SewerSwans
SewerSwans
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@IronWill said:
The perk is fine the way it is right now.
If the killer is a stealth one, he can simply follow and wait the 15 seconds in sneak and then instadown the unhooked person again.
Also the wigglebar has to be at 35% or more? LOL when there are hooks like every 3 meters...
The counterplay is simple: don't tunnel. It's only 60 seconds at rank 3 for ONE time during the whole match. It's not like the survivor is immortal for the rest of the trial.
It's twice; it doesn't deactivate until they stab you or die.
A survivor with DS active works a vital gen in front of me, or unhooks, or bodyblocks. Is your suggestion that I "don't tunnel?". Because this is what good survivors use DS to do.
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@Brisingr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433219#Comment_1433219
Killers do have perks that rewards injuries and downs: Knockout, Infectious, Sloppy, Thantaphobia, etc.
Award injuries and downs, as in, give you them. Such a perk would be ridiculous for the same reason 4x DS and 4x Unbreakable feel ridiculous. These are an incredibly powerful presence in the match that doesn't feel at all equivalent to the killers' perks or subject to the killer's counterplay.
The closest equivalent is Pop & NOED, NOED having counterplay but rewarding failure, and Pop reversing survivor objectives but requiring the killer to get a hook to do so.
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You must understand survivor pathing. When you understand this, any disruption that takes survivors off gens will result in a cascade of teleport hits. You put on Corrupt, you get out prep before anyone even knows it's Hag, defocus on chasing.
Hag is excellent vs solos but requires a bit of practice. A good start is to understand yr trap radius, visible around the trap as blurred air. One trap can cover both use of a pallet and anyone trying to path near that pallet, for instance. With efficient use of radius, it's v difficult to not set off your traps.
You also must space traps out adequately so they aren't wasted. Keep in mind anyone you hit will recieve a speed boost, and know how far they can get with it, what they can reach. Your aim is for what they reach to be trapped. Then you get a 5 second chase and a down.
Your down allows you to force survivors into an area. Trap that area. Snowball.
Oh, also identify at game-start the 3 gen you want to ensure survives to endgame. Localize yr prep to ensure you can almost always teleport to a trap that's set off.
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The mistake here is the idea that random rank 1 survivors aren't, on the whole, boosted. They are. The entire meta of DbD at a high level is "play wounded, rush gens". What do you think that means for a killer whose only power is to wound people easily, and has no way beyond regular chasing to incentivize a heal? No counter to pallets? No nothing?
Legion sprints halfway to the kill and crawls the rest. Spirit sprints, takes a moment to recharge her power and sprints again. That's not the same vs skilled loopers.
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@MrLimonka said:
I don't understand why people say billy was "the most balanced killer". He had ridiculous mobility and an ability to insta down - the two abilities that are the most helpful to killers. He also had insta-saw addons, which was the most broken thing in the game (not even ultra rare addons). Otherwise, I would agree that Michael is very balanced. I also think Plague is there too - if the survivors decide to cleanse, you have a powerful weapon. If they don't, they are loud and go down in one hit and you still have one corrupt fountain.
Strong killers are balanced because the game overall is survivor sided. Vs strong survivors, only very strong killers suffice. Myers is balanced vs weaker survivors. Outside of that he loses multiple gens to split pressure just to become an M1 killer. He's a killer almost solely dependent on survivor mistakes when you go up against people who can do things like looping you infinitely around a rock in T1 while denying Stalk and split up vs T3.
It makes him a version of Oni that trades a metric ton of snowball for a pound of stealth, and it's not a good trade for him.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1433027#Comment_1433027
It’s not 12 extra lives. Think about how many times someone goes on the hook the first time around and it’s their last because killers proxy camp or don’t get rescued by their teammates. Sometimes you need second chance perks to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! That’s what they are there for. I’m sorry if I went into every single game as a survivor relying on 3 randoms to take care of me I’d never win a game. It’s just not fun for the people playing survivor. Swf is the only thing that stands a chance. You can’t be mad at second chance perks because it’s too easy to get a down as a killer. You act like it’s hard to find people 😂 so what you get caught once you’re done for? Nooooooo. Absolutely not. I would uninstall the game immediately. Mostly because it’s too easy for killers to find people and go from one person to the next because of the perks killers have especially while using a good headset to listen for moaning survivors in pain. It’s not hard. How much more do they need to spoon feed killers to do their job?
