KateMain86
KateMain86
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431980#Comment_3431980
Yea. Once again. I dont care. Because other characters like feng(who barely has lore and is a stale character) is treated like a token character anyways because they are exploiting her cuteness to get more money. She's literally getting spoon fed with cosmetics while others get crumbs.
Responding to a character's popularity with more cosmetics isn't tokenizing the character. Its just good business. Your argument was based entirely around the sexuality of a survivor as being the only reason why they should get more cosmetics. That is tokenism.
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The anti camp mechanic is a much needed change to a long standing problem in the game. If it increases slugging, then we'll need a similar mechanic that punishes the killer for excessive and unnecessary slugging. There is no reason to leave a survivor on the ground for longer than a minute. Whatever they can do to discourage camping, tunneling and slugging I am all for.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431751#Comment_3431751
I dont care if they sell or not. To simply ignore your first official lgbt character with not even one incoming skin for pride month is honestly embarassing.
This is completely unfair to say they are ignoring him. "Because he's gay" isn't a good excuse to give him a skin. It should be because he's David King and not completely defined by his sexuality. This attitude of expecting lgbt characters to be treated differently by virtue of their sexuality is selfish and risks turning them into just a token character. If you care about this game then you shouldn't say things like "I don't care if they sell or not." You're wanting a character to be given special treatment regardless if it would benefit the company in any way. What will happen with the next lgbt character? Will this attitude persist? Will they be expected to become the face of DBD and set apart just because they are an lgbt character? Diversity is good when it happens naturally and goes unnoticed, not when a red carpet is rolled out for a character because they're not straight.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431085#Comment_3431085
This isn’t a hypothetical situation. It literally happens a lot in my games. And there isn’t any “getting triggered”, I’m just telling you what I do in my games. If survivors don’t want to be hooked, then they can bleed out on the ground. It’s not really a big deal. But survivors should give up their right to complain about getting bled out, if they are purposely placing themselves in situations where the killer can’t reliably hook them.
Yes, survivors don't want to be hooked. You make it sound like every time a killer downs a survivor they should crawl to the nearest hook and save the killer the trouble of picking them up. Leaving a survivor on the ground for an entire bleedout is far worse than worrying if they will be able to wiggle off or not. And if they do and go back to the same spot, they'll bleed out eventually anyway. Most survivors don't do this, so there needs to be a solution to unnecessary slugging and killers who simply refuse to even try to hook survivors.
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I promise you if LGBT+ people can live in a world where you can't consume one piece of media, game, ad or literally anything without having heterosexuality "shoved in your face", you'll get over a rainbow flag in a video game.
Heterosexuality existing in media isn't activism though, neither is a character or story that isn't. The banner of real world movements in media does feel like activism, which is the point I think @Brandon48 was trying to make.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430990#Comment_3430990
So it’s just a matter of how many people support it? Or how many people are openly complaining against it?
(also DbD does have Christmas themed stuff so it’s not that big of a deal anyway)
inclusion, representation, and even celebration are important for the LGBTQ+ community because of the harassment and exclusion they suffer from and have suffered for ages. This never happened for heterosexual people and let’s not pretend that heterosexuality hasn’t been celebrated or treated in unique ways in media since forever. The difference is that LGBTQ+ representation doesn’t directly exclude heterosexuality at all, so please don’t start to victimize here.
Inclusion and representation is fine, but celebration of things like gender identity and sexuality seems out of place in a video game. When you go beyond diverse characters and start including the banner of real world movements then people will feel like activism is happening in their games like @Brandon48 mentioned. I understand you feel differently on this, that the cause is more important and deserves to be treated differently, but I don't think video games are the place for it. The communities that great video games build around them is worth celebrating, and that includes everyone.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430759#Comment_3430759
Country flags may very well lead to political topics and controversies (see Russia or China and Taiwan) and holidays are often tied to religious beliefs which are chosen and therefor very much very personal for some.
how can you understand including these but somehow sexuality/sexual identity (which isn’t sexual activism) isn’t understandable?
also, heterosexuality as well as cis gender identity doesn’t seem like something people think about as personal when you look at any kind and form of media?
I was thinking of Overwatch when I mentioned the country and holiday flags. They do their own in game themed holiday events such as Winter Wonderland for Christmas. They even have in game voice lines for some characters that say "Merry Christmas." Junkrat comes to mind as one of them. I've played that game since it launched and never heard of anyone complaining about these things in the game. I can understand things like this being represented in games because they easily appeal to a lot of people and are a lot less personal and private to an individual than their sexuality. In fact they aren't even on the same spectrum.
As far as your last statement, I was referring to the idea of having a banner representing it which you don't see in media for everything outside of the lgbt spectrum. This is what I think @Brandon48 was referring to when he mentioned it and I agreed. Its one thing to be inclusive and another to give special treatment in the name of inclusivity. It seems counterproductive to the idea of inclusivity when a community based on gender identity and sexuality is set apart and celebrated in unique ways.
