JustAnotherNewbie
JustAnotherNewbie
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
For tunneling to be successful you must take at least one or sometimes 2 hits after the unhook. Where are the calls for Survivors to improve their map and knowledge, situational awareness, looping ability, and stealth skills?
I thought people hate MFT because it makes going down more difficult?
I'm just confused as to what the standard should be. Should survivors be able to run a killer for 5 gens? If yes under what circumstances, If we take into account an average killer is against an average survivor, should this survivor be able to do this?
What about Bloodlust? Doesn't Bloodlust kinda counter what you're saying? Can any survivor of the same skill level as killer run the killer for that long despite BL being added into the game to avoid that kind of a situation? Do you wanna remove BL in that case, so downing a survivor is also a matter of skill and resources used (meaning having to run all the map)?
On top of that, for a survivor to be able to not get downed (or as you say get hit twice), wouldn't that mean the matchmaking be fixed so we don't have games where a survivor that has less than 50 hours is not matched with other survivors and killers who have 300+ hours? Because obviously there's no point in mentioning skill when the matchmaking doesn't work as it should be working.
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@Crowman said:
I thought chases were suppose to be the fun part of DBD
To be honest, more often than not you spawn with at least one more survivor. It's not like you are getting chased on your own, so i can understand being annoyed by LP, especially if all 4 spawn together.
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Are we gonna not run things now for arbitrary reasons? And I thought killers who asked for permission to camp/tunnel were annoying, but I see it happens to survivors as well.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564487#Comment_3564487
Source?
Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
It's not anecdotal. Last year when BHVR released killrates they did admit that solo and SWFs have different escape rates. They just didn't offer separate escape rates for all cases (solo, 2 SWF, 3 SWF, 4 SWF) which would make it easier to translate to something, but they did admit the difference can be up to 15% in escape rate.
Also according to you we should not be taking seriously killers at all when they claim SWFs might have an advantage and make their game harder for them, after all it's anecdotal and they cannot know when they play SWFs.
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@Sava18 said:
I mean sure but that won't make the game more fun for solos.
Matchmaking working correctly won't make any solo team a death squad, but many killers would claim that to be the case if all 4 solo survivors of mmr matching the killers were all trying to win. Which can happen but rarely. Although 4 solos is probably really rare as well, more than people would make it out to be.
It's not really about making the game more fun, because most solution are surface level anyway. it's about giving something back to solos for playing at such a huge disadvantage as they're a pretty core playerbase for the game as well as the killrate stats.
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I think it was just a bad game/day. It happens in every game tbh, even if you've played it a thousand or more times. Somethings just don't work out on that day for some reason even though they're as easy as breathing by now. Brain is weird like that.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564667#Comment_3564667
Just look up the gameplay. Wow it really a baby dbd game out there just running around. Might play it later
Can be fun, the thing that sucks is that it relies on gacha.
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@Emeal said:
Before the HUD changes for Survivors, the highest difference between SWF and SOLO was not above 15% win rate between them if I recall correctly. You don't deserve 300% bps for "enduring" that. We need to know what the current win rate difference is.
If its above or 15% still then you might have a point.
40% escape rate is from mixing all escape rates for solos, 2 man SWFs, 3 man SWFS, as well as 4 man SWFS. The true escape rate of solo is below that. Find me a game that gives a role sub 35% winrate and its players are completely ok with it, I'll wait.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564645#Comment_3564645
I will, if it's early in the game. More often if I'm playing certain killers (Demo, Wraith) that can chew through pallets. Few things are as much a gift to a killer as a surv who drops every pallet they come to in the first half of the game.
I'm talking about a different game called IDV, which is a DBD clone. That game has way more pallets than maps in DBD, but killers also tunnel and camp every single game and bring NOED (called detention) which lasts 2 mins. It's pretty common to have 3 gens pop in first chase as there is nothing as strong as regression in DBD to count on and the killer was chasing me for all gens. I was the only one to die.
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There are quite a few I want. Koudelka, Clocktower, Haunting Ground, Project Zero.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564637#Comment_3564637
Probably just angry they had to break pallets and you didn't give them a free hit. If the reason sounds silly, then it probably is that.
