MDRSan
MDRSan
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- MDRSan
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@YOURFRIEND said:
Everyone knows it's busted. There's been in depths posts about the math, cost-benefit analysis
The people using it don't care. They want to keep their busted toy because messing with the "other side" is more important to them than ensuring everyone has fun.
If this comes down to an argument about which side has the most control over the other side’s fun, killer mains should probably just avoid that conversation. I’ve had matches of killer where everyone could loop really well, tea-bagging after every pallet, flashlight clicking, and were being smug jerks about everything. It’s can be frustrating and annoying.
A match I had just a bit ago for example - a group were spam EMPing every pod I placed and tea-bag/flashlight clicking every chance they got. What did I do? I stopped bothering with my power, slugged all 4, and watched them bleed out. Survivors can frustrate with BM, but killers have far more control of how the game goes if they just stop caring whether they’re being dicks.
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The word filter has only ever has ironic effect for me. I never hurl abuse or offensive language at folks in game but I have had perfectly innocuous messages get mangled so it looks like I’m going off on people rather than explaining I had a challenge or whatever.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459716#Comment_3459716
I've said it so many times in other discussions, being harmed is not that big of a deal in most cases.
CoH, medkits, self-care, botany knowledge - these were all nerfed specifically because a survivor being in the harmed state is beneficial to the killer. If being harmed isn’t that dangerous, why nerf healing?
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459283#Comment_3459283
I tanked my myers MMR until I played against potato survivors who didn’t know to hop in lockers. Best way to get it. :D
I was down to my last tombstone when I finally got mine. Thankfully the last person standing in this particular group knew what I was doing and while still giving a good game, didn’t immediately run for hatch or a locker the second I downed the penultimate survivor.
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@Perpendicular said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458963#Comment_3458963
I can camp and tunnel with any killer on any map and guarantee a 2k which is a tie. This usually gets me a 3k or 4K more often than not. How can a maps be survivor sided if I can just stand still for 90% of each game and guarantee a tie?
This. What can be frustrating when playing survivor is that how the game is going to go for you is really only up to the killer. If they want to play as aggressively and efficiently as they can, at an absolute minimum they should always get a 1K and most often a 2K. Face camping and tunneling works - they’re also lame and not a particularly fun experience.
Survivors finally get a general purpose, not a lot of setup, speed bump of a perk and people act like it renders killers unable to complete a chase. No. It prolongs chases, sure - that’s the point. It does not give survivors a guaranteed, or even effortless win. You’d think kill rates dropped to zero based on these posts about Made for This.
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@ChaosWam said:
I don't think at this point anyone can convince me free haste with no balanced way to activate/deactivate it is fair. You can run a killer around the entire map with MTF alone and M1 killers can't do a thing about it.
It’s not free. You can argue about whether the price is commiserate with the gain but you can’t ignore that you need to be injured for it to be in play.
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To hear the doom and gloom about this perk, you’d think killers aren’t winning any matches after its release. It’s almost like it’s not overpowered and there are actually counters to it.
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Since made for this goes away if the survivor heals, does the 3% slowdown you suggest do the same?
There’s also the fact that a killer version of this that applies a slowdown carries no risk and all reward for the killer. At least with made for this you need to be wounded to get the effect.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455544#Comment_3455544
It's actually funny how you literally defend literal infinite loops, lmao.
This is the first time I've seen someone does that.
I wasn’t defending them, simply preempting someone coming along and ‘um actually, map x sometimes spawns with one’ing me. Apparently even this isn’t enough to hold back the tide of contrarianism.
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@tkwmm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455530#Comment_3455530
so I need to drop special item in order to use toolbox. That mean we can farm a lot of EMP by simply dropping them and get a new one. Unlimited supply EMP lol.
Although there’s already a pretty unlimited supply of EMPs, I think someone in another thread mentioned they despawn if you drop them.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455433#Comment_3455433
You don't need to use dogshit pallet with 110% movement speed at all.