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@Shroompy said:
Yeah heres the thing with OW comp matches. They are on average MUCH longer than a DbD match
Pretty sure OW also has a bigger playerbase without even having crossplay. If that takes 30 minutes to find a game I cant even imagine how long DbD would take
I play competitive exclusively in Overwatch and most matches are found in under a minute for me. On the rare occasion it will take a couple minutes or so. I have a feeling though that a lot of people may be quitting OW given the recent PVE news and the general direction the game has taken since OW 2 was announced.
I usually find DBD matches pretty quick on the survivor side but sometimes a match takes a few minutes to find. A stand alone competitive mode for DBD seems like a good idea but I think the matches in them would feel mostly the same as those in the current matchmaking.
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
If there were they would significantly increase the already too long list of charms (they would probably go to one of the lower-tier categories as they are "just" flags). Make no mistake: I'm fine with it IF there is a filter added.
They could make them redeemable if clutter is a problem.
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Sure. Why not? Seems like a good idea to me.
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@Brandon48 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430667#Comment_3430667
Ok thanks for your reply. I just wanted to understand why there’s such an outcry for people wanting to tell me what their sexuality is in the game because for me it’s completely immersion breaking to have sexual activism flags in dbd. From what I can understand people just ‘want’ to and to hell what others think about it. But anyway appreciate your responding.
Who knows why. I don't understand it myself. I understand the idea of charms and nameplates centered around things like countries, holidays and things within the game that many games have done but a charm based on something that is so personal to an individual is something I'll never understand why people feel the need or want to do.
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So anyway, wanting a solution to unnecessary and toxic slugging is not entitlement. Its seen as entitlement by those who think this kind of playstyle is Ok, or do it themselves. It is not Ok. It should not be a possibility as I stated in the title of this thread. Blatantly leaving the entire survivor team on the ground and refusing to hook them is a situation that should never happen for the entirety of the bleedout timer.
So here is one solution I have come up with that I think would solve the problem pretty fast. Since I don't think the situation of entire team slugging should exist and that the killer should be punished for doing it, I think if a killer slugs the entire team and leaves them all on the ground for more than a minute then the entity kills the killer and the survivor team wins. The entity would basically become angry with the killer for refusing it sacrifices. It would be the same thing as when survivors don't make it out of the exit gate in time before the end game collapse timer runs out. If the killer knows they'll lose in a humiliating way, they won't do this if they care at all about getting "kills" by any means. The killer gets punished and the survivors get rewarded by the entity by having a hatch spawn where the killer died so they all can escape. I think thats a creative and fun way to deal with the problem if we don't have full recovery basekit options.
"But what if the whole team goes to a place where the killer can't hook anyone?"
Then knock them all down and pick them up. The 1 minute timer would reset after each pickup so if the survivor insist on going back to the same spot after each time they wiggle off then they will bleedout anyway and the killer won't risk dying to the entity for refusing to at least try to hook them. The killer's objective goals should be always actively trying to eliminate survivors, preferably by hooks, without resorting to full team slugging that wastes everyone's time.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430139#Comment_3430139
And what happens if all the survivors left in the game, have purposely placed themselves in situations where the killer can't hook them? Because that is what kept happening in the mori PTB.
This is a non argument. You're using the rare occasion of toxic swf teams who are blatantly griefing a killer and refusing objectives to say nothing should be done about it. You're also ignoring the fact that I never once said remove the bleedout so even if a team did do this, they would still eventually bleed out. I'm not asking for infinite recovery without consequence here. Survivors would still have to fully recover and escape the situation before a full bleed out. So no, your excuse is not a justifiable reason to ignore this.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430128#Comment_3430128
"No you don't win like that"
Who are you to decide how people win? Yes you do win like that, that's part of the game.
People can choose how they play as long as it follows the guidelines set up by the devs and the game.
Bleedouts are perfectly within those bounds.
When you become a dev or make your own game you can decide how people get to play. As of now you don't and neither does any other entitled player.
Its a part of the game I will continue to criticize and give my opinion on how wrong it is to be a part of the game. I don't get to decide anything on this game, but I do get to provide my feedback and talk about parts of the game that I believe should be changed for the better. That is not entitlement. That is a paying customer nearing 3000 hours played who spends money on this game speaking my mind on it. If that bothers you, stop reading my posts and saying the same thing over and over again.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430128#Comment_3430128
No killer wants to play with survivors that purposely place themselves in situations where the killer can't hook them, and this happens a lot. The mori PTB failed, because as soon as survivors realized they could pick themselves up, they played things like unbreakable/flip flop/tenacity/breakdown, and purposely tried as hard as possible to place themselves in situations where the killer couldn't hook them.
You have to fix both sides of the problem at the same time.
That didn't happen in my case, did it? Which is why if you've been reading my replies here I have continuously asked for a CONDITIONAL way for survivors to get out of a needless slugging situation. The main condition would have to be the whole team is downed. If the killer refuses to hook a single survivor in that situation then they deserved to be punished for it. As you can see from the screenshot I provided above in response to you the killer had every opportunity to hook me and refused to do so. They should be punished for that.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430070#Comment_3430070
They also never said they don't.
The code for the MMR is what it is.
