KateMain86
KateMain86
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@Azshhh said:
I don't get what's weird about it, to me her torso looks properly proportioned now instead of long af
I think this has happened before in the past when Kate got other new cosmetics. I guess its a graphical issue linked to some of her cosmetics. There is nothing properly proportioned about it at all. She looks very unappealing in several cosmetics now and I hope they get it fixed soon. I won't be purchasing anything new for her that looks like this until its fixed. I also forgot to mention you can see her skin go through the upper part of her shorts at certain angels now which shows its a graphical issue.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
So any other evidence that shows that the game is survivor sided should be ignored but just cause one video from otz which the stats he put out needs to be put into question and scott who barely plays killer now.
Not to mention both do not have the most recent patch and both are being paid to play this game so they have more time than most.
Yea but when the best argument is "SWF groups so toxic" when it comes to killers trying to make the argument that its not in their favor, thats not really evidence. In fact its just annoying at this point that SWF complaints are literally their best argument as to why they think its not in their favor. I've been solo queing all day to use up these envelopes before the event is over. Guess how many SWF teams I saw today? 1... and everyone died.
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The cosmetics mentioned still look the way they do in the 2nd screenshot. Any idea when they'll be fixed? Half the stuff I have for Kate now is just collecting dust.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792265#Comment_2792265
This trickster thought it would be funny to spam knives on hooked survivors, reload them from a nearby locker and then do it again and again until they die.
Whining that the Killer BM'd. This is the exact same as Killers whining about Survivors twerking in the exit gates. Suck it up.
the killer thought it would be funny to watch me crawl all the way across the map to the open door just to pick me up at it and throw me on the hook and then proceed to spam throw their knives at me like they did the other survivor
Whining that the Killer BM'd. Same as Killers whining Survivors twerk behind pallets or at the exit gates.
Killers that do this in game shouldn't be allowed to play it. A line has to be drawn.
Oh yes; Killers hurting Survivors feelings MUST be banned! Because Survivors demand it!
Spam throwing knives on hooked survivors who can do nothing is toxic
Watching survivors crawl to a door a mile away just to hook them when they get there and spam throw knives on them is toxic.
No more toxic than Survivors twerking for no reason. Can we ban Survivors for clicky-clicky flashlights? That's toxic, too!
Or does this only work when Survivors feel bad?
They could've picked me up long before that but decided to waste my time and hold the game hostage knowing my only other option was to disconnect
Except OP could still die, so 'hold the game hostage' was usual Survivor main truth-bending to demand Killers get punished. Being toxic is not bannable, holding the game hostage is, so OP claims it's something worse to scream for punishments.
Killers that do things like this should be banned from the game.
Once again; demanding Killers be banned for hurting their feelings. Because Survivors demand second-class Killers be proper little servants and never anger their overlords. And never win. And never pick certain Killers or perks.
Basically 'Don't make Survivors unhappy, for they shall call for your banishment.'
So in what way was OP not whining? Because it all looks like whining to me.
A killer spam hitting you on the hook and making you crawl across the map just to hook you anyway and still spam hitting you on the hook is insanely more toxic than anything a survivor can do to a killer. No, a survivor bouncing up and down and clicking a flash light is nowhere near as toxic. You want to try to make that argument, but it simply isn't one. Killers can be and often are way more toxic to survivors than they are to killers.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792255#Comment_2792255
There was 0 whataboutism. I was saying the OP was whining because they felt bad for losing & decided the Killer should be punished via 'He BM'd me!' excuses.
I would've said the same thing had I escaped. This isn't about winning or losing. I have always said often times some of my more fun matches are those where I don't even escape. What matters is the play style of the players.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Killer killed, how they achieve their fun doing it is their agency as a player.
Repeatedly Hitting a hooked survivor is usually an attempt to get them to suicide early and gain a pressure advantage.
Yea... and its my opinion its them usually being a toxic piece of... well I'm sure you get the idea.
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@AngyKiller said:
Rofl. You could still die, so the game was not being held hostage.
Also; oh no, it hurt your feelings to be hit on the hook! It's almost like Survivors whine that anything is a BM because losing hurt their feelings, then demand Killers be punished for making the sad feels. 😥
This is why the conversation of the toxicity of this game is always happening. You completely missed or flat out ignored the point. The killer didn't have to do these things. I didn't do anything to this killer and from what I saw no one else did either. They were being toxic for the sake of being toxic. That is the problem. We're not talking about a momentary reaction to something like being hit on the hook one time, something I never complain about. If they sit there and do it 50 times however then yes I have a problem. Things like that make players have a negative opinion about this game. If players were just more wholesome and didn't resort to toxic playstyles this game would be so much better.
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@Reshy said:
Let me guess, Dead Hard, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable; and the killer got tilted that you were in a SWF with your four friends also running those same perks and decided one of you are going to die.
