ManWithALemon
ManWithALemon
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328742#Comment_2328742
Re: time wasting, that's straight up not true. Victor already can't be within 16m of the hook and has a 10m base shriek radius when idle. That means, if you want to be sure you're not going to be seen on killer instinct by a potential camping Victor, you need to crouch from ~32m (assuming the killer wouldn't put Victor more than 6m outside the minimum radius while attempting to camp) all the way to 6m (when you're sure you won't be within 10m of Victor). Crouching is at 1.13m/s, so this 26m trip takes 23 seconds, as compared to 4.33 seconds while running. As a result you're wasting close to 20 seconds of time on every single hook save when he isn't camping. When he is camping the time loss is more variable. Best case is the Victor is directly in front of you at ~22m from the hook so the milisecond you start crouching you hear his shrieks. You lose around 7 seconds of time to crouch all of the way up to him and crush him, assuming no obstacles and you can just beeline right up to him. It's extremely unlikely for things to go that well in practice, so I think 10-20 seconds of wasted time per hook save is a pretty good rule of thumb.
The other factor is that Charlotte knows a survivor is there the second Victor is crushed and Victor also rapidly recharges after being crushed. If Charlotte is in the same zip code she can be bearing down on the hook with Victor in tow by the time the save is made.
For the time wasting thing: When someone camps a hook with Victor, that means they leave them under/next to the hook before picking up the Survivor. So your math is completely erroneous there.
For the whole Charlotte thing: Again, just plain wrong. You have plenty of time to just, you know, run away. Hell, if you bring We'll Make It, you'll 100% be able to heal before you get pounced on.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328716#Comment_2328716
I'm pretty sure BT triggers for Victor's pounce too
It does, but that’s not that important when Victor can see you and pounce before you even get the unhook.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328688#Comment_2328688
No but you could also be wasting your time as you never know if Victor is there or not, and you also need to remember that as soon as you get a loud sound notification they'll probably swap over to Victor immediately anyways and either latch onto the unhooker or down the hooked
For your first point, the time wasted is so small that it’s basically irrelevant. Not even worth taking into account.
For your second point, in order for Victor to detect someone going in for the save, he has to be close enough to the hook that his shrieks reach them. Meaning you will be able to hear Victor, sneak up, and kick him with little effort.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I thought camping with Victor wasn't possible anymore since BT buff?
It's more like camping with Charlotte was made impossible.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/262931/psa-how-to-counter-victor-camping
This also works on Hag traps, for all the new people to the game. And Toblerone's spilled trail of lasagna.
It took me several minutes to figure out what you meant by "Toblerone's spilled trail of lasagna".
Well played.
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
Or maybe they should make it so that fool can't be near the hook.
I know, right? Holding LCTRL is such a difficult technique.
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@Hoodied said:
Almost every hook has a hiding spot for Victor near it while the hooked survivor is still in shrieking range, meaning you won't notice Victor is camping almost ever until you enter the range of his shrieks
Or you could just assume Victor is near and crouch beforehand in the exact same way you would do to a Hag who's trapped the hook.
Seriously, does this community just lack object permanence or something?
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328524#Comment_2328524
Okay, this I can relate to. I’ve been enjoying them a lot lately as well and this is a common, unfounded accusation in my trials.
Your thread is about defending hook camping though.
It's not even trying to defend it. I think it's a really stupid tactic, actually, and people who do it are idiots, precisely because of how hilariously easy it is to counter which is what this thread is actually about.
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@Edgars_Raven said:
I didnt know crouching cancels killer instinct on them. It doesnt with legion. Good to know and strange this hasnt come up before
It says in Twins' power description that Victor detects Survivors who are "walking or running" near him. This is a very, VERY literal description: If you are doing anything other than walking or running—doing gens, healing, standing still, or most importantly crouching—Victor doesn't detect you. The only exception to this rule is crawling.
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@brokedownpalace said:
You were really desperate to condescend today I see.
Well when I get yelled at for camping with Victor for the fortieth time this week when I WASN'T EVEN CAMPING WITH VICTOR it gets pretty damn annoying.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328466#Comment_2328466
So when you’re camping with Victor you leave him out in the open?
Ah, I see you’ve yet to master step 1 to finding out if Victor is there or not!
Or you’re five months old and lack object permanence which means that if Victor isn’t visible he doesn’t exist to you. Luckily for you, there’s another special trick to this!
So, what you need to do if you don’t immediately see Victor is you need to do this weird thing called “expecting”. You need to expect Twins will have Victor near the hook, much like how you would expect Huntress to use her throwing weapons to hit you at a distance, or expect Trapper to put bear traps near strong loops. Once you do that, you need to preemptively crouch so that you don’t get detected upon nearing the hook without seeing Victor.
