JustAnotherNewbie
JustAnotherNewbie
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430291#Comment_3430291
Deliverance is working right. If you are the last survivor in the trial, all your remaining hook states get skipped. Since your first hook stage gets skipped in that very specific situation, you can't use Deliverance.
It isn't a free kill. Firstly, they downed you and hooked you. That alone makes it not free. In addition, all the other Survivors are either dead or gone. Since 99'ing gates is a thing, that's not free either since the killer at minimum spooked your teammates into leaving. Or you have bad teammates.
I don't talk about slugging for the full 4 minutes because that ptb with basekit unbreakable and the finisher mori happened. That tells me that it's on the Dev's radar and unless I have a solution, there's no point talking about it. And I don't have a solution.
Flashlight locker saves got removed because some Survivors were abusing them. Two Survivors with flashlights and lockers shouldn't be functionally immortal... but they were. Which is why locker saves got removed. It didn't happen often, but when it did it caused so much of an issue that it couldn't stay.
I personally don't slug for the 4k unless I know exactly where the 4th person is. Do I think it's poor form to try and force the 4k like that? Sure, but again, how do you fix it without breaking other things? I don't know.
If it only might result in an escape 1% of the time, why bother enabling it? It probably won't do anything and allowing for it just wastes time on nothing.
It is free cause you skipped 2 hook states. It's a killer strategy that they use. If they cannot catch that survivor or find them they leave him last intentionally. It's not random. Instead of requiring 12 hooks you're basically going for 10 hooks. Let's not pretend here it's something small. If all survivors but one escaped and you skip his hook states how did you earn it. You only downed him once not three times. Basically the game gifted you one kill because you got lucky in end game. Imagine if a survivor unhooking (also getting lucky) themselves also removed their hook state, lol.
Just because they tried it doesn't been it's anywhere near close to being implemented. I don't wanna remove slugging as a strategy, I just wanna remove the guaranteed 4k when 2 are left. Survivors can still lose if they have 2 gens left and someone DC's for whatever reason (I am not talking about DCing at 2 hook states) even though until that point they were dominating the game. Killers should not have a winmore strategy, it should be a high risk higher reward (4k being that). And the safe play is to go for the 3k. After all more often than not, killer find the Hatch first because they have more movement speed and don't have to stealth. Having a basekit UB at 2 left, besides some fringe situation where it can be used maliciously (but this also happens now with one survivor hiding for 4 mins), it'll only punish those who are unable to find the 4th survivor in 40 or so seconds. 40 seconds is plenty of time. 4 mins to look for someone with nothing pressuring you is just too much.
Killers get handed to them kills all the time when survivors get greedy in end game and are trying to get all 4 of them out. It should also be possible for killer and more common if he missplays his lead to end up with 2k rather than 3k. Killer wasting 1 minute chasing a survivor is already considered a mistake cause he loses pressure. It should not be irrelevant when the same killer spends 1-2 mins looking for survivors when only 2 are left.
Some survivors were abusing them, not the majority. The majority don't even know how to do them. Two survivors with flashlights and lockers aren't immortal because their beams run out of power. Two survivors not working on gens is a good thing for the killer. They're not looking to win anyway.
If a minority was abusing lockers why remove it? It probably happened only as much as Deliverance in EGC would happen.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430496#Comment_3430496
If I’m not in range of a hook, and the survivor starts wiggling, then they can get dropped and bled out. I refuse to be nice, when survivors are purposely placing themselves in situations where they can’t be hooked. Survivors know exactly what they are doing, and they’re being spiteful.
No one asked you to be nice, you are getting triggered out of a hypothetical situation. Just bring the mori and the putrid offering. There's nothing nice about either of those. You have more control over your gameplay than survivors have unless SWF. I don't understand what's so difficult about accepting that solo survivor has issues. You don't see me saying stuff like "If a killer hits me on hook 3 times I should be automatically unhooked" or something like that. Come one now. Is it the toxicity that bothers you about that? Or is it the small buff survivors will get. You confuse me with what is really bothering you.
If you think it happens a lot more often than killers being toxic, then it's on you to bring statistics.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430473#Comment_3430473
Basekit UB would be a giant nerf to killers, because if the 3rd survivor purposely places themselves in a situation where the killer can’t hook them, they get rewarded by being able to self pickup.
Anti-slugging mechanics are only good if survivors can’t abuse them by purposely placing themselves in situations where they can’t be hooked.
Bro, just hook him. Most of the time you can hook them. If you're so worried just bring the offering to make hooks spawn closer or bring a Mori. As it is now, it's not fair atm that killer can slug a survivor for an indefinite amount of time (4 mins is a lot of time in DBD) so he can get the last guy. Killers freak out when a chase takes a bit too long, 4min of chill time for the killer to look for the other survivor is a lot of time.