If you can't understand how big it is, you just don't know anything, literally not a single thing about the game, plain and simple.
And no, deadzone or unsafe pallet also doesn't exist with 110% movement speed, anyone can run around like a headless chicken and reach the safe zone even from the corner of the map.
I’m pretty sure the math doesn’t support a survivor who is still measurably slower than a killer running from one corner of the map to the other without the killer catching up. Absent a literal, infinite loop the only reason for the killer to not catch up is they were outplayed that time around. If there is a literal, infinite loop then I have good news - none of us are robots and don’t execute everything with machine precision. Eventually, someone’s going to screw up.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3455027#Comment_3455027
No mither disable whole healing even while not in chase.
This doesn't.
You can heal, get injured for speed boost and your perk is active as normal. Your cost is paid by killer.
This perk’s speed boost is only active when the survivor is injured so if they heal up they no longer have the effect. If the complaint is that a survivor is going to run around with added speed for a majority of the match then it’s functionally equivalent. If they heal up, there’s no effect in play that could be argued is overpowered.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454954#Comment_3454954
It's fun watching people perform gymnastics to try and pretend like made for this is either weak(?) or has some sort of cost. Seems like a good way to throw out your back or disjoint something.
I don’t think it’s weak, I think it’s Ok. If it were just the endurance it would be weak - why would anyone use that perk?
Are you suggesting no mither has no cost?
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The endurance is a nice bonus, but the triggering criteria is highly situational. If you’re facing the full 10 seconds as killer, I suggest you hit the survivor standing directly beside the one that was just healing them - no endurance there. Or just deal with the fact that you aren’t downing the person with endurance for the next 10 seconds. The horror. Having a free health state for 10 seconds max in highly situational circumstances is really not that big of a deal.
The haste is a nice little boost but it costs being 1 hit away from being downed and they’re still not faster than the killer. There’s a reason everyone doesn’t run no mither. Stacking with hope is irrelevant until exit gates are powered and it’s still not like it teleports you to the inside of a gate. If a player builds around a set of circumstances then it makes sense that when those circumstances occur they are at an advantage. Otherwise, what’s the point of perks?
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
Shock. Horror. The Audacity. A survivor using the tool available to them to not allow a killer to teleport directly to them.
Will it make killers more comfortable if we call it an EMP strategy? You know, kinda like the slugging strategy, or the tunnelling strategy or the face camping strategy that survivors get told to just suck it up and go next?
So are you suggesting that survivors actually DO need to shut up about slugging, tunneling, and face camping? Is that your point? I personally don’t think they’re very fun, but if you insist I guess I could try when I play killer.
EMPs do need adjustment in my experience so far. As a survivor I never feel like I might not have pretty immediate access to another one so I never put any thought into using them if I happen to be carrying one. I mean, if they’re spitting out of printers like a malfunctioning vending machine pelting you with Doritos and I can use them while moving there’s only 1 reason not to - possibly alerting the killer to your location. There was a game earlier where I worked on a gen right under a pod and didn’t bother EMPing it until I saw it activate. Still had plenty of time to finish the gen since the EMP goes off faster than slipstream can be applied and a teleport triggered.
Singularity feels fun to play but EMPs do feel overtuned. Survivors need a repeatable but realistically limited way to counter infection and pods. They got the repeatable part, but with printers as they are now they aren’t realistically limited.
They could do something like add increasing print times per printer or add a debuff after using one to where interacting with a printer for a period of time after using one fries the printer.
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He’s quickly becoming one of my favorites to play when I play killer - though if a few matches as survivor I played earlier are any indication, folks need to use their bio pods more. I faced a couple killers who literally were just running him like an M1 and didn’t place any.
Also, in case anyone doesn’t realize - you can shoot at a pod to remove it. You can replenish your available supply so you aren’t randomly replacing ones you didn’t want to remove or place another one right back if it was disabled by an EMP.