Now, if you still can’t see him, there’s another hidden trick. Victor reveals Survivors who can hear him. Meaning that if you’re crouching near a hook, and Victor is camping, what you need to do is use your ears and listen for the high-pitched snarls of a Quentin main trying to go for a flashlight save. This will allow you to locate Victor through any and all walls so you can kick him and render the hook completely safe.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
This is disingenuous. Many players don’t know Victor is camping until they enter his lullaby range, at which point the killer switches and hits the incoming survivor.
There’s a simple trick for that, too, actually!
Step 1: When approaching the hook, remember that the Killer you’re facing is Twins, and that Victor is a thing that exists.
Step 2: Look for the idle Victor GLOWING BRIGHT ######### RED near the hook.
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@Orion said:
I tested this in KYF. Their effect is still the same.
So... did I? That's kind of the point of this post.
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@Clowning said:
That's actually really interesting. Thank you for taking the time to dive into this. Hopefully the possible update will make them feel less clunky, as I doubt anyone's fond of the "Victor on ice" situation we have right now.
If zombies are any example to go buy, if Twins gets AI added into their kit, they’re going to become ten times clunkier.
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@Rougual said:
My guess is the opposite. Charlotte Roams while you play as Victor, she wanders at a slower speed like the zombies, emits a normal Terror Radius and maybe changes direction to face survivors that are in the radius of Victors "Growls"
This could explain how the add ons could be viable; you charge and pounce on a survivor with Charlotte nearby, when you switch back Charlotte is facing towards the one you just pounced on since she was walking towards them the moment before you pounced.
If you had the Drop of Perfume addon they don't even know she's still around while you were charging the pounce since they would have been Oblivious before you triggered the Oblivious from being latched.
I highly doubt this will be the case. The fact that the Cat’s Eye description mentions Victor roaming, combined with the fact that technically speaking Charlotte is the Killer and Victor is the power, leads me to believe that if someone is to get the AI, it’s Victor.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/262621/so-twins-got-shadow-nerfed-again
Oh wow. I didn’t notice this until you pointed it out.
These are very, very strange changes. It’s not like Soured Milk or Madeleines Glove were too strong.
And Drop of Perfume went from pretty good to more pointless than Haemorrhage.
I did some digging. The addons are functionally the same. The descriptions however are very different.
This is also true for Cat's Eye. The description now says "When Pounce is fully charged, Victor roams silently."
I think this is a party bottle situation.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Ai victor soon i hope
If they make Victor AI I'm never playing Twins again.
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UPDATE
I tested the addons with a friend. Their effect is the same as before. The description is incorrect. This means that this is most likely a case of party bottle Clown where they accidentally leaked some addons for a Twins update.
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Too bad I'm gonna DC every time I get it.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2325837#Comment_2325837
I'd disagree, personally. Twins have more than one playstyle, and his method of applying as much map pressure as possible is much more fun for both sides than just getting everybody injured with Sloppy Butcher as Charlotte before mass slugging with Victor. Plus, mass slugging doesn't work that well if survivors have a brain and group up in pairs, or kick Victor after he downs someone.
I don't know. I like playing Twins as a macro, big brain thinking killer rather than "injury woman and nae nae baby". Again, though, much like Plague they have multiple playstyles. I'll admit I slug if I have to, but I never go for anything higher than 3 man slugs unless the team has really annoyed me.
That's the thing. That whole "hit with Charlotte, down with Victor" thing that most Twins players do? Dowsey does that exact thing, only he just doesn't use Charlotte. I admit I don't tune into his streams frequently because I hate his personality and clickbait content, but when I see a Twins video of his pop into my YouTube feed, 99% of the time it's him instantly unbinding Victor when he finds someone and then flailing about uselessly as Charlotte waiting for Victor to come back when he either lands a pounce or misses it and gets kicked. It's so sad that people think THAT'S top-tier Twins gameplay. It's not only NOT top-tier Twins gameplay, it's actual bottom-of-the-barrel, I-don't-actually-understand-Twins gameplay.
And regarding slugging not working, you said so yourself: Most Survivors don't know how to counter Victor, which means it works quite well most of the time.
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@Altarf said:
My, mostly unsubstantiated, guess is that Twins have a very high kill rate statistically, and the balance team is desperately doing random nerfs because they don't understand why the kill rate is so high.