Is it dumb that it's inconsistent with the endscreen/emblems? Yes.
Does it make sense for it to be a kill since they died? Yes.
Does it make sense for it not to count? No.
Does it make sense that its different between to two systems? No.
Do the devs make sense half of the time? Also no.
Do the devs mess up a lot? Yes.
Does MMR define the win condition? Yes.
You're literally refusing to accept reality of the way the system and game is built to avoid admitting you're wrong and to protect your ego. So if you want to run away please do, its a waste of time to try and explain anything to you as you'd rather believe your right than actually have the answer.
I don't care if it ended up counting or not, but I do care for having the correct information and knowing what the win condition is.
Killers are supposed to be sacrificing survivors to the entity. Any kill that isn't that should not be rewarded in the same was as a sacrifice both in mmr and points. You are still using the same argument which is basically "well survivor died therefore I win" even if it means a 4 minute bleedout. No, you don't win like that. That is the very kind of player that no survivor player wants to play against. Excessive slugging needs to be disincentivized.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
If you really did “crawl across the map hoping the killer would hook you”, then why isn’t there a hook visible in your screenshot?
I took more than one screenshot when I was thinking about making this post. The one in my OP looked like the best one to use for the subject. Below is a screenshot I took about a minute into the slugging which shows me literally crawling right by a hook. See the red arrow and me about 10 feet away. No doubt Mikaela in the distance crawled past several too. The killer refused to hook us when they easily could have and ended the match much sooner.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429432#Comment_3429432
What biased perspective?
My perspective is it is a valid win condition so its allowed, that's all. That's factually true, my bias is removed lol.
I actually don't like it as is, hence why I avoid doing it myself. But I can remove myself from the objective.
I'm advocating to get rid of the wait time. If you don't have to wait so long I don't see why its a problem anymore.
At that point what is there to be "miserable" about? That they didn't hook you? So what?
Your advocating to punish the killer just for trying to win in a way you don't like. Slugging isn't toxic inherently. You can use it to be toxic, but its not toxic in itself.
A shorter bleedout and those deaths counting as kills for the killer would incentivize the entire killer playerbase to do nothing but knock down and slug every team they go against. I'm advocating for fairness and balance. There is nothing fair or balanced about leaving the entire survivor team on the ground for a full bleedout. Survivors have one way they can escape as a team and that is powering the exit gate by doing 5 generators. Killers have 3 ways to eliminate us: hooks, mori and slugging. Survivors can't just stand around after the exit gate is powered and wait for it to open itself. Slugging should be in every way detrimental to the killer if done for a prolonged period of time the same way it would be detrimental to survivors standing around and not trying to open the exit gate. A bleedout should not count as a kill and from what I understand you don't gain near as much as you would through a hook elimination so you're arguing simply from the perspective of survivor elimination rather than through genuine progress. It really does sound like you look at it as "survivor died therefore I win" but really you didn't win. You actually lost and all those bleedouts aren't making you go up in MMR like you would with hook eliminations.
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@MrPenguin said:
I don't see what's irrational about that. They have 3 chances to 4% and it's for each survivor.
What is the reason for the killer to hook everyone? Its literally an unnecessary risk just because the survivors won't like waiting.
If anything its more irrational to suggest the killer hook them. All it does it put them at risk. The only reason to is emotion based, not logic based.
I'm not "missing the point" your point just isn't true, hooks are not the objective, kills are. Hooks are just the most common and accessible way to get kills.
Also it seems your other main argument is "survivors don't like it" which yeah sure, but that sucks for them. Survivors also don't like just dying in general.
Lets say one survivor 4%, then the other(s) die, hatch spawn and they escape.
I've had that happen to me multiple times. In that situation I get punished for hooking when I could have easily just left them on the floor. I don't because I don't want to wait that long but that's my choice.
You're advocating for a risk free "win" at the expense of making the game miserable for others. If a 4% unhook chance worries you that much then I don't know what to tell you. The subject of slugging should not be designed around that perspective. If you leave an entire team of survivors on the ground you deserve to be punished for it. You're going to an extreme to mitigate the rarest plays that happen in the game. You don't see what is irrational about that because you went into this thread with an extremely biased perspective on the whole situation. Excessive slugging is toxic. It has no place in this game.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428955#Comment_3428955
Not necessarily, there's still the chance to unhook yourself on first stage or wiggle off. The safest and most logical option most of the time is for the killer to just let them bleed out and not risk the 4% or a wiggle off or a perk like power struggle. Securing the win.
If past 1st stage, then you'll all get sacrificed anyway.
There should be no reason to not just let them get sacrificed on the spot like I suggested, it just saves everyone time.
The survivors don't need "a way out" they already lost. So just skip the wait and go to the loss.
Slugging for kills is still getting kills, which at the end of the day is the win condition for the killer. Not hooks. But it not taking up to 4 minuets once there's no chance of the survivors winning would be nice.
Blood points don't matter.
Also you're basically asking for some form of basekit unbreakable. No mither is essentially just unlimited unbreakable with broken. So idk why you're trying to say you're not asking for it when you are, even if conditional.
