MadLordJack
MadLordJack
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364982#Comment_2364982
It's not that they're 'not fun' or 'not fair'.
It's just that they're what the devs need to balance the entire game around. If they WANT gen speeds to enable 5-6 minute escapes, then they need to develop Killer movement speed & powers around short, fast chases so the Killer has a chance of hooking someone without 3/5 gens popping.
Because, if 1 hook = 3 gens. Then Killing one person via 3 hooks = 9 out of 5 generators.
Or, to put it in time: If 1 chase (find, chase, hit, chase some more, down) + hook = 120 seconds (2 minutes), then 3 hooks = 360 seconds (6 minutes).
That's 6 minutes to kill ONE person...Except 'tunneling is bad'. So that's 3 non-kill hooks in 6 minutes. And with current gen speeds, that's now 4 to 5 gens popped & the exit gates powered. And no one dead.
Hence WHY Killers camp & tunnel.
And also why the entire game needs to be balanced around gen speeds, first and foremost. Devs need to ask 'how fast can gens pop' and balance everything a Killer can do around that time limit. Because that is the time limit of a match.
First off, wow those are insanely long chases that make absolutely no sense to multiply like that because those times are only consistent with predropped pallets. Second, there is such a thing as "snowballing".
Third, 6-minute trials? Plenty of time to win. It may not be fun, but it's definitely balanced.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364849#Comment_2364849
Some of those I agree are more capable of protecting the hook, like Iri head Huntress, Hillbilly, Trapper, Myers and Ghostface.
But a lot of these would have their camping countered quite effectively by BT. They can get a hit in on the unhooked survivor, sure, but that survivor is going to get a speed boost and reset the chase from the endurance hit.
Bubba is the big problem because his chainsaw covers more ground than that, and it can down both unhooker and unhooked at the same time.
The wouldn't, actually, because they can all deny an unhook in the first place.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364849#Comment_2364849
Bubba is the only one who can simultaneously down a Healthy Survivor who successfully completed the Unhook, and eat through the BT a Survivor might have been given as well, Hook placement dependent of course.
All of the killers I listed can in the very least completely and utterly prevent an unhook from happening no matter what. Most can bulldoze right through any perks.
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More rewards aren't what's needed, it's a severe reduction in grind. The Devs are trying to have their cake and eat it too, balancing the game around new players but leaving the grind as it is to keep obsessive ones around.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/266595/are-the-hooks-a-design-failure
Hooks removes the survivor ability to play the game and killers like Leatherface can facecamp someone the whole game since they have no incentive to move away from it.
That's not a hook problem, that's a Bubba problem. On-demand instadown that can chew through multiple survivors and cancel out BT is why facecamp Bubba exists.
Hooks aren't a problem. Getting put in timeout because you were taken down isn't that big of an issue, especially since you're technically at your safest while you're on a hook, allowing you some down-time from what could otherwise be a high-octane game. What's a problem is that killers can sit on a hook for an extended period of time without any in-match punishment for it.
It's not just a Leatherface problem. Huntress, Trickster, Billy, Plague, Demogorgon, Trapper, Hag, Wraith, Oni, Myers, Twins, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Doctor, Legion, Ghostface, and any other killer with a few stacks of STBFL.
It is... Wow, there are a lot of killers who can effectively facecamp. I actually didn't think that list would be as long as it is. DbD really does have some serious issues surrounding hook mechanics.
At least Freddy got taken off the list with the BT buff.
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@Mandy said:
There is no system that blocks players from playing the game with you. That leads to all sorts of issues including players blocking people that are better than them etc - some Nurse mains would never get a match if that were a thing!
Actually, if it's implimented correctly, it doesn't. It would actually function similarly to an auto-ban system, analysing the number of blocks individuals send out and correctly weighting them against one another. The blocks don't necessarily prevent people from being natched with the person they blocked, but rather those with the most "reputable" blocks are matched together, no matter the wait time (reputable here meaning blocks sent by players that don't send blocks all that much). That's roughly how other games send griefers into their own little cesspit, instead of telling everyone to deal with it.
