ManWithALemon
ManWithALemon
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Killer: Frank. He's edgy, he's quiet, and he looks good. All positives.
Survivor: Steve. No contest. Man is an icon.
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Overall, the map reworks don't do anything good. All they do is add obnoxious, time-consuming breakable walls and, generally speaking, make loops even safer.
There are two exceptions. Ormond is definitely better for Killers now, but the main building is still the worst and the map is still huge. Meat Plant is... the safest map in the game. And that's including Haddonfield.
With the kind-of exception of Ormond, every single map rework has been a disaster. Especially Autohaven. I DESPISE new Autohaven. Way too dark, way too safe, and kills my frames for some reason.
I hope BHVR realizes how awful their map reworks are before too long.
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@KingFrost said:
People really don't think their ideas through. These are all bad ideas. BT works the way it does, because otherwise it doesn't work at all.
"Protection HIt = It doesn't count!" - So it doesn't work against Plague at all then. Or Legion in many cases. (It already barely works against Leatherface).
"Survivor Loses Collision!" - So now killers can hit the unhooked person with impunity, meaning that Borrowed Time OR DS are required perks.
Borrowed Time is fine the way it is. It gives survivors a way of getting away from the hook, during which time they are most vulnerable. Yes, they can body block. That's what a good teammate does. And after 15 seconds of endurance, they have to mend for 12 seconds. It's a tradeoff that works just fine.
""Protection HIt = It doesn't count!" - So it doesn't work against Plague at all then. Or Legion in many cases. (It already barely works against Leatherface)."
Don't see why Plague or Legion would stop the Perk from taking effect. And it doesn't work against Bubba for entirely different reasons.
"Survivor Loses Collision!" - So now killers can hit the unhooked person with impunity"
Literally what.
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I like to imagine Victor dies, Charlotte opens up a new locker and has to pick her favorite [totally fully grown big adult man guy] before just casually yanking him out and shoving him back into her gut.
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I love how BT, the anti-tunneling Perk, is most often used to force the Killer to tunnel so that both Survivors can get off scott-free.
My philosophy is simple: If you force me to hit you while BT is up, well, BT is anti-tunnel, right? That obviously means I'm tunneling. So let's go ahead and tunnel you into the ground.
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Blight seems to attract people who aren't sweaty, but can stomp anyways because they're just that good.
Hag, Doc, and stealth Killers seem to be played by the sweatiest people.
Pig attracts people with a full-on superiority complex. They think they're better than everyone else, will sweat so hard the Survivors' monitors will fog up, and will teabag taunt nearly every time they get a down of any kind.
No wonder she's mained by a certain developer.
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Sloppy Butcher. I think it's next to useless because of how easy it is to heal quickly. Even more so on M2-reliant Killers.
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I don't like stealth. I think it's boring. The game can try to be hide-and-seek all it wants, but let's be real: the chases are the fun part.
As far as I'm concerned, if you like to be stealthy, you don't like actually playing the game.
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You become numb to the scares after you ride through the gameplay loop enough. It's a simple matter of building up resistance.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2028114#Comment_2028114
I am aware of Survivor's 3rd person camera. I'm wondering what kind of camera you've got if you think you can see most of what's going on around you when you're on a generator that's inside a Jungle Gym.
I'm in red ranks. Most people up there are much more scared of tunneling, slugging, and camping than what I do. Because of that, I don't see much in the way of Spine Chill or Healing perks. It's not unheard of mind you... but lobbies with zero spine chill is FAR more common than lobbies with four spine chill. 4 DS is way more common.
Then Sloppy is even better. 32 * 0.2 is what I did. Yes a survivor healing another takes 16 seconds, but that requires 2 Survivors to stay put. That means that total amount of time the Survivor team loses by healing is 16 * 2 or 32 seconds. If dbd is calculating things your way, then a 2 person heal takes 20 seconds for a total of 40 seconds of lost Survivor time.