Nope. Every word you said was wrong. I was playing solo and wasn't using any of those perks you mentioned. Also as I said (if you would've actually read the post) the killer didn't do this to just me, and I wasn't the only survivor that died. In fact only 1 made it out if I remember. Try again? Also besides all that, none of that would have made what the killer did Ok to do. They did this to be toxic and make the game as miserable as possible for the survivors. None of it had to happen. They didn't have to be toxic and do these things. The intent is in the action.
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Theres no reason to change a perk that is perfectly fine how it is ESPECIALLY after being a perk for so long that hardly anyone ever used because it was essentially useless. I never used Kate's perk. Boil ever felt more like a waste than a benefit but now with the right use of it can actually give you a good enough reason to use it. The perk is fine but I imagine they're going to nerf it because a few killer mains went on here and whined about it. God forbid survivors get anything decent that prevents the killer from feeling like the supreme power in every match.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2776814#Comment_2776814
Survivors being extremely bad doesn't really change what game is though.
Comparison should be between same skill level, so it's more like killer sided at low level and more survivor sided at high level.
Yea but you also have to realize the huge gap between "high level" and "low level" players. I wouldn't be surprised if its 1% to 99%. Like I've said, most survivor players can't loop and many don't even know how to look behind them when running. For anyone to suggest this is a survivor sided game is just blatantly wrong.
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Sometimes I wonder if people who say its a survivor sided game have played survivor for more than a few hours consecutively. DBD is nowhere near a survivor sided game. I'd say half the people that play survivor don't even know how to look behind them when running from the killer. As I've said before and will always say until it happens, this game needs to fundamentally change before any real balance can be had.
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@El_Gingero said:
The new Boil Over is fun for survivors and I’m going to use a lot, but as a killer I’m sort of miffed because I already have to play around DH, DS, BT, and Unbreakable, minimum, even if the survivors aren’t running any of them.
Now Boil Over is added to that list. That’s 5 perks that change how I play the game even when nobody has them equipped!
Will killer ever get tools like this?
Also I’ve noticed that although I’m a killer, I’m only excited to try out new survivor goodies with recent patches. Anyone else in the same boat?
Survivors have to play around every single killer perk in the game and people are complaining about boil over? Seriously? This is why survivors are ALWAYS left in the dust. The very moment we get something half way decent given to us killer mains rush to the forums and start whining about it. I swear its like were not allowed to have fun or have any kind of reasonable chance in this game.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2774276#Comment_2774276
If you only managed a single wiggle out you are not exploiting the perk correctly. Are you remembering to play offerings such as RPD? Are you remembering to get your team-mates to run supporting perks such as Breakout? Are you remembering to run to safe areas of maps then waiting to be downed?
Sounds like a very coordinated thing, that happens in coordinated groups, which I highly doubt is the experience of most players.
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Survivors start wiggling off a little more often than usual using a perk that I literally never saw anyone use and suddenly its like the end of days for killer mains. Maybe survivors wiggling off should happen more often because for the longest time killer mains sure haven't had much trouble hooking survivors before. The hooks spawn everywhere... its so bad the wiggling mechanic felt like a waste of time because unless you had support from breakout and protection hits you probably weren't wiggling free. I guess no matter where a survivor goes down at the killer has to have a guarantee hook unless someone flashlights or pallet stuns the killer. The new boil over actually gives some substance to the perk and the idea of wiggling off now. Its not as bad as people think it is either. I used it all day and only wiggled free one time from a killer that was new to the game. The perk is fine.
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First image is before the Lunar update and the 2nd is one taken after. Yep something definitely changed with them. Also sorry the 2nd image is darker. It was a different map.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/307298/a-few-kate-cosmetics-look-weird-now
I’m gonna check it out but I haven’t noticed anything different so far
It looks like all her shorts got moved up her waist a bit and the slit leather skirt. I haven't checked all of the cosmetics yet. They just look very unappealing now.
I'll see if I can post a before/after screenshot when I get into a match.
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@Aurelle said:
So I was messing around with Boil Over again and by chance we got Ironworks Of Misery. We were going against Pinhead and he only hooked me once. Every time I got into a chase with him I would run to the top floor of the Ironworks and let him down me there.
Every time he would pick me up, I would wiggle out of his grasp. Then at the end of the game it was only me and this Mikaela left. He downed Mikaela and kept going after me.
I kept hiding in a locker on the top floor of the Ironworks and he kept grabbing me out of it and trying to find a way to hook me. I wiggled out of his grasp 8 TIMES before he decided to slug me and hook the Mikaela. He left me slugged on the top floor and refused to pick me up after that.
I ended up bleeding out as he shook his head at me, which I don't blame him for. The extra 25% wiggle progress combined with extra wiggle speed from great skill checks make this perk a pain to deal with on maps like these.
