Moundshroud
Moundshroud
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646601#Comment_1646601
1)"You seem unable to tell the difference between apples and oranges"
No I'm not. You're going to have to qualify this because it doesn't make sense at all in regards to anything we have already discussed. I imagine you won't even explain what you meant by this.
2)"In other words, you don't like a certain situation at the end, so you advocated cheating as a solution to it"
I can't imagine what it's like to be you. So small that that most amount of power you could possibly hope to latch onto is misrepresenting all of someone's arguments just so you could get them banned. You're pathetic. Maybe you feel cheated, but I suggested that not everyone in that situation is cheated which is undoubtedly true since it does give someone the opportunity to escape. Secondly, a killer who slugs to circumvent the hatch mechanic should be construed as cheating. I'm not suggesting people should cheat, but obviously there's a reason people are DCing and you need to figure out why if you want it to stop happening. The fact that slugging to avoid a mechanic put in the game to help survivor's is being used that means that cheating has been made officially okay'd by the team and apparently is supported by the mods. It is not an honorable thing to do no matter what anyone says. I've done it before out of pettiness but it doesn't sit right with me still. Obviously there's a problem whether you want to admit it or not but the sooner you do the sooner we can have a real discussion.
3)"My advice, and this is given in good faith and not snarky sarcasm, is that you need to be able to tell these very different topics apart"
"You SHOULD start a new Discussion making suggestions on what you think would be a good idea for the end of a match"
"But the discussion in this thread is about the problem with people disconnecting"
Look at these three statements. First you say that I'm not following the topic, then you suggest I start another thread discussing on how to fix the game so people don't DC, then you say that this discussion is about people disconnecting. I'm posting the underlying answers to why people DC. That is why it is relevant. This thread wasn't designed so you could have a whining-fest about people leaving the game. We're punching past that and getting to the bottom of why people are disconnecting. It's not just one issue either. Ending crappy matches early in a decisive way without cheating people is only one solution.
4)"You made the mistake of advocating CHEATING. Apparently, in your mind, if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game"
I said I have done it because I felt it was altruistic. I didn't market it, I just put my spin on it. It's how I feel. The killers that slug the penultimate player to override the hatch measure should be construed as cheating and I don't care what anyone says. It's putting someone in a painful situation just so you could squeeze out another kill when you've already won the game. The best game of killer I have EVER had was playing against a group and it was a tight match. I left one slugged so I could get the other and I did. But the one I slugged knew where hatch was and I knew he was close so I left the last guy down to walk over to him- but he DC'd. The penultimate player I originally left slugged made it to the hatch because his buddy took a five minute timer penalty and loss of blood points for him. It was an ultimate act of sacrifice in a tight game. I abused the hatch measures so I could get them all because I knew they were good. According to you, he cheated me, but it was such a bro-tier move I couldn't help but respect them for it. I think I left an impression because the guy that got away played with me randomly later as killer-using my same perks and my same devilface-classicrobes outfit. It's the only game I actually distinctively remember all the details of and probably the only one that I'll remember in the future. My point is that it may seem unethical to you but it is certainly not immoral even though you act like it is, and it is no more unethical than what I did when I tried to cheat them out of the hatch. If I got to replay that game over and over with different people knowing that I would be "cheated"(according to you), I would do it. Not telling you that you should in the case you think I'm still telling you that you have to do this. According to you I should be the victim in this scenario but I certainly don't feel that way.
Well, I was hopeful, but not optimistic. You fail in every way imaginable, analytically, rhetorically, and more importantly... ethically. I'm trying to do you a favor here. I don't know if you have noticed, but you aren't winning anyone over to your side. In fact, every time you post you dig yourself in a little deeper. I'm not into clubbing baby seals, so I'm tired of this. However, just be aware... every time you make a post advocating cheating... people are going to call you on it.
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Oddly enough the Pumpkinhead demon looks rather similar to the Demo, so that could be bad or useful since they would have a model already built that they could mod to change. The issue with Lance being the Survivor is that he is the one who summoned Pumpkinhead and set it on the College kids who killed his kids. He feels remorse and does the right thing at the end, but he isn't really a Survivor per say. Lance would also be pricey, I suspect. :)
There are other cult classics like Rawhead Rex, Cenobites, and the Nightbreed. Likewise, there are the killer puppets from Puppetmaster too. Sam from Trick 'R Treat would make my decade, and of course we would all love to see Chucky/Bride of Chucky (like Legion you would choose your favorite doll).
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@TransverseCaster said:
1)"What you're advocating is, like I'd mentioned above, taking the ball because you're mad and BOO-HOO-HOOING all the way home"
You want me to read your novel after opening up like this? Are you trying to be persuasive? If so, why bother putting this at the forefront? It is frustrating having to be slugged at the end of games. That's not that objectionable.
2)"Do you think if all 4 survivors are getting ready to escape, it's cool for the killer to just disconnect?"
I feel like you're baiting me into something you can report like someone else has already done, but yes I do. To be clear I'm not advocating DC'ing. I can understand the impulse and I've never been angry from a killer DC'ing. If a killer DCs I am cool with it.
3)"When you can't accept the game and conditions as they exist, YOU SIMPLY DO NOT PLAY. That is the only reasonable, rational, and adult thing to do. You flow with the game established (even parts you dislike) instead of childishly abandoning it"
This is actually the childish thing to do. Kicking and pouting whenever someone points out an obvious flaw that occurs regularly is not a reasonable thing to do. Acknowledge that the problem exists instead of ignoring it, or argue a way around it. Obviously you cannot argue or debate how annoying being slugged is just so the 3k can be a 4k. You want people to stare at a screen for the sake of your meager pride. That's not fun. That's not fair. If there is a problem it should be fixed- not ignored as you would have it (for some reason).
4)"The whole idea of a game is a fun/light experience"
Exactly- so why are you ignoring an obvious and consistent problem faced by tens of thousands of players whenever they log on? There obviously needs to be a solution to this. And no, your "suck it up" is not fair for people who put time and money into it. You do not have an answer so you choose to essentially reject any answer there is. There is obviously a problem. You regard that people are DCing but fail to understand or even entertain why anyone would feel that way. Whether you like it or not it's going to keep happening and the longer you fail to realize why people aren't having fun with you the problem is only going escalate.
