain
Pardon the urgency my fine fellow pigs, but I think we can all agree when I say the recent proposed changes to her RBTS is how you say...bullshit. Some might say even too heavy-handed in response to the problem it intends to solve.
Not to undercut the importance of the actual buffs she's receiving, but the changes to RBT go too far against her whole shtick and we can see right through it all no matter how they might try and confuse and muddle the issue. Any of you with access to the PTB that plan on playing, please report on your experiences with these changes and their impact overall for those us without PTB access. Thank you for your time.
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@Alice_pbg said:
guys. I'm playing a saw character, ######### is this bs that the traps never kill anyone? putting people on traps and they becoming unalive is the saw thing.
they already are on a perfectly fine spot where a head pops maybe every 100 traps? there's no need to increase the timer at all.
what's next? sadako doesn't come out of tvs anymore? freddy has no dream world? the traps being deadly IS the flavour of the character, you don't just make it basicaly impossible for no reason.
and the ambush is a pretty bad chase power with some niche uses in it. it's just rarely worth the use, specially if you don't know the geometry well.
ghostface still has the best stealth, not debatable. SHE IS BRIGHT ######### RED! and crouching/standing up has unique sounds that alert survivors paying attention.
so the ambush can use more buffs. including removing the invisible walls on maps so she can climb #########. that was fun.
and to finish... the existence of rule set #2, the gears... all show that playing in a style where the traps are more deadly was always intended by the devs. so can we stop pretending it's not a thing? and that it wasn't nerfed?
Thank you. Nemesis needs a rocket launcher too.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
I will definitely be playing her extensively on the PTB, and I definitely will be using my "Perkless Pig" build (full end game perks, that around 80% of the time never come into play) to really test out how it goes... but I am thinking I am going to be getting nothing but 4 escapes despite having a pretty good 4K record on Live servers with the build right now.
I hope you can still play Perkless Pig without issues. I know that build has a special place for you. I remain cautiously optimistic they won't completely butcher RBT and make the buffs a minor point.