Krazzik
Krazzik
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Whether tunneling is required or not, it's the easiest way to gain control of the game as killer and is generally the most efficient way to win regardless of killer, regardless of perks, regardless of map, so it'll always be heavily used by the playerbase.
Knight currently is not a very strong killer, he's not the worst, but he's not very high up there, and his upcoming buffs wont change that. His kit does make him strong at defending an area, and with 3-gen builds as strong as they are thesedays, and with his kit not being -that- strong in chase, it's no surprise he's so commonly found 3-genning.
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You can't really get any decent data from a single game. Anyone can play any killer on any map with any build and -can- do well. It doesn't mean anything.
Sorry but this thread seems a little pointless.
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@UnluckyDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314348#Comment_3314348
I should take the hook?--I have literally done that. I had 0 hooks, and the gates were being opened. I distracted the killer and I let myself get caught, and what did my team do? They all ESCAPED out the gate, and LEFT ME. But I had Deliverance. Did I get a chance to use it? NO. And I should have. But because they all left, I was instakilled.
Theres so many reason you may be the last one in the game--someone DC'd/Quit, someone Escaped before you got hooked--however it happened, IF you are the sole survivor and IF you get hooked for the first time you should be granted that 4% or a chance to use your delivernace.
That's more an issue with your teammates. Good survivors would have at least waited to let you try and unhook before leaving.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Adrenaline. It just kills any motivation to try, especially if there’s more than 1.
NOED, ‘cause it tends to come out of nowhere. Icy eyes may mean NOED, but that doesn’t mean only Icy Eyes use it.
I don't think you can include Adreneline in a list of perks that aren't that strong.
NOED is borderline.
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When I play survivor I -hate- Franklin's. I usually bring a decent medkit and if the killer is running that I'm just miserable for the rest of the game.
As killer I haaate Boil Over. Even if they're just playing normally it's so annoying, the increased sway is just blergh.
Also Blast Mine, because I know they're laughing at me from behind a rock
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You do know Deliverance, if used well, can be one of the strongest perks in the game, right? So giving -all- survivors Deliverance, one which doesn't need an unhook to activate AND doesn't give the Broken status effect, seems reasonable to you?
Not only that but they ALSO get Deliverance on their second hook too?
AND they don't even need to use up a perk slot?
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What more can they do against tunneling? I'm legit asking.
You already get 10 seconds of endurance and haste that usually guarentees you can get to a loop. Literally what else can they add that wouldn't be abused by survivors?
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Both those games failed because people hate fog.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314690#Comment_3314690
I dunno, Flip-Flop + Power Struggle make for an entertaining combo to run up again, if 'drop pallet on Killer by self' counts as wiggling free.
Boil Over, though? Yeah, it's just annoying at its weakest, and at its most effective it's a slug invitation because why bother trying to do the objective normally
True, though imagine if Flip Flop + Power Struggle was stronger and actually resulted in freeing yourself in most of your matches, it would be just as unhealthy for the game. As it stands it at least requires you to run two perks -and- to go down at a pallet -and- not to just get insta-picked up by the killer.
To be fair I also just think any perks that encourage the killer to slug aren't amazing for the game in general. Like I've had games as killer where I know they have Boil Over or I know they have Power Struggle and I just let them bleed out, which isn't fun for anyone.
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Honestly I wish they just scrapped Boil Over, it's simply a bad idea for a perk.
A perk solely designed around helping you wiggle free without the need of any teammatates doesn't belong in the game. It's not something that's supposed to happen unless the killer is new and can't find a hook quick enough.
Either the perk actually helps survivors wiggle free reliably and it becomes a meta perk everyone runs, or it's weak and unreliable and no one runs it. Oooor it only reliably works in certain places on certain maps and is just abused by survivors who only go down in those places.
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I mean you can have bad takes and wrongly label them as 'truths' if you want I guess?