5)"Yesterday I stopped after hooking everyone twice when the whole match was ruined by yet another entitled child who felt getting downed makes it totes fair to DC"
The hilarious thing about your last paragraph is that you admitted that other people have mercy but you don't and you can't figure out why people don't like playing with you. You are not fun to play with. People don't have to like you. If you know you're playing badly it's not everyone else's fault: it is yours. You need to grow up and take responsibility instead of exploiting no-win scenarios.
6) " That's not sensible as any move, let alone the best idea."
"there's literally no point waiting."
Actually it is, by your logic and others, very prudent to just knock all of the survivors and let them bleed out until the second to last gets killed then pickup the final survivor before an ADR can activate. Not only because DS lasts a long time and I'm not a human clock but also because it means there is a zero percent chance of hatch if you follow that routine every single time. If you pick them up as fast as possible that entails a chance at hatch for one of the slugged people(which is the whole reason you slug the second to last player anyways-you've admitted you do this already). So far, everyone who is hurt by DCs occurring seems to think the idea of two or more people staring at their downed avatars for a few minutes doing literally nothing is supposed to be fair. I'm not sure how these horrible ideas of unfairness were inculcated but it is not healthy for the game or the community.
I'm going to take another stab at this, and I know I'll regret it. You seem unable to tell the difference between apples and oranges. In other words, you don't like a certain situation at the end, so you advocated cheating as a solution to it. You portrayed this act as some kind of noble, selfless nonsense. That isn't fooling anyone. Whether we agree or disagree with you about there being an option added for someone to accelerate their ability to bleed out, nobody but other reprehensible cheats (and you are actually in the minority) is going to agree with you advocating that people break the rules.
My advice, and this is given in good faith and not snarky sarcasm, is that you need to be able to tell these very different topics apart. You SHOULD start a new Discussion making suggestions on what you think would be a good idea for the end of a match, i.e. a way to start to bleed out faster. I would humbly suggest that it would NOT be instant (like a disconnect) but more like the accelerating one's time on the hook. Nobody would be arguing with you. Some of us (perhaps even me) might agree that this would be an interesting discussion and/or addition.
But the discussion in this thread is about the problem with people disconnecting. The only reason anyone should ever be disconnecting is because their internet fails, their system crashes, or a real life emergency pulls them away. Doing so for any other reason, particularly to try and affect the outcome of the match, is at best rude and disrespectful, and at worst outright cheating. You made the mistake of advocating CHEATING. Apparently, in your mind, if you feel something in the game is wrong, it gives you the right to violate the standards of the game. It does not. I'm an optimistic person, and I really want to see the best in everyone. I'm hoping laying it out this way will get through to you.
I go by the following rules:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and courteous in defeat.
Some games are going to go wrong. Some games are going to end up with you on the ground for most of the match, or tunneled and hooked enjoying a Mori without ever really having a chance. I had all of those happen to me today. It is part of the game. You shrug off the defeats, and learn whatever you can from them.
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@Dhurl421 said:
I've been playing DBD for about 3 months as solo Survivor. Currently Rank 8, but I still have a 50/50 shot of being a pretty decent looper, or potato.
Thanks to daily challenges and getting sacrificed more often the higher I rank up, I've considered trying out Killer. This is because I've seen on the forums (and it makes sense) that to play one side helps when playing the other.
I'd love to improve my Survivor play by being Killer for awhile. But as much as I have played Survivor, being that I'm not a god looper I'm not sure the experience will give me any adavantage from the get go (SWF and new Killer experiences from the forums don't help).
Is there a level of decency you need as Survivor to be a decent Killer? If not, just any tips from these Killers that keep wrecking me as Survivor would be much appreciated.
No, not really. The key thing you learn as a Survivor (which you already know) which helps you become a better Killer is HOW they think. You know where they are likely to go, how they are likely to hide near a Generator when they hear a Killer coming so that when he/she moves on that they will come right back to it. In other words, being a God of looping won't really help you as a Killer because the two Skills, looping and chasing a looper are just different enough. Basically, a Killer just needs to be able to discern when to continue a chase and when to break it off. So you probably already have enough knowledge to know when you will be wasting too much time because the Survivor has all the tools, good pallets, windows, etc. Does that make sense?
If you have been playing as a Survivor you know how they approach a map. That is the big take away. So dive into Killer; my personal suggestion is Michael Myers (I'm biased of course) because there are so many different builds that you can really come up with your own style. Nurse and Blight are wicked powerful, but have a STEEP learning curve. You will suck at them a long time before you get good. Spirit is also very powerful but her learning curve isn't bad.
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I'm having lots of fun as a Killer (and Survivor too). Fun has nothing to do with winning or losing, it is the thrill of competition. I find the hackers to be a problem, and the constant Salt annoying, but the games continues to be fun and most of the people I deal with are great. I've not reached anywhere near the tipping point. You get out of a game what you put into it. If you are once of those people who only has fun when you win, well this might not be the best game for you.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646039#Comment_1646039
"and it is embarrassing for you that you are unable to understand this. Disconnecting to affect change a game outcome is using an outside the game method. It is called CHEATING"
The only circumstance that I mentioned is one where one person is slugged on the ground and the other person still has a chance at escaping. The game should not be designed where an altruistic action is punished and a person has to sit there on the ground for several minutes while the other two play the game. That is poor design, no way around it. Maybe they should put in a seppuku button for that scenario or something because it is not immersive, it is not fun, and a player should not be punished for not wanting to writhe around on the ground for five minutes because the killer wants a 4k.
"There is a way to help your fellow Survivor that is within the game"
I'm obviously not talking about that scenario. I'm talking about two people left, one slugged on the deck and the killer really wants that last kill so they don't hook. Obviously if there are other options then use them but sometimes there aren't. It is extremely common for me to be slugged at the end game and just sit there doing nothing while my teammate could be going for hatch. It's actually penalizing that teammate because the killer now has an unfair lead on looking for hatch.
" Seriously, what is your mental malfunction? This isn't hard."
