NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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@bLoodSLoth97 said:
Reminds me of a weird twist on The Spirit. I like it. Are you able to move while your mirage is out? If so this would make for some pretty interesting combinations. For example, the add-on that injures the survivor could be followed up by an attack from the real Wendigo. Or, you could chase two survivors at once. Interesting idea, I like it.
You are absolutely able to move with the mirage out. It would be kinda useless if you couldn't.
And yes all of those scenario's are exactly what I was going for.
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Oh. Well in that case if your interested I've already made a bunch of other Killer ideas you could check out.
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@bLoodSLoth97 said:
This is interesting. I will watch your career with great interest.
Are you Mitzifallen?
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Why would you ever bother looking at the statues then? Just leave them on the side of the screen without ever looking directly at it and his power becomes irrelevant.
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@elvangulley said:
ill never touch him again anyway but i dont know its fair but part of me loves king camper bubba because it pisses survivors off.
I mean you can still kinda do that with this. It's just not quite as free.
I'm sure the bonus chase potential would more than make up for that however.
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@elvangulley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1351168#Comment_1351168
Dont get me wrong im all for a buff taking him to his bbq unlock was awful.
Well then how's THIS buff?
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@elvangulley said:
No thanks players need to learn not to feed campers not get a reward for unsafe unhooks
I mean true, but Leatherface still needs a buff in the chase either way and if I want to make it a big one then something has to give.
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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1349827#Comment_1349827
Like i said, i like the Idea, but Can you explain little better how it would look?
You move a bit faster when charging the chainsaw and suddenly move fast when releasing it instead of having a build up period.
The cooldown makes it much harder to use for camping since you can't hold it charged up like you can now.
If you hit a wall you just stop entirely like billy instead of going into a tantrum.
Rampage duration is refreshed on chainsaw hit. M1 hits also refresh the cooldown.
Otherwise it's basically the same as now. Still breaks pallets, still can use the saw to down groups. Only now the power has anti-loop potential moreso than just camping potential.
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@Maperson said:
That Is nice Idea man i like it, but knowing the devs they will prob make something no one expected, i don't think he really needs rework, just some buffs
To be fair, I'm using the term "rework" losely here.
The things changing is:
- How often the chainsaw can be used (no cooldown -> variable cooldown max 8 seconds)
- Acceleration (Takes the entire rampage to reach top speed -> Instantly set to 125% MS)
- Maximum rampage time (3 seconds always -> 3 seconds extended by chainsaw hits)
- He now can cancel the rampage
- Charge movement speed is increased to match billies
- No tantrum
That's pretty much it.
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If you are altruistic then it's a good perk. If you are not altruistic then you shouldn't be running perks that synergize with altruism.
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Also for the OP's question.
Whispers and Fixated.
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DO NOT DISABLE STUFF FOR SWF.
If you need to do so, then you haven't implemented the right buff in the first place. If you are giving Solo's Kindred then you should also be giving SWF Kindred. The reason why this doesn't negate basekit Kindred as a solution is because for SWF the information is mostly redundant, thus the buff will effect Solo's disproportionately.
However, the issue isn't and never was about the actual act of queing up together, and is about the voice chat SWF players use. Voice chat being something that can be achieved in Solo Que by sending the other players a discord link in the lobby.
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@RebelRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347767#Comment_1347767
still it feels like too many abilities for 1 perk to have bbq only has 2 abilities the bloodpoints which you stack to and the aura reading which is passive also i said upon safe unhook not on unhook that means you could actually pair it with babysitter if you wanted a bit longer visual on the killer
This perk has 2 abilities and BBQ has 1. Blood point gain isn't an ability.
Anyways, the effects I've given WGLF here aren't particularly strong, which is why it's fine to have both. Whereas BBQ's effect is extremely powerful, and thus the perk doesn't need a 2nd effect.
