Munqaxus
Munqaxus
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2632850#Comment_2632850
This can´t be a perfect game. As a normal high rank game consists of killer getting his first hook by the time 3 gens are completed (not a particular long chase). 120 seconds on the hook is more than enough time for the other 3 survivors to complete 2 gens and open the gate.
A perfect game would be 5 gens by the time the killer gets the first hook.
I mean from an anti-camping perspective. The 1st survivor went down immediately. Which is understandable, you happen to spawn close to a Leatherface in the open, you are kind of screwed.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2632833#Comment_2632833
You really think they would make a perk that wouldn't let some of the cast use their powers?
Well, as a developer, you kind of paint yourself into a corner when you create Killers who have powers where the best thing you can do against them is run in a straight line. There's no interactivity at all between those killers and players. It's boring game play.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631954#Comment_2631954
It only works for a small amount of killers and gives the other 3 survivors free escapes.
It gives, maybe 2 survivors maybe a free escape. A facecamper can get 2 survivors before a gate is powered and can start going after a 3rd.
I played a perfect game against a face camper and he still got 3 survivors. 1st person went down by a Bubba, with that person having Kindred. Bubba carried the survivor to the basement. The other 3 were in a SWF. One had Prove Thyself and 1 had a toolbox. We immediately starting doing gens right at the beginning of the match and didn't attempt to save the survivor. Bubba came out of the basement and got a second person and face camped them to death. We completed all the gens as the 2nd survivor died to face-camping. Bubba managed to get one of us as we were powering the gens. Only 1 person escaped.
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@SmarulKusia said:
The last four killers that have been released, have all had a focus on anti-looping and range. The two killers before Twins also have anti-looping and range.
But with each release, the powers are tweaked a little, to give some glitz and glam, but it's copy and paste.
Playing against most of these killers is either frustrating, annoying, or feels disconnected from what DBD is meant to feel like considering that these killers can ignore or overlook what survivors have traditionally as their protection (aka pallets/windows/vaults).
Survivors need some active and in-game counterplay, and no, Boons are not the answer on making the game feel more interactive.
Maybe a perk that prevents special abilities from going through walls and windows. Because that's really most of the problem with the hold "w" meta. It's better to run in a straight line from certain killers. You have Nemesis, Pyramid Head, Nurse, Cenobite and the New Killer where they completely ignore loops.
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@Kalinikta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629267#Comment_2629267
May I remind you of the subject, as I am very aware of that fact:
"FOR ALL THOSE SURVIVORS THAT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH CAMPING AND TUNNELING, I CHALLENGE YOU!"
I have a major issue with camping and proxy-tunneling as survivor, because it completely prevents you from playing the game as survivor.
When I play Killer, I will not face-camp and proxy-tunnel at 5 gens because it's much worse than some survivor t-bagging at the gate, which I could care less about. If I'm down to 1 gen and 4 survivors, then sometimes, I will sort-of proxy-camp, but not even really then.
I'm the exact person you put this challenge to and I do it every time I play killer. I don't get butt-hurt about someone teabagging at the gate. In fact, it actually makes me giggle inside a bit because it doesn't bother me. If survivors are clicky-clicking flashlights, I ignore them.
And you know something, I have far less survivors teabagging at the gate than I have Killers face-camping and proxy-tunneling me when I play survivor. Isn't that crazy that out of 5 players, 4 players tend to be less rude to me than 1 player is.
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@Kalinikta said:
The challenge is simple:
- Pick a killer
- Play the killer
- Play nicely, never camp, never tunnel
See how survivors respond... every time I start playing the game I try and the result is always the same; Gens fly, survivors click away, tea bag and without failure gather up in the exit gate and wait till the very last moment to leave... because winning alone isn't enough, they need to tea bag at the exit gate or spam you with sound notifications if you don't show up.
That's how I play and I have fun playing like that.
Then again, my ego isn't so inflated that someone squatting at the exit gate with a dress-up doll, sends me into a blind rage either.
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@Shroompy said:
I mean, ok
they've said they're probably gonna add a way to separate competitive and casual players, so they'll probably add a ranked and casual mode
there, you wont have MMR
I guarantee that no survivors are going to play on Casual, with no MMR. LOL
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@Vampwire said:
They give you distance for very little investment. But they're also the most fun of the survivor perks to use. You really can't balance them without gutting the perks, yet if the game wants to achieve good balance it's necessary. And I'm not saying this as "argghhh those damn survivor mains and their perks!" because there are many unbalanced killer perks as well. Regardless, 2 of the strongest ones are Dead Hard and Sprint burst. But why?
Dead hard not only gives you the ability to dodge hits, but it gives you a small amount of distance whenever you want to use it. Of course this only works if you're injured but forcing an M1 isn't too hard if you're going against a killer with an instadown or such. It's best used for distance and the dodging is only a plus. It allows you to get greedy with pallet loops or make up distance that you would need to reach said pallet/window. It sucks in the open though because good killers will scare you into the dead hard then smack you.
Sprint Burst can deny the killer a hit and easily let you reposition in seconds. That means if you're doing a gen in a dead zone you're safe as long as you have sprint burst ready. Downside is that you use it instantly upon sprinting. Which is good somewhat. It'd be infinitely more busted if you could do it on demand without 99ing your exhaustion or similar.
Even if the rest aren't very good, they're still better than no exhaustion perks. And it seems like a lot of the game is band-aid fixed by these perks. Such as the Sprint Burst example. A generator in a dead zone is usually that way because of the tile spawns. So the natural solution for these situations is just "run Sprint Burst". It would be infinitely better if we just had consistent tile spawns, but instead of addressing the issue we just have to run a perk or get punished for not having it. The worse ones fill more niche roles, but they still reflect this design philosophy. Hate the fall stagger? Run Balanced Landing. Hate being stuck at a single loop? Run Lithe. Hate life? Use Head on.
