Kind_Lemon
Kind_Lemon
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- Kind_Lemon
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@LapisInfernalis said:
@Kind_Lemon There is enough time. Do you really search for the hatch? I only do against a Nurse or a Billy and/or when I notice that the exits are close together (I automatically watch out for them during the match). Else I sneak to an exit gate, hide (sometimes the killer will search them first before closing the hatch) until he closes the hatch. Then I open the gate for 4s (~20%) so the red light does not show, hide again until the killer checked it and then open it. Spine Chill is highly recommended for this!
This works 75% of all times. Other 25% are exits with LOS, Nurse, Billy or sniping Huntress.
... @LapisInfernalis are you seriously asking me if I was actively trying to survive or not? Of course I was looking out for the hatch.
The situation:
I was an OoO user with Sole Survivor against Ghostface.
GhostFace found the hatch and closed it. The exit gates were not super close, but not super far. It took me a while to get over to the gates while avoiding detection (farm map with mostly corn between the gates, can't look at GhostFace at all because he'll get the notification, which is stupid). Because he would get a notification if I glanced at him, I wanted to be sure he wasn't near me as much as possible. I decided after ~10 seconds which gate I would open to tigger the first light and which gate I would open after that. It took me over a minute to get to one gate, open it to ~20% when GhostFace moved away, and then sneakily traverse the map to get to the other gate. When GhostFace decided that the 20% door was my goal, he waddled over to my gate, which wasn't done. I didn't want to be seen, so I started walking away to get to the other gate (because I didn't want to be passive and hide in a corner just letting GhostFace do the tedious chore of going back and forth). By then the timer was very low, and neither of the gates were that close to being opened. So I had to run, not looking back to see what GhostFace was doing because the STUPID NOTIFICATION WOULD REVEAL ME. cough...my apologies for the vehemence.
In the end, I died because the timer at the top didn't allow me to contribute a type of play style that involved giving more, occasionally false, information to the killer over a longer period.
The way the timer functions upon a closed hatch stifles interactive play. There is only one way to open exit gates: hope the killer checks the wrong one while you open the other. It's not a result of planning in tandem with the killer's response to new information; it's just relying on skill-less luck.
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I'm just hoping that dedicated servers bring a way for the game to tag swf groups. Then we can talk.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
Why are there two values? Aren't they both affecting how well a killer sees through mist? And secondly, why not just suggest this as an additional modifier to Shadowborn, which lost its brightness modifier?
Personally, I think Shadowborn should protect a killer from all auras. This would solve some people's issues with OoO completely.
Also, I threw in the above thread because there are some fun Shadowborn suggestions not necessarily relating to this thread but interesting nevertheless.
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@thedevalex said:
If your team didn't repair all the generators, and you didn't find the hatch in time, why should you get a free escape?
The gates being powered when the hatch is closed and everyone is dead is already a privilege.
I mean, it's really not. 2 minutes is not nearly long enough for strategic opening of exit gates. It's only long enough to rely on the killer making a mistake and going to the wrong door first.
I would MUCH rather the hatch just close and not trigger the EGC than what is going on in game currently.
The EGC triggering on a closed hatch is a way for top tier killers to say, "ehh, I don't feel like using my searching skills against this last stealthy survivor, who may or may not outwit me and finish all the gens. I'll just put them in a position, just like what long loops do to me, where he/she has basically one option on how to proceed."
I don't consider that much fun at all.
I thought the "a freshly powered gen will reopen a closed hatch!" notion was a good idea. Whoever scrapped that one?
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It really shouldn't be a "who can stare at the other for longer...first" contest.
If a survivor sees Ghostface and knows exactly where the killer is, the killer should not be able to stalk that survivor and fudge the idea behind the killer by abusing a timer.
I would be much happier if Ghostface simply wasn't able to mark that specific survivor for a short duration rather than being kicked out of his power.
I think the stalk meter should deplete if not fully charged while simultaneously increasing base stalking speed and removing the more powerful stalking speed add-ons, which were a result of a bad design choice to draw from Myer's add-ons.
