MoNosEmpire
MoNosEmpire
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444025#Comment_3444025
Unfortunately this would get down voted fast by survivor horde as by their logic killers should win only by their own pure skill and are not allowed to have any form of help if they struggle. However, should survivors be forced to do some extra actions by any means because of killer perks, be sure those perks get massively toned down to the point of being either useless or 1 out of 10 case useful.
Not true, perks only get toned down when they are heavily oppressive to both sides. I've agreed with all past changes except nerfs to anti-tunnelling.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444061#Comment_3444061
The only way a killer tunnels at 5 gens is if the survivors aren't doing gens. There's little reason why survivors can't get a gen done while the killer is chasing the first survivor.
You'd be surprised by the randoms in this game >_>
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444010#Comment_3444010
You yourself said that tunneling is bad. There is no difference between being tunneled at 5 gens or during exit gate powerup phase. If killer resorts to this tactic it's their choice. Just because you don't like being tunneled doesn't mean killers should be unable to tunnel at all. There are plenty of things killers don't like survivors do but guess what, they are told to deal with it. Same should be said about survivor players - got tunneled at 5 gens? Deal with it or just move to the next game.
You are clearly not understanding. There is a big difference between being tunnelled at 5 gens or at exit gate. At 5 gens there is NO REASON to tunnel but killers do it regardless, so it's not a tactic at all at that point it's more like easy kills.
If tunnelling was only allowed when there are 2-3 gens left then it would make it more fair for survivors (and still help killers keep the pressure on them) and keep it as a tactic rather than what it is now, an easy cheese for killers.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444024#Comment_3444024
The killer has 4 ways of trying to win the game:
1) Going for 12 hooks. This is where a lot of people would like to go (myself included). But for that to be desirable for the killer there needs to be an incentive to play like this instead of utilizing one or all of the other strategies.
2) Tunneling. I already covered that this is a way to build more pressure and achieve better results.
3) Camping. This is another strategy we do not want killers to use and we'll get an update to help with that but it should be listed anyway.
4) Slugging for a comeback. Often times a killer will find themself in a position where they will not be able to win by hooks, they need to take survivors out of the match another way.
Looking at this, you'll find that 2), 3) and 4) are often complained about (understandably) but they all come in clutch where option 1) fails. My point is that punishing killers for tunneling and camping will lead to an uproar in slugging and when that doesn't work, they'll brute force through all safety walls BHVR put in place and still tunnel and camp. Mainly because 1) has no advantages over 2), 3) and 4) combined. This is why I want to see incentives to go for more hooks.
I feel as though 12 hooks is too much for a killer if the survivor team they're up against are all very experienced and the killer is a lot lower in MMR. Killers need new ways to kill survivors in general. From my experience killers just go straight to #2 from the start of the game and ignore the others though so thats an issue.. And honestly if a killer can slug all 4 survivors then props to him.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444016#Comment_3444016
You couldn't waste the tickets in 2 minutes
So how would this idea work? Survivors have X amount of lives and once they're all dead they're gone for good? or?
And now that you mention it.. maybe allowing teammates to give you 1 extra life if they wanted to as well? (that 1 life would be permanent and you wont be able to transfer it back) That could maybe stop killers from tunnelling as aggressively.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443677#Comment_3443677
Do killers complain that survivors are doing their objectives in general? No. Killers complain that they keep getting their tools taken away from them so it becomes more difficult to compete against survivors.
Nobody wants easy game. People want a fair game where mistakes aren't that punishing and there's always comeback potential for both sides. The problem here is killer is alone and needs to use all options available where survivors are 4 and they all share the same objective and can play lax at times. If one survivor does mess up somewhere, 3 others can carry the game but if killer does mess up, no help is coming. Killers do tunnel because it's a form of pressure that often works and time-wise is the most effective way to keep up with gen progression rate that currently exists ( 1 or 2 gens per 1 hook ).
I suggested in a suggestion post on here that Hex: Ruin should be basekit for killers to help slowdown the game slightly and also make it a different colour to other totems. It would be easier to find and the game would become more interesting in general.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443923#Comment_3443923
Read again, play a game of killer and maybe try to understand what I actually said. There is not other incentive not to tunnel other than to actively play inefficient, which handicaps you and makes you lose matches you would otherwise win.