A killer who wants to get a 4k hardly cares about wasting time (see 3 gen killers at their peak slowing games immensely), please don't make any more excuses. You just don't want 4k denied if you get too greedy. The thing is that killers who wanna try hard can bring anything busted. Putrid Oak tree is an offering to counter the thing you're worried about, the Mori is even better because you don't even have to carry the survivor to a hook anyway if he already has 2 hooks.
Survivors unless in a SWF cannot co-ordinate to bring the stuff that counter killer strategies. Killers have more control that survivors (again SWF is the exception).
Killer wasting too much time chasing a survivor is a mistake, I don't understand why it should not be a non-factor when 2 are left. It's also a big reward for the killer to have 4 mins to do whatever he wants to find the other survivor. But you're used to it, that's why it does not look like a huge deal to you. The thing is that atm the freedom the killer has when 2 are left is not fair and it should involve more risk for such a strategy. Strategies that are low risk high reward are broken (and slugging for the 4k is high reward and low risk since it's very hard for both of them to escape). It should be a high risk higher reward strategy for someone who is really intend on winng. 3k is a win already.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430426#Comment_3430426
There's a difference between getting a guaranteed kill/escape because of a perk just because you hit end game and earning a kill/escape through your own work.
The killer earned that kill by getting down to 1-2 survivor before the gens got done. They just don't wanted to get their kill cheated out by hatch RNG, which iirc the devs stated mainly exist so the last survivor has a reason to keep playing and doesn't just hide indefinitely. It's literally an anti-spite/selfish mechanic that rewards the person they're trying to prevent from being spiteful/selfish by cheating out the person who earned their "point" (kill). Then they get a 2nd chance to cheat out because the gates get powered lol.
Nothing like that exist for killer and you want to add a 3rd for survivor. I say no. I don't even think we should have the 1st.
Remove hatch and make the last 2 situation not a potential kill robbery x2 if you decide to go down to 1and slugging amounts in that situation would drop through the floor.
It's not through your own work when bleedout timer is 4 mins. You have 4 whole mins to catch the last survivor when the map has no longer resources and your teammate is useless lying on the floor. Even the worst killer player can get a down that way, don't exagerrate. It's a gamemechanic/exploit that allows you to chill at that point. The survivor is slugged, you have time to get your 4k, just not indefinitely. You can also just go back and reslug them if you're that greedy for the 4k.
If i make it to end game then with my 3 teammates then I also earned my escape, so DS and Off the Record should not de-activate. I played perfectly until that point, why do I have to be short of a perk when the game continues?
Why should I get cheated out of deserved win if I played perfectly 95% of the match but misstep (or a teammate makes a mistake) and I end up dying. That's also RNG.
If I cannot chill at any point in the game as a survivor, Killer should not be able to either. He should not be guaranteed anything. That's only fair.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430447#Comment_3430447
if a survivor is slugged for too long, teleport them to a hook, and remove that survivor’s ability to attempt self unhooks.
That way, you can fix the slugging problem without nerfing killers in the process.
I prefer basekit UB to be honest when 2 are left than your idea. Your idea still favors the killer and gives him ample time to look for the 4th survivor. Should not be like that. Being greedy should come with a risk. Killer just saves time by not hooking the survivor, now imagine killer defending his slug when survivors are trying to get up a teammate who's recovered. No thanks. LOL, remove survivors ability to self unhook, are you serious? (what if they have Deliverance). Are you actually asking for a killer buff here? I thought you were more concerned about toxicity.
I just rather argue for slugging for the 4k not being such a big thing anymore. If DS and Off the Record get de-activated at end game because it's a guaranteed escape (I know, I'm repeating myself here), slugging when 2 are left should also be less of a guaranteed 4k-3k. Take your 3k or settle at 2k if you play too greedy. End of story.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430441#Comment_3430441
Solo survivors sometimes do this too, out of spite. Even if the survivors know they are going to lose, some of them will purposely place themselves in situations where they can’t be hooked, so the killer doesn’t get the full sacrifice bonus. And sometimes if you try to carry them to a hook anyway, they’ll wiggle off, then immediately run right back to the spot where they can’t be hooked, again, out of spite.
Ok, what about killers who slug you out of spite then? How should that be handled?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430426#Comment_3430426
If that is implemented, then the last two survivors might try as hard as possible to get knocked down in a place where the killer can’t hook them.
It would be better if the game officially considered 3k and 4k to be the same thing. The game should consider a 3k and 4k to both be be merciless, allow 3k to be good enough for adepts, allow 3k to be good enough for iri emblems, award the same BPs for 3k and 4k, and award the same MMR increases for 3k and 4k.
But the game can’t constantly advertise a 4k as “winning more” than a 3k, then expect killlers to be content with 3ks
I agree with you that 3k should allow for adepts, I have no disagreement there.
The first point seems an issue with SWF. I find it hard to believe when survivors are random they'd do something like that (imo there's no point). They usually just wanna escape. I mean you could just also make another change and if Killer knocks the same survivor 3 times when only 2 are left he just bleeds out instantly. Or simply limit it to 2 times.