Boil over is now a perk worth using. Its been nothing more than a dust collector since the day I got Kate. For most players its not going to be a huge game breaker but rather an opportunity to have a little better chance of escaping a down. Anyone who plays this game for even a little while knows that wiggling free from the killer simply doesn't happen that often. I've seen hooks sabo'd and it mean nothing when another one was right around the corner. Kate's perks have been largely useless for a long time. I never use them and hardly ever saw them used by other players. Its nice to see a buff to one of her perks and see it being used now.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2770470#Comment_2770470
Sure, sure. And I see the personal attack at the end. Must offend you that I picked apart everything you said with a few facts. Have fun crying about how 'powerless' Survivors are while they continue to get perks that give them 200 second chances, a perk that literally forces tunneling to apply pressure (Circle of OP), and then they cry about Killers tunneling and camping because Killers literally can't play any other way.
But yes, I 'must camp' because I countered you with facts. Have a good day. Don't bother replying; your opinion is clearly lies, BS, and personal attacks. Nothing worth reading.
I will bother replying because you have a problem with someone challenging your opinion that you consider to be undeniable truth. It clearly must be something worth reading since you are in fact reading them. Or maybe you're just reading the first 5 words and rushing to that reply button because a survivor main can't possibly be right in the face of your undeniable truths.
I have many matches where the killer does very well, even 4ks and never once camped or tunneled. The fact you keep saying "killers literally can't play any other way" proves you have a bias perspective on this and aren't interested in seeing someone challenge that. Sorry but you are wrong. Killers do not have to play that way. Thats just an easy go to argument you have because you can't accept the fact that killers can have good matches and not play like that.
There are killers in this game that do have too much power. The cenobite can literally do nothing and control the entire map if his box is left alone. If he guards the box, were screwed. The cannibal can instant down with no power build up at the press of a button. I've even seen him down an entire team in under 5 seconds. The shape has to build up to an instant down power. The cannibal has it the entire match. You probably have bad luck getting a lot of SWF teams that sweat it out for the win. Don't let that convince you that survivors have all the power.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2770376#Comment_2770376
you're not worth really arguing with if you honestly think killers have "almost 0 power."
And you're not worth arguing with if you think Survivors have no power. But here I go, because I can't let lies stand.
By the way, survivors literally have absolutely nothing that is as close to the same power level as what the killers can do
That's because there's 4 Survivors. The 1 Killer has to match 4 Survivors. That's how it works. No ONE Survivor perk should match ONE Killer, or you'd have FOUR Survivors, each able to 1v1 the Killer. Shocking, I know.
This kinda goes along the lines of that whole bias perspective so many people have here.
Why is it always the most biased people who claim everyone ELSE is biased? Oh right; because they are unable to see any other view point, so they can't comprehend being wrong.
The cannibal for example can press 1 button and down an entire team in 3 seconds if they are all near each other.
That's why you do this thing called 'thinking' and apply 'tactics' to do something called 'Spreading out' so the Bubba can't 'press 1 button and down the entire team'. Wow! Such tactics! Much thinking!
Tell me what can survivors do that can end a match that fast? Oh thats right, nothing.
Rofl. Tell me how many times a single Bubba power use downs all 4 Survivors. Let me guess; you're going to lie and say it happens 'all the time'? Because, if it does happen; Survivors were stupid.
Killers have all the power.
I'm going to list off a number of Killers whos powers Survivors can hard counter. Note; these are just POWERS that can be countered. So I'm avoiding such things as 'Juke the Nurse' since 'Juke' can apply to any Killer trying to hit you.:
- Trapper. Survivors can disarm his traps or literally avoid them.
- Wraith. Survivors can lightburn him with: Flashlights, firecrackers, flashbangs, blast mine.
- Hag. You can burn away her traps with a flashlight. Or stay alert and avoid them.
- Pig. You can remove the RBTs before they ever become a threat.
- Plague. Survivors control 50% of her power. If they never Cleanse, she has to use an add-on to get any blood puke. Also, if she never uses a fountain, and Survivors use up every fountain; she is FORCED to go into Blood Puke mode and ALL FOUNTAINS are cleared. Just so Survivors don't stay in 1-hit state. That's right; control of Plagues power goes Survivors first, the game mechanics second, THEN Plague.
- Ghostface. Survivors can counter his sneaking & stalking by...looking at him. With a 3rd person, 360-degree-view camera that can reveal him around walls he can't see around.
- Demogorgon. Survivors can rip apart his portals.
- Pyramid Head. Survivors don't trigger the goop if they don't sprint over it. They can also lose Tormented if they save someone from a Cage.
- Twins: Survivors can Kick The Baby.
- Nemesis. Survivors can Vaccinate, which means he can't easy damage them with tentacle without giving them a free speed-boost. They can also stun zombies with flashlights & pallets.
- Cenobite. Survivors can walk THROUGH his chains to free teammates, and can find The Box to stop chain hunts.
That's just Killers with a BUILT IN counter to their powers. So your 'Boo-hoo! Survivors have no power! Killers are biased!' tripe is proven false right here.
And that's not adding in the power of Survivor perks, of which they have 16 in a match, and they can ALL be second chance perks. Oh yeah; and SWF with voice comms.