They honestly didn't have to break every single pallet I threw lmao. I don't think I've ever seen a killer do that.
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I got a similar killer but in IDV ranked. I would throw pallets and they would break them, I would make a mistake of stunning them with my ability power (survivors have abilities that are unique to them) which can actually make them recover from their animation lock. (I mean I didn't expect they'd break every single pallet I dropped lol). Regardless we got 3 out which counts as a win and we all get points, but killer reprimanded me in end chat about how I should learn to play my character and that I should not pallet spam (what does this even mean?)
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@MetalJesus said:
300% seems like little overkill...
It would be quite punishing to play SWF, mainly when killers have 100% bonus most of the times.
Why would it be punishing for SWF? they get to win a lot more than solos. Which means they probably also have an easier time getting pips.
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The reason to hook is if you have hook related perks, duh.
No one said slugging might not be the most optimal killer play. People simply have not reached that conclusion yet, but I would not be surprised if a year from now, hooking survivors is last season and the new optimal and safe strategy is to slug them. It definitely overlooks basekit BT, flashlights etc. and it wastes a lot more time for survivors.
Maybe you're actually playing 4d chess, just waiting to be discovered by someone who wants to prove something to let everyone know it's actually a viable and better strategy than what we're doing now.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564399#Comment_3564399
They've said that playing in a swf can increase your chances of escaping by up to 15%. So if survivors have an escape rate of 40%, and that includes swfs, then I'd put solo at around 25% average escape rate.
Abysmal numbers. They should actually give 300% incentive 24/7 for playing solo survivor. I don't know any PvP games pushing those numbers.
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And then when you don't get use out of it against decent survivors you'll come back crying that killers need buffs?
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@Nazzzak said:
"If I am matched with other players of my skill level, I win 70-80% of matches. But currently I escape maybe 30-40% of them"
This is why the matchmaking is bad. It's by design. Devs aim for around 60% kill rate for killers, and 40% escape rate for survivors. Now say you go and find yourself a swf. You're bypassing the bad matchmaking and finding people more on par with yourself skillwise, which increases your escape rate. To supplement your more frequent wins, others have to die to keep escape rates low and kill rates high. Hence, we get purposeful bad matchmaking in solo. The devs aren't likely to improve matchmaking for that reason.
Tbh, in that case I would expect them to be matched with better killers no? At least that's what should be happening anyway.
I would expect escape rate to still be 40% if the game matched you with survivors and killers around your skill-level. But that would be for solos. (escape rate for solos is obviously much lower atm) Obviously for SWF it might be a different number, but that's all the more reason we should not be mixing up SWF stats with solo stats, it's not genuine. There should be more transparency on BHVR's side.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
I noticed my solo q games are easy when +100% incentive is on killer, I tried over many days and week and i can confirm a pattern I get a lot of weak killers and strong teams
when +100% is on survivor I get these awful games with 200h teammates vs sweatiest p100 blight, matchmaking is so weird
I actually cannot get to any such conclusion, it's completely random. Sometimes I get good days other bad days and they don't really follow any pattern I can pinpoint.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563719#Comment_3563719
I always think people expect me to be good looper in swf. Big reason why I don't play it. I only play with my brothers though the other complains about everything you can imagine.
To be honest as someone who gets salty easily and is quick to point out stupid/bad play, I will also admit my own mistakes. And that is something I would also appreciate in people I play regularly with. Even Ayrun has chases he goes down in 20 seconds or so. That is to be expected.
The importance of SWF is more about having someone play reliably a specific role that is useful. If say everyone is bring flashbangs and looking for saves, that leaves no one doing gens. But if I SWF maybe I can get a person who will reliably do gens, or who I can ask to take over my gen if I'm getting chased. It's more so about overcoming the chaos of solo, that it is about expecting people to play well all parts of the game which is a rather unrealistic expectation to have unless you are top 1% MMR or something, and even those players make game-costing mistakes for whatever reason.