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- Every Leon player i've seen or play with are really the stereotype of the Himbo. They always die so fast. Except one who was body blocking me against Nurse one time.
- I love Neas. Although they have the stereotype of being toxic, many do gens and will try to help you.
- Rebecca's and Jill's always try to help and go for the impossible unhook although they could just save themselves and escape.
- Mikaela waste too much time trying to find the books, they're one step above Meg.
- Megs disappoint me, they are too selfish and scared of the killer.
- Kates usually bring the most awful maps to play survivor on (Dead Dawg Saloon, Midwhich School come to mind). I dunno why they do it, they are a masochist (or really just like the map).
- I find Jakes are closer to toxic, dead weight for the team. if they've been playing for a while. They just hate gens.
- Fengs seem too varied to me since so many people play them. I cannot pinpoint a stereotype.
- I don't see enough Yun Jins to have an opinion.
- Dave's I am not fond of, either they are complete beginner or somewhat assholish (to me at least).
- Bills are also extremely scared, like Megs.
- Dwights used to be newbies, but now I see toxic Dwights more often (not to me usually but they wanna be chased by killer a lot, they make noice etc).
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It's always funny hearing people say "it's a minority playerbase" (which it is, but then you see a bunch of posts and threads about bully SWF.
I guess those couple of times people have a bad experience really stick out to people.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428843#Comment_3428843
I thought that's what you meant by "basekit abilities", if not my mistake.
As for not "rewarding" the killer, as you said the killer already won. You'd be potentially ripping away a victory or kill from the killer by trying to punish them just because they slugged the last 2 survivors. Slugging is a valid potential route to take to secure a kill or close out a match. Even as a main strategy, slugging is valid. It gets you kills which is the win con.
I'm just suggesting to expedite the process. If you want slugging gone from the game entirely that's different than the impression I got.
No kill/escape should be guaranteed . Isn't that why DS and Off the Record are de-activated in end game? SO as not to be a guaranteed escape? Why should the killer be able to guarantee 4k by slugging indefinitely one survivor?
Basekit UB should come for the last survivors. Maybe killers won't play as greedy if there's a timer. Get your guaranteed 3k and if you're lucky you get 4k. Don't force it.
Slugging throughout the rest of the game will still be a strategy.
You don't need a guaranteed 4k.
Bring basekit UB for 2 last survivors, there I said it.
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@Saiph said:
I think at the very least killers should be able to see who is in SWF with whom.
So many times you play "nice" because you think you're facing solos, and near the end suddenly all survivors start bodyblocking for each other, 99' gens with adrenaline and instantly open the doors etc.
As a result killers start playing sweaty every match because it's too risky to assume you're not against a 4-man SWF.
One day I played against a TTV with 3 globes so I assumed they were solos. I lost the match and thought the survivors played insanely well. Then I watched the VOD and realized that they were a 4-man SWF. Within the first 15 sec of the match I had basically all my perks called and my position transmitted 24/7 because one of them had object of obsession, while I was trying to play stealthy. This kind of advantage is not fair, and had I known they played this way, I would have played very differently. But if I had not watched the VOD, I wouldn't even had thought they were a SWF, just that I was very unlucky.
It's funny when killers think we're a SWF because we body blocked for each other and helped, they must have solo survivor in very high regard in general.
Just a few days ago I was playing solo (can't say for sure for the other people) and killer ended up asking as if we were SWF cause we were taking hits for each other. Also had a good game yesterday where Pyramid Head was trying to tunnel me and my team of randoms helped me.
But I also got unlucky when I was trying to help a fellow Rebecca who was getting tunneled by Wesker and we both died.
Sometimes the stars align and you and your teammates co-ordinate, other times not so.
But hey, it's funny if we play ok that killer would rather think we're a SWF, that's a great compliment actually.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428034#Comment_3428034
So you addressed exactly zero of my points about why this wouldn't be a good change. Cool.
However I'm not you so I will still engage with your points even though you didn't with mine.
If Deliverance gets changed to be usable in end game all that will happen is the killer will face camp you. That's it. Full stop. Then waits out your free BT effect and downs you 10s after you get off hook. That is a WASTE OF TIME. For everyone. Or you'll get out and it'll be seriously stupid and rob the killer of a deserved kill. THAT is why you are "robbed" of using Deliverance when you are the last one left. You had an entire game before this point to use the perk and force it if necessary. Why didn't you?
That example you gave for Blood Warden is a false equivalency. Sometimes killers don't get kills before end game. Why should they be further punished for that. Especially since the methods killers have to "force" a kill are generally hated (for good reason mind you, but they are). We don't want to further encourage that behavior more than the game already does. Also your assertion that it would be a massive nerf to killer end game is laughable. Blood Warden is not a strong perk. It very rarely gets run, and all nerfing it would do is make the few people who do meme with it just stop.