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Maybe we were in the same match! I too had an annoying 30 minute match that came down to 3 gens - super annoying right? I mean, if those survivors would just stop EMPing all my pods, things would go much more quickly.
Oh wait - you meant the killer should abandon their objective or be neutered when it’s down to 3 gens, not the survivors? I’m sorry, you lost me.
Joking aside, I usually let remaining survivors go if it comes down to a particularly tricky 3 gen setup. I could probably win a battle of attrition but it would take forever and isn’t fun for anyone. The one exception is if a player got cocky, clicky, and t-baggy earlier in the match - then I’ll patrol till hell freezes over or the annoying one is dead.
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Mathing out how strong a perk can be if a bot is behind the controls executing everything perfectly with inhumanly fast and accurate mid-chase decision making might give a signal on how strong a perk might be but without considering how reality plays out it doesn’t prove much.
It’s also important to remember - how fast a survivor can be in a 3-4 second window isn’t how fast they are in a majority of the match. If they’ve prepared for the circumstance they find themselves in during a chase then they’re meant to escape THAT chase. If not, what good are the perks?
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My basement biopod will keep my chest safe while Bubba is away.
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I think if they reduced the horizontal range a bit and increased the time it takes to trigger one to be just longer than it takes a bio pod to go through infecting and triggering a teleport that would help things (at least from my experience in games this evening).
A survivor noticing I’m controlling a bio pod that’s looking at them should feel prompted to try and break line of sight or move … anywhere. Right now I’ve had survivors get up from a gen, walk closer to the bio pod, fire their EMP, and then stroll back to the gen. It was kind of funny the first few times, less so now.
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Those saying ‘Just do gens to punish the killer’ aren’t wrong but need to finish the sentence. It should read ‘Just do gens to punish the killer and the person on hook’. The person on hook in solo q isn’t part of a team - your victory is not their victory when they’re left out hanging like that. Their goal isn’t (usually) to aggravate the killer, it’s to escape.
If you show them you don’t care about them escaping by not going for a rescue because your afraid of a hook trade, why should they care about you escaping and serve as a distraction? They shouldn’t.
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He can be pretty oppressive when playing to his strengths and with certain perk combos. Expanding his terror radius you can get periodic NOEDs throughout the match with starstruck. He can traverse large parts of the map quickly and can inflict a slowdown effect that reveals your location if you try and avoid or remove it. His dash has a built in attack mechanic if it lands which a nurse blink doesn’t.
He’s a pretty powerful killer. I tend to see fewer DCs when I’m in a match with a Wesker than Nurse, but definitely more than any of the other killers. I don’t DC but have been in a few matches where I’ve just given up after he basically pinballed between survivors, farming us for bp.
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What if survivors suffered an inefficiency debuff for a short time after unhooking that slows gen speed by a small but not negligible amount? That would encourage keeping as many survivors in the recently unhooked state as possible rather than just 1 and further incentivize hooking rather than slugging.
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Some things that would be interesting would be fake gens, or proximity activated jump scares that notify Freddy of location (thinking roasted pig from nightmare on elm st. 3 if I remember right), the ability to stretch corridors from the survivor’s perspective as they’re running down them, etc.
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To me Wesker doesn’t fit because of his look. If they had went with his mutated, uroboros form he would have felt more thematically appropriate. It would be like if they added Patrick Bateman in his business suit. Like, yeah - he’s a serial killer from a horror film but thematically at least put him in his blood spatter poncho. (Though I would like to see his hilarious perk names - Walking on Sunshine comes to mind)
My only issue with Trickster is the sound his bat makes. It sounds more like a wiffle ball bat than something that would actually do some damage.
Some random knight killer would be met with my best nea-entity ‘meh’.
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I don’t think something being in the game a long time or how long the community has pointed something out is a reason to complain about a change when they make it. I mean, what’s the ask here? They should never respond to concerns about photosensitivity issues with flashlight clicking because thus far they haven’t?
