Marzipan210
Marzipan210
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950945#Comment_3950945
I mean… yeah. Survivors are physically incapable of winning without being total wankers about it. Imagine if you gave them voice comms.
I've been flamed in end game chat by my solo q survivor teammates. I can't imagine how bad it would be if they could talk during the game lol
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@MissMischief99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950395#Comment_3950395
What they failed to realize is that it takes four survivors and only one killer to start a match. If you continuously keep survivors, unhappy they’re not going to play and there won’t be matches..
All of these changes that they’ve been implementing with the HUD information, now these penalties, etc., are saying that they want this to be a team game, but it’s not a team game.
If they really wanted it to be a team game, they would give us communication, but they don’t because of SWF. You cannot truly be a part of a team if you don’t have communication. Solo Q is not a team, but they’re trying to force us to be one.
They keep giving killers multiple powers and making them stronger while leaving survivors in a stale place. This is not like Friday the 13th where you could have three or four or even all seven counselors team up and jump Jason. Sure to a degree you can team up in dead by daylight, but it’s very limited and unless you are an SWF those team ups are going to be brief.
Trying to force one half of the two parts that make up this game play a specific way is not going to work. And it’s not going to work when they try to force the other half to play a certain way as well. Although I do not like tunneling and slugging and camping, they are strategies. Just like stealth and running save strategies for survivor. If you’re taking all of these things away from both you’re gonna end up with a very stale game that nobody wants to play because every game will be exactly the same, which is what we are seeing right now With the FNAF release.
Forcing survivors to do nothing but objectives and not have any type of strategy in their gameplay is a big mistake. And it will also be a mistake to force killers to not be able to have strategy.
Imagine playing call of duty and they tell you that everybody is into a line and just walk towards each other and shoot and anything outside of that is going to be penalized. That is effectively what is happening right now. But we’ve only gotten half of it because the killer side of things hasn’t happened yet. When it does, we’re going to have constant games of exactly the things that both sides don’t like. Killers will be gen rushed because that’s survivors’ only option right now. And when killers can’t do anything but hook survivors in a specific order, they’re not gonna like that either.
So if you are a killer man right now and you are so happy about all these changes because you’re getting your 4K just wait until it’s your turn because all of the nonsense you’ve been spewing now about how survivors are just whining and complaining will be put right back on you when you’re forced to hook different survivors and you can’t slug etc. etc. When you take the freedom of strategy out of an online game you take the fun out of it. And right now the fun has been taken out of the game for survivors. We are being forced to play in a very linear way with no room for variation.
This isn’t super Mario Brothers, where the way to play is very linear. This is an online multiplayer game where people are going against each other, and to not have the freedom to form strategy is going to be the ruin of this game.
The dbd community is too awful for built in voice communication
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Ah yes lets just take all the chaos out of chaos shuffle by making perks basekit
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They are probably just going to up the numbers on the basekit bt. Maybe they will also make it so that killers can't bodyblock survivors with endurance and vice versa. Though I can already see the complaints now about how they can't take hits with bt anymore.
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I had a fun match using security badge and streamers with make your choice, gift of pain, jagged compass and floods of rage.
Hook near doors, immediately head to the other side of the map after hooking, when the unhook happens the unhooker will be revealed by floods of rage and be exposed by make your choice so you can quickly teleport back and down them, and gift of pain will make the unhooked survivor take longer to heal and be slowed on gens after they get healed. -
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948286#Comment_3948286
Luckily there’s perks that can help with that. Corrupt intervention and random map RNG/Spawns can be a counter to instant gen work. Lethal will also show you right where everyone is too. Though to be honest if the survivors instantly start working on the first gen they find that’s usually not good for them in the long run anyway.
Well guess what, survivors also have perks to give them free distance in chase so by your own logic there is no reason to be complaining about killers being able to get into chase quick
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947760#Comment_3947760
Not at all what I'm saying, I'm suggesting to use what's available to you if YOU PERSONALLY are struggling with the playstyle.
Much like how survivors use Exhaustion to help deal with killer powers, doesn't mean Killer Powers need nerfed?If killer haste perks were as strong as survivor haste perks we'd never hear the end of it. Every single perk that gives killers haste doesn't give them nearly as much and has far more requirements and limitations. Survivor exhaustion perks can be as simple as pressing a button and the only requirement is that they not be exhausted. Like how does that make any sense to you?