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A survivor indigenous to where? That term doesn't refer to a specific ethnicity, race or culture, it means anyone who lived in an area pre-colonisation.
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I've definitely been getting steamrolled by Wraiths lately, and not for good reasons. Even in the rare occasions they actually commit to chases... Actually, they don't. They give up pretty quickly because I'm not a complete pushover and take advantage of the fact that my team is doing stuff like totems and chests to tunnel the crap out of someone.
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If they're actually using an effective strategy that doesn't rely on mediocre players being their opponents (and in the case is specifically survivors, not actual genrushing), then sure.
However, if a killer brings in Knockout/Infectious Fright after dodging a bunch of SWF lobbies, then there's clearly a problem.
There are a lot of issues that this game has that simply cannot be adapted to, or suffer post-trial counterplay such as specific perks, items, killers or add-ons "countering" it. For example, Calm Spirit Vs Doctor. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the fualt of the player, although in the examples of legitimate gen rushing or solo-preying it very much so is, but no matter what they are genuine issues that need to be addressed.
Especially since, if the Devs keep bandaiding poor base-kit gameplay with perks, people will be shoehorned into using the perks that counter the likeliest things their opponents will bring and therefore be utterly demolished by anything off-meta... Oh, wait, that's already the case.
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What? Are you trying to blame survivors for you facecamping them and call them the boring ones when all you're doing is standing there griefing?
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"Luck" only effects your chances of escaping the hook, your chances of escaping a Trapper trap (not an RBT), and your chance of getting a second add-on with Ace In The Hole.
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Looping isn't dead becuase of killers, it's dead because of survivors. You can't really use the excuse of "I played against a Pyramid Head 3 days ago" to predrop every pallet under the sun, but that's what people have been doing.
Edit: Also, the only strong, actually meta perk locked behind a paywall is DS.
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Not really, it's just that the fact that he's never been fun to go against is mixing with his suddenly high pick-rate (spawned from him being an easy, strong killer).
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Pretty much, Wraith is in that same area of strength-to-effort ratio so it makes sense that people wanting to dominate others to feel good about themselves would be playing him.
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Billy, Legion, Myers, Nurse, Hag, Wraith, Freddy, Nemesis, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Demogorgon, Spirit, Trapper, Oni, and possibly Plague depending on how much the meta shifts.
Edit: That's the order of add-on passes they should take IMO.
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I wouldn't gloss over DbD's issues like that. The developers have been bitten in the arse by one of their many broken promises and it's also effecting many PC players as well.
Not that Rockstar has ever been particularly good either. Anyone else remember the KDR score in GTA:O? You know, the one that had arseholes flying around on Mk 2's and suiciding when they get close to being killed? Or the masisve broadcast when players are delivering their goods that pretends you get rewarded for blowing them up? Or how about the Arena update that was so overpriced and shark-card hungry it failed despite an awesome concept and gameplay? Or... You know, the Hiests?
And that's why I never played RD:O. Even when people told me it would be better than GTA:O.
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@Draxlore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2363857#Comment_2363857
My objective as a Killer is to kill. How is removing someone from the game in the fastest method possible not meeting that objective?
Its not griefing. The killers job is to kill. Not bake cookies or make survivors feel good about themselves.
Because it only works against bad teams and therefore isn't actually you trying to complete your objective, but you trying to get a consolation prize because you know you're not good enough to deal with experienced survivors who would otherwise be cocky enough to make mistakes but will instead just do the gens and leave because there's literally nothing else for them to do thanks entirely to you.
Personally, I don't pretend beating on bad players is fun. Because I know they're bad and I could have won without deliberately being a #########.
Edit: And that's without mentioning the grinding misery that going against so many toxic killers that are preventing 4 other people from actually playing the game for no real personal benefit besides the satisfaction that they have ruined other people's experiences.