Marking a survivor should not only expose the survivor, but also apply Blindness and the Hindered effect so that Ghostface can mark a survivor for a more strategic purpose than just downing the survivor. Personally, I would appreciate it if a marked survivor completed altruistic actions 20% slower than a survivor who's not marked.
It just seems to me that the developers were trying something new, didn't push their creative agenda enough, got backlash from the community, were forced into a less than ideal decision due to time constraints (roadmap and such), and ended up defaulting on an older, "tried and true" ideology for Ghostface's power.
Marketing probably wouldn't agree with me, but I would find it much more beneficial to be releasing less killers a year with greater detail and care put into them than having killers come out with unwanted characteristics that get patched later on (eg. the stalking add-ons for Ghostface).
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/73462/bring-back-down-vote
It was an easy way of saying "I don't like you or your opinions and I'm petty so I'm going to downvote your posts no matter the content."
And that's why we can't have nice things.
So, even though I'm on this thread, I went for the downvote button to show you I disagreed with your statement even though I have no idea who you are, and then realized it wasn't there. So I wrote this post just to tell you I disagreed with your thought. Did I have something to add that someone else hasn't already added? No. But I wanted people who passed by your comment to know that someone disagreed without having to read the entire conversation that has been happening above. That should be simple and easy. Could I do so? No. So I made this post to remind the moderators that it's stupid not to have a dissent button especially when it doesn't affect the post and only serves to expedite simple conversations.
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Well, if survivors who have brains are doing the gens, they will always consider doing the gens around the basement first. I think survivor ADAPTIVE PLANNING outside of comms should be the second objective, should be more rewarding, and yield bloodpoints in and of itself.
The converse should also be less easy to achieve.
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@AStupidMonkeyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/558231#Comment_558231
@Kind_Lemon The Nurse has a normal lunge now. After she blinks, she gets the same 3 step lunge as every killer from a couple of updates ago. I never see hit registering that looks funny unless the ping is over 90. Then it starts getting a little weird. I've been downed 10 steps away from the killer but that's because of desync from the actual host' connection. Also, if you're playing past 90 ping, the hits are gonna look weird because the host always goes first through packets. By the time it reaches survivors side, it looks like you randomly got his 5-7 steps away but in reality, you were already hit, it just took awhile for the game to let you know. Once servers are up, you'll see the difference.
What I mean is that my graphics are so low that because of how the Nurse reappears, she appears on top of me in the fatigued state after her red glow is pointing in the opposite direction (if she hits me) with no warning whatsoever. My explanation is convoluted, but I'll upload video when I can. However, I don't think dedicated servers will solve the issue of lunge animations not seeming to connect properly. I think it will exacerbate the issue.
And, yes, every* killer has the same lunge (which is unfortunate imo for reasons too long for this).
*save Mike
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@AStupidMonkeyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/558210#Comment_558210
@Kind_Lemon All the devs have to say is this. If you see red (the red stain behind you without looking behind you), you're in the hit detection range and the HIT will DEFINITELY hit. The hit detection is 3 steps away. When you lunge, you close the gap VERY quickly. Also, survivors hit boxes are slightly wider and taller than the actual models. That's true even in Call Of Duty. It's rectangles. It's not easy to change it without causing a LOT of issues and with games like this, too small of a hit box makes a hit impossible in certain circumstances. Just like how killer slows down drastically by barely touching a wall or how you can get stopped altogether when going into certain basements while carrying someone or trying to chainsaw down a steep basement. It all has hit boxes. (Edit: My favorite hit box. If you play a tall killer like Trapper or Billy and walk under the crane, you actually SLOW down drastically without realizing it. You also CANNOT chainsaw someone under the crane. It makes you hit the crane.)
@AStupidMonkeyy The hit-boxes in DbD for survivors are silo-shaped. They extend significantly above the heads but are slightly thinner than the distance between the hands of the survivors when in the in-game idle animation. The face protrudes from the hit-box, and this is more true for male survivors. When in the red stain, the hit detection zone will register a hit, yes. The lunge allows the killer to cover the distance at a speedy pace to have everything line up as it should.
