Leon_van_Straken
Leon_van_Straken
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@crogers271 said:
Of all the threads that discussed the abandon issue, why did this one get necroed?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035322#Comment_4035322
For the record, I'm pro giving the killer a surrender option, but
1: Right now, the game would just end, so it depends on whether its a hypothetical world where BHVR has fixed that issue.
2: Is the issue fairness (i.e., the survivors have this, so the killer should), or is it jus something that should exist (a good idea)?
The fairness issue is that BHVR's approach is agency - how much can the player do at this point in the game. The killer agency is still relatively high in these situations compared to the survivor equivalents.
The is it just a good idea - the difficulty is where to draw the line. Make it standing in the exit gates, survivors just stand slightly outside the exit gates. It's very easy to draw a line for the survivors where they are highly unlikely to advance their position (everyone slugged for example), then it is for the killer (as many people have said in the comments, many kills are obtained after gates opened). So you create the situation where BHVR puts a lot of work into coding an additional abandon option, only for survivors who are interested in bullying the killer to easily sidestep it.
But that is kinda my point. If you stay outside of the exit gate and not the finish line the Killer has a chance.
I give you an examples:
Killer has noed and hits you at the exit gate line. You drop out. But if you are out of the gate even before the gate and the Killer hits you than the game is going on. Thats what I ment in my posts by saying the Survivor needs to screw up.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035251#Comment_4035251
Not the Slugging is the bad part neither getting hit by the Killer but that "IF" you don´t want to waste time or don´t like to getting bmed you can leave the game. Easy as that.This is the right mentality. I don't agree with giving the killer the ability to abandon outside of extreme cases, but that is what prospective solutions should focus around. Like the abandon feature was proposed to target, it should focus on preventing absolute loss of agency, respect the player's time, and minimize one sided BM scenarios. Even if abandon isn't it especially for the killer side, that isn't to say it shouldn't be a more mindful system.
The only thing I ask is that the Killer gets the abbandon option if nothing else is to do than hitting the survivors and watch the tbag parade.Thats why I feel directly addressing the exit gate's virtually non-lethal zone would be the best place to focus efforts. Since abandon would cause issues for match integrity, a more considerate solution would be to incorporate something that targets that instead. People already used powers and addons that block exits as an excuse for people to use, yet they are extremely limited among the roster. They could easily explore things like that, exposure effects when staying too close to a powered exit gate (could even make it scale in speed or duration based on partially powered gates, to make 99ing to prevent EGC more risky,) AoE effects in the gate itself like The Savior Mankind Ill Needs can do, etc. Its an entirely untapped portion of every map thats supposed to be a hopeful finish line more than arguably the safest spot on any map.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035254#Comment_4035254
Not sure I understand your point. The anti-tunnel changed never made it to live. People never got to get used to those. The abandon system has been around for a while now, and people willnotlike it if it’s reined in.Youre right, and I don't know if it was related to their point, but its an interesting point that most killers weren't vehemently against a system like that, but more that the threshold was far too strict based on the laughably obfuscated definition of "tunneling." I'm pretty sure most would be fine with it if the minimum hooks were brought down to a lower number than 6. It could have been tested around lower values so that it wouldn't affect things like juggling multiple survivors or tunneling later in the game as an adaptive comeback mechanic. The main issue was that situations that weren't early game tunneling could very easily get lumped into that depending on the flow of the match, and the goalpost-on-wheels that is "defining tunneling." Did we ever get to hear what the third form was?
But yeah, if there's anything that we've seen time and again with this game, its that overshooting on a mechanic or idea to help one side tends to lead to a lot of negativity when reigned in or scrapped. Many people want their personal advantages more than a healthy game, so that will always be an unfortunate side effect of most nerfs just in concept.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035314#Comment_4035314
Not only that, but the developers would waste resources on something that killers can live without.That is the literal definition of QoL. Improvements that aren't necessary for the game, but improve the experience for the end user. If that was used as a dismissal we wouldn't have gotten the majority of the improvements the game has received, the issue is more with them wasting those resources on things that don't even pass the conceptual phase, yet get pushed to PTBs (and sometimes even straight to live) anyway. If we want to trim some fat, they should focus on considerably more theory crafting and smoke testing to make sure both concepts and proposed solutions are more concrete before dedicating resources enough to put them in our hands, even for further testing. There are arguments about salvaging bad ideas and repurposing them into good ones later, but thats more an exception than a rule.
