Miles
Miles
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- Miles
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@DeliciousFood said:
He's like Freddy before his addon pass. Horribly dull gameplay, accessible to every bad killer player since he doesn't need to loop or has addons that make pallets meaningless, free mega speed with a crazy lunge, no chase most of the time and less chase points due to cutting chase when cloaked, addons overall are just kind of silly and could use some tweaking with all-seeing being the worst. He's a dreadful public game stomper that is falling out of fashion now that MMR is making games less 'potato' fests.
For a bit he was the free win killer since his playstyle was 0 risk for massive reward vs. solo queue or casual friend groups. Not so much now. Even with the sweatiest builds, they falter. So I think Wraith only needs an addon pass now. Maybe focus more on the stealth rather than free zooming that makes distance meaningless vs him.
I seriously disagree about the add on pass, because firstly i fear he might get the billy treatment, and second of all none of his add ons are half as opressive as Freddy's were.
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@apathyinc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507940#Comment_2507940
It's not just gen progress, it's narrowing down where the survivors are, then pinpointing it with the purple all seeing. Believe it or not, there are players that do this and just slug and let people bleed out at 5 gens. It's a crappy way to play and something needs to be done about it.
Thats more of an ######### thing than a wraith thing yknow? And nerfing wraith's add ons will not solve massive slugs.
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@KingFrost said:
Silent Bell needs a downside tbh.
It does not. Ill fight ya
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@apathyinc said:
Both All Seeing add-ons need to be changed. Those add-ons are too easy to use for trolling players by slugging them all and letting them bleed out. Having the speed Wraith has, and knowing exactly where survivors are is too much of an advantage.
Hold up, what does being able to see gen progress have to do with slugging people to death.
And tbh, his iri all seing is about the same info you would get from quite a bit of the gen tracking perks, not that big of a deal.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507761#Comment_2507761
"Local man terrified of lockers. More at 11."
as a matter of fact im pretty sure enduring doesnt affect wraith´s stun time when cloaked.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507762#Comment_2507762
One you have full information on and must run loops like every other M1 killer, with counterplay on short loops but long loops are his enemy. One has no issues at all except with the P3 immersed survivor deciding to taste test every bush in the trial.
I just don't get how you can compare Wraith to that #########??
nah not comparing, just some similarities in concept. almost every change people can think of for wraith make him slighly similar to spirit. but, as you said, is basically a healthier version.
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@Jago said:
I suicide on hook
hold up, if tecnically it is the entity that kills you, does that still count as suicide?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507749#Comment_2507749
At least you can tell what Wraith is doing and where he is (when he's near you) and the big DING DING of "Hey I'm uncloaking <3" adds substantially more counterplay than Spirit, so is much healthier than her even with the change
yeah. i have always seen some analogies between Wraith and Spirit but it has been a lot more common lately.
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@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507694#Comment_2507694
The conversation isn’t well what about survivor addons perks etc. It’s a simple change that would add a limited window of counterplay to a wall hack addon. Wraith is not reliant on addons anymore, and you can get the addons very quickly.
I’ll humor the discussion about survivor addons not having downsides.
Bnp-if you miss the skill checks you lose the effect of the part along with a substantial amount of toolbox charges
Syringe-You have to wait 16 seconds base and if you change health states you lose the effect, also it consumes your medkit.
Styptic-You only get it for 8 seconds and the killer can see that your medkit was consumed.
The only addons that are considerably one sided are the key addons to preserve the key whether they open the hatch with it or die. But yeah survivor addons don’t have downsides.
As for addons like the aura reading on keys, those have an incredibly limited charge so comparing them to wraiths addon is also nonsensical.
Summary: Constant wall hacks until the point of a lunge which is almost impossible to avoid unless the wraith is on controller, and the persistence of this addon. Simply ending the aura reading when the killer starts uncloaking is more than fair as it still allows the wraith to get vision but at the same time would allow a survivor to make a potential play in a skillful manner.
just as a note, at this point Wraith just seems like a healthier spirit. If your change somehow became a thing, that would be basically like what spirit does with aura reading.
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@Maphusail said:
What I don't like about reworked Wraith is his almost instant uncloacking. No matter if you see him and run away, due to his speed he just body block you and unclock so you always get guaranteed hit.
its not that short really, 3 seconds is quite a bit all things considered, and his uncloaking speed add ons arent really that crazy
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507714#Comment_2507714
I got distracted while eating lunch blame the salami
Curse you Salami!
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507694#Comment_2507694
Wraith can do incredibly well basekit, now that Windstorm isn't practically required though lol
i actually dont think he needs windstorm as much. i really like dishing my gen tracking perks and just going iridescent all seing with pure chase/utility perks
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507678#Comment_2507678
Both sides so have incredibly strong things, yes. However taking a look at them, the Syringe add-on is probably the best, as it is a health state within 16 seconds. It's a very, very strong add-on, however consumes the entire medkit upon use and can be cancelled out if they change health state beforehand. It has it's uses and it's downsides.