If a full bleedout of all 4 survivors on the ground equates to a win for the killer then even more matches would just be an endless slugfest. Besides that, you're missing the point entirely. The killer ignoring the objective of hooking the survivors, especially in the case of not hooking the entire team, should not be rewarded. You're using very irrational reasons (4% unhook chance and rare wiggle off) to justify killers leaving the whole team on the ground for an entire bleedout. If the whole team is down anyway then you don't have to worry about another survivor intervening the hook. You only have the extremely rare wiggle off and 4% unhook chance to worry about. You're basically saying you should be guaranteed the win for downing the whole team and you want to be absolutely sure of it by forcing the whole team to bleedout instead of hooking them. No. You should have to endure the risk of even the rare wiggle off or self unhook at the very least which is still in the killer's favor. There is no excuse or rational argument for this.
A bleedout should not be considered a "win condition." It should be considered a loss for ignoring the hooks. This kind of behavior should not be incentivized or justified by the mentality of "well a kill is a kill even if its the most inconvenient way possible for them." It should be punished by survivors having the ability to escape the situation. There is no rational defense for the kind of killer that literally every survivor never wants to play against.
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I am genuinely confused here. The perk Deliverance would never even activate under a slugging situation.
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@Seji1556 said:
If slugging is such a problem for the people. Why not just pick unbreakable?
I didn’t get this in the basekit bt discussion too. If it’s such a big problem that the killer downs the unhooked guy again and again. Why not just pick bt?
I mean if a perk is essential doesn’t mean you need to receive it for free. Or did I get a basekit ruin undying back the day it was meta? I guess no.
So why do people cry for free stuff when they can just pick the perk?
A perk will not solve this issue, especially unbreakable which is a one time use for the pickup effect. Other perks would only be effective in a coordinated play in comms with a SWF group. This solves nothing for solo players and forces SWF to run the same build forever to deal with something that shouldn't be happening in the first place. We don't need a basekit perk. We need something basekit that activates under certain conditions which will in time become common knowledge to both survivor and killer players which will lead to less killers slugging knowing they can't get away with it. If a killer leaves a survivor on the ground for more than a minute that survivor should be able to fully recover without the use of a perk.
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428559#Comment_3428559
They have deliverance ? Ds ? Boil Over ?There are nearby hooks or are way to far away ? As a killer how i may know what perks they have ? If i feel confident enough to attempt the hook or if there is an hook in a valid range then yes i'll go for it if not then it's not my problem you can stay on the ground until you bleed out
We crawled past half the hooks on the map with the killer following us the whole time. There was no excuse for them to do this to us and no excuse for any killer to do the same. Besides, its already been mentioned here that a bleedout doesn't give the same credit as a hook so you're giving a lot of reasons to get the same amount of BPs you'd probably get kicking a few generators waiting 4 minutes for an entire team to bleed out.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428843#Comment_3428843
I thought that's what you meant by "basekit abilities", if not my mistake.
As for not "rewarding" the killer, as you said the killer already won. You'd be potentially ripping away a victory or kill from the killer by trying to punish them just because they slugged the last 2 survivors. Slugging is a valid potential route to take to secure a kill or close out a match. Even as a main strategy, slugging is valid. It gets you kills which is the win con.
I'm just suggesting to expedite the process. If you want slugging gone from the game entirely that's different than the impression I got.
They win if they choose to hook everyone when hooks are nearby. They already "won" in that context but since they are refusing to follow through with the hooks then survivors should have a way out of that situation. That is what I mean by they already won at that point. Survivors need something different than a perk as a basekit ability to deal with this. We need a situation reset. Maybe something similar to what no mither allows you to do but it only works when either everyone is down or you've been on the ground for a certain amount of time. Survivors being able to recover naturally should be a basekit thing for them at this point in the game but as I said, make it conditional.
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@MrPenguin said:
Basekit UB isn't the way to go, just have the entity take them if all the remaining survivors are downed for 30 seconds or w.e.
I never suggested basekit unbreakable. In fact I don't think that perk or a basekit ability would even be effective in dealing with this situation. Also I would rather the killer be punished for ignoring hooking an entire downed team rather than be rewarded for it.
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@Ecstasy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427546#Comment_3427546
Seriously.
I cannot fathom anyone seriously asking for some adjustment to slugging with some expectation that the end result would be superior to the status quo after that cluster-#########.
That update they teased was legitimately awful to the point I'd have zero trouble walking away from this game and never even be tempted to look back.
To be perfectly honest, the inevitable side-effects and limitations bound to come up with whatever alterations the devs might make with about any mechanic or means of griefing in this game are far more worrisome to me than just putting up with the occasional negative experiences.
If getting bleed out for 4 minutes happens to you often enough that it's a genuine problem, then you must be the unluckiest person in the game or you're doing something very, very aggravating to players to warrant that sort of reaction, whether you recognize it or not. That is not normal.
