Mr_K
Mr_K
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- Mr_K
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Spine chill is for new survivors that haven't learned how to look around yet.
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The bots have very distinct pathing while in chase. Unless they use a different AI you will be able to tell.
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The first one was well deserved. From the sound of it they felt bad and at least wanted the remaining three to get points. (Maybe bp offering was used)
Killers are not mind readers. Stand next to a hook and start pointing at it if you don't want to farm. Running after us is not shouting kill me kill me. It could be farming Bold for all we know.
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So, have to use an addon just to counter the almighty crouch.
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Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
Or
Four survivors and one killer voting on what map they should play.
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Search mode is such a pain. Looking at the target trying slight changes to get the arrow to appear just for it to disappear the moment you click just makes me not want to use it.
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@Hexbadboy23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954499#Comment_3954499
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/049Y8OZB1VNP/img-5853.jpeg
This is a more clear picture. The killer actually slugged 2 people and found the last survivor and it needs to be addressed.
sometimes video will tell more than a picture. Judging from the timer the killer found that third survivor rather quickly. Now that could mean the third survivor is bad at hiding or the killer knew where the third surviors was.
Regardless how your match went, lets say all three of you were in the same area, the killer downs two survivors and the third survivor was standing in the open full view of the killer. Is it not reasonable for the killer to chase down the third survivor over hooking the slugs and searching for the third?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953992#Comment_3953992
"Just chain tiles!" Never mind that every map has been reworked to put any strong tile next to a resource wasteland to prevent exactly that. That's exactly what im referring to when I say survivors skill expression is currently hard capped. Anything in the game that high skill survivors can leverage gets nuked.
And you're lying through your teeth pretending like 80% of the current garbage loops aren't a free hit by the time bloodlust 2 is reached. I acknowledged that 4 man swf at high mmr has a slightly better performance and yet they are still losing more than they win. How does that compare to the results high tier killers are having? Right. Not remotely in the same ballpark.
So the same killers that currently blame matchmaking for the ridiculous winstreaks are the ones who whined to get matchmaking changed to begin with? And we cant nerf their favorite broken killers because they might face a team capable of giving them a fair match once per hundred games? Wow its almost like all roads lead back to killers should continue being allowed to win 95% of their matches.
if we're not going to allow high skill survivors to express skill and we also want to continue balancing as a comp vs party game, we're left with:
1. Nerf S tier killers
2. Unnerf maps so high skill survivors have a chance
3. Make matchmaking actually work
So the same killers that currently blame matchmaking for the ridiculous winstreaks are the ones who whined to get matchmaking changed to begin with?
Yeah, the same ones. And at the time they openly said they couldn't do kill streaks because every match was sweaty.
And no, not just anything. I'm not saying survivor is simply do x and win.
You're complaining about "broken" killers and killstreaks but then say bloodlust is an issue. What killer going for killstreaks is gaining bloodlust 3 with a "broken" killer?! Do you think Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Ghoul, etc are even gaining bloodlust 1? No, bloodlust comes from M1 killers without decent chase powers. If any player is relying on getting BL3 I will guarantee you their streak will be a short one.
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DBD is very hands on training. There are so many things you can learn about the game that it would overwhelm a new player that just wants to press play.
Also, there's no amount of information you can give to someone that hasn't played that will make them good. Trial and error has always been the building blocks to getting better at this game.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952663#Comment_3952663
I hear there’s a new civilization coming out.
Just in time, I really wish the Dev's would provide a better recommendation though.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953702#Comment_3953702
You're arguing with a Killer Main, i.e. a brick wall. Killer Mains think they should only be getting 4Ks without having to work for it, so they call any Killer they're bad with "weak" even when the stats don't back it up. They think Survivors should be happy that they get away once every ten matches. They think doing generators fast is toxic, yet think tunneling, slugging and camping are valid strategies. The only fun they care about is their own, and unfortunately BHVR is on their side. It's why the game sucks as Survivor right now, because BHVR only listens to the side of the selfish side of the community.