Of course you punish people by tunneling. You punish them for being an easy target. Would you stop doing gens and run towards the killer to get hooked when their match doesn't go well? No, you'd use their lack of pressure against them by sticking to gens and finish the game before they can make a comeback. There is nothing wrong with that. That is simply your best play.
There is absolutely 0 reason why a killer shouldn't tunnel other than "It might make the survivors unhappy." Do you honestly expect killer players to place that as their top priority? When survivors wouldn't do the same thing? I don't blame either side for playing how they want to play as long as they don't break any of the game's rules. I'm just saying there is no reason to play nice.
The problem is the only thing survivors can do is gens, killers on the other hand have multiple ways to kill someone. I do agree other ways to win do need a buff, or some new ways added at the very least to help mix up the gameplay and keep it feeling fresh for both sides.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423221#Comment_3423221
It actually works the other way around. Pain Res does not regress completed gens but it does regress gens that have 50% progress.
How exactly would you punish the killer for tunneling and how would you compensate them? Because the most common suggestions turn out to be flat out nerfs to killers and not really solutions to the issue at hand. If it was worth it going for 12 hooks, more killers would do it. But as long as the only incentive to not tunnel is to basically throw the game, get teabagged at the exit gate and harassed in end game chase I can't blame anyone for tunneling the hell out of the first survivor they find.
I think the compensation for killers has already been added with all the anti-tunnelling nerfs to survivors already and that's why DBD is in this state atm.
I know no one would like this suggestion but it is the most effective one I can think about which will make the game feel more balanced. The killer should only be able to tunnel when there are either 2-3 gens left (some extra exceptions will have to be made to stop survivors exploiting this, maybe after a certain % has been reached) OR all 5 gens are above 50% progress (again, exceptions must be made for this to be effective).
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443101#Comment_3443101
Exactly, lore wise, killing fast is not what the entity wants
But it's also kind of contradictory since bleeding out is a much slower death than simply being sacrificed, yet when you bleed them out then it says "the entity hungers" like the devs are going against their own lore?
I didn't know that, that's actually quite interesting.
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@Anti051 said:
The only way to completely fix tunneling is to get rid of the three strikes system and introduce a ticket based system similar to the game 'Depth.'
Then it wouldn't matter if you get "tunneled" over and over again, because nobody would actually start dying until all the "respawn tickets" are used up.
I suggest this since nobody wants to drop all the made up terminology and accept the game's current iteration.
I'm not sure if a ticket system would be effective enough.. Imagine someone being new to the game and wasting all of the lives within the first 2 minutes, t hen everyone else is insta-dead on the hook and I'm sure people would be more toxic via chat and messages. Personally I think it is not the way to go.
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@fulltonon said:
I mean ultimately BHVR should just do hard counter to it, from fundamental game design.
not just "basekit endurance" but literal invincibility or random respawn or something like that.
I think the killer should get the blind effect towards that survivor and should still be able to have collisions with them to keep it somewhat fair still, turning off completely when 2 gens are left. This would still allow a killer to camp and tunnel towards the end of the game but not the start.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443627#Comment_3443627
I have in fact faced it. When I play fairly and camp during endgame to secure at least one kill after getting genrushed I just get bodyblocked by survivors and get forced to enjoy a lightshow and dance battle about who can teabag the fastest at gate. The endgame chat is another story. It's miserable. There has been no mention about toolbox nerfs let alone a BNP nerf so you can't just ask for anti-tunneling perks without compensating for it.
I have seen the news about some items already getting nerfed so as the other person said it's inevitable that toolboxes will be nerfed too. BHVR like to take their time with updates so you probably wont see it for at least 3+ months minimum. Endgame at the gates is a problem yes, a lot of people like to flex their ego and the endgame chat.. no idea about that personally since I'm on console.
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@Emeal said:
OKOKOKOK I got one. I always wanted this one, its called Magic Trick.
Unhook another Survivor to activate
If you are unhooked and the killer is near, Jump into a Locker within 30 seconds and become teleported the the locker furthest away from your location. The perk then deactivates.
Flavor text: "Taadaaah!"
That does sound cool!
@Green_Sliche said:
Why not just write entire rule set for killers as to how they should play?