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948403#Comment_3948403
I think if a Scratched Mirror Myers burns a map offering, it should be guaranteed. Scratched Mirror does not deserve the utter destruction that comes with this map offering change.
tbh it is time for Scratched Mirror to get buffed. Let him move at normal movement speed and have a full lunge.
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Tunneling is always going to be a thing. They'd have to change the whole game from the ground up to get rid of it.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948285#Comment_3948285
or maybe it's because a quite survivor isn't as much of an impact as a quite killer. It's definitely an impact but it doesn't compare to a quiet killer.
The impact is the same. It can be the difference between noticing and not noticing them.
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Why can survivors instantly get on gens?
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Unless you are suggesting to killswitch everything quieter than average(which would be a lot of the ######### in this game) then this entire thread just comes across as pointless whining
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It isn't any more pay to win than any of the various survivors and survivor cosmetics that are quieter than they probably should be.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947760#Comment_3947760
There's a huge difference between "you have to run X to counter Y" (for example, you can't counter tunneling without bringing at least one perk designed for that)
And "if you struggle with X, you have the option to run Y". (For example, if you struggle with the situational awareness for flashlights, you can run lightborn to help with that)
You seem to be reading the first one.
Interestingly, the (recent) counter example to your way of thinking is "distortion was required to counter aura reading" and yet they nerfed distortion instead of aura reading.
Curious.
Perks being used to counter oppressive strategies is one thing. Perks just being free value in chase for no skill or thought or risk involved is another and that is what lithe sprint burst and balanced are. They just give the survivor free distance for nothing. Those perks aren't hard to use. They aren't skillful. They aren't interactive. That was a problem with pre-nerf distortion too. It gave value without input on the survivor end and promoted an un-interactive playstyle.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947719#Comment_3947719
I feel like Exhaustion are closer comparable to killer powers honestly. It's the closest thing we have to them aside from items.
there are plenty perks and builds to counter exhaustion, just most killers only run gen regression to ever think they could pressure better and perform better with chase perks.
If you're struggling in chase I recommend you try some builds to help you perform better where you fall short, or maybe the killer you are using doesn't suit your playstyle.
"Exhaustion OP" complaints are always a nothing burger.If a perk is so strong that your suggestion is to run perks to counter that perk then that perk is clearly a problem. My real issue is less that they are strong and more that they are just mindless chase extenders. They are both easier to use and provide more benefit than killer haste perks do.
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Sprint, Burst, Lithe and Balanced need a speed reduction. They should be 125% like dramaturgy. 150% is just too much for too little input from the survivor. No killer perk gives killer that much haste and they all have more pre-requisites. Rapid Brutality removes bloodlust and only activates after hitting a survivor. Unbound requires you to hit the survivor and vault. Batteries only activates near completed gens, etc.
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BHVR's lack of a QA team is showing.
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@QueenUni_xo10 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944656#Comment_3944656
Yeah stealth is a thing, that's why people complain if you run perks like urban evasion as survivor because it's "Not a good perk". From what I've seen, it's commonly agreed that stealth perks like urban or quick and quiet are C tier at best because ultimately, stealth is a waste
But ofc, it's fine for killer to be undetectable. Ya know, the role that controls the match and ultimately influences the outcome more than survivor does
Ok and? Most killer stealth perks are also off meta and stealth in general is countered by the simple act of paying attention.
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If you think Killer is easy you either don't play killer or you only play Nurse and Blight with 4 slowdown perks
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Stealth is a thing. Get used to it.
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have you considered paying attention?
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@ThatRyanB said:
You've brought up some good points about Batteries Included in this thread. The simple answer here is that after buffing it alongside Steady Pulse, the team noticed that the increased burst of speed had become a little too oppressive, given how easy it was to trigger and how long it would stay active.
While we are bringing the Haste % back in line with it's pre-Steady Pulse value, we still want to explore ways of making this Haste valuable to you. By increasing the radius at which this effect will trigger around a completed gen, it should offer more flexibility in how you path your chases and make it easier to get that burst of speed. Of course, it's something we'll be watching closely over the coming days and weeks!
As for your question about why this wasn't tested on the PTB, it was unfortunately a case of timelines not always lining up. A few perk changes were made slightly later in the update cycle and weren't able to make it into the PTB build. As mentioned above, we're always monitoring for feedback we can bring back to the team, so we'll be keeping a close eye on these perks as folks go hands-on with them tomorrow!