I just dont see the point why they would even need a surrender in the first place, since they are never in a position to ever needing it besides those extreme scenarios.Is the implication that survivors need a surrender outside of extreme scenarios? They're an elimination based role, so they only have to stick around to the end if they are the last survivor. Otherwise they get to leave a match before the killer, which allows them to get into another match faster. It was the entire premise behind go next advocates, being able to get out of a losing game faster and into another one where they had more potential. You can absolutely have a bad game without it being some extreme hostage situation.
Survivors for years had no choice but essentially be afk.Same for killers who refuse to swat survivors out. They just get the added bonus of loud noise notification spam from across the map. Survivors could at least be eliminated, preferably by just playing out the game like usual and dying since it is apparently inevitable, despite the potentials of both hatch and sneaking a cheeky exit gate if you end up being last.
Which didnt even work since killers carrying survivors stopped the bleedout timer.Likewise, if two survivors forever hide and finish at least one gen every 10 minutes, or force a regression event within the same cadence, they can theoretically go all the way up to the server shutdown. Not realistic, but if we want to talk about extremes that exploit oversights, this game never lacks them for either side.
Why would the "power role" surrender when they lost 5 gens when the game is yet to be over?.If you are playing chess, do you need to actually take the opponent's king, or just put them in a situation where any move they make would result in it? Likewise, why does the abandon feature on survivor side disregard "its not over yet" elements? Even on the individual level?
If you really wanted to surrender, you technically could by just opening the gate, pushing the survivors out or be afk and wait out the endgame collapse timer.Thats like saying you could just walk away or alt tab and do something else while waiting to bleed out. Oh, with the added bonus of constant
LoudNoiseNotification.wavandStevegull.ogg.People want solutions that respect their time just as much as their agency.At most, i can reasonably see bhvr adding a endgame collapse timer speed up if survivors are hovering around the gate.The target of loitering in the exit gate is good, but it needs to be more forward thinking than just that. You also don't want to punish regrouping in exit gates too hard, as it would reduce last second play attempts considerably. And believe it or not, that greed can easily be better for the killer than the survivor, so its a good element to keep. Thats why I feel like it should focus more on increasing risk (within reason) rather than reducing gameplay.
I would give you more than 1 upvote if I could.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035326#Comment_4035326
But if they're already not using those perks, what's the point of changing their features? It would mostly just be a straight buff if everyone who tunnels drops the perks.
I understand what you point is here.
I try to bring Killer away from tunneling by their own choice not by force. Does that make sense to you?
If you get the feeling of the choice that you could take these perks and they fit more of you playstyle to play the not so effeicient way to go for hooks over Kills, than I really think many players would go this way.
Ofcourse we can force the Killers away till everyone has to play the exact same way. But I am afraid this will kill the game for real.
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@ArcT said:
"The Killers didn´t ask for a abbandon when all gens are finished or the gates are opend."
Literally the first post in this thread from like 7 months ago is asking to abandon when all gens are finished.
But we are discussing the point right now if it is okay that Killers can abbandon when all Survivors are at the Exit gate are we not?
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He is a bit in the Springtrap Situation.
When Springtrap droped many claimed he is to op with his stealth. Well we all know that the additional invisibilty was a bug.
Just remove the ability of Ghould to stop his ability mid air so you need Skill to cut off survivors and let him not get every hit by a single click of his mouse button.
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@cogsturning said:
Most of the hard tunnelers I encounter don't use perks like this. Why would they? The unique hook token system is already at odds with their methods. The 3v1 is it's own anti-gen.
Thats what I said. If you go into the match with the mindset I will go tunnel you take other perks. So these perks should be more rewarding if you don´t tunnel and less overkill if you do.
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He kinda lost everyrthing that made him unique and got to a dash Killer.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035221#Comment_4035221
Here's my unproven prediction.
Killers would be afk and then dc the moment the gens are done.
If the killer doesnt dc, most likely endgame perks which survivors will always be able to see comming, which will indirectly nerf endgame perks...besides noed.
Not only that, but the developers would waste resources on something that killers can live without.
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I just dont see the point why they would even need a surrender in the first place, since they are never in a position to ever needing it besides those extreme scenarios.
Survivors for years had no choice but essentially be afk.
Which didnt even work since killers carrying survivors stopped the bleedout timer.