The heal progress bar disappears into the ether if you down a Survivor before it completes. If 2 survivors are 15 seconds through their 20 second heal and I stab the person with the heal bar before it completes... well they can kiss that 30 seconds of time goodbye. That's 10 more seconds than Pop will buy you. Its from a different source and can end up being less than Pop's 20 seconds but it still works quite well. That doesn't even count all the time you save if they haven't even started running before you stabbed them. Closing the distance when the Survivor isn't moving is so much easier.
As for the numbers... well... its dbd. They do math weird and I forgot that when I wrote that.
"I am aware of Survivor's 3rd person camera. I'm wondering what kind of camera you've got if you think you can see most of what's going on around you when you're on a generator that's inside a Jungle Gym."
I have a camera. That I USE. To LOOK AROUND.
And if that fails, I also have EARS. That I USE. To LISTEN to my surroundings.
You can go on about Trail or Monitor or Tinkerer all you want. Unless your Killer is a stealth Killer, they're going to have a Terror Radius for 99% of the game, so even if you're playing against the resurrected corpse of Louis Braille, they're gonna know you're coming.
"'m in red ranks. Most people up there are much more scared of tunneling, slugging, and camping than what I do. Because of that, I don't see much in the way of Spine Chill or Healing perks. It's not unheard of mind you... but lobbies with zero spine chill is FAR more common than lobbies with four spine chill. 4 DS is way more common."
I see Spine Chill pretty much every game. Matches where it's in groups of two or even 3+ are not uncommon. Probably because it's one of the best non-second chance Perks in the game.
"Then Sloppy is even better. 32 * 0.2 is what I did. Yes a survivor healing another takes 16 seconds, but that requires 2 Survivors to stay put. That means that total amount of time the Survivor team loses by healing is 16 * 2 or 32 seconds. If dbd is calculating things your way, then a 2 person heal takes 20 seconds for a total of 40 seconds of lost Survivor time."
40 seconds of lost Survivor time... condensed down into 20.
And then 20 seconds later, they're back on a gen. That's assuming they even heal, which they might not because if they have Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, E key, coms, or EYES AND EARS, they're probably not going to be that scared of the Killer sneaking up on them.
"The heal progress bar disappears into the ether if you down a Survivor before it completes. If 2 survivors are 15 seconds through their 20 second heal and I stab the person with the heal bar before it completes... well they can kiss that 30 seconds of time goodbye. That's 10 more seconds than Pop will buy you. Its from a different source and can end up being less than Pop's 20 seconds but it still works quite well."
You say this like Sloppy healing takes literally any time. At all. It doesn't. If they want to heal, they'll be healed before you get there. And if you slug, you better stay on top of that slug because if you don't, they'll be healed before you come back.
And all this math you're doing also does not take into account things like medkits or Inner Strength or the absolute MYRIAD of other healing items Survivors can bring that make healing take like 2 microseconds. So that's even less time wasted and even less time to get that down.
"Closing the distance when the Survivor isn't moving is so much easier."
Sure, it's easy to get close when they're standing completely still. And when they're running away? You move a measly 15% faster than they do. That's why W key is a problem. Because if the Survivor starts running when you're more than an atom's width away from them, Killers who don't have powerful mobility or good range (which is a lot of Killers) catch up so pathetically slowly it's unreal. And given the amount of tools Survivors have to up their situational awareness, from a giant FoV to Spine Chill to SWF comms, they're more than likely going to know you're coming before you do.
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@Dpooly said:
@ManWithALemon How many times you gonna move the goalpost? If you can't catch a 'Hold W' survivor, that's on you bud. Sure, some maps that still need a rework make it a challenge sometimes but not enough to make it a problem.
If a W key Survivor gets caught against the majority of Killers, that's on them*
ftfy
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027896#Comment_2027896
Holding W is difficult when you don't know you need to do it. Which is literally the entire point of the Undetectable Status and using bits of level geometry to break Line of Sight. The only time it doesn't work is if the gen is out in the open or they have Spine Chill, and Spine Chill is actually not super common.