Said kill rate being high is because:
1. They probably have the lowest pickrate of all killers by a long shot, and are very difficult to learn and play, and so most Twins players will be people who have stuck with the Twins and as such are good at them. Such as Dowsey. I'd be genuinely willing to bet that his winstreak matches alone have made up at least a quarter of all Twins games.
2. Twins are difficult to play against for solos, like Hag and Freddy. They do have counterplay, but very few people actually know and use it. Not only that, but since nobody plays the Twins, survivors have not developed experience in playing against them. Remember when Bubba got reworked and nobody knew how to play against him, and people said he was an S tier killer? The same is happening for Twins, except they are played much, much less than Bubba
This is why they do things like run away from a Victor who missed a pounce or downed somebody, and run in towards hooks without crouching to check if Victor is there.
3. Twins are very good at camping and slugging, and this often overwhelms solo players. Plus, people tend to suicide against Twins a lot, pretty much winning the game for them.
The only nerfs the Twins need is to increase Victor's respawn time by about 4 seconds, and to make it so that Victor gets destroyed if he's in very close proximity to a hook with a survivor on it. Aside from that, they could use some buffs, honestly. Mainly to their tag-team aspect - they are strong killers, but could be so much better for the game with some tweaks to let Victor do anything other than slugging. Using him as a sentry is a bit of waste considering survivors can just crouch up and kick him, and he's not applying any pressure during this.
The reason Twins has a high kill rate is because the few people who play them play them like they're practicing for a comp tournament. They play Twins incredibly basic but since, like you said, people don't understand how to counter Twins and don't like going against sweats, those people just give up.
Also I'm just throwing it out there, Dowsey sucks at Twins. Seriously. He has terrible positioning with Charlotte, over-relies on Victor, sucks at mapwide pressure, and misses pounces frequently. He plays Twins like a clunkier hit-and-run Wraith and as a Twins main it physically hurts to watch.
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@Konnor24 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323048#Comment_2323048
No thats about right depending on what character you're on and what addons you're aiming to get. I just did a test and calculated how many BP i spent.
I did it on P3 Pyramid head Bloodweb. Focusing on POTD reach addons (eg: Burning Man painting, wax doll) & ROJ time to be performed. (tablet of oppressor, spearhead).
1st BW - 56K spent - including 1 red addon and 2 purple
2nd BW - 54K
3rd BW - 57K - including 1 red addon and 2 purple
4th BW - 61K - including 1 red addon and 3 purple
5th BW - 54K
6th BW - 56K
7th BW - 60K - including 1 red addon and 3 purple
8th BW - 56K - including 1 red addon and 2 purple
Even when getting red and purple addons, im still spending between 54K minimum and 61K maximum so im not really sure what you are spending yours on to go well above 60K each time. I spend an average of just under 57K which generally means from 1 million BP you should be getting a minimum 17-18 blood webs including variables from bad RNG.
God I wish that were me. I hate deciding to level up with 1 million points only to get nothing fast.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2323004#Comment_2323004
It’s fifty to sixty thousand a web. Sixty is a conservative estimate.
Obviously not, otherwise I'd get more than 10-12 levels on average.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2322996#Comment_2322996
How many bloodpoints do you spend per web?
A lot. Enough that I get, at the absolute maximum, 13 or 14 levels. At MAXIMUM. That's assuming I get good Entity RNG and cheap nodes.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2322963#Comment_2322963
At P3, a level is approximately 50 to 60,000. It’s closer to eighteen at most. When I calculate how many bloodpoints I need to collect all perks on a character, I assume 60,000 points a web fwiw.
As someone who has collected points in batches of one million for grinding: Eighteen is VERY, VERY generous.
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I love how the best part is, when you get to the higher levels of grinding, 1 million bloodpoints is like nothing. 12 levels at most.
Hell, even if you're starting out at level 1, 1 million points is barely enough to get anything worthwhile thanks to bloodwebs being RNG as hell.
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A mediocre effect that only turns on 5 times throughout the entire match. And if you don't go for a quick attack, you waste one of those 5 times even if you didn't actually get any value out of the Perk.
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New map in a year still disabled, Clown still completely unplayable, Nemesis is still a meme with Contamination actively hurting him.
Let's go.
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Blight. Undying is good with Devour and Dragon's Grip is a funny meme, but he's dragged down by the fact that Blood Favor is the single worst Perk for Killers in the entire game.
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I have an issue with BHVR's problems when they make them my problems.
And considering their problems are usually something along the lines of poor balancing, poor programming, or poor map design, that's often the case.
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This is actual gold.
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Faceghost. I'm like one of three people on the face of the planet who actually recognizes that leaning is a thing that exists. Most of my downs are marked stabs for that very reason.
