JohnWeak
JohnWeak
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https://youtu.be/9sp_0PCdSOo?t=312
Look at the hand... who on earth is playing like this ? There is not a single pro gamer out there using a mouse like this. He is obviously using 20000 DPIs... and still he needs to do huge movements in tight angles...
Skill is not involved here, i mean not as much as ppl think. It's all about the DPI settings and huge movement. I don't know why BHVR is forcing Blight Players to to 50 cm mouse flick to do 90 degrees turns with 20k DPIs...
Doing the same with 5 cm mouse flick with 400 DPI wouldn't change the skill ceiling. It would just allow more players to play the Blight effectively.
ATM playing Blight requires way too much articulations involvement. Play him regularly and you will end up with musculoskeletal disorders in less than a year, mark my words.
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@dallasmedicbag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557649#Comment_2557649
Is it a lot harder to hug tech right now or has it been the same? Looking down at a certain angle of the wall allows you to slide along, but for me it's inconsistent.. i hope it's my lack of skill and not actually blight having terrible bugs
Blight is totally broken.
Half the time he will slide against an object instead of bouncing even though you look straight at the object.
And yes, Blight cannot do 90 degrees turns properly anymore.
Blight is unplayable at high MMR, you won't be able to win any trial.
And community saying he is a tier S killer... of course lol
Against good survivors he is just a garbage tier F M1 killer. No wonder you will never face a Blight at high MMR. It has been weeks i haven't seen a single Blight.
Add to this the fact that 90% of the community will never be able to play him efficiently as you need 9000 DPI, which is not ideal when you play any other characters or any other game and if you use a lower DPI, no one has enough space to move the mouse enough.
Terrible design implementation, clearly.
If as a survivor i face a Blight, i know it's an ez win.
What is the point to create a huge map control killer while he cannot catch any survivor in any loop ?
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@SaltyNooty said:
Ah, another one of these - Survivors are OP because they got a new character with a powerful Perk.
Wanna know what I say? About goddamn time. If you're not in a SWF, MANY Solo Q players have to PRAY TO GOD that they dont get potato teammates. For survivors, it's a breath of fresh air to know that if one of your teammates have Circle of Healing or Shadowplay, You can counter certain killers. Now, the only valid point here that you could make would be about the killer you play and how you play.
If you find yourself constantly getting bullied and or losing without a single kill, chances are, you need to get better at the game then make a discussion post about how survivors control the game. We reallllllllllllllllly dont because the Nurse, Spirit and Blight have something to say. Nemesis, A good pyramid head and huntress would also like to chime in. What really invalidated your post was the fact you said ' Killers are the main attraction, so why dont they have a higher power. ' They do, chances are, you just don't know to use it like others do. They dont need a higher power if they're actually played correctly and have proper perk match-ups that suit your taste.
It's the fact that many of the killers in DBD want them to be so broken that Survivors dont stand a chance that baffles me because that says something and it's a term i haven't had to use in a while but you lack the skill to actually close the gap. It's really showing how much you just want to kick back, flick a button and then down someone in an instant. If that's your style, go play bubba; but don't expect to get anything good out of it.
Make survivors OP because when i get potatoes i loose the trial. Okay bro.
Level up and you won't get any potatoes.
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@Beaburd said:
My biggest problem with boons is Circle of Healing, and how it gives a Self-Care that's twice as fast as Self-Care to your entire team. I mean, giving everyone in the area "We'll Make It" is strong too, but I don't mind that effect myself.
If they reduced self-heal times from Circle of Healing to 32 seconds when it's granting you the ability, I'd be fine with the perk. You can give survivors the 16 second heal if they run Self-Care in conjunction with this perk by doubling the 0.5 efficiency of Self-Care though.
Until then, I don't think this perk can ever be considered fair.
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I mean look at it this way:
CoH takes 16 seconds to self heal, and Self-Care takes 32 seconds.
That's a 16 second difference between them, meaning as long as you're within 16 seconds of travel time from the boon, your entire team is getting a faster version of Self-Care regardless of where they are in the map.