Sloppy buys you 6.4 seconds per injury outside of survivor healing perks or medkits which isn't too bad. Also it gives me 20% longer to spot and ambush them when they do heal with Nurses Calling. Then... downing someone mid heal can buy me more time than a single instance of Pop. Despite what you seem to be implying, I do know what I'm doing... and it has been working for me.
"Which is literally the entire point of the Undetectable Status and using bits of level geometry to break Line of Sight. The only time it doesn't work is if the gen is out in the open or they have Spine Chill, and Spine Chill is actually not super common."
"The only time it doesn't work is if the gen is out in the open"
Even if the gen isn't out the open, Survivors' wide, third person camera allows them to peek around all kinds of corners. They can survey a huge portion of their surroundings even despite walls. And it's not even that hard to do. Just look around you as you're on a gen.
"Spine Chill is actually not super common."
What rank 20 matches are you getting that people don't run Spine Chill? I see it every single game.
"Sloppy buys you 6.4 seconds per injury outside of survivor healing perks or medkits which isn't too bad."
Where the hell did you get these numbers from? That's not true at all.
Sloppy reduces healing by 20%. It changes the speed at which you are healed at base from 1 charge per second to 0.8. Healing requires 16 charges. 16 / 0.8 = 20. It adds 4 seconds. Or at least, it's supposed to. I heard from somewhere that it's actually bugged and only adds 3 seconds of healing time. Even if it's not bugged, though, 4 seconds is barely nothing. Even if you injure all 4 Survivors, that's 16 extra seconds, less than one-fifth of a generator. It's garbo.
"Then... downing someone mid heal can buy me more time than a single instance of Pop."
I don't even know how you made this absurd deduction.
"Despite what you seem to be implying, I do know what I'm doing... and it has been working for me."
I really highly doubt you do if you don't even know the numbers behind the Perk you rate so highly.
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Clown is in D tier. He'd probably be able to best me in combat due to his sheer size but I'd like to see that fat bastard catch me as I calmly walk away.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027833#Comment_2027833
More like I purposefully have a playstyle or build that makes holding W nearly impossible or significantly less strong most of the time. When Tier 1 Myers abruptly steps around the corner 1 meter away from you, you barely have enough time to not get Gen Grabbed much less hold W and unless the Survivor does something dumb, I don't continue the chase post hit. My Legion build has M&A and Trail of Torment in it for a reason. I run Sloppy on a lot of Killers so switching targets post M1 is much more viable.
The only way holding W is a problem is if the Killer lets it be one... except for a few badly designed maps that are still in the game.
Sounds to me like you have Survivors who lack situational awareness. The strategies you're describing can be W keyed by just, you know, having eyes and ears. And if that fails, run Spine Chill.
Also, Sloppy is garbage. Just saying. Even ignoring the fact that Survivors have enough healing Perks to give any DBD player a shortcut through medical school, Sloppy barely adds any time to healing at all.
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Everyone whines about Twins' camping potential but no one ever talks about basement Twins.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027789#Comment_2027789
I have. It works vs Killers who don't know how to counter it. When I'm on Killer I usually have very few issues with it.
Your Survivors must be very bad at holding W then.
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@FFirebrandd said:
Outside of Mother's Dwelling, Midwich, and maybe Haddonfield... the "Holding W" problem isn't one. Most killers have Mobility, Range, or Stealth to mitigate it... or are a territorial Killer who shouldn't be following any Survivor who does it. Also there's a decent number of Killer Perks who can further mitigate it.
@Dpooly said:
There is no 'holding W' problem, it's all in your head.
Have you tried holding W?
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Because the game is easy. Hundreds of hours to become a genuinely good player is nothing compared to other games or pretty much any craft other than video games.
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body is 1 character too short
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I think above all else what I want for Trickster is some kind of style points system. If he's a Trickster, he should be rewarded for doing flashy stuff with his power.
Ideas for style points rewards:
- Hitting knives from long range awards bonus Laceration.
- M1'ing a Survivor causes you to do bonus Laceration damage for a short period.
