Murgleïs
Murgleïs
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@PAntWill said:
Hey, just general opinions.
for record I would say I’m middle/average MMR. Almost 2500 hours across steam & Xbox. I play both K&S - about 40%K, 60%S
I’ve recently noticed a drastic change in the play style and attitudes of the DBD player base and just wanted to know if anyone has also or are you also part of the change and if so, why?
Camping & Tunnelling early game:
this has grown SOOO much. It’s become a regular when I play solo or with friends that 3 out of 5 games (even in a row) that the killer either Camps and tunnels from 5 gens or just hardcore pure tunnel vision tunnels. Even to leave current chase with an injured survivor to cross the map back to the unhooked (I know where they come from because of coms with friends) this is now more than the average game. It’s like it’s the go to strategy. Currently in game there is nothing (let’s be real) that can be done to stop this.
Survivors:
First down = DC or
First Hook = Kill themselves.
this was always somewhat of an issue, NOW it is everywhere in Solo Q. Bots are useless. They can’t even hit hook skillchecks (######### is up with that?!)
both sides have become anti-fun.
For me it’s worse as a Survivor. With all the nerfs over the last 18 months, (K base buffs, DS nerf, dead hard destruction, gen speed nerfs, flashlight nerfs, healing nerfs etc…) plus on top of the rise in C&T it just leads to boring, none rewarding game play.
literally none rewarding. If a killer doesn’t get a 4K, he atleast gets some BP. If a S is camped & tunneled at 5 gens, offerings, items & addons wasted, no BP, depip. Killers are not punished the same for losing so a S still gets the punishment in their actual game not just their gameplay.
Even the recent 7 Anniversary Event. Camping and Tunnelling was almost EVERY MATCH!
My issue and question is that this is not BHVR. This is the player base. I just want to know why? What happened? Does anyone else agree? Have you experienced this or have you also done this? No judgement if you have, just for information I’m curious as to why?
what’s happened?
I stopped reading at "dead hard destruction".
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A quick reminder that a lot of player bought and enjoy playing her.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3521710#Comment_3521710
Get out of the comp mindset. Play dbd for fun. It's so much more enjoyable that way. Also, I don't know who that person is but no need to be rude. Just a game after all.
I do play DBD for fun but also acknowledge that the reason survivors don’t escape is because they don’t really try.
Throwers make the game easy mode for killers, not because the game itself is balanced that way.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3521676#Comment_3521676
Good thing killers have powers and perks and add ons to deal with that. Game can't always be on easy mode for killer. No fun in that. The chase is the most fun part about dbd.
You remind me of Sluzzy with your bad takes.
DBD at the highest level is survivor sided. The only reason killers can perform well in pubs is because of bad matchmaking and throwers (suiciding on hook).
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Average survivor behavior. It doesn’t surprise me at all, I too give kind words to killers in the end game chat.
Most survivors mains I know enjoy to try to taunt and humiliate the killer all game. If they think the killer doesn’t "deserve" the win they DC asap.
"Undeserved" wins would be : playing Nurse, Blight or Spirit, using regression perks, slugging, proxycamping.
DBD is the most toxic community I ever encountered tbh.
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Ask yourself why people are using filters, maybe is it because these maps look atrocious ?
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I wish I could get a refund for this killer.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
They removed flashlight clicking just because people complained it's kinda same thing, when they introduce anti camp mechanic hitting on hook will serve no purpose
It was used to attacked people with disabilities.
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I wish I could get a refund and buy Skull Merchant instead.
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What an hypocrite take when you were the one replying to players, mostly killers saying the game is not fun anymore, that they should get good, spend time training for hours, reviewing their gameplay, learn about comp, ect…
And now you are saying that you don’t have fun anymore sweating ? LOL.
Everything that was fun has been removed in the sake of balance and comp, and you are surprised we end up with a sweaty boring game ?
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She is not a stealth killer. She has a lullaby of 24m.
The fact that you get "caught" in a bad spot, in enough to know that it is a skill issue. She gets destroyed against a good SWF.
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Nurse, the queen, the only.