Issues arise when 2 things happen:
1) The killer hits a survivor at the end of the lunge. The killer is further away from the survivor at the hit registration time than if the killer hits a survivor at the beginning of a lunge. This makes things look strange.
2) There is a physical barrier between the killer's body and the survivor's body. This occurs at all vault spots, Haddonfield fences, and maybe one other place. The hit detection zone reaches past the obstacle, but the game can't move the killer to make the weapon visually connect. Therefore, it just looks like the killer misses and yet the survivor still loses a health state. If there were an animation for killers hitting survivors over obstacles that involved leaning over the obstacle, none of us would be having this conversation. It's the consequence of having a hit detection zone larger than the weapon reach and having the visual confirmation of hits be reliant on moving the killer to the survivor.
It's been made worse with the recent changes to lunge animations, which speed up killers on successful hits to reach the target. It honestly looks like The Nurse teleports 2 meters after her blink is over when she hits me. Additionally, it has resulted in too many instances of me teleporting back into the weapon if I'm being downed on the other side of a window. However, I digress.
There's nothing wrong with using hit-boxes that don't line up with the survivor's model. There's almost nothing wrong with having a hit-detection zone that doesn't follow the weapon swing animation. However, it becomes bad design when a player can hit another player over an obstacle but not have any animations register that properly because the hit detection zone is larger than the weapon reach.
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@AStupidMonkeyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/558197#Comment_558197
@Kind_Lemon That's the problem. You are basing it off of the weapon. The weapon is just a skin. It's there to make everything look nice. A killer lunges but its the hit detection detecting the hit box that matters. You most definitely was close enough to get hit. I have plenty of videos of me missing window swings because I was too early. You were already in the hit zone during the vault. It was just making the animation look nice.
Yes, and the issue is that the animation looked horrendous. It's the weapon, the visual representation of the hit detection zone, that we as humans base our judgement on whether something should have hit or not. If it doesn't look like it did, and the hit detection zone says otherwise, then of course the players are going to complain, because again, we cannot see the hit detection zone, we don't have a solid idea of what it looks like (generic cone shape), and any infinitesimally small meeting of the two near the broad part of the cone results in a registered hit regardless of anything else.
In short, we are talking about the same problem. I am calling it a problem, and you are not.
@AStupidMonkeyy @ashtongh
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@Ashtongh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/545421#Comment_545421
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/653/LD6KT6XJJJ2P.png
Look at that distance from the window
Sure he's "close", but in all due fairness, the weapon shouldn't hit him.
To explain the picture, the light blue outline is where Quentin's hit-box is, roughly (it's taller in reality, but that doesn't matter for this).
The red loops identify the indicator that he's been hit at this precise moment and the position of the weapon. From the tip of the weapon to Quentin's right arm is essentially twice the length of Ghostface's arm.
The orange scribbles are where the arm is in the animation when the hit registered and where the arm (slightly extended) should be in the animation when the hit registers.
The darker blue outline is an estimation of where his hitbox might have been moments ago, considering he was in an animation. You'll notice that the weapon doesn't actually sink into Quentin at all.
The hit detection zone is not included because I don't know what that looks like, but it must be significantly larger than the length of Ghostface's arm. After all, the devs stated that they had to elongate Freddy's claws tremendously when lunging just so that the weapon could connect with a survivor.
TLDR; Why do the developers not consider the length of the character's arm EVERY TIME when making new killers? The lunge animations look bad and don't match up with the game's hit registration code.
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@Mushwin said:
well maybe we should make banners and protest to have the scarecrows :)
Let's march on Behavior!
...SoonTM
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@Redd said:
For better or worse, survivors have no one but themselves to blame for the absolute NEED to tunnel someone out of the game as fast as possible. It's the classic death efficiency problem. If someone doesn't die ASAP, then a good team of survivors will have the gens done in less than 4 minutes. And you cannot play assuming the survivors suck, you have to assume they are a good team. As soon as you get one out of the game though, your life is 10x easier and significantly less stressful.
You don't like this simple fact at higher ranks? Ask the devs to nerf gen rush so killers have the time to be nice to people.