Brand New Part is possibly the worst offender of not having a particularly massive downside. Whilst it's nowhere near as strong as it used to be, being able to compete 25% of a generator very very quickly and not even consume the toolbox after is a smidgen too much, and the downside to that being "don't get interrupted or don't miss the skillchecks" isn't that big of a downside if you're smart while using it.
All flashlight add-ons are trash except batteries, but they're not good enough to warrant the downside. If anything they should be buffed. Same with Maps.
Blood Amber is an incredibly good add-on, but has the downside that you use a key up at 50% the rate. Once keys themselves get gutted this should be fine. The main strength of it comes not from the Blood Amber itself but the fact it sits on a key.
Gel Dressings, Medical Scissors, Socket Swivel, and Wire Spool you could make an argument for being very good, however this is mostly down to the utility of the item itself (with Medkits, followed by Toolboxes, being the best 2 items in the game). They're the only really, incredibly good add-ons I can think of.
And killers have this too. Mother Daughter Ring, for example, removes Spirit's primary form of tracking now that sounds have been changed, and Nurse's range addons also increase the charge time.
Wraith's All Seeing Blood is on the fence, in that in some scenarios it's overbearing good (indoor maps, especially RPD/Hawkins), and in others it's practically worthless (very open outdoor maps, like Blood Lodge). I don't think it's perfect, but I also don't think it warrants a downside to compensate (unlike some add-ons, topknot). I feel like having the aura fade out as you uncloak, as was mentioned by someone else in this thread, and I think that would help allow survivors a bit more maneuverability during the ubcloak and allow them to potentially trick the Wraith player as they uncloak. Even then I'm not sure it needs the change.
Overall, outside of charge add-ons (maybe) and Brand New Part, I wouldn't say there are any survivor addons so good that they really need the counterbalance of a downside. However, not everything has to be an us vs them, survivors get this killers get that, etc etc debate. Balance isn't just nerfing one side and buffing another- they both play completely differently and so both should be treated differently. Just because one thing is getting a downside or slight tweak to numbers doesn't necessarily mean that the other side needs to have one too.
Does that make sense? I hope so??
unholy bible you got there bud. Dont worry i read it all up, so, yeah, fair enough.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507647#Comment_2507647
Please show where exactly I stated I was on about "All-Seeing- Blood". I was talking about a general principle. :)
Wait, even then your principle is wrong, because for it to work there would still need to be no Incredibly strong thing on either side. It works in theory thinking about one side having a really strong item while the other one does not, but that just wouldnt be the case here.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507647#Comment_2507647
Please show where exactly I stated I was on about "All-Seeing- Blood". I was talking about a general principle. :)
oh. Why would you talk about that when people are debating about all seeing blood.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507294#Comment_2507294
Hm, yes. Rules for them but not for me.
Please go back to the example I gave, and let's analyse it together since reading through the bias glasses must be so hard for you.
"If survivors have a strong thing with no downside, but killers have an incredibly strong thing with no downside, there's no need to add a downside to the survivor thing if you add a downside to the killer thing."
So. Survivors have a strong thing. Killers have an incredibly strong thing. To turn the killer's incredibly strong thing to strong, a downside is added as a countermeasure. To turn the survivor's strong thing to strong, you don't need to add a downside, because it is already strong but not too strong.
Capiche?
that would work if first of all, all seeing was even remotely close to incredibly strong. And that is also supossing that no survivor add on gets even close to incredibly strong, which is just a lie.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
His default design is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. And even though he is one of the most fun killers... I just can't stomach him.
makes sense. at the end of the day he is supossed to be someone with his face burned.
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@Yords said:
I like scott's idea of nerfing it, make it not work until you have been cloaked for at least 5 seconds.
You mean all seing add on?
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507215#Comment_2507215
Actually, he wouldn't. It would give the survivor more time to reach a window or pallet because of how easy it'd be to see Wraith, essentially removing his ability to get free hits most of the time. If you'd like to see how that would go, use the meme add-on that gives him a terror radius while cloaked, while giving him bonus bloodpoints.
To add onto this, lets not forget that Wraith's invisibility reduces the volume of the sounds he makes. From his growl to his footsteps.
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@glitchboi said:
Wraith is finally strong enough to handle the average teams! He's still not the best killer, but he's WAY better than before. No longer add-on reliant, feels threatening to go against, and actually quite relaxing to play as if I just wanna turn off my brain.