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@Shroompy said:
It seems like a dumb rule al though it makes sense
There have been several bugs through out the years that have only affected one Survivor in particular. Most recent one being Leon and aiming a FL being lower than normal.
Other notable examples being Ace being almost completely silent upon release (yes even quieter than he is now) and also several cosmetic glitches affecting only some Survivors. (Nea having a tail no matter what shirt you were wearing is one that comes to mind)
Bugs like these are more than likely going to happen on new Survivors for obvious reasons, and its better safe than sorry
This !
This rule is important in case of major bugs being abused and unknown to the majority of players.
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@Pulsar said:
So you've played against a total of 2 regression perks with a couple of horrid Killers (Pig and Chase Merchant) and two decent Killers who didn't use gen regression (Wraith and Singularity).
Alright
Average DBD killer.
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They don’t want you to feel you have to play these perks if you want bloodpoints.
Personally, I was playing both of these perks (and We are going to live forever) only for bloodpoints.
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@Pulsar said:
We can revert Self-Care.
This would impact everyone but Wesker. I wonder why you don’t care.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486299#Comment_3486299
There is counter for DS: DON'T TUNNEL.
It's really so easy.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486295#Comment_3486295
Like you said to me before, OtR should be like MoM. It should have different Endurance effect. So killer can't steal it from you with early hit.
Back in the day I was not tunneling and had time to hook another survivor and still eat a DS.
It was mostly used offensively.
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Sure, let’s remove it for everyone. Including killers.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485957#Comment_3485957
They are replaced by a bot, which is effectively the same a backfilled player.
A bot is not a player.
Also it’s funny you say DBD is not a comp game but love to bring about your comp Wesker experience all the time.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485225#Comment_3485225
That doesn't change the reality of most games.
The reality is that tryhards tends to play killers, especially when it’s not a m1 killer. Survivors players are more chill, casuals and goofy. You need 4 tryhards survivors to compete with 1 tryhard killer.
Now put soloQ into the mix and it’s easy to understand why the kill rates don’t make any sense whatsoever.
If you think that’s fine balancing for casuals with a broken MMR it is because you don’t play any competitive games. In any comp game you have a separate queue with harsher rules :
- queues are longer to get more balanced matches. Usually you can play while waiting.
- you see your own skill rating and get rewards the higher it is
- DC penalty is harsh : you lose SR and get a big temporary ban. Repeat it and you will end up banned for good. You can also be banned for obvious throwing by your teamates, that includes being AFK.
I am all for a comp queue and a leaderboard for each killer + survivor leaderboard but my guess is that the game is too old for them to implement this. Also it would be unpopular, remember these 8000h streamers complaining about games being too sweaty when the SBMMR was introduced ?
So instead we end up with a tournament setting outside the game with tons of bans on the survivor side to give a chance to killers, and a live game with a broken MMR with survivors throwing by suiciding or doing useless challenges and giving the illusion of balanced stats.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485166#Comment_3485166
The matchmaking system was designed to force a 40% escape-rate for survivors (not a win-rate, which would be 3 to 4 survivors escaping 40% of the time).
Escapes are only calculated based on escapes through the exit gate, hatches do not count and games with DCs do not count.
Tons of games are lost because of suicides (not DC) and throwers (opening chest to complete a challenge instead of repairing…). So the kill rate is very inflated. When survivors are good (vs a good killer) they will escape against everyone except maybe nurse or blight.
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If a perk is "feared" it is because it is broken :
- old dead hard
- old eruption
- old DS
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Give me my unlimited tinkerer back.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
When the killer dc’s, the match just ends. Survivors can move on, and take the spoils.
When a survivor dc’s, especially early on, the game just drags. If the killer isn’t merciful, it’s a guaranteed loss.
There’s a clear difference here.
Then end the game for everyone early on when a survivor DC and increase the penalty.
The game is going to be even longer with the new bots. Now survivors will be expected to try with bots and killers to chase and hooks them.
@Annso_x said:
Survivors bots are basically 1 bot with different cosmetics.
To make killer bots you'd have to make 31 (and counting) different bots. And some killer powers would probably be very difficult to implement.