However in 16 seconds you can run 64m (4m/s * 16s). Add on another 24m to account for the effective radius of the totem and that means that using CoH for self-healing instead of Self-Care is more efficient as long as you're, at most, 88m away from it.
Now, for reference, Empathy is a 64m and covers the entire map basically. 88m means that as long as the totem is up, it will almost assuredly ALWAYS be more time efficient to run and use it than Self-Care in whatever spot you're at.
Now imagine being a hit and run killer specifically who has to face everyone with super Self-Cares from a single persons perk.
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In addition to the above, killer time is much more valuable than survivor time. Expecting them to hunt down and break these potentially infinitely respawning totems that grant super versions of Self-Care to literally everyone is unrealistic and arguably impossible.
In that way, I think boons (or CoH in particular) are too oppressive right now.
Reduce the self-heal time so it's not just so blatantly overwhelmingly good to the point it overshadows dedicated self-healing perks by miles and distributes it to everyone for free and I think it'll be in a good spot.
Let's add to this :
The totem is then more effective than self care at a radius of 88m, for the whole team.
Let's do the maths : area effectiveness = 24000 m2
Twice the size of the biggest maps...
I see boons like a different version of what devour hope could be : every 3 hooks (tokens), a dull totem becomes an hex; all survivors are exposed till the totem is cleansed. If 3 tokens are eraned before the hex totem is cleansed, once cleansed a new dull totem, if available, will become an hex, using the 3 stocked tokens.
I guess survivors would cry a lot with such an infinite Devour Hope perk. So why should there be an infinite fountain of youth on the map ? Sometimes there are even two boons...
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@GannTM said:
I will admit that they are strong but I just don’t think they’re OP. I actually really like the gameplay around boons as it requires setup preparation and the survivor has to go out of their way to activate the perk. It’s also a new gameplay element which spices it up. Killers can also hear boons and it takes them just a second to break it. You will probably say that the survivor can put it back easily but they still have to spend time doing it.
I’ve felt like at least COH has a chance to be meta because of its nature in helping the whole team out which I’m honestly very glad to see because we need more variety in the meta. Maybe COH can be toned down a little where it decreases self healing speed but I think it’s honestly fine.
Dropping a chase to snuff a boon = 1 minute lost. It's not because you need 3 seconds to snuff it that you have only lost 3 seconds. You have lost a chase, if it was a 50 seconds chase you basically lost 50 seconds...
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@deadbyknightfall said:
i been playing him now non stop i am having a blast playing him and from my pov he is supeeeer strong what do you other killers think?
He is tier C at best, totally useless against good survivors.
The box is useless as if one survivor takes it, he/she still can do gens without resolving it for the entire trial. The chains only affect the survivor holding the box... the rest of the team is free.
Once the box is neutralized, Pinhead M2 is extremely weak as it doesn't even slow down enough the survivor to compensate the fact that the killer stays still during the cast...
So against average survivors that can't handle the box, he is good as once the chain hunt is triggered, everything go south but without the box he is basically a M1 killer that can be looped for 3 minutes.
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Fair would be a majority of trials ending with 2k and 8 or 10 hooks.
To reach this goal, some tweaks are needed for pallets/windows number, jungle gym layouts, map size and some perks rework.
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@Nos37 said:
Leave solo survivors out of this. Just say SWF
Solo survivors at high MMR is like facing a good enough SWF...
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"The game is balanced as it is !"
"Trapper needs a nerf, the recent addons changes are too strong"
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@Crazewtboy said:
As frustrating as it is, the answer shouldn't be to answer the toxicity with more toxicity. The devs check this forum more often than you think. Between that and escape stats I'm sure the Boons will get changed very shortly
I don't think they check anything.
Boon totems during PTB : most killers have said it's OP
At release ? Nothing changed.
After release : most killers have said it's OP
Last streams ? They didn't even talked about boon totems
Lol...