- Basekit ricochet. Knives that ricochet off the ground split into three. Survivors cannot be hit by more than one knife at a time. Knives that ricochet off walls or ceilings do not split and inflict double damage (similar to PTB Trick Blades).
- Add a style points meter. Doing any of these special style points events listed above helps fill the style points meter. Instead of simply hitting Survivors with knives to unlock Main Event, you know unlock Main Event using style points.
Speaking of Main Event, I think it should be reworked. Here's my proposal.
- Main Event can now be saved when unlocked, instead of needing to activate it right then and there.
- Main Event has different effects depending on whether you activate it in melee mode or throw mode.
- Activating ME in throw mode grants unlimited knives, increases throw speed, and every knife hit increases movement speed by 1% until ME ends. However, you cannot use your basic attack. Lasts for 10 seconds.
- Activating ME in melee mode temporarily increases movement speed to 120%/4.8 meters per second and inflicts Survivors with the Exposed status effect. However, you cannot throw knives. Lasts for 15 seconds.
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@Alice_pbg said:
those are called bubbas masks.
and they are f*ing annoying to get.
no, I don't want extra stuff. you have the prestige cosmetics if you really want something
- Bubba's masks were made back when there were, like, 8 Survivors in the game. Of course they'd be annoying now because they haven't been tweaked to accommodate the increase in playable Survivor characters.
- Prestige sucks. It sucks to get, it sucks to look at, and it sucks to have more expensive Bloodwebs.
I'd love rewards for specific characters that actually require you to show off your grit with that character and look interesting in return.
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Haddonfield. No contest.
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Considering there are entire "top tier" Killers whose powers are completely countered by a single key on your keyboard—Pyramid Head and Freddy come to mind—when Survivors just hold down one button the entire match, I'm always left asking myself the same question:
Why did you even boot up the game if you clearly don't intend on actually playing it?
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2023246#Comment_2023246
It was ment to be taken as a light hearted comment about a character that I liked but thought was a little weak.
I also thought that the first sentence read as much:
"I'm not going to pour one out for the new girl, but I have the bottle already cracked open."
Well, unless you think I literally have a bottle open next to me and am going to offer a drink to a fictional character
Gonna be honest, g, I just thought you perceived Trickster as a female.
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You keep referring to the Killer, who is male, as a female.
Trickster is not female. Why are you calling him "homegirl"?
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2023207#Comment_2023207
You can now cancel Main Event so you aren't at least trapped in the full duration. If they make it so Main Event can be activated whenever you want after you fill the meter then it'll have a use as you can wait to use it when the time is right.
If stays like it was on ptb where you can only activate it during a small window, then I can't see it being good.
Given the drawbacks, I'd rather just spam my knives normally so I can retain all my basic abilities without needing to channel Main Event's activation or eat a fatigue if it ends mid-chase.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2023182#Comment_2023182
Main Event is also bugged on PTB so you are a lot slower during Main Event than you should be. We'll have to see if Main Event is worth using on live with the bug fixes.
Even if the movespeed gets increased, you still cannot M1, cannot break pallets or walls, cannot vault windows—you cannot do anything except throw knives while in Main Event.
And if they change Main Event to start throwing knives automatically, then that means Trickster will lose out on his ability to stop throwing knives for a second to lose the obnoxious recoil.
So it might even be a nerf depending on how you look at it.
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@grayon444 said:
I know this is supposed to be a joke tier list but let's just wait until we can play him.
I played him for literal dozens of matches on the PTB and he was atrocious then. If the Twitter changes are the main changes to him, he's getting an overall nerf.
So I have plenty of confidence in my opinion of his viability.
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@indieeden7 said:
We'll have to see just how easy it is to get main event up now, if it doesn't take much he could be alright. Trickster seems like he might be similar to old Legion where although his power isn't very lethal, there isn't much you can really do about it.
Main Event actively hurts you though???
Also, yes, you can do plenty about it. Find a wall.
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They absolutely neutered his best addon in exchange for QoL buffs on a special ability that hinders you more than it helps you.
They nerfed Trickster. They nerfed a 110 M1 Killer.