They're really a highlight of bigger design issues more than anything. Bhvr's refusal to update core game mechanics and band-aid fix things with perks is catching up with them. And soon they won't be able to ignore it and have to do even more work than before to climb out of the hole they've dug for themselves.
If we want perks to be balanced first we must have the game mechanics balanced. It doesn't work the opposite way. The opposite way only robs players of dealing with the unbalanced nature of the game and worsens the initial issues.
Exhaustion perks are to survivors like gen slowdown perks are to killers. The game was designed around both. You can't really nerf gen slowdown perks without slowing down gens. You can't nerf exhaustion perks without slowing down killers.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2625280#Comment_2625280
I didn’t say there shouldn’t be. Survivors now have two solid aura blocking options with the introduction of Shadow Step. But I don’t take kindly to the concept of perks hard stopping things. Boons can be snuffed, but Distortion needs the token limitation to not have a powerful effect all game with no downside.
How do you buff Distortion while keeping it balanced? I don’t think regaining or adding tokens is the way to go.
What's the 2nd solid aura blocking perk, besides Shadow Step? Distortion definitely isn't a solid aura blocking perk, especially when you compare it to Shadow Step, which always works, blocks auras for all survivors and also always hides scratch marks.
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@GoshJosh said:
I’m not really sure you can change Distortion without breaking it. Infinite aura blocking is very powerful. You’re negating a host of killer perks (and add-ons) with just one of yours. That’s why there’s a lot of complaints about Shadow Step.
Why shouldn't there be anti-aura reading survivor perks? There's a whole host of Killer aura reading perk, so there's a massive void that can be filled. Obviously the Developers are already looking into the proliferation of aura reading perks on the Killer side with practically nothing on the survivor side. Distortion could definitely use a buff so it can feel that need.
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@Seraphar said:
Every rank they are there. Penalize someone who hooks survivors and stands there or attempts to be nonchalant by moving in a 3 foot area around the hooked survivor. Heres an idea:
if a killer wants to play that way: Give the other survivors working generators a speed increase to repairing the generators the longer a killer hangs out at/around a hooked survivor.
For the love of Cthulhu!
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@Mister_xD said:
Hey all!
in case you've missed it, i've made a Poll the other day about whether the community likes or dislikes the MMR system in order to see how the view of the community has changed (or not changed) between the latest MMR test run (with MMR being a rather controversial topic) and now after its full release.
as of right now, it is quite clear that there is a rather big dislike for the MMR system (of course my poll cant speak for the whole community, but thats the trend i have been noticing with, at this point in time, 70% of people saying they dislike it)
however, this post isnt for those people. This is for the 25% that did say they liked it, because i have a genuine question to you.
So if you dislike the MMR system, you do not need to bother with replying. This isnt meant to be a discussion to determine whether someone is right or wrong, whether the MMR system is good or not - we already have plenty of those. This is just me asking a question, hoping to get some more elaboration on the topic.
enough of that, lets get on with the question:
the most common response i saw from people who said they think "MMR is a good addition to DbD" was, that, while they do not think it is a perfect system yet, they do view it as a better system than the old Emblem system was.
Now my question to you is:
what makes you say that?
because personally i just can not understand this argument.
in my opinion, the MMR system is actually quite inferior to the old Emblem system - my argument for that being the following:
MMR not only fails at determining an individuals actual skill level, it actually never even tries to. all MMR is looking at to determine who wins and who loses MMR points is the final result of the game; in other words, all it cares about is whether someone escaped or not.
This means that it does not matter how you played in game, if you make it out it is counted as a win, while if you died at any point in time it is counted as a loss - the most glaring issue with this philosophy is, that the final outcome of the match absolutely doesnt stand in any correlation to how good you actually are at this game. Lets just say you were the absolute MVP during your last trial - you did 2 to 3 gens on your own, went for a couple of really clutch saves and kept the Killer busy in a chase until the last few gens got done too, but then got downed right at the end with the Killer making sure you die on hook. Does this make you a bad player? Does this mean you played worse than the 3 people that made it out or even the Killer in that matter? I dont think so - but MMR does.
And this is where i believe the old Emblem system to be way more advanced that the current MMR system is, because in that system the ultimate outcome of the match was only one of four overall factors that went into determining your score, instead of being the sole one. In the Emblem system the game at least tried (im not saying it was particularly good at it, but at least it actually tried) to judge you based on your actions ingame, meaning that, at least in my eyes, the Emblem system did a significantly better job at actually determining someones skill level in direct comparison to MMR.
the same applies to Killer btw - the Emblem system actively rewarded you for playing well and giving Survivors a multitude of second chances, to ensure that you couldnt just hook someone, camp them to death and then get a NOED strike on someone else and repeat the same - if you did that then you would be severely punished by the system due to you not engaging in many chases (even losing points in this category due to a camping penalty), not defending your gens, not injuring many people and not achieving many hooks either. MMR on the other hand only looks at the overall outcome of the match, meaning if you just do that exact same thing, MMR is actually going to reward you for it, due to you achieving 2 kills over someone who played fair and, lets say, only got 1 kill but had the others on deathhook.
In other words, the Emblem system actually tried to get Killers to play in a way that Survivors would enjoy, instead of taking the safest and most boring way possible - while MMR does nothing of the sort and actually encourages this behaviour by Killers.
but maybe i'm just missing something here, something that gives the MMR system a clear edge over the Emblem system, something that the MMR system can achieve which was entirely impossible for the Emblem system to ever get right, which is why i made this post to ask you all to elaborate on your previous statement a bit more, so i can understand where you are comming from with it.
thank you for replying!