I fail to see what tunneling and camping have to do with this discussion. In fact, Deliverance can potentially be used to bust up a tunnel. After it is active, body block the killer, force them to down you, and if they hook you, you can get off the hook no problem. Seriously... if you have an active Deliverance and you're the last one left... one of two things has happened. Either your teammates left you to die and that sucks, or you failed to run interference for several death hook teammates.
Why should they get a free kill for Deliverance not working right though? In this case the survivor gets robbed. And if the killer hooks the survivor near exit gate isn't that a mistake of the killer?
Killer is not entitled to a free kill which hooking someone with no hook states is. Let alone someone with Deliverance. And this didn't always use to be the case. It got changed so killers are not bullied, but nothing's been done about slugging for 4 mins either out of spite or for the 4k. Why don't you complain about that? Getting robbed even if he played well all game with a perk that should be working because it has conditions to meet to be activated.( deliverance isn't active unless you rescue someone first, if you get hooked first it's a perkslot wasted). A killer who's been making mistakes all game can still end up with one kill over 1 tiny mistake or more. And if someone having Deliverance and using it in end game is no issue then why are you opposed to it? It might only save 1% of the people running it, but flashlight locker saving also got removed when probably a small percent also did. Why should I be ok with a killer who played bad all game, having even more power end game?
And if you're still a strong supporter about Deli being a time waster, then I expect you see you supporting the same for slugging for the 4k. Just take your 3k and if you're lucky you get 4k. No need to waste people's times (or is time not wasted then because it's the killer's own decision?)
Someone using Deliverance in end-game has hardly any effect on you. You just trigger EGC and if they don't make it they don't, if they do well perk was useful. Just cause it might happen 1% of the time or less should not affect you. Flashlight locker saving also got removed despite a very small portion of the playerbase doing it continuously in one match.
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The Blights I see always run the strongest perks and never give hatch to anyone. Of course they would tunnel out the baby survivor.
Sorry Blight mains. I will never trust them again, same with Nurse mains.
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428839#Comment_3428839
Agree to disagree.
Just because you don't how to make good use of something doesn't make it weak either
Some perks are more useful in a co-ordinated team, but thanks for taking a stab at my skill anyway.
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People be still having PTSD from CoH.
@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428058#Comment_3428058
You'd be surprised.
Exponential is sneaky. Sometimes you think "ah they poped unbreakable" as you try to slug them but suddenly you hear it... the totem, and they get away.
I would say CoH got hit hard on solo heals but for teamwork heals... it's highway to health states! (But it feels better balanced now for sure).
Just cause you are unprepared for something doesn't mean it's strong. That would be like me calling any second rate and unusual killer perk because I was not prepared of it and it did what it had to.
Exponential HAPPENED to be useful in that case, but it isn't cause the killer might not even slug. If you slug him and he's in range that was the whole purpose of the perk. If some killers have slugging as part of the gameplay then yeah, exponential MIGHT seem strong. But for killers who don't care about it, it's a non-factor.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I got CJ tech'd in my first tournament game on killer. It's amazing what nerves can do to your ability to play. You think to yourself "don't hit space don't hit space don't hit space", but your hand does whatever it wants and hits space anyway. It's why I usually clap back when people around here say comp players look bad. Take your DbD skill and cut it in half. That's probably how you perform in front of hundreds of people until you have a dozen or so games under your belt in that setting.
Being able to perform in front of people is a skill of its own and you only get that with experience.
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I'm not thrilled with the idea. Cause that means you never learn to play against those killers or certain maps and on top of that it will not be guaranteed that just because you banned something you will not get it 100% of the time. You can't get even on a team with people on the same level as you a lot of times.
As for map bans I'm not sure. I've read that if a killer is consistently winning the system actually gives them a weak map. Now imagine a (strong) killer opting out of his weakest map. No thanks.
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Well, you are not specifying how they're throwing. If you throw to early you get very little BP anyway.
Do the save farm you? Do they do their tome challenges? How do they throw?
Other than that it's a known issue, especially the challenges that say "get hatch" or something. These people are hiding if they even take a whiff of the killer's fart from miles away. Not sure getting to P100 has anything to do with it.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
Oh yeah, that should go to the 1st priority of BHVR since the game is so perfect now finally. Bhvr are so bored in their offices cause hardcore tunneling is fixed, bnp is fixed, pig is fixed, freddy too.
He should actually fly when u kick him tho.
Eat a Snickers.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428593#Comment_3428593
I've only just started playing again after a break, but the few hours I played yesterday had no DCs or letting go on hook thankfully. Two games had a tunnelling killer (I was the chosen one in one of those games), and in one of those games the killer was also camping. Overall, no issues. I also had one SM game but she was chill asf, which is probably why no DCs lol
I started playing yesterday after months of not playing. I had some DCs yesterday. Today though I had at least 5 DCs/suicides. It was unreal. Some days are better than others. But hey at least I escaped my last match for the day, so that's something.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
My condensed take on the issue is that it's not hard to simply match the energy brought by those you are matched with.