In particular:
The aura reading is nice, however it's at best as valuable as bond and it needs to be stacked first. It has merit due to serving a slightly different function than other ally tracking perks, but still is weaker than them on it's own.
Having other Survivors heal you faster is just a more specialized version of Leader, which has the same effect but at 25%, however leader is conditionless and effects a bunch of other actions as well.
The perk only starts to be a genuinely good perk through quantity of effects rather than quality.
Same thing would need to apply even if I DID go through with the seeing the Killer thing. Even babysitter needed to put on additional effects and STILL isn't a very good perk.
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@PigNRun said:
I agree with most of your score events. The one thing I am iffy about is chases giving Survival instead of Boldness. Chases are the only reliable source of Boldness, since totems can be cleansed by other Survivors and the Killer may not have a "Survivor interaction" power. Stuns also give Boldness, but they dont happen every game, and certainly not enough to offset the massive drop on Boldness gain. An individual score event just for escaping chases along with the current chase score event would be better.
Edit:
Objective might need to be tweaked a bit as well. The disparity from doing gens and being altruistic is massive. Same with gate opening and repairing (even though the latter being "more dangerous").
This is what I am already suggesting (with the boldness thing).
Currently there are 2 different score events that happen at the end of a chase:
- Chased - Gain boldness points depending on the length of a chase (up to a max of 8000)
- Escaped - Gain 400 boldness points if and only if you successfully won the chase
Chased points are granted regardless of the outcome, but give more points from longer chases.
Thus chased points reward prolonging chases as much as possible, which is obviously something that could only be a boldness score event and I'm not suggesting otherwise.
However, escaped points are a flat bonus for ending a chase without being hit. This has nothing to do with how well you stalled the Killer, just if you were able to get out of there. While this does still work for boldness, a strong case for Survival could be made.
Also they recently added boldness score events for fast vaulting, which offsets losing the 400 escaping BP.
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@RebelRose said:
I do agree that there needs to be more survival score events but its really easy to max out altruism all you have to do is unhook and heal like 3 people bringing well make it helps it go faster and I like the aura reading of wglf but healing speed is not a good idea it could buff swf alot cause it would stack with botanty spine chill and resilence as well as medkits especially if it was 40% that basically makes the survivor healing you have well make it speed without needing to unhook first
maybe give it a dark sense affect on getting a safe hook rescue as just the direct passive to make it more akin to bbq instead
Dark sense passive on unhook is already a perk, so it would be redundant, and also doesn't fit with the playstyle the perk is pushing for.
Also if people are running 3-4 healing perks just to stack them for super fast heals, then it BETTER be extremely fast. Also the way action speed is calculated means speed increases have diminishing returns anyways.
Plus, it's not like you are getting the effect for free. Getting 4 WGLF stacks frequently takes the entire first half of the game to accomplish.
Not to mention, being healed the normal way a bit faster isn't exactly the most toxic of SWF interactions, and the aura reading aspect means it's about as valuable for solo's as well.
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@C3Tooth said:
@Divine_Confetti
There are too few types of reward, so they have to mixup around between the strength of reward and requirement.And even after that, too few action in game to make perks various.Now, break totem give you will heal you(Inner strength), heal other give you will heal you (Solidarity). In the future? Safe hook give you a health stage? Do gen will heal you? Open gates will heal you? Eventually the idea will depleted.
The game totally need more overal mechanic, like the Shape with Obsession and Hag with Totem. Sadly, perks should requires you do something to earn it and be powerful, rather than giving for free.
@NuclearBurrito Lucky break, I dont have the character but I read the perk to know how it work, you lose 18sec on the perk while being healed. And it likely force you to do things (find survivor, find Gen to seek another survivor ect) to save the perk time.
Another point that Killer walks pass an Iron will, he doesnt know survivor is there. But he knows if walks pass a Lucky break because of moaning. Iron will is too stealthy, Lucky break keep you doing stuff.