A matchmaking system should create games where all players have equal skill levels.
Why do you believe the emblem system was better at matching players of equal skill compared to the new MMR system? I've played games where there was a Rank 1 red Killer going against a Rank 19 and a Rank 20 survivor in the emblem system. In fact, it was common to have Red rank players mixed with brown and yellow players. It was very common for games to end with in a couple of minutes because the emblem matchmaking system had unequally skilled players in it.
The skill-level of players is much more equal in the new MMR system, by far.
You created a poll in a very Killer-biased forum filled with Killers who have played for very long periods of time. Of course they want easy games, which the old emblem system provided. You pretty much excluded survivors entirely in your poll by asking the people in these forums. You also, pretty much excluded newer and mid-level players, because this forum is filled with very experienced players as a whole.
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I assume whoever made the video obviously didn't have much proof of Dead Hard being an issue, since I just watched 1 minute and 30 seconds of a Plague getting her head slammed by pallets before I gave up watching it.
Lame video btw.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2607622#Comment_2607622
Tunneled. First surv 12k, clearly camp + hard tunnel. The 12k surv was pretty much all the time in chase. And with such a low mobility killer, you have proxy camped.
Lilith doesn't tunnel or camp.
But even though, you cannot reverse my argument. Fact that a top 0,1% killer mains, mastering Blight with 1000 hours on him exclusively is unable to get at least 2k, and get only 7 hooks, just shows how broken the game is.
You cannot reverse this argument as you don't know your MMR level nor the MMR level of the survivors you have faced.
In my screenshot, you have a top 0,1% killer playing a tier S killer against high MMR survivors and high MMR survivors won the game. They stomped him even as 7 hooks is a terrible result and the trial has never been balanced.
But even though, you cannot reverse my argument. Fact that a top 0,1% killer mains, mastering Blight with 1000 hours on him exclusively is unable to get at least 2k, and get only 7 hooks, just shows how broken the game is.
That's literally 1 game. That doesn't tell anyone anything. A Killer, even if they happen to be a 0.1% Killer, should still lose once in a while in MMR because they're going against 0.1% Survivors. That's what MMR does.
You cannot reverse this argument as you don't know your MMR level nor the MMR level of the survivors you have faced.
You don't know Lilith's MMR either. For all we know, he could be mid-tier at best. Just because he streams and has played a lot, doesn't mean anything to MMR.
In my screenshot, you have a top 0,1% killer playing a tier S killer against high MMR survivors and high MMR survivors won the game. They stomped him even as 7 hooks is a terrible result and the trial has never been balanced.
If Lilith is a 0.1% killer, which you don't know to be a fact, he would be going against 0.1% survivors, because that's literally what MMR does. It puts you against your own skill level. So yes, he should get stomped every once in a while.
Also, look at the stupid perks he brought into the match. Not a single gen slowdown perk or Meta. He literally has a meme build. No Killer would seriously think, "Gee, I should have won that match using these perks".
If he won that match, then that would show that Killers are overpowered. A meme Killer perk build verses 4 survivors all running meta perks. Come on now.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/26KP63NS3USK/image.png
Even though Blight is considered as a Tier S killer with a high skill ceiling, Lilith, one of the best, if not the best, Blight player still cannot win against High MMR survivors lol
He got 7 hooks on that game. Ormond map.
Dbd is at its worst state compared to the last 3 years. Even top 0,1% killer mains with the best killers can't win. That's crazy.
Here's a Tier 1 killer that got 4 kills with Trickster. It must mean Killer is OP and needs a nerf.
Or maybe, 1 example of a game means absolutely nothing.
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@DangerScouse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2607581#Comment_2607581
Self care is not a "super heal". The fact is they can now do it without a med kit, without a teammate, and quicker then they ever could with self care
If you look at it's usage, it really isn't being used that much for it just being the 2nd week of release and the usage is becoming less and less. If survivors aren't using it that much, it isn't OP.
I mean think about it, why waste a perk slot for something that any teammate can do for you in 16 seconds off hook.
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@DangerScouse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2607392#Comment_2607392
But since Boons I have gone from doing ok, to getting smashed those same survivors who can nowheal super quick and can hide their auras and scratchmarks.
Survivors have always been able to "super" heal. Be it medkit, self-care, Better Together, etc etc. Heck, another survivor can heal you off hook for 16 seconds without using a single perk slot. You're acting like healing is a whole new thing that never happened before.
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@EntitySpawn said:
NOOOOO, *sighs* now I'm gonna try playing plague because people said it's fun and I'm gonna get bullied at high mmr.
Curse you for taunting me with the idea of joy!
Nah definitely gonna have to give her ago now
At High MMR, you only have Nurse, Blight and Spirit to rely on. Plague is definitely not a high MMR killer, she's one step below, maybe two. Still really fun and strong.
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@SadLegion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606921#Comment_2606921
Nah i dont buy it. You need to tunnel or camp someone as Trapper when you have an opportunity. Maybe your definition of tunneling is a bit stricter. What i mean by that is going only for 2 survivors, and ignoring 2 others. This way i avoid DS/BT shenanigans. Im not necessarily hard focusing only one guy, but if i have an opportunity i will eliminate someone as fast as i can.
You said that MMR keeps you at that point, where you get one match against really good team, another against mediocre. I noticed that as well, i get 4man escapes in one match, maybe a 2-3k in another. Still not a 2k average. And i dont believe its possible especially without slowdown perks. Something is amiss.
The MMR adjusts to how you play. Trapper is one of the weaker killers, if not the weakest killer. MMR adjusts to that. Now my definition of tunneling is different than yours.