Tunneling exists because of survivor meta perks that make every chase so long and every failed down cost a gen or two. Instead of addressing the real problem you want to make things even worse.
How many basekits do survivors need to have until enough is enough?
Stop overreacting. No one said tunnelling is a bad thing, but when it's all you see and the game still has 5 gens and a killer is tunnelling, yes it is a BIG problem.
Survivors have 2 anti-tunnelling perks (OTR + FTP) and they're getting slaughtered. This is easily proven by everyone being tunnelled and the complaints about it on the forum, before some perks were nerfed it was never this big of an issue because survivors had protection against it.
You're complaining about killers saying enough is enough about a perk which makes 0 difference to tunnelling but survivors have had ENOUGH of tunnelling ALREADY.
It's time for a change!
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@Spectralfx said:
Killers should be rewarded for killing period.
Right now it's ridiculous, you can get a very strong game with a 4k and get no pip/score... because survivors played bad of all things!
Tunneling is NOT an issue, it's a legitimate strategy on killer's side and survivor should just learn to COUNTER PLAY it.
A 1k is still a win for survivors the same way a 3k is still a win for killer.
If one must take one for the team, they should do so gracefully and get BPs for sticking around.
Don't try to punish bad behaviors, that DON'T WORK with trolls. They will keep doing it just to irritate others no matter what.
Instead, reward players for playing for their team... even if it means them doing skillchecks on the hook... just reward that.
Explain how it is hard to pip as a killer? I can load into a game right now and kill 2 survivors from tunnelling and I would still get 2 pips with 0 effort.
"Tunneling is NOT an issue, it's a legitimate strategy on killer's side and survivor should just learn to COUNTER PLAY it."
And what counterplay do you have in mind? EVERY Anti-tunnelling perk has been nerfed except one, and that's OTR.
DS - Nerfed and makes 0 difference, the killer will still continue to tunnel within 3 seconds
DH - Nerfed, I've seen it in two games since it's nerf so that should just go to show how bad it is now.
OTR - Still strong but useless when you are hit while being unhooked
FTP - You have to be extremely lucky for a teammate to be running this (1% equip chance)
BO - Nerfed, if I had to give it a statistic for actually working i'd say 5% out of 100%
BT - Base kit, no one really uses it anymore and you're almost always hit while being unhooked, makes 0 diff to being tunnelled
IW - NERFED, people who use a headset and soundw, it makes 0 diff to them and they can still hear you
Even with ALL of these changes it is obvious survivors can do nothing against being tunnelled because tunnelling rose to prominence so quickly after they were all nerfed, DH was the last straw before hunting season and now it really is open season for killers. If a killer is dead-set on tunnelling you there is NOTHING you can do. I see it time and time again and every single match where someone DC's it's usually because they're being tunnelled.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442409#Comment_3442409
Too easy to tunnel "right now"? How is it different right now than at any other point? Basekit BT has really spoiled folks.
Waiting for someone to be unhooked and then swinging at them right away to cancel the BT protection or counting to 15 seconds before continuing to tunnel and then instadown. Please don't bring base BT into tunnelling when it makes no difference whatsoever.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442787#Comment_3442787
Did you not read the part where I said
"When did tunneling, slugging and camping become a problem?" Those are strategies!
The real issue is that killers are abusing those strategies, going against those strategies every single game is boring, not fun and not encouraging to play dead by daylight anymore unless I play as killer.
Which is all well and dandy until everybody switches to killer and there are no survivors to go against.
I do not care about the part where you mentioned the other 2 because this post is only about tunnelling, it happens too often for it to be classed as a strategy, it is killer easy mode. Needs a nerf.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442412#Comment_3442412
I just don’t see how you can stop killers from chasing someone
There are many other ways to deter this from happening. Buffing survivor protection who are being tunnelled would be one prime example.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442784#Comment_3442784
you should expect that this post was a joke lmfao, literally who would want something nerfed because of a jumpscare in a horror game
Ah yes, a forum section dedicated to feedback and suggestions but bro decides to post a joke. Yep totally supposed to be obvious.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442629#Comment_3442629
again, taking this too literal
Thats what text is for buddy, its hard to show emotion via text so...