Sometimes that might mean taking your foot off the gas a bit when matched with players obviously below your skill level, or goofing a bit.
Other times that might mean going into sweat mode when the players you are matched with are really good/sweaty or toxic.
I just don't understand people who bring the same plan and energy into ever match and refuse to adjust at all. Is it really fun to curbstomp some poor group of potatoes/casuals by ruthlessly tunneling? Or going full bore gen rush on an inexperienced killer?
Does that prove anything? At that point, it's not about winning, it's not about "not putting their fun first", it's just making them feel bad because you can.
You can adjust down to the play of your opponent and still win. Not throwing, not putting their experience above your own. Heck, it's nice to take a match "off" here and there and relax. Just play each match as it comes.
What it tells me when people only play one way is that they don't have much game sense, and/or are just an a-hole.
I think whichever side decides to bring the sweaty stuff, sets the pace for the game. If killer brings sweaty stuff then survivors are not prepared for it and cannot adjust as they might just be strangers with each other. Same thing with a full SWF wanting to play optimally.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428375#Comment_3428375
It's not just you, I don't get alot of campers or tunnellers in my survivor games or bullies/sweat squads when I play killer. They're there but thankfully a minority. I think like someone said above, the bad games are simply alot easier to remember than the good ones. I started keeping track of my games awhile ago, noting all the undesirable things we see complained about frequently, and it really put things into perspective for me. I recommend more people do it.
I think getting DC/suiciding teammate is a lot more common than tunneling/camping. My play session today had a lot of DC's and suicides on first hook.
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@icedrake402 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428331#Comment_3428331
I never said I take it out on the next set of survivors, that was all your fevered imagination. All I said was that sometimes, tunnelling does confer some advantages (ie, the other survivors try for rescues instead of just banging gens and leaving) even if it is still scummy and unfun for the person on the other end, and REALLY needs some serious attempts to disincentivise it.
Yes, there are toxic killers too, beyond a doubt. Ran into quite a few of them. Thing is, I'm fairly sure the vast majority of people who are toxic from either camp think of it as "just getting revenge", because at some point in the past they loaded in for a chill and fun horror game, then got subjected to anti-fun tactics and dbaggery. So then they take it out in their next game, and create the next generation of us-v-themming, "see how you like it" toxic players.
Why not break the cycle?
We're basically making the same point in that case.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428510#Comment_3428510
What the hell is ‘tunnel out generators’? Someone explain what this means. I’m sure this person will have some weird-ass response I just don’t get. Lol. @Pulsar ? You’ve been here a while. Tell me
He claims that if regression meta was still a thing then killers wouldn't tunnel. But he forgets that we were around during it and there was still a lot of tunneling and camping still.
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You have one fun game and then you have to eat your words, just a Jake wanting to be a star and pulling down pallets to get the attention of the killer and then when killer chases him he goes down immediately and then proceeds to kill himself.
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I have fun when I outplay the Nurse, although I don't always live to tell the tale. But today I did.
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You can have fun if you take breaks. I hadn't played in months and on the first day I played again after being gone for long I had a lot of fun, although my games still had DCs and hook suicides.
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@icedrake402 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428209#Comment_3428209
Face camping at least gives the killer some advantage in some circumstances. And if it happens to me, then I'm out the game quick and free to look for a new one. Tbagging has null reason to exist other than to taunt and mock, and it never fails to make a bad killer game a bit worse, or a good killer game a bit worse.
The pettiness makes it worse--it's saying "Even though this gives me no advantage at all, I still want to take time out of my day to make you feel bad."
And you know what? I could "just toughen up", but I shouldn't have to. I disagree that you should have to be jaded, closed-off and emotionally numb to participate in a social game, because dbaggerery is something nobody can make the effort not to be part of. How about if, no matter what role we're playing, we don't give someone else a game we wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of?
Why take it out on the the next set survivors because someone last game t-bagged you? Is that your idea of fairness? Do bullied people somehow gain the right to be bullies to others and no one has to complain? You might not even participate in that type of behavior, but there are killers who try to justify their behavior for taking out their anger on random survivors because they got bullied by a SWF yesterday.
Tunneling also gives advantage but there are people who get tilted and tunnel the guy who is being annoying to them even if it means they lose the game. So in that context tunneling is not used to progress the game in any way, it's used as a toxic tool as well. Face camping can be the same, defending that shows your bias, because many times choosing those actions means throwing the game. It doesn't mean achieving two goals with one strategy (showing your bully survivor who is the boss AND winning your game).
There are many people who are power-tripping whether they are playing one role or the other. You don't have to justify either of them because you play killer/survivor and are biased. I also find it in bad taste when survivors on my team flame the killer in end game and it's obvious they are a beginner or something, but I also find it silly and self-centered when killers bleed you out for whatever reason they thought you offended them.
Sometimes there's just no explanation other than "they can" for why people are ######### in games. It doesn't mean they have been victimized or they are victimized still.
