Junylar
Junylar
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- Junylar
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746484#Comment_3746484
Escapes is the only objective way to measure relative survivor skill, which is what MMR is supposed to do. Everyone falls into the trap of thinking of that one game where the best player died and the bad one escaped. MMR isn't a measurement of one player's experience in a small handful of games. Over hundreds of thousands of games against a common set of opponents, a good survivor will escape more than a bad one. That's all MMR is trying to measure.
Sole Survivor + hiding all game = top MMR meta
Looping for 5 gens and dying while going for end-game saves = noob low MMR pick
Got you
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746329#Comment_3746329
Current match making is simply focused more on speed than precise match making, which I personally prefer.
I really don't want to wait 5 minutes in queue just to have everyone with 3k+ hours...
When you measure skill with escapes, the matchmaking will never be good even if you prefer score matching over speed. The entire foundation of this MMR is flawed.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746340#Comment_3746340
Not all of them do, I know I dont do that anyway, probably just the ones who get bounced early out of every tournament so they want to feel like they finally did something, or a ladder player who just got ran for like 10 minutes in a 1v1, it all goes back to ego and people thinking this game is their real life
Found the video, here it is. Nope, those are not ladder players who do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo2ZFcqcbJc -
@The_Krapper said:
Bet he'd be the first one crying in the chat if the tables were turned and he lost, people like this probably just don't win very often I mean I don't understand the whole excitement of wasting your own time bleeding multiple survivors out and during the event it should be bannable because you have auto hooks with the invitation so it's literally just griefing at this point, the last time I bled out survivors it was because they all had breakdown on in a group
To be fair, comp players do this all the time when they play public games. There was a video about it recently which Hens made a review of. So yeah, you could say the endgame bleeding is literally a comp play move.
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By the way, talking about the survivor experience, the first survivor game of today in this mode where I wasn't tunneled out at 5 gens I had 2 of my teammates cooperate with the killer and leading him to me, teabagging while I was on hook. As if this mode attracts the worst kinds of people for both sides.
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This anniversary is an absolute cringefest. Queue up to finish all the challenges, and never queue up in this mode again. To be fair I don't even want to queue up there as a killer, since I mostly play Nurse now, and survivor powers strongly counter her, especially the haste power, which makes them immune for her blinks.
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@CrypticGirl said:
I'm inclined to agree with the sentiment that the only reason solo queue is in such a hellish state is because of the Survivors themselves. You can give them all the tips, buffs, and info in the world, but it won't necessarily stop them from being stupid. Like, what are you supposed to do about this kind of behavior here? I honestly don't know what this Renato did to deserve this kind of treatment, if anything.
Solo queue teammates being solo queue teammates
And Exhibit B, where we have two P100 Davids playing like pros. 😋
Yeah, imagine if someone invented a system that would put good survivors in a match with other good survivors, without ruining the game for decent players by adding someone who doesn't know how to play in their team, yeah, that would be a game changer. If only DbD had something like this…
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@Neaxolotl said:
I mean, no amount of buffs or changes will fix Solo, and it's not even "bad players lose" argument, some soloq players are fundamentally different (not even trying to win at all) than those who play seriously
You mean those who are doing archive challenges instead of trying to win? So once again the problem is something that the devs added into the game without even asking the community, something nobody has asked for, and not the players themselves?
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I mean, what else did you expect from a Trickster main? You are lucky it wasn't a Nemesis or a Ghostface main
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People come to the event expecting something new, spectacular and joyful, as if they are coming to a Christmas party, but instead they get a mouthful of good old DbD, so they get disappointed and frustrated.
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Pros: your chances of winning are tremendously increased.
Cons: you might be called a bad word in the end-game chat.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745683#Comment_3745683
I die not change the subject of the discussion.
You said that SWF are toxic and you want a way to retaliate (ignoring that there are other things that a Killer can do to be "toxic" except slugging) and I said that that is an insane take. It might shock you, but there are Killers that get bmed by survivors and are able to just continue to play normally without any BM, so acting as if you need options to retaliate for the game to stay balanced is simply insane.
You also said that it prevents BM, and I said that is not true. The survivor you BM will just feel justified in bming other Killers because "that Killer was an ass, all Killers are an ass, why should we be nice?" (You know, kinda like your justification for bming SWFs).