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@oreoslurpee said:
for the love of god, what the title says, JUST STOP
i dont want to see him in any of my matches i get jumpscared by him way too much in 1 match its horrifying
I mean.. you are playing a horror game LOL
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Camping is an important strategy for killers to secure kills and commonly used on some killers such as Bubba. I suspect almost no one will play Bubba after the camping nerf. Camping is effectively dead with the nerf and killers need to be compensated for this as it's a large nerf.
"Camping is an important strategy for killers to secure kills"
Nothing should be guaranteed in DBD.
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@inkblot said:
We need a fix for this asap, you can be starting right at him and it won't reveal him. Meanwhile he can stalk you across the map. Obviously making it so that if you see him it reveals him doesn't make sense and would actually be broken, like you could see him across the map and he would be revealed and he would be like "what where?" But this seriously needs a fix either making it so that he can't stalk you from so far away or making the reveal area for survivors bigger.
you should add this in bug reports, it'll get better exposure I believe.
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@CompleatBeet said:
It's really hard to play with friends cross platform because there is no built in voice chat unlike most other cross platform multiplayer games. I'm on PS4 and if I wanna play with a friend on PC I have to use Discord on my phone which is incredibly inconvenient and takes away from the actual game.
I understand why voice chat with random teammates is not an option, but pleade do consider it for SWFs. Thanks :)
You do realise that you can talk through your headset on PS4 via discord call now right?
Step 1: Link discord and PS4 to each other
Step 2: Join a call on your phone
Step 3: click "connect to PS4" in the call screen on your phone (If you don't see this setting you most likely need to update discord on your phone
If everything is done correctly your PS4 will be added to the discord call.
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441256#Comment_3441256
That's an odd thing to say. You can definitely troll a Killer. Head On combo? Flashlights and sabos? T-bagging? Body-blocking doors with OTR? I think I'm missing a few more methods.
I wouldn't count any of them as "trolling" just wasting time for the killer by making chases last longer.
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@Luckyfer said:
Yea,tunneling has gotten out of control.
I believe these things could alleviate some of the pain endured.
- Unhooking doesnt trigger a loud notification,nor does the UI change until and after like 10-15 seconds.
- The unhooked shouldn't leave pools of blood or scratch marks,there are a few perks but you need like a full build to get all of these.
- DS reverted to 5 seconds,not 1 time use anymore,multiple DS results in increased stun time.
At this point the only thing that would effectively stop tunnelling (and I'm actually annoyed I have to say this), is to buff dead hard by allowing you to take 2 protection hits max per game, keep the exhaustion effect and removing the unhook activation nerf that was added.
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@Nathan13 said:
I mean what would you propose to “punish” killers for tunneling???
I have a few ideas, not sure if I mentioned them in here or not but I'd prefer the devs to figure a solution out that works for both sides.
At this point though, ANYTHING would be better than allowing a killer to tunnel someone because they're so bad at chases they have to camp a hook and tunnel someone.
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@Dark_Alex said:
Killers should be punished for doing their job. Noted.
It's not that the killer is doing their job, it's the fact that it is too easy to tunnel right now. The same way dead hard was too easy to use. But now it makes sense why everyone hated dead hard because they wanted to tunnel back then too but that perk stopped them dead in their tracks.
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@Pink_Ronin said:
Changing one of these 4 things would make it more worth using and provide more consistent value.
1) The exhaustion cooldown should be 10 seconds
2) Endurance window should last for at least 3 seconds (The 0.5 second window was acceptable before the nerf but now it doesn't even make sense)
3) Allowing use before being unhooked for a maximum of 3 potential DH activations in a match.
4) Bring back original DH dash (my pick)
Since it has been nerfed, I would support the idea of giving the perk 2-3 seconds of activation back. It won't be as oppressive as it was before but it would give it value back in it's use. It would also make this perk apart of high pick rate again too, so there's that..
An alternate option would be to depreciate dead-hard and turn it into base kit where it only activates against killers who like to tunnel, with a 5 second activation time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I never use steamers at all, all my survivors have loads of them.
Too many games I brought them just for the killer to either tunnel me or a teammate at 5 gens, so they just collect dust in my survivor inventories now.
I’m hoping that one day they make a Bloodweb shop so that you can trade in stuff you don’t want for BP.