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2604200#Comment_2604200
Your math is a bit off because you’re assuming there are equal numbers of average players and top tier players when you just take a straight average of the two. Even if you assume that at low to average skill the killers are getting 3-4 kills median results and at top tier survivors are getting 0-1 kill results, there are significantly fewer top tier players than low to average skill ones, so the overall numbers would be a weighted average between the two with a much greater weight toward the more numerous low-to-average bucket. It would be more like 90% of games are 3-4 kills and 10% of games are 0-1 kills with weighted average about 3.
Also your definition of “winning” is a bit different than what the devs are intended the game to be. They want the most common result to be some survivors live and some die, with everybody living or everybody escaping being the least common outcomes. But for that to be the case it implies generators being finished and exits open is going to be the most common result among equally skilled players, meaning that even if a killer plays well they should expect the doors to be open more often than not if the survivors also play well. Expecting it to be a 50/50 chance of the doors opening doesn’t match that design goal of some live and some die most games.
Finally keep in mind that, since there are far fewer high skill players than average ones, no matchmaking system is going to be able to consistently get a high skill killer a match against high skill survivors all the time (assuming it isn’t making you wait for ages to get a match every time.) You’ll frequently be facing lower rated players just because there often won’t be high skill players currently available for a match. Which means high skill killers will still have above average kill rates in their matches and high skill survivors will have above average escape rates. It’s just statistics, it has nothing to do with playstyles. That’s why for instance someone like Otz has something like 4 kills as his median outcome as killer and escapes 70-80% of the time as survivor, there just aren’t enough players at his skill level to make those numbers close to the overall averages of 50/50 that the game as a whole experiences.
I’m not saying you have to like the game or how it’s balanced, I’m just saying that your design goal isn’t the devs’ design goal and you estimates of why the numbers for high skill players are what they are is probably a bit off.
We don't know anything about the skill repartition. In every game, all MMR system tend to give a Gaussian function distribution so i assume that DbD is the same : the majority of the playerbase is at an average MMR and there are as many high MMR players than low MMR players. But that's just a guess as we don't know it. Anyway, as i have said already, streamers with 8k hours cannot win properly anymore, they need to tunnel to do so while prior to the SBMM they didn't.
For your balance definition i agree with you but fact is at high MMR the most common result is 3 to 4 escapes and sometimes you will get a 4k.
You should check the Dowsey vs Oracle and Truetalent vs Oracle videos on Youtube : that's how the game is balanced... If you continue to believe that the game is balanced after seeing those videos, it's not logic anymore and we slide to something we could consider as faith or belief...
In one of the last Q&A, BHVR gave the win condition they have chosen : 0/1k = loss; 2k = draw; 3/4k = win. It's as simple as that, number of hooks doesn't count. Otz has explained it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fsHR0siSY8And for the last argument my experience says otherwise. I have 2 really high MMR killers, Blight and Pyramid Head. Most of my matches are against SWF (same nationalities) and when not, all 4 survivors are insanely good at looping, spreading on the map etc...
Sometimes, it's true, i end up against below average players with those 2 killers but it's "rare", like 15% of the time and that's the trial i get 4k easily, which is lame as well.
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@Seraphor said:
SBMM, as reductionist as it is being based on kills/escapes, is still way better than the old rank match making.
I'm not sure if other people are genuinely experiencing something very, very different to me or they're just falling prey to confirmation bias and blaming all of their shortcomings of SBMM, but the game has been more or less the same, or slightly better, than it used to be with ranks. There's still those games where I feel put out, but the far extreme scenarios (where I'm steamrolled by seal team teabag or I noobstomp a bunch of potatoes) have greatly reduced.
Here's a tip; if you lose, suck it up and play another game. Do not; have a strop and try to deflect your experience onto other agencies such as "killer was a toxic camper", "survivors were toxic SWF" or "SBMM doesn't work!"
I think that players' experience might differ depending the skill level they play at.
For what i know about the game, i guess that :
- at low MMR, the experience is terrible for the survivors and that they think the killers are way too OP.