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@Ayodam said:
Flashlights aren’t great, killers here deeply exaggerate their usage and complain about them. Beyond destroying Hag traps (I wouldn’t even consider using them on Artist crows because she places them while in chase, usually, and you’d waste time trying to destroy them when she’s after you), they’re only good for saves. That was recently nerfed by BHVR eliminating a survivor’s ability to readjust quickly if they mistime or mis-aim their flashlight save. I think Blastmine and firecrackers impair killer hearing, but Flashbang should as well.
If they mis-time or mis-aim their flashlight they don't deserve the save.
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Ah yes, doing something as easy as blinding a killer at a pallet should be an easy escape for the survivor.
As mentioned earlier you -could- try and crouch and hide while they're blind, rather than noisily running away and then get shocked when the blind killer can hear you.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313831#Comment_3313831
Some specific interactions with powers are not specified in their description, however if you are gonna complain about something you should at the very least know how that thing you are complaining about works.
And more to your topic, most survivors have no idea what killer powers do or killer specific things, for example, people still do not know trickster and sadako have a lullaby or that you only need to lock one locker against dredge when there are piled lockers, which imo is basic info.
True but it does actually say in his killer power that unhooking cancels the hunt.
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So many people don't seem to understand that a guard camping a hook isn't strong. Does no one read killer-power descriptions?
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@Batusalen said:
Make it a race to the exit gates instead of a race to the hatch: Remove the hatch, give the killer basekit NOED on last survivor and make so only one gate can be opened at the same time.
The survivor still has a chance to escape, the killer more chances to get what he deserves for winning and making his ability to open the gates useful (as killers can already open the exit gates, just there is not a single reason for doing that) and also prevents the other big problem with the hatch: Survivors not even looking for it but waiting in front of a gate to open it the moment the killer close the hatch.
Unless the survivor brings Sole Survivor and Wake Up, there'd be very little chance for survivors to ever get the gate in this scenario. It's already very unlikely and when it does happen it's usually because a survivor camps a gate waiting for killer to close hatch. Without a hatch the killers just patrolling gates and thus a surv has almost no chance.
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The hatch exists so that if survivors are getting stomped, there's still hope that someone can escape. It encourages losing survivors to play out the match. It doesn't do this perfectly, far from it, but if it didn't exist we would see -even more- DCing and suicides on hook the moment the killer starts doing well.
Also, regarding survivors going into the match with a 'find hatch' build and hiding all game, yes, it sucks, but the devs have said survivors can play selfishly. It's even on the steam page for the game, it's an option to either be a team player or only care about yourself. Now thankfully most people realise that helping your team -also- betters your own odds of survival, but if Claudette has an escape archive and brings a key and a hatch offering, she's allowed to do that.
Heck Sole Survivor and Left Behind exist for a reason.
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You can't buff recently unhooked survivors more or they'll just chase the killer and bodyblock for teammates.
You can add more incentives for the killer to -not- tunnel but the incentives will never be as strong as making the game a 3v1, thus making the incentives pointless.
There just isn't a way to 'fix' tunneling without completely overhauling how hooks and hook-states work, which BHVR probably doesn't want to do.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311450#Comment_3311450
10% is nothing if it doesn't yeet the survivor - by the time the killer is a threat, you'd already have caught up. And that requires a full kick to set up.
You'd basically just be junking the perk, ala Thana and Ruin. The only reason PR still sees play is because of DMS and that interaction.
As others have suggested, make Eruption work on hook, not on down. Or make it a gen block rather than an incap, so people can do other things.
That's just not true, Pain Res is still very popular to just run on it's own.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310274#Comment_3310274
Oh sorry, I got my absurdly over complained about perks mixed up. Let me fix.
Monkey see chase. Monkey see injury. Monkey let go gen. Injury man fall down. Monkey get back on gen.
There.
So stop doing gens whenever an injured person is in chase? That's a huge amount of wasted time not doing gens. What if the person in chase has Dead Hard and ends up adding 20 or 30 seconds to the chase, only to see their 3 teammates are standing around not doing gens. This is a ludicrous suggestion.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310213#Comment_3310213
Monkey see pickup. Monkey let go gen. Hook. Monkey go back on gen.