That doesn't mean I'm open to a few more changes to him, though. I would change his "All Seeing" - Blood add-on to tremendously reduce Wraith's speed to 126% while cloaked to give it a downside, it just removes the ability to mindgame Wraith most of the time. However, I'd still like to buff Wraith in some way, to his base-kit precisely. I would change the speed while uncloaking back to the way it was before 4.6.0, I don't think that part of Wraith needed to be nerfed.
I actually disagree there, due to the cheer speed wraith has you can just get on top of someone so easily that the speed debuff was kind of needed . Hell i wouldnt mind making it a bit slower if you really wanted to.
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@RenDesune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/281314/supa-thread-wraith
I'm not going to say Wraith is OP but I find playing against his very underwhelming as in he's boring. The undetectabity, super speed inside stealth and uncloaking are all just stale to play against. You could take away his invisibility all together and he would be the same boring killer. Their is no thought in cloaking yet the player gets instant reward.
Tbh for me Wraith is more of a Theme thing than a gameplay thing. The idea of an invisible growling person that materializes by the sound of his bell sounds cool as #########, and he delivers it quite well. If we see it from a gameplay only perspective well yeah, that aint that great.
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@th3 said:
All Seeing addon needs a downside. I would prefer that it stops showing the aura when you start uncloaking.
Agreed.
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30 to 40 minutes long match, pre speed buff Wraith on old coldwind. Survivors decided i didnt deserve to kill them amd just hid. No gens done, 2 survivors. They didnt even get crows.
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Yes, undying shouldnt be able to save a totem thrice - Mesage sent to you by the internet explorer gang.
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YouTube.
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Like in a vacuum, survivors. In an qctual game, killer by far. Besides hit validation and stuff, i still remember tha breakout bug
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Absolute flex
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2463954#Comment_2463954
I don't want it gone, but it is kinda problematic, always been.
And honestly I prefer if irri addons change the way to play the killer but that is just something personal.
Why I find it problematic is because of the combination between silent bell and all seeing and the playstyle that people do these days which from what I've seen is a hit and run + super lunge spam, no mindgames or trying to outplay.
Only that if people didn't combine it with all seeing I would be 100% ok with it.
Then you have to change all seeing, not iri clapper.
And it for the most part changes the way you play, going for sneaky attacks rather than just body blocking, and if you combine it with The ghost add on is great fun.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Yes.
Great then. I was gonna miss the icons they have.
Still dont know why would they change the names tho, im pretty sure netflix doesnt own the rights the to wrd Babysitter.
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This has been said before. Do the totems.
Unless you are playing against me, please stay away from my totems
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Wraith. As a fan of stealth games something about playing a stealth killer felt suiting. Being invisible sounds cool, the "Bell warning the incoming danger" gimmick is also great, his backstory was rather tragic and his look seemed nice.
No, im not a freddy main who swithed to wraith, i have been playing him during the time wraith players prayed for buffs.
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@OldHunterLight said:
Rework is a bad word to use in this thread.
Addon pass is what wraith needs, only that not anything else.
Especially silent bell and all seeing purple.
Also, to vs a wraith unless he has the uncloaking addon which I believe is swift hunt? Is to loop, if he has that addon then most likely you will get a hit but if he doesn't then just learn to loop.
Why would you want silent bell gone? It does what an iridescent is supossed to do.
About all seeing blood. I guess you could lower the range and make it switch places with the iri one.
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@miketheratguy said:
Wraith is cheap and everyone knows it. Killer mains just don't like Killers being nerfed for any reason ever. If a character has all the abilities in the world (invisibility, incredible speed, near-total silence, a fast power lunge) it will still always be the survivor's fault for not always carrying a flashlight, always running Spine Chill, and not having portable windows and proper loops in their pockets to use against him whenever he appears out of nowhere for his free hit.
In other words "he's fine". Just like Spirit. "He's fine". "He's fine". "He's fine". "He's fine". C-tier at best. Git bettur.
As a wraith main, dude you are you spouting some bs. Wraith is B tier at most, everyone knows how to counter the hit and run at this point
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@GannTM said:
No he's fine. All he needs is an add on pass.
Doesnt even need an add on pass. All of them are good, besides maybe the blink add ons.
Please, i fear my boy will get gutted like billy, dont do this
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Wraith
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2450629#Comment_2450629
Μy build is Sprint burst, BT, WGLF, We'll Make it or DS if i feel like run it.
I like to help my teammates plus the bloodpoints.
Because i don't like RuinDying i am not going to adapt my build to counter them.
thats exactly why you adapt your build to it. if i dont like dealing with, lets say, tenacity. ill bring Deerstalker.
if i dont like dealing with the on genkick perks (pop, dragon's, overcharge) ill use repressed alliance. thats literally it.
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@Predated said:
Honestly, the problem DOES lie with Ruin. Remove Ruin from the equation, and Tinkerer is fine. Remove Tinkerer from the equation, and there are still a lot of doom scenarios.