I added to the discussion that you understanding of justice hurts the group you claim to advocate for, but that is still related to the original topic so I don't think I'm derailing here.
You said that SWF are toxic and you want a way to retaliate (ignoring
that there are other things that a Killer can do to be "toxic" except
slugging) and I said that that is an insane take.Why? Serving toxic players their own medicine is an insane take? You want to remove the killer's ability to be toxic, while allowing survivors to continue doing it freely? This is essentially what you want to achieve by nerfing bleedout while leaving all of survivors BM untouched.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745631#Comment_3745631
The killer DCing could be anything
No, the killer DCing is a 4 escape and it counts as such. Whether BHVR counts those matches or not for their stats has nothing to do with the in game rewards and winning conditions.
Is there really a difference between suiciding on hook within 1 minute of a trial and being tunneled out of the trial within 1 minute?
Yes, the person who does the action. One is the survivor's fault, the other isn't. One means that the survivor at least tried, and the other means that the survivor didn't even try at all. One makes you a bad teammate, the other doesn't.
And most of the times, survivors go next because of objective reasons you personally might not have noticed, like seeing auras of half of their team hiding in bushes.
Sorry to break it to you, but, um… that is still survivors not being good teammates, mate.
You used an "experiment" of a guy who blatantly manipulated the counted escape rate as an argument
No, I used that "experiment" as proof that if you play well, make the right decisions at the right time, bring perks that help the team instead of the "5 gen looper" build, and of course, you at least try to play and not quit the moment something doesn't go your way, your and your team's escape rate will be higher. The fact that counting all those things while not counting DCs gives a 64.8% escape rate is only further proof that the main problem with SoloQ is survivor's doing and not even trying in the first place.
You are not proving me wrong, you are confirming my points.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745645#Comment_3745645
Do you realize that those survivors who "aren't willing to be teamplayers and ragequit" are also survivors? I think the problem here is that you are taking this like I'm literally saying "it is your fault" to you when I'm talking about the player base in general. There is no reason to take it personally.
And yeah, like I said, there are a couple of QoL things they should add to help those "teamplayers" be able to coordinate better, starting with a Quickchat function. But that's a different topic all together.
Whether BHVR counts those matches or not for their stats has nothing to do with the in game rewards and winning conditions.
And yet he refuses to count games where a survivor DCs or dies too quickly, even though the game also has respective rewards for every outcome. So this excuse is also inconsistent. Once again: counting favorable outcomes even if you have to apply mental gymnastics to justify it, while not counting unfavorable ones even if you have to come up with excuses why not. Clear data manipulation.
One makes you a bad teammate, the other doesn't.
If a survivor sees 2 of their teammates hiding in bushes and decides to go next, it's not the one going next who is a bad teammate. If you have 2 useless teammates, the game is doomed whether one of you suicides or not. But yes, if your goal is to "prove" that ridiculous number of 65% by any means, you could discard such results in order to boost the result to the intended favor, the excuse you have to use in this case does not even seem that absurd! Convenient.
64.8% escape rate
I can prove it being 100%, I will just have to use a little more absurd excuses for why I had to discard every game that didn't end in 4out, and also why I counted every 1k as a 0k (because obviously the killer just tunneled or camped the poor guy, so it doesn't count!), and maybe even how I counted every survivor DC as an escape, because technically the survivor escaped his faith by leaving the game! As you can see, this method is quite versatile.
You are not proving me wrong, you are confirming my points.
Yup, if you discard every point where I prove you wrong, then indeed, my agreement rate for your takes is 64.8%.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745627#Comment_3745627
SWF can not prevent the Killer from doing anything for 4 minutes.
Also, "other people are toxic and I want to be able to retaliate no matter who else is affected by it" is one of the most insane takes I've seen in this forum.
Being left to bleed out is not an SWF only experience and I think it is even worse for solo que because you can't just talk about something else in the time. You complain so much about solo que but are against changes that would help solo aswell because you are worried that you can't be as mean to SWF as you want to. Seems like cutting of your nose to spite your face to me.
Also if you against a 3man or a duo and tunnel them mercilessly the solo que players in the lobby are negativly affected aswell because it is unlikely to make it to endgame when someone dies early (not mentioning that over time there must be a decent amount of solo players that you have mistaken for SWF).