- at an average MMR, i think that it's the best experience you can get, really balanced trials not because the game is balanced but because the players on both sides are not good enough to exacerbate the unbalance of the game = unchanged experience.
- at high MMR, the experience is terrible for killers as they can't get kills without camping early.
You can clearly see that the experience has changed a lot at high MMR as many streamers have stopped to play killer, some started to camp and tunnel early and some that refuse to use those cheap mechanics are loosing almost all their trials.
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Rank 1 survivor meant nothing as it was just a result of grinding. SBMM, as broken as it is, is more accurate in the skill evaluation, especially for trioQ and SWF players.
As said before, there has never been any hard cold datas for us to know exactly what is going on in the game, especially when the old rank system has never evaluated the skill level of a player.
SBMM stats are way more accurate and still, BHVR doesn't provide the standard deviation so datas are impossible to use.
You should learn what is the standard deviation and how statistics are working before talking and calling someone ignorant.
Finally, you had 0 argument. You didn't provide any facts, you didn't provide anything in the end. So i will end up it here :
You have implied that i was stupid with your sarcasm, and now you continue adding that i'm ignorant (and even that i'm mentally disabled). Fair enough i guess as you seem to be an expert to determine when something is fair or not :).
But clearly you don't know how this game works, even with 1600h and you proved it in your comments.
Attacking someone is easier than providing any viable argument. =)
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2604200#Comment_2604200
I like how you keep putting words into my mouth, implying I have ever said the game was balanced. It's cute. I do enjoy that you don't have the intelligence to comprehend the concept of an anecdote. It's sad, really. Allow me to explain it simply:
Things that happen to individuals are not useful as evidence in and of themselves. Your personal general trends do not matter in the grand scheme of things. BHVR has posted stats. Actual, tangible, real data collected from thousands of hours and thousands of players. And it said you are wrong. No amount of "but my experience" can dispute cold hard numbers. Deal with it.
And now you shift the evidence as you want 😂. So i will quote what you have said.
"even the cream of the crop survivors die more times than they live"
Here you clearly state that individuals great survivors are dying more than surviving. So you use an argument around individual performances.
"Things that happen to individuals are not useful as evidence in and of themselves."
And here you say the individual performances are meaningless.
And i don't know about which data you talk about as BHVR has never released a single time usables datas. Average without standard deviation can't be used as you can't know if most trials end up with 2k or if they mostly end up with 4k or 0k (still the average is around 2k here).
And camping being the best strategy, if all high MMR killers are camping, they will get 2k+ most of the time but it doesn't mean it's balanced.
What i see at high MMR as a survivor is that killers can't win, even when i soloQ and face well known streamers, they get 0k even when they don't do any mistake.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1190118665@4h44min45, me soloQ against Truetalent, 0 mistake with his doctor, he played optimally and never failed one chase.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1190365406@1h49min35
DuoQ with a friend of mine against a french high MMR killer main. Once again, he cannot do anything even though he did one mistake to secure the 1k.
And it's like this 90% of the time if no one DC or if there is no camp/tunnel.
If you have never experienced high level of play on any side, you cannot know how it is, balanced wise.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3J-WImbQIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uf8BExJWWc
@Feyd The game is so balanced right ?
Even when survivors have perks/items/character restrictions, killers can get 3 hooks only but everything is normal in your close minded world.
Here is my wisdom, just look at the video and learn. And don't come telling those killers are not good as they all are 10 times better than you, and most of us, will ever be.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2604166#Comment_2604166
You mean they have to try now instead of steamroll newbs all day? The horror!
So your stance then is what? You should never 4k ever? No team should ever completely escape? That's what being stomped means.
The game is asymmetrical, meaning balance is very tricky. Most games will go one way or the other. Everyone out or everyone dead. Finding somewhere in between means you got a couple kills near the end, typically. Once one person is dead, the game goes downhill fast for the survivors unless they're already fairly close to escaping.
So please, in your grand wisdom, share with us how you see the game should go. Cause if you want to win without having to sweat, you aren't playing against equally skilled opponents and you're back to newb stomping.