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What do you mean, if? Have you tried running SBTFL on the new Killer? Clearly they've already gotten the rights to JoJo.
S.T.A.R.S. Platinum, am I right?
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Survivors hold W. A LOT.
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I feel like ever since Nemesis's release, Survivors have finally realized that against the majority of the cast, the best possible strategy isn't to loop, it isn't to predrop, it's to run in a straight line.
I'm seriously considering becoming a Blight main because any time I play a Killer without high mobility, the very second Survivors see or hear me coming, they just tape down W like they're practicing for internet Olympics. No matter if I'm playing a Killer with strong antiloop or not, they almost never try to actually loop anymore. They just hold down a single key because apparently that's high-octane, entertaining gameplay. And, of course, I move 15% faster than they do, so I don't catch up until 27 years later. Only time I can get them to attempt to loop is if they're cocky and overconfident or I'm playing a complete meme of a Killer like Trickster. Other than that, it's like I'm playing the long-awaited sequel to QWOP.
Really fun experience. I'm glad this is the new meta.
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I want a water-themed Killer that travels underground via phantom river currents.
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The one true gamer has arrived
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@GreyBigfoot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2300747#Comment_2300747
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you may be exaggerating a bit, it definitely has some uses.
Yes, you only get it twice, but it saves a lot of time. It's fairly accepted that bringing a medkit is usually preferable to selfcare because of the amount of times you'll realistically need to heal in 1 match. With resurgence, even a single brown medkit can give you 2 heals. Yes, We'll Make It is just as fast, but with resurgence, you get that speed without needing your teammate to actually have the perk.
And you're implying Second Wind is also a perk worth running. I think that Botany Knowledge with a medkit is what gives the perk a run for its money. Or maybe Inner Strength. But if one doesn't want to spend too many points on items/addons, Resurgence is probably preferable.
If Resurgence is worth running, then Second Wind, a Perk that does the exact same thing but better, is 100% worth running.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2300932#Comment_2300932
It’s not that they don’t listen.
There’s an overwhelming amount of noise they have to filter through because MOST of it isn’t even remotely close to being objective.
No, they DON'T listen. That is LITERALLY their most complained-about problem. More than the bugs, more than the greedy monetization, more than the lack of transparency, it's that BHVR doesn't listen to the community.
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@van9684 said:
I agree. There is a certain leveL
of entitlement and mob mentality on here that creates a hostile environment. If you question the proposed narrative that killers are underpowered and survivors are op, you will get insulted and attacked. I’m guessing there are a lot of younger people on here who do not understand what it takes to create a game or that it needs to be fun for all players to be viable.
If I were a dev, I’d not listen to any streamer or this forum. Not in the least.
Not listening to player feedback is the community's single biggest gripe with this company.
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I just don't see how Resurgence isn't a worse version of pre-existing Perks.
It's a Solidarity that activates twice per match in high-traffic areas. It's a Second Wind that doesn't finish the job. It's a self-inflicted We'll Make It that also doesn't finish the job.
I genuinely see no use for Resurgence. Claudette self caring in the corner is a better self-healer than a Resurgence user.
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@brokedownpalace said:
4-5 zombies per map is absurd
The zombies are slow walking decaying teabag practice.
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Popular opinion: No it's not.
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I'm more in disbelief they didn't fix the bug where Clown's bottles literally just do not function.
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@Edilibs said:
Nemesis is not weak at all. As a matter of fact there is no weak killer in the game! Everyone is good and "playable" as opposed to most other games with "tiers" Thus every player in one way or another can express themselves in their play. There are "weaker" killers as killers are better or worse from each other but everyone is viable. Nemesis is A right now so hes good although i agree he should/can "be a little better".
As far as the Zombie AI they have they're issues obviously but they still for the most part do their job which is to keep survivors actively moving. In my games zombies get either hits or on rarer occasions a "down" so i dunno what you wat from them. I suggest using the Zombie buff add-ons if you want slightly more consistent zombies.
Lol.
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This isn't where the bug ends either. If you don't direct hit a Survivor and they instead walk into the cloud and become intoxicated, the Hindered and visual effects will not take place right away. The time fluctuates, but sometimes the Survivor will be in a gas cloud for over a full second before they actually receive any debuffs.
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Forwards, in a straight line.
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Who would win?
A specially-engineered bioweapon supersoldier with incomprehensible regenerative capabilities and a world-ending lethality level, backed by hordes of undead minions
or
Literally just some cockhead with a knife.
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deez nuts
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Boring as hell to play as. I spent a lot of time learning how to nail Punishment of the Damned through walls, and this is just a diet Punishment attack but ten times less interesting.