Eruption countered.
That counters DMS + Pain Res, NOT Eruption. Do you even play the game?
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310213#Comment_3310213
Hard disagree, starstruck+agitation may be bs, but if the nurse failed her blinks the combo lost effectiveness, now nurse players can change those perks for slowdown, making it so there is less skilled required to play nurse as all the perks you used for basic attacks will be replaced with slowdown, and you will have more time in the match in case you miss blinks, your mistakes won't get punished as hard as before.
Nurse can already just play 4 slowdown now if she wants to. Stop with the "Well NOW Nurse can't use starstruck+agi, she's gonna use an even more unfun build".
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You can still run Spasmodic Breath if you wanna get use out of Franklin's.
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Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Artist, Pyramid Head
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309430#Comment_3309430
Clearly Survivors don't care, and the devs have shown that's all that matters; What Survivors want.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309432#Comment_3309432
Of course they do.
Survivors are content that Nurse is being thoughtlessly gutted a second time. Even the thread title shows it.
I'm a killer main but go off kween.
Also she's not gutted? She'll still be the strongest killer in the game, what?
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309362#Comment_3309362
Because it's not only exposed perks. Think of EVERY perk that does not proc on special attacks:
- Franklin's (But Survivors will claim this is 'fair' because of course they will)
- Jolt is no longer useable on her
- No more Knock Out (It says 'basic attack' right on it)
- Can't use Save The Best For Last, since it says 'Each time you hit someone other than your obsession with a basic attack'
- Can't use Sloppy Butcher
- No more Unrelenting
Sure, not all of them are USEFUL on Nurse, but I bet dollars to donuts the devs did not even think of this list before this change. Just like they did not think of the fact that the Nurse uses her power to move around when they gutted it awhile back.
So? Who cares if the strongest killer in the game can't reliably use a bunch of perks? She doesn't need them. Yes, it does suck there are some non-exposed perks that she wont be able to use now, but I think Nurses will manage without Unrelenting and Knock Out.
And as I mentioned, you can still run Spasmodic Breath if you wanna use some of those perks.
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@Irisora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309363#Comment_3309363
Which translate to, when she downs and hook around 4 times all gens are probably gonna pop.. She will be an M1 killer that have to deal with third health state without any instadown, and we all know what that means. She needed changes but this is killing her completely, they should at least reduce the blink recharge speed to compensate or not take away the range addons.
You're trolling right? She will still be the strongest killer in the game. Many Nurse players don't even run exposed perks.
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@Th3Nightmare said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309372#Comment_3309372
Because Otz says so, does it already have to be? No.
I'm a 2016 player, and I tell you that this map is survivor sided.
I mean speaking solely from my own experience I've never disliked getting sent to The Game. I usually do well there and I play mostly m1 killers. There's a lot of pallets but not really anything else for survivors.
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Did they say it was the -only- survivor-sided map? I thought they just agreed that it was survivor-sided.
Also The Game isn't survivor-sided, Otz said so.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309341#Comment_3309341
I'm sorry you failed to address any points in my post and lack the skills to play around a Killer?
The fact is Nurse doesn't need access to exposed perks. Why is it bad that she can't use them?
If you -really- want to run them, you've got Spasmodic Breath that makes them more viable I guess?
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
People will still fail to win against her and yell for more nerfs.
Blink attacks being special attacks is BS, by the way. The Nurse literally can't attack normally, because she's slower than Survivors.
So it's more BHVR giving Survivors what they want while not even thinking about how the nerfs work in a real gameplay setting in the slightest. Kind of like how they nerfed her Blink to begin with, while forgetting (or ignoring) that it's not only her offensive power, but also how she moves around the map.
Sorry you cant crutch on exposed perks as Nurse?
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Blink attacks becoming special attacks, and range addons getting changed.
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It's true that there really is no way to 'fix' tunnelling with how the game currently is. It would require a complete redesign of how the hook mechanic and hook-states work, which I can't see BHVR ever doing. They may add some more anti-tunnelling perks to help punish tunnelling but even then, even with OTR, DS, BT, whatever it is, it's almost always better to eat through all that and tunnel, than it is to spread hooks, and nothing will ever change that without some massive overhaul of hooks.
