Lucama
Lucama
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028462#Comment_1028462
I doubt survivors choose the killer's patrol route.
Choose? No, but they can play around it. And depending on the map, killer, and/or if the killer gets into a chase, the patrol path can be long enough to get the better part of a generator done, if not all of it.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028436#Comment_1028436
Survivors aren't the ones with power over where gens are done. That wasn't an opinion piece. Any other questions?
Wait you actually think that? Maybe when it's down to 2 gens to complete, but early game survivors can absolutely set themselves up to avoid 3 gen situations.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028418#Comment_1028418
Bugs aren't nerfs. Thanks for helping me make a string.
No, but it's a growing list of killer issues that aren't addressed or even acknowledged.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028398#Comment_1028398
You're looking at the percents wrong. Any experienced dbd player knows 3 gens is less than 33% of the survivor objective while 1 kill is over 50% of the killer objective. It's not linear, and I'm starting to notice you don't know much about dbd. The first thing you must grasp is objectives are not linear.
I said 2 gens, and while I agree that the game can get harder the fewer gens survivors have to complete due to a shrinking play area, numerically the percentage is accurate and it's not always the case if survivors don't set up 4/3 gen situations and on some maps 3 genning is basically not a thing. And that's also why I never said anything about a kill, I said every survivor starts the game as if they'd been hooked once, which while reducing the overall number of hooks the killer has to do still leaves it at 2 per survivor to get a kill.
As for what you've "noticed", maybe you're just blinded by your own opinions?
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028205#Comment_1028205
Yes I remember that long string of survivor buffs and killer nerfs too /s
Nurse, Spirit, Legion (for some reason), Ruin.
There's also the persistent bugs and the new ones with this patch: Audio, flash lights don't give any indication of blinding now, Hag's lunge after teleport is borked, Freddy now has a delay after setting snares, and personally I've felt like Doc's lunge is way shorter than it should be but might just be me.
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I wonder what the response from survivors would be if there was a situation in the game where every survivor goes straight into struggle when hooked, and the devs said "just don't not having the first hook, focus on not getting hooked twice".
And for the record, that's less % of the Killer's objective than 2 generators are for the survivor's objective.
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@DBDIT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1024167#Comment_1024167
Oh stfu, as if killers don't complain and yes he IS op now. No ability to vault, throw down a pallet or use in any kind of perk when your in a chase with someone that can zap your brain away is the definition of op. Let me guess - "jUsT uSe cAlM sPiRiT" - because it makes sense to run a useless perk just because you MIGHT run into him. So many people run him now as opposed to before so hmm, I wonder what changed🤔. The devs went overboard with his buff whether you care to admit that or not doesn't concern me.
There's a 1s delay between his zap and your inability to interact, you can literally just drop the pallet, and if you vaulted as he zaps you it won't interrupt it.
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I do have to say, one of the best pieces of advice I can give is just play and learn. Your issues with Doc and Clown show a certain lack of understanding of the game, and that's not meant as an insult or me calling you bad, just new. And it's okay to be new. So the ideas others have shared here, and then just playing and learning the game.
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The issue in this thread is people talking past each other.
One side is saying "it's frustrating playing as killer, and the gameplay doesn't feel rewarding".
The other side is saying "you need to just improve your gameplay".
The first side, seeing that their complaints are being ignored feels like they're not being taken seriously in the discussion and insults people. Now neither side is really willing to have a reasonable discussion.
Now, I agree, killer gameplay is frustrating and way too difficult to feel rewarding for what you achieve. On the other hand, I also agree that people can improve their gameplay. I think almost everyone can improve their gameplay, no one is perfect. What does need to be addressed though is the disparity of gameplay experience as survivor vs killer. Because of how the game is right now, with the emphasis on survivors being able to loop around consistently strong tiles and maps so large that gens can be done in the time it takes killers to cross, Killer is not an enjoyable gameplay experience, you're constantly under pressure to do more things at once with the limited time you're given. Conversely survivor is a rather relaxed experience where you can rely on a teammate to loop a killer for at least 30s, which if all three survivors are working on a gen amounts to more than a gen's worth of progression.