So you're saying second chance perks are so powerful they compensate acceptably for survivors' teammates being utterly boosted, and displaying a complete lack of teamwork, in a team game. You say this is why they're okay.
That sounds to me like an argument for why they're absolutely not okay in the hands of good players. Good survivors who can loop, who typically do not care about being found at all. This analysis does not relate to playing vs these kinds of survivors, and complaints about second chance perks usually do.
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Unbreakable is despised because split pressure = mandatory slugging, so there's barely any counterplay & it makes a huge difference.
DS awards a minute of immortality for getting outplayed, and allows the survivor to force you to contend with the DS by making aggressive plays. The less you tunnel, the more minutes of invincibility. The more pressure you apply, the less they need to fear you. All in an ideological dressing of 'it's an anti tunnel perk, just don't tunnel!".
Additionally, killers have no perks that award downs or injuries. So it feels cheap when survivors get perks that dodge a hook state & reverse a down without any conditions other than "you got outplayed by the killer". It's similar to how NOED feels cheap.
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@Feyd said:
I never deal with DS as a killer. Just don't go back to your hook and you're fine.
Second, it's a five second stun that no longer is affected by enduring so that the survivor gets a chance to get somewhere instead of just immediately being smacked back down. The perk is powerful for a reason, but whether or not it does anything is *entirely* in the hands of the killer.
You're affected by the survivor with DS unhooking and repairing vital gens. This is what good survivors do with DS. If you propose giving out free unhooks and allowing potential 3 gens for late game to be destroyed, you are being affected by DS. If you waste time chasing the DS, you are affected by DS. What is the way to deal with that?
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@Skelemania said:
I was someone that felt that Hillbilly needed to be brought into line with other killers. It didn't make sense to me, in example, for his abilities to be better than Oni, whom had a dash bar that he had to build up to get - which allowed him to 1-shot down people. Meanwhile, Billy could run forever & not have to build it up first. I did think Hillbilly needed changed. Because it would be easier to bring him down than to bring everyone else up.
I just don't agree with how they changed him. I feel like this instead will just make killers avoid selecting him entirely.
Oni's power makes him impossible to loop at almost any structure. Billy's power makes him easier to loop if he's trying to hit it. Tier lists typically place Oni right by Billy.
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@Aneurysm said:
Muffler w/ tinkerer tho
The question is if you hear Billy's warcry at the start of sprint if you can't hear the chainsaw. If you hear a warcry and no chainsaw, you know it's something like this. Given BHVR's recent attitude towards 'knowing something is happening' as exhibited in Trail Of Torment, I assume you can.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1423993#Comment_1423993
Camping/tunneling is an intended & allowed use of game mechanics, requiring precise positioning and accurate m1 attacks to do effectively. Not sure why you'd complain about it, its one of the fairest & most skillful plays a killer can make.
Easy there. I've never complained about either of these things in my life. OP's clear goal was to grief the other player over the survivor mechanic I'd object to least. That's what I'm commenting on.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1423993#Comment_1423993
Camping/tunneling is an intended & allowed use of game mechanics, requiring precise positioning and accurate m1 attacks to do effectively. Not sure why you'd complain about it, its one of the fairest & most skillful plays a killer can make.
Feels a little disingenuous. I've never complained about facecamping or tunneling in my life. OP's clear purpose was to grief the other player over bodyblocking, probably the survivor mechanic I would complain about least. That's what I'm commenting on.
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A survivor bodyblocking hook is an intended & allowed use of game mechanics, requiring precise positioning and understanding of how much wiggle is left. I don't really see why you'd facecamp over it. It's one of the fairest & most skillful plays a survivor can make.
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Aggressive use of DS forces a tunnel. DS user repairs a vital gen near the killer, DS user comes in for the unhook, etc. A minute of immortality activates regardless of what the killer does and enables high risk high reward plays becoming low risk, high reward plays. Competent DS users use this.
Unbreakable is powerful because slugging is mandatory vs split pressure; 10 seconds to find a surv, 20 sec chase, 10 seconds to hook? You just lost half of 3 different gens, and that's if you made good time. Slugging is how you take a rescuer, a slug and the person you're chasing off gens briefly to avoid a 4 minute game.
Ignoring the meta doesn't change the meta. Nobody played this meta before this meta formed, and yet it formed, because of the fundamental structure of the game & allocation of power.