No, it isn't. I've already told you the circumstance where this option is desirable due to a gameplay flaw. If you ignored it, it's because you are afraid of admitting there is a mistake with that slug-hatch scenario.
"Your intent is to cheat; you admit it. You seem proud of it."
You couldn't be more wrong. If a person is slugged and not doing anything while their teammate is debilitated then obviously the game design did not account for this. It's a crappy situation that devalues altruism. You're drawing these very personal assumptions where they don't belong. Maybe take a break for the game or something because you seem a little too hurt by all of this.
"There is literally nothing I can say that makes you look worse than you do yourself."
If a survivor feels they have to DC in order to save a teammate or not be staring at a slug for five minutes then that's the game's fault-not anyone else's. Maybe stop slugging the third person because you desperately crave that final kill.
Again, what you are doing is NO DIFFERENT from creating a Lag Spike to help your friend avoid a hit or get out the gate. That is the context.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641636#Comment_1641636
" It is a selfish, abusive act"
First off, there's no reason not to be selfish. Second of all, as a survivor you're part of a team. If you can help someone get out on your team, that is selfless. Thirdly this has nothing to do with abuse. If you feel abused from video games you should not be buying nor playing them. Grow up.
No, again... and it is embarrassing for you that you are unable to understand this. Disconnecting to change a game's outcome is using something outside the rules. It is called CHEATING. It makes you a dirty, reprehensible cheat. You cheated another Player in the game. There is a reason that there are disconnect penalties. The only reason they are off currently is because hackers keep messing with innocent people, you know... people who AREN'T dirty reprehensible cheats.
There is a way to help your fellow Survivor that is within the game. It is already provided for, i.e. you can get into a chase, you can lead that Killer off, and you can even sacrifice yourself on the hook to take yourself out of the game. This isn't hard. If you use something OUTSIDE the game, to change the outcome of a game, you are cheating. Your intent is to cheat; you admit it. You seem proud of it. There is literally nothing I can say that makes you look worse than you do yourself.
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I have a NEW one for worst, i.e. a team of (2) Turncoat Survivors and one Killer. Somehow they are hacking and get into the same match with each other. The Turncoats are always exactly the same dress. I've seen them as identical Dwights in Elf costumes and once in identical Meg outfits. From the very start they body block, farm, and try to lure the other two Survivors. After these two are farmed out, they stay with the Killer and maximize points among them.
I recorded this (two different games) watching the Killer walk into a room where they are working on a Gen look at them and then go back out ignoring them. One time one farmed me off the hook and stood there so I could be Mori'd and they didn't do anything to one another. What they didn't count on is I stayed to spectate and CONTINUE recording.
So what is the word on this new hack? This team only works if they can guarantee they end up with their SWF Killer friend?
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@BabyDweetMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1642887#Comment_1642887
That can be argued that ruin applies the pressure for you. Making it a crutch perk.
Anything can be argued, but that doesn't make it a GOOD argument. Ruin ONLY regresses a Generator when the Survivor stops working on it, period. Pressure only comes from a Killer pushing you off a Generator. They are mutually exclusive. If the Killer is not applying pressure, i.e. running patrols, Ruin does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If you push through and do a Generator in one sitting, Ruin never regressed anything.
So this "argument" you speak of is utterly without merit. It can be invalidated instantly. Pressure can only come from the Killer. Regressing the Generator is NOT pressure. It is a side-effect of Pressure. I'm sure you can see the point.
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@MadLordJack said:
People see it game after game after game. Even Soul Guard hasn't been alleviating the pressure: you don't need to slug to win if the totems are hidden and teammates are being morons.
However, while I do think that it needs tweaking in the Ruin department (the reason the nerf was a nerf was because the totem usually went super quick without the chance to work, now it's likely it'll last the whole trial), I don't think that it is as bad as some people say it is. If survivors just did bones, which I know sounds extremely hypocritical coming from me but Undying isn't NOED and shouldn't be treated as such, then the problem would be alleviated.
I think that the biggest issue is that it's a solo-killer combo. SWF can still rock up with all the meta perks they want and just co-ordinate, solo's are forced to run anti-totem perks that eat into their builds. And I'm not talking about micro-pp solo's running DS/UB/SG/DH, I'm talking about EVERYONE.
I agree that it is harder on Solos, and that is the problem with mixing Solo and Group/Team Ques. All their solutions to deal with the Gen-Rush, SWF issue have been Perks to help slow things back down. These hit Solo disproportionately hard. It would have been better, and is still unavoidable in the long run in my opinion, to create the two Ques to balance the 5th Perk SWF get (Comms). That Que could have simply had another Generator required to power the gates AND activate a 5th Perk Slot for Killers.
In that way, the DEV can balance for the SWF without putting their boot on the neck of Solo. I'm pragmatic about it. The issue has been and will ALWAYS be SWF. The problem only gets more complicated every day as MORE AND MORE SWF groups play, and the ones we have get more practiced at coordinating the advantage it provides. I'm not against people playing with their friends. I just think we need a Group/Team/League Que to balance for them without strangling the Solos. :)
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Well, personally, I'd rather see a chapter spent locking the system down from hackers, and tracking lag spike players, and so on so that that scourge is dealt with.
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There is nothing wrong with the combination. Is it effective? Yes and no. It is only as effective as the Killer is at running patrols and keeping up Generator pressure. High mobility Killers are better at patrolling generators; that is just a fact, but just because they CAN doesn't mean they DO. There are all sorts of things you can do to ensure that when your Generator hits 70% the Killer is otherwise occupied, not the least of which is <GASP> someone can sucker the Killer into a chase and potentially take a hit or a down.
Let's face facts, most of us use the Killer chasing someone and downing them (watching the auras) to know where the Killer is, how far away they are, to finish whatever generator we happen to be working on at the time. It is possible, because my friends and I do it, to work a Generator to near the tipping point, pause for a one of us to get that looping going, and then the others resume. The Killer has to either break off a chase, drop carrying the person downed, or go through and finish the hooking process. The Generator can be finished.