That’s actually a good point.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3484324#Comment_3484324
I don't know how pc nurses do it but they hold to blink far away but then cancel it of you run closer to them. They can do it instant without looking down. Nurse pc flicks should be removed and then give range back. On console you just have to quess what survivor most likely gonna do and blink to that position. That how she is playable for me.
Fatigue cancel tech
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@Dogma_loki said:
The vast majority of killer mains play DBD because they suck at other PVP games and like the one sided experience BHVR enables.
That’s an interesting take tbh. Especially for tryhards.
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You don’t need any perk to win as survivor. Most of the survivor strength is basekit. Especially in pubs. The same way you don’t need 4 slowdowns to win in pubs as Killer if you are good.
The only perk having a real impact in a match as soloQ survivor is maybe Deliverance imho.
If you want consistent wins you need SWF. That’s the reality of the game balance. Solo Q = potatoes.
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@hexmexbot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/383733/killer-meta-is-so-boring-atm
Illogical killer stats are more than 60 percent therefore all killers are viable
60% against potatoes doing their totem challenge, clicking all game, not trying to win, not even counting the suicides boosting the rates.
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There was variety :
- ruin / undying
- pain (consistent) + dms
- noed with endgame
- thana
- eruption
- call of brine
- overcharge
- franklin with killer belongings
Everything got nerfed. I don’t even know what to play Pentimento with, outside Devour because hexes are not that good anymore.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483150#Comment_3483150
Trickster I've warmed up to.
The game would be better without SM. No Killer has ever been this hated, not even original Legion.
Survivors in game are not hating SM. The forum survivor mains are mostly complaining.
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Wesker main strengh is tunneling thanks to the infection.
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@JdoHybrid428 said:
Ok so in simplest terms I think the overall idea and direction of those chances are really cool but the balance is way too strong. They would have to be adjusted/tested heavily and probably have all of the perk affects tomed down significantly, and lots of testing done. Like I said tho, that's such a cool idea.
Thanks for the feedback, I know these changes seem like a huge buff for boons but imho, none of these boons would truly help SWF that much, with the exception of Exponential (but a good killer would notice the boon in the first place with the new cues so there is counterplay).
Any tier 1 or 2 of my changes are nice little additions to the base effect but nothing huge, simply because it’s not that hard to get 2 tokens (permanent) with my Clairvoyance + Overzealous. Both of these perks are also nice for solo and beginners because they promote a healthy playstyle giving aura reading without the need the use items (Clairvoyance) and gen progress without being broken (Overzealous).
To get 3 tokens and have access to the "ultimate boon", you need either to
- spend time repairing with Visionary or break a totem with Inner healing, both of these perks consume tokens which is balanced imho because it’s only 2 perks slot overall : boon + Visionnary or Inner healing leaving room for exhaustion / survival perks
- get your team to cleanse 3 totems and have Small Game leaving only 2 totems to be blessed (you get 3 permanent tokens but less choice to boon)
- or have 4 boons equipped, you can bless right at the start of the trial to tier 3 but it’s random.
So it feels balanced imho for how much work is needed for each tier. I was thinking about a new iri addon for the map item that would give a free +1 token to blessing but that would be unbalanced lol.
Now on the strong part of each boon (3 tokens), is it really that strong ? Giving Bond, Quick & Quiet, Tenacity or Any Means Necessary (even with the other cumulative buffs for each boon) to everyone without range is not really game changing because you have to use either a lot of time or your own perk slots to get there anyway. It’s completely different that allowing everyone to self heal for exemple for a single perk slot out of 16.
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
I have a much simpler solution to the boons
Killer basekit: Killers can now permanently break boon totems that has stayed active for at least 40 seconds, and reveal the aura of any Survivor within the Boon's range. - Basically making Shattered Hope basekit. This would encourage killers to actually break the totem. The killer can replace the broken totem if they have Hex: Pentimento, but that will also allow Survivors to bless it again.
Boon: Circle of Healing - Allows Survivors to heal each other 100% faster, and themselves at normal speed. Grants a +100% bonus to Survival or Altruism bloodpoints depending on the healing action done. - Does not apply to med-kits.