"I’m hoping that one day they make a Bloodweb shop so that you can trade in stuff you don’t want for BP."
That's actually a really cool idea!
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@Ithiria said:
I get why people do it, but can we get some sort of countermeasure for it?
Perhaps if you've been on the floor for 1 minute, an extra action is enabled that causes you to bleed out much more quickly?
Or perhaps the option only becomes available when all but one survivor is slugged instead.
As a survivor main I really don't think anything extra is needed for killers preferring to slug, yes it can be annoying but you hardly see it and there are things that can change the game completely in your favour, like BOON: Exponential. These type of games tend to be fun for me from my personal experience because it feels 50/50 and anything can honestly happen.
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@RubberBrain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/377280/decisive-strike-buff
It should go back to 5 seconds but I also think it should give exhaustion
Yes to 5 seconds no to exhaustion, it is a 1 time use perk not multiple.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440670#Comment_3440670
Well here’s how you reduce tunneling and camping
1.learn to loop
2.preserve pallets
3.don’t use BT/end status to body block
Mate I have clips where I have looped for 15 minutes straight and STILL survivors refuse to do gens. Please stop assuming it is a skill issue because it clearly is not.
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@Mane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431348#Comment_3431348
The same can be true for both sides "me losing isn't fun for me"
Yes but there is definitely a clear difference between tunnelling and just losing outright everygame.
For example, you get tunnelled as a killer what do you do? put on antitunnelling perks, they help somewhat but if teammates don't do gens then it makes no difference.
As a killer all you need to do is use bubba, then you've got camping and tunnelling made even easier. Now I'm not saying bubba is too easy to use but I am saying that the effect, which is tunnelling, is too easy to implement with no repercussions.
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@TonyXSplash said:
There are people that do nothing all game and wait until their teammates die so they can get hatch or when the killer kills 2 survivors and there are 5 gems left and the other two hide for the longest so one of them can get hatch. This, in my opinion is not good for the game and is boring.
Make it so when 3 survivors sacrificed the last survivor is immediately consumed by the entity making escaping only for survivors that actually deserve it and reward survivors for working together and escaping together,
How about a little plot twist.
If 2 survivors are dead, the third is on stage 2 of the hook and one is running around; the person on the hook gets asked a question. The question is "Would you like to allow the hatch to spawn for your teammate" and below the question they will see their participation stats within the game too.
It would be a button you would hold for 1.5 seconds to say yes to or to deny, Yes would sacrifice you on the hook too.
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As I wrote this post originally, I still stand by my main point. I understand "Meta" but I do not understand "meta" when 90% of the time a killer ignores all other routes to win and purposely decides on 1 tactic. I would understand if it was the same killer, but it's not. It's almost every killer I come against. This is not a survivor flaw, it is a flaw due to mechanical design. It feels like a frustrating punch in the stomach every time I try to get back into this game which used to be fun, now it's the same old "oh he found you first? Guess what your reward is being TUNNELLED!"
Last year I could happily play solo 95% of the time and LFG for the other 5% and I would be fine; but now it's only fun for the killer because there really is nothing you can do against one who targets and tunnels; you don't feel as though you're rewarded enough for your time as a survivor anymore, nowadays you take a massive XP hit every game due to it, constantly going against a tunnelling killer forces you to start being toxic when it comes to the perks you use which in turn fuels the hatred for toxicity within the game as a whole. Unless the survivor really is better than the killer (with SBMM nowadays that's almost never) because most survivors just run around or hide while you're being chased, it really feels like the fun is gone in this game and I really hate that I said that but it's true.
I do hope the community mods read this post and understand the frustration survivors are actually facing due to the constant tunnelling and I really hope big changes are coming.
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@appleas said:
The only playstyle that is “fun” to Survivors is 12 hooking everyone. Any other playstyle gets complained about. Gen Defense, Totems, Tunneling, Camping and Slugging. Even some people are complaining about Hit and Run recently.
What are you talking about?
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
Lmao as a killer and survivor main it’s quite annoying seeing survivors using BT and such as a shield then complain about tunneling
Your post states you're a main for both but the point you're making is heavily biased as a killer. Might want to rethink that post.
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@Pennywise said:
Is this a solvable problem without changing the gameplay design significantly?