Why would the "power role" surrender when they lost 5 gens when the game is yet to be over?.
If you really wanted to surrender, you technically could by just opening the gate, pushing the survivors out or be afk and wait out the endgame collapse timer.
At most, i can reasonably see bhvr adding a endgame collapse timer speed up if survivors are hovering around the gate.
This would accomplish your goal without giving more give ups when the game isnt over yet.
The Killers didn´t ask for a abbandon when all gens are finished or the gates are opend.
They ask for an abbandon when the Survivors are all at the exit gate so that they don´t get the walk of shame.
If all 4 Survivors are standing at the finish line there is nearly 0% chance that the Killer (if the survivors don´t screw up) can do something else than hitting them out while they tbag or click their flashlights.
So I ask again and maybe you can give me an simple answer. What are survivors losing except to bm the Killer when the Killer has the option to close the trial when these conditions are in play?
The Survivors escape except they screw up or the game ends and the survivors escape. So why are Survivors acting like it would be unfair if the Killer won´t need to see them escape?
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Armsrace made this game way to fast paced like a game for speedrunners.
Efficenty at all cost.
Got hit by the second pallet this game? Better start a new round.
Got found in an unlucky spot? Better start a new round.
There is no room for much skill show off. Make one great play and it is most likely that the other side gets stomped.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035253#Comment_4035253
Not sure I understand your point. The anti-tunnel changed never made it to live. People never got to get used to those. The abandon system has been around for a while now, and people will not like it if it’s reined in.
My point was.
BHVR does something like the Anti Tunnel.
People say "Yo BHVR that is to strong turn it down a bit"
BHVR does so and gets the crapstorm of hell.
Maybe not the best example. I just wanted to agree with you on the can of worms.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
My hottest DbD take is that the abandon system should never have been implemented, or at the very least not without a timer before it becomes available. Textbook definition of the phrase ‘opening a can of worms’.
They can’t add a timer now, ‘cause then it creates another storm of “you just hate survivors” and “killers only want to gloat” comments, which assume so much bad intent that it’s frankly asinine. I just want to finish the game in a normal fashion, but for whatever reason they chose to allow it in the most inelegant, immersion-breaking way.
The original intent was to prevent hostage situations. Surely, surely, having to wait 8 seconds for a mori animation to finish isn’t holding you hostage?
If the killer leaves the final survivor on the ground for over 30 seconds to find hatch, sure, let them abandon. But now killers can’t even finish a normal match where nothing underhanded occurred, and still be left to clean up the mess because the survivor can’t be bothered to wait 8 seconds.
This forum lives on drama I tell you…
My all time favorite was seeing that people claimed BHVR is Killer Sided because the added tally marks on the Survivors. Because a hard tunneling Killer could forget that he went for Dwight all game long and it is now much easier to tunnel for no reason at all.
The problem is in my personal opinion that you can "as you said" always demand more and never row back.
Good example was the new anti tunnel. Most people claimed "turn the hooks down. If you sacrifice after the fourth hook it is no hard tunnel. But the outcry was enormous and now we got it gutted completly.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035239#Comment_4035239
You made an Edit to an post after 4 new posts have been dropped. Thats not good faith.
I made an edit 2 minutes after I posted it, after considering. The time stamp is there.
I also clarified in the response you read. Which isn't edited at all. To be clear here and for the third time: it shouldn't exist, make them watch the mori.
You haven't answered my question, not once. You keep deflecting and dodging.
The reason I ask "why not give survivors the option to "hit the killer out" while slugged instead?" Is the same reason you won't answer it and push for anything else, including personal attacks now:
They aren't the same scenario. That's the reason. You don't give survivors that option because it's a bad idea, and shouldn't be in the game. Period.
But you can't say that, because your stance is "they should have the same options, make it fair".
So you're stuck. You can't admit they're actually different scenarios, because that undermines your entire premise.
You can't request "equivalence" and then agree with me that they aren't the same.
Others are also calling you out because the reality is: you just want to disconnect, but recognize how entitled that sounds.
As I said both scenarios.
Beeing slugged and forced to hit the others out is exact the same in this scenario.
Not the Slugging is the bad part neither getting hit by the Killer but that "IF" you don´t want to waste time or don´t like to getting bmed you can leave the game. Easy as that.