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Don't hold your breath, it doesn't affect survivor enjoyment.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022759#Comment_1022759
It's not bad decision making. They know what they're doing. They have the perks to protect them and are smartly using them to their advantage. Stop playing their game. Punish them with a time out on the floor to think about what they've done.
So you admit that BT isn't being used as an anti-camp perk and is instead being used to cover up saves that should otherwise result in two hooks for the killer.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022740#Comment_1022740
Wake up. It's not the easy kill. Your argument is exactly why you shouldn't be doing it. If they hook bomb, slug them. Now you have even more pressure. Wait a minute, then pick up and hook them.
Okay, so why should I as a killer be punished for bad decision making on the side of the survivor? Why not spend an extra 10s on a gen for me to walk away instead of running to unhook right as I turn around?
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022723#Comment_1022723
You're missing the point. Just don't go after the unhooked person and you will *never* deal with DS. Ever. When you hook someone, go after someone else immediately. The hooked person can't do a gen, the one going for the unhook isn't doing a gen, and the one you're now chasing isn't doing a gen.
Stop wasting time camping and going after freshly unhooked people just to complain about gen times. You're the one not pushing the others off the gens.
Why should I ignore the easy kill when survivors literally hookbomb me?
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022701#Comment_1022701
DS was heavily nerfed. It used to work on all 4 survivors every time they were picked up until they hit it. Now, it only procs if the killer is playing like a jerk.
BT only exists to allow saves for when the killer is camping. Stop camping and it will be a useless perk. It's exceptionally rare for me to get hit with DS or to see someone get the deep wound from BT.
Play better. In my games, every survivor with those perks might as well only have two perks all game.
DS is a minute of "don't touch me bro" that can be gamed with lockers, and is only needed on one surv to make it look like all 4 could have it. And apologies for camping for all of 4s as a surv comes barreling in with BT for the save, but sure it's "anti-camp". And still, it's about use rate.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022345#Comment_1022345
Two of those perks were nerfed already and a third was nerfed indirectly by dedicated servers.
DS wasn't nerfed, BT was nerfed from god mode to merely S tier, still used in more than 80% of loadouts I'd imagine.
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@PoisonN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022611#Comment_1022611
Lmaaoooo I'm sorry 💔
all good dude
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@PoisonN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022345#Comment_1022345
How ironic. Then why every survivor in the red rank run this build with "ruined" and "nerfed" perks?
I was mocking the notion that Ruin was nerfed because it was run in a majority of games. As you say, these perks see 80%+ play rate but remain untouched.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
I think people are allowed to complain about tunneling. Killers complain about gens and hatch frequently.
Complaining about game balance =/= complaining about someone playing a certain way. I don't complain if people flash/pallet save, don't complain about using DS, don't complain about someone doing gens. I will complain on the forums where devs can see that their game is badly balanced/designed.
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I would but she makes me motion sick.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022126#Comment_1022126
So Survivor nerfs and Killer buffs are "necessary to actually make the game fun" but Killer nerfs aren't every necessary? I played old Stun on teleport Hag back in the day. Ruin was strong back then as well. Now that we have had about 2 years or solid Survivor nerfs... maybe some stuff that was strong back when Survivors were truly OP... are now OP themselves?
Also forgot L4D shirt changes, faster pick up animation for Killers, faster pallet break speed, moon offerings removed, insta heals nerfed, medkits altered, SC nerfs...
Killers have received a massive net buff over the years and Survivors a net nerf over the years. Anyone who ignores this is being extremely bias. Both sides require balancing. They always will. And that comes with BOTH nerfs and buffs.