BHVR has introduced anti-tunneling perks but unless you take one of these perks all the time you will eventually have this experience of being tunneled and feel like there isn't much you can do, and taking the perks may make you more of a target and get you tunneled anyway. If a survivor is being tunneled every game I would argue that is down to something the survivor is doing for every single killer to tunnel them.
Sometimes tunneling is a legit strat if as the killer you can eliminate the strongest player early, you can pretty much guarantee the win, but at the same time not tunneling the strongest player out of some sense of fair play for the survivors can cost you the game, like it or not the game isn't designed around each survivor taking turns on the hook and I would expect any decent survivor team to exploit the killer's weakness when the killer has this "fair play" mentality.
Killers shouldn't be there as referees to make sure all survivor players feel it has been a fair game by the survivor's definition, to ensure everyone has fun, they are there to win the game.
Interesting concept, blaming the survivor because the killer refuses to use another playstyle. First time playing just now since I created this post and guess what? Instantly tunnelled, it's not the survivor mate it's the game. It needs changing because I'm honestly sick of it. This is why I quit playing in the first place.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
Kinda of a hard to do, considering it is the killer objective to do. To kill as fast and efficiently as possible. Survivors are similar yet more different then killer, as it is all about Escapes, which involves fixing 5 generator, open the exit gates, and get out. It called Gen Rushing. But of course, it is easy to do then killer's as you have 3 extra players beside you then can do the gens.
Let's me tell you why it not so easy to punish Tunneling, just like it's not so easy to punished gen rushing. It's like telling the players to literally not play the game at all. The more you play, more fun and "friendly" you are not playing as a cold hearted killer trying to kill no mercy or as a Survivor trying to endure and survive. There perks that not only encourage you to tunnel and camp more (gen regression perks) but also perks that encourage to do Gen faster and survive better, even on hooks. (Prove Thyself, Reassurance, etc.) The point is no matter what you do to perks or even complete remove every single perk from the game; it always the same game and most efficient way to win. The killer is encourage to tunnel because going for different Survivors, and many hooks is completely pointless, when the Survivors are all still alive and the killer is "losing". Survivors on the other hand, is conditionally by the game to save their team, because it will increase their chances of survival and Success for their objective to escape, to win. They also act entitled and cry, whenever they down on their luck or skill in getting caught and sorted forced to lose by the killer whom Been forced to win by any means necessary. Do you all see the problem, it is a endless cycle of back n forth, over the win conditions set forth by the devs; that are not truly fun or fair for both parties.
If you want tunnel to be gone for good, I think setting the goals for more hooks win conditions is favorable; with a kill being a bonus. For Survivors, they need more objectives, since there are 4 of them; and gens shouldn't be the only main objective to do, in order to escape. It can be looking for switch not next to the exits or looking for parts; it can be bringing fuel to a generator once it I'd fixed; it can even be going to this location like the basement to go find a key to open the exit gates once powered. Or even gives Survivors the ability to build their own defenses and make their own versions of Breakable Walls called Buildsble walls, pallets, and windows. The possibilities are endless, anything to make speed run the gens is not easy thing to do by experience Survivors, especially in swf.
Nothing will changes, until the base game mechanics are changes, along with the win conditions for both sides. The kill/escape conditions encourage both sides to play "toxic" in order to win effectively, and we shouldn't blame every player for playing the game the way the devs have made it out to be. They even tell players that Tunneling isn't a bannable rule, yet Don't necessarily found many good solutions to remedy or completely remove it from typical gameplay.
I think the biggest part of your point is the following; "The killer is encourage to tunnel because going for different Survivors, and many hooks is completely pointless, when the Survivors are all still alive and the killer is "losing"." THIS NEEDS changing by devs 100% and i'm sure it will impact gameplay heavily in the higher rank lobbies, they were also the most fun for me personally, playing for 15-30 minutes straight back and forth with the killer with both sides being heavily aggressive in their objectives and trying to waste as much time on both sides while also trying to win. Instead of the rush 5 gens for 5-10 minutes then leave strat.