After all, for me, all perks should requires you to do something to make it work (if the usage is unlimited and no downside). It can be as small as I mentioned about Bond.
I don't see why that would need to apply universally to all perks. Most of the perks that don't have requirements are also balanced, since their rewards are so small they don't require a prerequisite.
They are also important since they provide a useful benchmark for working out the value of that type of effect.
Obviously some perks need buffs and others need nerfs (mostly buffs). But the specific perks you listed are among the more balanced ones, even if the 2nd list had some weaker perks.
Aftercare is mostly fine
Spine Chill is fine
Inner strength is almost meta
Fixated doesn't make much sense and is more inline with the low impact passive perks
Premonition is mostly fine but could use numbers buffs
Lucky break is fundamentally useless in a way that has nothing to do with what this thread is about.
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"Spirited Resistance – After being bitten, you’ve gotten used to fighting off a virus in your body. After being unhooked, recovering from the dying state or cleansing a totem, gain the haste status effect for 40/45/50 seconds (yes Peak Physique buffs this so at max rank with PP its 65 seconds)."
What magnitude of haste?
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@GingerBeard said:
On the killer side it would be I'm All Ears.
On the survivor side it would be Aftercare, which is one of my favorite perks in the game. Once you get it activated on all other survivors, the amount of information you can gather (and send) by seeing what your teammates are doing/not doing at all times is invaluable. The fact that those survivors can also see your aura is also extremely important, an aspect of the perk that I feel is often overlooked.
Many months ago I had a game versus Spirit with only three of us left after the last gen was repaired. One survivor was on hook, who the Spirit was camping with NOED and Insidious. I was hiding behind some tires next to the hook, while the Spirit was standing close by hiding between some walls. The hooked survivor was in struggle and almost out of time, but I waited because I could see the other survivor running around looking for the totem, who knew I was poised to get the save thanks to the perk. I saw them start to cleanse, and right before it popped, I ran out and got the unhook. I then got hit and chased for about two minutes, but managed to mind game the killer and get out the door.
The value you get from aftercare is why I think blood pact is going to be a good perk.
It's like aftercare in that it shares information to AND from the user. However while it has the downside of only being usable on the Obsession, it has the major upside of having no prerequisites.
The way this works is such that the perk can act both as a self healing perk, and has an altruism perk, AND as a raw information perk all at the same time.
The speed boost means you can get riskier heals, and the shared vision means you and the obsession know where to go for heals, AND when it first procs it means the other player is in a chase telling you where the Killer is. All of that right from the start of the match.
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Also, inner strength also gives an ability in that not only is the heal faster, but it's also in a locker where you are much less likely to be found.
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I would like to point out that at least in some of these cases the reward isn't what you are saying it is.
In particular:
Aftercare - While it does have the advantage of being unlimited range compared to bond. The more important effect it has is that it reveals your aura to other Survivors. Something that only otherwise exists with the perks Better Together and Blood Pact.
Lucky Break - Can be used over several injures. The rule is that to cumulative time spent injured cannot exceed 180 seconds or the perks effect will end for the rest of the trial. So if you get injured and the perk activates, and then you get healed 60 seconds later. Then next time you are injured you will have your blood trails hidden for up to 120 seconds, since the first 60 seconds were already used up the first time you were injured.
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@HP150 said:
They already tried balanced around a fully-comm'd SWF. It was called Death Garden. That game is as dead as it's name implies. As sad as it is, balancing around the minority just doesn't work in asymmetrical games. I used to believe in balancing the game around the top level of play, but no, this is a glorified party game. The sooner you accept this, all of the randomness of who you will face with what perks and where, the sooner you might start enjoying the game again. Or maybe you won't, maybe the game isn't for you and you'll move on. That's fine.
But in any case, it was pretty bad before but the number of full comm'd Delta Force-level SWF that are actually tryharding isn't even worth mentioning anymore, let alone balancing an entire game around it.