Yes survivor nerfs and killer buffs were needed. You know why? Because of where the game started. That's the core of it. Consider the following, you have two men, one man has 1 million dollars, one man has 2 thousand dollars. You take 1 thousand from each man. Yes they both had the same amount of money taken from them, but the impact on their overall wealth is drastically different.
That's survivor and killer. Look at 3 years ago, what the state of the game was back then and tell me any number of things that were nerfed or removed from that time were unjustified. Meanwhile Killers have been at best power neutral to that time, and recently it's been power negative.
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@PapiQuentin_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022345#Comment_1022345
Hell yeah let's nerf BT, an anti tunnel perk.
Hell yeah let's nerf DH, a perk that allows survivors to take more risk
Hell yeah let's nerf Adrenaline even though it only proves after the last gen is done, meanwhile the survivor had to manage with 3 perks at that point.
Hell yeah, let's nerf ruin, a perk that lets killers actually have an early game.
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@micha_beck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021745#Comment_1021745
Also, don't blame this on Survivors not being able to get the skill checks.
No one complained. Ruin was annoying, but manageable.
You can blame it on killers for using the perk in 80% of games for lack of ideas. Hence the devs had to nerf it. They will nerf all powers that are used all the time.
Just like they nerfed DS, oh
Just like they nerfed BT, oh
Just like they nerfed DH, oh
Just like they nerfed Adrenaline, oh
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@Siren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021837#Comment_1021837
False, I've played against it at red ranks and it's still strong. Gens just don't get done if you actually play killer properly. Gens regress at 2 TIMES the normal speed with tier 3. You just want to complain.
Ah yes, double regression rate, which is why kicking gens was always so strong. Wait, what's that, base regression is 1/4 of vanilla survivor repair speed?
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@Siren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1021326#Comment_1021326
So your first point. I don't think they worded the doctor changes correctly tbh. These changes were definitely made in the interest of killer players, not survivor. He's much, MUCH stronger now, so to continue being upset over some writing seems a bit silly at this point. I still stand by the point of ruin was such a crutch to most players and they still need to just learn how to play without it. Also, my point of the fact that ruin is still a strong perk, still stands.
Second point, if they wouldn't have changed the perk now, they would've changed it later, after gen speed had been looked at, and most likely people still would have been in an uproar over it. Was a lose lose for them really.
Why would people be in an uproar when the issue that Ruin was seen as a temporary fix to, insane gen speeds, were fixed in the same update as a Ruin nerf? I'm sure some people would be upset, no doubt, but without the issue of killers being unable to even get a foot in the game before 3 gens pop far fewer would see this an an ill-conceived change.
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"Gen rush" as in "survs are rushing gens" kinda exists, but that's literally just when a 4 man toolbox squad with BNP loads in.
"Gen rush" as in "gens are too damn quick" totally exists.
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@TommyFredo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1020539#Comment_1020539
3-4 minutes? That's nearly impossible. Each gen is a minute and a half, and that's if you don't stop for one second to do any other task. 6-7 minutes is more realistic if you have a good team against a booty killer.
Actually, absolutely possible. Generic scenario:
Killer takes about 20s to find one survivor, chases and downs in about 40s which is a pretty quick down, another 10-15s to pick them up, carry them to hook and hook them. 10s later 3 generators are done.
And that's assuming a fairly quick down. A decent looper can keep the killer in chase for 1m. Of course, you can break the chase but that only works if you know where another survivor is. 80s is really not a lot of time, and that's 3 people doing 3 separate gens at the same time.
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Aight, let's break it down:
"Ruin is why people are mad". No, ruin is just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. The game has for a while now been getting changes that ignore the killer experience and focus the survivor experience. Ruin was changed because it feels bad for the survivors to go up against, Doctor was changed because he feels bad for survivors to go up against, Spirit, Nurse, Legion, etc. The last two major survivor changes were Insta-heals and BL, insta-heals were the equivalent of if Iri huntress heads were hitscan and BL was overtuned compared to the other exhaustion perks, and created insane/infinite loops on some maps. These were well overdue balance changes.