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@sanees said:
there is 1 good tactic how to completely destroy tunneling
just be good at the game
Seriously, each pallet gives you at least 15 seconds, so if you can loop, your team will win faster than the pallets run out
ok let's say you're really bad and you down after 40 seconds , if your teammates have hyperfocus it means so they have already repaired 3 gen, this way your tm can skip 1 of your stage, fix the generators open the gate and the bb killer save you
tunneling is not effective if the survivors do not allow it to be effective
if the killer hangs you and just camps, then it means you won (+ you can increase the time on the hook by +120 seconds thanks to the perks)
camp killer allows you to repair 3 generators for free, + taking into account the fact that 2 generators are repaired in the first 40-50 seconds camp killer = ez win
so i see absolutely no reason to complain about camping/tunneling
what is really the problem is the toolboxes and perks on the genrush that allow you to repair the generator in solo in 40 seconds
Your scenario is very situational and only describes a perfect scenario. What it doesn't explain is that each player must be good at the game, each player must have hyperfocus, each player must be able to loop effectively, each player must also have to hold out long enough to finish gens and finally the downtime distance from gen to gen/knowing the map.
FYI the last time I was able to finish a gen in 40 seconds solo was months ago.
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@SuperMunchkin95 said:
Well if you had a reason, I was willing to hear you out, but clearly you came here to start something. -_-
Regardless of my reasons people would still objectively try to argue why it shouldn't be nerfed, the post was merely in regards to more awareness for the devs.
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@unclefood87 said:
TBH after reading a lot of comments in this thread people don't understand there's different variations of tunneling.
There's the tunneling when an unhooked survivor attempts to bodyblock with BT/OTR when the killer is clearly switching targets and trying not to tunnel. There's the tunneling when unhooked survivor immediately jumps on a generator in front of the killers face. Like of course tunneling is the right option there, you're asking for it.
But then there's the tunneling that has no place in the game, where it's just the player basically admits they're not skilled enough in the game to win 4v1, so they ruthlessly tunnel out the 1st survivor to make it a 3v1 so that they can get their 'win' without having to try.
Correct, my post was in regards to only your third variation.
I have seen killers target just two survivors (the one he hooks first and the second one unhooking only) until both are out of the game, but even then that's a LOT better than just targeting 1 person only.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Tunneling can happen without perks... so changing perks is a bad move
And if BHVR actually had something to combat Tunneling it would've been released long ago
But then again if Tunneling was solved then Survivors would just have all the time in the world to get the Gens done
Try to not Tunnel in a match and see what happens
I understand that tunnelling is needed because gens are done too quickly, that's why if tunnelling is nerfed, then they need to implement more gens or more tasks to do or just something else for survivors to do to waste a little more time.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424203#Comment_3424203
And how would you 'ban tunneling' in a way that Survivors could not abuse like they do basekit BT?
Seriously. Survivors whined about tunneling, got a free perk out of it, and weaponized that free perk to force the Killer to tunnel via bodyblocking instead of running away. And when they get downed, they continue to whine that they were tunneled. It's like they expect the Killer to let them bodyblock & then run away unharmed.
So tell me; What could be done that Survivors would not maliciously abuse, exactly like they do basekit BT?
The other reason I know Survivors are just angry they lost? Because they scream onto the forum with insults: 'Braindead play', 'Lazy Killers', 'Toxic tryhards'. Etc.
Survivors have been abusing base BT for you? What region are you in if I may ask?? Because in every single one of my EU lobbies the survivor doesn't even get a chance to do this so called "abuse the free BT perk" since the change because the killer has ALWAYS been straight back to the hook before they've even had a chance to finish the unhook animation and tunnel them out the game. One of the main reasons why I've stopped playing as much because it's not as fun as it once was.
From your description it seems more like you don't tunnel but even before the change survivors would take the free BT hit if they were in an SWF, that sounds like more of what you experienced. The BT change was a good change and did help drag out the game a little longer, however for survivors who don't know how to loop it made no difference.
It doesn't matter what change is implemented, at the end of the day it's a game after all and people in general will always use the easiest cheese available, regardless of it's impact. Hence why certain perks become popular so fast. My main post here wasn't to provide any suggests as of yet, it was merely to raise awareness to what has been plaguing the game lately and severely reduced my game time due to it.
As for your insults, I don't condone any of them but it is a very lazy playstyle for a killer, that I would agree is one of the reasons it needs a change.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423803#Comment_3423803
That argument is disingenuous.