So, going to keep lying about how 'powerless' Survivors are? Because the facts are right here.
If survivors couldn't do all those things to killers you wouldn't have survivors playing this game. This is your problem. You think survivors have power because they can interact with the killer in a few ways. Think about it. How do you think this game would be if survivors couldn't do those things you listed off? Do you not see how ridiculous your argument is? And yet you categorize this as killers having 0 power and try to call me a liar for saying otherwise. Well I'm not a liar. You disagreeing with me doesn't make me a liar. You get so offended when survivors point out legitimate facts as to why things need to improve for them that you come here and call me a liar trying to discredit my opinion. I wonder if you're the kind of killer that face camps someone for dropping a pallet on you. You're so irrational in your criticism of survivors.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2769452#Comment_2769452
Rofl. Pull my other leg. This mindset is why Survivor queue times are massive; Killers have almost 0 power and Survivors want to take what little remains.
Killer Powers are mostly controlled by Survivors.
Killer perks have Survivor input.
Survivors have multiple second chance perks.
Survivors get +50 perks when using SWF on voice comms.
Survivors have Circle of OP, negating any pressure if the Killer does not tunnel. But Survivors also whine and snivel and cry about how tunneling should be punished.
Survivors can pop gens in under 5 minutes.
But sure 'Poor Survivors have no power. Boo hoo. 😫'
I don't have massive queue times. Most of the time I'm in a match in under a minute with only certain times of the day where it may take a couple minutes. Anyway, you're not worth really arguing with if you honestly think killers have "almost 0 power." I mean I don't know what game you're playing but it isn't the same one I am. This kinda goes along the lines of that whole bias perspective so many people have here. To killers though if we pop 2 gens in the first 3 minutes of the match then oh no were soooo overpowered but when survivors get decimated against 1 perk killers then I guess we just suck at the game. By the way, survivors literally have absolutely nothing that is as close to the same power level as what the killers can do. The cannibal for example can press 1 button and down an entire team in 3 seconds if they are all near each other. Tell me what can survivors do that can end a match that fast? Oh thats right, nothing. Don't tell me killers have 0 power. Killers have all the power. Survivors get boon totems and killer mains think its the end of the world. Give me a break.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2769452#Comment_2769452
I'm pretty sure you are just bad at the game.
And this is why posting here is pointless because trolls like you who offer nothing of substantive value are here. The point was, which you blatantly ignored because you had nothing worth half a thought to offer, was that there is in fact a problem when a killer with a half a loadout, no offering and level 1 perks can so easily 4k a team that has a full loadout with level 3 perks and offerings. This is in fact a problem regardless of how you personally feel about it. No one who plays for 1900 hours is "bad at the game." Its extremely disingenuous for you to say something like that and imply that my experience in the game has not changed or improved after that much time. Do not try to discredit my opinion here because you personally think I'm just "bad at the game." My opinion matters and it is based off nearly 2000 hours experience playing the game. That does not mean I am going to be a god at the game. What it does mean is that I should not have matches where the situation I explained above happens.
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No I'm pretty sure you're wrong OP. Its not the killers who are struggling in this game, its the survivors by a long shot. I just had a 2 perk (both level 1) Oni 4k a full loadout team (4 perks plus items and boon totems). I have 1900 hours played in this game. I'm sorry but killers should not have as much power as they do in this game. They simply shouldn't. The amount of time it takes us to recover from the killer's attacks is ridiculous. Meanwhile the only thing killers have to recover from is missed attacks and the occasional pallet and blind. Its just not fair and the fun factor drops super fast when I get a match like this. And don't even think about telling me to "play better." Its a team game for survivors and after 1900 hours I'm not going to get any better than I currently am. If the game stays this difficult for survivors I have a feeling a lot more people are going to feel the same way.
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This seems like taking it way too far. To show the survivors who died to it during the match in the post match area would just be insulting and bullying in my opinion. I really do think it would push a lot of survivors away from the game. Moris are already unnecessary to win so to give this kind of incentive to do them with ghost face just feels like opening more doors for killers to be toxic with. Moris already cause tunneling sometimes given how you need 2 hooks to use the offering ones. If something like this were to go live I can already see every ghost face match being nothing but a tunnel happy killer wanting to shove pics of their moris in the survivor's faces after the match.
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@ZoeyLynnNyx said:
This always reminds me of those "discussions" where (usually) white people, try to argue that the N-Word is not Racist. Look, you might not think it is, but you also aren't the person who has centuries of painful history to be reminded of.
Do you argue with women whether or not randomly yelling "Hey Sexy!" (or many worse things) at them is sexual harassment? Do you argue with disabled people, using R*tard or a ton of other words isn't harmful, cause it might not have been the original intention of that word? Do you argue with non-white people, that they aren't allowed to see any kind of racial slurs are harmful, if there is any kind of chance, that the person using them didn't mean it? We can continue this with all kinds of marginalized folk, but I think you get the point.