When I say tunneling, I mean proxy-tunneling. Basically staying within heart-beat range of the hook and solely going after the hooked person, until they are eliminated from the game.
However, I don't intentionally go after 2 survivors and ignore the other 2 either. If I run into one I've hooked previously before, I'll hook them again. But that's more because I don't keep track of the survivors I've hooked, specifically to go after them again. I use to do that when I was first learning killer but I don't do that now.
MMR will adjust to your playstyle if you let it and it will average out to 2ks 2es. It may take a lot of games, but it will adjust.
And yes, I will play games without slowdown perks on Trapper. It's harder, but not impossible. I definitely don't do it all the time but I do every once in a while. If I get Red Forest without slowdown perks, I'll most likely get 0k. But maps like Coal Tower, it's not that bad.
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@SadLegion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606905#Comment_2606905
Depends on what killer you play and what addons you use. If you wanna tell me that you consistently get "fair" 2k's on trapper i find it hard to believe.
MMR adjusts to your game play, so yes, I get an average of 2ks on Trapper. There's definitely games where I don't get any kills and there's games where I get 4ks.
Trapper is also one of my mains.
And what will amaze you more is that I don't always use a gen slowing down perk with Trapper.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606903#Comment_2606903
the PTB boon totems were way way too strong. you can't tell me otherwise.
The PTB boon totems were bugged and they fixed the "Overlapping" bug. They also reduced the size of the AoE by 4 meters. I agreed with the bug fix and the 4 meter reduction.
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@SadLegion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606869#Comment_2606869
What advanced techniques? Praying that survivors dont focus on gens too hard? I guess im still a new killer after 2k hours and didnt learn that advanced techniques.
2k's and 2e's can be achieved by tunneling + NOED, i dont consider this a good result.
That is totally untrue. I don't tunnel and NOED and easily get 2k/2e, on average.
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@GannTM said:
I will admit that they are strong but I just don’t think they’re OP. I actually really like the gameplay around boons as it requires setup preparation and the survivor has to go out of their way to activate the perk. It’s also a new gameplay element which spices it up. Killers can also hear boons and it takes them just a second to break it. You will probably say that the survivor can put it back easily but they still have to spend time doing it.
I’ve felt like at least COH has a chance to be meta because of its nature in helping the whole team out which I’m honestly very glad to see because we need more variety in the meta. Maybe COH can be toned down a little where it decreases self healing speed but I think it’s honestly fine.
I think everyone is beginning to realize boon totems aren't game breaking. Especially now that boon totems are getting seen less and less and meta perks are popping back up in survivor builds.
It was basically "Lucky Break" all over again. Luckily Killers have cried wolf one to many times and the Developers actually kept an eye on them instead of insta-nerfing them like they did "Lucky Break".
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606869#Comment_2606869
I disagree about camping/tunneling being "elementary school tactics". Killers have to do it a lot to secure one kill when the match isn't going in their favor.
It's something every Killer learns when they first get the game. Its easier to learn than using the killers power correctly. Yes, it's a very elementary school tactic.
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@Labrac said:
She was never a killer that I paid much attention, even though I knew she was underrated. I would play her usually once or twice a week at best, but man is she a blast to play since her buffs. I've been playing her non stop since yesterday and I don't remember the last time I've had so much fun in this game. I played 17 games of Plague since yesterday and only on 3 the survivors completed all generators.
The best thing about her is how she counters a lot of things on the survivor meta. Iron Will, Boons, Medkits and BT (when she has Corrupt Purge) are borderline useless against her.
Her addon variety is also great. She has almost no bad addons, and you can always go for something like Apple addons or Iri Seal + CP duration the counter the stronger teams.
As Otzdarva once said, "Vommy Mommy is unstoppable". I know she's a very unpopular killer (her last pick rate was like the lowest in all killers), but I highly recommend to play her now.
She's always been a strong killer that killer mains have always whined that she's weak. It's unfortunately she got a buff, because now everyone is playing her. I wanted her to stay my special little secret.
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@SadLegion said:
I don't see any other possibility to have a winning chance in this game anymore.
3 gen strat gets broken by Prove Thyself / Built to Last Toolbox in less than 50 seconds.
Hooking more than 2 different survivors will get me nothing when the gens pop up in 5 minutes. Split damage, hit n run is dumpstered by Circle of Healing. Mass slugging never works because someone always has Unbreakable, and survivors can reset under CoH in 10 seconds. Dead Hard robbing me of precious seconds, DS/BT respect.
I started running Noed on every m1 killer, Pop/Corrupt always mandatory. Cant run BBQ simply because i have no time to traverse a map to find a survivor i havent hooked yet. It feels like killers have less and less options to be viable in this game.
Im really glad that they nerfed keys, but god damn i feel like playing killer is getting worse over time. Seriously, CoH was a mistake. BHVR should tone it down a bit, but also do something with base gen regression. Things like 5% regression apply when the generator is kicked, and base regression is increased by 50%. Small careful changes that will make killers life a little easier. Mangled with its 20% slowdown is outdated, when all new survivor healing perks have 100% increasement.
Im afraid that if BHVR keeps this trend of giving overbuffed perks for survivors, the only killers left in this game will be 3 blink Nurses with Noed and 3 slowdowns.
I'm not having problems playing Killer unless I play Trapper and even then, I really don't need to resort to tunneling. I'm not seeing how everyone is "supposedly" having problems unless you are expecting 4ks every game. You should be averaging 2ks and 2es and that's exactly what I'm getting.
I think maybe part of the issue is that there is a lot of new Killers being handicapped by relying on tunneling and camping and not moving up to the more advanced techniques for handling gen speeds.