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Note, I play survivor too. I'm just as guilty as everyone else of gen rushing, and I don't blame any of the players for the current game's state. I just think it's as ridiculous to complain about tunneling as it is to complain about gen rush, and it's the devs people should be complaining at, not other players.
Tunneling and/or shrinking the zone of play is the easiest (N.B. there are exceptions) way for any killer to get someone out of the game and reduce the pressure that takes away strategy, feelings of power, and horror.
It's not the survivors' fault that the developerss structured their game this way.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/552285#Comment_552285
You conveniently forgot NOED, can like totally change the game from all 4 escaping to a 4K. DS could never do that, it just buys a few extra seconds for one survivor!
It used to be able to turn a 4k into a bully fest. I don't feel bad for the Wraith to whom I did it. It was satisfying.
It no longer can do that, so I think a talk (I'm not into the whole insta-nerf thing) is needed about other perks that affect the game so much and the game mechanics behind them (NOED, Ruin, M&A, Adrenaline) and survivor instaheals.
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I'm just throwing in 2 additional things you haven't mentioned:
- Different sized hitboxes between killers and survivors
- No set-up required before using a pallet
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/537627#Comment_537627
You could contact support, but I can't guarantee that they'll be able to provide a refund for that.
Though on a personal note, as someone who used to play stealthy all the time, that's not stealth. Stealth is about not being seen, not being seen and hoping they don't see you because your clothes are dark enough. I'd recommend breaking LOS and using sharp corners to throw them off momentarily, possibly throwing Q&Q into the mix.
I would agree in the event of non-injured survivors. Good killers, when not contesting generators, will be able to follow sounds and blood when a survivor is injured to the point where the only thing left to do is loop.
Clothes should certainly not be a "let's sit here for a while in front of the killer and hope I'm not seen." They should be a "the colors will blend in momentarily and allow me to slip around a corner unnoticed." Of course, bright outfits not being included. However, the luster and sheen on every character is so much greater than that on the environment that slipping around LOS blockers unnoticed is essentially not possible. The only exceptions are the fire barrels. Those are true, mid-chase stealth mechanics.
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I only have 4 maps even after about 100 bloodwebs. That's why I don't regularly use them. Additionally, it's a waste of time for me to be running around reading a map and looking for totems when I could be trying to prevent my team from three genning themselves or I could be preventing a generator a killer really doesn't want done from regressing.
You seem to think it's so easy to do anything but gens or be chased. With no coordination on comms, that kind of extra stuff is a nightmare to the chances of any survivor escaping through the exit gates.
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I like the grass better and the lack of stuttering at the end of the survivor-hit speed bust. That's all.
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@nichtRoxas Don't worry, it's not latency. It's the devs trying to make lunges that shouldn't hit, but do, look like they hit. That includes teleporting you back into their weapon. Actually, wait. DO worry.
It happens to me frequently, and most noticeably when I'm being downed through a window. I'm pretty sure it looks worse when you're playing a female character (which I do) because of the smaller model.
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Escaping a chase unscathed without the killer just getting bored is nigh impossible if the killer isn't being a potato or trying to get as many points out of the match as possible.
And almost nobody finds that to be a problem.
WHY?????
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15k is what I expect from myself. That number is lowered when the killer is A) tunnely/campy B) too efficient at chases and still complains about survivors having too many opportunities to escape C) just bad at the game , and that number is raised when my teammates are really good.
As killer, anything below ~22 is a bad game, regardless if all the survivors die and get ~9k.
That's one reason why queue times are wonky (other than the survivor skill cap being much higher than the generic killer skill cap).
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@anarchy753 said:
Because standing directly in front of the killer and still being basically invisible isn't playing the game.
It isn't interactive for either player, it's just a really cheap way to avoid having to get into chases which are meant to be the bulk of the game.
Like Peanits said, there's a difference between playing stealthily, and using abusively dark outfits to avoid participating.
@anarchy753 "It's an opinion-a valid one- but..." still an opinion (Mcote). This quote is made for people like you who assume that chases "are meant to be the bulk of the game" and not strategy, stealth, and escaping. Each to their own, I guess.