Boon: Shadow Step - Survivors within the range of this boon will not leave scratch marks, blood pools, or grunts of pain while this Boon's effect is active. Additionally, all aura reading is blocked.
Boon: Exponential - Survivors can fully recover from the Dying state, and they recover 150% faster. Crawling speed is increased by 50%
Boon: Dark Theory - Survivors gain a 5% Haste status while inside this boon's range. Additionally, generator repair speed is increased by 15%
Not only does this makes the boons stronger, since the added risk of the totems being destroyed must have a counterbalance to it, but now the killers are able to permamently disable totems, prompting survivors to boon another, or just leave it be.
My problem to giving a flat buff for each boon perk is how they can stack on a single totem currently.
So you either have to balance with the idea that you can stack them and each boon perk has to be underwhelming on its own or you set up a boon limit.
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Why, why…WHY ? I just want to have some fun and play against singularity. Let me blast a 10km EMP radius and contemplate the despair in that little robot eyes as I disable his pods for 25 years.
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@Pulsar said:
Honestly, I'm fine with it. Should it be improved? yeah.
Is it vastly preferable to letting the actual toxic cesspit of the community have free reign? Yup.
I just want to speak French or German. Thanks.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481475#Comment_3481475
There was a tournament with no restrictions not too long ago.
Killers did fine.
You aren't facing anything close to comp teams in pubs. If you think you are, you need more experience.
You are also not experiencing comp killer in pubs.
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It’s party game. The community doesn’t care about these stats of players having no real job outside streaming 10 hours a day playing DBD killer or survivor.
It’s so sad you still don’t get it Pulsar. I had a friend who was like that playing survivor, watching "comp" (Eternal) and going for escape streaks until he got hooked on a REAL competitive game (League of Legends) and finally understood :
DBD is :
- RNG
- Stupid strats : gen rushing, tunneling
- Unbalanced mess
- Tons of bugs, spaghetti code
This game should aim for fun and that’s it. Like playing The Sims. So yes, these stats are meaningless, especially when players are NOT having fun doesn’t matter which role. Yes, that includes survivors.
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It’s a strat (knock out + slugging). Also, not hooking you at the end prevents 4% attempts.
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@Pulsar said:
The PT nerf is just...weird.
It definitely feels like a response to complaining about the perk from people who didn't understand it.
PT is good for me as a Killer. It means people aren't being efficient.
Also, removing the BP bonus is just dumb lol
It’s funny you think it’s weird when it’s about survivors perks. I agree PT nerf is dumb, so we’re Ruin and DMS nerfs.
It’s time you realize devs are destroying the game by listening to people who complain the loudest.
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@crogers271 said:
As others have said, killers are different.
One other issue though is that most of the 'survivor' sided maps (the big ones) are just really hard for new players as well on both sides. The first time I played Saloon it was like 'great, I know where everything is' within a really short period of time. So addressing the bigger maps also makes those maps easier for newer players.
This is actually a good point. I remember how lost I was on big maps when I started the game. Felix was my main for Visionary, even if my friends made fun of me for that lol.
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@Roaroftime said:
It is very much the case, take decisive strike and spine chill for example. The drop in usage in any nerfed killer perk is nothing compared to the survivor ones. Again with the incorrect assumptions..? (Average killer main jumping to conclusions and putting words in a casual survivor players mouth) What I want is equal nerfs on both sides.
You had OTR (better DS) and basekit HUD (better spin chill and basekit). If anything that’s a huge buff.
The killer meta is narrow because they nuked almost everything. Meanwhile you can run perk roulette on survivor and have a good match.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474736#Comment_3474736
Okay?
That doesn't change anything. The escape rate was still 39% and was likely even lower in actuality. They didn't count DC's which happen often.
I said suicides not DC. 1 suicide (giving on hook or running at the killer to die) = the whole team dead = free 4k for the killer.
When survivors at the same skill of the killer are not throwing and actually trying to escape, they do most of the time.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3474573#Comment_3474573
The game isn't heavily Survivor-sided.