One side got the possibility for more than one reason. You can abbandon if all Survivors are slugged even if someone could have unbreakable. You can abbandon when all Survivors are hooked even if someone could have deliverance or slippery meat. You can abbandon when you get downed twice and healed up no matter in which time period this occurs. You can even abbandon when both exit gates and the hatch is open while you are still healthy and the killer on the other side of the map.
The only thing I ask is that the Killer gets the abbandon option if nothing else is to do than hitting the survivors and watch the tbag parade.
But it seems that one of these is okay, even if still possibilitys exist while the other would be a total disaster for survivors if this "shaming ritual" would be cut short.
Why is that?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035239#Comment_4035239
This is sounding more like you just want to quit when the game doesn't go your way.
I don´t play Killer that much, since I suck at dashes and hitting something without crosshair.
So I would say I understand that a Killer doesn´t want to do a walk of shame at the exit game while still looking for excpetions like @random1543 called out.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035232#Comment_4035232
If it only went off when all survivors where at the exit gate then it would be ok but then imo it would rarely work.
If we just go with three, one of the survivors could be still out in the map doing a totem for a cleanse totem challenge or the green glyph challenge that is easier to do at end game due to it showing you the location of them.
The reason I'm so against it is because the match just ends, if it was just a afk bot it would be fine imo.
where as for the killer the match just stays active and they can decide to leave after they have done challenges or objectives they may of wanted to do.Yeah thats the part we are talking about and I often said so.
Give the Killer the option to abbandon the game when 3 or more survivors are at the exit gate area.
Because if you run out of it to do a glyph or search the hatch the game continues. You go for the risk and the Killer has a chance to do something. But when 4 people stay at the border of the exit. There is nothing to do and if the Killer belives he can do something he doesn´t need to abbandon right? So a Deathslinger can still punish you for staying in the trial.
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Easy as that.
If you are Slugged and the Killer is willing to stay on you Bming than all the other Survivors do Gens while you crawl to the open gate. You win or the Killer must pick you up. No reason to abbandon there since you still able to win by just letting your team work the gens.
I didn´t talked about the Endgame timer there. I talked of the time difference between getting hit and instant abbandon and hitting up to 4 survivors 2 times before they decide to leave.
You made an Edit to an post after 4 new posts have been dropped. Thats not good faith. That is just trying to blame someone else and by saying you are finished with the discussion without answering a simple question which seem really important to you you didn´t win the discussion either.
Just be honest with yourself.
You want the Killer to get shamed at the exit gate and this is your only point.
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@random1543 said:
The problem is Killers do not have bots.
If killers did have bots when they dc, or heck even just stood there afk we could give the killers more abandon options
But since when a killer leave the match ends they need to stay strict for the killer side until there is at least a afk bot left for the survivors (and survivors could abandon if they wanted like how killer can abandoned when its all bots)We are talking about abbandon when nothing else is to do than hitting survivors out.
Is hitting a survivor out such a cruicial part of the Survivor gameplay?
If they want to donate the Killer extra Bloodpoints and the Killer doesn´t want them still no one loses something. It is only time wasted and cutting toxicity out of the game.
So I can not see the Problem with this.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035225#Comment_4035225
why not give survivors the option to "hit the killer out" while slugged instead?
I'm still waiting 6+ months for an answer to this. You first.
Survivors got the abbandon button the second when they get slugged like this. Because they don´t want their time wasted or see the Killer pressing W and S.
Killer still must tolerate the much longer Tbag and Clicky Click party.
Your turn
What do you lose when the Killer abbandons when all Survivors are at the exit gate?
You win either way so what are you losing when we give the Killer the option to abbandon?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035215#Comment_4035215
That isn't my point. These aren't equivalent scenarios. You might as well ask "why are the flavor texts in italics then" for all the relevance that has.
I'm not a huge fan of abandon, for this exact reason. I find most of these posts to be on the edge of (and some cross the line) of promoting bad behavior by telling people to disconnect, which is explicitly against forum rules.
Almost everyone pushing this is trying to conflate two very different things, where killers have options and agency, and survivors have literally nothing while slugged. It's a false equivalence.
And when I try to point that out, people ignore it. I'm in this exact thread from before it got resurrected asking why not give survivors the option to "hit the killer out" while slugged instead? That would make them equivalent scenarios, but people don't want to look at that, they want to disconnect from a match in progress.
Which is against forum rules.
So I make it more even.