Tunneling and Camping are elementary school tactics, you need to learn middle school and high school techniques for managing gen speeds.
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No, Dead Hard is the most powerful perk in the game. It's stronger than NOED, Ruin, Devour Hope, Undying, and all the other exhaustion perks combined. It allows the survivor to teleport across the entire map and gives them an extra health state every time they use it. If a survivor uses dead hard 5 times, even if the killer isn't around, then when the killer finally finds that survivor the killer has to hit that survivor 5 additional times to get that killer to go down. The extra health states are so bad, that the next killer has to deal with those extra health states in the next game, even if the survivor isn't using Dead Hard.
I've had a survivor come into my match with 20 extra health states from using Dead Hard the previous game.
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@LeonxJiwoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2598092#Comment_2598092
yup as the Entitled noed killer mains who tunnel/face camp/hits on hook like immature children because they got 5 gen looped.
And then they complain about Lucky Break, a mediocre perk, until it was nerfed. Then the Developers were surprised no one used Lucky Break, so they buffed it. And still the Developers are surprised no one uses Lucky Break. It's as if the Killers are entitled little princesses with a persecution complex.
Now the entitled Killers are crying to the Developers to get rid of boon totems, even though their war cry has been "Do Bones" anytime a survivor mentions NOED.
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597806#Comment_2597806
1- I don't get to use botany knowledge on other survivors every game, in a good one i'll maybe use it for 3 heals.
2- You are not taking into account that it GIVES self care, you don't need to find another survivor to heal
3- You count the time you need to get to there and heal but you dont count the time you need to find a survivor to heal and coordinate, that seems oddly convenient
4- You are still ignoring that even if it was true that self-care + botany was better than circle of healing on an individual case, it takes 8 perk slots, Circle of Healing takes only 1 slot. Do you see how stupidly imbalanced this is?
If CoH is a problem, the Developers will fix it. I'm sure they're watching it closely. I just think a lot of Killers have "Lucky-Breakitis". The numbers just aren't on the Killer's side.
2- You are not taking into account that it GIVES self care, you don't need to find another survivor to heal
If someone heals you, compared to healing yourself, does it matter if the time works out to the same.
3- You count the time you need to get to there and heal but you dont count the time you need to find a survivor to heal and coordinate, that seems oddly convenient
If you are talking about coordinating with an SWF, you just tell them what gen you are at, run to it. If you aren't, survivors are always at gens. Heck, if the survivor that unhooks you doesn't have a single healing perk, he can still heal you in 16 seconds. That's 96 seconds for 3 heals off hook compared to 82 seconds for CoH. That's a 14 second time different without even using a perk.
4- You are still ignoring that even if it was true that self-care + botany is better than circle of healing on an individual case, it takes 8 perk slots, Circle of Healing takes only 1 slot. Do you see how stupidly imbalanced this is?
You can get healed off hook for 32 seconds without a single perk compared to 42 seconds with CoH.
I'm not saying CoH is a bad perk. But I am saying that it's not a meta perk. You can get heals from anywhere in DBD. You can't get DS, BT, UB, Exhaustion Perks, Adrenaline, Iron Will, etc from anywhere.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597465#Comment_2597465
That argument is sooooo weak.
It honestly doesn't matter if there's no data that it's statistically better. It's in 99% of games, if not more. It's something I loathe about BHVRs approach to balance, that they refuse to tweak anything without a full rework. If something is in 90% of games, it deserves to be weakened at least a little, and I mean this for both sides.We keep seeing "oh we reworked Deja Vu!" "wow Babysitter is marginally less terrible!" It means absolutely nothing and doesn't shift the meta in the slightest. It's an annoying perk to deal with, and killers have to be conscious of it and play around it in literally every chase even the early ones with a player who doesn't even have the perk.
It doesn't take skill to use. It is literally just "press e to extend the chase." It gets you to pallets and to windows super easily, and now thanks to the new patch it doesn't even take the slightest bit of skill to anticipate the killer swinging, because all you have to do is see the animation start and it will guarantee you can't be hit.
On the other hand Balanced Landing and Lithe both require positioning yourself better on the map so that you can actually use it in a better manner than just beelining for somewhere it can trigger, and both can trigger on places where they don't even help like a window where you take a hit, or in a jungle gym where you can't make full use of the sprint because you're forced to run parallel to the killer rather than away. Dead Hard is only wasted when you as a survivor actively make a mistake, which is legitimately hard to do now.
Under your thinking Ruin, BBQ Chili and NOED all need nerfed, because they're used to much.
You don't even know if it's used 99% of the time. I can guarantee you I don't see all 4 survivors using it every game I play.
The problem with Dead Hard is "group think" and "confirmation bias". Some streamer said "Dead Hard, bugga bugga" and now every Killer is "Dead Hard, bugga bugga".
No one has shown any proof that Dead Hard is out-performing other endurance perks. Being used a lot means absolutely nothing. Bring proof that Dead Hard is out-performing other perks in time efficiency during chases, then you have a case.
I'll even tell you how to bring proof. Choose 20 random locations on different maps. Have the survivor start and the killer slightly outside of lunge range, run the same loop the same way, and see which endurance perk is extending chases the longest. If Dead Hard is always extending chase to an absurd amount, then you have a point. (You would need to slightly alter the loop for Lithe and Balanced Landing or course).
Until then, you don't have an argument.
(I would argue that survivors using Lithe and Balanced Landing survivors generally setup where they're at to get the most use out of those perks).
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597806#Comment_2597806
Your numbers are not correct. So looks like you wanna ignore travel time, ok.
3 heals CoH 14 + 3x16 = 62s, that is alone noone else have to move from gen.