In the last dev notes even when they tried to talk to the killer experience about Ruin, they missed the mark. Ruin isn't there because "boo hoo muh emblems", you still got silver emblem with Ruin, Ruin was there because it bought that precious few extra seconds in the early game to allow you to set yourself up in the game, to get a down without hearing Ping Ping Ping and seeing that 5 drop to a 2. When talking about Doctor, one of the weakest killers in the game before his rework, the focus was on how it felt for Survivors to go up against him, no mention for the Killer experience of playing Doctor, which was awful.
"They needed to remove Ruin to take a look at gens". No they didn't. Let's not kid ourselves, no they didn't. They might claim that's what it was, but in reality they could pull data for ruin-less games from so many sources, there's been many showcases of how stupid gen speeds are, it's evident to anyone with functioning eyes and a brain that some of the maps are simply too big to be effectively traversed by anyone but Billy, Wraith and maybe Freddy, I would say nurse but without addons she's barely faster than a 115% killer. If they were gonna ship a major change to the only perks available to stem the bleeding that is the insane gen speeds in the early game, the worst idea was to ship it raw with how the game is in its current state.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Playing well counters playing well.
Gen rush isn't just down to playing well though, it's a product of insanely quick gen times. Of course a survivor is gonna do the objective if they're not being pressured, people aren't begrudging that, but the issue is the objectives themselves are too quick to give killers a chance to do anything.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/122473/you-know-what-counters-gen-rushing
Are you saying that you weren't playing optimally as killer because you felt that killer was easy enough without using every advantage?
So either, Killer was overpowered before and you were playing nice or tunneling isn't a viable strategy, which is it?
Who is it that cries every time a killer camps slugs or tunnels? As long as you're cool with it, killers are just gonna play for the win, no consideration of survivors enjoying the game. And then survs will cry about it and it'll be nerfed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Technically ruin wasn’t part of the base-game experience. So not really dumbing down an originally complex topic, more so reverting to a prior state.
Ruin itself (gen slowdown), was also poorly described, and its RNG factor could make it god-like or baby’s first gen, on top of it being a potential insta-cleanse.
It was an inconsistent mess of a perk that was also touted as the Best Perk.
This is simply cleanup.
Unless you want to explain to me how having an RNG dependent perk that doesn’t describe part of its core slowdown feature (what happens on good failure technically) is a healthy model for gameplay.
The perk is now consistent. And I do think there’s always room for perks that give your opponents a challenge or shake things up, just NEVER attach it to RNG.
Corrupt Intervention is a good example on how gen-slowdown can be approached.
Everyone agreed Ruin was an inconsistent mess, but as it stands right now it was the only means killers had of ensuring their first chase doesn't put them on a 3 gen handicap.
New ruin is consistent, yes, but it's also bad. In its current state it's not worth of being a Hex perk, and honestly I don't think it's worth of a perk slot even if it wasn't tied to a totem. Baseline regression is laughable, doubling it does not make it any better. There need to be two gens that had been left mid-repair, and the killer needs to somehow keep pressure on 2 survivors, for the perk to even amount to half the progress that the other two survivors are making. In the early game it at best regresses a 10% gen of the unlucky surv you found first, meanwhile the other three are free to pump out their gens.
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@altruistic said:
It is very humorous to me reading all these tears threads.
How heavily reliant so many were on one perk, and it’s gets a change and the world is burning.
There’s an old saying, “don’t put all your eggs into one basket.”
Interesting how most say a perk that would last them the first 30 seconds of every game changes, and suddenly playing Killer is near impossible.
Have you considered that maybe Ruin is just the last straw for some? That it's another in a long line of changes intended to appease one side of the playerbase while completely ignoring what the game is like for the rest? People are just getting tired of being ignored. And I know you'll probably bring up instaheals and BL, so just gonna nip that in he bud.
