NOEDENJOYER
NOEDENJOYER
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- NOEDENJOYER
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You're surely joking right? Decisive Strike & Borrowed Time practically make tunnelling obsolete in most games.
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I don't think it's a case of the survivors overpowering the killer, but more of a case that they simply have too many defences to get through that it becomes difficult to achieve anything as a standard M1 killer.
If you think about it:
-You need to close the distance, which involves both sides holding W.
-They begin to loop, and a lot of maps have too many safe pallets.
-Once you get past the safe pallets, you need to burn their exhaustion perk (namely dead hard) which often means a small reset in the chase
-Get the down, now you spend another 10-15 seconds to hook them.
-If you even think about going after them relatively soon after being hooked, you get cucked by Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable. And if you leave them for too long, they heal themselves within Circle of Healing.
It takes LITERAL MINUTES to down a survivor as a standard M1 killer, it's obnoxious. Survivors have a perk to counter every single strategy that the killer has to try to win the game. Tunnelling? DS. Camping? BT, Kinship, do gens. Slugging? UB, Exponential. Hit & run? Circle of Healing. Chase? Dead Hard x4
No wonder Nurse/Blight are the strongest because they literally do not care about any of the things above.
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@DangerScouse said:
Boons have broken this game.
Circle of Healing has broken this game, not the other boons.
2/3 of the roster are now practically helpless against COH. The only killers who can deal with COH are Blight, Nurse, one-shot killers and Plague.
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Undying, fairly got nerfed pretty damn quickly because it made the survivor experience miserable.
Circle of Healing, takes a couple of months to receive a "nerf" and remains a main contention to killer misery and is still a problem.
Just one example of how the developers don't actually care for the killers experience. If they did, COH would've been nuked as fast as Undying.
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Because as a killer you need to defend 7 generators, understand when to commit to chases, be able to down survivors quickly in a chase, keep track of 16 perks, be mindful of generator progress, master your own killer power and get good value from your own perks.
Conversely, survivors just need to hold M1 until the killer starts chasing them. And even then, perks like DH and the absurd amount of survivor-sided maps will carry you decently in a chase.
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I like the mechanics of both.
My only problem with a Scourge Hook is that you can't manually choose where to put the four of them.
Boons are great, love them. The only problem is that COH is the single most oppressive survivor perk atm that soils the entire mechanic.
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They've already mentioned that they have no intentions of changing the boon mechanic. But they don't even need to, the only problematic boon is Circle of Healing.
Shadow Step, Exponential & Dark Theory all require the killer to interact with a survivor inside the boon radius. This provides the opportunity for the killer to deal with it in a few ways. They can either ignore it and commit to the chase, or quickly opt into snuffing it out as the survivor is needing to loop them close to it to get any value. The effects are strong, but a killer can be more attentive against SS and just not slug against Exponential. There's decent counter-play. (DT is trash.)
Circle of Healing is the only boon that doesn't require the killer to be in its radius for it to get any value. You want to set the boon up in a dead zone in a corner of the map, where the killer has no incentive to go and milk the healing. The killer is then put in a lose-lose situation. If they go and snuff it, they're not chasing any survivors or defending generators. If they ignore it, then the survivors are constantly healthy and the killer struggles to apply pressure. And even if they break it, the survivor can just put it back. Even if you put a cool down on the perk or have a totem break when the boon is snuffed out, there are still 5 totems to get through and 3 other survivors who can have the perk. If you're breaking COH up to 5 times, you've already lost.
It's fundamentally broken in design. You can choose to ignore the other 3 boons and not get screwed over by it. But no matter what you do against COH, you lose. Because it's a healing perk of this nature, it's either destined to be oppressive or garbage if you decide to nerf the numbers or change the entire perk.
Just remove it, imo. All the other healing perks in the game are far more interesting and promote altruism and fun gameplay. But they won't remove it because they're stubborn af.
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I've played around 20 games of solo queue tonight and it's been a breeze, what the hell are you on about lmfao
Only lost twice, and it was a Blight both times, easy af otherwise.
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Yes, we need to make the experience for killers even most miserable than it currently is.