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Seconding Jacket from Hotline Miami; that would be an absolute dream. Imagine the Terror Radius music and the map.
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People are mad about the nerf because it's BHVR walking straight past a gallery of fire extinguishers to chuck oil on several different blazes. To say "well, it's only a little oil! You're just mad because you can't handle any heat!" really misses the point there.
Out of the top 4 killers, one is brokenly buggy and considered unfun to play due to an addon-gate cooldown nerf. The other two are considered very unfun to play against and in need of changes. What is happening? A potentially addon-gate cooldown nerf dealt to the bottom rung who everyone considered both fun and balanced. What a perfect storm. And if Billy's change is truly insignificant, the risk of unintended effects is the bigger part of it by far. Sound bug, etc etc etc.
This is also in an environment where about 5 killers can say "if I play well, I escape being a hapless chew toy for an equally skilled SWF". So the anxiety produced by nerfing a killer already considered fair and fun is tremendous.
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Flashlights are so counterable, I would consider them a good thing for most killers. Before picking up, swivel to face somewhere where nobody can be hiding (open field, map edge, sparse cover, etc), face a wall, or do a quick sweep of nearby hiding spots and turn unpredictably before picking up.
In 99 percent of cases, a survivor will have left the gen for nothing, directly benefitting you.
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I feel survivor requires skill beyond AFKing on gens & farming hooks, even if the ranking system would disagree.
Part of that skill is making good saves, not getting hooked in the middle of my 3 gen for an easy proxy, and knowing when to play cautiously when you're on low hook lives. If you lack these skills, I'm not going to shoulder the burden for you. If I'm playing Overwatch, and the enemy Reinhardt drops his shield at a bad moment, do you think I'm shy about punishing his teammates for his mistake? I'm not. I'll pop his Supports bang in the head if I can. This is the nature of team games, and DbD is a team game for one side.
If I'm having an easy time I'll sometimes offer mercy, but if you're good enough to compete, I approach the game with a competitive mindset.
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@Sadsnacks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1405971#Comment_1405971
At the end of the day ANY tier list is going to be subjective
The average results of putting a highly skilled Clown and a highly skilled Nurse vs a team of high level survivors are a plain fact. This fact is what a tier list usually aims to measure. A degree of subjectivity is present, but "GhostFace is S tier because he can teabag and Nurse is F because I can't play her after 30 matches" is a personal enjoyment list, not a tier list, and I feel like it's best to mark it as such so you're not misunderstood.
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Tier lists are typically based off high level play, and used to state the inherent strength of something's kit in high level play. Based off yr posts, this is not really a tier list so much as a personal preference list. The level of play at which Clown is SS is either in another dimension or plain subterranean.
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1396167#Comment_1396167
"barely ever using it" which implies you still are using it though.
Even if you only used self-care once per match, that still brings it in line with the effect of other perks that only activate once. Two of the 4 examples you provided yourself are perks that can only be used once, DS deactivates after it's used and so does Unbreakable.
The difference is that Self-Care provides the possibility to be used more than once, even if you do only use it once, it can change the tide between whether you survive or whether you don't. Much in the same way that Unbreakable allows you to pick yourself up from the dying state once, or DS prevents you from being hooked completely once.
If anything, you're "barely using" the perks that you yourself mentioned namely Unbreakable and DS, you could go through a whole match without ever being slugged or tunneled while the DS timer is active. Whereas every match it's very likely that you'll at some point be injured and looking for a heal, making way for the extreme versatility that I already described in my previous post, just to rename a few: Healing yourself mid-chase, healing yourself when no one else can heal you (everyone else is dead), finishing off a heal from a teammate the killer interrupted, healing yourself more efficiently with a medkit, etc. just to name a few.
DS and Unbreakable are ridiculously powerful effects that enable extremely bold plays by their presence as a safety net even if they aren't used. They directly undo time spent by the killer without wasting any of your time. Offensive use of DS doesn't rely on tunneling. Their activation conditions are less "everyone is dead" or "heal interrupted" and more "killer slugs in the mandatory slugging meta" or "killer dares to fulfill their objective by hooking". They are on another planet to Self Care, in my opinion.
In a game where the highest level survivors rarely bother healing at all, and healing itself is situational, a situational healing perk with big drawbacks cannot compete with heavyweights like DS.
Also, Self Care takes 32 seconds. If you get that off in chase, I tip my hat to you.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397071#Comment_1397071
May i ask who those Top players are?