Nope they have to camp and tunnel. Getting stomped doesn't mean to get a 4k or 4 escapes. Getting stomp means 4 kills with 3 gens left or 4 escapes with 3 hooks only. That's what getting stomped means.
Where did i say i wanted to win without sweating ? You are clearly a baby at the game and i guess you don't even have 500 hours into it. You can't even understand what you read as you do petty accusation on my comments motive.
At high MMR most trials will end up with 3 to 6 hooks if you don't camp nor tunnel.
Before talking you should just go high skill and then, when you will have experienced what is the real state of the game you will be able to tell us how the game is.
ATM, thinking that the game balance is okay means clearly that you are just a noob, on both sides.
For what reasons we, the high MMR players, should listen to your selfish opinion while the WHOLE high MMR community, survivor and killer mains, know the game is way too much survivors sided ?
If you feel the balance is good when you play survivor, let me tell you, you are playing at a low skill level. Survivor has never been so easy to get 3 to 4 escapes every trials.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2604136#Comment_2604136
There's so much exaggeration here it's comical. When I play my most commonly played killers(doc/Legion), I don't really have these kinds of problems. Sure, occasionally you get stomped. You're SUPPOSED TO. You can't win every game.
There have already been a slew of nerfs to looping. Windows blocking, windows getting holes in the wall next to them, less pallets, pallets not dropping until you're past them, so on and so on.
This is the kind of poster that gives all you killer mains a bad reputation. He won't be happy until there are no windows, pallets, or survivor perks and we all just go down in under 30 seconds. He's spiteful because he doesn't know how to play well and wants to punish us puny survivors for daring to earn the name.
Exaggerated for the below average players, playing at a low to average MMR.
Go play at high MMR and you will come back here crying.
Do you know that players like Truetalent, Otz, Dowsey etc can't win a single trial without camping and tunneling ?
Those guys are all top 5% killers and they cannot win against good enough survivors.
And no, in a balanced environment with a working SBMM, you should never get stomped or stomp anyone, that's the point of it.
And i'm not a killer main, i'm a 50/50.
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Ye well to resume the state of the game, let's say it's Camp by Daylight.
- You play survivor ? The first survivor hooked will be camped and tunneled in almost every trial.
- You play killer ? You are forced to camp and tunnel the first survivor hooked or else you will need to do a perfect game to get 1k, maybe 2k and sometimes you won't even get one kill...
The experience became garbage since the SBMM release. I had hope for this system, especially to mix players of the same level but BHVR didn't bring the balance changes needed to improve the experience in a competitive environment.
- Unbalanced maps should have been disabled and reworked : standard size for every maps, balanced layout, all killers' power usable on any map
- Number of pallets/windows should have been adjusted : 30% less pallets, 50% less windows
- Gen speed should have been adjusted as well, like increasing the time needed to finish them solo to 100 seconds
Well, the game is in the worst state it has been for years now. Some needed changes have been made prior to the SBMM release, but this SBMM negated every balance changes. Survivors are way, way too OP.
Just check on Twitch, almost no one is playing killer anymore. Some viewers are asking to the streamers why and all the streamers say the same thing : "it's impossible to play fair as a killer and i have to try hard every match, not funny, not interesting to watch and boring gameplay so i won't play killer till they fix it."
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@비헤브 said:
After this MMR patch, many killer users left.
However, the developer will judge that the game was played normally with the separate statistical data they created.
The imbalance in matching is now at a very serious level.
Exactly.
Developers are showing the stats they want. They even created an "environment" where bias stats are shown and considered as the absolute truth.
They even go further by mixing trials to determine an average kill rate without showing the standard deviation...
An average kill rate of 2 with a deviation of 2 would show that the game is totally unbalanced however, an average kill rate of 2 with a deviation of 0.1 would show that the game is perfectly balanced.
Every good players on this forum, survivor or killer main or 50/50, perfectly knows that most trials are ending up with ez 4K or ez 4E. So the deviation is around 2 and clearly way higher than 1.