Thankfully, the new boon is garbage, but they'll eventually release another that is as broken and ridiculous as COH
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811513#Comment_2811513
Actually I play as nurse, wraith, clown, oni, pinhead, and pyramid head probably more often than others so what's your point then? Get rid of your bullshit excuses then get back with me, people like you wouldn't have made it through 2016-2018 DBD infinites, recovering exhaustion while running, insta heals that could pick someone up to full health from the dying state, BNP that insta popped a gen after like 10 secs of easy skill checks, permanent sabo on hooks and trappers traps , fast vaults from any angle and no entity blocker, dropping down the hole and staying there so the killer gets trapped trying to fall down and taking the game hostage etc... So yea it's absolutely a cake walk these days compared to then
Is it? Have you conveniently forgotten how broken killers were back then as well? 5 blink Nurse? Mori on first hook?
Don't act like killers have been exclusively buffed from then, they've also been nerfed
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@Tiufal said:
So besides the whiny minority in this forum, most killer have no issues playing against those perks. This is just another case of git gud.
You're totally right, I should just snuff the boons out and bait dead hard each and every time. Why did I not think of that!?
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811235#Comment_2811235
tried playing as plague, ended up in red forest where not a single soul cleansed... went back to trickster/nemo soon after.
sadge
But then you play Daddy Trickster/Nemesussy and find yourself playing against the hold W squad of the century
bigger sadge
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She's fundamentally an M1 killer, none of her powers allows her to circumvent a survivors ability to loop her. She relies on hit & run tactics, and pressuring survivors with the TV's and stuff.
Shame hit & run killers are absolute garbage right now, COH just completely renders their existence null & void, as it will do against her.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811254#Comment_2811254
No this image of "Woe is me! Killer is impossible!" Is out of proportion, I've played killer when it was at it's worst possible state this is literally a cake walk compared to those days and yet here people are still crying six years after the games release, when will people admit they have areas to improve on instead of going to an immediate blame game on perks? And that last part is directed at both sides it seems to be the common thing to do is perk shame these days to make themselves feel better about losing.
Let me guess, you play Blight with meta perk and alchemist ring?
Yeah, of course it's a cake walk lmfao - go play Pig or a mid-tier killer against four decent survivors with COH/DH and come back to me.
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Honestly, the whole ''solo queue is a nightmare'' is out of proportion. Ever since SBMM, you have decent teammates and with COH/DH and the other second chance perks you have, it's a breeze.
It's very rare that I legitimately find myself struggling in solo queue, and this image of ''poor us solo queue :( '' is nonsense.
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She's still an M1 killer against survivors who do not cleanse and even though she ignores COH's existence, the presence of DH alone is still enough of a deterrent from me wanting to play her.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2809457#Comment_2809457
This logic doesn’t really apply because what if you down at an unhook and chase after the unhooked survivor?
just bc you down’d someone after, doesn’t mean that it’s a case of not tunnelling
Ah yes, I am tunnelling if I choose to down more than a single survivor, the logic is flawless.
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2809457#Comment_2809457
Bro, if it was 60 seconds, they wouldn't have had Ds.
It also begs the question: what were you doing in those 60s when it was a 1 v 3?
I hooked a Claudette, went to chase another survivor and downed them relatively quickly. Hooked them, went to the other side of the map, downed Claudette (who was actually baiting me) and then went to pick her up.
So it was probably a 59 second Decisive Strike, but regardless, I got hit by an anti-tunnel perk when I did the very opposite of tunnelling.
There's no argument you can make that doesn't agree with this being unfair. You can tell me the Claudette was practically AFK for the minute, or that I should've gotten 6 hooks within those 60 seconds (because apparently a 1v3 for less than a minute is an insta win) but whatever, the case is, DS isn't a true anti-tunnel perk, it can be exploited.
And funny enough, the Claudette's friend did the exact same thing, deliberately didn't do anything so they could hit me with DS, out of spite of tunnelling Claudette after she didn't have DS anymore.