Asking for conditional recovery options is not a game breaking request. The condition is simply the killer refusing to hook survivors after a certain amount of time. If the killer leaves everyone on the ground and refuses to hook them then survivors should be able to recover fully as a means to punish the killer for ignoring their objective.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427983#Comment_3427983
Yeah, that's not how it works.
People read this thread and project their own issues onto it. The subject of slugging, in particular, is not your unique issue that will only be discussed in the manner you desire.
Like it or not, most of the things Survivors complain about, including Slugging, are extremely subjective. What one player calls "Camping" isn't going to have universal agreement in most cases.
Did the Killer message you and confess he was attempting to ensure you had an awful time?
If not, you are guessing at their motivations. If you have video of the game, we can take a look and see if we agree (though, as I mentioned, you'll get different responses).
If they did message you, just forward the message to the devs and your all set. Otherwise, ... here we are.
When the killer downs the last 2 survivors, stands right in front of them and refuses to hook them without moving for the entire duration of the bleedout then I don't have to guess what their motivation is at that point. I know what it is. You're making very big stretches to defend terrible behavior in this game.
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427946#Comment_3427946
Yesterday in a game, 4 chose springwood as the map. Two of them had mettle of man and boil over
Throughout the game they hid in the basement of the school near the generator. Of course, it was impossible to get them to a hook as no one is close to that point. I let the other two players repair all the gens but the two who tried this brilliant tactic bled to death. They would get up and hit the ground again and again and again. It lasted quite a while as a match, it ended with 2 escaped 1 dead on the hook (he made a mistake and got caught near the stairs where I managed to bring him to a hook) while the last one I watched him bleed to death . He got up, fell to the ground, got up, fell to the ground.
Next game, Autoheaven, flashlight sabo squad, all with boil overs. It was fun I admit, but since they were running around the corners of the map ready to sabotage hooks well, the last two left waited on the grass for 4 long minutes.
Apart from the fact that they were two of the funniest matches of the last period, at least they were original in terms of ideas, without being able to resort to slugging I would never have won or at least had an even match.
This is to say that, as long as these possibilities exist, it will be necessary to be able to resort to slugging
Survivors who do this are going to do it whether a change is made to address slugging or not. The situations you mentioned are irrelevant to players who play normally. If you get a team that has players who are going to run to a dead zone for example to avoid being hooked then it won't matter if they can recover from a slug since you can knock them down again in that dead zone if they stay there. What are they going to do if you let them run from it? Start doing objectives? If so then great because that is what they should be doing anyway. The point is, if they decide to make a dead zone their priority they will eventually die from bleedout with or without a means to recover from the slug. The only thing adding a solution to full team slugging would do is allow survivors who play normally to recover from a situation the killer never should've been allowed to put them in (refusing to hook survivors). With a means to recover, the hook avoiding survivors will still bleed out. You just get to knock them down a few more times during the process.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Survivors sometimes leave me in a position where slugging them is the only rational option.
Hook one, and two more are dancing around the hook. I eventually down them, and they stay right under the hook until the 1st survivor dies.
No other hooks in range, and I know one is using Boil Over ... I'm not going to pick them up and give them a free do over.
Things that increase your chance of getting slugged:
- Using Boil Over
- Team mate with a Flashlight
- Sabotaging Hooks
- Purposefully getting into a spot you know the Killer can't hook you when you go down
This has absolutely nothing to do with the problem I mentioned in my OP. In fact I even said at the start there are circumstances slugging makes sense, such as the one you mentioned here. What happened to me wasn't the result of using any certain perk or playing a certain way. It was the result of nothing more than the killer being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. That is the problem being brought to light in this thread.
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I think this is fine. I know in Overwatch for example if you're playing competitive and someone leaves the match then you can leave after I think 2 minutes or so and not receive the penalty. Even still I'd rather the match just scale rather than end early. If someone d/cs then the match would play out as if it were balanced around 3v1. Faster gen repair, faster healing, maybe take 3 hits to down instead of 2. Things like that.
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427892#Comment_3427892
And what if the Survivors do something like all run into a dead zone so the Killer cannot hook anyone?
To the game; It looks like the Killer is refusing to hook anyone, and thus they can pick themselves up. And thus, they run to that dead zone every time, so they can be downed and pick themselves up, and never be hooked or bleed out.
Abuseable.
I'm not saying remove the bleed out timer. If a team decided to do what you said, which arguably would be rare, they'd all eventually bleed out anyway. They're basically asking to lose the match that way at that point. Survivors can only ignore progress objectives for so long before the killer wins. You know what else is also abuseable? Slugging like what the killer did to us in my OP screenshot. I don't understand this mentality of taking these "what if" abuseable situations and using that as an argument as to why nothing should be done about another problem in the game.
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@NoHookDC said:
Ah yes; The Killer was mean, so all Survivors everywhere should get something basekit to abuse over Killers whenever they want. 🙃
I guess I'm not surprised Survivors demand more abuseable basekit mechanics; The devs gave them BT, which they abuse to bodyblock, then complain they got tunneled when they get downed for said bodyblocking.