Botany knowledge heal is 12 second, so 24 * 3 = 72s
It's based on wiki, but I am not sure if it is 12 / 10, but it doesn't matter that much...
Problem is that it works only if both survivors have Botany knowledge. Just 1 is not enough.
So, you can see, the time used is not same. CoH edging out Botany Knowledge in effeciency
33% of 16 is 10.72 seconds, looking at the page it does say it's "approximately 12". With Botany Knowledge, survivors would general find each other at gens, so travel time would be in Botany Knowledge's favor, but lets ignore that. However, I would say you need to add the time finding a totem. If you don't have a totem finding perk, you would spend much more time finding a totem, than if didn't. I'd say, without a perk, it's going to take you 20 to 40 seconds finding a totem. With a perk, it will probably take about 10ish. However, lets ignore that also. We'll just go with your numbers.
62 seconds compared to 72 seconds is pretty much equal.
I would argue that Botany Knowledge really wouldn't have travel time because survivors usually find each other at gens. Also, time finding a totem wasn't added in for CoH. But even with your numbers, I'm not seeing how it's a big problem.
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597659#Comment_2597659
Comparing the effect of a 33%+ extra healing speed for 1 survivor to 100% extra healing speed+self care for the whole team just by spending 14 seconds on a totem doesn't seem fair to me. And not only that, it have stackable value if you add other boon totem perks on top of that.
The idea is different so it scares everyone, because it's never been done before. So you really have to break down the numbers to see if it's really as different as it sounds. Since we have not had something like CoH, we have to use the closest thing to it to compare it and we have to find a bases to compare it from, so lets use survivor time.
Based on my example before, 3 heals from CoH requires 82 seconds of survivors time. (I'm rarely seeing boon totems last more than 3 heals, so far, so I'm using that as an example)
Now, if a "Botany Knowledge" survivor actively uses the perk to heal survivors. It's still a single perk that the whole team can benefit from (it's not exactly the same but it's the closest thing we have to compare with). If a survivor heals 3 times with it, it costs both the survivor and the survivor being healed 10 seconds each. So 20 seconds a heal. Used 3 times, it's 60 seconds of survivors time used.
So, as you can see, the time used is relatively the same, Botany Knowledge edging out CoH in time effeciency. Again, they aren't the exact same perk and require difference conditions, but based on time efficiency, they are pretty much the same.
What I'm saying is that it sounds scary but once you compare them for how much time survivors are using, they really are pretty darn close.
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@Vampwire said:
I'm going to get straight to the point: there are 4 survivors and 1 killer.
The reason hex perks work on killers is because they're one time use and survivors can split up. One survivor looks for the totem, one distracts and the others do gens (hopefully). The gamble of a hex perk is what allows its powerful effects since there's the chance that it could be gone at any second. That's why hex perks work with killers.
Boons are the exact opposite.
1 killer doesn't have the time to go all over the map snuffing boons. Sure, you could find one in chase and go back, but that's still a loss of time investment. Breaking them during a chase is a great way to give survivors distance or potentially lose them as well.
There's also the fact that you can basically use them whenever. It does take time to use, but a little time off of gens for free healing is extremely worth it. Now everybody has an indefinite medkit to use whenever. This erases pressure since all that happens now is survivors run to the boon and heal. Instead of taking the time from their allies to get a heal, they heal while everybody else progresses the game.
Normally you want to build up pressure to snowball, but you literally can't do that if everyone is humping a healing totem. There is no room to snowball anymore because whenever you hit someone and switch targets they already healed themselves before you get the down. Boons create a lose-lose for killers. You either take time from juggling survivors to snuff it or you just let it be and watch your pressure vanish. Both are equally terrible.
And that's just Circle of Healing.
Shadowstep is arguably not as bad, but when paired with Iron Will you will lose the survivor unless you just charge at them like a bull. Looking for blood trails on some maps is a nightmare. Most of the time when you do find them the blood pools are already fading. And yet again if you snuff the totem you lose the survivor anyways.
Boons really just need a limit on how many times they can be placed. Maybe once per totem. The main issue is that survivors can use it as many times as they want and the effects are way too good to allow that constantly. While also demanding a time investment that the killer doesn't have.
inb4 "it takes 24 seconds to do so it's balanced"
Do bones.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597472#Comment_2597472
Yes. I would. And would laugh at them for taking it so serious.
Would you let me choose the 4 strangers that sit on the couch with you and allow me to record the video of you face-camping and laughing at them for youtube? Also, the location would be a cabin in the woods somewhere.
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597302#Comment_2597302
It wouldn't be a big deal if it only affected you. It's a perk that everyone can benefit from for just 1 perk slot. If you can't see the obvious design failure i don't know what to say.
I'm using Botany Knowledge as an example but there are other healing perks I could use as an example.
Botany Knowledge affects your entire team also. With CoH, the only difference is you go to the healing perk instead of the healing perk going to you. Well, that and the fact that, as killer, you have absolutely no control over Botany Knowledge. CoH, you can at least destroy it.
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@SlothGirly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597429#Comment_2597429
There is so much wrong with what you just said I don't even know where to begin. It's a ######### video game.
So, if you were sitting on a couch with 4 other strangers, playing Dead By Daylight. Would you take one of the strangers playing survivor to the basement, face-camp them and proceed to hit them while they are on the hook, not able to do something.
I think not. At least you wouldn't do it without getting into a fight.
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@anarchy753 said:
I know it's a "fix" and not a "buff," but the thought process behind it baffles me.
It is probably the single most used survivor perk in the game, and it exists in a category of perks (exhaustion) which are meant to compete with each other but it so completely outshines all the rest that I haven't even seen Balanced Landing or Lithe for the better part of a year.