PS: "I'm done with this game, goodbye" messages get posted every single day by both sides. It's not really an indication of the overall game health.
And death garden still has shorter que times than DBD does right now despite the devs abandoning it.
And I've had a lot more fun on both sides in that game than I ever did in DBD.
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@SewerSwans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346995#Comment_1346995
My intention was that the healing penalty is additional to the current slowdown. Otherwise, my change would just make Thana an inferior Sloppy. Plague gets no use of the healing penalty, but can still benefit from the extra 12 seconds added to gens.
ah. I retract what I said then.
25% might be a bit much through if it's stacking with the 12% already on the perk.
Maybe cut that down to 10% or something?
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Up The Anti - You receive 20% more skill checks. While inside the Killers terror radius gain 50%/75%/100% more progress from great skill checks (as in at tier 3 the progress gained is doubled).
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@SewerSwans said:
Coulrophobia; in addition to its current benefit, your Terror Radius lingers for an extra 15 seconds after leaving an area. This applies the perk's effect more widely, synergizes with other Terror Radius perks like Infectious & Dark Devo, and provides a fun way to confuse survivors.
Thanatophobia: Injured survivors recieve an additional 25 percent penalty to healing other survivors. The goal here is to buff Thana without buffing Plague and encourage a playstyle of broad injury. If you're correctly utilizing a Thana playstyle of injuring everyone, healing becomes nightmarishly slow, but if there's a healthy person left to heal who you injured, the additional penalty can be ignored completely.
Ok but that runs into the opposite problem of NERFING Plague.
Thanataphobia is a gen stall perk primarily, not an anti-heal perk.
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@gungle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346310#Comment_1346310
yeah that should do it
BHVR balancing 101 am I right?
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@Loner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346145#Comment_1346145
Those are not bad ideas at all. I guess the 1st one,you could just give everyone claws or maybe make their name change colors or something like that while in chase? For the 3rd,i'm guessing you'd just put certain action icons near everyone's name to indicate what they are doing? Like for repairing a gen,they'd have a gen icon near their name or something like that?
The portrait could just show the Survivors repairing a gen or whatever, with the current healthy or injured icons only being used if they aren't preforming any channels.
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@BlazeNightash said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346345#Comment_1346345
that was just an example my dude, my point is chase is currently buggy and the fact that you randomly lose chase means this perk can be pretty broken at times, until they actually fix the bug that causes chase to randomly drop for no reason, this perk shouldn't come to light at all
Meh. It's not a problem.
Scratchmark loss perks inherently have counterplay through prediction. And the more ways to remove scratchmarks the better. Since not having scratchmarks encourages escaping the chase over stalling it. Which is a more healthy way of playing the game.
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@BlazeNightash said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/160326/survivor-perk-idea-out-of-mind
i feel like this would be busted given how the game currrently is, been in plenty of games where i randomly lose chase even though i can literally see the ######### in front of me
If you literally see the ######### in front of you then there's no problem.
It's removing scratchmarks, not tanking a hit or giving them haste or something. If you know where they are then it doesn't matter if the perk is active or not, and if you don't then that's entirely the point.
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Have the bottom left icons also display:
- Chase status
- Being in the TR or not
- The specific action being preformed at the moment
To the other Survivors. And then have perk indicators on more perks.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1345829#Comment_1345829
how in the holy mother of hell does nurse have "ease of use" ?
Pretty sure it's Spirit and Freddy that have the ease of use and they just worded it poorly.
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...Which is why I don't sacrafice myself for my SWF.
Being on a voice chat doesn't make me turn stupid, and it gives me the ability to yell at anyone who is.
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Autodidact and second wind.
Getting Autodidact stacked is super hard. But oh boy is it satisfying when you finally do.
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100 seconds before your first down is far too much time, and looking at the specific chase that happened you could have easily shortened both the initial patrol time and the chase time.
You could have easily gotten that down to 60 seconds, maybe even a little less, for your first down.