A complaint that they have issues for photosensitive people in the game is rooted in an actual issue. A complaint that they’re fixing it and explaining why they’re fixing it feels like manufactured outrage. I’m glad they’re taking action even though some would try and create a lose-lose situation for them.
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@tippy2k2 said:
It's the same kind of issue of killers v survivors when it comes to blood points earned in game
As a killer, you are naturally going to always get Brutality, Sacrifice, Deviousness, and Hunting as that is all gotten through regular gameplay
As a survivor though, what you get is usually dictated by reacting instead of acting. You're always reacting to what the killer does and if the killer isn't giving you what you need, you need to force it
Unfortunately too many survivors are just incredibly impatient with their challenges and force it no matter the cost to the game. Short of making the challenges just super boring (basically making them just "do gens" challenges), I don't really know how you'd fix it
I mean, anything other than doing gens as quickly as robotically possible is frequently termed ‘throwing’ on these forums so they might as well have them all be gen challenges.
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I do it when I play Cenobite, but not because it actually spawns on top of them. Presumably the person is going to run and by the time my POV has switched to the chain and I’ve fired the chain off they can already have made enough distance to be able to break line of sight if I don’t initiate the spawn close to their previous position. If they stand still then, yeah - I don’t really have to aim but that’s how it would work no matter how far away I placed it.
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So for situations where your team has to leave you on hook with a camping killer the player becomes a consumable that allows x seconds of free gen time? I’m sure hanging there counting the stitches on Bubba’s mask is riveting gameplay.
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Some gameplay elements aren’t meant to have a hard, applicable to every circumstance counter - they’re just game mechanics that are meant to be part of the game.
Take a killer chasing a survivor. The survivor isn’t meant to have a way to escape the killer 100% of the time. Infinites are removed when discovered, pallet counts are lowered when going live from PTB feedback, 2nd chance perks are nerfed, etc. This doesn’t mean they can never escape the killer and certainly doesn’t mean a survivor shouldn’t have tools to prolong a chase.
In this case BHVR is signaling that the hook mechanic is meant to be used as the preferred way to remove an opponent from the game. You can still slug if you want - getting up isn’t instant and the bleed out timer is cumulative. Leaving a survivor on the ground after you down them becomes more about applying pressure due to players being temporarily removed from contributing to objectives than it is getting a 2-4 minute win. If a survivor brings unbreakable that time is lowered, but they’ve also spent a perk slot on that ability.
Pallet rescues are a mechanic that isn’t meant to be circumvented 100% of the time. If they could be, why have them in game. Break the pallet after they drop or realize you’re choosing to risk it when you down a survivor right next to a pallet.
If hook deadzones are the problem, then make hooks not despawn after sacrifice, add spawn points, or be more mindful of where you down people. For sabotage, that’s a mechanic that is either limited by charges or a cooldown and isn’t permanent. Why even have these limitations if killers could just avoid the mechanic altogether? If a sabotage action makes it hard or impossible to get a survivor to a functional hook without wiggling free then that’s kind of the point.
Finally, try and put yourself in the other side’s shoes. How much fun do you think it is being helpless on the ground for an extended period of time? How effective do you think any measure that doesn’t put a hard cap on how much floor time someone has to spend will be?
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Can I trouble you for an unhook? Can I trouble you to do a gen? Can I trouble you for a body block as the killer chases me to the exit?
Common solo queue requests.
I would love to do a gen. Can you drag it over to my hook? 😛
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@sulaiman said:
Well, it all depends. Did you bring kindred? Because i didnt, and thus, i understand that situations like that might happen, especially if all survivors are far away, so every one things someone else has to be closer.
If i am about to finish a gen, and i am far away, and i have no idea if someone is already at your hook (and just hasnt unhooked you because of a camping killer, for instance) then the outcome might be that you go to second hook stage. You want to be spiteful about that? Be it, i play killer too, and people like you give me easy games.