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Yes survivors have ez objectives and still they have way too much assistance. Second chance perks are way too strong especially when all 4 have them equipped. And they are not even 2nd chance perks, they are a 3rd or 4th chance perks as they can use them many times during a trial.
In a balance environment, A top 0,001% killer should win 90% of his trials without camping/tunneling, just by playing smartly and planning a strategy around map control.
But that's not the case, the best killer players, when they don't play nurse, are forced to camp/tunnel early to win a trial and that's not normal and if they face a SWF, even with camping and tunneling they will still loose or end up with a draw.
When i see Otz, which is without a doubt a top 1% killer player, forced to camp and tunnel while he has never done it prior to SBMM is crazy. And he still has a hard time against potatoes that cannot loop properly...
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Nope, they were not high MMR, it was one of my first games with Pinhead so above average MMR i guess but they were boosted with the help of META perks.
I still won the game but i was like ten times better in chase with one of the weakest killer... Those players, in a balanced environment, would be below average MMR, they had no skill at all.
4Kíng most matches doesn't mean it is fair. All those survivors were trash in chase. They all use META perks which allow them to rank up to a fairly high MMR. That's the problem.
And they all gave me a hard time holding W or abusing META perks. So take the same perks and give them to 4 good survivors = you cannot win.
The last screenshot were against a russian SWF, i was better than them in chases but they were somewhat good. Not the best i have met but they knew how to loop but even though i outplayed them every-time individually, the 4 mans synergy was unbeatable not because they were better or smarter or whatever, just because the game design doesn't allow the killer to win against good enough survivors.
At the start of the trial, if the survivors spread on the map to have 1 in chase and 3 on a different gen, the game is over even before it started.
Add to this the fact that DH, Lithe, SB & DS are game changer perks. Exactly like NOED or Devour Hope but with those perks there is one totem to cleansed and it's done.
When you have 4 survivors with those perks, they gain 20 to 30 seconds chase for free. And this multiple times in the trial (At every chase in fact). Those perks alone, abused, are enough to win the trial without even trying.
Imagine a Devour Hope like : every time you gain 3 tokens (3 hooks), a dull totem becomes an HEX and devour hope is active. It would reduce the chase time by 20 to 30 seconds every 3 tokens. It would be OP right ? Then why allow all 4 survivors to have perks that allow them to extend chases for 20/30 seconds 3 times for each individual ? For the killer it's OP to reduce it but for 4 survivors it's okay to extend it ?
The huge problem is the mentality behind the balance (for the thing below, i precise that i'm not top 0,001%, clearly not, not even top 10% i guess).
In a balance environment, someone that is top 0,001% as a killer should win 90% of his trials without camping/tunneling. But that's not the case, the best killers, when they don't play nurse, are forced to camp/tunnel early to win a trial and that's not normal and if they face a SWF, even with camping and tunneling they will still lose or end up with a draw.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602335#Comment_2602335
We've only your account of the facts and a screenshot that doesn't support most of it.
- You don't know your mmr, let alone if it's high.
- You got a 2k. Mmr-wise, it's working as intended, even if I hate mmr.
- They chose McMillan. They sent everybody to a fair realm. Your objection is unfounded.
- Doubtful they're a swf, there's probably a duo at best and two solos running bond.
- The only disgusting item is the toolbox. The rest are fine, unless you're saying that survivors aren't allowed to bring items.
- Hating on bt and ds in 2021. I can't really stand to engage in that conversation again, I'm being honest. I'll just tell you this. You said you camped and tunneled at gens left. They brought perks for it. If they wouldn't have and then they came in the forum complaining, my money says you would've told them exactly to use bt and ds and that camp/tunnel are legitimate strategies.
- Then apparently you have problems with Lithe? Saboteur?! Really? Not to mention that Adren, Iron Will and CoH are useless against Plague.
- You say you played optimally. Due, you're dedicating two slots for an exposed build on a Killer whose power is to make survivors broken. Optimal might not mean what you think it means.