Let that sink in.
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I've tried repeatedly to get into Otz. But he's just so boring to watch. Unfunny, unentertaining, uninteresting. I'd rather have a streamer who's bad at the game and is enthralling than a streamer who's good at the game and is boring.
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@Shoottokill_Shinsou said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2020594#Comment_2020594
Game mechanics allow them to be efficient. If they do this, they win. However, most survivors aren't good enough or coordinated enough to maximize efficiency. So, yes, they are better. Killers can still win against tournament squads. The killer just has to outskill the survivors, and maximize efficiency on their end.
Maybe, if you're playing Nurse, Spirit, Blight, etc. But as most Killers outskilling the Survivors won't matter because you'll just get outperked, out-pallet camped, out-w keyed, and out-second chanced.
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For the longest time I never realized that Monitor and Abuse was the top half of Doctor's face. I thought it was... Well, to be honest I had no idea what it was. I simply couldn't piece the image together. It just looked like lines to me.
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@Soulslayer618 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011972#Comment_2011972
why even have the wall breakable there then?
seems kinda counter intuitive if you ask me
And that, my friend, is the question we've been asking the level design team for the year they've been in the game.
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As a Twins main—I've had games where I've been unable to use Victor's ability at all and ended up inadvertently doing the "no pounce challenge" because of map design or Survivors always trying to pressure the side of the map where Charlotte was.
And let me just say, it was miserable. I had basically no power. I was a complete M1 Killer. Victor's tracking was useless because Charlotte on her own is far too weak to capitalize on it. The reason Victor's tracking is good at all is because Victor can do something about it without relying on Charlotte. I was a permanent tier 2 Myers without the smaller Terror Radius.
Don't do the no-pounce challenge. Your sanity will thank you.
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There are two types of sexy?
Can we please see them?
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Myers, Wraith, and Doctor.
I have bad eyesight, so I don't like stealth Killers to begin with, and Doctor's whole "I can disable your ability to use any of the windows and pallets that are your bread and butter for keeping me from hitting you" nonsense is infuriating. Above all else, though, I hate these Killers because the people who play them are so sweaty that I can see droplets on my computer screen.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003759#Comment_2003759
I have said multiple times now that how we define tunneling doesn't really matter, subjective as it may be. Swap "tunneling" with "preferentially chase survivors with more advanced hook states whenever convenient" and then let me know how you feel about my point.
I did. I think preferentially chasing Survivors with more advanced hook states whenever convenient is a totally fine gameplay tactic and having a hook counter would not be unhealthy just because it assists that tactic.
Don't want to get hooked? Don't go down.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003700#Comment_2003700
Is your point that tunneling is not unhealthy for the game and therefore should be encouraged? Every killer in the game, no matter how weak, has the tools to prevent similarly-skilled survivors from completing generators. No survivor should be able to prevent a similarly-skilled killer from tunneling them to death, though, and it's a frustrating experience. That is why there are so many disincentives to tunneling.
You're welcome to die on the hill of tunneling just being "efficiency", but I'm not going to bother debating that. Killers are welcome play however they'd like, but I will always support the devs incentivizing behaviors that make the game as fun as possible for everyone.
Your definition of tunneling is just wrong. It's not even a matter of debate. It is just objectively wrong. By your logic, if I hook a Survivor, the others let him get to second stage, I hook everyone else once after they get unhooked, and then when all four of them are together, I go for the person on death hook, I'm tunneling. That is just absolutely wrong. Unless I am going out of my way to focus a Survivor and kill them, I'm not tunneling. Simply choosing to chase someone because they're closer to death isn't tunneling. It's basic game sense.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003522#Comment_2003522
The game tries to encourage hooking someone then leaving the hook to chase someone else, because that is the sort of gameplay that's most enjoyable for both sides. There are many mechanisms for this: BT, DS, BBQ, Devour Hope, Make Your Choice, more pips for killers who chase and hook more, much higher BP payout for killers who chase and hook more, etc. It doesn't matter if tunneling someone into the ground is often the best way for killers to win, because at the end of the day it takes the fun out of the game. Nobody should want that, not Behaviour, and not the players. Killers can still tunnel whenever they'd like regardless of whether or not there are hook counters on the HUD, as we've established, but it is absolutely not something the game should encourage. Showing hook states would be expected to encourage tunneling, though, and should therefore not be done.