And you are not preventing anything, if anything you validate them in their toxicity.
Nice of you to completely change the subject of the discussion, but my point stands: bleeding out is the killer's reflection of survivors' teabagging, blind and stun spam, saboing and other BM, so it would be unjust to remove one without addressing the other.
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It must be region based, I guess people over NA always say gg to each other, while in EU it's homo homini lupus est, based on my experience.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745459#Comment_3745459
The killer DCing is a 4 out, and like I said, being such a bad teammate that you disconnect or suicide on hook is part of the problem of SoloQ: Survivors themselves.
Again, this doesn't invalidate any of the points I made.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745543#Comment_3745543
I don't know what you understand by "try to play as a team", but if you quit at first chance, then obviously you weren't trying to play as a team. In fact, you weren't trying to play at all. So, I don't know how that contradicts anything of what I said, even less when you seem to agree with this being on the survivor.
But I can rephrase what I said to be more specific: "Who would have thought that if you are good at the game, have good game sense, and try to play as a team without quitting the moment things don't go how you want, would make you and your team mates win more games even in SoloQ?"
The killer DCing is a 4 out
The killer DCing could be anything, even BHVR don't count such games. Most killers DC when they have a way to take 1-2k if they try, sometimes a hopeless game for killer turns into a 4k in the end. It's hypocritical to count killer's DC but not to count survivors DC, it's a plain statistic manipulation to get the desired result.
disconnect or suicide on hook
Is there really a difference between suiciding on hook within 1 minute of a trial and being tunneled out of the trial within 1 minute? The end result is the same. And most of the times, survivors go next because of objective reasons you personally might not have noticed, like seeing auras of half of their team hiding in bushes.
Again, this doesn't invalidate any of the points I made.
You used an "experiment" of a guy who blatantly manipulated the counted escape rate as an argument, this is what I replied to. If you only count desirable outcomes while discarding undesirable ones, you will get any result you wish. You should not use such "data" as an argument, soloQ will never get close to 60% escape rate outside of heavily rigged accounting.
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"my way of being toxic" is merely a retaliation to what SWF bully squads do. If SWFs have one thousand and one ways of making the life of a killer miserable, might as well keep at least some ways of returning the favor. It actually stops the toxicity from spreading too far: every survivor wannabe bully will think twice before teabagging, blinding, saboing, etc, if they know the killer has a way to get back at them. Slugging is the best, if not the only, way of self-defense for killers at the moment.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745452#Comment_3745452
I assume you are talking about teabagging at the exit gate, @oxygen already made a suggestion for that in the comment section of this post.
If you are talking about teabagging in general: The Killer equivalent to survivor teabagging is also teabagging (ghostface, pig) or humping. If you have a good suggestion to fix both I'm happy to hear.
That's the point, slugging (with humping or not) is a direct counter to teabagging. You can't give survivors the ability to dodge it without giving the same for killers, it would just break the game balance completely.
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@Batusalen said:
The reason why SoloQ is in that state is because of survivors themselves. Not matchmaking, not balancing, not how killers play, just themselves.
Average survivors with low game sense (specially not making the right decision at the right time) and not playing as a team (including bringing perks that only benefit them and not even help progressing the true objective, that is doing gens) is what make most SoloQ games a true hell to play. Then, instead of trying to get and do better, they complain about the "40% average escape rate" and how the game is killer sided without understanding what an average means or that they are most likely in the lower half of it.
Coincidentally, Hens just uploaded a video today about the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je3AQGuG2C8&ab_channel=Hens
Who would have thought that if you are good at the game, have good game sense, and try to play as a team (which is the main strength of survivors, being 4 vs 1) would make you and your team mates win more games?
He said himself he discarded every game where a survivor dies too quickly for his liking, and counted every game where killer DC'd as a 4out. If you manipulate statistics diligently enough, you can even get 100% escape rate if you wanted to.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
At this point I think the reduction of hooks is needed, or at least increasing the distance between them.
So that survivors get slugged from the get-go, instead of just in the end-game? Interesting proposal.
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@SunaIIanu said:
Making it bannable is excessive, but it should be fixed.