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Idk what to tell you. League also has a lot of stuff to learn, admittedly the champions that are in the hundreds. I guess you canget away by one tricking a specific champ but that doesn't mean you are necessarily good at the game, and the same is true for someone DBD, if someone plays a killer that essentially skips part of the basic gameplay say chasing), then that doesn't mean they are well rounded, but they are extremely specialized in that one killer. Claiming LoL etc. aren't hard to master is silly, unless you are in the ladder of top 100, since that would indicate mastery of some kind and still might not even qualify you for esports teams regardless.
What about fighting games that have been around 20-30 years (Tekken, Street Fighter etc.) and their players have amassed decades of experience by now?
Mastery is really not something that is accessible to most people, because it requires effort, time, the desire to learn for learning's sake, dedication and probably more.
Now if you were to tell me grasping the basics and using them reliably might be easier in other games than DBD, I might agree with you. Although I am not sure if that is so much skill, as it is the design of the game that makes it impossible (bad matchmaking, reluctance to separate casuals from try hards etc.), problems that other games don't have in spades unlike DBD. Those problems make it impossible to have a uniform experience in DBD, but in other games it's more expected, DBD is a game of extremes, so of course your basics will be challenged a lot (as in if you get matched with a 100 winning spree Wesker, maybe your basics don't matter, because you'd need specific counters that work only on Wesker and specific co-ordination against him to beat him, which the game itself makes hard to come by and outside of your control.
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I like to play Annoyance, Blastmine, Chemical Trap, Any Means. I have yet to get use out of Chemical Trap though.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563612#Comment_3563612
UW is a tracking perk which alerts survivors once they are found, unlike most other tracking perks. Simply start running ASAP, and it turns into a huge time sink to actually close the 32 meters of distance. Killers with smaller TR might be able to get closer before alerting you, but that also means it's taking them longer to find someone.
Point being, while yes... the perk is pretty good at FINDING people, it still requires follow up to do anything. It's like how just because Doc might get ppl with his blast, doesn't mean those ppl are immediately helpless. Unless a killer has a movement skill to help close distance, no one wants to takes a chase with a survivor who is running away already at that kind of distance.
Damn, imagine thinking UW only does that. UW isn't just a tracking perk, it's a disruption perk as well. No one seems to care about all the points made about how well it synergizes with DMS, or how efficient it is for one perk slot.
Getting flashbacks to old Eruption counterplay "just bring empathy and let go of gen when your teammate is about to go down", lol.
Just you watch, this perk will become a bigger problem once everyone and their mother catches on to it. It'll be ubiquitous. People simply think they have to give up their slowdown, that's why you don't see everyone use it yet, but you actually don't have to.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564144#Comment_3564144
I was on about the "thats what every killer says" - thing. I play both. Maybe not completely equal but still both. They asked for my opinion and they got it. Their comment makes it seem like its not worht it due to my killer-survivor-ratio.
Please correct me if im wrong.
Just because you play both doesn't mean you are as invested in both, that was my point. There are many killer mains who might play survivor as well, but they care a lot more about winning when playing killer than survivor (their own words not mine). That makes them killer biased. Same would be true for me. Even if I were to play more killer than i do atm, I'd probably still be majorly survivor biased.
Sometimes even people who play both roles 50-50 might have a bias towards one role than another. Maybe they only play survivors when their friends are online and fool around. So they only get to experience SWF perspective and killer perspective, and if they still care about wins when playing killer, that would make them biased towards killer.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563829#Comment_3563829
That's true. In this regard I would wish for BHVR to implement a simple way to review your last, say, 10 games. That way we could just play the next round and didn't either have to watch a whole game that might not be entertaining, just so we can now if that killer actually ran that and that perk. But as it stands right now, I don't always feel like it, which sucks, but it is what it is.
But this is a big reason why Nightlights stats are quite crocked, they give you a very good idea what's going on, but the survivors stats will always be way more inaccurate.
If you're playing solo I think you should be able to see the killer's perks. Like you I've also been in that situation where I have to wait for the game to end just to see whether or not they're running something. i also think both survivors and killers should be able to see who was on SWF etc. It'll also make stats easier to translate for survivors as well as killers, it feels like we're left in the dark most of the time.