Why can a Survivor Skip the Mori animation with abbandon. It is just another way for the Killer to force you out of the gate.
If Survivors are willing to wait 2 Minutes in the Exit gate and demand the Killer to hit each one twice before they crawl out they can watch the short clip of a mori or not?
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035218#Comment_4035218
Which unlike survivors being bleed out or being slugged, without any way out or forward.
(Unless with extreme situational perk loadouts)
Killer CAN end the game and move the game forward,
Without even needing to use any perk for it.
They arent held hostage, their powers arent just magically disabled, they cant be t-bagged, they arent even forced to watch survivors leave as they are forcing them out of the gate.
the many extreme situations that killers have zero control over but are essentially in a stalemate,
They already have a surrender option for that too.
(Example : survivors hiding for eternity and not doing the objective)
So unless killers for some reason get head-on stun-locked in EGC or get a similar treatment as such, this wont happen and it makes no sense to do so.
This isnt double standart, thats just how bhvr unfortunately desisnged their game and the surrender.
So I ask you the same question:
What do you lose when the Killer abbandons the game instead of forcing you out?
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@Philscooper said:
You know this wouldnt be a thing if killers werent slugging and bleeding out excessively when the game was over, but i disgress.
That was probably the only good thing we got this year for survivors that luckily wasnt reverted or removed or nerfed.
Thankfully Survivors can´t be sore Winners and waste the Killers time or trying to be as toxic as possible so that Killers would demand a way to abbandon.
Oh wait…
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035177#Comment_4035177
Survivors could have unbreakable, no mither, etc and they can still abandon.
Force them out is base kit for every killer in the roster.
Remind me which of these options is base kit for survivor? Because they pulled anti slugging, remember.
I ask it the other way around.
What are you as Survivor losing if the Killer leaves the match when you are staying at the exit gate?
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@random1543 said:
I like the change but think it should come with this condition:
- if someone dies before 4 hook states (to avoid people getting it when they where not hard tunneling)
Then we can just apply it to all gen regression perks since its such a hard line for the penaltyYeah I could live with this point.
But you can´t take it for all gen slowdown.
I made my point because the token perks are meant to spread hooks.
While surge is for downing someone close to a gen as an example. You don´t need to tunnel for it to apply.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035194#Comment_4035194
yeah idk why people are downvoting people's opinion and civil discussions… id rather have a discussion where both parties can learn and actually find a fix for problems and ultimatly (hopefully) "assist" the devs in creating a better gaming experience (even with how flawed this year was but thats besides the point). (and dont worry i didnt downvote you)
Oh don´t worry I thought that you are the only upvote since it appeard with your post XD
I like disucssions and I like to get the "Ah heck yeah there did I go wrong" moment when someone explains their point of view.
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Seeing all these downvotes without an counter argument makes me belive I hit a nerv there XD
I really would like to hear from the downvoters why they think it is a bad idea.
If you go for tunneling one person out you won´t benefit much out of these perks at all and would be better off with other perks.
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@Zuiphrode said:
People would literally use the anticollision to run inside another player and act as a force field since they would be hit.
Just make them unhittable till it wears off?
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035186#Comment_4035186
i agree up to a certain gen point like if 3 gens remaing then the killer has to tunnel or heavily make use of gen regression otherwise its a lost battle thanks to multiple things (map size and what not).
I agree on that we should reward spreading hooks because as of current there is no real reason to go after the uninjured survivor vs the injured survivor who already has 1 hookstate in.
I also think that if this were to join the match that if the killer has less then lets say 3-4 hookstates (so about 2 on death hook) and there are 3-2 gens remaining that gen progression perks and maybe even exhaustion perks would be disabled.I understand where you come from and I understand your points.
I just want to attack the huge snowball potential such perks can have when someone early is tunneld out.
We can agree that the game becomes a lot harder when you are 3v1 in an early stage of the game and there should be no reason that gen regression or even blocking gens which is thought to be as a reward for going for different survivors should be the strongest when you target one survivor out.
I magine following Situation:
You are pulling through. You are at a close match one gen left but only you and 1 Survivor is standing Gen at 80%. Your mate gets downed for the first time in this round cause the Killer ignored him whole game. Total hook counter 7 hooks right now. Your mate gets hooked, the gen explodes in your face and gets blocked for 40 seconds. This is just overkill.