Yes, a white person can have their opinions on racism discussions. We might also have useful things to add at times. But simply said: We are not the ones to decide if something is racist or not. Going "but not all black people think it's racist" has (with very rare exceptions) nothing to do with caring about those peoples opinions, but is about weaponizing their voices to support YOUR point.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750317#Comment_2750317
And on the whole "sounds like a dictator to me."-thing: On the off-chance that this is not a bad faith argument, but you honestly mean it: Please look up the Tolerance Paradox. "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance."
Saying that not all black people think its racist or that they all don't think alike is a fact. Its not weaponizing anything. I've said before that the definition of racism is changing in the minds of people everyday. If were now at a point that we can't discern fiction from reality and allow the actions of a few trolls to cause so much outrage over a freaking cosmetic of a fictional character then we really have stretched the meaning of the word. Had the people who did harass others with the cosmetic not did those things would we even be talking about this right now? I highly doubt it. I didn't even know these cosmetics existed before the news of their removal happened and never once saw them in game in a match in the almost 2000 hours I have played as survivor. I never heard anyone complain about them until now or mention them in any way since I started playing the game. That is why this whole thing feels like a big overreaction and when things like this do happen it will cause concern and spark a lot of conversation.
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Moris are already a super unique thing to killers and survivors get nothing like it at all. Adding more would further build that "killer favoritism" mentality without also giving something just as unique to the survivors. It has been suggested here before to allow a way for survivors to kill the killer. Given theres 4 survivors it would require a team effort to pull off though I also think it would be super cool for each survivor to have a unique animation they could do against the killer. By all means though, give the killer more moris if they want it, but don't leave the survivors out. Survivor mains need more things they can do in the game.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749354#Comment_2749354
Actually, regarding Fictional and IRL context, Ebony Mori's initially allowed Killers to Mori a Survivor without having to Hook them even once. Which fits with the Fictional context of DBD and was only really a problem for players that were not able to suspend their disbelief and find fun in the atmosphere of the game. Do you think it was a good change to nerf that?
Absolutely. That was a game mechanic that heavily favored the killer over the survivor. Smartface is a cosmetic, not an in game mechanic.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749354#Comment_2749354
Fictional context matter too, I agree, but it takes a backseat to IRL context. Especially in a multiplayer game where you're not the one in control of what other people do.
It takes a backseat to IRL context if an individual lets it. The cosmetic itself is not intrinsically racist and neither does it have a backseat connection to blackface. Its a cosmetic of Claudette's face. Aren't we all human? Aren't all the survivors in DBD human in their fictional setting too? Why does everything in recent time have to be so race related? Why can't we all just see each other as human instead of holding on to views that segregate us on anything?
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2749242#Comment_2749242
Historical context matters too. Same ######### happened to the Swastika. It's why we don't have any Swastika charms.
Fictional context matters too. The cosmetic is not racist. Racist actions are racist. Finding racism where it doesn't exist is a problem.
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2747863#Comment_2747863
You're talking about a black issue, as someone who presumably is not black. So no you don't have a say in the matter, yes I do have the privilege to do so because I am black. You don't have a say in black issues if you are not black. You can either you can show your support for progress handling them or be against it, period.
I'm going to give my opinion about it regardless of how privileged you think you are in denying me my opinion. Period. This change is affecting everyone who earned these cosmetics. I'm not denying that some people used it in a hateful way. What I am saying is the removal of the cosmetics to prevent a few people from doing that is the wrong approach to this in my opinion. The cosmetic itself isn't the problem here. It isn't intrinsically racist. Context and intent matters in all things and when these cosmetics were made there was nothing wrong with them being in the game then and there is nothing wrong with them now. Finding racism where it doesn't exist is a problem (talking about the cosmetic itself here). It hinders creative work because there will always be that fear of someone seeing something made as offensive when it really isn't. If a few people being trolls with something in a game is enough to cause the entire removal of something that a lot of players earned then the future of gaming is going to have a lot of problems. People that do this will always be around. What are we going to do? Design everything in such a way that makes it impossible for things like this to happen? If a white person plays as a black character in a video game is that a problem?
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2746971#Comment_2746971
If you're not black you don't have a say just like any other person coming from a position of privilege period
Its not a "position of privilege" to talk about the difference between fiction and reality. It seems to me you think you have the privilege to invalidate my opinion about something based on the color of my skin, which you don't even know what it is interestingly enough. You know there is a huge difference between a real person doing blackface and a fictional character who murders and wears the face of his victims, right? Where does the line get drawn when it comes to fiction and what is or isn't intrinsically offensive? How far does it go before creative works inevitably become limited to that of a socially acceptable standard?
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2745934#Comment_2745934
Again, if you're not black you don't have a say in the argument period. That's the only response you'll be getting from me regarding this topic from now on.
Then move along if thats the only thing you have to say. I've given my opinion and will continue to do so regardless of how you personally feel about it. I do have a say in this argument. Everyone who plays this game has a say in this argument especially those who earned these cosmetics.