The 2nd chase could also have been done better and as other methods better perk usage would have slowed them down by quite a bit.
Now there is still the issue in that even with these optimizations you'd still be down like 2 gens by the time you got your 2nd down, which while a lot better than losing all 5 gens is still extremely fast. So there is still room for improvement in terms of game design that these early game fixes will hopefully help with.
But getting 5 gens completed so fast was 100% preventable, at least a bit.
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I mean I guess. Maybe not the most sustainable counter but whatever.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
Guys guys guys. The win condition is fun! Did you have fun?! Then you win!
sigh
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344654#Comment_1344654
What is success, if you say escaping then 9/10 players who actually know about DBD will laugh. Even the Devs would laugh at you, I mean right now you can escape and black pip
And if the devs do laugh then the are explicity contradicting text they wrote in game.
This game has a tutorial. Said tutorial spells out the win conditions. Survivors win if they escape. Killers win if they kill the Survivors. Simple as that.
A ranking system that doesn't use the win conditions doesn't make the win condition the wrong win condition. All it means is that the ranking system is not using the win conditions to determine who does and does not rank up, which only means matchmaking won't be sorting by who is the most optimal player like it should. There is no deeper meaning and this isn't the only game to do that.
Saying 9/10 DBD players will laugh at means just means that 9/10 DBD players didn't read the tutorial and came to an objectively wrong conclusion about the win conditions as a result.
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@HollowsGrief said:
As long as second chance perks are allowed to synergize with one another then nothing will ever change. The post was a nice thought though.
Your build might, even if others won't.
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@Frankie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344049#Comment_1344049
Again - whether or not I'd be "surprised" is of no consequence. With the amount of RNG DBD has *IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN AI ALGORITHM TO DETERMINE IF A PLAYER IS SKILLED*. Period. There is no two ways about it. It's literally impossible.
All you need to do is measure success to decide the direction of the change and measure the MMR of the other players to decide the magnitude of the change. From there everything will work itself out over time.
Good players are the players that succeed more than bad players. Worrying about the how's is an inappropriate use of a ranking system.
So long as you are measuring success as your primary metric, sooner or later the most optimal players will be sorted to the top while least optimal players will be sorted to the bottom.
The RNG doesn't matter because it applies to everyone meaning it will even out over several games.
Abuse of overpowered mechanics only kinda matters, but is also a quality you would expect an optimal player to have. Aka: The best player uses the best build and uses it to maximum effectiveness.
If a mechanic is so overpowered that anyone using it is practically getting a free win, then trying to solve that with the MMR is not the appropriate use of an MMR system. Such a problem is for the balance team to solve, not the matchmaking team.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1343050#Comment_1343050
What will happen with the achievements then?
absolutely nothing. Ranks will still exist, they just won't be used for matchmaking.
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@JustCats said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344223#Comment_1344223
Scratchmarks are a big problem too, but ultimately it comes down to how one-dimensional the killer's game is. Hooking people to death is their only positive feedback loop - there's no other way for them to influence the outcome. Survivors have many different things they can do in their approach to success, including being able to interfere dramatically with the killer's only available feedback loop - meaning they can try to win the game while they prevent the killer from being able to try. These are the perks that enable it, so it's not surprising to see an obsessive focus from killers.
I do feel like if you just swapped the "terror radius" from the killer to the survivor (and made it much smaller) and made scratchmarks fade much sooner (if not eliminate them entirely) you'd have a healthier chase dynamic that didn't invariably devolve into running circles around piles of trash. It'd put a priority on getting distance from the killer rather than just finding ways to dodge him indefinitely. Granted, of course, that you didn't have 3 or 4 ways to avoid the killer when he did catch you.
I'm trying to say that the one-dimentionallity of the Killers gameplay is a direct result of balancing around scratchmarks. Making it a symptom rather than the cause.