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@XDgamer018 said:
so wil gen progression perks also be disabled if the killer has a certain amount of hook states? or exhaustion perks vs m1 killers (since vigil sprintburst is uncounterable to killers without mobility)
I think what I want to say is the following.
If you go for token perks which where introduced to spread hooks you should go in this trade.
If you go for different hooks you get a stronger benefit, because you go out of you way to tunnel.
But if you go for the tunnel you should not benefit anymore from a perk which is designed to counter tunneling.#
I hope this makes sense for you.
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I am always buffled for what reason Survivors get the abbandon button. Some times when I play with friends I am even confused why it showed up in the first place.
My all time favorite will be:
I am the last on in the Trial, both exit gates and the hatch is open. I am full health and the Killer has no clue where I am and this is enough to trigger the abbandon button.
Another funny one is the following. I get downed early but get picked up because the Killer tried to get the survivor who was trying to flashlight save me. Then I got picked uo after 4 gens got completed an I could abbandon?
For Killer there is an easy solution. Give the Killer the abbandon possibility when 3 or 4 survivors are in the Exit area. You can´t argue with "but the challenge wants me to get hatch" because the hatch won´t spawn in the Exit gate Area and if you try to abuse it by standing outside the Killer has atleast the chance to get you even without abilitys which block the exit gates.
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I always get confused of these mass exodus an game is dying posts.
Both sides are spreading them and its always these arguments which are contradicting each other.
Example:
All X mains leave the game because BHVR listens to the other side which is crying louder.
But… your side leaves so… you are on the side which is crying louder? Because the other side seems fine because they are playing.
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@jesterkind said:
I've been a proponent of this idea for a long time, and while I do still think it's hypothetically one of the best ways of addressing tunnelling, there is one snag I've never been fully sure how to address: Survivors using this lack of collision for saves.
Without collision, the survivor can phase in to the killer and drop a flashbang, or run through them to get a pallet drop prompt, without the killer being able to do anything about it.
IF a solution to that problem can be found, I'm all for it. I've toyed with stuff in the past myself, like survivors not being able to use items while intangible, but that only fixes half the problem- I'm curious if you've got any ideas for addressing it!
I once stated that it could be possible to let the Survivor only walk while he has no collision but the catch is that the status stays until the survivor does something else than that or someone else gets hooked.
So the Killer could not tunnel the Survivor because he can´t hit them and the Survivor could not interact with anything only when the Survivor gives the green light and is "safe or needed" in his opinion. You give the ageny of the tunneling to the Survivor.
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You mean the new bug Introduction?
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035053#Comment_4035053
we shouldn’t have to worry about this, the devs should be qaing their game like professionals and not pushing busted updates.
I agree with you
But if you belive it or not. Even when these "screw you game" moments happen from time to time. They are really a lesser problem in the game
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035045#Comment_4035045
Seems like a good way for a company to shoot themsleves in the foot.
We are talking about a company which charges for:
The game
Characters
Perks
Riftpasses
and you think they won´t sell a premium login pass because it is a bad for their publicity?
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034927#Comment_4034927
right lets not move lockers away from vaults or remove the bs autoaim because it could break something… /s nah both should’ve been changed years ago.
Thats why I said I agree we should do it. Yesterday if possible. But I am really afraid what this will break. Like the New Jungle Gyms breaking some maps.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034912#Comment_4034912
The big problem with this is the following mentality. "You won´t heal me? Well here I go to the Killer and screw you over"
That's why I push for a hook donation system. Survivors can choose to donate their first hook state to the shared pool, and if there's a bad actor like this they can choose not to.
I've also mentioned that this would have a limit of something like 4 minutes or 350% total gen progress across the map, or both, where it locks in hook states and you can no longer donate in mid to late game.
Another big problem which was seen on the PTB was that if you give Survivors the safety of beeing save from tunneling it can be weaponized pretty easy together with basekit unbreakable this makes some horrible scenarios. "Hehe I am on death hook, I will go for body blocks. Oh I got downed and slugged for 20 seconds. LETS DO IT AGAIN!" /evil voice off. You see the problem in that I hope.
Well, they also pulled anti slugging, so this isn't a feature to be concerned about anymore.
But in the scenario with hook donation, the primary goal of the killer is so to eliminate someone as soon as possible, it's just how they do that changes. They will want to burn through hooks as fast as they can.
So, normally, this will be chases, but if someone gets downed body blocking, like your doom scenario here, the killer just gets a free hook and free gen pressure toward their goal.