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I think it would be interesting if next time you play survivor matches you also keep track of your team's escape rate. I feel solo escape rate doesn't tell the whole story and it sucks that if you die early but your team makes it out you get nothing, despite probably contributing to that win.
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I won't include licensed characters at all cause I think that is pretty unfair.
As far as original DBD survivors go I love Mikaela because she's a witch and has an awesome wardrobe and back in the day had strong perks (I still like her perks but they feel way more situational now).
I also love Nea because she has that stereotype around her and would love to be able to encompass it some day (maybe not so much the toxic part but the skilled part definitely). She's also the second survivor I think I picked up behind Meg when I was starting to understand the game a bit, so I felt like I was improving when I played her and that made her stick out in my memory.
My third favorite is Haddie, I like her perks and have tried to get use out of them, not always the strongest but they are interesting to say the least. She seems like a badass character and I have a soft spot for characters that may not be getting a lot of love and when I picked her up she was quite unpopular. Although lately I feel like BHVR has been giving her a lot more skins, so maybe she's become more appreciated in general.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563726#Comment_3563726
Don't get me wrong: I lose a lot of my games. I escape maybe 2 times in 10 games. But that's because I'm not that good as a survivor. My games are still fun though. Maybe that's because I find survivor way more chill than killer.
That;s what every killer says when they decide to de-stress from killer by playing survivor. If I played survivor 90% of the time and came here and said "when I play killer I don't face any amount of toxicity and my games seem pretty good but I just farm and 8 hook everyone and survivors are nice to me" I don't think you'd take my opinion on the state of killer very seriously now would you? Even if it was true for my personal experience, it wouldn't tell the whole story for the average killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Solo is managable if you're playing for tome challenges etc. If you solo to win there's your problem right there.
Wish we could say the same thing to killers, but it's only as survivor you have to go into a game with this kind of way of thinking. If the game is designed in such a way that as solo you only have 20% escape rate, i would think something is very wrong with the game, but as survivor you're supposed to accept but as killer you can actually complain if you have a sub 60% killrate and it's the game's fault because something something, the game needs killers duh.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563722#Comment_3563722
I think no one is saying that the perk is mid or "not so strong", everayone is acknowleding that it is overtuned, but killers lived for 5 month with the equally as overtuned MFT, so this begs the question: do this two overtuned perks chancel each other out? Are they so good that we are expected to play with just 3 other perks and always equip this one here? Is it BHVRs attempt to bring back unballanced, hilarious matches? Who knows.
UW is very strong and undoubtedly the best tracking perk, BUT if it were just that I think it were ok. I use it all the times after downing and hooking a survivor to get into the next chase, and in this regard it works great. This minimal downtime is often required in todays gen-rushing meta and even when you are doing great at the killer and downing survivors at a good pace, gens keep flying. So this effect alone isn't OP, its just "the best in its class with no competition".
Though all the other stuff, like the blinding and interruption, thats debateble. I would be a-ok if it was just a tracking perk, but with survivors abusing the living daylight out of MFT and Resilience and possible Hope, I will take UW and also run DMS in lieu every so often, just to get a breather. This is our new meta, the "overtuned meta".
This reminds me back in the day when people were saying Eruption on its own wasn't that strong duh, and it was problematic when paired with other regression perks etc.
UW is like Eruption in that regard but also stronger, it pairs extremely well with DMS, Sloppy Butcher if you wanna be evil, could maybe work with a hex build and in general frees your hand from bring other less efficient perks or add-ons. To call it overtuned would be an understatement. It's not just the effect of rendering stealth mostly useless, it's also the fact that does the job of LP, BBQ, Nowhere to Hide etc. much better will only costing you again one perk slot. I don't understand why that last point is ignored or not even addressed. Nowhere to hide which is similar somewhat cannot be used on non progressed gens and it becomes useless once all gens are done. UW is available from start to end regardless if you are winning or losing as a killer.