So now they know they can keep yelling loud enough to get more mechanics they can abuse, then go ShockedPikachu.jpg and complain don't work. 😂
To abuse? No, to counter something that shouldn't be a problem to begin with. I just don't want to be left on the ground for an entire bleedout while the killer stands there and refuses to hook us. That deserves to be punished. I'm not demanding anything. I'm stating how terrible this situation is and suggesting game changes be made to help reduce the occurrence of it. Also a conditional change is all that is needed for this. If every survivor is down and the killer refuses to hook anyone for a certain amount of time then survivors should be able to fully recover. That isn't asking for a lot.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427776#Comment_3427776
Why do you keep talking about no mither, its a ######### perk, try with (yes i will help you since you choose not to look up on perks or watch videos to get better, as i suggested, and you are welcome btw.) Unbreakable, and as i said... you screwed your self by not splitting up.
You want rewards for bad play??
Im not sure you understood what i really said...
That toxic stuff toward killers have been an on-going thing for a long time, i think killers had finnaly gotten enough and is paying back, does that mean that i think its fun to get slugged?? no... but i do understand why it happens, but you know, its so rare that i get slugged, but its not rare that the survivors drag time.
You are asking for the whole game to change because you run into an issue on rare occations, as a result of bad play from the survivors.
For not splitting up? Did you look at my screenshot and conclude that we both stood there and let the killer down us? Did you not read my OP at all? We CRAWLED to that location after both being downed. We were nowhere near each other when we got downed. There is nothing you can say to make this look better than the terrible situation that it is. Your entire argument since you came here has been "well since survivors are mean to us we are mean to them." I am saying this situation SHOULD NOT EXIST at all. Slugging is not a rare occasion either. It happens a lot and if you come to the forums and read what people say you'd see that its a very common thing brought up here.
Also don't you think that maybe just maybe some killers do this just because they like being toxic? Your entire argument has been "oh its payback time for all the tbagging" as if that is the only reason they do this.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm not defending anything. I didn't make this thread saying any behavior in this game is Ok or justified. You did that.
What??
If survivors are able to spend more than just a few seconds at an open exit gate doing anything then yes that falls on the killer for letting it happen longer than it had to.
We have nothing to deal with the situation mentioned in my OP without everyone on comms using no mither and spreading out.
Why dont you spread out, crawling to the same spot is a huge mistake on your part, and you just make it too easy for the killer. Spreading out and using the perks you say dosnt exist, is an effictive counter.
Ok, I guess its time to make no mither base kit. I said the perk solution you think so easily counters this is irrational for a reason. You want every survivor to run no mither forever to deal with killers who do this. That is never going to happen and neither is it a rational solution to the problem.
Also me stating the irrationality of your take isn't me defending the behavior you mentioned of survivors. I didn't make this thread with the argument of "please survivors stop tbagging killers at exit gates so they'll stop slugging us like this." You brought that argument here, and I showed you how irrelevant it was.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427729#Comment_3427729
If survivors are able to spend more than just a few seconds at an open exit gate doing anything then yes that falls on the killer for letting it happen longer than it had to.
Come on, survivors are not helpless babies that need daddy or mommy killer to help them out, and unless its bots, they are able to leave on their own.
- They do this just to be toxic.. I dont care if the killer can push them out, its completley besides the point im making
- Team A waste time of Team B, as a consequence Team B waste the time of Team A - now Team A is crying.
But when the killer does it back, its unfair and the killer should be punished, talke about having double standards.
We've also already established that no perk would effectively counter this situation.
This is on you, sorry to say... but it really is, you should read up on the perks again, or watch some youtube videos.
The killer has no strategic advantage at this point. They already won, so the intent is clear. They only do this to be toxic.
Yet you defending the exit gate camping, They already won, so the intent is clear. They only do this to be toxic.
I'm not defending anything. I didn't make this thread saying any behavior in this game is Ok or justified. You did that. If you think survivors standing in the exit gate tbagging you is a problem then go make your own thread about that instead of trying to hijack mine. You're trying to make the argument that a killer blatantly slugging the last remaining survivors for a full bleed out is the same as a situation that you can literally end by taking 2 steps into an exit gate and pressing M1. Let me know when its just as easy for survivors to remedy the slugging situation I brought up in my OP as it is for killers dealing with survivors bouncing up and down at an open exit gate. You are beyond irrational at this point and showing an extreme bias by comparing 2 situations that are in no way mitigated the same ways. You have a way to deal with exit gate survivors. We have nothing to deal with the situation mentioned in my OP without everyone on comms using no mither and spreading out. You may as well advocate for every survivor only doing SWF with comms at this point if you think its so easy to deal with this.
And by the way, when I said "they only do this to be toxic" I am specifically referring to the killer players who do this. You tried to turn that around and make the same argument assuming "99.98%" of survivors tbag in the exit gate. They don't. You know they don't.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427711#Comment_3427711
It doesn't matter if you see this as "karma striking back." Its still wrong. This is also a non argument. You're basically saying that because "this" happens then its Ok for "that" to happen.
Yeah of course, when 99,98% of all survivors waste the killers time at the exit gate area, just to be toxic. Its only logical that the killer slugs to waste survivors time. It is called consequences of your actions, this happens a lot in real life.