Instas were a long overdue change that were completely imbalanced. BL was changed because it broke the exhaustion perk formula and allowed the creation of god loops, and even infinite loops. Old BL was as if Sprint Burst made a survivor's running speed always 105%, or if Lithe made every vault a fast vault.
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@Evra said:
If NoEd gets removed, Adrenaline needs to get removed as well. They both have the same activation condition. The differences being: NoEd can be permanently cleansed. NoED can be cleansed before it ever activates, making it a useless perk slot. Adrenaline activates under the same conditions as NoED, but still activates even if already exhausted. Heals survivors a full health state, wakes them up if asleep, boosts speed greatly. Cannot be cleansed by destroying a totem.
If you see the killer has NoED, go break the totem. If you suspect the killer is running NoED, break all the totems on the map. He loses a perk for the rest of the game.
With all the second chance perks survivors have, I don't understand why you are complaining about NoED. Adrenaline, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, the list goes on.
Don't forget it's also a deliverence without the need to unhook someone, and that doesn't leave you broken.
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@Zanely89 said:
Whoever said the new ruin is useless and now have shorter games are wrong. Haven't you see all the "R1 killer main" suddenly come out of the woodland claiming that they never needed ruin to consistently getting 4k every game?
And of course they're all totally long time Killer players who consistently sit at rank 1, no one would ever lie on the internet!
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@Warlock_2020 said:
@Lucama I face good survivors all the time. I don't just drop chases constantly, but I don't stick to every chase like a hound dog either. If I see more benefit to pressuring gens and trying to catch a survivor out of position, near a bad loop, then I do that. Therefore, keeping them off the gens works well. I don't waste time just to get one down and lose 3 gens. That is not beneficial to any killer in my book.
I have had 1 survivor escape all night, and the funny part is he was the only non red/purple rank survivor I faced. I've had multiple swfs and some really good groups, but I pick my fights well. This was a good night, admittedly. Tomorrow might be filled with me getting lots of hooks and seeing 2 escape, but that is how it goes. Ruin has nothing to do with either set of matches. How I play and the mistakes I either make or capitalize on do.
So you play as any decent killer would. Ruin is just win more, if the survivors are letting you put enough pressure out there then it works, good survivors will make that pointless.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
I ran ruin on Trapper, New Doc, Pig and Shape today. I noticed survivors ignoring it more so than usual. My play style is very aggressive in gen protection, so it worked very well for me. I'm more than willing to peel off of a chase to nowhere in order to keep pushing people off gens. Now, I don't have to take the time to kick them when I chase them off. My matches snowballed much faster due to that.
My play style is now how others use it though. I played a bit of survivor tonight and saw many killers trying to rely on ruin while camping/tunneling a survivor down. Ruin did nothing for them because survivors sat on gens. I ran a killer for three gens in an area of the map where there were no gens. That was insane to me. Why chase me in a dead zone when you are losing gens? He expected ruin to do his work and it won't do it anymore.
Is that good or bad? I don't know. I do know that killers will have to be smarter in order to make it work for them.
Honestly, I broke my reliance on Ruin almost a year ago. I got tired of it going bye-bye in 2 minutes and then I'm down to 3 perks for the game. If I ran BW, I'm down to 2 until they open gates. Nope. I started getting creative and found things that work for me. What works for me, might not work for others though.
I mean that's nice and all but your playstyle only works until you run into good survivors who know when they can stick onto a gen. Peeling off a chase to pressure someone else works, but you also need to commit to chases cause how much you can regress them for will never beat out survivor's repair speed, so you'll just lose very slowly.
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Dev response:
"It's come to our attention that Doctor is overperforming so we're going to make him less frustrating to new players."
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1019115#Comment_1019115
Its always “survivors need to get good”
and they do
but a lot of killers aren’t that good either. Why do they never need to get good? We’ve had complaints in here previously about killers being genrushed in 3 minutes or being looped for 5 gens. Why do killers never need to get good?