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739602#Comment_2739602
If you're not black, you don't get to decide what is and isn't blackface period
And I'm quite sure not all black people would see this as blackface. Do you think it is intrinsically or because some people used it in a hateful way towards other players over time? My argument all along was that the cosmetic itself is not intrinsically racist or offensive. Why? Because context matters and in the context of this fictional character there is nothing racist about it.
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When I saw the hatch change it felt like putting a tiny campfire out with a lake's worth of water. Completely unnecessary change with such a big approach to it. I just felt like... why? My keys feel worthless now and I spent millions of points getting them. I hardly used them much before the change anyway and believe me I could have because I have hundreds. Now they just collect dust.
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I think if survivors are left on the ground for too long they should heal over time and be able to pick themselves up without having to use a perk. Also yes I agree the option to give up in the dying state should be a thing. I've had way too many matches where the killer left the 3rd on the ground with 3+ gens up just to find the 4th. Its matches like that where you literally don't blame people for d/cing.
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Not all SWF groups are the same. Some of them aren't sweaty try hards. When I do SWF, we never super coordinate anything other than trying to deal with a toxic camp/tunnel killer. A lot of people who do SWF aren't there trying to give the killer a hard time. In fact I imagine you probably only see super try hard SWF in red ranks anyway. If they ever put any kind of restrictions on SWF I honestly think you would see a dramatic decrease in players. It isn't fair for people who want to play together. The other thing to consider is don't take the game so seriously. If you go up against a SWF then do your best and move on. You won't get SWF every time. A lot of SWF teams are actually fun to play with.
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@AGM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740275#Comment_2740275
You can have your opinion, but even if it's "in his lore" or w/e, but a white man changing their face, whether it's through makeup, excessive tanning, or skinning a black person and putting a black person's skin on his face makes him appear to be wearing blackface. You claim to not be racist but the fervor with which you are defending the inclusion of what any average person would look at and call blackface leads me to believe otherwise. I hope you'll reexamine your beliefs to reconsider why defending blackface might make you look racist. Have a nice day. Feel free to respond, but I won't be reading it or this thread anymore.
Honestly I don't want someone who thinks I'm a racist to read or respond to me because your ignorance isn't worth my time. To think such a thing about someone you've never even met but only read a few forum replies about a topic around a fictional character is beyond ignorant.
And by the way, if leatherface ever did wear the face of a black victim I highly doubt he'd be doing it for blackface. Intent matters in all things and the last thing I would be thinking about with a deranged killer running at me wearing someone's face is if they are doing it to be racist. I'm not sure what your idea of the "average person" is but I'm sure many people would look at a character like leatherface and think that regardless of who's face he's wearing that it makes sense for who he is. This is why fictional characters can't be fictional characters anymore with certain elements about their character. Someone somewhere out there will be offended by something. I'm not defending blackface as you ignorantly claimed. I'm defending a fictional character and a cosmetic made for it that fit the character. If you can't discern the difference between fiction and reality then you wasted your time even replying to me. I'll leave this reply here for those who do care to read it to see how wrong you were since you said you won't be reading it.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740157#Comment_2740157
"I have been matched with hundreds of leatherface players and not once have I even seen any of the survivor face cosmetics used on him."
Then those Leatherface players hopefully won't miss the cosmetics they weren't even using in game.
BHVR saw enough instances of it being used as blackface to harass players and amplify racism that they have made the decision to remove the masks. You are trying to invalidate those players experiences by saying you never personally saw it and claiming it was only a few. Removing the masks - which you said you never saw in your 2k hours of play - is a small thing for BHVR to do to help prevent further instances of racial harassment in their game.
Literally... not the point... I was making... You're very good at not making an argument or staying on point. Not trying to be mean but how many times now have I said something and you said something completely off point to what I said. The point I was making was that in my experience (which is worth considering as well as others) I have not even seen this happen. in fact I had never even heard of it happening until I heard that they were being removed. I've been playing online games for over 20 years. I have seen more racist things happen in them than you can imagine but never have I seen such an overreaction to it than I have seen in recent time. People are way too sensitive these days.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740028#Comment_2740028
I refer to it as blackface because the BHVR devs have said the mask they created in their game is blackface. Racist players are able to use it to amplify their racism while harassing others because it is blackface. It's nice you are able to ignore it, the players being harassed aren't so lucky and that is why BHVR is doing the right thing to remove it.
Overall lore in the movies Leatherface still takes on the role of the faces he wears, it's why he wears entire outfits with them. In DBD - where there are 4 survivor masks - he does not take on the role of survivor while wearing the masks meaning that they are not lore accurate either by DBD lore or movie lore.