At least when Eruption was meta you had to balance bringing slowdown or aura perks (or maybe half aura-half regression). Now you can just bring UW and go for 3 perk slowdowns and it's pretty a pretty good deal. You don't need to know anything about spawn points, or how survivors might think. you can just open a locker and just scout and UW will let you know if anyone is hiding around, there's no requirements for this perk, which is what people are angry at MFT about. There are always lockers on maps, there will never not be a map without lockers and its effect last a long time.
You mentioned MFT, I thought everyone was on the same page that MFT is overtuned giving survivors both a speed boost AND endurance when they heal. Now imagine MFT also made it possible for you to get extra movement speed in end game without bringing Hope. That would make it way too efficient.
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@OrangeBear said:
What changes do you want to make solo queue better?
A ping system, some canned phrases that maybe you can edit, such as "take over my gen", "killer has X perk", "killer is X" etc. I'm sure it could be a lot more sophisticated but that is the idea. Solo would still have problems but I think it'd be a tiny bit more bearable.
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@radiantHero23 said:
I mostly play killer (70-30).
Therefore I have no issues playing alone. I don't find soloq to be that bad. Could be just me though.
Yeah probably it is you, every killer main I see here always says solo is ok so not really a new point.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563709#Comment_3563709
So blindness is too strong now?
When you tell solo to bring aura perks to be able to co-ordinate with other solo survivors and you use one single perk to do 4 differents things, including denying solos co-ordination then yes it is.
But I don't think you are up for that discussion when all you took away from that post was" mm...blindness strong now?"
Still waiting for someone to convince me a perk that so efficient it only takes up one perk slot is somehow "mid" or "not that strong actually".
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@TheSubstitute said:
Good luck; I'm too introverted with too whacky of a schedule to do that but I think it's the better way to go.
I was shy as well and expected people would be super weird if you didn't play incredibly well, I just played a different game and somehow people were friendly and I brought them over to DBD (and thankfully that game is pretty similar to DBD so they understand some of the basics already).
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@XshyguyX said:
Man, I see quite a bit of disdain for the perk. I get survivors don't like it. I do. But I can't wrap my head around the idea of that perk being as OP as survivors say it is.
Yes it's annoying. Sure. But doctor has static blast and aside from time difference it's the same idea. It's really helpful with M1 killers. I say leave it. Honestly. 40s cool down is good enough. Let the killers decide to run either a aura reading build OR a regression build. Or a weaker combination of both. That's kinda where we are. Idk.
Also Xeno. Why the hate? He's amazing. Yeah the tail is on the stronger side but you can counter it. Just have to put the sweat into it. Learn how it works. I hardly play against it. I wish I did more. He's a great killer and the flame turrets are his counter aside from perks
People just don't want to put the time and effort into learning how to go against new things I feel.
With UW you don't have to pick to run regression or locating perks. You just bring UW and 3 regression/slowdown perks and it's good to go. You have the best of both worlds. And you're playing a superior build to someone running 4 slowdowns who has no reliable way to locate survivors or someone playing with 3-4 aura perks who might be completely countered by distortion.
With UW you get the benefits of both without any of the drawbacks.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
"People just don't want to put the time and effort into learning how to go against new things I feel."
Can you enlighten me how I can learn to go against Ultimate Weapon? I mean, sure, I can go into a locker when I see the Killer approaching a Locker. But most of the time you dont see that the Killer activates Ultimate Weapon, so you will just scream when the Terror Radius reaches you.
And I dont count "Run Calm Spirit" as "learning how to go against".
The thing with Ultimate Weapon is that it is without a doubt the best tracking ability. And when we look at the counters, Aura-Reads have more counters. Ultimate Weapon has one - Calm Spirit. A Perk which hinders yourself in certain situation.
It also really pairs well with Dead Mans Switch. Which had counters before, it was used with Pain Resonance and you can stand up from a Gen (granted, nowadays you have to do that early, so you probably waste time which you can spend repairing), but with Ultimate Weapon, you will just hear the TR and Dead Mans Switch will trigger since you scream.
You can also not really compare it to Doctors Static Blast, since it is better than the Static Blast when it comes to tracking. It lingers for 30 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown, so the activation timing is roughly the same, but as I said, it lingers and it does not really give a warning, while you can hear Doctors Blast charging. And this is a Perk, which should weigh less than the ability of a Killer. And with those 30 seconds you can scan a HUGE portion of the Map.