Adrenaline, toolboxes, etc. have nothing to do with this.
You're saying that because being efficient with hooks is not fun for Survivors, Killers shouldn't have a hook counter. I'm saying that if we're keeping stuff out of the game that isn't fun for Survivors because it encourages the Killer to do their objective, then we should remove all the tools that encourage Survivors to do their objective because that isn't fun for Killers. Otherwise there's an obvious bias that shouldn't be here. Both sides should be treated fairly.
Either we add a hook counter, or we remove "anti-fun" pro-generator tips and tools for Survivors. That's the only fair choice here.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003442#Comment_2003442
You're right that killers who are paying attention and want to tunnel without the HUD. Everyone gets the HUD, though, and it incentivizes everyone else to also attempt to remove survivors from the game early. This would only be a QoL benefit for the same people who would be negatively influenced by it, namely those who don't keep track of hook states. For those who already track hook states this is a moot point as it provides no additional information.
My comment says "define tunnel how you want" to make it clear that 1) everyone defines tunneling differently and 2) how you define tunneling is entirely irrelevant to my point. Adding hook states to the HUD for killer would encourage killers to preferentially target specific survivors to remove them from the game earlier than they otherwise would. That just results in more frustration on the survivor side, less fun, more toxicity, etc.
Tracking just the total hook states also passively encourages people to hook survivors instead of slugging them, which again is irrelevant for skilled players, but which incentivizes more casual players to play the game in a way that is more fun for everyone.
So, adding hook counters is bad because it encourages Killers to play in a way that causes them to win the game.
Let's remove Adrenaline then. And toolboxes. And the gen counter. Those all cause Survivors to play in a way that cause them to win the game, so clearly they're just as bad.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003356#Comment_2003356
The portraits do very little for killer. It's easy to tell different survivors apart just by looking at them, and if multiple people are the same survivor the portraits don't help at all. I'm sure there are plenty of players who don't intentionally tunnel and who frequently lose track of hook states who would nonetheless preferentially chase people who are closer to death if they had hook state information in the HUD to make it obvious.
Adding hook state information to the HUD for survivors discourages tunneling by encouraging survivors to play more aggressive when their teammates have been hooked more than they have. Adding hook state information to the HUD for killers encourages tunneling by making it clear for all players, regardless of how much attention they've been paying, who they should target to get an advantage in the match.
If someone knows enough to keep track of which Survivors they want to tunnel without using the HUD, then they're going to tunnel. Killers who actually WANT to tunnel have been doing so meticulously and liberally since the start of the game. Adding hook markers doesn't help them because they don't NEED help. All adding a hook marker does is add a QoL buff. Denying that because of tunnelers who tunnel anyway and have been doing so for the past five years is stupid.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003349#Comment_2003349
Define "tunnel" how you'd like, but It absolutely would lead to killers removing survivors from the game earlier, which is not fun for survivors and therefore not something the game should be encouraging. It doesn't need to be a hard tunnel to be relevant; it could be as simple as chasing two survivors off a gen and preferentially going for the guy on death hook just becasue you saw it on the HUD. This is irrelevant for high-level players because they already keep track of this stuff, but for more casual players it just makes for less fun matches.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing for a killer to try to remove a survivor from the game early - I can't knock playing to win - but I think it's bad for the game to push killers to play this way, especially at low to mid rank.
You have a very skewed definition of tunneling if you think tunneling is just going for the Survivor you know is closer to death.
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@HuDawg said:
This is a bad idea because this will encourage tunneling more so thats a no
You know what encourages tunneling more than that?
Showing the image of the Survivor who was hooked in the HUD so you don't confuse them with someone else.
Better not add that—oh wait.