I play killer too. When I see someone left on hook for almost 2 full cycles and I know there are survivors that weren’t being pressured by me and could have saved them I go extra hard to make sure no one but that survivor gets out.
If you’re about to finish a gen then you have plenty of time to finish and still get to me in time. If you just started a gen then you don’t, but that really isn’t ‘about to finish’ is it?
Let me ask - on death hook, exactly how smart is it of me to do anything that would put me in harms way? You seem to suggest I should help a team that can’t be bothered to help me. That’s not going to happen.
I’m also not sure how you can say people like me give you easy games when the problem is my team is acting like they’d like to 3 player the match. Yes, I’m sure games where 1 player is out of commission for a long time is easy. Doesn’t have anything to do with me.
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That is one thing I’ve learned, playing like a jerk is a much smoother path to victory. Once I stop trying to spread out the hook counts, stop immediately hooking folks I down, stop letting hook trades happen, stop trying to make everyone have fun, etc. my killer games are much more consistently victories.
I don’t do it often since I do feel a bit jerkish but sometimes I have some bad matches with particularly smug survivors. I demand vengeance and don’t care who it comes from. (So long as it’s not bunny Feng. I could never be that mad at a bunny Feng)
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If no one’s coming to unhook me and I’ve been hanging long enough that I’m about to blow into 2nd stage, there’s at least a tiny chance I can get off the hook so I’m going to take it. I mean, I wasn’t needed through a whole hook stage - what, now I am?
I don’t think the mechanic should be changed. It would do nothing to fix what the real issue is and that’s suddenly being down a player for reasons outside normal gameplay. A player that would have previously made the decision to hurry things along isn’t suddenly going to re-engage in a particular match just because escape attempts are removed. They’ll stand still, run up to the killer, etc.
Also suicide suggests they hooked themselves which isn’t possible. (In my best Maine accent) Sometimes, dead is better.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I do, although in a couple of recent games that same survivor I helped teamed with the killer to get me towards the end of the match, so that sours it a fair bit.
Fortunately, I will still continue to save others, as well as continue to waste part of my play time writing up dissertations to send to BHVR for colluding with killers that may well end up unresolved for several months. :D
I don’t carry it over to following games or anything, and never directly help the killer. I just stop being altruistic in any way and worry about myself. After all, my ‘team mates’ that round certainly can’t be relied on to help out with my safety.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204845#Comment_3204845
There are many scenarios where a killer leaves a survivor slugged on the ground, because they literally can't get the survivor on a hook. If the killer is standing over a survivor that is in the dying state, give them an extra button to teleport the survivor on a hook.
Couldn’t this also be resolved by increasing hook coverage and making hooks not break when used to sacrifice? That seems like it would solve the same issue while mostly keeping existing mechanics.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
A complete rework? Absolutely not. I love current Wraith and would hate for his appearance to change. A slight tweak like we got with Trapper, Doctor, Clown, Nurse, etc. would be fine.
Noooo, not like clown. Having to see the facial features your camera’s clipping through on one killer is quite enough thank you. This isn’t an Ubisoft title.
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What specific ability do you think is missing from all killers’ base kits? They aren’t giving survivors free perks, if anything they’re identifying abilities that should have been part of their kit in the first place. Them being similar or identical to perks that previously existed is irrelevant to a discussion on what abilities should or should not be granted.
It’s like a band aid vs stitches. I wouldn’t call stitches a free band aid.
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I’m thinking Victor can either stand guard on the body, freezing the mend timer or (and this one would be delightful) let him drag the body by a leg and toss them onto a hook himself.
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@Murgleïs said:
So you are throwing because you got caught by the killer. Interesting.
No, the killer’s job is to hook me. Is it not part of your team’s job to help you? If not, what issue do you have with the things I said - none of those things are my job after all, right? I don’t mind being hooked - I do mind being left on hook long enough that I blow past 1st hook state while I watch teammates making no effort to get to me.