The game cannot be Survivor-sided with Survivors having a measly 39% escape rate.
Suicides.
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Don’t forget the HUD removing any kind of surprise or uneasiness.
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
All the Sadako mains that were crutching on slugging will have to move over to Skull Merchant or something. The REAL skilled Onryo players won't even notice these nerfs!
They removed any kind of skill this killer had. It’s all automatic and passive now.
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I like her uniqueness and design (skins and sounds).
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@Eelanos said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QPHNANFV1REI/sammich.jpg
Me using Killer to farm BP at 3 times the speed of my Survivor matches since 6.1.0, running around with jolt + whatever random perk my killer has available at the time, only to open the forums and read this nonsense.
My guy, if anything, I agree killer isn't fun because survivors just drop dead seconds after you find them. I can count with the fingers of both my hands the times I got obliterated by survivors, and two of these times were my fault because I gave kindness to those who didn't deserve it. And I play with the most suboptimal stuff you can imagine because I can't be bothered to stress over unlocking killer stuff.
Go play a couple of matches of survivor soloq and come back to tell me if you've figured out the true meaning of despair.
OP just said they don’t have fun playing killer anymore because of matchmaking you don’t have to make it all about yourself.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468465#Comment_3468465
That doesn’t even sound close to being true.
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468465#Comment_3468465
Survivors aren't the ones complaining lol this forum is full of killers complaining that they go against sweaty swfs apparently every single game and frequently requesting survivor nerfs as a result. Killers also have the option to lobby shop, survivors don't. It's more likely that this killer dodges certain lobbies until they find easier ones. And I feel comfortable saying this because you can search for past discussions on this forum regarding lobby dodging and see for yourself how popular it is. BHVR don't need to mess with SBMM, they have killers messing with it enough.
Both sides were complaining and that’s they did MMR tests for a week and made some changes afterwards.
@Peanits said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B9SDLMUAF5CG/mm-test-results.png
Over the past few weeks, we’ve run a series of short matchmaking tests based on various feedback we’ve received. These ranged from making the matchmaker faster, stricter, various combinations in between, and yes, even disabling Skill Based Matchmaking and reverting to the old Grade Based Matchmaking.
We want to start by thanking everyone who took the time to share their thoughts about each of the tests. While we’re able to track things like queue times behind the scenes, your feedback is invaluable when it comes to finding extraordinary cases and for getting an idea of how these changes feel rather than how they perform. Thank you!
We’ve kept the details of the tests a secret until now as to not influence feedback, but since the tests are over, we’re ready to dive in and share some details on what was tested. But first, we need to explain what each of the changes mean.
Fair warning, this is going to be a long and very technical one!
Variables
We have a bunch of settings which we can tweak behind the scenes. Here’s a quick rundown on the ones we changed during the tests.
The first is maximum range. When you search for a match, we try to find other players who are close to your rating (within 50 points). If we aren’t able to do so, the search gradually expands until we’re able to find you a match. By default, this is set to 500 points away from your own rating. This is so you’re guaranteed to get a match after waiting a while, though it may not be the fairest.
The second is expansion time. This is how long it takes to reach the maximum range. By default, this is set to 5 minutes.
Then we have a few switches we can toggle. These are:
Bidirectional matchmaking: Normally once one player has been waiting long enough, other players can be pulled into their match (as long as they’re within the maximum range). Bidirectional matchmaking requires both players to have expanded enough to encompass each other for them to be pulled into the same match. By default, this is off.
If this sounds confusing, don’t worry, it’s complicated. Here’s a little chart to clear things up:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6C9DPL3ANQZK/bidirectional.png
Each player’s actual rating is shown in red, and their current matchmaking search is shown in blue.
- In Example 1, Player A’s search has expanded to cover Player B, but Player B has not yet expanded to cover Player A, so they won’t be matched together.
- In Example 2, both players have expanded enough to cover each other, so they can now be matched together.
- When we use the default (unidirectional) matchmaking, both examples would be eligible for a match.