If the Killer picks up a survivor and carries them to a hook all Gens get blocked for the time the Killer invests
I personally think that non interactive effects like gen blocking and incapacitation should be extremely limited.
I'm not opposed to the idea of giving the killer additional gen speed slowdown during a carry, for example, but that's only if they actually put in meaningful anti tunnel.
Blocking gens, or even slowdown, doesn't fix the "trapper can't cross the map like blight can" problem either.
The hook donation system would be a stronger shoulder the burden and would buff SWF to an extreme which isn´t that good while soloque mates would most likely act selfish. There is a reason why no soloque player runs shoulder the burden but SWFs do.
I don´t think that it was smart to scrap the anti slug. It was only to strong when it gets abused with the immunity of anti tunnel if this makes sense to you.
I didn´t give the Killer the Pop the weasle for exact this reason. A Trapper wont reach the gen faster than a blight. But both carry the survivor in the same pace. Additionaly the gen block stops when the Survivor is hooked. This mechanic is only there to stop the argument from the Killer that he had no time to hook.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034929#Comment_4034929
The time they take to generate was recently reduced. I got one the other day just from stopping to respond to some trash talk from my previous match. And I haven't had one since they were overtuned.
Also, there's been times when I'm in a locker using BtL and a chase comes my way and people are just looping around me. I can't just get out in some short time frame.
Well but this is far away from the normal game loop if you need a perk a chased survivor and killer heading to your direction and deciding to loop around your specific locker for another 15 seconds.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034944#Comment_4034944
The issues is the continous decline in what they give year by year, event by event. It's especially aggravating after the last few months of broken promises, failed efforts, and bugs galore. They could at least give out some goodies to quell anger and get people reengaged.
Yeah the thing is they could.
What I am afraid of is the following and mark my words for the following Winter Event
"Since the player feedback has been mostly negative we decided to remove the login rewards for this event."
I have seen this in so many games when they try to cut out "free stuff". Give less and less and then say its fault of the ungrateful community. But "Hey you can get this new login premium pass for 1000 aura cells"
Thats where I think this will lead.
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Once I made a survivor dc because I didn´t went down fast enough so he could save me.
Even stated in Aftergame Chat: "Dude I will not follow you for the whole game while you decide to loop the Killer. XD
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@AcesSpeedo said:
Siege is doing a free cosmetic every day of december when you log in and claim and dbd is doing 50k bloodpoints LOL
if anybody wanted to know how ######### we have it in dbd
Don´t Starve Together gives a daily free Skin since yeaers so it must be better than Siege?
I understand you, the free stuff isn´t that great and even got worse but they don´t have to give something for free at all.
Screaming that this is unfair will most likely get it completly removed instead of improved.
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Do crows still exist?
It´s has been a long time since I saw them.
Just let them appear faster on lockers. No one can convince me that standing longer than 30 seconds in a locker is a regular play against the Killer.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034923#Comment_4034923
It wouldn't even be a hard to change move the lockers much less turn off auto aim…but I hear ya when it comes to the code xD
I agree with you. It wouldn´t be to hard to change that. But what will break if they do?
New invisible walls? Lockers where you can see the Survivor Models? New fat shaming points?
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Well both sides get screwed by the game.
Survivors hopping into lockers instead of vaulting or they want to heal and drop the pallet.
While the Killer side wants to hit the survivor on the open field and autoaim got you covered by letting you hit the pole on your left which wasn´t on your screen at all.
The game is spagethi code and will always be.
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Oh! we could give him a dash
Oh Oh! and a teleport!!!
So he will be unique~
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@Zuiphrode said:
These sorts of changes heavily incentivize slugging for reasons which should be extremely obvious.
Wasn´t that the reason why Slugging became a problem in the first place? Because it was negative impact for the Killer to hook at all? You pick up, risking a save, walking to hook, hooking, activating perks like OTR DS and DH. It is a big time investment.
@Reinami said:
The way i would do is that survivors share the 1st hook state. Meaning that the earliest you could remove someone from the game is the 6th hook, which at that point most people would agree is near the later half of the game.
The big problem with this is the following mentality. "You won´t heal me? Well here I go to the Killer and screw you over"
Another big problem which was seen on the PTB was that if you give Survivors the safety of beeing save from tunneling it can be weaponized pretty easy together with basekit unbreakable this makes some horrible scenarios. "Hehe I am on death hook, I will go for body blocks. Oh I got downed and slugged for 20 seconds. LETS DO IT AGAIN!" /evil voice off. You see the problem in that I hope.