If you want to call it throwing, you’re welcome to. You’re wrong though, since throwing is purposefully losing and I’m pretty sure prioritizing my survival over everyone else isn’t a loss.
I will say it’s interesting how you don’t think letting a teammate go to death hook on first hook isn’t throwing though. It’s almost like selfish players can’t play as selfishly if their team is just going to do it right back to them and that bothers some players.
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@ByeByeQ said:
We need a slugging rework...
But not this slugging rework. Killers will have to tunnel to win, everything else will just be a throw.
A throw is intentionally losing a match, not merely playing in a way that isn’t the most strategically efficient. No one should claim they can’t win a match unless they can leave their opponents on the ground for longer than 20-30 seconds. Will they be able to win as fast? Probably not. Is it worth it to give survivors a tool to not have their match be 90% browsing the internet in exchange for killers having to actually use the hook mechanic that’s been core to the game since launch? I think yes.
If everyone brings unbreakable or no mother today, does that mean survivors just steamroll the killer? Of course not.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204243#Comment_3204243
If you've played games where you need quick reaction times you'd know its easy to do it. Why do you think it's still one of the most picked perks?
Watch the killer for any cues that they’re about to strike while watching where you’re going, time the ability so the animation finishes when you need it to, and compensate for any lag within a .5 second window? That’s easy?
Lots of offline games need quick (< 1 second) reaction times - there aren’t many online games that do without something like aim assist baked in.
Perk popularity isn’t guaranteed to be correlated to perk strength. Self Care is more used than Dead Hard and I wouldn’t consider it overpowered.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204219#Comment_3204219
I wouldn't say either dead hard or hyperfocus are hard to pull off. Hyperfocus is just reverse og ruin. Why behavior thinks thats okay who knows. New dead hard basically turns off killers ability to lunge if you have reaction time and now its just third health state the perk
I think if they nerfed Dead Hard to require a .01 second reaction time and protected for half that long people would still call it a 3rd health state and act like it’s always available and effortless to pull off.
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Because survivors don’t have weapons or base kit powers that can kill the killer and end the game in victory.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202804#Comment_3202804
Remember dead hard…
Pepperidge Farm Remembers …
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Are they doing some sort of weird half-circle path as they walk? I had a match once where the Meyers was doing that and seemed to kind of randomly change direction until I did a couple of test approaches which seemed to proximity activate him. It didn’t last long in a chase before he kind of meandered off, presumably due to some other trigger. It was weird - not as precise as I would imagine a bot would be but not super random either. Looking back I still have no idea if it was a person.
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Granted I’m relatively new so maybe I haven’t figured out the zen of killer yet but am I the only player that routinely hooks (or at least picks up) survivors within 20 seconds of downing them?
I could see the dying on pallet issue, but that’s kind of situational right?
So far as hook dead zones, I would imagine that’s one of the things that can be identified on the PTB.
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Because without that change hooks would be entirely pointless. If downing all survivors triggers an auto-sacrifice then the prevailing strat would be to just slug everyone since it’s the lowest effort/highest reward given the new, additional win condition added to killers. That would be a pretty bad survivor experience, at least for the large population in solo queue.
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If the auto-mori triggers on downing the last survivor I don’t think slugging 4 survivors in 45 seconds is the situation to worry about. Hooking 2 survivors and trying to slug the 2 remaining as quickly as possible seems the more likely response. Initial uninformed hot take is this feels like a bit of a buff to killer.
On the other hand, slugging is my go to tool when facing a coordinated flashlight/pallet/head-on saving squad so I guess I’ll just go farm some wall breaking bps those matches so they’re not a total wash. Kind of a shame - those matches I usually let someone wiggle free, revive everyone, and we proceed to meme it up the rest of the game.
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Isn’t there an addon that starts everyone off as infected? I remember a match where everyone started infected and it seemed to progress fairly quickly. It wasn’t really a big deal since I just went for a first aid spray rather than a gen first off but if I got in chase early I probably would have reached 100% before having a chance to open or use a spray.