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I would rather Resilience be 6/9/12% when injured and 9/12/15% when Mangled and injured.
12% additional speed when vaulting windows is only ~.05 seconds shaved off, and 15% is still only ~.07 seconds shaved off.
Also, if a developer reads this, please consider making Spine Chill affect Vaulting too.
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The devs have decided to make it incredibly difficult to let the game know that you are looking at Ghostface. The detection zone is amazingly short and thin because apparently the only way to amend the bad concept for dispelling his power was to make it frustrating to do so.
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Not to mention how clear everything is at a moderate distance. If you look at the older game engine, survivors can't be immediately seen if they twitch 32 meters away unlike today.
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@MisterTIBS said:
Alternatively, if the killer closes the hatch then make the gens available again - if the survivor gets a gen done, hatch re-opens. This way, killer patrolling the gates only leaves himself open to said gen being done and hatch escape a possibility (without need for a key.)
This is obviously what the egc after hatch closing should be. idk why it's not.
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I (almost) always die against The Plague because I have a terrible time positioning myself. It's already hard enough doing stealth stuff around her when sick, not to mention she renders any medkits worthless. Therefore, I would appreciate changes that did not make it harder to do the things I have already mentioned.
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There are three things that I can think of rn that make it difficult to balance this game around the better players, and those are:
1) survivor hitbox abusing through looping
2) how hook states work
3) and perhaps the most important thing: USING THE S KEY AS A SURVIVOR AND TURNING THE CAMERA AROUND.
When these are not addressed, you can expect that the developers will never be able to see what they need to do to balance the game around high skill players.
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Yeah, these kinds of things go unnoticed way too often. I've posted about mislabeling and incorrect wording on the website and in the game in addition to making very valid statements and claims about why the Exposed status effect should be renamed the Vulnerable status effect, but either the devs don't notice that things are making them seem not thorough and/or unprofessional or they don't care. 😑
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I mean, it's a shame there's only three volumes to injured survivor sounds and the frequency at which they happen.
There are Iron will & not being near the killer,
There are lockers,
And then there's Stridor.
There is no active control to temporarily prevent a survivor from whining when the killer is nearby, as unfortunate as that may be, and that's something I rather the devs work on than a new chapter.
(hashtag) givesurvivorsmoreagency
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Byeeee <3 We'll miss you! I wish you the best in your life, wherever it takes you.
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@indieeden7 said:
Do you mean the theme for ghostface?
No? I don't have the Ghostface dlc, so I don't know what it sounds like. When you enter the main menu after playing matches as killer and/or survivor, the music is a modified, slower "Happy Birthday" tune.
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cough @developers
We've seen some updates to the corn maps recently (one-of-a-kind walls are now gone), ...so scarecrow bombs when?
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OMG!!! That's my favorite addon pair too! <3
Regarding your post, the thing every survivor can do almost nothing against is predict exactly where The Nurse will end up, which was different prior to the blink changes. In order to make what is, in my opinion, the most important change to The Nurse's power, we need to look at two aspects of how The Nurse was first realized on live servers.
A) Her lethal blink animation
B) Her three base blinks
The lethal blink animation is perhaps the most important thing to understand about why survivors can have such a hard time going against The Nurse. To summarize, The Nurse had at one point a lunge animation that would 100% hit a survivor upon the Nurse's reappearance and clicking of m1. This lunge animation was not as fast as the animations for close hits currently. It was a special animation that would position The Nurse's weapon dramatically before bringing it down upon a survivor even if the survivor had dropped a pallet between the weapon and himself/herself in the meantime.
The Nurse could not near instantaneously enter cooldown after pressing the attack button and getting a successful attack, which is what we have today. It's visually worse today compared to then, and that makes it less scary in this "horror" game that we play. This is not the most important change, but it provides an example of why visuals matter.
When the pumpkin head customization came out, it was pretty clear that the eyes and smoke from the pumpkin head would appear before the rest of The Nurse. The Nurse currently has collision, the ability to attack, and the ability to chain blink before appearing. That gives very little time for survivors to react to an extremely variable blink reappearance location. This is why survivors can have difficulty playing against The Nurse. If balance changes are to be made to the Nurse, it needs to be in regards to her reappearance visuals and the feedback that gives survivors. Everything else comes after that.