He is arguing with a killer main but that is all you got right in this post.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953671#Comment_3953671
Nope, I'm saying if high level survivor skill is going to be capped, so should killer. In other words, I can't run a killer for 5 gens because after 35 seconds the game says "there there buddy its ok, here have a free hit with this 20% speed boost. its ok you don't need to learn how to run a LT wall as killer". That being the case, your above average sweaty blight main shouldn't regularly go weeks without losing a match.
I'd like to know where you're getting your escape rate stats since the last time they were shown, SWF barely made any difference. Or are you saying since a "high mmr" 4 man still escapes less than half the time, its perfectly fine for high mmr killers to regularly win 100's of matches?
Nope, I'm saying if high level survivor skill is going to be capped, so should killer. In other words, I can't run a killer for 5 gens because after 35 seconds the game says "there there buddy its ok, here have a free hit with this 20% speed boost. its ok you don't need to learn how to run a LT wall as killer". That being the case, your above average sweaty blight main shouldn't regularly go weeks without losing a match.
Bloodlust your reason for a skillcap or is it just an example? Because it's a poor one. Yes after chasing a survivor for 35 seconds a killer may get a single hit. May, because that hit is not guarantee like you are claiming. Your scenario is based on running a single tile and not chaining tiles like, you know, an experienced survivor would.
I'd like to know where you're getting your escape rate stats since the last time they were shown, SWF barely made any difference. Or are you saying since a "high mmr" 4 man still escapes less than half the time, its perfectly fine for high mmr killers to regularly win 100's of matches?
The same place as you get them but it seems you are not reading them in the same way. Take what I've stated earlier, the killer role you only have yourself while with survivor you have to rely on others. When it comes to playing DBD for the first time, with zero knowledge of the game, who will win? The killer or survivor? Anybody with real experience with this game will say the killer will win more times than not. Why? Because new survivors don't know how to use the resources available to them. They run without looking behind thinking the killer only takes the same path they take. The game used to be balanced with these players in mind. Pallets and windows just a stones throw from each other. Survivors could be as wasteful as they want. Looping wasn't necessary because you could just run to the next pallet and be safe. This wasn't skill, this wasn't managing resources, this was run to pallet run to pallet. Now give that survivor a brain and see how someone with skill could run a killer for 5 gens. Give all four survivors a brain and see how even switching targets becomes a huge time sink.
Let's look at those stats. I will just look at the High MMR ones as the overall stats includes new players where, as stated before, will die more often due to not knowing the game. High MMR can reasonably be assumed the survivors are skilled in escaping as that is how you gain MMR as survivor.
Solo 40.4%, 2xSWF 40.0%, 3xSWF 42.3%, and 4xSWF 48.2%. Solo and 2xSWF are statistically the same. 3xSWF slightly above the means and 4xSWF a huge outlier. As in my other post, I've stated the survivor role is not based solely on the individual survivor skill. It is based on the overall skill and cooperation of the team that determines if they escape or die. Does the numbers not follow this logic? As a solo survivor you are at the mercy of match making to provide you will evenly skilled teammates. *(Maybe when SBMM was strict but it's very loose right now.) If those teammate don't pull their wait or "go next" by not doing anything, your chances of surviving that match becomes very low.
You cannot 1v1 the killer and complete 5 gens.
As a duel SWF you have one other person you can rely on but two randoms can still throw the entire match away. A three man SWF though has the highest chance of survival outside 4xSWF as one random survivor being bad doesn't completely destroy your chances. A bad survivor can still hold M1 on a gen.
A 4xSWF, where you try to dismiss, has a much higher escape rate than the other three. Why is that? These are supposedly good survivors at all four categories. What does a 4x group bring that 2x or 3x does not? A team that won't give up on each other. A team where 1 or 2 randoms don't throw 2 seconds into the match.
'* I also want to point out that SBMM was at one point very strict when it came to the High MMR experience. But you would have content creators complaining everyday that all their matches were sweat after sweat. Kill streaks were much rarer and many didn't attempt them. It wasn't until BHVR caved and loosen the SBMM that content creators began their kill streak sagas again. What does that tell you? It should tell you that they are taking advantage of a looser standard in match making and preying on survivors less skilled than they.