I was mistaken about Zubat, but Fungoose regards Huntress as much better IIRC. Showstopper is a high level PS4 player who regards Deathslinger as an unspectacular killer and Huntress as pretty good. However, now you ask I'm taking another look, and Dowsey has a rank 1 tier list that places Deathslinger above Huntress. Although he does mention this is based on 'rank 1 viability' and mentions average rank 1 killers as a factor in his placement of Huntress, so I'm not sure if a competitive viability tier list from him would put Huntress higher.
I'm not sure what Jund thinks, he doesn't have a decent tier list, which is a significant omission.
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397071#Comment_1397071
The top players I follow that actually play Deathslinger frequently and don't find him boring (namely Zubat) think he's better than Huntress.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397288#Comment_1397288
Hard disagree. Between having a microscopic terror radius with no hum, and an instant windup time, you can m1-shoot-down combo with DS just as easily as you can Hatchet-melee combo with Huntress. Plus he plays around loops infinitely better due to the lack of windup time and penalty for putting his gun down, which are Huntress's biggest weak points. And the chain is so forgiving that you can get hit on the other side of short loops and DS can still lunge around, or walk backwards out in the open to remove the possibility of getting behind cover because you're moving too fast to get caught. Good Huntresses are scary for sure, but I'd rather go against a huntress than a deathslinger every day of the week.
Oh man, didn't actually know that about Zubat; thank you. I'll go looking for slinger gameplay from him.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397005#Comment_1397005
Thank god there is one other sane person on here and thinks Deathslinger is better than everyone says. Find it funny that everyone says "BuT hE dOeSn'T hAvE mAp PrEsSuRe" when almost every killer in the game doesn't have map pressure except for Billy and maybe Wraith. Killers like Deathslinger and Nurse create pressure by downing people in 10 seconds, and I really don't know how this is such a hard concept to grasp for some people.
Nurse has much better mobility than Slinger and can use Infectious to move onto new targets in an eyeblink to take 3 people off gens via slugging. Her downs are consistently rapid if she plays her cards right. Slinger is not like Nurse. He's bedevilled either by his reload or his requirement to hit a 110 M1 every single chase with a healthy target, and by his lack of mobility, and most importantly by pallets, which he cannot down people over.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Huntress shuts down Huntress with her lullaby.
Hag can just overwrite her old traps so calling out placement is pointless. There's many other ways to disable her ability like having one person run into them all acting as bait.
Trapper is truly hurt by it. But he also has a plethora of gadgets and perks that betray his traps as well. Any ######### with a rainbow map doesn't fear him.
And many smart M1 killers will just ignore them if they're hard baiting. They might as well set off fireworks and flashlight click till they have blisters.
... 'just'? Hag rewrites the oldest trap placed; she may need to place ten new traps to overwrite the one an OoO saw her place, which considering trap placement time and movement time, can take a DbD-eternity of 60 seconds or more to actually put down a decent web. Even then she is relocating her traps to a place she doesn't want them, and the OoO sees that too, because they can literally surveil her 24/7 from a gen. Or a hook. Or the ground. So the Hag gains absolutely nothing. Fun counterplay.
The Hag's traps don't even give her a free M1 if survivors trigger them with perfect spacing like an OoO can, and they can normally only do this if they see the trap or its placement.
Huntress's 40 meter nondirectional lullaby does not equal 100 meter directional surveillance by an OoO.
"Trapper is hardcountered by something else, so it's fine if he's hardcountered by this too" is not an argument I'm accepting.
OoO is terrible for solos and broken cheese for SWFs that stamps on specific killers so hard they can barely play the game. It aggravates DbD's worst issues, like huge maps and toxicity. It is the single best example of a perk that needs to be reworked.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1384870#Comment_1384870
lmao that's only one mistake, and it's a necessary one in the beginning.
Chasing one player the entire game is necessary at the beginning of the game? It would have to be necessary all game if you're chasing all game. Every second after the first 15 you give to a bad chase is its own mistake; watch a player like Fungoose and how casually he breaks off a chase to patrol his gens after getting a pallet, a hit, or even just seeing someone's a very strong looper. You aren't chained to one person until you get your first down.
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@Terra92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1385075#Comment_1385075
Unless it's Hag, who forces you to play stealth the entire game or get popped on every tile.