On top of that it's continually complained about because of how much it gives OVER its intended purpose. It's a perk that was always intended as a brief moment when the killer swings that you don't take damage, and instead is more commonly used at high tiers as "a dash you can use on demand to extremely lengthen the chase by reaching a window or pallet safely that you wouldn't have otherwise."
Now sure, it wasn't working perfectly in every situation, but it is the top tier of top tier survivor perks, and what do they do? Change how it functions with the servers so that the only counterplay which exists for it now no longer works.
It's like if they just decided "Oh hey guys, we're just making it so that you can't cleanse any totem EXCEPT the totem undying starts on first, because it was in every match but it just needed to be more painful to deal with."
Personally if I had my way, it would lose the dash forward entirely. Make it consistent to use in the swing animation if you must, but remove the option to use the perk in a way it was never intended to be used.
There is currently no data showing that Dead Hard extends chases more than Lithe, Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing. Even if it did, it does take more skill that Lithe, Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing just like Nurse takes more skill to use that Trapper. Plus you have Smash Hit and Head on that underperforms the other exhaustion perks. So not all exhaustion perks are equal.
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@SlothGirly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597320#Comment_2597320
yes I do, do you think it's fun to complain about how other people choose to play a video game?
If you were playing a solo video game, then you have the right to do whatever you want to do with that video game. However, you are choosing to play a video game with 4 other people.
Socially, what you are doing is going to dinner with 4 other strangers. While at the dinner table, you are choosing to insult them and spit in their food.
The reason you think it's ok in a video game is because you can hide behind the anonymity on the internet so that you can act like a barn animal without getting your butt kicked.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597302#Comment_2597302
It's not hard to find a totem, you have several guaranteed spawns on most maps.
Everyone healing there after it heals in 16 seconds. That's alone, without any help, without any perk, any item. Just because someone used 1 perk.
They will have to travel to it? Yeah, you don't run somewhere with med-kit? You do it in front of a killer? You always run somewhere, this just changes where you go. That range is not small, so you are not that limited unless it's really in corner of the map. So you can't really count your travel time only to CoH.
"We'll Make it"
Only if you are the one who unhooked and again you can't do it alone. So this doesn't really negate hit&run, nor 3-gen.
"Self-Care and Botany Knowledge"
Interesting, so you need 2 perks on every survivor to have effect of 1 perk in whole team? 8 vs 1
Do you see how it is big deal that killer can't get rid of it?
Unless you find out who has it and tunnel the ######### out of him...
It's not hard to find a totem, you have several guaranteed spawns on most maps.
This takes time and there have been several times I haven't found a totem the entire match. Running a totem finding perk is the only way to reliably make sure you can quickly find a totem quickly enough, so it's not effecting your time doing gens.
Everyone healing there after it heals in 16 seconds. That's alone, without any help, without any perk, any item. Just because someone used 1 perk.
This is inaccurate. You are not counting the time to bless the totem and you are not counting the time to find the totem. It is not 16 seconds. If you want to pretend that travel time and finding a totem doesn't exist, it's still a 30 second heal the first time you use it. If 2 people use it, the time efficiency is 23 seconds. Again, that's without counting finding a totem and traveling to the totem, which you still have to account for. If someone is running "Botany Knowledge", every heal they do is 10 seconds. "Botany Knowledge" is a single perk and works for everyone on the team. "We'll make It" is 6 seconds, about 3 times as time efficient as CoH. And trust me, if you are running "We'll Make It", you going for hook saves. 1 hook save with "We'll Make It" equals 3 uses of CoH. So you don't have to make ever hook save to get time efficiency out of "We'll Make It".
"Self-Care and Botany Knowledge"
Interesting, so you need 2 perks on every survivor to have effect of 1 perk in whole team? 8 vs 1
"Botany Knowledge" is a single perk and works for the entire team. 1 perk for the whole team. And it gives you 10 second heals, compared to 27 seconds. It's almost 3 times as time effective.
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@BrokenSouI said:
You know. It's hilarious. I was just trying to chill last night and play killers without add ons (which was aweful btw) I got so many toxic survivor games in a row. That I literally started camping with bubba about halfway through. And even hitting on hook as repayment for their actions.
Isn't that more like baby-tantrum Bubba instead of basement Bubba?
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@UkilledLegion said:
If u not hear US u will lost more players.For what was validation hit dead hard validation hit through pallet if it can be seen that killer hit survivor?Why u make game for killers unplayable?Maybe u make a stream when u play killers vs 4 Mikaela??? :D Why u buff hard dead?
Listen if u cant do anything with ur servers.LET RETURN WHEN KILLER WAS HOST!!!!!I ITS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!! ITS SAD ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Killer's community require normal honest HORROR game! If u cant do this,we will tell to u GOODBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Devs, as someone who plays Killers, I am perfectly fine with you fixing bugs and am not boycotting DBD. In fact, I appreciate the Killers who are boycotting DBD so that I get shorter queue times as Killer.
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Speaking specifically about Circle of Healing...
- Very few survivors can find a totem reliably, so the large majority of survivors are going to run Small Game or something else. So most times Boons are taking up 2 spots.
- Next, let's do the math on healing speeds for boons.
- Boons take 14 seconds to bless, 16 seconds to use. So 30 seconds for a heal.
- However, you also have to find the totem, say that takes about 16 seconds. But to err on the side of caution, let's say you're really fast at finding a totem, so 8 seconds. The heal time is now up to 38 seconds
- Since survivors won't be around the totems area of effect, they will have to travel to it. I would say on average, you will have people in it about 1/3 of the time and survivors that have to travel about 8 seconds to it the other 2/3s of the time. So 4 extra seconds for travel. The heal time is up to 42 seconds.