Will we ever see nerfs to perks like balanced landing, sprint burst, and lithe for the same reason? Considering they are easier to trigger and provide even more speed to survivors than Batteries Included did?
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@Royval said:
Houndmaster, Ghoul, Dracula, Vecna, Chucky, Alien all just feel the same and it doesn’t feel like a change in gameplay. 6/8 killers that have released have been snooze fest and I’ve been forced to take multiple breaks from the game.
Houndmaster don’t have to explain extremely boring I will never enjoy playing against this killer call the dog, grab me, free hit rinse repeat.
Ghoul free hit with no effort for injure, zone me with the leap hit make stupid noises rinse reapeat.
Dracula same thing zone me for free hit pull out the hand for a hit rinse repeat same with the dog.
Vecna kinda fun to play against outplaying the use of mage hand or whatever after that boring M1 killer.
Chucky extremely boring only one way to down doesn’t have much of a kit. Get snd on cooldown zone rinse repeat.
Alien come out the tunnel get a hit zone or get hit over a pallet or small loop.
Survivors when killers have powers that do something:
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Considering the dbd community is actually the worst I fully expect anyone new to be driven off within the first month.
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Next patch intentionally getting yourself killed early in a match will result in a DC penalty and a grade demotion.
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Even the go next prevention won't make the kill rates any more accurate. As long as both sides are capable of throwing games to potentially inflate or deflate kill rates it makes no sense to use them. What the devs should do is actually test their own stuff instead of relying on their steam playerbase to do it for them like unpaid interns.
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agreed. and they should issue an apology for having made a bunch of kneejerk changes at the behest of a toxic community.
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survivors just call anything boring when they fail to win against it 100% of the time.
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Hate to burst the rabid anti-Skull Merchant bubble(actually no I don't) but the 3 gen meta started in patch 6.1.0 with the the buff to Overcharge and Eruption, killer kick speeds, gen time increase, etc.
Imo 8 regression events per generator is more than enough for the average game. Though I do think eruption could do with a change just so that it doesn't take one of the 8 just to kick the gen to put eruption on it. -
Been trying Chucky again lately. First time I have played him since before he got nerfed and they ######### him up. No more manual scamper(it needed to be changed but not like that), no more 180 flicks, slower slice and dice movement.
like he is still playable but so much of the skill expression is gone and you are left with basically just another generic m2 dash killer.Same thing they did to Skull Merchant. They gutted all the stuff that actually made her enjoyable and skillful to play and now she is just a generic place trap in loop to make the survivor leave the loop kind of character.
They really need to get their act together when it comes to killer balancing because that is not it. -
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940467#Comment_3940467
JCGlitchmaster did a video where he showed that you can have a chase that lasts under 30 seconds after finding that survivor in under 30 seconds, hook that person on a pain resonance hook and immediately pressure the gen in question and it can be at 80% complete still. Do you not see how little room that gives a killer for anything?
If the "80% complete" gen is the last one, then sure, I can see how that would leave little room for the Killer to do anything. Anything more than one gen remaining is a bit early to panic. And very few Killers seem to understand that it's still possible to kill all Survivors even with all gens done.
And you will probably just say "well just get better at chasing" but there is only so much that being good at chasing can get you as an m1 killer on a map full of resources for the survivors to use.
Resources that get depleted as the match goes on. This is one reason why the late/endgame is when the Killers are at their strongest.
Try playing a killer with no map mobility or strong chase power against good survivors on a large map with lots of pallets. Until then you don't get to tell me that we already have the tools to deal with this.
Here's a better idea: Try playing Survivor and see how "easy" it is to make the gens fly.
And being able to get all that pressure for so little skill involved while the killer has to actually run around and work to get their pressure when there is only one killer to the four survivors doesn't seem lopsided at all to you? Yeah its possible to win with all gens done sometimes but not always. Some maps have too many resources, some perks just make it too hard to catch survivors quickly, etc. We aren't all playing top tier killers.
I play both roles. I have plenty of survivor games where we have gens popping left and right, even without gen rushing builds. If you spread out on gens against killers without mobility there is basically nothing they can do to pressure gens. -
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940124#Comment_3940124
While mostly true, it does take some skill on when survivors make the decision on what gens to do and when. Mindlessly repairing gens can lead to an impossible endgame scenario. I personally like going for the middle gens immediately while the killer has 4 opponents to juggle. Those center gens are a LOT more difficult to do mid to late game when resources are lower and potentially there are less survivors still alive. It's less mechanics skill and more gsme knowledge and putting it to effective use skill.