Grade visibility: This one’s nice and simple. We can switch off grades in the post-match screen since they typically aren’t used for matchmaking. This doesn’t actually have an effect, but we were curious to see how people feel about it and how it affects their perception of matchmaking.
Grade Based Matchmaking: We can switch off Skill Based Matchmaking entirely and instead use Grades for matchmaking. For folks who joined us recently, this is roughly how the matchmaking worked before the introduction of Skill Based Matchmaking.
The Tests
And now, the part you’ve been waiting for: Just what exactly was tested each day? We’ll also share our expectations and how they matched up to the results. Quick disclaimer: We’ll be talking a lot about averages in this section. If this doesn’t line up with your experiences, don’t worry, we’re aware that things can vary depending on a bunch of different factors (time, region, role, rating, etc.).
For the first three tests, we did not expect much of an improvement. These three were meant to test individual variables and see the effect they have on matchmaking. Afterwards, we started to mix these variables to see the impact they would have together.
March 28
Test:
- Expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes)
Expectation: Faster matches, particularly for players in off-peak times, though the quality of matches would be lower.
Results: As expected, wait times dropped significantly across the board (faster than any other day), especially for the players on the extreme ends of the rating spectrum. The quality of matches on average did not change a whole lot, though some players may have noticed a larger gap in skill levels.
Kill rates noticeably changed on the ends of the spectrum, with high rated Killers becoming more deadly and low rated Killers having a harder time. This is likely due to players on the ends of the spectrum being paired with more players from the middle.
March 29
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 250 (from 500)
Expectation: Slower matches, especially for players with extraordinarily high/low ratings and/or in off-peak hours, but higher quality matches in general.
Results: Like we predicted, wait times did increase for players on either end of the spectrum, although players in the middle did not have a noticeable impact on matchmaking times (on average). Overall, this test only slightly reduced the average rating difference compared to a non-test day, though curiously, players on the far ends of the spectrum may have seen an increase.
March 30
Test:
- Enable bidirectional matchmaking
Expectation: Longer queue times for players in off-peak hours & players at the extreme end of the rating spectrum, but fairer matches for players that get matched quickly.
Results: Longer queue times were an understatement; some players were experiencing exceptionally long queue times (15 minutes+). This is because there weren’t enough players to match them against in their region & skill level at the time they were playing, and players who were ‘close enough’ to their skill level would not get matched with them unless they also were unable to find a match.
This is longer than we’d ever like anyone to wait. To play it safe, we cut this test short and altered it a few hours in. A hard cap was added to switch back to the default unidirectional matchmaking after someone had been waiting for 5 minutes. This cap was used for all future tests where bidirectional matchmaking was used.
Of all the tests, this one reduced the average rating difference the most, cutting it by roughly a third. However, the long queue times make this a fairly unappealing solution.
March 31
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 250 (from 500), expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes)
Expectation: Players who already get quick matches may notice a slight drop in quality, but players on the far ends may find matches quicker. On the other hand, the lowered range may limit the pool of players to match with on the far ends of the rating spectrum.
Results: Queue times for Survivors were faster across the board, but Killer queue times had no noticeable difference. In terms of kill rates, on the mid-high end of skill groups, kill rates dropped slightly (closer to 50%) while the lower groups remained mostly the same. This test also earned the second biggest reduction in average rating difference of all the tests.
April 4
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 350 (from 500), expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes), enable bidirectional matchmaking
Expectation: Matchmaking may be slower for some players, but the quality of matches should be improved.
Results: Survivor queue times were faster across the board, while Killer queue times remained mostly the same (with the exception on the far low end of skill ratings). Kill rates, meanwhile, climbed slightly at the highest skill levels and remained mostly unchanged at the lower end. The average rating difference didn’t decrease noticeably with this test.
April 7
Test:
- Maximum range decreased to 350 (from 500), expansion time decreased to 1 minute (from 5 minutes), enable bidirectional matchmaking, grades hidden
Expectation: More or less the same results as the previous test, as all the variables are the same.