Your solution of built in whispers replacing scratchmarks as a mechanic in general sounds interesting tho.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344179#Comment_1344179
I don't believe this is true.
Killers camp and tunnel because its one of the easiest ways to efficiently kill people. Not because survivors run specific perks. And if you can win a chase, tunneling isn't an option - true. I've had chases post-hook that lasted until my DS ran out. But that's not a very realistic scenario. How many people coming off a hook with the killer right there have an opportunity to even enter a chase? Not many.
Tunneling sure, but camping is extremely inefficient. 60 seconds per phase is longer than a typical chase would have taken.
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@JustCats said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344189#Comment_1344189
It's more the playstyle that these perks enable that makes camping and tunneling the easiest ways to kill people. With the current state of the game, everything the killer does is reactive to the survivors. If it were easier to escape the killer but harder to maintain a chase, tunneling and camping wouldn't be anything but griefing a bad player and a sure path to losing MMR. Right now the survivors have all the tools to maintain a chase pretty much as long as they don't make an obvious mistake, which is far more valuable (in terms of wasting killer time) than getting away - so they don't even consider other perks or modes of gameplay. Just loop. Tunneling and camping is just a reaction to that.
This paragraph is why Scratchmarks are ultimately the source of this games problems, and thus why I value perks like Poised so much from a game design standpoint.
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@Nobsyde said:
Also winning in any game in general doesn't inherently require skill
In a competitive game? Yes. A game that doesn't inherently require skill to win/lose is not a competitive game, it's just... a game.
Otherwise even rock-paper-scissor is a competitive game - and btw I suppose you honestly think that rock-paper-scissor is a competitive game, because of your definition of competition (every game that's player vs player).
That's a definition I reject though.
Ahem:
League of legends does not inherently require skill
Counterstrike does not inherently require skill
Both of those games are esports played professionally. The reason professional play requries skill is because the other players are optimized to the point of crushing anyone without skill. However that's circumstantial, not something inherent to the game itself. That same set of circumstance that comes from optimization of your opponent also applies to Dead By Daylight, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Monopoly ect. The games difficulty is entirely dependent on your opponents ability to counter your strategies.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Soul Guard will become Meta.
I don't doubt it.
@JustCats said:
DS, BT, Unbreakable encourage tunneling and camping more than they dissuade it. If nobody ran those builds and instead ran a chase like they were trying to get away instead of to waste as much killer time as possible (which these perks enable big time), you'd see a lot less tunneling and camping.
Agreed. Tunnelers can't do ######### if you successfully escape the chase. Being invisible instead of invincible has it's advantages.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344151#Comment_1344151
I agree, DS doesn't really stop tunneling. A Killer will still pursue a DSer in a lot of cases and down them eventually anyway. The benefit is the waste of time, or its very strong end-game use. I don't think your builds stop tunneling either though - if they did, people would use them instead. For example, using babysitter to allow the off-hooked to have an easier time escaping. Killers with a tendency for camping/tunneling usually come back as a an off-hook is taking place, so they don't really need to see the scratch marks...they can see the survivor. The same with adrenaline...it does you no good for 90% of a match. It's only useful in end game, its most powerful use is completely situational, and you don't have control over when you use it. All the perks you listed are good perks - no doubt. I run Kindred. I run iron will. But DS and BT are a core part of my build because they are just more useful and effective than some of these other perks for these specific situations. But, if you find these builds work better for you and your play style - that's great. I have tried other builds, because I don't like feeling like I have to use the same perks over/over again just because camping/tunneling is so common. But alas, the second I dont have perks like BT...I get into a scenario where the only solution would have been BT. And I immediately revert back.
Personally I just love trying to come up with as many builds as possible and trying to make every perk work for at least something.
For example whenever a new chapter is released I always make a list of perk build ideas that involve the new perks, and I try and use each perk at least twice. Even if it's only for gimmik builds.