The issue of her multiple blinks is not as important as the issue addressed above. Every additional blink The Nurse makes allows her to fine tune her movements and reduce the error for a potential missed attack. That means that the killer who can ignore almost any defense survivors have can prevent herself from missing any attack she makes.
In the spotlight for The Nurse, it was evident that the player playing the Nurse was not blinking the potential maximum distance every blink. Each chain blink was short, and only allowed her to further her movements in one direction. Since the addons for more chain blinks all nearly have decreased range attached to them, it is my understanding that chain blinks were merely a way to get more distance out of her power but with the ability to stop before using all the potential distance. Range addons had decreased accuracy, so it was evident that the developers thought a blink from across the map should not be able to hit a survivor spot on. The Nurse found much more use in her power than in her 115% movement speed, so the devs took that away, and players became more adept at using her blinks more and more precisely. Obviously, the issue of distance and accuracy of blinks should be addressed second, but it does not compare in urgency to the issue of little visual cues to survivors when The Nurse reappears from her blinks.
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@Crazewtboy said:
What exactly did they change? I have seen people talking about it but whenever I play I don't seem to feel a difference. Can anyone explain?
If you're not an expert survivor vault mindgamer, then you probably won't notice the changes. Previously, a survivor could wait until the very last second to fast vault if the survivor had met all the conditions before arriving at a window. However, if a survivor runs at a window with the proper momentum and angle currently, the survivor is guaranteed a medium vault if the survivor waits until they are touching the window to see what the killer is going to do.
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The NOED change that occurred was stupid. End of story.
If the first two tiers needed to have the Exposed status effect (which they didn't), then the developers should have changed the perk so that instead of the speed changing by tier, the number of totems required to be left on the map is decreased every tier eg. tier one requires at least three totems, tier two requires two, etc. Additionally, the decision to remove the reduced successful attack cooldown was the most disheartening change I've seen happen to this game other than the gifting of the Exposed status effect to tier one Devour Hope. I'll never forgive the developers for that one...
...but back to NOED. What would have been a better choice would have been to increase the speeds of tier one and tier two and remove their hex totem status. On the third tier, the Exposed status effect is then tied to a totem while the other two benefits are not.
It also would have made sense if the developers were to change the NOED totem so as to make more noise than other totems, to compensate for solo survivors and prepare for (hopefully) even better totem spawn locations.
And yes, I think Head On would be better suited for a timer independent from Exhaustion.
Head On + Sprint Burst is only slightly more effective (but less time efficient) than a pallet stun + Sprint Burst.
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I'm curious if anyone knows the answer to this, but with all 4 survivors near each other, each having vigil and head on, is it possible to almost stun lock a killer on one of those red forest tiles with all the lockers considering it would be an 80% reduction on a 40 second cooldown. That's 8 seconds of no head on and ~4 seconds to get in the locker and wait out the activation timer. Each survivor only has nine seconds of stun time before the killer is free to move, however. Do these perks work like this?
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@Lemming said:
If the rarity of the perk actually had an impact on the Bloodweb, for example if you had green perks available they would appear in place of a green add on or item and wouldn't cause the entity just for taking it, it would allow the devs to target the player base with what they consider less used or baseline perks. It's a pity they don't do that, and so we have randomly different colors of perks for no good reason.
Technically, perks can only spawn on nodes of that rarity, so there is some direction about what perks can spawn in a bloodweb, but it would be nice if common perks were brought back and did not have the same properties when obtained on the bloodweb as perks of other rarities (does not trigger the other perk being eaten).
Still, the forum icon for Hex: The Third Seal should be the color it is in game regardless unless all perks get different color variants.
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Surprisingly, most people (from my experience) leave by using the in-game dc button. No one's ever going to completely solve salty dc's, but changes like these make it harder and more tedious to dc than wait it out.
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@List_of_concerns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/493859#Comment_493859
I've included a TLDR.