Results: We were curious to see what kind of impact hiding grades would have on the feedback we received, since grades are no longer used for matchmaking (though they can give the impression that they’re a measure of skill). For this test, we ran all the same variables, only we hid grades as well. This way we could compare feedback to the previous test to see how grades affected the sentiment.
To our surprise, the overall feedback appeared slightly more positive with grades hidden. When directly comparing opinions from folks who left feedback on both the April 4th & 7th tests, we discovered that the feedback was usually the same if not better when grades were hidden. We opted to leave grades hidden over the weekend.
April 11 - 12
Test:
- Switch to Grade Based Matchmaking
- (April 12th only: Show grades)
These tests were added later as we started to see more speculation about the tests. Occasionally someone would predict that one of the things we were testing was the old matchmaking system, and we figured hey, why not give it a shot?
Expectation: Matches would have a lot more variety in player skill, very similar to the old Rank Based Matchmaking. We also expected to see the average grade difference to fall dramatically.
Result: As we suspected, reports of one-sided matches started flooding in. We can also confirm this on our end; the average kill rates for this day saw the most dramatic change yet, with the highest skill levels rocketing up to roughly 80% (>3 kills per match on average) and plummeting to around 20% (<1 kill per match on average) on the lower end of the spectrum. The average grade difference, however, decreased significantly, as expected.
Now to be clear, this is not quite the same as the old Rank Based Matchmaking. For starters, grades reset all the way back to Bronze I while ranks only reset one colour tier, and it’s not possible to lose grades anymore. We wanted to give it a fair shot, so we specifically set this test as close to the grade reset as possible to give people the largest window to settle into their grades. (This is also why the last day was cut short: We didn’t want to leave the test running over the grade reset since that would have everyone matches against anyone.)
Furthermore, a 1-2 day test is not the same as leaving it on for an extended period of time. Given more time (and the ability to lose grades), we expect that people facing far too difficult opponents would eventually have their grades drop to a place where they’re more comfortable, while folks who are consistently overperforming would climb.
Ultimately, though, this highlights a big issue with using grades (or ranks) for matchmaking: A very experienced player who just hasn’t played a lot lately can very easily be paired against players that are new to the game. As we’ve learned in the past, grades/ranks are a stronger indicator of playtime than skill.
This test was very polarizing, but interestingly, we started to see more positive feedback when we started showing grades again. This indicates that there’s definitely a strong connection between seeing grades in the post match screen and the sentiment about a match.
Learnings
We’ve learned that the strictness of the matchmaking and the quality of the matches is without a doubt linked. Looser conditions had a notable effect on kill rates, opponent variety, and also the feedback we received. While the larger variety in opponents was appreciated by some, there was an opposite reaction from others who were now struggling in tougher matches. Simply put, on the other side of any casual match- where one player can win without trying- is a person who’s having a bad time despite trying their best.
On the other hand, the inverse is also true. Stricter matchmaking brought the kill rates closer to the middle, but many found the matches to be too competitive to enjoy. While folks in the lower groups of skill rating would have fewer unfair matches, the higher end of skill groups ended up in tough matches filled with meta perks & Killers.
These tests overall highlighted two distinct groups:
- High skill players who want more variety in their matches
- Lower-mid skill players who, understandably, don’t want to get destroyed by high skill players
The biggest takeaway here is that going too far either way is never a one-size-fits-all solution. What we’d often notice is how some players loved a particular test because they were seeing more variety in their opponents, but at the same time, those same tests were also frustrating to a lot of people who were suddenly getting matched with people way better than them. Neither person is wrong in this scenario: Each of them just expects something different from matchmaking.
Lastly, we have discovered that hiding grades on the post-match screen definitely influences the feedback we receive. We suspect this is for two reasons: 1) Long time players who may have missed the matchmaking changes could still thinking that grades are used for matchmaking. And 2) Some players still feel like grades are an indicator of skill in spite of not being used for matchmaking. Most importantly, however, we found that there was a lot of support for hiding grades, so this is something we’ll be considering as a permanent change going forward.