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@liarcy said:
Sure
If we are making it a true anti tunnel perk then it should probably activate twice since you know you can get tunneled twice?
and maybe increase the timer because what?? if you have been chased for 60 seconds after being unhooked you are not being tunneled anymore?
honestly if you still have a problem with ds now maybe it’s your playstyle that you need to change because even if they are healed they still haven’t done anything productive for 60 seconds.
If they legitimately made killers be able to win without having to tunnel in certain situations, then I would be down for this. But otherwise, you'd be basically removing tunnelling from the killers arsenal and force them to hardcore camp to get anything done against efficient survivors.
Could see Leatherface becoming meta tbh
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I had a game the other day where a survivor deliberately didn't do anything for 60 seconds so they could let me down them and hit their Decisive Strike, after I came from the other side of the map, finishing a chase and hooking another survivor before coming back to them.
''But they didn't do anything for 60 seconds!'' - Okay, and? The perk is designed to be an anti-tunnel perk, and I did the very opposite of tunnelling by chasing a different survivor, hooking them, and then coming back to them.
It does need to be changed. Hooking another survivor should immediately deactivate all active DS on the other survivors, because that means YOU aren't tunnelling a specific survivor. But if you try to suggest this, the survivor mains froth at the mouth.
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The experience you have as killer really depends on the killer you're playing, the perks you're using, and the level of survivors you're facing against.
I just played Wraith on RPD (kill me) against a SWF, all four of them had stacked med-kits (purple) with the exact same perk build of Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Unbreakable & Soul Guard.I knew it was a SWF because the second I knocked a med-kit off the first survivor with franklins, the other three dropped their med-kits by a generator before they even saw me, effectively denying me a whole perk slot. Hopefully, it's obvious, but the game was pretty much me sweating to pull a 2k, it was miserable. They had chance after chance, over and over with DH/DS/UB/SG and it's honestly frustrating to see survivors getting away with so much. From their perspective, it was barely a challenge and I doubt they felt as miserable as myself.
If I played a stronger killer, or just had a better map, maybe I could've gotten a 3-4k if I brought the Blight out with meta perks & alchemist ring, but this isn't every game.. but it's not exactly uncommon.
So yeah, play a low-tier killer and you'll face misery. Play a top-tier killer with the strongest stuff in the game? You'll pretty much only be challenged by a powerful SWF.
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If they would remove DH for a week, then kill rates would go up since the average survivor can't loop for more than 5 seconds without it.
At the end of the day, they will prioritise the enjoyment of survivors before killer players, so dead hard, will remain as it is.
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They're a multi-millionaire company, if they wanted to remove perk tiers, they can definitely achieve it so the excuse of ''well the programming is difficult...'' or whatever is nonsense to me.
They simply will not do it because it lessens the grind in this game, and thus, the amount of money they will make people will play the game less. They do not actually care for our experience in this game, merely for their wallets.
That's why.
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The new event isn't actually ''new'' its just existing content recycled under a new visual look and made to fool you into thinking it's a new event.
Red envelopes you can find mid-trial for BP? Oh my, clearly just a Glyph.
Generators/Hooks that give more BPS like usual? Oh wow.
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I would've put Plague in B tier before COH became meta, but with its prevalence, I'd say Plague is probably an A tier killer now. She's one of the few killers who can maintain and apply pressure with health states in this game.
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COH will remain meta and one of the best survivor perks in the game. Taking an additional 8 seconds to heal yourself (16 -> 24) or another 4 seconds to heal another (8 -> 12) means absolutely nothing.
Just to paint how useless this nerf is, in terms of killer time, you get an additional 2 seconds, or 1 second from this. That's it.
The main problem with this perk comes from how it gives the entire team fast and infinite self-heals, and can't be permanently destroyed by the killer. Until this part of the perk is addressed, I refuse to play killer.
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First game, got tunnelled out of the match in 5 minutes by a trapper.
This game is so ######### miserable, you get tunelled/camped as a survivor or gen rushed as a killer, what a fun game.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2752471#Comment_2752471
Because it already takes time to boon a totem. For that to be instantly overwritten because a killer got a hook or the last gen pops, and then to have to re-bless it (which takes even longer than blessing a normal totem). That's why i said no thanks. If there's no dull totems, oh well. That's the risk of bringing a Hex perk.