Not nearly as much skill as it takes for the killer to be able to quickly find and down survivors and pressure gens.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940123#Comment_3940123
They've spent 3 years giving you tools for this.
Maps were made smaller, tiles, loops, and pallets weakened, dead zones are weighted heavier now. They spent at least 2 years buffing 1-3 killers every patch individually. All of that reduces chase times, which is the entire point of my post.
They got chase down to 60 seconds per survivor (on average) for the entire match, so killers (on average) are finishing chases in under 30 seconds. That's insane.
Map mobility and lethality? Have you seen the recent killers? Every single killer seems to come with haste, map traversal, and probably some kind of additional slowdown mechanic.
And even then, I highly, highly contest that these are required for killers to do well. The most lethal killer right now is Freddy, at a whopping 71% kill rate. And that's across the board, at every MMR. So survivors who do "git gud" are still going to die to him about twice as often as they escape. Freddy is generally one of the poster boys for "weak m1" killer.
ETA: What you really mean by "they haven't given tools for this" is slowdown. You want (need?) gens to take 5 minutes each. They reduced chase times for you on top of adding extra gen time, and nerfing prove and BNP, and people still want to go back to Gen kick and 3 gen metas, because playing pve gen kick simulator is all sone people know how to do.
Nice straw man. Why are you acting like Freddy doesn't have the tools I am talking about. He has both a mobility power and an anti-loop chase power. That is more than what Trapper, Skull Merchant, Legion, and Pig have.
JCGlitchmaster did a video where he showed that you can have a chase that lasts under 30 seconds after finding that survivor in under 30 seconds, hook that person on a pain resonance hook and immediately pressure the gen in question and it can be at 80% complete still. Do you not see how little room that gives a killer for anything? Like if it takes you just a little bit longer to find someone or just a little bit longer to down them you lose that gen. And you will probably just say "well just get better at chasing" but there is only so much that being good at chasing can get you as an m1 killer on a map full of resources for the survivors to use.
Try playing a killer with no map mobility or strong chase power against good survivors on a large map with lots of pallets. Until then you don't get to tell me that we already have the tools to deal with this. -
No. Stop playing the game if you don't like it. Its a multiplayer game. Other people are going to play stuff you don't like. Deal with it.
You wouldn't accept killers banning perks they don't want to go against. Cause you better believe I would never allow another sprint burst or lithe to be in my games again. -
@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939405#Comment_3939405
The answer to that question is that if the gens start popping too fast, the killer got unlucky or got outplayed from the start. The same thing can happen to survivors. If survivors get unlucky or perform poorly, they'll go down fast, gen progresss will slow quickly, and they'll have enough hooks that it becomes unrealistic to finish the gens outside of the killer comitting to an insane chase. Sometimes a game leans toward one side over the other early on. Realistically, I see this as a game balance issue that BHVR needs to work on :/
The only times gens pop because the killer got outplayed is when the killer makes the mistake of chasing a survivor for too long. But even when that doesn't happen gens still pop too fast. They take no skill to do on the survivor end.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939405#Comment_3939405
So there's a very fundamental way that I look at the game that is, apparently, not how many other people on these forums see things. So let me explain a bit:
There are 2 main premises for how I play:
- The default for survivors is to do gens and leave. If they have nothing else to do, they will do gens.
- The primary method the killer has to slow down the game is to give as many survivors something to do at the same time as possible.
So I aim to get into a match, establish pressure as early as possible, and give as many survivors something to do at the same time as I can. So, generally speaking, I don't want to camp the first hook because that survivor is already not doing gens and I need to give someone else something to do other than gens. If I leave the hook, then one is on hook, and another survivor will come to rescue automatically. I don't need to wait around to witness that, and I certainly don't need to be nearby to chase either of those two. They already aren't doing gens… I need to give the others (who are doing gens) something else to do.
So, ideally, I have one on hook, one going for rescue/recovery, and one in chase. That makes only one survivor on gens. If they get greedy, and leave someone on hook, then I have the potential to have two on hook, and the other two both have to rescue, so no one is on gens at all.