"It's already hard enough for solo survivors to know when to leave their gens and go save even with the timer. "
It shouldn't be difficult for survivors to judge when they should leave their generator (in the live version) and go save. Any time a survivor is currently on a hook, the amount of time that is left, is quite accurately shown via the timer/progression bar. Being able to tell time isn't a requirement to play Dead by Daylight. There are many icons that will appear or disappear to let you know something has happened. You don't need a timer, in my opinion. Also, there are Notifications and Auras (Dying State) that will allow you to play in very similar fashion to the way we play now (live version).
"Why would you suggest things to make the solo survivor experience even worse?? It's incredibly punishing if a survivor is less than 3-hooked, especially in stealth games."
You've answered your own question. In my opinion, it often times feels punishing if a survivor is less than 3-hooked due to camping. It feels especially unfair if it were based on the results of a killer abusing the timers to camp.
"Not having that timer would severely increase the detestable gap between solo and swf players."
People seem to keep defending their ideas and opinions based on the current perceived balance for the Survive With Friends mode (and not based on the majority of players that are playing the Solo mode). Also, name dropping Survive With Friends doesn't mean the developers should stop making any changes to Dead by Daylight. I don't understand this logic. In my opinion, Survive With Friends isn't unbalanced because of game design.
The Survive With Friends game mode can be and/or is being abused by players who choose to use live (real time) voice communication programs to discuss current match information in Dead by Daylight. Allowing third party software that can be used to communicate with your voice and your group (in real time) is the only thing that makes Survive With Friends unbalanced. If you couldn't use any third party software, the forms of communication built into the game are limited to emotes, gestures and crouching repeatedly. You might be able to signal someone with a flashlight too.
Discord and similar programs could be removed from the allowed programs list (whitelist) on Easy Anti-Cheat. When it comes to player population, I feel that removing voice communication programs would do more harm than good. For example, just because you're using a voice communication program, it doesn't mean you're using that program to discuss Dead by Daylight. Eventually, players interested in abusing Survive With Friends would probably resort to using the integrated Steam Voice if it were the only voice comm still allowed.
This is my current stance on the Survive With Friends game mode (and I wish I knew how to clip it to every post I make going forward): I don't hate the Survive With Friends mode. I don't want less people to play Dead by Daylight just because they can't play with their friends or acquaintances any longer.
TLDR; I didn't intend to give you a ridiculously long response, but I hope you still take the time to read it. I just wanted to be absolutely clear on the topic of Survive With Friends as it pertains to making future balance changes. I don't think Survive With Friends should motivate or prevent balance changes. If it's balanced for one, it's balanced for all.
Thanks for the reply.
Sorry, this post was more directed @Huntar than anyone else. I say solo survivors have a hard time judging the situation to see if they should save because often times nobody knows what anyone else is doing especially if no one has Bond or Empathy. Are other people going for the save? Are we trying to finish the last generator before saving? What's the plan? I've had too many games where survivors don't have that awareness, can't plan, rush in for the save just before the survivor on the hook reaches second state, only to have a killer return and deny the save.
I agree that killers should not see the progression of the hook timer, just like not seeing the progression of the Deep Wounds timer, but solo survivors need that information. Otherwise, less last second solo saves would happen to prevent the two or one hook scenarios.
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Adding content to my original post: Is it possible to have the Leave Match button also close down the game so that if there really is an emergency, there are less buttons to click through before the application closes?
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@ReikoMori said:
You can't be serious.
Now if they change the map visibility then more than just killers are going to suffer. You're not even taking players with poor eye into account. Plenty of players are making it out of gates currently. You have plenty of time if you learn how to work the environment we have to your advantage like the others who are getting out just fine.
If you're talking to me about bad eyesight, don't. I have intense corn vision. I think it's stupid for the atmosphere of a horror game like this one to have clear lines of sight everywhere there's an open field. A lesser clear render distance would solve some of the issues regarding The Nurse's overwhelming strength at a distance and would also make the game look better as a whole.