On top of it, it adds Blindness. Which is fine, but should not be ignored, since it hard-counters Perks like Windows of Opportunity, which is the most used Survivor-Perk.
IMO if Ultimate Weapon would not linger for 30 seconds but just trigger when opening a locker or linger for a small amount of time (5 seconds on Tier 3), it would still be very strong and a very good alternative to Aura Read-Perks).
It also counter Bond, Kindred, Alert and more. And Bond is also a very common perk for solo survivors, that killers just tell us we have to run if we wanna know where our teammates are.
This is just a cope from killer mains. they really know what they have in hand. If they cannot take full advantage of it is cause they're either playing a killer that doesn't benefit that greatly from it, or don't know how to use it as effectively as possible. This is an insane perk that people refuse to catch on cause they're so comfy running 3-4 slowdowns, when this perk synergizes incredibly well with certain gen perks as well as helps you get more value out of it. It also saves you time you would have wasted if you had to find survivors the traditional way.
It outclasses most aura perks, lasts all game, is multi purpose cause it can interrupt survivors and adds blindness and only takes up one perk slot. Convince me this perk is not overtuned.
Before its release we considered LP strong despite this perk de-activating the rest of the game and requiring you to bring at least one more aura perk, now you can simply bring UW get use LP without having to deal with Distortion and also only waste one perk slot and not bring more aura perks (that could also be countered by distortion).
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I think it's easier to see results as killer (kills and wins) consistently than as a survivor (I'm talking about solo or duo survivors, not stacked 4man SWF).
I don't think there's anything wrong with camping and tunneling as strategies and people not using those strategies makes it a lot harder to quantify how strong of a role killer actually is. The problem with those strategies imo is that to counter them you need co-ordination and communication which BHVR is very stingy with for survivors. 3-genning I find a bit problematic because it feels like you can lose in lobby if you don't bring toolboxes and certain perks to deal with it.
I don't think survivors should be able to win games by bringing 4 strong toolboxes and Built to Last and never interacting with the killer, just like killers should not be able to slow down the game so much that it becomes effectively unwinnable for most survivors because there are no more resources left on the map.
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For a game that's supposed to be casual first and most I would definitely expect it to be fun. Even games that are way more competitive than DBD (actually have ranked mode, competitive scene etc.) try very hard to make the game fun for casuals, either by sometimes nerfing certain things that are annoying to deal with on lower ranks (even if those annoying things are no problem on high ranks) or adding additional alternative modes.
On top of that people who are inherently competitive and will do anything to win probably aren't the best judges of what fun means to them, cause fun might be mostly associated with winning in their case. So if winning means using a strategy the equivalent of watching paint dry then they'll do it, cause it's fun for them when they do get to the win. They don't necessarily care for the process of getting there. It's also why the play in the most boring possible because they use the safest and least interactive strategies, cause interaction is inherently more risky. You can't tell me Chess Merchants were actually having fun dragging a game for over 30+ mins, when in the span of that time they could probably have played 4-5 games.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560614#Comment_3560614
Holy cow, we still don't understand circle of healing even after it's death.
Circle of healing used to allow the 'self care' action, which comes with an inherent reduced heal speed of 50% that's applied after every other bonus. Circle had a +50% increased heal speed before the nerf, which was when it still had self care.
So 50% * (100% + 50%) gives a 75% total heal speed while self caring in the circle boon. That's also why the healing bar was still red despite circle having 'a bonus' to heals: you weren't healing yourself faster than 1c/s.
Since healing takes 16 charges, with circle at .75 charges per second, it's 16/(.75) = 21.333 seconds for a survivor to fully self care in a circle boon.
That's what happens when people play killer and never get to experience Mikaela going on a 2 min totem hunt, when she doesn't even bring small game or something to locate the totems faster. Not to mention when the boon got snuffed and Mikaela would drop her gen to go bless the totem again, or when 2 people brought CoH in the same game. It's why I disliked Mikaela back then, despite playing her myself.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560742#Comment_3560742
What are you even talking about? Who brought Eruption up? MFT removes all incentive for killers to mindgame because winning a mindgame means nothing with MFT (unless if you have Bloodlust and they don't make a pallet) and losing a mindgame means you lose even more distance. Playing against MFT as an M1 killer incentivizes just holding down W into pallet after pallet and creating a deadzone, because survivors are more likely to greed them with MFT (and odds are, they make it around too).