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@XtremeDBD_YT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953677#Comment_3953677
I think the 2v8 stage reduction machanic can be put into the main game.
@Shroompy its definitely a noticeable problem as of the 9.0.0 update. Its a huge topic rn since killrates on all killers have dropped by around 10%, which is not good
Even if they did drop, it wouldn't be 10%.
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Are you wanting 100s gens?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953268#Comment_3953268
Gone are the days of running a killer for 5 gens and escaping.
To be fair, that has less to do with your skill or your teammates and more to do with maps being so bad that you barely have anything to work with, Coldwind Farm in particular.
No matter how good you are, there isn't much you can do if the game doesn't give you enough resources to protect yourself.
Very true and wasn't what I was implying. Back in the day you could nearly 1v1 the killer without much effort.
What I'm saying is, why you don't see very high escape streaks is due to not being able to rely only on yourself. The quality of your team strongly influences if you will survive or not. That is why most attempts do so as a SWF and not as solo. With four people there's an increased chance of one messing up bring down the other three.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953268#Comment_3953268
SWF escape rates were barely higher than solo queue last time they showed the stats. Yes its helpful but not if you get a competent killer playing one of the several overtuned characters currently on the roster. A 4 man SWF just won't give you nearly the results of putting some hours into a S tier killer and going on 100's long winstreaks.
The last random blight with 4 slowdown perks and strong add ons I faced, I asked what his winstreak was. He said 105. I'm lucky to get 5 escapes in a night on survivor. This extreme level of disparity when it comes to rewarding experience with one role over the other is ridiculous.
You say 5 gen chases are no longer possible, meaning the maps are so worthless now, most of the time you're guaranteed to get hit once you are forced to use a strong pallet (the distance to the next is too far). In other words, survivor skill ceiling is consistently hammered down. Why then, is it always the fault of a survivor for "being outplayed" by being tunneled the moment the match starts? It's really a poor state of the game when the culmination of 1000's of hours of survivor experience has been reduced to "well you get to decide which corner of the map to die in".
So you should be able to run a killer for 5 gens, is what your saying. 3 other survivirs can play M1 sim.
Because something isn't broken like before doesn't make them useless. The same argument was said when infinites and double pallets were removed.
Still said nothing about having to rely on three other players to survive. Killers only have themselves and their skill. Survivors, no matter how good, cannot 1v1 the killer and do all 5 gens. That's the difference. The escape rate for SWF overall is much higher than average. That's because playing the solo lottery will bite you.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953244#Comment_3953244
Probably because as killer with 10k hours you'll easily have a 80%+ kill rate while playing survivor you'll likely still have around 40% escape rate at best. If experience and dedication mean you're supposed to win all your matches, why is that only the case for one side?
Maybe because it is not your own? Gone are the days of running a killer for 5 gens and escaping. (3 get out without ever seeing the killer) If you have bad teammates or get into matches where someone DCs, that becomes outside your control and skill. That is why we see higher escape rates with SWFs. Playing with three other survivors that you know and they know you really helps when it comes to working together and escaping.
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I thought that too at first. A friend and I played a custom match to test out the new killer and they just pop up behind you. Was confusing because the power said they would grab you. It wasn't until we both entered the door that it became apparent.
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@camping_site said:
It would give transparancy, what is my main point. Also Bots are not that bad of a loopers. Including these matches in stats would show, if the game was winnable or not.
At first, they may shock community that escape rate is around 15-30%, but it would curb endless killer buffs
Bots are garbage at looping. Yes, they know exactly where you are and mind games are impossible, but you can abuse their AI really easy on most tiles.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952981#Comment_3952981
If it was for balancing purposes, they'd have a functional MMR system.
Tracking a 10K hour team vs a 200 hour Killer isn't going to tell you much about balance.
It would if the killer had 10k hours on another platform…
At some point hours stop to matter. Some people are just good at games and pick up how to play fairly fast. Others can play for thousands of hours and still suck at a role.
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@camping_site said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953018#Comment_3953018
I would like to see a reference for this claim. It is a DC but without penalty.
I would like to see the reference that abandons aren't counted. Because the statement, "we don't count matches with disconnects," was before the introduction of the abandon feature. So far, neither Dev's or Mod's have said abandons are discarded.