Play stealth against Hag and you're guaranteed to die as soon as she finds someone, with her fully deployed web. You play aggressively vs Hag with coordinated trap destruction, destroying her web while she carries to hook, surveiling her to set off her traps with precision so she doesn't get a free M1, etc.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1397071#Comment_1397071
Almost no terror radius is incredible. Huntress has the lullaby no matter what perks she uses.
Quickscoping is incredible. Huntress has the windup that gives players a tell, that she's going to throw. You can even see when she's throwing. Deathslinger is instantaneous.
Long shots aren't incredible. They're eh.
I bet most high rank players will choose Deathslinger over Huntress.
A killer with poor mobility needs strong snowball to compensate, or they're rolled over by a team pounding gens. Deathslinger wins the 1v1 easier but loses the 1v4 to split pressure because his snowballing's bad. That's why top players' tier lists put him below Huntress, as far as I understand. If by high rank you mean rank 1s, sure, most rank 1s play at a level where split pressure doesn't occur consistently and most the survivors on the team are boosted.
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Oni below Clown is... Not a thing, but I do appreciate someone putting Myers low. He is not a good killer. Most your choices, I agree with. I highly disagree with S Hag, she's massively vulnerable to SWF and aggressive trap disruption. Vs solos, she's S.
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@Munqaxus said:
Ok, how in the heck is Huntress rated an S and Deathslinger rated a B? That makes no sense. Deathslinger is the exact same as Huntress, except better in every way, except for 2. Iridescent Heads and being able to down someone over a pallet.
- Lower Terror Radius
- Quickscoping
- Shot drags you to Deathslinger, reducing looping
- Reload while moving
- Infinite ammo
Every top player regards Huntress as better. Bypassing pallets is incredible, long shots are incredible. Deathslinger must either shoot you, hit you and then land a regular 110 M1,shoot you and then lose huge distance by reloading, or land a regular 110 M1 to open and then shoot you. He doesn't snowball like Huntress, who can simply hit two hatchets and drop you.
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1393563#Comment_1393563
I disagree. It's not bad nor, is it really a huge time waster if you're using it correctly.
It's only bad if you're a dull blockhead with the perk and are using it constantly 24/7 during your matches for every possible heal. When in reality, that's not how you should be using it in the first place: obviously accept heals from anyone who's running bond, empathy, or aftercare and can find you really easily, obviously accept heals immediately after being unhooked (if safe and you have the time to do so) especially if they're running we'll make it or other perks that increase healing speed like Botany Knowledge, etc.
The perk itself is only as bad as how stupid you are with it, simple solution: don't be stupid with the perk, and it won't be a bad perk. The same logic can be applied to almost any other perk in the game - if you're being stupid with Dead Hard it's not a good perk, if you're being stupid with Object of Obsession it's not a good perk, etc. so on and so forth.
So how should you use Self-Care? For heals when you're limited on options: nobody else is around, perhaps everyone is already dead so there would be no reason not to use self care, perhaps you need an extra health state because everybody is dead or dying and you need the extra health state for protection to make safe(r) saves. Self-care can be used mid-chase if you can afford the few seconds of being stationary behind a vault or pallet, it can be a game-changing way to extend your chases if you manage to heal yourself back to full mid-chase. Self-Care can also be used to mop up a heal maybe you were being healed by teammates but the killer came and interrupted that heal, Self-Care is a perfect way to finish that off and get you back to full. It's also fine to use self-care if you're ahead of the game, the killer is struggling to apply pressure and gens are being done quickly so you can afford to spend that time self-caring. etc. As a general rule you can use Self-Care maybe one or two times per match outside of those conditions / situations that I already laid out
It also serves the dual purpose of making self-heals better when using a med-kit, the efficiency is increased by 10/15/20% so not only are you pulling off a heal with a medkit which takes the exact same amount of time as someone else healing you (16 seconds) but you're also using less charges to pull that heal off, leaving more charges for later to finish up a heal quickly or maybe even fit in multiple more heals depending on how good your medkit is.
TL;DR on "how should you use self-care?" use it as a last resort, preferring and attempting to get heals in almost any other fashion first and foremost before relying on self-care. Never as your primary method of healing, in this way it can be a very good and useful perk to have in your back pocket. If you don't believe me, please re-read the previous two paragraphs.