That is but one strategy. I want to point out that things ARE getting more complex for both Killers and Survivors. You are going to have to take hits these days, and even hooks to help the team get done. The Killer must make hard choices about who to go after, chases or even sure thing hooks to abandon. This game is always changing. You adapt or you die. What is going on right now is this:
- The Gen-Rush is a problem Killers have been facing for a LONG time and their best option has been to get REALLY efficient at patrols.
- Survivors have spent most of their time only practicing the Gen-Rush, relying on the fact that the situation always favored them.
- Suddenly time no longer favors them, and the Killers are HONED for good patrols while the Survivors let their other Skills wither.
Do you see my point? All those OTHER Skills the Survivors let wither while insanely focused on the Gen-Rush are now necessary, and well... there is going to be a period of readjustment. It doesn't mean this combination is overpowered. It means you have to use those Skills that have gotten rusty.
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@bubbabrotha said:
People are saying it's the brain dead killer meta but, ruin only works if the killer is applying pressure. Immediately the opposite of brain dead. Tinkerer I can agree on as it doesn't really require input, but it's not very powerful. As for undying, just do more bones! Save a perk slot and equip detectives hunch, your team will thank you. Plus there is a 50/50 chance that you cleanse undying first.
Please keep this discussion civil, as I don't want to start a flame war.
It is because some Players seem to enjoy whining and whinging more than playing the actual game. Rather than adapt and learn to do what they must to adapt to the new reality, i.e. one that requires you to do Bones or have someone Loop the Killer while pushing through a Generator entirely, they would rather rant and spew their ire. That build (and some others I like more) require the Killer to be proactive, do proper patrols and keep up Generator pressure or it is just a waste of Perk Slots.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1641539#Comment_1641539
I don't see your point at all. It's the same difference with the inclusion of a bait, which might backfire.
I know you can't see my point; this is because you are a self-involved, cheating Player. You disregard the fact that the Killer is also a Player and your "disconnecting" to give the other Survivor Hatch is taking advantage of something outside the game. In the process, you are denying the Killer Player potential points and advancement toward an Emblem for hooking you, and potentially the other Survivor too. It is a selfish, abusive act. It shows you have the mindset of a cheat. It shows you have no regard for fairness or the Killer's Player.
Again, if you want to show ACTUAL respect, you would take yourself out in a manner that is:
- Within the game, i.e. get hooked and sacrifice yourself out.
- Considers all the Players in the game.
- And respect the community in general.
The fact that you cannot discern or understand the point I'm making is a sad statement about yourself. I will try to hold out hope that you will figure out the basics of ethics and good sportsmanship. I'm just not holding my breath. The sooner you, and your ilk, are relegated to a Que made up of people who disconnect, the better. You can all play and DC on each other all you like.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194042/so-many-dcs
If two people are left and there is no chance of winning, then it's respectful to DC so the other person can get the hatch.
No, it is not. If you want to be respectful, remember that the other Survivor isn't the only other PLAYER in the game. If you are truly want to be respectful you can go out and enter into a chase with the Killer, get yourself downed and hooked. That would ALSO result in the other Player having a shot at the hatch. Do you see my point?
Your idea of respect ignores an entire Player that you are seeking to cheat.
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Nothing is wrong with Undying. I'm sorry you have to work a bit harder and have more objectives now. Bones were always supposed to be important. Deal with them, or not. I don't really care.
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I've had these weirdos try and work with me in game MANY times. They don't run and will make gestures like they are pointing and clearly inferring what the want to do. I down them and take them to the basement. If they get taken off the hook, I immediately tunnel them. If I have a Mori I eliminate them. They are cheats, rats.... fleas on rats.... plague carried by fleas on rats.
Of course the other Survivors have no idea. They just see me as a tunneling creepo. :)
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The kind of Players that call you a Camper and try to grief/shame you are the kind of people that are going to accuse you of it whether you do it or not. I wouldn't worry about hot piles of garbage or what they think. It is annoying and poor sportsmanship, but all you can do is report them in game when they cross the line with the behavior.
All that being said, normal people who understand this game and actually managed to grow up a bit, aren't going to grief you or say ANYTHING about it. Even if they think it, they will keep the comments to themselves and either give you a GG or say nothing at all. And even BETTER people understand the game completely and its tactics and don't care what you do. They will still give you a GG and just enjoy the game for the sake of the competition win or lose.
So, don't worry about these terms. You should camp, tunnel, slug, or Mori if the tactic is right in a given match. Most of these are special purpose tools and when used correctly are effective, but when used at the wrong time will hurt YOU, not the Survivors. You do you, and don't worry about idiotic terms like "toxic" either because it is entirely subjective and meaningless.
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The Lore says the Entity is about crushing their hope, through an ENDLESS series of trials. It doesn't matter if they die fast in one and get hooked three times in another. No individual trial matters, it is the endless grind.
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I appreciate the effort put into this but I don't think it is a great fit. I think if ANYONE should have access to a gun it would be Ash, i.e. his double-barrel shotgun. Make it an Ultra Rare (BOOM STICK) and if taken he starts with two shots loaded. They can stun a Killer like a DS. Then make another Rare item or Ultra rare that give him two more rounds (RELOAD). But then again, I also think an add-on for him could be his chainsaw replacing the puppet that can also, at best, have a short bit of fuel and can stun a Killer or affect the breakable walls.
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I get a huge map, I pick my 3-Gen Lock and pretty much only orbit that area taking what falls my way. The simple truth is I play Myers and Rotten Fields is impossible for him to patrol efficiently. Even attempting it just all but assures (unless my Survivors screw up) that I'll lose any defensible 3-Gen and be lucky to get a 1K. So, I make a choice early depending on the Map and my build.
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Me and mine would be down. I personally wish all Group play was broken into its own League Que (solve about 75% of current balance issues) and have the DEV tracking standings and such. :) But lacking that being setup yet, I think playing in a league would be great.
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The hackers are the reason I say don't ban them, let DC types just get sorted into a separate Que full of, you guessed it, other people with a strong propensity to disconnect. They deserve each other.
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@BitingSea said:
Like 5 times in 2 minutes survivors have loaded in a full game, then all left. Why?