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@LALYTHIA said:
I appreciate the effort you put into trying to think about these scenarios, but a lot of these scenarios don't play out this way - and no one is going to use lesser perks to combat these play styles when there are more viable perks available.
Eh yeah I know. The idea is to point out alternative methods instead of just DS, BT, Unbreakable every game.
At least try dropping DS, if you must keep unbreakable sure whatever but by explicitly limiting myself from using those perks I instead have to come up with other ways to solve the problems.
I pointed this out with the anti-tunnel builds. The point of them isn't to be a crutch, but to give your chases a win condition.
Even Decisive Strike doesn't stop tunneling, it deters it but it doesn't stop it. The builds I propose STOP tunneling. As in they could attempt to tunnel you and try chasing you all game, but still fail anyways. Particularly with the first build.
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The moral of the story is that Leader is an underrated perk, since it's the only perk that lets other Survivors do actions faster on you, rather than the other way around.
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Also winning in any game in general doesn't inherently require skill. The only reason why it appears to is because while skill isn't strictly required a lot of the time, you can often use skill in order to be more consistent compared to someone else that isn't using skill.
This is why in practice you can't just hide in a courner and escape every game as a Survivor. Against bad Killer the 3 remaining Survivors will often just complete the gens for you and you can escape, but given a proper ranking system (which we don't have right now and is why I find the emblem system shortsighted) such a Survivor would eventually rank up to the point where they are facing Killers that consistently can kill all 3 Survivors in a 3v1, leaving them to have to rely on hatch plays which are not in their favor.
But even if they DO manage to win the hatch 1v1's enough, they'd just be further ranked up into Killers that slug for the 4k, which you would expect because if the Killers are ranking up (again, assuming a proper ranking system that hasn't been implemented because emblems are not it) it's because they have a more consistent strategy than the ones that didn't.
And the same reasoning can be applied to camping Killers.
Anyone that abuses a low skill gimmik strategy will eventually be ranked up into the point where they are facing players that know it's counter. And if it's not something that can be countered then it's a domanent strategy that you would expect the best players to use anyways and thus they should still be ranked up while the devs do some rebalancing.
Basically, the emblem system is shortsighted because it's trying to encourage/discourage specific playstyles through the ranking system instead of through the games mechanics. Which is why you have successful Killers/Survivors with extremely consistent strategies that still aren't being pipped up so they can face higher level players that might know it's counters.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1341205#Comment_1341205
your definition is lax, though.
What you define as competitive is, in fact, player versus player, and what you define as cooperative is player vs environment, which is a possible way to look at it, but absolutely not true per se.
For example, I could say that a competition presumes a win and a lose condition (often a draw as well), a score system to keep track of the win/losses (and sometimes the partial score), a set of game rules and that's about it.
Using your example, Dark Souls can be a competitive game, once you try to speed run it.
On the contrary, DbD has an asymmetrical scoring system: bloodpoints and/or pips are not really comparable between survivors and killers, meaning that a killer could, depending on the definition of win you use, win against the game together with the survivors (or, in other words, they can both win).
Even if you decide to take the kill count to define the win/loss, it's still something arbitrary and competitively speaking meaningless: it wouldn't reflect your skill level, nor the inherent point system of the game (bloodpoints / pip score),
Of course Dark Souls speedrunning is a competitive game.
However Dark Souls is not the same game as Dark Souls speedrunning. They use the same mechanics but differ in their win condition, making them distinct entities.
Just like how minecraft isn't quite the same game as spleef, even though spleef is played within minecraft.
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@ZerLukas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1341046#Comment_1341046
Then why can a player rank up by losing and derank by winning?
Because the ranking system is trying to determine skill separately from success.
The idea being that it would pick out players that are either being carried, or players that are skilled but get held back by bad teammates.
Personally I find that reasoning to be shortsighted, but I'm not the devs, and it sounds like the MMR system they are implementing soon will resolve that issue for all practical purposes anyways.