Yesterday I played against Twins and I t-bagged Victor once near end game. Should the killer if he was able to down me left me to bleed out for 4 mins over that one t-bag that wasn't even pointed at the player behind the screen but more so the killer himself? Should a killer who hit you once on the hook be verbally abused at end chat by the survivors or something? Wouldn't that sound like an overreaction to you?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428309#Comment_3428309
Unfortunately for Legal reasons we are limited by Countries
That's very unfortunate, I really wanted to participate and it sucks not been able to in other similar contests.
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Why are France and Germany the only eligible countries in the whole of Europe? I had a very nice for a Yui skin.
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I don't think all killers should play the same or have to play all parts of the game. Sure certain killers can be annoying cause they forgo certain aspects of gameplay, but then why have more than one killer? I do believe that some killers and builds/add-ons can carry you, but only in so far as solo survivor is concerned. Because to counter certain perk combination etc. you need to play as a team and not as an individual. If there's at least one teammate who's not on the same wavelength as you, you cannot beat certain strategies.
Imagine having a teammate (say a Mikaela) doing the hatch challenge and the killer you get is running the strongest perks currently in the game, with the strongest add-ons for his killer as well as a Mori or Putrid Oak offering. Mikaela tries to never get aggro off of you because she wants to make it to end game, therefore not using all the possible resources your team could to progress the game (health states and hook states are resources).
You are not getting out of that game alive.
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I agree that you cannot "train" people to not tunnel as if it's some moral choice.
If BHVR wanted to de-incentivize tunneling they would be looking for ways to do it. Tunneling happened when gen regression was meta and it'll continue happening the more people gain experience and the more they want to win. The problem might not even be tunneling itself. The problem is the difficulty and sometimes inability of solo survivors dealing with certain strategies (tunneling, camping, 3 gen) that require the whole team to be on the same page, all survivors knowing how to deal with each strategy accordingly, all playing for the same goal and most importantly being able to co-ordinate with each other.
Killers who claim they are tunneling for whatever reason other than wanting to win are just coping. There's nothing wrong with wanting to win. In every game where winning matters, the strongest strategies are usually the ones that are deemed safest, least interactive with the enemy and maybe simplest. Wanting to win in style (like say without add-ons or perks) is a different category on its own.
The problem is that the game is balanced around SWF, so those strategies have to stay around and solo survivor suffers in the process when they need to have the ability to be more self-reliant.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428034#Comment_3428034
If you get hooked before you activate deliverance you get "robbed" of it. Ultimately you are bringing a perk that isn't guaranteed to be used in the first place and saving it for a situation where you will die anyways.
And blood warden is already easy for survivors to deny by 99% gates and just leaving before the killer gets the hook.
Solo survivor has too much variance. Can you guarantee me I am not stuck with a 3-man SWF who wants to bully the killer in end game? No, you cannot. And for every similar situation where you can not depend on your team, Deliverance should have you somewhat covered up. The perk itself already has a downside, if you get hooked first it's a wasted perkslot.
Your team 99% the gate isn't even a guarantee, because many times people just open it anyway without having to and putting pressure on the team.
Someone having Deliverance and being hooked last while everyone left happens probably much less the above.
Deliverance being tweaked will hardly have any effect on the game or buff SWF because SWF already makes use of all their health states. The only effect it'll have is tilting the killer when he thinks he secured a kill. And have a minimally positive effect on solo survivor.
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@RealFablPlayz said:
For example i was hooked next to the exit, haven't been hooked before and i had deliverence. It was a free escape but the last 2 mates just left (they were across the map) probably because they were scared of blood warden (egc just started so there would have been plenty of time). But that doesn't matter for my question.
I was just wondering why can't i try to escape and i'd like to hear your opinions
I'm with you on this. Even if BHVR doesn't grant the ability to 4% in end game if you are alone they should grant it to deliverance so it doesn't skip unhook stage.
And not to mention this is a legit strategy for killers where they forgo a survivor entirely and just hook him in the end so they skip 2 stages. It's just that people who replied to you didn't wanna mentioned it (or forgot who knows) and they probably wouldn't like it if this strategy got a bit nerfed. But this strategy would only buff solo survivor and not really SWF as they already use their hook states as resources for each other.
And for every person telling you about the game not giving you guaranteed wins, ask them what they think about the killer getting a guaranteed kill skipping the hook states of the last survivor or slugging for the 4k.
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@FFirebrandd said:
Allowing that to happen will result in 1 of 4 things happening.
- Survivor doesn't self unhook and wastes another minute of the killers time in a won game. This helps no one. This getting removed is good.
- Survivor does self unhook but fails. This is hardly different than how it currently works.
- Survivor self unhooks successfully, but gets caught again. This accomplished exactly nothing other than wasting time in a game that's over. Nothing is lost by this outcome getting deleted.
- Survivor self unhooks and by some combination of luck and perks, they manage to get out an open gate or hatch. This outcome is absolute garbage. If you are the only survivor left in the trial and are downed or on hook, why should you not die when you are in a terrible spot and have no teammates to help you. Trick question. You should absolutely die in that situation. Any perk that could potentially rescue you from that fate will 1000% feel like the killer got robbed. Because they did.