The fact that Ruin automatically regresses gens AND doubles the regression rate is what makes it so danm powerful, especially with Tinkerer and Undying. I think removing the automatic regression and adding more double regression rates(missed skillchecks, Surge, Eruption, all current regression perks except for Pop, which needs to remain exclusive from Ruin as 50% regression is overkill unless they rework Pop to be 25% of the progression made rather than kicking away 25% of a total gen) would make Ruin far more interesting, without being so oppressive on already oppressive killers.
You mean, pre rework ruin?
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@Predated said:
Honestly, the problem DOES lie with Ruin. Remove Ruin from the equation, and Tinkerer is fine. Remove Tinkerer from the equation, and there are still a lot of doom scenarios.
The fact that Ruin automatically regresses gens AND doubles the regression rate is what makes it so danm powerful, especially with Tinkerer and Undying. I think removing the automatic regression and adding more double regression rates(missed skillchecks, Surge, Eruption, all current regression perks except for Pop, which needs to remain exclusive from Ruin as 50% regression is overkill unless they rework Pop to be 25% of the progression made rather than kicking away 25% of a total gen) would make Ruin far more interesting, without being so oppressive on already oppressive killers.
You mean, pre rework ruin?
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@SquidBad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2414154#Comment_2414154
I don't know the validity of this, but regardless of how it came to be this way it should be based on hooks or kills, not the emblems.
Look it up. Merciless went from kills to bps to emblems. Adept didnt change
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@SquidBad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2414154#Comment_2414154
I don't know the validity of this, but regardless of how it came to be this way it should be based on hooks or kills, not the emblems.
Look it up. Merciless went from kills to bps to emblems. Adept didnt change
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@SquidBad said:
was trying to get my bubba adept, so I don't have the luxury of bringing perks to help me. Hooked a feng min, then an injured Ace immediately in my face unhooks. I swung, intending to lunge around feng min but the aim assist forced the hit onto the feng min during her i-frames, robbing me of the down. She bodyblocks me from going after the Ace because with her borrowed time, forcing me to chase her off the hook. She runs into a locker, and because I can't afford to wait out her DS I risk opening it. DS'd, she runs away immune. Pressure/Adept ruined. Survivors have perks that offer them these huge safety nets, and when they take them off to get their adepts all they have to do is escape to get it. As killer, you have to rely on survivors being very boosted if you want to stand any chance of getting an Adept as it requires a MERCILESS victory. That's an insane requirement and it should be lowered to a 4k. DS should not activate in lockers because thats just garbage. Killers cannot afford to sit out the minute, so they eat the DS or leave. Tunneling was never my intention but survivors have the ability to force it on you with BT bodyblocking.
the thing about Adepts is, im pretty sure they were thought of back in the time where a 4k meant merciless victory.
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@AGM said:
Spine Chill is fine. If you think someone has Spine Chill you can just look to the side as you approach. If you don't want to bother, that is on you, not the perk.
the range is exagerated.i once had a wraith literally chase someone else, completely paralel to me, and spine chill was on.
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putrid map, horrible optimization, looks alright but i aint blinded by nostalgia, a ######### ton of safe pallets, then literal waste pallets. And not to count is a maze.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2400984#Comment_2400984
He is ranged, hence why a decent amount say that. I like him too, I think he's fine. I was just more or less curious as to why people suggest these ideas.
By the by, the suggestions in my post aren't mine, those are stuff I read.
"Ranged" he has a 18 range, MAX. Its not trickster or huntress who can harass you from the other side of the map.
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@Laurie268 said:
Overcharge and dragon’s grip are made to counter gen tapping, you could run those.
Overcharge sucks. I have been able to hit the skill check while i was running away.
Dragons grip however is better, but god damn does it have a lot of cooldowns.
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@InsatiableMop said:
150% feral speed call it done
Haell naw.
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Myth: You can avoid Wraith's lightburn by looking away.
Truth: no the ######### you cant. I have seen so many players , even experienced players, just casually look away from flashlights as Wraith to try and avoid getting lightburned ,im gonna end up with a stroke.
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Dont give him a lullaby, what the hell. He is fine as he is, give a small 0,75 second cooldown for ads si he doesnt just spam it, add on pass and maybe increase reload speed after a succesful reel in hit.
Im more worried about trickster.
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@AGM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2399768#Comment_2399768
If they got away fine then they didn't mess up, you did. Just because you hear the scream doesn't mean you "deserved" the hit. You're just frustrated that you heard them scream because you associate the scream with a hit. If they didn't scream you would be none the wiser. The server is the referee now, instead of your client, which is 100% more fair. No offense but you need to get over your Pavlovian conditioning.
Nah man, i literally have been playing survivor all day, and is serious bullshit. I can greed pallets all i want but wont get hit. Its not a matter of false info, id about an stupid amount of i frames.
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