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No it doesn't, tunneling wastes too much time and is essentially a crutch for lazy killers. Camping helps, but mostly it's purely down to a massive, unrecoverable snowball, of which tunnelling is the precise opposite.
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People forget that toxic survivors also like to grief other survivors.
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It's actually the effective size of Mother's Dwelling. If Mother's Dwelling was doubled in size, then cut in half and stacked on top of itself.
Then filled with God pallets and God windows.
Then filled with trash pallets and trash windows.
Then made extremely cramped and full of LoS blockers so that killers can't use their powers or even track survivors.
The filled with long winding corridors perfect for getting value from the W key.
Then randomly peppered with generators that are almost impossible to find without a considerable search and hooks that are spread too far apart.
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Do you want to be part of the problem that's strangling the life from the game, or do you want bloodpoints?
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It removes the slightest shred of counterplay that clown has and lets you get hits at places like long-wall jungle gyms.
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@Draxlore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361864#Comment_2361864
Nope, its to kill whoever as I see fit based on what I want to do as the killer. You, as a survivor don't get a say.
Except the game itself punishes you for that and it is often considered "griefing" because you're not actually trying to complete your objectives but instead ruin others experiences.
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Not unless Franklin's is removed.
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It's a terrible perk that basically just gives you a free kill, I don't see how it's good and/or fair from any perspective. It needs a hefty rework to make it both earned and valuable, instead of being 1k insurance.
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Communication? Yes, solo survivors are by far the weakest role in the game. Even trapper with Padded Jaws is stronger. Voice chat? Nope. Even ignoring various language barriers, it's borderline impossible to punish people for screaming toxicity in your ear under BHVR's standards.
A wheel with come contextual callouts would be perfectly adequate.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2362493#Comment_2362493
There is not so much Hag mains. So i do not think she is most hated. But Bubba is also option, true.
About 2-4 years ago, when there were less killers, you couldn't help but trip over a thread or post on your social media site of choice complaining about Hag, even from killers that thought she was absolutely crap. And you did say "in all of DbD history".
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If you're injured, jump into a locker instead of going down no matter where Charlotte is.
Also, just run around small bits of junk.
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Either Spirit or Bubba.
Edit: Or Hag.
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Any killer in the game without exception that deliberately spreads out hooks.
Unfortunately, that's the rarest killer of all. Even Nurses, Spirits and Blight's seem to feel the need to take any opportunity to camp and tunnel.
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Because it only works against survivors you could have killed anyway and it is helping to strangle the life from the game, essentially being the closest thing to griefing that a killer can do without actually griefing.
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Huntress. Desync is so bad that long-range shots and cross-maps are easier to hit than close-range hatchets.
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@xEmoGirlxAlexisx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361864#Comment_2361864
If like 3 - 4 Gens are done and all 4 Survivor are alive tunneling can really to get 1 Survivor out so u can better Protect the Last 3 Gens because if 1 Survivor is Missing u get a better Chance
There is a Different between tunneling and hard Tunneling. Hard tunneling is stupid and unfun where the Killer only focus on 1 Survivor and ignoring the other Survivors. Tunneling can be used as a Tactik i mean IT a Survivor get unhooked and the same Survivor always running into my Face why i should ignore them ? why should Survivor tell me how i should Play ? 🤷🏻♀️
Also Camping also can be a Tactik for some Killers. In a Twins Main and if 2 Survivor are left i really like to put Victor on a hook so if the other Survivor try to unhook u easy CAN find him and make some damage on him :)
Tunneling doesn't help in that situation, you're ######### either way because the survivor is just going to waste you're time. The only thing that helps there is hooking someone near the generators and patrolling the area. And to be perfectly honest, those situations don't come up all that often in most regions, and yet camping is still a huge issue, as is tunneling. Funny that.
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@treefiddyoh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2362024#Comment_2362024
So then you understand the whole point of Borrowed Time is to allow the unhooker time to unhook and get away then?