Did you have a secret offering? It could be some of them are using a hack that lets them see which Killer you are and are dodging you.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640851#Comment_1640851
I can get around to this idea l. Then we nerf moris and keys and continue on whole game balance and we good.
Well, I don't know about that. I don't really have a problem with Keys or the Mori. To me they are just another aspect of the game. I don't give people grief about using either. If they change them, they change them. If they stay, they stay.
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I think Ormond is VERY strong for Survivors, however, there are clearly Killers who are less troubled by it. Ambush Killers (Spooky Myers, Pig, Ghostface, Wraith) aren't really inconvenienced because they don't really rely on the chase. Killers like Nurse and the Spirit likewise have good options and Ormond isn't really any worse for them than any other map.
I just chalk up Ormond being a bad draw if I'm not one of those Killers.
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@azame said:
It's like every perk you run as a survivor is considered a crutch. Whatnso you want me to do put on dark sense? I mean if you wanna call survivor perks crutches so are killers. Arent crutches just anything that helps you?
Either stop calling every good survivor perm a crutch or admit technically every perk I ls a crutch killer or survivor.
I agree that I think it is silly to shame/grief any Survivor or Killer over their Perk choices. How we build our respective roles is our own business. Calling any Perk a "crutch" is insulting and clearly being a bad sport. I don't like it when people grief Killers over NOED, and I find it equally tiresome to here people complain about DS+Whatever. Killers gonna kill, and Survivors going to survive. They use the tools provided, and insulting or shaming them about it is the behavior of a spoiled, entitled eight year old throwing a tantrum.
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I'm not sure where this notion that Ruin (+anything) is easy and requires no Skill. Hex: Ruin only works if the Killer is running good routes and keeps up good Generator pressure. If they don't, Ruin doesn't matter at all. It would be like playing one Perk down. The credibility of people making such idiotic statements comes seriously into question. They either don't fully understand how this game is played, how Ruin works, or what Killers must do to achieve their objective, OR they do know and are simply Salty, poor sports outright lying to support their half-baked ideas. I wish there was another option. Let me reiterate FACTS:
1. Ruin only regresses a Generator after a Survivor gets off of it. This means the Killer is applying skill to get you off of it.
2. Undying protects other Hexes, and thus if the Killer isn't putting Generator pressure on, protecting Ruin is net loss two Perks
Killers have a lot of Skills they must learn and balance to achieve their objectives. One of the most important ones is how to patrol Generators efficiently to find Survivors and be a good Gatekeeper. It is ONE of the Killer's main Emblems. Balancing patrols against chases, hooking, baiting, mind games, and the odd, monstrously big map isn't a simple task. When I hear people make stupid statements about Ruin or Ruin+Whatever, it puts me in the unfortunate position of assuming you are either ignorant or a liar. I'm a nice person, in general, and I would prefer you not make me think the worst of you.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640619#Comment_1640619
Do you play on PC? Do you think it is more of a platform thing? I just don't see it as often, but I do try to play as fair as possible. Not that the tactics used should matter in how someone responds to defeat.
My question about rank was really referring to OP. I was curious if he was indeed a rank 20 and as such are these baby survivors really running around tbagging?
I do play on the PC. And I love the Cross Play because Console players are silent, so I don't hear them say ANYTHING. :) So I would expect since Console Players seem to have fewer options to be bad sports, that perhaps that is why Console players often don't understand how much PC Players encounter.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640529#Comment_1640529
It is not toxic survivors, it is toxic players. If you have a "toxic" play style you will probably bring that attitude to whatever role you choose to play that day.
I would agree with this in general, as I think someone who behaves like hot garbage in one role, would certainly not become a saint in the other. However, judging by my own experience, most people must not play both in equal measure as I simply don't see the kind of horrors from Killers that I do from Survivors. I play both roles equal, and I accept that how I'm treated as a Killer will be VERY different.
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@Clevite said:
I have read a lot of these comments and it seems everyone's experiences are so different. I have had some terrible death threats but I have not gotten one in a long time. It is terrible if people are getting destructive messages, especially if it is happening on the regular.
I just do not see this toxicity that many say is so rampant.
I wonder if it is more prevalent on some platforms over others.
With that said, I gotta wonder about OP's post here. 75% are jerks. I just don't see this at all. Also If you never play killer are you a rank 20. Are you telling me rank 20s are running around just tea bagging killers now?
And are teabags that big of a deal. I mean I would argue straight face camping would be less fun than a couple pixelated squats. Neither one would I consider toxic tho,
Well I'm a Rank 4 Killer now (slide back to 5 and 6 often and then fight my way back down) and I would LOVE to report that potent Ranked Survivors have fewer creeps, but sadly that isn't the case. What does happen is you get a LOT more proactive, good sport Survivors who talk and give you a GG to make the jerks less irksome.
So it works like this.... I get the same 40-50% behaving badly, but the percentage of really good post game chatter goes up from 10-20% to about 40-50%. You get more good, proactive folks, but no fewer human garbage. :) Sadly, I see about the same number of hacks and lag spikes. That seems a constant at all levels.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640536#Comment_1640536
Quote from the OP: “I left them all dying on the ground” - because one guy teabagged and they tried to save him from the hook.
That’s what I’m calling pathetic, not the fact that they slugged people. Slugging is a normal part of killer gameplay. Leaving four people to bleed out for 4 minutes because someone teabagged you just signals a fragile ego.
Sure, letting them all bleed out is juvenile and bad sportsmanship. It is also stupid as it isn't worth near as many points. But I thought you were talking about slugging in a BROADER context, not that specific example. I see people getting on the case of Killers all the time for using Slugging as a strategy to win, not irritate. So I'll cede that I missed the context you were inferring and I should have caught it. Yeah, if a Killer did that to me, I would certainly report it. I have, in fact, reported a similar incident where I was forced to watch a Ghostface teabag me while I bled out. But in general, Killers who behave this way are really RARE. When they come up, they sure as heck get reported.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640553#Comment_1640553
Personal experience isn't a good measure. Survivors encounter survivors 3x more than they do killers and killers mains don't encounter any killers. Your personal experience doesn't mean much when it comes to which side is more toxic with numbers skewed that much. Of course to the average player it'll seem like there are far more meanie survivors than killers when it's a 4-1 ratio. Anecdotal evidence is terrible on it's own. It's even worse with DBD. You're experience is that killers are nicer and don't hack as much because there are far less killers and you see even fewer compared to survivors.