Show me an example where winning a mindgame to MFT is actually a losing situation for killer then. Because to me it feels they added MFT because maps keep getting weaker and weaker for survivors, especially after they received general nerfs last summer (like gaining less distance when hit). If they didn't add it to counter top tier killers like Nurse and Blight, they probably added it for other killers. Their decision is not an accident and last year around this time when the released killrate stats people did everything in their power not to admit that killers where actually in a pretty good spot and doing well even in top 5% MMR, which killers always claim is hard to play cause survivors are good or playing in SWFs etc. And they never did a breakdown of builds, so we don't really know the true killrate of perk combos like Eruption + CoB + 3rd regression perk, that any killer could use. It's also true that among those most affected by all of this were solo survivors who do make up a significant part of the playerbase as much as killer mains would like to avoid addressing.
MFT is a perk that gains value in the hands of a good survivor, or at least a survivor that is better in chase than the killer. If we can accept Nurse and Blight being in game cause skill floor or something, then I don't understand why good survivors can't have something similar. I would bet you survivors with 4 tool boxes and gen-related perks probably win a lot more games than someone bringing MFT+Resilience.
You also have yet to address BHVR decision to add a strong perk like UW in the game or the fact that they want the meta to be chase oriented and everything seems to point that way.
I'm going to mention this again after I've done a bunch of time, the game does not consist only of M1 killers Nurse, Blight, Wesker. there are other killers such as Artist, Plague, Huntress, Oni, Pinhead that don't care about it. GF and Myers also can bypass MFT altogether, that is the whole point of their power. Leatherface and as well. Billy too but he has other issues. Pig even got her old strat back with the release of UW. Trapper got buffed, Sadako got reworked and she's been pretty strong and even last year she had a surprisingly high winrate that people were in denial about. Wraith doesn't care cause he has speed boost. SK didn't even care about MFT until recently. Who does that leave? Doctor maybe?
Or are you gonna tell me now that you play killers addonless and perkless and don't tunnel or camp and everytime you kill someone you do a little dance on your chair?
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560482#Comment_3560482
not entirely. There’s various essays on why live-service games exploiting FoMO as their entire business model is very bad, indeed.
kinda dismissive of you, ngl.
I just pray they don't turn it into a gacha service, which 1000 times worse.
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Like others have said any game you spend a lot of time on will get boring after a point. It also doesn't help that DBD's progression system is kinda meh, so there's not much to strive. Unlocking new survivors doesn't really unlock a different gaming style (you can just wait for their perks to appear in shrine and are much cheaper anyway). The survivors/killers are super expensive as well as their cosmetics. You get no rewards for hitting milestones (P100), leveling up etc. and there's no tangible way to show off your skill to others via rank or something.
In summer I started playing a very similar game, Identity V, which you could call a chinese DBD clone, but it has followed a very different path and many of the stuff I wish DBD had, have already been implemented there. Having rank mode also makes me more invested in it, because I not only get ways that show how far I've progressed but also data per match that I can see how long I lasted etc. Tunneling and camping also happen every game and I still find myself logging in there daily.
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DBD's game pass is one of the best out there. If you finish it you get your cells back and can keep buying future ones. Just pray they don't change that because most other games make you waste time on it every time (looking at LoL, MtG) and some other games don't even have a game pass, but have gacha that actually costs a lot more with very bad rates in general.
The only thing I'd agree that is bad, but I also have no alterative to suggest, is buying licensed killers. That's as close to pay to win as you can get, but as they're licensed I really don't know what a better alternative would be since there are more parties involved in all of that.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560708#Comment_3560708
Interaction will occur regardless of the existence of MFT. MFT makes that interaction (the chase) even more dull because it removes so much nuance from it.