Next Steps
With all these learnings in mind, we have a solution that will improve matchmaking for both groups of players. We will be making the following changes shortly:
- Reducing the maximum range
- Reducing the expansion time proportionally (so it’s no faster or slower than before)
- Lowering the effective cap for skill ratings
- Removing grades from the post-match screen for the foreseeable future
Why these changes?
As mentioned in the learnings, we found two dominant groups:
- High skill players who want more variety
- Lower-mid skill players who want even matches
In order to make both groups happy, we first need to isolate them from each other. To do this, we’ll reduce the maximum expansion range. This will help keep players of similar skill levels together, reducing the number of one-sided matches. The majority of players fall in the middle of the spectrum, so there is still plenty of people to match with. Additionally, since it seems like the expansion is happening at a good rate, we’ll be adjusting the expansion time proportionally.
Next, we need to consider how this will affect the high skill group. Reducing the range would mean less variety. Fortunately, we have another variable to tweak that solves this issue perfectly. For the purposes of matchmaking, we have a “cap” for skill ratings. Although your rating can continue to climb beyond this cap, you’ll be treated as if you’re at the cap for the purposes of matchmaking. This is in place to prevent the best players out there from climbing to a point where there’s simply nobody to match with.
By lowering this cap, we’re able to expand the pool of players in high skill matches, leading to more variety in the opponents you face. One match may be very close and competitive, but the next may be a little more laid back. This will also ensure that queue times don’t grow longer at higher skill levels.
Lastly, we’ll be removing grades from the post match screen. When we originally hid grades during the test, we saw a lot of people asking for this to be made permanent. Additionally, long time players who may have missed the news could often think that grades were still used for matchmaking, leading them to feel like the match was less fair than it actually was. These, combined with the generally more positive feedback during the tests while they were disabled, were enough of a reason for us to disable them for the foreseeable future.
For the future, we’re still hard at work implementing various improvements to the matchmaking system. These include making Survivor ratings team based rather than personal (so dying heroically to save everyone else isn’t as punishing) and improvements to backfilling lobbies to prevent players from outside of the acceptable range from being pulled in. These improvements will take longer to implement, but rest assured, work is already underway on them. You can find a full list of changes we’re looking into in our January Developer Update.
Once again, we want to thank everyone who took the time to leave feedback throughout the tests. Understanding not just how the matchmaker performs, but also how it feels is incredibly important for us to make improvements. As always, we’ll be keeping a close eye on the matchmaking system moving forward and making small adjustments as necessary. Please keep the feedback coming!
The Dead by Daylight team
« One match may be very close and competitive, but the next may be a little more laid back. »
Laid back for that Blight.
So from my understanding they lowered the MMR cap, this Blight was probably at the cap already. If it’s late night and he is struggling to find a match then low cap + waiting time = match with you.
Anyways you guys have to understand that the matchmaking in this game is a joke. Even in competitive games, matchmaking can be lacking but DBD is not even competitive. People want to have fun and being efficient (tunneling, camping, genrushing) is not considered fun for a lot of players so stats and outcomes are not even close to what they should be. Let’s say this Blight is farming and letting survivors leave after 2 kills to be nice then his MMR is average when he should be higher. That’s just an exemple.
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So the top MMR survivors were complaining about having sweaty games all the time so they made the matchmaking giving more relaxed games for them sometimes…and harder games for you. Now the Blight they were supposed to get matched with is in your lobby.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468295#Comment_3468295
You are wrong. Nurse is still topic for nerfs. We still ask full rework for her because non of nerfs will make her fair. Just give her different power.
So you are wrong, we did not skip Nurse yet.
Oh I 100% agree with you. That’s why I said full circle, I implied the cycle was going to start again because it doesn’t matter how they nerf Blight (Or Nurse or any strong killer) it will never be enough considering their core power allows them to end chase fast. You could delete all of nurse addons and prevent her to use any perks at all : a lot of players would still be able to get massive winstreaks with her.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3468315#Comment_3468315
In my 6K hours, I did manage to figure that out.
Misplays on both sides also used to be far less punishing.
If you can’t accept the state of tunneling and proxycamping at "high level" you won’t have much fun on any side, except if you play chill without caring about the outcome.