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It's very festive.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950834#Comment_3950834
You lack clarifty in your understanding of the situation. Maybe just keep your comments to yourself until you are capable of perspective, not perception.
Lets say your DCs were 100% justified. Are you implying that everyone else that DCs are justified in doing so without repercussions? You may say, yes, all DCs are justified because the reason for it is personal to that person.
Well sorry but this is a multiplayer game with rules and expected conduct. If you don't like how matches could go and feel the need to DC so often, then find another game that you can enjoy.
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@francesinhalover said:
He needs Nerfs so fine by me.
Needs to be nerfed as in they don't care if the killer is ever played again and some openly wish that so.
The persona non grata mentailty will always follow Springtrap just like it does Skull Merchant and Kaneki. It doesn't matter how weak or unviable these killers become, there will always be this type who will demand more pounds of flesh out of sheer spite.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951561#Comment_3951561
I can’t believe that survivors can crouch walk in a small part of the map for 8.5 minutes before they get 1 crow, and 12.5 minutes before they get 3 crows.
I severely hope that when the phase 2 changes happen for camping, tunneling, and slugging, that BHVR has the same mindset that they did with the AFK crows, where the changes are so small that they are barely noticeable.
Math:
1 crow = (120 seconds / 0.25) + 30 seconds =510 seconds = 8.5 minutes.
3 crows = (180 seconds / 0.25) + 30 seconds =750 seconds = 12.5 minutes.Yeah, it's the classic panic change we all come to love from BHVR. Take an issue and flip it 180° in the wrong direction and say it's fix. If the goal was to not get crows during normal play the result was to never get crows.
Where they took it too far was the multipliers making the whole thing pointless.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I mean, I guess it's still technically better, but unless I'm missing something here the "slug for the 4k" situation is still basically a free kill.
They still haven't addressed that this is 4+ minutes of the where hiding is valid gameplay (and the only play), especially when gens still remain.
What is your definition of free?
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Nerfed from the 9.0.0 update, but nerfed or buffed from pre-9.0.0?
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If all stats on the site are reported from players, then it's inherently inaccurate. Only the most dedicated players will provide their stats consistently.
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Newer players will try to run from you through the door. You will need to hold yourself back from hitting them.
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All three are pretty trash anyways.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951762#Comment_3951762
Disliking something doesn't make it oppressive. I dislike ghost face but he's not nearly as oppressive as this. I dislike deathslinger as well but he's not even considered a decent killer. I think you're trying to put all blame on one side when the thread is saying that he's more bugged and that's being taken advantage of.
Did I misunderstand the question? I thought you were asking why other survivors were finding him oppressive. Also that you were unable to determine that yourself because you don't find him OP.
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No Springtraps? Are we done with the new killer already?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
who'd have guessed that overhauling the rarity system & removing the event rarity for no actual reason would backfire
oh, wait, everyone
what rarity are event items now?
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I haven't seen an anti-NOED post in a long time.
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Houndmaster mean business.
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Are you going to make one for camping too? If I remember correctly, we didn't have any tunneling fixes last year. Did you make a daily brief then?
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951768#Comment_3951768
That's too black and white. Even in my ideal scenario, it's not so much that it's acceptable as it is a necessary evil. As long as it's an option in the game, players will use it. If the penalties are going to be so severe, it shouldn't even be an option in the first place (although that still doesn't address issues like server failures which are a real problem and are getting worse).
The very best you can do is mitigate the damage, which the bots and the abandon features do. Changes that lock players out of the queue and force them to wait it out in real time like being sat in the corner are objectively bad. Maybe that has a place in very strict, competitive games where MMR is a very big deal. But if we're being honest, DBD is not that kind of game.
ok, remove the leave button. It was always stated to be for emergencies but if people start showing up to the ER for paper cuts then something is wrong.
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@gingerGeorge12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951750#Comment_3951750
What do you mean by non-regression effect?
I figured since the point wasn't the regression then you would be talking about other affects that come with kicking gens. Dragon's Grip, Nowhere to Hide, or Trail of Torment.