Compare that to hard camping or hard tunneling early: If you hook one and stand around the hook, you're investing all of your time on a survivor who already can't do gens. So even if one person comes to rescue, that's a minimum of two on gens you're just letting do whatever they want. And if they have a way to confirm that you're camping, then they can just leave one on hook and then you have all 3 doing gens.
A similar thing happens with tunneling, where if you just chase one person, the rescuer can go right back to gens. So you put maximum pressure on one person, and you have 3 survivors doing gens behind you. It's literally a race to see if you can get one person out completely before the gens are done. And this is where many people complain about "gens are too fast" because they're not able to hard tunnel fast enough at a certain point.
So, to me, if I "spread pressure", I can end up with only one person dedicated to gens (maybe less, if I have other tasks like Devour Hope or my pig hats), as opposed to 2-3 survivors dedicated to gens. That, right there, is effectively 2-3 times the slowdown that hard camping or hard tunneling gives you.
I also believe that Lethal Pursuer is the best perk in the game. Early game is when the survivors are strongest, and establishing pressure as early as possible is important. LP removes the guesswork and waste of time "searching". THis is another big difference, is that I feel like many players who complain about this are running 4 slowdown perks, then taking forever to find the first survivor and close out the chase. Yes, of course "gens fly" if you've effectively done nothing for the first minute of the match and are wandering around blindly.
And they have not given every killer the tools to do that consistently. It is almost impossible to spread pressure on killers without map mobility or lethality. So again yeah you are going to have to tunnel sometimes if you want to have a chance at winning. I am not saying you need to do it from the beginning of the game but like every killer youtuber I have ever watched has said that you should try to identify the weakest link in the survivor team from the start of the match and attempt to get them out before two gens are left.
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@CrypticGirl said:
One, exactly how would you nerf exhaustion perks?
And two, if Killers like Kaneki can delete distance, imagine how much worse they'll be to face with exhaustion perks nerfed.
Cut the movement speed bonus in half - turning the 6 meters a second they get into 5 meters instead. Much more reasonable for the little amount of effort those perks take to proc.
Imagine going against those perks as a killer with no mobility or catch up mechanic and you'll get why killers like that get played so often.@Lexilogo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939556#Comment_3939556
Please take a moment to take the bias blinders off.
While Killers do not have Sprint-Burst esque Haste bursts, bear in mind that Sprint Burst essentially buys you +6 meters. Unbound gets you about 4.6 meters per proc for 115 Killers, and its activation is not rocket science. Killers don't have big bursts of Haste in their Perks, they get slow trickles because they already move faster than Survivors anyway and dash Killers exist if you want bursts of speed.
I would also argue Killer stealth abilities/Perks also delete distance for free, just in a more indirect and subtle way.
I appreciate that the state of M1 Killers can be frustrating at the minute, but I don't agree that things like Sprint Burst are the problem. Dumpstering exhaustion perks would only serve to decrease player agency.
You are kind of making my point for me. Killers get less value out of similar perks than survivors get despite the fact that survivors get 16 slots between them and killers only get 4. Saying that dash killers exist isn't a point. Not everyone is playing dash killers all the time. Not everyone even likes to play them. But even when we don't play dash killers we still have to go up against sprint burst lithe and balanced that we have no way of dealing with other than just eating the distance the survivor gets for doing literally nothing.
Survivors complain all the time about killers and killer perks being too easy or not taking skill when it is survivor and survivor perks that are just too good for no reason. -
@Lexilogo said:
Really disagree with this, sorry.
First, it's actually okay if Perks don't require skill or input involved. Not every Perk needs advanced conditions, it is ok to have perks like Botany or Lightborn or Brutal Strength that simply work.
And second, I disagree with putting Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing into the category of a no-skill Perk anyway. Balanced Landing requires thought in how you'll get to the elevated areas, it can easily be useless depending on where the chase is happening (not to mention that verticality is usually to the Killer's advantage, so you're kind of playing with fire). And Sprint Burst will never get much use if you play without thinking about it, you need to avoid sprinting at certain times (or if you're 99ing it, sprint for a while without stopping) in order to reliably use it to make distance.
Lithe is the only Exhaustion Perk that I could agree deserves a nerf, but any kind of significant Lithe nerf would be a pretty big blow for Survivors. It'd need to accompany wider balance changes, like maybe the upcoming anti-tunnel stuff.