There are literally no good outcomes for allowing this. Only bad. It sucks that your teammates literally killed you, but that's how it be in a team game sometimes. In fact, they should make the Yellow Mori base kit.
That's really silly, the survivor took a perk (say Deliverance) and he also managed to activate it. Why should the game rob him of this. Not to mention that the killer skipping two stages for last survivor has been a buff for a long time. Killers play this strategy where if a person has not being hooked they just hook them last to avoid hook states being used as resources.
Imagine Blood Warden only working if you got at least one kill before EGC, but being inactive if all 4 are alive by EGC. That would be a huge nerf to killer end game. Having Deliverance should grant the user the possibility to unhook themselves even if they're the last one remaining. If survivors have to play safe during end game out of fear for Blood Warden, killers should also play cautiously over Deliverance and not forgoing someone's hook stages just because. It would only buff solo survivor. SWF doesn't benefit from it because they a;ready have the co-ordination to use their hook states as resources for each other.
Killers can already tunnel and camp.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427775#Comment_3427775
Murphy's law is an adage or epigram that is typically stated as:
"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." In some formulations, it is extended to "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong, and at the worst possible time."
It happens every single time you wanna try something new.
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I equipped Reactive Healing and what do you know, first game is Wraith with Sloppy Butcher.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427544#Comment_3427544
Not really, if people want to feel skilled and improve at playing killer, I find it as a pretty good incentive.
That's pretty silly, people want to win.
How many people do you know that play even a single player game handicapped to prove a point? (like say beating the game with the first weapon that is usually the most underpowered). Not everyone wants to win in style. Some just want to win, simple as that.
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@MikeStev said:
Survivor can gain pips without escaping the match, make killer also possible to do that, without need to killing survivor (lot of hooks, hit, breaking action, down survivor, length of match duration).
I think this will reduce the tunneling issue
Survivor can also lose pips by escaping because they played too efficiently. It doesn't make much sense.
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This is the pov of a survivor main who plays solo or with random people I've encountered during my games (we don't have any voice communication).
So for me the issues that have not been mentioned are:
- Knowledge sharing. Even after the icon update I still cannot share anything of substance with my teammates like strategies or what perks I have or the killer has. Basically we are knee-capped. Not only that, but as others have mentioned, matchmaking is a problem. How can I guide a noobie if I cannpt even tell him it's not worth it to try for the 4% mid game with 3 more gens left?
- The try hard side sets the pace for the other side. When regression was strong and someone brought like 3 regression perks, good luck trying to play without any gen progression perks. Being unable to see your teammates perks could mean no one brought the appropriate toolset for that. On the other side if a killer didn't want to play regression and he played with a 3-4 man SWF who brought toolboxes and Hyperfocus, he'd also have to play at their pace.
- Sometimes losing at lobby. Kind of related to the above. If 4 of us all have medkits and healing perks and the enemy is a Plague then good luck being half as useful.
- No killer bot besides the tutorial. This would be good for practicing against killers and learning them, as the tips the game offers during loading maps are not enough to counter the killer.
- Having more ways to make the game fun for survivors and winnable (for solo I mean). My opinion is unpopular I bet, but reworked DH was pretty fun to use and made chases very exciting for survivors. I understand the balancing issue, but as a solo survivor I can attest that since I have no access to all those SWF challenges I get my fun in a different way. Many people like the 1v1 aspect of DBD, but it feels that aspects keep getting minimized more and more and the team part becoming more important and the only way to win games. If survivors had individually more power then I believe point 1. would be less of a big deal.
- Bringing in more new people. Although this isn't something simple as BHVR does try to do that by offering the game for free during weekends etc. and I dunno how it can be solved, it would greatly benefit the matchmaking and make it possible in the future to split the queue to tryhards (like say a ranked mode) and casuals, as the wait times would suffer if there were like 100k players on the daily.
- As someone else mentioned on the first page, transparency about killrates, perks with highest winrate, maps by killer and winrate etc. I don't understand why BHVR doesn't track those, or if it does why it won't share them.
- Reworking underplayed perks. Some perks have a lot of potential to be viable if only they were tweaked a tiny bit.
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The only incentives not to tunnel can be provided by BHVR themselves. If they don't then the reasons you offer are just etiquette.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I agree partially.
I like that Hags Traps cannot be burned but there is a Basekit-solution for it. Now they just need to delete Hag and I am even more happy.
Aside from that, I think that every Killer should have a very small interaction with Flashlights. Not something like lightburn on Wraith, this was too much. But something else. E.g. I think it was totally fine to lightburn a Nurse or prevent her from Blinking, but a weaker Killer like Wraith should not be impacted by Flashlights this hard.
So instead of removing interactions with Flashlights from every Killer (except for Nemesis), they should have added small interactions with every Killer which can make Flashlights useful against them, but dont impact them as much as lightburn did on Wraith.