I once thought about this mechanic. If the Killer picks up a survivor and carries them to a hook all Gens get blocked for the time the Killer invests. But I am unsure about this.
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To be fair both sides are horrible at adapting to new metas.
Meta is always a weapons race. Following example:
Survivor: Killer meta is tunneling: Well lets bring anti tunnel perks.
Killer: Mhhh these Survivors have all Anti tunnel perks, I guess I have to slug.
Survivors: Nice they stopped tunneling but now they slug, lets bring anti sluggin perks.
And the circle continues.
The problem on Survivor side is that many players are complety stubborn on their builds. How often I have seen my friends with this exact build:
- exhaustion Perk
- Windows of Oppurtunity
- finesse
- random perk you like
- and a med kit
They: "Damn all killer tunnel!"
Me: "Well take DS or Off the record?"
They: "No they should stop tunneling"
I am buffled there… Yes I know perks are not there to counter game aspects but on the other side Survivors tell Killers to use them to counter game aspects.
Gens go to fast? Use Gen slowdown.
Heals to fast? Use sloppy butcher.
And so on.
Hot take. If all Killer player tunnel or slug as a big chunk of Survivors claim than you don´t need Finesse or WoO to survive. You need anti tunnel or anti slug perks.
Edit:
This isn´t just a DbD thing. My best example is League of Legends.
Some people to this day are still trying to tell me that assassins should be able to one shot tanks, because its their roles thing to do.
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Oh boy here we go again~
I stated my point that the abbandon system needs a big overhaul. It is okay for me that survivors can abbandon when nothing else can be done.
What isn´t right for me are the following situations:
- Giving Survivors the ability to abbandon the game when the get picked up twice and healed. Like common, if you get picked up twice the game isn´t far from over. Even if the Killer is toxic and stands on you and downing you over and over again your team can rush gens while you crawl to an open exit game forcing the Killer to pick you up.
- Giving Survivors the ability to instant abbandon the game when the last nose touches the ground. Let there be a timer of 20 seconds for perks like unbreakable or deliverance to trigger.
- Giving the last Survivor the ability to abbandon when he is the only person left in the trial, while exit gates are open and he isn´t downed. Like dude why can I abbandon when I run to the exit gate?
The double standards are big in this game in this situation. I got slugged for 4 Minutes, the Killer is wasting my time against I am standing at the exit gate for 2 whole minutes and spam tbag and before someone comes with the argument, well the Killer can just come to the gate and maybe get a kill. No this won´t happen against good survivors, they will spam emote close to the gates wall.
Solution is pretty easy. If three or more Survivors are standing in the exit area give the Killer the abbandon feature. Now some will tell me well the survivors will do it in front of the gate and thats the point. In front of the gate isn´t as safe as the border of the exit.
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No one said he needed to be a pro at the game.
Just that he plays the game and don´t throw a tantrum at others which don´t care about his mistake as long as he keeps playing?
I wrote in a post that I think we could have won the game with a bot when he dced. Cause we just missed some seconds to escape.
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@SoGo said:
"I looped the killer for years"
Reality: 20 second chase.
If that happened to me I would start laughing. The guy must have a clock going at the speed of a wind turbine.
Damn you after so many years you dare to make me laugh XD
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@jmwjmw27 said:
Rescuing someone from the killer’s grasp is not bullying. Many people get bored of typical DBD gameplay and decide to mess around with sabo and other forms of saves because there is more interactivity with the killer.
As for people who *actually* bully killers (endgame chat and constant BM), it’s a power trip thing. The same reason people slugged everyone on the ground for 4 minutes and WSWS’d before the abandon option.
Yeah because it was a neccesary to give the Killer DS into flashband into head on into Flashbang by two people. /s
I know what you mean, getting a flashlight save isn´t Bullying and not worth crying.
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Comes down to group mentality and beeing better at something than the other.
If you are good at math and got some smart friends you laugh about the weirdo who gets no answer right.
If you are atheltic you laugh about the fat guy.
It is in our human nature.
Strong and better goes after small and weaker and thinks he is much bigger now.
Survivors do this even between each other.
How often I got snichted out because I did Gens before friends and such things.