I am just simply saying the act itself is wrong.
It is, just as its wrong to camp the exit gate area, just to be toxic.
Also since you brought up the exit gate thing, if survivors spend 2 minutes at the exit gate doing anything that is the killer's fault. In 2 minutes you have enough time to go to both exit gates multiple times. In the situation I was in with Mikaela we couldn't do anything but wait to die.
So what you are saying is that the 2 minuets of wasted time is ok, when the survivors choose to do it, but when the killer choose to do it, its a waste of time and unfair. Just because the killer can push you out, then its the killers responisiblity that survivors are toxic and not their own?? you have perks to counter this, its not the killers fault that you choose not to use them.
99.98% of survivors do not do this. You are being completely irrational and missed the point entirely by sticking to your original argument which was never an argument. If survivors are able to spend more than just a few seconds at an open exit gate doing anything then yes that falls on the killer for letting it happen longer than it had to. Your "2 minute" argument doesn't make any sense. 2 minutes is a quarter length of a match usually. We've also already established that no perk would effectively counter this situation. The only thing that would be effective is if every survivor ran no mither every match and were able to coordinate a perfectly timed full recovery which would force the killer to pick a target while the others ran away. This would require precision that only a swf with comms could pull off, so it is completely irrational to use a perk argument to deal with something that effects everyone both solo and swf.
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This would likely incentivize more killer players to bleed out survivors more often since they would know they get the full credit either way. I don't know if you've ever played survivor but being stuck on the ground for several minutes isn't exactly entertaining or fun. If you can't find a survivor because they crawled away while you engaged another one that was nearby then there is a chance they will get crows if they don't move in time. Other than that it just comes down to you leaving them on the ground for long enough for them to hide and wanting to be rewarded for it. Also for disconnects, its unfortunate but if you got full credit for someone that disconnects, especially early, then would your adept really feel like an earned reward?
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427223#Comment_3427223
Any change you could make to prevent “unnecessary” slugging would also hurt instances in which the killer needs to slug.
That is not true at all. Instances in which the killer "needs" to slug are minimal. Arguments could be made that the killer just needs to avoid hooking anyone until all 4 survivors are down but if every killer played like that the survivor experience would be miserable. The only situation that slugging a survivor seems fair or needful is if you down someone and you see another survivor nearby that could potentially blind the killer or sabo a hook. If no one is around, pick the survivor up and attempt to hook them. There is no long list of reasons a killer player needs to slug survivors.
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@[Deleted User] said:
But staying at the exitgate and T-bagging the killer for 2 minutes of every match is ok?
The killer can just push survivors out, they cant be helt responisble for their own actions right?
this ^ have been happening for a very long time, i see this as karma striking back.
Also, i rarely play killer and i still get groups there run to no hook spots on the map when i do, no options to let them bleed or let them win.
It doesn't matter if you see this as "karma striking back." Its still wrong. This is also a non argument. You're basically saying that because "this" happens then its Ok for "that" to happen. Also I never said any other thing in the game was Ok. I was saying this particular thing is not Ok. You're the one trying to make a counter argument for justification of a toxic act when I am just simply saying the act itself is wrong.
Also since you brought up the exit gate thing, if survivors spend 2 minutes at the exit gate doing anything that is the killer's fault. In 2 minutes you have enough time to go to both exit gates multiple times. In the situation I was in with Mikaela we couldn't do anything but wait to die.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427220#Comment_3427220
It isn’t my preferred tactic, but the killer player is allowed to play however they see fit.
And the survivors can come here to the forums and talk about how much we hate this "tactic" and hopefully influence a change to unnecessary slugging. The hooks are there for a reason. They are part of your objective and normal gameplay as a killer. There is no reason to leave survivors on the ground for prolonged or full bleed outs.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426570#Comment_3426570
It should requires at least another teammate with Sabo, Breakout and a body block hit to let you wiggle out. Boil over alone should never let you easy escape.
To OP. I tried to Sabo a hook, blind killer while kicking pallet with Residual manifest and act like I making a mistake and down, combined with Boil over, in Lery map. I never get a single wiggle out. Honestly with that specific builds, my goal is only to get the build works once per match. So yes its fun.
Boil Over escapes without help from the team is very rare. I tested it out and even used other perks like flip flop and unbreakable to see how often I could wiggle free. I was only able to escape a few times out of several matches played over about a week or so. Even with an entire build around wiggling free it was difficult to do without help unless I was fortunate enough to have a nearby hook despawned from an eliminated survivor.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426649#Comment_3426649
I've literally been asking them to work Moris into the normal gameplay loop for at least 3 years.
Finisher mori not only solves a functional problem if implemented well it just gives a reason to even have mori animations in the first place. Like I'm not burning a mori offering just to watch people DC or trying to bet on devour hope surviving longer than a minute.
Yea, but it also makes no one wanting to be the last survivor in the match. They are essentially being made the example of failure of the team regardless how well they or anyone else played. I really don't think this change would be well received.