The only real problem with the perk is the widespread incorrect usage of the perk by bad players, but that's hardly a valid argument you can make that a bad player is what determines whether or not a perk is any good or not. Part of the reason for this is that Self-Care is a teachable that belongs to one of the original 4 survivors and one of 6 that are free to play. As such obviously it will naturally make its way into the hands of new players more quickly as opposed say, a perk like Decisive Strike which is a teachable owned by a licensed character.
A lot of these bad players can often bring their bad habits with them as they slowly climb up the ranks maybe even all the way to red when they shouldn't really be there in the first place. Simply because nobody told or taught them otherwise on how to properly use a deceptively simple perk in a far more nuanced, complex, and thoughtful manner. But again, bad players sticking a bad connotation and giving a bad name to a very decent if not good perk is not an actual point for argument, that's just a stigma.
If you use Self Care this sensibly, you're barely ever using it, making it again a bad perk. You could take something like DS that gives you consistent, massive value anytime the killer brings you closer to death, Iron Will which is valuable anytime you're wounded and in danger, Unbreakable, BT, etc.
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If they didn't have DS, they were on lower hook lives than you, and you hid and let them risk getting tunnelled instead of taking aggro, I understand why in frustration they might point you out to the killer.
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@Todgeweiht said:
My killer tier list but based on how good their cosmetics are
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E98DJ808K8D7/my-image-2810-29.png
Spirit in A? On what grounds? My true objection here is Deathslinger equal to the mighty Huntress. All of Deathslinger's outfits are like, "cowboy with bad facial hair". Huntress can be a communist military hog, a toe-clawed gunk-owl, and a bunch of other things. Beautiful colours & textures. What's Deathslinger wearing? Black, gray, and brown. Absolutely out of order; slander; disgrace. Won't be having it.
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BHVR say no, they don't want a hard survivor meta. I say the same.
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Myers in A, Plague below Legion, Legion above damn' near anyone, Hag below Trapper? What level of play is this based on?
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;)
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@[Deleted User] said:
I mean most will say Billy, but the comparison only goes as far them both having chainsaws.
A billy is a pain in the arse because of his mobility, but a smart leatherface with perfect spacing will be impossible to juke once they’ve got their chainsaw going.
A Billy is equally impossible to juke. Great Billies pretty much do not miss backrevs.
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If you're in a 1v1 hatch standoff with the killer, your team were massively outplayed; you're not favoured in a situation the killer had to outplay you to get, and you shouldn't be.
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If you're in a 1v1 hatch standoff with the killer, your team were massively outplayed; you're not favoured in a situation the killer had to outplay you to get.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I mean most will say Billy, but the comparison only goes as far them both having chainsaws.
A billy is a pain in the arse because of his mobility, but a smart leatherface with perfect spacing will be impossible to juke once they’ve got their chainsaw going.
A Billy is equally impossible to juke. Great Billies pretty much do not miss backrevs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1391823#Comment_1391823
You are entirely incorrect about Trail of Torment.
Have you even used the perk?!
I thought the perk would be total crap when it was announced, but made a point of giving it a chance when I could. It’s one of my new favourite perks.
16 seconds is much longer than most realise. You can travel across most of the map in that time, and I’ve gotten free hits for days out of the perk. Why? I suspect it’s because survivors genuinely don’t expect the killer could actually get that far from the highlighted gen.
I play 110s and Nurse, so I'm probably a little off at how far a 115 gets.
That said, good survivors can see the gen light up and watch for you at the timing that you would arrive at their gen, because you've pinpointed your location for them with perfect exactness. 16 seconds allows you some distance; it doesn't allow very unpredictable movement with that distance. If survivors are getting free hit by a flashing neon sign that says "HEY I'M UNDETECTABLE FOR A SHORT PERIOD", all I can tell you is that I don't choose my perks to beat survivors like that.
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Trail Of Torment: reveal your location, waste time kicking a gen, gain 16 seconds undetectable. Can't get far from the gen with that 16 seconds so sole use is preventing BT saves or vs boosted survivors who won't be alert to you when the gen lights up. Ridiculous cooldown. 1/10 perk. Any killer with the mobility to use this is too loud or doesn't benefit from Undetectable much, cooldown is a tent peg sized nail in the coffin.
Deathbound: gives you information you can't really act on quickly. Oblivious is nice. Situational. 5/10. Being generous here, because highly skilled survivors rarely heal vs most killers.