I don't really care much about toxicity. I think it's kinda funny if survivors are mad enough to be toxic after the game. If I used my own experience of course I'd think survivors are more toxic, but I almost never play survivor so I don't even see killers. When I do play survivor for challenges I see plenty of toxic killers.
Personal experience is all we have to go by, and I make every post with the caveat that these are my experiences. The only bad experience I've had with a Killer was Ghostface who slugged me as the ONLY Survivor left and made me watch him teabag me for 3+ minutes while I bled out. That one really got under my skin because what kind of mental defective does that? But beyond that, I simply have nothing involving Killers that rises to the point of being the so-called toxic.
You say you see plenty of them. What are YOU defining as toxic so we have some context. I told you my standards.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640530#Comment_1640530
I never said they weren't strategies. I main killer... I know you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. I said it's biased to not care when that's happening to you, but to get butthurt when you see a model move up and down or hear a flashlight click a few times. Both sides are full of toxic douches, but you don't see many douche killers in high ranks. Those killers derank on purpose to bully low rank survivors. Obviously report cheaters and people calling you slurs and giving death threats. Don't say 9/10 killers aren't toxic because the only reason they're saying "gg" when they lose is because if they don't they're gonna have 4 people talk ######### to them after they already took an L lol
But most Killers, by my standards, are NOT toxic. That nine out of ten being non-toxic is actually my experience. Remember, the only thing I require of a player to be considered a good sport is:
- Don't cheat, either with hacks or lag.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
I've yet to run into a Killer hacking or using lag, or if I did it was subtle enough that I didn't catch it. Only once a great while perhaps one in twenty games or so, do I have a Killer disconnect. And I've never had a Killer go GG EZ or tell me to uninstall, or any of that stuff. Killers are either silent or just give me a GG at the end. They will actually be friendly and give more if a Survivor includes them. So that nine out of ten Killers are great, is probably even underestimating how nice they are if I was really to do the math.
Survivors (and remember I play one too) well... there are MORE of them and I see cheats all the time, disconnects every other game, and an utter lack of humility and graciousness far too regularly. I'm not trying to be biased; I wish this wasn't true. Sadly, it is.
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@xenotimebong said:
Why do people get so enraged by survivors teabagging? I’ll never understand it.
Teabag me all you want, it’s an action that does absolutely nothing and in many cases actually harms your ability to escape. It’s no different from killers nodding or shaking their head at you after downing you, it’s such a non-issue that it’s nothing but petty to complain about it. Slugging the entire team at once because they tried to save a teammate that teabagged you is extremely pathetic.
Taking down the entire team is the Killer's job. It cannot, by definition, be pathetic. If the entire team of Survivors run up to get slugged, why wouldn't the Killer do it? Some Killers are even designed by their Power and Perks to be slugging specialists. Don't blame the Killer for doing their job. If you have someone on your team being a bad sport and tea-bagging, why are you all so gung-ho to give up a 4K for that person? I mean, I'm going to try and rescue another Survivor, but if everyone get slugged, it either means EVERYONE went in at once (you chose this tactic and the risk assessment was yours to make), or one person went and got slugged, the team saw it and still sent another, and then another. At what point does one take responsibility for their own bad judgement?
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1639845#Comment_1639845
This post is so biased. You record and report players for teabagging, but you're cool with killers literally face camping you and actually tunneling you off hook and using a mori. I find it much more enjoyable to have a bit of a teabag session with a survivor than I would to get face camped and hit with a mori off hook.
There are in-game tactics and strategies, and there is out-of-game disrespect. But no, you are incorrect, I do NOT report people for Tea-bagging. While obnoxious, that is probably the mildest form of bad sportsmanship in the game. Tea-bagging happens in the match, and I can answer that inside the match. I report hacks, using lag to cheat, ethnic/sexist/etc. slurs, threats, and the weird stuff like telling me that they hope I (or pets, friends, family, etc.) get cancer. I report the things clearly listed in the in game reporting system.
Camping (including face camping), tunneling, slugging, and the Mori are tactics and strategies. Why wouldn't I be "cool" with them. Sure it sucks to have it happen, but I get far more irritated by other Survivors who farm me, show up doing nothing while I'm buying them time on the hook, or those weirdos who actively work with the Killer. In short, the Killer is simply doing their job and playing the game. If I have a problem with that, it isn't the Killer I could be upset with but the game itself.
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@ALostPuppy said:
Still don't understand these posts. I can probably count on one hand the amount of these so-called "toxic" survivors i see every month (the ones that press a button in front of a killer more than once, and then the killer gets oversensitive and rushes to the forums to condemn all survivor players). The ones that are actually toxic I almost never come across. I've met very few people who were actually being toxic and sending racial, homophobic slurs, death threats etc. The whole meme of "you wouldn't last two seconds in a MW2 Xbox lobby 10 years ago" really isn't a meme anymore with this community is it?
I think you are very fortunate, and I hope more people have your experience. I started recording every game I play so I would have the required video evidence to report the inappropriate behavior. I'm working on a compilation video for Youtube which I expect to post in the near future. I have no lack of material, and none of it is mild. The video will show hackers, lag spikes, ethnic slurs, sexist comments, death threats, people wishing my friends, family, pets, or myself death or suffering, and enough Salt to makes a lifetime of beef jerky. The hard part of putting this compilation together is the sheer bulk of material I have (and get more all the time). What makes this particularly telling is I only started recording everything a month ago. So if your personal experience is different, consider yourself lucky, blessed. But I wouldn't suggest assuming people are being "oversensitive" when they don't like hearing things like, "I'm going to poison your cats."
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@goblinkiller50 said:
Survivors for some reason try to body me when I have NOED. It's even more hilarious when they can literally escape after they open the gates, but nope you just need to teabag me.