Ironic when you all say its survivors that want to be coddled.
Except none of us are using "well killers aren't good" as an excuse. Literally how do you stop a team that wants to genrush? Slugging? Cool, I still depip. Getting looped for 5 gens is on the killer, but some maps do just have insanely good and easy loops, and any chase longer than 30s is detrimental to a killer.
When the deck is stacked that much, when even the insanely good players sometimes have unwinnable games, something is off. It shows when even awful teams can get a majority of the objectives done.
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@SunderMun said:
This experiment won't show anything different to pre-nerf ruin games tbh.
SWF could always rush gens insanely quickly if they were optimal and kept split pressure on gens.
It will be faster since now you'll get the 2% boost from skillchecks.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1019070#Comment_1019070
Ruin bought people more time to camp and tunnel thats a fact. Whether it was 30 seconds or 5 minutes it was extra time the killer could use to camp/tunnel a survivor. Many players took advantage of this. Say what you want about WHY Ruin worked bad survivors etc but the fact is it did work. It did slow buy the killer more time.
I’ve been playing solo and seeing plenty of killers winning games. The average survivor just isn’t that good.
Again with the "survs aren't good so balance for the potatoes". Maybe they should just get good.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018982#Comment_1018982
Of course I knew you weren't serious. You're the type of get on here and cry. Why take advice and try to get better when you can complain and try to get nerfs to happen. :P
Oh no how dare I talk about literal problems with game balance that are clear to see if you just take a moment to consider it. I honestly doubt you do play Killer, or you sit in the low to mid ranks and face potatoes. But whatever, the devs have shown their hand and have taken a stance that they know best and high skill players are just wrong.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018919#Comment_1018919
It's something you got to work towards, something you can't go to the boards to complain is OP every time you lose to it. I don't play with headphones, so I'm handicapped compared to others and can still hold my own in the high ranks. Do I lose awful on some matches? Yep. Do I win hard on others? Yep.
Too many freak out on any hard loss and look to blame.
I wasn't being serious fyi. But this about tells me you're just full of it.
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@VexTheHex said:
Skill could as well.
All mighty skilled one, tell us your secrets.
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@memiieko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018836#Comment_1018836
1/2 at Level 3 but I get you. I honestly think it's balanced because when you maintain good pressure then you can slow the game down a good amount, obviously it's not as god tier as old ruin but I still think it has value and shouldn't be discarded immidiately. However, this whole thing could've been avoided if it weren't for somewhat busted gen speeds or lack of secondary onjs
But if you're by some miracle maintaining enough pressure for ruin to matter then it's already a won game, mostly because it means the survs are really bad.
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Whenever survs start feeling he's unfun to play against.
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Lolno. It would be if base regression rate wasn't 1/4 of the rate at which a survs repairs. Right now Ruin would suck as a non-hex perk.
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Did everyone on the bus to Thathappenedsville stand up and clap for you?
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018629#Comment_1018629
This might come as a shock but some players can put out enough pressure that keeps multiple survivors off gens.
Ah yes, the magical "just pressure the whole team bro".
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018640#Comment_1018640
You say bad players.....but these are your average survivors. This is what survivors are.
I dont get why people assume they’re going against depip squadettes every game.
No, you said bad survivors. I was literally quoting your first comment.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018535#Comment_1018535
And bad killers doesn’t mean the game is survivor favoured.
I'm not the one claiming bad players means the other side is favoured. I can mathematically break down how the game is survivor favoured and killers are reliant on survs to make many mistakes to even have a chance.
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@grtf47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1017817#Comment_1017817
Slugging, not chasing to infinite loops, using perks like Thanataphobia and nurses and trying to injure and catch survivors while healing instead of chasing two heath states. Just use your brain instead of being so closed-minded and whining about a slight change to a skill check
Oh, so just play the same, or in the way that surv mains have declared "toxic", but with a 3 gen handicap because there's no perk to help out in the early game against these insane gen times, gotcha.