You're right, when I got ht by Eruption I was indirectly interacting with the killer. How could I not think of that?
The more time you spent chasing someone with MFT the more chances you have to mindgame them than when you were spending time kicking gens or they working on gens. Just cause you find something boring doesn't mean that it's not more interactive compared to something else. It's also why stealth got nerfed during this time for survivor and UW counters it, so survivors can't be uninteractive either.
To deny that gen kicking meta or survivors playing extremely stealthy is less interactive than current meta is to be willingly blind.
if you've had any experience playing League of Legends then you should have noticed that the devs decide if they want a slow game or a fast game by either buffing or nerfing tanks/mages/adc/assassins. Even if something starts out exciting at first it's bound to get stale after a while, it's the nature of many games. If they bring out a busted perk tomorrow for killers that you can play in 5 different ways people will be excited at first and then they'll optimize the hell out of it and be stuck with only 1 or 2 combinations and that'll still be dull then.
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@Venusa said:
Y'all just watch. Ultimate Weapon is going to cause so much trouble the more people find out about its busted potential.
I'm surprised people are still not seeing it? Or they're just trying to deny it. Hens already made a video showcasing its potential a month or so ago and anyone who's played since Knight saw this coming.
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And in the meantime UW got released. Maybe you should take a hint that BHVR is forcing for an interactive heavy playstyle for both sides. UW has even lower skill floor than MfT AND it benefits mobile killers much more.
All games have meta, sometimes the meta is slow and boring (gen kick meta), other times more exciting. ANd during those metas not every survivor/killer/champion/character/fighter is meta.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558872#Comment_3558872
I just assume that a lot of players who talk like this are playing with their feet and didn't turn their monitor on.
That or they still have every key on their keyboard bound to 'damage generator' and are just screaming for gen kick meta to come back.
I mean the name and icons of the perks changed, but most of them still play with regression builds. It's why we got perks like Ultimate Weapon, that's like a 3 in 1 perk, so killers can finally equip something else lol.
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@buckk0097 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557124#Comment_3557124
so according to your logic. i need to Somehow tell my soloq temmates to equip well make it. a bad perk in general instead of their MFT . DH Hope....
also according to you i have to sacrifice 3 perks slots to mitigate the issue. isnt this the same as telling killer to play instadown powers to avoid mft on first chase ?
god there are always people like you that instead of talking about issue and what could be causing it look for the closest perk to slap a band aid solution on it. in hope to shut any valid complaints . happened with deadhard ( just run blood echo ) old object ( play ghost face or scratch mirror myers ) camping bubba ( just do gens and dont save ) ....... some of these examples are over the top but still you get the idea
I won't listen to We'll make it slander. We'll make it is a great perk in general, especially after the general healing nerfs. An alternative is Inner Healing which is 2 objectives in one (totem/healing), that counters Sloppy Butcher. It's sad though that already obscure healing perks that were not considered great to begin with got shafted in the process (still waiting for Reactive Healing to be useable)
It's true that Sloppy Butcher murders solo queue, but this happens with every time a killer perk is buffed/and or survivor perks/items are nerfed/decimated. You mentioned CoH, but it's actually decent in a co-ordinated team, the problem is solo survivor.
It just makes no sense that BHVR keep promoting strategies that require teamwork and co-ordination to counter and offer no such basekit mechanics to survivors who are solo, but still expect you to be willing to play against those strategies under such conditions. That's the real unfair balance.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557736#Comment_3557736
The way the reddit killers talk, the kill rate is like 5 percent and every killer is unplayable lol
I'm sure they are being honest though. They just forget to mention they play Trapper/Pig/Myers etc. add-on less, they avoid left side of the map cause it's bad luck, when someone is rescued in front of their face they have to debate if it's the right thing to hit the rescuer but by the time they decide what to do rescuer is already gone and more stuff like that.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543068#Comment_3543068
But killers have the advantage. I don't think it's fair for a guarenteed 4k every time gens don't get finished.
Guaranteed kill for me but not "guaranteed" escape for thee!
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I mean you have Xeno to thank? He just brought the best perk for Blight, Wesker and Nurse. People are catching on to it.