I'm not a fan of NOED because it is part of an end game build. In fact, I'm not a fan of any of the Perks that build for the strong end game. Other examples are some of Freddy's Perks like Blood Warden and Fired Up. Building for a strong end game always feels, to me at least, like playing from behind. I don't like putting that many eggs in one basket. I want to be down to two Survivors, at most, when we reach the last third of the game. NOED isn't a plan, it is what you do when your real plan has fallen apart.
That being said, there is NOTHING wrong with NOED or shameful about using it. Of all the high risk versus high reward Hex Perks, it is the most risky. I don't like to gamble that much. I like the Hex: Ruin because it paying me dividends from the very start of the game as long as I put pressure on Generators. I like the new Undying because it acts like an aura motion detector and extends things like Ruin and Haunted Ground. I like the Hex: Thrill of the Hunt because it is an audible cue, slows down the cleansing and lets me get to those Totems for a grab, or working with Undying makes sure I hear and turn the right direction to see those Auras. In short, I like the economy of Hexes that I'm 100% certain to get a return on, even if minimal, before they are destroyed.
NOED is all or nothing. When everything goes right, I prevent the gates from being powered and NOED never goes off. I played one Perk down for no benefit. If everything goes wrong and no dull Totems are left, NOED never goes off. Again, I played one Perk down for no benefit. Even when things go right for the Hex and it goes off, this means I've failed to prevent the powering of the gates, I now have to hope to find the Survivors before they get out, and even if I do find them I still have to chase and down them. None of those are sure things, and thus the gamble metaphor is further extended.
So, my view is take NOED If you have nothing better to take, but don't give it your love. It is a more expensive date than it appears.
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I actually started as a Killer almost exclusively. I am one of those people who like to focus on one thing until I get it right and then move on to the next. The problem is I couldn't earn enough points just playing a single Killer. I didn't want to do multiple different Killers to grind points, as that would defeat the purpose. To me it made good sense to grind extra points for my one main Killer (or other Killers whose Perks I wanted to unlock but not yet play) by playing Survivors. A Survivor is a totally different animal, and thus playing it would not break down my one Killer focus. This was my logic anyway, flimsy and poor.
So I started playing Survivor and grinding points. I found I really enjoy the Survivor side and I quickly became a split, doing both. The majority of my Survivor points go into my boy Myers, and into other Killers whom I do not play but need their Perks. My biggest recent grind was for the million BP needed to unlock Blight's Perks so I could get Undying over to Myers who needs it FAR MORE than the monstrous version of Sonic the Hedgehog. I'm still a better Killer than I am a Survivor, but I suspect that is because Survivors are only as good as their entire team. But I will get there. I think learning to play Survivors has made me a better Killer as I'm much better at the mind games now as well as locating the Survivors in the first minute of the match than I was before.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1639817#Comment_1639817
I'm a killer main and when I play survivor it's solo. DCs don't magically become more frequent when you switch roles. Seeing ragequit hook suicides is not hard. Seeing tbaggers at the exit gates or when they loop near you is not hard. Same for flashlight clickers. The list goes on for all kind of childish behavior. The point is that it just sounds contrived that you suddenly had this epiphany when you switched roles and then you jump in here singing the praises of a seemingly oppressed minority.
Also, try to see the whole disconnect in your story-telling and reasoning. You say you don't notice survivor toxicity when you play survivor. However, you promptly embrace and justify toxic behavior yourself by bleeding out survivors who in your eyes are 'guilty' of trying to rescue a tbagger, while they might've simply been oblivious, just like you, to the fact that that person tbagged.
Honestly, I gave you the benefit of the doubt the first time around. Now, I just think this thread is the typical bait of you-vs-us arguments that plague this forum. No offense.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1639845#Comment_1639845
I'm sorry, my dude, but your whole post is hard to follow because it just reads like a self-complacent rant. Your story lacks credibility the moment you said the following:
When I play Survivor nine out of ten Killers I play against (that can talk post game) will give me a GG, some nice feedback, and even the odd compliment.
I don't know in what kind of parallel universe your DbD exists, but kinda ask the Entity for me if I can join. You get a gg 9 out of 10 times by killers and survivors alike only if they won, with the odd stupid remarks the remainder of the time. When a side loses, however, you get silence, aggressiveness, or a gg, in this order.
I live in a universe where I say good game and treat the Killer (or Survivors) politely at the end. When you do that, they tend to respond. When I say GG Killler, GLHF in your next game, they tend to reply back. I get a response most of the time whether the Killer won or lost. Good sportsmanship, i.e. being humble in victory and gracious in defeat is a positive feedback loop. Most adults can' tolerate losing as long as they are given some dignity and respect. The trick is that YOU have to initiate it. YOU have to be the one to start the loop. People tend to rise to the occasion. Someone just has to take that first step, swallow that pride when they lost, and give credit and compliment to the person that beat them. That is all it takes and you can live in the same parallel universe I live in.
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My worst encounter with a Killer (and believe it or not MOST Killers are great, polite even post game) was a Ghostface who slugged me down. I was the last Survivor. All the others were dead or had left. There was a Hook right nearby, and I didn't have DS. The Ghostface proceeded to dance around me tea-bagging me for 3+ minutes until I bled out. There was no reason for it; if he was waiting on DS to go away (I didn't have it anyway) it doesn't take three minutes. Nope, this guy was just a mental defective. Mercifully these types are rare. Most Killers I talk to at the end of a game are polite, friendly and seem stunned when Survivors are polite and nice back to them. That is not their normal experience. I've not had a bad post-game experience with a Killer at all, only a few encounters in a match like the one listed above.
The worst Survivor experience? Well that is a horse of a different color. There are just SO MANY horrible encounters with entitled, racist, sexist, entitled Survivors that I don't know where to begin. I recorded a game the other day where Hackers were using something that let Bill get up as many times as he wanted and the Dwight was LITERALLY invisible. He went around doing Gens and I could watch and hear them powering up but not interact with him. Hackers are pretty bad, but as idiotic as that was.... some of the chatter I used to get. Other people have too, where they tell you they hope you get cancer and die, that your pets perish that your family die in car accidents. There are the ones that go into their rants to try and shame your behavior using ethnic or gender slurs. I mean, I'm sick to my stomach just thinking about how many HORRIBLE piles of human garbage I've run into among Survivors that I can't, for the life of me, pick you a single worst one.