If there was a killer perk that made the killer move as fast as a sprint bursting survivor, it would require the killer to hook all 4 survivors, lose 3 gens, and even then it would only last for 2 seconds.
Why do survivors get to have perks that just give them free distance that is un-counterable for most of the killer roster? Isn't this the exact thing survivors complained about with Kaneki? That he could just delete distance for free? Why the double standard? If we are going to say that killers shouldn't have powers that let them delete distance for free then why should survivors have perks that give them distance for free? -
@Memesis said:
Maps are a grab bag in terms of quality for survivors. There are maps with too many connected tiles of safe pallets (think autohaven maps, eyrie of crows, the game, springwood), and then there are dead zone death valley maps (parts of redwood maps, spirits map, coldwind farm maps, haddonfield). In the former, exhaustion perks will feel too strong, but in the latter, they are absolutely necessary to reach a semblance of balance. This needs to be addressed first before we can talk exhaustion perks. In the meantime, try running vecna's languid touch perk, or mindbreaker if you've got either of those killers.
They have been needing to address maps for a long time but it hasn't kept them from gutting strong killer perks or even killers themselves. They can absolutely gut these cheap survivor perks right now.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939429#Comment_3939429
Like sorry but that isn't how it works lol. You didn't get outplayed because the gens were popping too fast. Gens just pop too fast. Faster than the majority of the killer roster can hope to secure downs.
Ironically, I think this is basically what the OP is referring to.
You lose a match, and the first thing you do is preclude the possibility that you could've done anything differently to win the game. How do you expect to improve at the game when your first response is to just lock out the possibility that you did anything wrong?
Sometimes you lose because you made a mistake sure but there are a lot of times where you just get ######### because you ended up on a ######### map playing as a weaker killer against survivors abusing busted perks. Like what is an m1 killer supposed to do against 4 sprint bursts/lithe/balanced landings on a ######### up map like Garden of Joy?
Unless BHVR is prepared to nerf the everloving crap out of some of these nonsense perks and nonsense maps then killers without strong powers are going to end up having no choice but to tunnel a significant amount of the time. -
@KeefCheif said:
I think a lot of people here are taking personal offense to this discussion and that's not constructive at all. I urge you to take a step back:
Tunneling hinders your growth as a killer if you:- Tunnel regularly regardless of the context
- This case is targeted at killers whose strategy is: I hook then I patrol nearby so I can tunnel when the unhook happens
- Hardly anyone regularly falls in this category, but it's still an issue
- Generally avoid tunneling until things start to look bleak
- this is where we all need to take an honest step back and ask ourselves: did we get outplayed (cooked in chase, made a costly mistake, …etc) and if so the argument at hand is that regularly tunneling in this scenario hinders your overall growth. This is a fairly subjective analysis at times which is why this discussion can feel like a personal attack imo.
- I fully sympathize with the argument that it's nearly impossible to win as the killer in a 4v1 scenario, so if that's the case the discussion at hand should shift to how can we make the 4v1 more balanced so that killers don't feel forced to tunnel. But please, do not use the 4v1 as a blanket statement excuse to justify tunneling every time your game is heading towards a loss.
Finally, keep the original discussion point in mind: excessive tunneling hinders fundamental growth long term.
I'm personally guilty of tunneling in matches that I would have normally lost simply because I was getting outplayed, and it doesn't feel like a good win. Hopefully others can empathize or at least sympathize with that feeling.So you are basically saying that if the survivors get too many gens done too quick you should just accept that you are going to lose instead of trying to turn it back?
Like sorry but that isn't how it works lol. You didn't get outplayed because the gens were popping too fast. Gens just pop too fast. Faster than the majority of the killer roster can hope to secure downs.
If you don't like tunneling, then ######### tell BHVR to buff the weaker killers so that they don't have to. Then maybe you can have more basekit anti-tunnel. If you implemented more anti-tunnel now you are just going to be making it more necessary to run the stronger killers and making the weaker killers even weaker.
Like telling people to just play better when they can play super efficient(getting into a quick chase and getting a down relatively early in a match) and still be losing a gen before they can hook is just absolute nonsense. The fact is for like half the killer roster it is not possible to get downs as efficiently as survivors can get gens done efficiently - if the survivors are playing efficiently. - Tunnel regularly regardless of the context
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937421#Comment_3937421
If survivors were leveraging an imbalance that builds bad habits, it would be against their best interests.