And it wouldn't be blackface if no one came out and said it offended them, would it? I already said they can do whatever they want with their game, it doesn't mean it was the right choice or a good one. I'm not ignoring anything. First of all I have close to 2000 hours played in this game as survivor. I have been matched with hundreds of leatherface players and not once have I even seen any of the survivor face cosmetics used on him. If this is happening, I don't see how it is happening a lot. A few instances of it happening are not enough to consider it a problem and make a change like this. This whole thing feels like an overreaction. I am all for reasonable and rational efforts to reduce any kind of hate that goes on in video games. However there needs to be a line drawn on the measures being taken so it doesn't go too far.
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Thats not the point. The point is these are causing unnecessary changes in gaming and entertainment that is only going to get worse every time someone says something offends them.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740010#Comment_2740010
Again, I avoid arguing in hypotheticals because when you argue in hypotheticals you are able to change the scenario to fit your narrative.
Players are giving actual experiences of racist harassment in DBD - they are not giving hypotheticals. If you've been lucky enough to not experience racism that's great for you, others have not been lucky though and are giving actual experiences that others are trying to invalidate.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2740023#Comment_2740023
Again, reread my comments. I have said blackface is racist. I have said racist players have used the blackface mask to harass others and amplify their racism. I have not said just using blackface Bubba is racist.
You're literally calling it a blackface mask. How the hell do you think people are going to take it when you say things like that? Of course they're going to assume thats what you're saying about smartface being used on him.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739895#Comment_2739895
Read the DBD lore, no where does it say he wears all the faces of his victims. What it does say is he kills anyone that he feels threatens his family and that the faces he does wear he takes on the roles of those faces.
The removal is to prevent further harassment through the amplification of racism from use of the blackface mask to those that are offended.
- Its not a black face mask. Its a mask of Claudette who is a fictional character in a fictional world. You're going to regurgitate the same things you've said as to why you think it is, and I will ignore them because it is all irrelevant to the fact that it is not intrinsically racist.
- The DBD lore of him has nothing to do with the overall lore of the character and idea of the character which is what I was arguing the whole time. Again, you're stretching because you're losing the argument every time you make a post here.
- The fact you keep calling it a blackface mask instead of what it really is, a Claudette mask, shows you do in fact have a bias view of this.
Whats wrong with Claudette being viewed in the same way as all the other survivors? An individual and a human like everyone else in the story. Why does her face have to be viewed as being black face if its used by leatherface. Because he's white? Again, this is finding racism where it doesn't exist and the fact its now being found in fictional stories where it doesn't exist shows had bad this has gotten.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739895#Comment_2739895
The problem is that this is not an individual 1 to 1 relationship of DBD (the game) with you (yourself).
This game is shared in a social setting, and these fictional characters are used as entertainment. Much as they were used for such in their movies/mediums.
White man wearing a black face has generally been a tool to depict blacks during a time in which it was generally just shitting on them and as such has been the generally associated connotation.
Had everyone played nice and not perpetuated this connotation of only jackasses using a symbolic similarity to blackface things might have been different. But here we are, with it having a disproportionate use with targeted harassment. Sometimes children need to be treated like children.
I still say its finding racism where racism doesn't exist. If the actions of a few trolls are going to change things for everyone, this is a problem. Its a problem for creative developers. Its a problem for story writing. Its a problem for the future of gaming and entertainment in general. People need to take a more reasonable approach to this. Excluding content because some people used it in a bad way is not the answer.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739853#Comment_2739853
In the lore he does not discriminate when he kills, he will kill anyone to protect the family. As for faces he takes on the roles of the faces he wears - he never took on the survivor role while wearing a survivors face, he was always a killer.
Thats a far stretch in your argument there. If were going to assume things about a fictional character then at least be consistent with the fiction of the character. And being consistent with the fiction of the character means regardless of the color of the person he kills, he'd wear the face too. That also does not make him or the idea of it racist or black face. That is literally just being consistent with his character. You can drag this out as long as you want, but every time I will tell you you're wrong because you are wrong. There are black people of all walks of life in this world. To make changes to accommodate some because something is considered racist is the wrong approach. You keep trying to argue that this is a good thing for black people but who are you to speak on behalf of them? Have you ever considered that maybe there are black people in this world that are sick and tired of being told they're a victim all the time and just want to be treated like everyone else? Well this cosmetic along with the others leatherface could unlock would be just that. It would be everyone being treated equally.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739736#Comment_2739736
She points out that in no Leatherface movie or in the real life history of Ed Geins do either ever wear a black face and why because people kept saying "but it's OK because the lore." Asking "but what if Ed Geins mom was black?" is just trying to find a way through what if scenarios that don't exist to make the blackface mask acceptable.
If you're going by Ed Gein lore there's no arguing there would be other masks hence her bringing up the IRL inspiration for Leatherface.
If you're going by the movie lore he never once wore a mask that wasn't a white person and there's alot of movies where he could've. First movies were probably implicit bias but the more recent they didn't do it because a white man wearing a black face would bring up the racist history of blackface.
In the DBD universe they made the masks but they didn't fit his lore outside "he wears faces" since even in the DBD lore it says each face has a role - he never took on a survivor role wearing a survivor face.