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@Zboard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951638#Comment_3951638
Did you try going survivor? My games have been triple tunneling at 4/5 gens half of the time, and usually there's some tunneling/camping/slugging at 4/5 gens… so idk Rick
See my other response. Events such as the anniversary bring back players that don't play regularly. You also have the trolls that hate the game and will purposely play in a way to upset others just to get posts like this.
What I'm saying is, players are going to play the same as they always do. Killers that play chill in normal queue won't suddenly go full tryhard sweat by clicking on event queue.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951652#Comment_3951652
All of these complaints go to BHVR. I don't blame players for using what's at their disposal, despite how good or bad they are.
I'm just saying that advocating for unhealthy changes in the mirco will have macro consequences.
But this is not a bad change. What's bad was allowing players to think DCing was exceptable for years.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951028#Comment_3951028
My question was more on why he's so oppressive, not really why he's disliked.
He's oppressive because he's disliked. Some survivors believe they have no chance against some killers so they stop trying to get better.
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@gingerGeorge12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951626#Comment_3951626
Not necessarily but to stop it from affecting killers in the early to mid game
How so? Maybe instead of asking for this, ask for non-regression effects to still apply when the limit is reached?
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951623#Comment_3951623
It doesn't have to be us vs them at all. If you disproportionally affect one side, it means they'll queue for the other side or leave entirely. Killers typically go next during the match screen and the pre-loading screen, hence the changes were made primarily with Survivor in mind. AFK does affect Killer, but not to the same extent as they're again not the focus (crows being the obvious core of the mechanic). Regardless of anything else, that's enough to push players out of a role that feels micromanaged. Is it not? It seems they've backed off of both of those ideas for now, but that sort of thinking is what leads to real problems.
If you want to play hall monitor and avoid the elephant in the room, then again, you're thinking like BHVR. It'll maintain the high turnover rate, make queues even longer, and the balance will still be all over the place.
Any time after the timer reaches 0 is the starting line for me. If you think killers are getting away with DCing during loading then make that complaint to BHVR.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951638#Comment_3951638
Tunneling and Slugging is definitely more prevalent in the event than normal.
I think its the same as rank reset back in the day. Some players only play during special events.
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I don't believe killers are changing how they play just because its an event. If they play that way in an event that's how they play normally.
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Is it fair that a survivor can just go through the door to escape a chase? These don't work like teleports on that one map where the destinations are the same everytime.
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Are you trying to protect your 3 gen from the start? Because that's the only use case I see here.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951556#Comment_3951556
Correct, I am arguing that. I don't think that the penalty should matter once you're outside of the game. Either way, the player leaves until they come back. If you wait to dole out punishments until they're ready to play, they won't play. That affects queue times. If the punishments favor Killer over Survivor (which to be fair, go next and AFK do affect both but to differing degrees), then the queue gets longer. Then by your suggestion, they're filtered into a separate queue, so the queue gets longer.
You have to employ big picture thinking with these things. Just because it doesn't directly affect you doesn't mean it won't affect you or the game at all.
Yep, I knew exactly where you were coming from.
To make this a killer/survivor is short sighted. I want killers that DC when the exit gates power punished just as much as the survivor that gives up on first hook or tries to "go next" by whatever form it takes now.
And yes it will affect the game, for the better. Weeding out those who agree to a 10 minute match just to quit after 2. Good riddance. I welcome those that actually want to play the game.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951421#Comment_3951421
Sure it was killswitched, but were the penalties reverted? Will the system come back and have the same issues? Possibly. My point still stands. There's no good reason to make it so the penalty only goes down while in-game or as slowly as a 20 trial basis. Despite the efforts to make the game competitive, it still has a casual core and long and brutal penalties run counter to that.
Your suggestions would kill the queue, but they're the kinds of things BHVR is interested in listening to now. So it'll probably be a thing eventually.
There's plenty of good reason and I don't believe your issue is truly with false possitives. I thing you are hiding behide that reason in order to leave a match and come back the next day like nothing happened. There's no good reason to have a queue penalty if you never see it.
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What happens if you get 4 good survivors that are solo? Will you still have an issue with not killing any if then or not getting many hooks?