Forced Penance:
Broken effect mediocre. Extremely difficult to trigger, to the point of relying on luck to recieve its mediocre value. 1/10.
If any of these perks are above a 5/10, Pop and Corrupt have gotta be a 20/10.
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Coal Tower is regarded by the top players I know of as the most balanced map. Maps like Ormond & Mother's Dwelling are much more in need of fixing IMO. Also, the Tower loop is considered fairly strong IIRC? I play Nurse & Hag, so I'm not always as aware of the strongest loops.
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As well as notification for when reports are acted upon, being given Props should be visible for the player getting them. I do not know why this isn't already the case.
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Nurse is S, in my opinion. Every top player I read tier lists from considers her S. Tier lists are based on the top level of play, and at the top level of play, nobody denies she's godly. You watch someone like Dowsey play her, who not only hits his blinks, but knows exactly how to blink to establish line of sight and prevent counterplay. You see him get a 10 second chase on a healthy player, in a god loop. I'm not going to tier Nurse based on how many people can't play her, I'll tier her based on the best, like every other killer.
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Why is Myers so high?
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
Welcome to necro Friday, I guess.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1388613#Comment_1388613
That's a sales pitch. Fungoose is by all means one to watch if you want to learn, but he's a confirmed dodger with his supposedly 'anti-sniping screen' and how he cherry-picks off-peak hours to play in an already small pond where he's the big fish. It's all good and I'd do the same, because streaming for a living is a roller-coaster and one needs something that'll make'em stand out. However, don't put too much stock into the promotional slogans and rather focus more on the educational content.
A good killer could 4k consistently in the red ranks because most survivors aren't that good. Those killers who come here posting about their mental breakdowns are simply overestimating their skills. However, when you're up against the really good survivors, you won't 4k like it's a walk in the park, which is as it should be.
I mean, he's in Aus where the queue times are bad, and he has been stream sniped. Watching the guy play, he really doesn't look like he needs to fudge the numbers: the people he plays against seem about as good as the people I play against at peak hours UK, if not better. I wouldn't call it confirmed, and my judgement's based off watching him get the streak, not the fact of it having happened.
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If you want to replenish your hope for playing killer, watch the likes of Fungoose, Dowsey, Scott Jund, ZubatLEL, etc. These players 4K 39/40 games at red ranks. Fungoose went on a 115 4K streak with no add-ons, no mori Plague at red ranks.
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@TheMythAJ said:
I’ve always been curious as to why killers find some perks to be so game breaking... Why is DS such an issue? BT? Unbreakable? Feel free to add any other perks that are extremely effective that you all have problems with.
This is an attempt to understand the complaints, not an attack. At most I’ll just respond with what I think are simple counters, ways around, etc.
Unbreakable & DS; Vs good survivors who split pressure and pound gens, losing half of 3 separate gens during a 40 second find-chase-hook progression is not viable. That's assuming a 10 second find, a 20 second chase and a 10 second carry to hook. Which I think is quite generous, vs good players. Injuries don't cut it as pressure because skilled loopers with Iron Will and Dead Hard are comfortable playing injured and don't heal.
So how can you possibly get enough pressure?
You slug one, then chase one, and someone has to get the slug. That's 3 people off gens, briefly. The more the survivors apply split pressure, the bigger the map, the more it compensates.
Enter Unbreakable and DS. DS enables the 'stay injured' meta by allowing unhooked players to put extra pressure on the killer for a minute instead of receiving extra pressure from the killer & having to heal. Unbreakable then punishes the killer for trying to counter 'stay injured, pound gens' by slugging. Doubly so if there's DS!
You let the active DS repair vital gens for free? Poor gen cluster, punished. You down and pick up? You spent time to lose pressure, punished. You down and slug? Unbreakable, you spent time to lose pressure, punished.
The only way to deal with any of these perks is to allow the survivor to get huge value out of them, because their activation condition is "killer fulfilled their objective". That's why they're so strong. If you don't tunnel the DS, they'll do gens in your face injured.
If you don't slug the Unbreakables, you give up too much time & too much chase potential hooking everyone every down, and lose.
These perks promote a really unhealthy playstyle where gen time is all survivors need to think about.
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Even most rank 1s lack knowledge like how to avoid a 3 gen, run common loops, or who should go for the unhook and who should play cautiously. Not always all at once, but they are missing vital pieces. Players who can do all these things are uncommon, and players who understand the individual nuances of each killer are even rarer.