No, the point of BT is to protect someone from getting camped/tunneled. If the person with BT bodyblocks, they have to be prepared to become the target, especially if the unhooker was healthy. I'd advise running DS if that's your game plan. And it is a solid strategy... But you're not getting tunneled, you invited the killer to target you.
Personally I just tank a hit for the unhooked survivor instead of using BT. Less effective, sure, but it free's up a perk slot and I'm fine being a martyr.
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@treefiddyoh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2362012#Comment_2362012
So you admit you're not actually skilled enough to win the game without proxy camping. Good to know.
Bud, I'm a survivor main.
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Footsteps are already impossible to hear in a chase thanks to one of the dumbest decisions the Devs have ever made.
And to be perfectly honest, tracking is already ridiculously difficult and there's too many perks that mess with it as it stands. Unless they increase the number of crows, revert the chase music change, and revert the audio occlusion change, they should actually be thinking about nerfing or reworking the ones that currently exist.
Seriously, we all want survivor ques to be shorter, right? QoL fixes like this are whats needed.
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@treefiddyoh said:
Why go back to the hook? There's 2 other survivors in the game...
Because there's 2 survivors guaranteed to be at the hook, so why keep searching when you know where half your opponents are going to be?
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To be perfectly honest, Trapper isn't that enjoyable to go against in the first place, unless you're in a SWF. That's just the nature of trap-based killers.
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This sort of behaviour is exactly why BHVR hasn't done anything about it.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361905#Comment_2361905
*Laughs in hiding in the middle of the bushes as a P3 Kate against a Rancor Spirit*.
Yeah, the killer gets a notification of where everyone is and its not hard to narrow down which bubble is who. So if we're taking shite players into account, then this game is perfect and nothing needs changed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361818#Comment_2361818
why? rancor is fine.
If the survivor could do anything at all to prevent getting murdered, I might agree. As it is, they're ######### the moment the gens are done.
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You're job is to kill everyone. Not one person, not three people, everyone. Tunneling only really helps in trials you could have won anyway, and camping is only useful in very sweaty trials.
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Surge they're not touching because the don't think it would be fair if someone downs themselves via deep wound bleed-out or that one Trapper add-on (I have no clue why).
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Either hacking, or DbD's broken audio-occlusion.
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How about we remove all obsession immunities? And while we're at it, switch PWYF and Remember Me around so that they work more like STBFL.
And just nuke Rancor.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361704#Comment_2361704
I mean, it certainly gets some attention even enough to get them to stop camping sometimes, it's an incredibly useful thing to do in situations.
I like how you ignored my bit about point and beckon though :)
I didn't. You're trying to shift it's meaning.
According to you, it isn't at all survivors trying to be arseholes when they t-bag the killer, ever. Not when they're safe, not when they're at the gates, not after dropping a strong pallet, not after getting a save or blind, it's never the survivors trying to be a dick. Just like the point emote is never used, either.
If the Devs added a middle finger or an emote that made survivors call "get wrecked, #########" then t-bagging the killer would fade away into obscurity. That explains it's meaning and intent.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361701#Comment_2361701
I t-bag survivors after they heal me, and others do it to me too which is undeniable proof that t-bagging isn't just the insult you want to try and make it out to be.
and if it would be quickly forgotten about, why do survivors still use point and beckone emotes if t-bagging is the ultimate nasty big bag action that you make it out to be?
So people t-bag the killer to be nice to them, huh?
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It used to not work but they changed it a few months ago. I don't know if it was deliberate or accidental.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361613#Comment_2361613
Yea I think comparing these two things is utterly ridiculous but whatever helps you see the evil in t-bagging I guess.
It really isn't. Why do people t-bag? Its not for fun, or else people would walk around doing it when no-one is even watching.
People do whatever they can to be rude in every videogame. If there was an emote for flipping people off, t-bagging would be quickly forgotten about.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2361586#Comment_2361586
Oh no, the dreaded t-bagging that has literally 0 impact on anything, how will I cope :'(
Yeah, I don't understand why people get insulted when I flip them off or tell them to go ######### themselves.