The specifics of how these things function is relevant. If survivors rely on what I'd call genrushing - stacked toolboxes with accompanying perks - then I'd say yeah, they're probably on borrowed time there, pun not intended. BHVR have been ramping up taking care of imbalances like that, toolboxes are inevitably going to get some kind of changes sometime.
If survivors are just splitting up and being generally efficient on generators, though, that's not as clear of an imbalance and there's no reason to assume it'll get dedicated changes (outside of the one on this PTB, anyway, that was always the outlier here). There's no reason that would apply to this logic.
Same for killer, by the way. If you're just efficiently playing your objective by juggling survivors and spreading pressure, there's no reason to assume that's going to stop working for you. If you tunnel someone out as your main tactic, you're both going to build bad habits and become reliant on that tactic, and also be left twisting in the wind when tunnelling gets nerfed.
And what is the killer supposed to do other than tunnel when gens pop too fast? The best way to stop gens from popping is to remove a survivor from play. It is better slowdown than all the slowdown perks combined. Like you are coming at this from the perspective that every killer can get into chase quickly get a down quickly and get into the next chase quickly but that isn't the case at all. Most just don't have the mobility for that and fewer have the chase potential for that.
Like as a survivor you want to spread hook states out because it gives your team more time to get the gens done and get everyone out. How would playing into that at all benefit the killer? -
I'm sorry but this is like telling survivors that trying to get generators done quickly is against their best interests. Tunneling, camping, and gen rushing are all the same thing. They are just examples of trying to get your objectives done as quickly as possible.
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I like the idea of killer items having their own spawns that take priority over anything else. Then when you don't have a killer that uses those spots for anything you can have chests there.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933141#Comment_3933141
That's easy to say, but having Survivors leave the game will just lead to eternal queue times for Killers, and then the game itself will die.
are you implying that the majority of survivors are rage quitters lol
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@SpeedyThumbsGaming said:
The go next prevention seems harsh for good players, and the players that have been going next, will just be even more mad that they are being held hostage in your game and either shut off the game, and stop playing it all together or be afk and not contribut to the game.
And since this effects all players not being able to 4% chance off hook, how many players are going to say enough is enough and stop playing this game.
If you keep taking instead of a non take solutions people will get tired of it and just go next to another video game.
They should go to another game. Why are they booting up dbd just to not play it? They clearly don't actually like playing the game if they just quit at the start of every match.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914763#Comment_3914763
This is kind a weirdly confused way of approaching this.
BHVR specifically said they looked for games where a survivor died on their first hook. So I could see some reasonable discussion about "this method had too many false positives or false negatives to be accurate", or "this doesn't account for everything" (which you kind of try to say at one point).
But you're going full bore into "I don't believe they can even track this at all" which seems unreasonable. It's fully within a computer's capability to record stats like this, and we know BHVR looks at game stats regularly.
And, as a thought experiment for you: I personally don't believe your claim that this is impossible for them to do. Which of us has the burden of proof? were both denying a claim at that point, and we both can't be right
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914763#Comment_3914763
You are contradicting the facts of the matter.
Either give us some proof or admit that it's conjecture and doesn't really mean anything.
You could say that for literally anything in this game and the awesome part of it is, you don't ever need to provide any proof to back up your statements!
Its on BHVR to explain how they determined whether a match had someone give up or not. They did not do so and until they do I call bullshit. Simple as.
Edit: they also just don't have a good track record at actually having done the things they claim to do. They claimed to have fixed flashbangs twice in a row and they were still broken. I don't think it is unfair to want an in depth explanation of what they did. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914747#Comment_3914747
so then prove it.
Since when is the burden of proof on the person who rejects a claim? BHVR claims they can filter out games where survivors give up. I am not gonna believe them until they prove it. And hook suicides are only a small percentage of the way people give up.
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As long as BHVR chooses to listen to people who hate the character over the people who have actually played as her, this rework is doomed to failure and the game itself likely doomed to be dumbed down to sameness on all sides.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911320#Comment_3911320
BHVR addressed that as well.
Obviously, DC's are already excluded from KR stats, but Hook Suicides accounted for just 2% of SM's KR.
There is zero way they can account for people giving up. Also giving up can be more than just hook suiciding. It is when you stop trying to play the game. Which also happens a lot.