Milady Confetti doesn't handwave away the historical context or symbolism of blackface. She literally says you are on YouTube and can go watch numerous videos or read scholarly articles, she just personally isn't going to do it in her video when there's already so many resources out there.
The masks do fit his lore because nowhere in the lore does it state he would spare a black person because they are black. So yes, the argument can be made that the fictional character leatherface would do the same to anyone and not discriminate based on skin color. If leatherface wore the face of a black person, it would not bring up the history of black face. It would only do it to people who try to find racism where racism doesn't exist. As I said, not all black people think alike and share the same views and opinions as each other. Not all of them want to be continually victimized and excluded from creative work because some find offense to certain things.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739726#Comment_2739726
Look up the history of blackface and you will see it is intrinsically racist. Within the comments you got offended by a title of a YouTube video, my saying Leatherface as a white man is wearing a literal blackface, and my saying people can be naive/ignorant about blackface. Your responses are opinion based on your feelings and it shows very clearly. You can keep believing the Claudette mask isn't blackface but BHVR after learning more about what constitutes blackface has stated it is and are removing it from the game - they'd rather the backlash from the few upset over the removal than keep something used to amplify racism in their game.
It is not intrinsically racist. I will say this forever. News flash, not all black people think alike and share the same views and opinions. I know shocker right? It turns out not all black people like to be kept in a victim mentality. And what if a black person comes along and says the cosmetic is not offensive? Are they wrong? Does their voice matter? Are they racist? This has to stop being a universal thing every time something like this comes up. It needs to be handled on an individual basis.
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When will black characters be able to be included in fiction the same way white people are without fear of something that happens to them being considered racist?
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739688#Comment_2739688
You are projecting saying I have a bias when really it is you with the bias while continuing to state your opinions are facts when they are not facts. The history of blackface makes blackface intrinsically racist and Leatherface never wore a black person's face in the movies so your statement on what he would/wouldn't do is just an assumption not fact. You can keep stating your opinions and claiming they are facts but that won't change the facts BHVR has stated and the masks will still be removed because of the facts BHVR had stated.
Nope. You literally are being bias because it is a literal fact that the cosmetic itself is not intrinsically (please look up this word) racist. You keep trying to say I am just giving an opinion, but I'm not saying how I personally feel about it. That is what YOU are doing. I care about the truth and the truth is this whole thing is a non issue that was made into an issue by people who think an in game cosmetic for a fictional character is somehow racist. YOU'RE the one trying to say your OPINION is a fact on this issue. But you don't get to redefine words or change reality based on your feelings. I care about the truth. When people try to use their feelings to create their own truth then I have a problem.
Also I highly doubt leatherface would look at a black victim and think to himself "oh no not them because they're black." You have to make a better argument then that if you're trying to convince anyone you're right. There is a reason people are pissed off about this and they are not racist.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739660#Comment_2739660
You're treating your opinions as facts. The facts are BHVR has called the mask blackface (see video with Not Queen) and BHVR has said it has been used to harass players (see dev update) so BHVR are removing the masks (dev update and patchnotes).
No. I'm not. I'm stating a fact as a fact. You're blatantly ignoring it because you have a bias opinion on the matter. BHVR can say what they want and do what they want with their game, as I said already. That doesn't make anything intrinsically true and it doesn't mean it won't come without backlash, which it has. That is the point I am making. People know that the cosmetic is not racist, so there is backlash on the change which there should be. Just because a few players used the cosmetic a certain way and said certain things after the match doesn't make the cosmetic itself racist. Why don't you see that? We're talking about a fictional character who has a characteristic of wearing the face of his victims. The idea of one of his victims being black makes it intrinsically racist is ridiculous.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2739602#Comment_2739602
Many times people don't realize something is racist due to naivety and ignorance. Once they learn something is racist they then change their views. While BHVR originally may not have realized it was blackface and could be used as a tool to amplify racism when it was first brought into the game they have stated they do now and are removing the cosmetic from their game.
Except its not ignorance to not see it as racist. It literally is not racist. Now you're implying everyone who doesn't see it as racist is ignorant. Do you realize what this does for creative work going forward? Story writers are going to worry about making a black character the victim of anything in their horror stories out of fear someone will scream racism. I don't care how many times you reply to me and say the same thing over and over, I'm going to tell you the same thing every time, which is the TRUTH. The cosmetic is NOT intrinsically racist. That is a fact and your OPINION that it isn't is just that, an opinion.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2738806#Comment_2738806
You can have whatever opinion you want, BHVR devs have openly stated it is blackface. BHVR says it is blackface and is removing it from their game.
Yes you've said this many times now. And I still say it is wrong. An opinion about something doesn't make it true. Did they think it was blackface when they made it? See how this is going now? The cosmetic is not intrinsically racist. That IS a fact. Like I said, they can do what they want but its not without backlash as we have seen. A lot of people are pissed about this and none of them are racist. They know the difference between fiction and reality. They know the cosmetic is not racist or offensive.