Maybe something like when every survivor is on the ground and you have been slugged for a minute, press a button to die instantly.
Survivors die instantly when all hit struggle phase to not waste the Killers time, so why is it okay that the killer wastes survivors time?
For the people that say hooking is sometimes not possible: An option to die would still mean the survivor dies so it is the Same outcome.
What would be the corresponding action for the killer who is getting teabagged then? "Press button to annihilate the teabagging survivor"?
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744673#Comment_3744673
Survivors also can't put killers into the dying state. The two roles are completely different. There doesn't need to be parity between the two. I'm down for discussions on perks, but it shouldn't be based on what the other side has.
As far a killer goes, Lightborn shuts down all blinding builds and certain killers make healing either impossible or counter-productive. So it's not completely unheard of.
Survivors also can't put killers into the dying state
SWF bully squads on comms can put the killer into such a hopeless state that essentially feels like a dying state.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744673#Comment_3744673
If your build is comprised of four aura reading perks
A) It'll still take four Distortions to actually disable them, not one.
B) You're going to burn through those Distortion tokens
and
C) You're not playing for keeps to begin with. Your meme build does not warrant nerfing Distortion.
Aura reading is a meme build? Can't even tell if you are being serious now. I guess slowdown perks are also "meme build" then and the next survivor will get a perk that just nullifies all generator regression.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744673#Comment_3744673
My main perks are Empathy and Alert, and sometimes I chuck on Deja Vu, then perks like Mindbreaker and Ultimate Weapon render them useless. That's okay though because no one is forcing me to run those perks, I make a choice to put all my eggs in one basket.
Mindbreaker and UW don't take away your aura reading perpetually for the whole trial, they only turn it off under specific conditions and only for a few seconds. The proper analogy would be something like "hiding your aura while the killer is carrying a survivor", not "hiding your aura any time and indefinitely" as it is now.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744673#Comment_3744673
But your build is a choice of yours
Also, there are a few aura perks that eats up Distortion tokens by a lot, such as Gearhead, Eruption and the new Weave Attunement
But your build is a choice of yours
Doesn't answer the question. Will killers ever get a perk that keeps survivors permanently exhausted (without being hex etc)? Will they get a perk that always turns a deep wound into actual downed state? Not to mention there are no survivor builds created only about one of these. Having one single perk disabling the whole playstyle and builds and forcing the killer to stand AFK in the basement for the whole trial once they don't find anyone with Lethal Pursuer is not a healthy game design.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744662#Comment_3744662
It doesn't turn off half of killer perks though. Not to be mean but If distortion is that oppressive for you then you probably should play perkless for a while to enhance your game sense. Survivors usually always make the same moves, heal in the same areas, like to run the same loops depending on the map. Distortion is a healthy perk that you can burn through the tokens usually and won't even bother you with proper game sense.
If your build is built around aura reading, one single perk actually just makes you perkless. What killer perk can do the same with whole survivor builds?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744662#Comment_3744662
Mindbreaker and Blood Echo
They are conditional, while Distortion works unconditionally out of the box.
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If survivors have one single perk that turns off half of killer perks, can we have the same for killers? Like a perk that keeps all survivors permanently exhausted or something? Without it being a hex, of course, since Distortion is not a boon either.
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@board24jason123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744603#Comment_3744603
so your wanting another nurse like S tier killer who can blink through objects and get free hits and downs?? The thing is we don’t need another nurse like the devs can’t even work on their low tier killers who doesn’t have the same advantage as nurse. Ghostface Onryo or Pig can’t even reach at the high level as nurse
Yup, Nurse's blinks are "free hits". That's probably why she has the lowest kill rate in the game, the hits are so cheap the Nurse thinks they are beneath her dignity and refuses to take them.
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@Caiman said:
Every week is a new thread about how soloQ sucks and the apocalypse is happening.
It only shows how determined the devs are in doing their best to completely ignore any issue concerning soloQ, so that by every passing week the problems only get worse.
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Pro tip: teabagging the killer drastically increases the chances of slugging in the endgame.
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When you call a killer too weak, provide footage of playing AGAINST him, not AS him. It's easy to call for buffs for your favorite killer, but it's one-sided and not constructive.
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Might as well just remove all the bp offerings and apply a universal x5 modifier for bps, if it's such a big issue for you.