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What have you done to Jenner's Last Breath? 😱
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😧 It's already hard enough for solo survivors to know when to leave their gens and go save even with the timer. Why would you suggest things to make the solo survivor experience even worse?? It's incredibly punishing if a survivor is less than 3-hooked, especially in stealth games. Not having that timer would severely increase the detestable gap between solo and swf players.
Edit: Comms SWF
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With crow-bomb mechanics, please?
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A joint first: Trapper and Freddy.
Second: Spirit
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Well, it's a matter of too clear map visibility from far away that you are addressing. It's a pretty important balance issue that gets no attention whatsoever.
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@anarchy753 said:
Saboutage is just a really terrible mechanic overall. It really doesn't fit the whole point of the game.
If you make it strong, it just breaks the game. What's the point in playing killer if every time you win a chase you just have to drop the survivor because a survivor pressed M1 and prevents your objective. It would be like if a killer kicked you gen it just wouldn't be able to be worked on for 4 minutes.
That's why it feels so mediocre, because it HAS to or it's just a way to permanently deny the killer's objective, progression and points.
The way people talk here they seem to think it's reasonable to just have a mechanic that takes away all the hooks on huge sections of the map so they become unkillable and and can ######### with the killer however they like and there's no chance they'll ever be hooked, just for M1ing at like 5 hooks for 20 seconds each.
@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487728#Comment_487728
Well the reason hooks repair themselves from sabo is because survivors brought the game to its knees when sabo was permanent. The slugging concept was invented as a response to the fact you couldn't do anything else with survivors at that point. We used to dread playing a trial and finding broken hooks back then. Honestly, it is a playstyle that hasn't aged well because it is an all or nothing strategy. Everyone has to commit to 99% hooks or the attempt is wasted.
Now it takes a whole team picking a corner with the most gens constantly cycling between hooks and gens. Even then if one or two of you get slugged then the strat is dead in the water.
The concept behind Sabotage completely fits into the game. It's a way in a game where the killers and the maps decide where survivors must go to be altruistic for a survivor to push back and challenge a killer's authority. Survivors have no other means to change the location of interaction between killers and survivors other than Sprint Burst (which is why it was so popular), and calculated generator completion. The objectives are stationary, and the killer has far more liberty to decide where to hook survivors than do survivors which gens to complete. However, because of extended chases, survivors can often prevent a killer from having this core ability.
Sabotage was a fine idea but was not changed properly along with the other aspects of the game. Window looping? Entity blockers. Maybe not the best solution, but it works. The tactic is still useable but not abusable. However, when the developers realized the downfall of sabotage (it led to killers not having anywhere to hook survivors), they decided to remove the entire mechanic by pretending that sabotaged hooks never were sabotaged. The developers could have made it so that a hook could not be sabotaged if there was no other hook within X meters or that hooks required manual attention from killers to respawn. None of that happened, and that's why we are here today with an extremely unsatisfactory sabotage mechanic.
Don't disregard sabotage as a bad idea, think of the implementations and fixes as bad ideas.
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Not every SWF is gamebreaking, but when a whole portion of the game devoted to misinformation and obstacles to teamwork and cooperation can be circumnavigated, it's not the best thing for the health and heart of the original game. It becomes something else:
Rage and ridicule simulator.
...But that's only one possibility.
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It's not so much that there are too many hooks, it's that
1) sabotaging and planning for sabotage takes too much time in a solo match compared to rushing generators.
2) There are not enough "bad" hook locations for survivors to force killers to use through sabotage
3) Killers' carrying speeds are too fast and the time to wiggle out is too short, resulting in slugging or pitiful returns in terms of wasted killer time compared to the time spent sabotaging.
4) All hooks respawn no matter their location or positioning as a band-aid fix to a broken mechanic. This is the real **** you to survivors.
5) Hook max and min limits are terrible. Sometimes only one hook will spawn on an entire side of the map while the other side is chock-full.
Sabotaging should result in forcing a killer into playing on a less favorable part of the map and cause the killer to waste more time in the carry and hook phases. It should not be giving survivors more chances to free themselves and it should not incite slugging because the dying state is minimal in design.
In other words: AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!