It's like running deliverance risking that you'll be the first person hooked or that you won't be able to unhook someone and heal them first to get your perk at all. Some perks are just high risk/high reward.
With that same logic, Pyramid Head's power ignoring Decisive Strike and thus, being able to tunnel a survivor even faster out of the game is, ''oh well'' fair?
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If I hear a boon go up, I immediately assume its COH and begin to tunnel and camp every hook to apply pressure since the survivors clearly have banned me from winning the game with 12 hooks anymore.
If I down a survivor close to it, I'll break it, but other than that you have to ignore it, or you lose the game. Well, you lose either way unless you tunnel/camp.
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Clearly its "No UwU big daddy killer please don't hook me I beg please :3"
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Circle of Healing is inherently flawed in its design.
Shadow Step and Exponential are powerful but have fair counter-play, killers can decide to not risk slugging and become more attentive in chase to circumvent the lack of scratch marks or aura readings. Furthermore, these two boons REQUIRE the killer to be within the 24 metre radius for the survivors to become empowered, which gives the opportunity for the killer to quickly snuff it out, especially after a down.
COH in contrast, doesn't need or want the killer to be within the radius. Optimal usage is to place the boon in a corner of the map next to completed generators, pushing the killer into a lose-lose situation where if they go to break it, they lose generator pressure. If they ignore it, every survivor will remain healthy and also kill their ability to pressure the survivors, especially if survivors keep running to the boon. The only time COH doesn't feel extremely oppressive is when a survivor goes down next to it, providing fair chance to break it before hooking, which is funnily enough what SS/Exponential allow you to do by their design.
This is the problem. COH is powerful, but it's oppressive due to how the killer is placed in a massive lose-lose situation. With the other two, this isn't the case, often, the value you get can swing to the survivor or killer depending on the outcome of the interaction within the boon.
But making COH only work if the killer is close to it will completely destroy its viability and everyone will use med-kits again. I don't think this perk can be in a balanced spot, it's either trash or overpowered IMO.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739944#Comment_2739944
If you're playing so well then a DS stun won't do anything to your momentum and you will still win incredibly easily.
It's the principle of it though. We want fair gameplay, so a perk that isn't entirely fair needs to be changed.
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Imagine not tunnelling a survivor, only to be stunned by their anti-tunnel perk because you played too well.
Now imagine if there was a killer equivalent to this, survivor mains would be up in arms, as clear by this thread of ''keep my second-chance perk unfair please''
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Because they're incredibly buggy and clunky to play. To do well with Twins, you need to slug and camp quite a lot, otherwise you'll just be gen rushed since it takes you 20 years to down a singular survivor.
Oh, and COH legitimately makes them trash. You need to keep survivors injured for Victor to get downs, now with COH, Victor will never down anybody because they're always healthy.
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No.
Killers only win at the top if they tunnel, camp and slug as much as possible. And guess who hates those playstyles the most? Survivors lol
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Because it would reveal how many ''top tier'' survivors can't actually loop without their second-chance perk.
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Killers bring meta perks with a top tier killer, and of course, the survivor mains start complaining because it isn't an easy victory. Besides 1-2 perks on your team, every other perk could be considered meta, so you have no right to complain about the killer, to be honest.
Alchemist Ring is the only thing you can argue to be unfair/OP
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736307#Comment_2736307
I mean, technically it would be 9. But that last one wouldn't ever activate.
my dude the Pig is trash because she's an M1 killer, giving her infinite RBT's wouldn't change a thing
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@Adjatha said:
Alternately any of these:
Give her another Reverse Bear Trap every time a generator is finished.
Let her crouch and uncrouch at the speed of survivors (e.g. Instantly)
Give her 8m survivor aura reading while crouched
If a Reverse Bear Trap is removed on the first try, the generator with the most progress is blocked for 30-45 seconds
8 RBT? LMFAO
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Because why put anything but the bare minimum into a product that will continue to do well even if they did absolutely nothing?