If the Killer could end the entire match in 2 minutes; there would be a problem.
Whining about being removed in a game where one side's goal is to, gasp and surprise, REMOVE YOU! Is entitled.
well erm.. that is kinda what is happening with tunnelling when killers abuse it too easily. That one tunnel at the start of the game can throw many games into shambles, one tunnelled within the first 10 seconds, the next slugged, theres 2 down and not even 1 gen complete because of how low the skill gap is for a vast majority of survivors. The only potential fixes I can see right now would be to ban tunnelling until at least 2 survivors have been killed and add another playstyle which isn't oppressive so the killer feels pressured to protect gens rather than ignore stopping us doing the objective but rather kill us outright within seconds. I've noticed more as a whole that killers ignore gens completely now unless they have a gen perk and their main priority is tunnelling, which is quite sad if you think about it really.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3423352#Comment_3423352
Nobody would have a problem w that if the meta tactic was actually fun or interesting.
A lie. Survivors would whine regardless.
It's not about the killers that try to win it's about the devs not nerfing tunneling
Meaning it's about Killers winning in ways Survivors hate, and Survivors being entitled enough to think they can dictate what their opponent does.
Actually, 1ettuce is spot on with his answer, I honestly wouldn't care if tunnelling wasn't all I saw. It's really not a tactic anymore it's just how 90% of killers play, if killers complained about seeing boil over and deard hard so much and both got nerfed into the ground because of how oppressive they were, then now it is time to nerf tunnelling because of how oppressing it is. DBD is not fun to play atm, I have a FREE pass paid by Amazon for DBD and I still refuse to play the game because of the endless tunnelling for months. If I'm being completely honest this game is a complete joke in it's current state.
I also believe your last statement here is heavily egotistical. I don't care how a killer wins, it's about how it's so oppressive and not fun to play against anymore. I want the joy of actually being able to play DBD like I used to, there were multiple tactics, there were multiple perks people actually used, I tried a lot of perks but in the end when tunnelling was acted upon by killers because it's too easy to do, I was forced to use a specific set of perks. This game should not be like that, it is heavily unhealthy.
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@NoHookDC said:
No.
Accept that the Killer gets to try winning as hard as Survivors, or stop playing.
Tired of Survivors pitching temper tantrums and demanding Killers get punished for winning.
and i'm tired of killers thinking it's okay to ruin the game for one person by prematurely picking them out and bullying them to the point where they don't make any PIPs, the only way to make survivors stop caring about tunnelling is to remove depipping as a whole. The issue isn't about winning, it's about HOW you're winning, it's too easy, just like dead hard was an issue for so long.
Now that dead hard has been completely murdered, it's now time for devs to set their sights on tunnelling to make it more fair for survivors as a whole. Welcome to the wonderful world of balancing.
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@jamally093 said:
When facing skull merchant all that I see is her placing drones at three gens and that's it. It's not to fun for killer since you basically can only do three gens and for survivor it just becomes annoying since well once that three gen happens the match goes on for to long.
I feel like there is some way to make skull merchant fun or at least make her not to boring.
For example when Knight first came out most people didn't like him but he still had a way of applying pressure his gaurds would chase someone which wasted time for them but he was useful at getting survivors away from loops. Facing him was fun because it made you think your being hunted by a guard you need to get some good timing to get the banner or figure out how to out last the hunt.
For has much has I hate Wraith I still find it somewhat fun since he makes me more aware of my surroundings I have to pay close attention.
But skull merchant she's just well not fun it's like facing a face camping Bubba you know what's going to happen.
Some ideas for skull merchant could be have it where she can control her drones having them move a certain distance so they can cover some ground or maybe she has two types of surveillance?
They can start by changing the chase/radius music for her hopefully lol
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417170#Comment_3417170
With my suggestion you would quite literally need to spread hooks on survivors to get scourge hooks up...and the current is what spawns them without needing to be activated first
I can definitely get behind that idea but the hook spawns should still stay random and they do indeed need to be spread out better around the map as the 100% uptime issue would still persist without having to travel far.
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If you are able to 100% get an uptime on a perk every single time without the need to go out of your way to activate it, it makes it too strong. That's why you have to go to the preplaced X hook first.