Would give Flashlights some love as well, they are way too weak anyway and it would encourage some Survivors to bring Flashlights instead of Medkits or Toolboxes.
I like your idea about the interaction with other killers. Imagine blinding Huntress when she's charging her hatchet and she can't control its accuracy. Would it be risky. Probably yes, but it would be kinda cool if you can read Huntress. Or shining Trapper's trap makes its aura visible for 5-10 seconds so teammates know where not to step, something like that.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
It's the healthy way to play it! Becoming too engrossed in any game can become rather bad for your mental health.
That's probably the right way to play to keep your sanity,
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I think I do the no mind game, mind game when playing survivor, so if killers get caught up in that then they probably mind gamed themselves.
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I'm not noticing regression perks for killers as much as I used to (back when Knight came out). But instead they do bring a lot of aura reading. Starting to think Distortion is become core in my build perks.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
A few months ago I picked up a couple of survivors for 6000 each. Can't quite remember exactly when it was though but yes they do very occasionally do discounts. They used to do them if the characters were required for Tomes but they haven't done that for past couple because they featured brand new characters.
Sucks to have missed that. I hope we get a discount during the anniversary.
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I can hardly recognize who is who, outside of some obvious ones like Claudette. Like who is the woman with Plague?
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@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426419#Comment_3426419
You're equating good mechanical skill with good game sense. I think when people talk about skill they mean the first one most of the time, like say a Huntress, she's considered skillful if she's hitting those hatchets.
I personally see decision making also as a kind of skill. For me there are three categories of skills.
- Skill based on chase (mechanical skill)
- Skill based on decision making
- Skill of calmness (don't freak and keep your head cool no matter what happens)
The rest is all about game knowledge.
Decision making is super important and a person with great mechanical skill but bad decision making/macroplay can only go so far.
It's just that out of all three mechanical play is the flashiest and perhaps easiest to to notice.
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@Veroles said:
The biggest issue i see in a lot of games is that a large number of players are the opinion "skill" is all about chase. You get a down quickly, you are a good killer. And that is something what is absolutely not right.
Pallet stuns for example: How important is a pallet stun? Some pallets you need to force out of the game against survivors with experienced loop skills no matter what, the earlier the better. Some of them are an huge progress as killer and make the following situations much more manageable. It makes me smile when i receive a t-bag after a pallet drop which i wanted anyway, successful hit or not. The pallet was important, not the hit itself.
Also a camp. In a lot of games where i am not able to get a fast down, a camp just would make myself losing the game. At least a pure facecamp. A lot of camps only make sense when you can keep multiple people busy at once, otherwise you go out of the match with max 2 kills.
You're equating good mechanical skill with good game sense. I think when people talk about skill they mean the first one most of the time, like say a Huntress, she's considered skillful if she's hitting those hatchets. This killer has a lot of skill expression unlike some other killers like Trapper or Wraith, who are considered more one-dimensional.
Are there skillful Trappers and Wraiths? Yes, but they usually have to rely more on the knowledge and experience they've gained by playing long. They rely more on their game sense than raw mechanics.
So camping is not skillful, there's nothing mechanically intensive about staring a hooked survivor in the face, but knowing when to camp and where to hook the survivor for maximum benefit is great game-sense and understanding the benefit of it.
A person who started playing yesterday instinctually will camp when he gets a hook and gens are popping left and right. But he's not camping to build pressure and force survivors to make mistakes, he's camping to save face, to feel like he at least got one. He lacks the experience to understand the effect camping can have on the hooked survivors teammates.
Also removing skill from many games is desirable for people who want to win, because skill is a variable and people who play on a higher level want more guaranteed strategies that are safe to impement and not as dependent on skill. But that makes games boring, whereas having to engage with a skilled opponent, having to read them, having to react to them react to you, all those back to back is a lot more exciting. That's why people like the chase.
People really do like 1 v 1, from the chases of DBD, to fighting games, to top lane or mid lane in League of Legends. I'm sure there are way more examples, but those are the ones I could come up with. The problem with 1v1's though, is that losing in it is/feels a lot more personal, than say losing in a team. It's why killers hate extended chases and survivors love them even if the get hooked. They lost the war but won the battle (survivors). Same with LoL. Even if the most skillful top/mid laner loses because of his team, if he played well he has a score to show for it, a grade and sometimes even gets a little gift in the form of a chest you can open up (if your score was exceptionally good). It also feels easier to put the blame on the team if you did well but still lost. The killer can not do such a thing, that's why 3 genning is a preferred strategy than chasing one survivor, it was safer for the killer.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426377#Comment_3426377
What I meant is that the game as a whole is already struggling to not completely fall apart when new things get added lately. Like the game has been having more performance issues than normal for while and across all platforms too. I can only imagine the level of breakage a new mode would bring.
Ahhh yeah, that makes sense. Perhaps it needs to be optimized better.