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734474#Comment_2734474
i love how people act like once someone does a boon, all of their healing time and other boon placement times do not exist. While 14 seconds alone isn't a lot, you have to account for snuffing the boon and the survivors replacing it, the total amount of time constantly healing, and the time wasted of a survivor choosing to find totems and boon instead of gens while the killer should obviously be pressuring.
If the healing wasn't stacked so hard, CoH wouldn't be busted. If it took 14 seconds to place and then was always a 16 second heal, I think loads of people would be fine with it, and if you aren't then it honestly is a skill issue that you aren't taking advantage of a 30 second time waste.
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if it kept the 100% healing boost, just don't make it stack with medkits. Solo healer is always 16 seconds, duo is 8. Nothing should be faster than an 8 second heal, that is what is busted.
No matter what narrative you try to take, Circle of Healing is busted and is a win for the survivors.
16 seconds to place, 16 seconds to heal, and let's say another 10 seconds to find a totem to bless. 42 seconds to get a single heal from COH.
42 seconds divided by 4 (as there are four survivors, and your time as an individual survivor is only 1/4 important as the killers) is 10.5 seconds.
You spent 10.5 seconds to give yourself, and your entire team infinite med-kits and the ability to destroy any ability for the killer to snowball. How is that fair? Unless a survivor is dumb and goes down next to the boon, it will always take the killer more time to destroy the boon, than it is for the survivors to place it and even use it.
This perk destroys any semblance of killer pressure. Leave it up? Everyone's fully healthy and you're forced to tunnel people as hit and run tactics do not work. Snuff it out? Enjoy giving the survivors an easy victory as even 10-20 seconds of no generator pressure is enough to spiral a game out of control (because once again, 20 seconds x 4 survivors = 80 seconds).
There is no defending this perk.
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I still play the role fairly often, but the enjoyment is going down and I'm getting increasingly frustrated with having to deal with DH/COH every.single.game.
Such uninteractive, boring, overpowered and unfair perks. DH for distance? Yipeee
Try to hit and run? Everyone is fully healed within 20 seconds Yipeee
just cba anymore, I'll tunnel/camp and use NOED as much as I need to now to pull a 4k
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@IronKnight55 said:
Yep. How dare those dirty survivors use perks and items! Hope you enjoy whatever game you decide to play.
Yet if the killer even thinks of camping or tunnelling every survivor main whines lol
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I love NOED.
Seeing a survivor cry, rant, scream and gag at me having this perk as they proceeded to gen rush me is pure bliss. Nothing is more enjoyable than face camping survivors with my NOED totem right next to the hook. Nothing you can do but die.
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It's not ''boons'' that are the problem, it's Circle of Healing. Compared to the other two, it's flawed in design by virtue of not needing the killer to be within its radius to work. The other two need the killer interacting within the boon for the survivors to get value, COH does not, hence the design problem.
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Blight is one of the best designed killers in the game though? Top tier, fun for both sides, takes skill to win with but not without counter-play for the survivors.
Sure, his add-ons can be OP AF and need to be nerfed (Alch ring mainly) but Base Blight is perfect
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@Myla said:
Actually defeats the only way to pressure four individuals in the game lol. You'd get punished for committing and dropping chases. No in between.
Between a majority of the maps being survivor-sided, the existence of DH and now COH.. the developers really want killers to just tunnel every survivor to the death lol
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Ever since I've stopped caring about the fun of the survivors and started to camp/tunnel more or play anti-loop killers like Artist, the amount of DC's I get have gone up drastically.
Guess survivors want easy games?
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I don't blame you, survivor is extremely easy and fun right now with BT/DS/DH/COH and a SWF.
I still play killer because I'm competitive and enjoy a challenge, but it's getting to the point where I've had enough of the role tbh, playing against COH/DH is just mentally draining.
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I love how people think spending 16 seconds blessing a totem is such a massive net gain for the killer.
That is 4 seconds of killer time. You spent 4 seconds of killer time to grant your team with infinite medkits.
lmfao very balanced and fair