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If the Knight's guards are downing you it's more an issue of your lack of skill.
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Ping is a huge part of it. Sometimes I get into a game with super low ping and I can get multiple great shillchecks pretty easily, but some lobbies I struggle to get just one.
Course it doesn't really make a big difference unless you have perks that require greats. Some people make out like you save heaps of time by hitting a lot of greats but without Hyperfocus it's far more important to just not fail any.
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Reassurance is pretty strong, and in a SWF it's very strong. It's one of the only perks survivors have to punish camping, and it does a good job at that. Even if it takes one survivor time to go over there and use it, that's still upto 2 other survivors who get 30 seconds longer on gens.
That said I'd be fine being able to proc it above basement hooks.
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No perks can be pretty boring to play. No addons/items added to that, yikes.
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Many maps are already too big, three gens being near each other is always gonna be a thing.
Maaaaybe BHVR could add an 8th gen but I'm not sure that would be a great idea.
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If a killer is slugging for the 4k, the 'correct' play if the last survivor wants to maximise their chances to escape, is hide until the other survivor bleeds out. It's not the nicest play but the killer is putting them in that position.
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The first couple days people memed around a little with the snowmen but now it's only really if it's a friendly killer/farming game already.
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Depends which killer you play but generally it's more killer-sided, being an indoor map.
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I mean it doesn't really mean much. People are still going to bring the strongest stuff they can most of the time and for killers that's multiple slowdown perks.
Sure, they could still win many matches without that, but so what? Why bring decent perks and win a bunch of matches when you could bring the best perks and win more of them?
This goes for both sides by the way. Outside of meme builds or people who do genuinely not care, why bring Overzealous or Better than New instead of Prove Thyself? Why bring Smash Hit instead of Sprint Burst or Dead Hard?
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But high MMR is a punishment.
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There are more survivor-sided maps than killer-sided maps. If you're asking for the two maps that favour killer to be changed you've also gotta ask for all others to be made more manageable for killer too.
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It's unlikely we'll ever get it, at least in the way it was in the PTB. It was only testing the feature and they acknowledge that there were severe problems with it.
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I mean it sort of makes sense. After a hook the killer is kicking gens, not looking for other survivors. This means that they haven't found anyone else by the time the unhook happens, and when the killer is in that position, the correct play is usually to return to the hook.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Tunnelling off hook in particular needs to be heavily punished by the base game mechanics without the need for perks.
Dubious botting viewer streamers or not, tunnelling in particular is killing the game slowly but surely. When you allow one side (killers) to deny the other side to play the game, get points or pip up and they are more or less defenceless to stop it, people will just stop playing the game altogether and the game is currently allowing that.
I don't even think it is camping so much (though with Bubba it is incredibly boring and unfun) as forcing a hook trade is something I can tolerate. But if they don't deal with the sheer amount of hard tunnelling off hook at even 5 gens, player numbers will continue to decline
What more can they do? They already added a basekit 10 seconds of BT and 10% haste to guarentee you can make it to a loop. If you can't loop and you go down right after the unhook then the killer has every right to just hook you again. The only thing they could do at this point is just add an invincibility shield that only goes away when someone else is hooked.
That said, Bubba is indeed a problem as he can just shred through endurance, that's an issue with him.
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@foodie said:
What have I missed? The servers were fine yesterday
It's complete luck whether you end up on a normal server or a server where everyone has unplayable, rubberbanding lag all game.
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Any data BHVR get on kill rates are pretty shaky with how common suicides on hooks are. You can probably take off a few percent off every killer simply to account for 'em I'd wager.
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Letting people bleed out -can- be the right play. Usually if they have Boil Over and run to a place you can't hook them from, then you've gotta just let them bleed out. Ditto if they're at a pallet and they might have Flip Flop/Power Struggle.
Most of the time people do it though, it's just them being a douche, but I mean it's not against the rules.