- First Heal - 42 seconds
- The 2nd Heal would add 16 more seconds for healing and 4 seconds travel time. So 2 heals cost survivors a total of 62 seconds, divided by 2 is 31 seconds for each heal.
- The 3rd heal would add another 20 seconds, so 82 seconds. Divided by 3 is 27 seconds for each survivor.
- If the Killer breaks the totem, which the probably will before 3 people gets heals, then you add 14 more second and 8 seconds finding the totem.
Now take Self-Care and Botany Knowledge
- If you heal yourself, you are getting 21 second heals. 21 second heals is much better than 27 second heals.
- However, if you heal someone else, you are getting 10 second heals. Boon totems will never beat Self-Care and Botany Knowledge for the speed of heals and Killers can't "snuff out" Botany Knowledge and Self Care. Botany Knowledge works for the entire team.
We'll Make it
- Single perk that gives you 8 second heals. Again, much more time efficient than Circle of Healing and benefits the entire team except yourself.
Do you see why Circle of Healing isn't a big deal. You can ignore it as Killer until you are going past it and it only hurts survivors, time-wise.
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@Akuuseru said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2H6XS32SZKPC/dbdpic4.png
4 Shadow step and 2 circle of healing. How am i even suppose to play against that ??!
I already hear the survivor only say: "Just break them" or "It's not OP because it takes a long time to boon the totem". LOL
I couldn't see their scratch marks because their totem covered all the map and when i broke them i heard that thunder sound 30sec later that told me that the totem was up again. It's literally uncounterable.
So i propose many things to nerf those boon perks:
- A cooldown of 80sec when a survivor boon a totem AND when the killer break a totem.
- Being able to apply only 1 boon to a totem (so only shadow step or CoH)
- Reduce the totem's range to 20 meters
Or just a simple nerf : that the killer break the totem when unboon the totem
In any case, this as to be fixed !
Correlation does not imply causation.
Just because you observed 1 example of a match in which 4 survivors had boon totem perks during the 1st week of release, does not mean boon totems are OP and need a nerf.
For example, Lucky Break was very commonly played by all 4 survivors during the 1st week of release. And killers, such as yourself cried for nerfs to Lucky Break because it was game breaking. However, now we see it was quiet underpowered and actually was buffed from 45 seconds to 60 seconds. Even with that buff, it still isn't used.
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Yeah, I would say Blight needs a nerf too.
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@SAégis said:
no restriction, infinite use, you chose where you put the totem, destroy ANY snowball strategie that is required to win with basic killer, COMPLETLY denied like 20/25 killer on the roster.
this perk shouldnt even make it to the game and yet, only way to actually play basic killer is to camp or tunnel hard cuz you cant pressure or snowball in any way in high mmr this is without a doubt a top 3 or even top 1 perk in the game WITH EASE
If you did the math, CoH is pretty much in line with other healing perks and is in fact less time efficient in a lot of ways.
For example, "We'll Make It" works infinitely. It works for all your teammates. And it's 8 second Heals compared to 16 second Heals. And you can't break it.
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@zombitehdeath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2593102#Comment_2593102
i doubt that endurance perks are outperforming dead hard. If it did i would've seen endurance perk more often then dead hard which i know i haven't.
they should've rework or nerfed it first while adding the validation hit on to it.
Have you thought that may you see Dead Hard all the time, because there is constantly threads about how OP Dead Hard is and how much it needs a nerf.
I've always been a fan of Sprint Burst, but after coming to these forums, I was like, my god Dead Hard must be the end-all be-all of survivor perks. I tried it for a while and realized it's like any other endurance perk.
Balanced Landing is my go to perk for multi-story stages. Sprint Burst is my generic goto endurance perk. Lithe and Dead Hard are there when I get bored of the other two. Heck, there are even times I play Smash Hit and Head on. As someone that uses all the endurance perks, I would say Sprint Burst is the over-all best and Head on is the bottom of the barrel with Smash Hit being very close behind.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592092#Comment_2592092
Only if that means a nerf is incoming.
Since this was the perfect time for Developers to rework or nerf Dead Hard instead of wasting time fixing it, then you have to assume the Developers have looked at the data and aren't seeing Dead Hard out performing the other exhaustion perks.
Also, you have to consider all the Dead Hard Nerf threads that pop up over and over again on the forums, that the Developers have been scrutinizing Dead Hard with a vengeance.
My guess is Dead Hard is being over-hyped by Killers mains with the constant nerf Dead Hard threads, yet in reality, it's not showing as an issue to the Developers.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592997#Comment_2592997
Survivor Mains don’t understand simple, terminology… or perhaps they don’t want their fragile egos hurt. They couldn’t possibly be getting carried by a perk, right?
Buff (video gaming), a change to a weapon or ability that deems it more viable for game balance.
By making Dead Hard “work as intended”, as they innocently put it, this perk now becomes insanely more viable. There are no ands, ifs or buts here - this is a straight up buff.
It's a fix, Dead Hard wasn't working as intended.
However, I think the take-away here is that the Developers have looked at Dead Hards data and instead of changing it or nerfing it, they fixed it. Which means Dead Hard isn't out performing other endurance perks. If it was, then they would have reworked it instead of taking the time to fix it.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
In so many matches survivors were robbed due to this perk being buggy, especially ever since dedicated servers.
Hopefully we won't see this any more of this!
Yes, thank you Devs.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592976#Comment_2592976
The survivors were always meant to be immune to any damage at pallets and at will with dead hard, even if they time it wrong and actually get hit before they activate the perks? Mmmkay.
Hit-Validation tries to decide the fairest course based on where the killer is and survivor is. It works better than basing it solely on Killer data, because any lag always affects the survivor but not the Killer in hits.