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@Bwsted said:
Not saying I don't believe you. I'm just saying that if what you describe is so widespread and you usually play survivor, then you should have already noticed all those things coming from your fellow teammates. You really wouldn't need to play killer to see all of that.
It's not like people don't DC or teabag when you play survivor.
I believe him. I play both Killer and Survivor in equal measure, and I can assure you that his experiences are mild compared to the average Killer day. Most of us who play Killers have become jaded to the obnoxious behaviors. I barely notice Tea-Bagging anymore, or rather it doesn't raise my blood pressure. I just coldly note it and continue with my game. The word has kind of gotten around that I do record every game I play and I do report (with video evidence) every violation. The upside of the tedious process is I get less and less salt these days. The Salty simply say "nothing" at all... no GG... no whining or whinging... nothing. I am fine with that. I wouldn't go so far as to say 75% of the Survivors I run into are obnoxious. I put the numbers at 40-50%. I'm pleased to say about 10-20% are actually quite nice in the post game.
When I play Survivor nine out of ten Killers I play against (that can talk post game) will give me a GG, some nice feedback, and even the odd compliment. Only about one in ten does obnoxious stuff like slugging me down as the last Survivor and then tea-bags around (Ghostface) until I bleed out. This kind of person is defective, but mercifully rare. I don't get offended by being camped (not even face camped), tunneled, slugged, or being hit with a Mori. That is just the game. So as long as the Killer is polite afterwards, and isn't using hacks (oddly enough I don't think I've ever run into a Killer hack yet... they must exist but I've never seen one), we are good.
The problem is there is a disparity, and sadly the bulk of the awfulness is Survivor side. They provide more Salt, and (so far) all the Hacks and Lag cheating I've encountered. Like it or not, we have to police our fellow Survivor players and stand up to the garbage antics. The Killer should not be the only one reporting the foul language, abuse, and such at the end of the game. Survivors who don't engage in it, but are there, should be reporting it too. More to the point, I call that stuff out when other Survivors do it, and I will remove them from my friend list instantly. I'm not going to into battle with people who behave like that because their behavior DOES reflect on me.
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@Sluzzy said:
UNDYING, RUIN, TINKERER is about as busted as it gets on a fast killer. Can't believe such a thing exists. The only thing you can do is either fall asleep or farm some points and die. Killer has become the EZ mode.
Hardly. This is classic hyperbole.
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I have a funnier personal obsession, i.e. kill anyone dressed like an elf by any means possible as many times as possible. I call them Bo-Jangles and they all must die!
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@Quol said:
"We have noticed that 80% of red rank killers use Ruin+Undying and instead of investigating why this is happening we are going to rework these perks."
Calling it now.
<laughs> If 80% of Red Rank Killers are STILL using that combination in a couple of months they might worry. But right now Undying is the flavor of the month and they EXPECT everyone to use it to death.
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@stvnhthr said:
If you are the final survivor I think Deliverance should still work. You should not be penalized and lose one of your perks for being the last one alive.
Well.... let me put it THIS way... why bother? If you are the last Survivor and just got hooked, the Killer is going to watch you sac out. The ones that run off now only do it because they know you can't get off the hook. If that change were made, every Killer would simply stare at the last Survivor until they die or jump off to get instantly downed. Do you see my point? Making the change in Deliverance would be a pointless exercise involving lots of coding with no net result.
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@Frettycam said:
I played Oni when he first came out and he felt pretty solid around A-S tier but now he feels worse but idk what it is or is it just me?
The previous poster already touched on this, but I'll reiterate. Whenever a new Killer comes out, there is a temporary shift in the META because whatever new trick or design throws people for a loop. However, since a new Killer is always the flavor of the week, he/she gets a LOT of play. In a very short time, people get very good against said Killer based on the excessive amount of practice.
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@KingFrost said:
Ran into a plague last night that ran this.
Undying went within a minute into the match.
10 seconds later, Ruin went.
20 seconds later, Plague DC'd.
Yep. That happens sometimes. Depending on who I am running I sometimes combo Ruin+Undying+Thrill of the Hunt to slow down the Totem cleansing and to give me the audible notification so I swing around, see the aura due to Undying, and make a beeline there for a grab or drive them off. It works pretty well with the Stealth Killers since they can move up without giving it away, and use the aura to angle the incoming to have a better shot at the grab.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
Ruin + Undying + Tinkerer
Slap this on a killer, particularly a high mobility one, and you got yourself the most boosted player you will ever see.
These players do not know what pressure is to save their life. You can feed their build and try to cleanse totems to get rid of their perks, or you can just get a gen high progressed and lead them away, go back to it when they leave you (because they will) and bam, the player is exposed as the bot they are. The fact this is a build to vs almost every game is ridiculous. The calibre of player skill level in dbd is utter garbage XD this builds proves it to be that way.
This is kind of nonsensical since Ruin doesn't work without regular Gen-Pressure. If the Killer isn't pushing Survivors off the Generators, they don't start to regress. Tinkerer is nice and all, but it only kicks in when the Generator is at 70% complete. Again, for this to happen the Killer would have to NOT be applying pressure. That is two strikes so far. Undying simply protects Hexes, whatever Hex it might be and extends it potential life. In this build, what would be the point? According to your logic they aren't pressuring the generators anyway.
A better, in my experience so far, combination is:
Hex: Ruin
Hex: Undying
Surveillance
*This has massive synergy in that the moment you pressure them off a Generator it marks itself in a color, and the second someone starts repairing it you get a big colorful flag saying "SURVIVORS HERE!" It is much faster than Tinkerer as you don't have to wait until they are 70% done. All this being said, you are just wrong on every level. You are clearly unhappy that the broken Gen-Rush is being reigned back a bit. Get used to it. The META is always changing with this game, and that is part of what keeps it vital.
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I've beaten it with Myers (Spooky Myers) a number of times. Hard yes, but I don't bother chasing and just go for ambush. Basement is great there... if you can get them in.