@Ivanynakov said:
What if slugged survivors could heal each from dying state other but in much slower speed? So Killer would be forced to hook on of them.
Thats a cool idea. They could also make medkits more useful and allow them to pick yourself up a certain number of times after filling up the recovery bar. I guess if that was a thing though every killer would start using franklin's demise.
@apathyinc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426649#Comment_3426649
The weird part is that a killer isn't rewarded for bleeding out a survivor. They don't get any blood points other than a few points for "bleeding" and the bleed outs don't count as kills as their killer rating will go down from "Merciless Killer" to "Ruthless Killer" with one bleed out.
It is a way to decrease MMR though, so maybe people are bleeding out survivors for that. 4 bleed outs will get an "Entity Hungers" rating which is considered as 4 losses in MMR world.
I had no idea players go down in MMR for bleeding out survivors over hooking them.
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@H2H said:
If only there was a perk that could prevent this situation!
If only survivors didn't have to use the same perk forever to prevent a situation that should never happen in the first place. Also there is no perk that would effectively deal with this situation anyway if used by only one person. No mither is the only perk that lets you pick yourself up more than once but offers nothing to protect you after. There would need to be some kind of endurance effect after picking yourself up given the killer is probably going to be right beside you. You would need everyone using no mither all the time also so everyone could run separate ways making the killer pick a target. These are very irrational ways to deal with needless slugging, so the whole team would need a basekit ability that activates under certain situations to prevent it.
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@Xernoton said:
Is it possible that there were no hooks around? I've had that a few times and was forced to bleed out multiple survivors because they brought too many Petrified Oaks for me to hook them.
Otherwise this is bming and I think a reportable offense (unsportsmanlike conduct).
We both crawled across the map, past several hooks with the killer around us the whole time until Mikaela made it to where I stopped at and the killer just stood there until we both bled out completely. There were no petrified oak offerings either. The killer could've easily hooked both of us and ended the match.
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@Gibberish said:
This is exactly what the Finisher Mori would prevent honestly.
Just end the match as soon as there are no standing Survivors left.
This prevents:
1) Killers deliberately bleeding out Survivors, just to be an ass to the Survivors.
2) Survivors crawling 300 miles across the map to where the Killer cant find them to deliberatley bleed themselves out, just to be an ass to the Killer.
3) Survivors going to areas where there is no hook within carrying range, forcing the Killer to bleed them out, just to be an ass to the Killer.
I think that idea was intended for the last survivor and also I don't think anyone really liked that idea anyway.
I look at the situation as the killer won if they decide to hook you, but if they simply refuse to do anything at that point the survivors should be able to get another chance. Killers shouldn't be rewarded when they refuse to play the game after everyone is down. There is no need to waste people's time because someone gets a kick out of doing nothing while the survivors are left on the ground until a progress bar depletes all the way.
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@Rogue11 said:
I'll take the occasional (like maybe once every few weeks) 4 min break to get a snack or watch a short vid over the dumpster fire forced cutscene finisher mori/basekit unbreakable system.
This most certainly does not happen only once every few weeks for me. We don't even need basekit unbreakable. We only need a way to recover when all survivors are on the ground and the killer refuses to hook us. Bleeding out should not be a way the killer gets a kill. If survivors recovered fully over time rather than bleed out there would probably be a lot less slugging.
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@KeiOrtem said:
I've had roughly three matches today where I would have a survivor either run to a corner with no hooks near it at all or to the 2nd story of a main building and just sit there. I dont see how survivors find that fun. I play both sides pretty evenly but I will see quite a few people doing this.
My question is how is that fun? Any decent killer will know just to slug you and not bother dealing with that so your fun is ruined and you are now hurting your teammates too.
Its not that its fun, its that its about the only way you can get any real benefit from boil over other than your team taking hits to buy you any wiggle time. The hooks in this game favor the killer. Wiggling off is rare, even with perks that help you do it. If the survivor knows they can have a better chance at using the perk successfully by distancing themselves as far as they can from a hook then they will do it. Try not to focus on survivors who do this and they'll either have to eventually go back to objectives or do nothing to which you'll win anyway.
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The d/c penalty should be capped at 10 minutes with no further penalty after. I've always felt that if a survivor wants out of a match they should be able to do so without being penalized but since players leave sometimes over small things I think a 10 minute cap is enough. Giving up on the hook has been a way but often times you'll get unhooked anyway. Survivors shouldn't have to worry about a d/c penalty for not wanting to play against toxic killers which is what I believe is the main reason why people d/c. I know it isn't the only reason, so I think 10 minutes is enough.
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You know something is wrong with match making when the killer thinks you're a new player and you have 2600 hours played as survivor with probably a thousand or more escapes. It feels like killer players are being handed 4ks in some of these matches lately. Matches that feel like you have no chance are no fun.
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@smappdooda said:
I just got a sweat squad with Artist who I have played maybe ONCE in the last year. Something is definitely "off".
Is that how the SBMM works? Is it based off your experience with each individual killer or is it across the board? If you have a high skill in one killer but try a new killer does it treat it as if you're new to that killer or have some experience with the role?