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@solarjin1 said:
In my experience the vast majority of ggs come from the winners
And only from them, by the way, never getting back a corresponding gg from the other side.
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How are these kind of threads still not getting old and gather a ton of replies?
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Before you ever evaluate a killer, play AGAINST him, not AS him. Otherwise your "feels like" will always be biased and won't actually tell anything.
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@Eleghost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742943#Comment_3742943
it's not really a comeback mechanic when they're hiding in some corner dropping and picking up an item with distortion
That's exactly because there are NO comeback mechanics in this game, so 2v1 is a lost game, and there is nothing left for each survivor to do but to wait the other one to die and get the hatch.
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So instead of providing survivors with some kind of come back mechanic, you want to punish those who want to survive. And then you will create a thread about "why are all soloQ survivors giving up 1st hook all of a sudden???" or "why does my killer queue take so long???
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60% target kill rate happened.
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All new maps have a lot of pallets, but all of them are trash that can be ignored. You can't loop any of those rocks for more than a single loop. This is their new map design philosophy: a ton of garbage pallets instead of a few really strong loops.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742685#Comment_3742685
If you're finding this many killers annoying, you might not actually enjoy the game at all.
Nice strawman attempt, but no.
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One killer would not be enough. The number of annoying killers is astonishing at the moment. You have Legion, Doctor, SM, Clown, Knight, Twins, Huntress, Trapper at the bare minimum of requiring the block.
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Remote unhook
Remote generator repair
You can endure any hit (endurance on demand)
The killer gets 15 seconds of 150% haste, but is stunned for 15 seconds
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No point in adding something only a few dozens of people will ever use. The game already has the ability to "thumb up" a player in the report menu, and nobody uses it. The reverse system of -reps would be in much higher demand though, but then you would get 4 notifications after every killer game.
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Survivors hate it because it's not fun when it happens to you. Even though it's a legitimate tactic, it's obnoxious for the survivor side, so many people take is as a form of BM, while many killers actually do it as a form of BM.
Some people teabag on the hatch, as well as at the gates and even at every pallet, intentionally to make the killer feel bad. Some people do it because they are toxic, while others do it as a retaliation, because they were bled out and BM'ed by the killer in the previous game, while killers often BM, slug and bleed out as a form of retaliation for previous games where they were teabagged, blinded and BM'ed in other ways. It's a vicious cycle of being toxic to each other. You can ignore it or become part of it, either way you will sometimes be on the receiving end of it, meaning you WILL be BM'd by survivors and by killers from time to time no matter how nice you play, so do with it as you personally want.
As for the root of the issue, it's probably SWF, because those people usually BM the most, as it's easier to BM when you have an advantage.
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I always say gg after every game where I tunnel the first survivor out of the game as soon as possible, slug for 4k and bleed the last one alive, before hooking and slapping him while nodding of course, because I'm a good sport and a kind person. Too bad survivors are usually not so sportsmanlike and nice in response for some reason, but I guess some people just like being toxic.
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You will get destroyed by SWFs rushing gens in mere second with this build. Practice shows you need to play as sweaty as possible during this event, in order to achieve 4k, which will get you more points that 8 or less hooks with 4 escapes and 2 minutes of teabags at the gates.
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I guess we will need some content-creators to make a few videos about this bug before it gets noticed by the devs.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741862#Comment_3741862
I'd say we can discount your points because they don't match the official stats. You say that some of your mates are new, so they shouldn't be high MMR.
4man SWF overall only has a 3% higher escape, so your experience does not match the official stats.
You mean those "stats" they provided once without any evidence, those "stats" that basically say "the game is balanced and the devs are doing a pretty good job so far", the "stats" that contradict with general experience of most players, those stats, right?
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If you play killer for long enough, you will encounter so many SWF bully squads with flashlights and sabo builds, that you grow tired and start playing just to make survivors feel miserable. If you play soloQ survivor for long enough, you will eventually get fed up with killers who let their steam out on you after being destroyed by SWF. Only as SWF you can actually enjoy the game as the apex predator of it. And the devs are only making the issue worse by buffing SWFs, like they did in the recent patch with sabo builds, so this is probably the reason of increased toxicity for the last few weeks.