- And you have 2 meta perks yourself.
- My MMR is high with other killers. I often face well known streamers.
- All 4 were russians, probability there weren't a SWF is pretty small.
- Starstruck is strong with every killers, especially because they are never all 4 infected at the same time.
- Every item is a game changer. Just the medkit was useless here.
- Lithe is stronger than DH & SB in most situations lol, only average players think DH is stronger even though it is still strong.
- Being a killer and having 2 meta perks is different than 4 survivor with Meta perks.
- And i have played optimally as there was not a single chase lasting more than 30 sec.
I play survivor as well, facing strong re-known streamers and they loose all the time i face them, no matter what they do.
But i have read some of the comments you wrote on this forum, you always side with survivors which is funny as the whole experienced community knows that survivors are completely OP and that it's impossible to win a trial without the nurse or camping/tunneling.
I'm looking some streamers and when i see that the best of them are forced to tunnel hardly and to play dirty to win their trials, i know something is wrong, especially when they didn't play like this prior to SBMM.
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@El_Gingero said:
We've made good strides recently with changes to Wraith and Deathslinger, making them more fun to face. It got me thinking about other killers with problematic gameplay and what we could potentially do to remedy them.
Any suggestions?
I know he's not B tier but I think Trapper could use some tweaking. I don't find him to be OP by any means, however it's simply not fun getting caught in traps that are hard to see, and constantly keeping a look out for traps in general is tedious. This is exacerbated by his recent buffs, and perhaps we should start looking into ways of making him more fun
You continuously (the survivor mains) ask to nerf killers and then you come here crying because you get camped and tunneled.
Next step, when they will actually nerf all killers, you will come here to complain about 30 minutes queue times.
But don't worry, with the current state, there won't be any killer left after the Halloween event. No way that players continue to play as the frustration is immensely deep when you play killer atm as everything is unfair.
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Reviving this thread. Nothing has changed since the last update, just CoH in every game.
Here Russian SWF.
META perks abuse + they chose the map.
I would like to know how i'm supposed to win this ? I have played very well, didn't camp nor tunneled except when 2 gens were left.
Used my power efficiently, got many hooks, pretty much played optimally.
I have outplayed them in every loops fast enough and still it was impossible to get 3K. IMPOSSIBLE.
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@pseudechis said:
I haven't seen shadowstep much so far. Its mostly the healing boon.
However several games now, mostly those with shadowstep, have nothing coming up on BBQ for me when I hook someone.
Basically its either everyone's aura is hidden or they are all hanging around the hook. Its doesn't really incentivise me to leave, at least not very far.
The game has became a camp and tunnel fest. It happens 80% of the trials and i understand why the killers do it, it's impossible to win any trial without camping/tunneling.
Killers are way, way too weak now.
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Imagine you validate the R.P.D/The Game/Larry's maps and the boon totems for DbD... while at least 1/3 of the killers cannot use their power properly on those maps and that CoH removes half the features the killers can use to apply pressure (injuring and switch target or slugging).
Now that you see it's not an imaginary picture, you know they don't play at a skill high enough to take good decisions.
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M2 click allows you to teleport ;)
Seriously, for builds check Dowsey and Otz videos. And then you will just have to practice for the TP accuracy.
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@Bwsted said:
Every time you experience something all over, it gets less scary. It's not due to noob totems.
Never thought about it but ye reversed boon is noob.
Developers' joke was to call the most OP perks NOOB 😂
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This infernal grind is really boring.
When you play survivor and many killers, the amount of BP you need to have the perks needed to perform well is incredible.
But as always, the community has whined about it for 2 years, maybe 3 years and still nothing has been done...
Why are the perks in the bloodweb ? Why isn't there a perk list and we choose the perks we want to unlock from there, for like 10k rank 1, 20k rank 2 and 30k rank 3.
I have 1600 hours into the game and i have only 1 character tier 3. Can't get more as i play many killers and i don't have the time to play 2k hours a year...
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@SoylentPixie said:
Kindred. It won't save you but a good portion of matches it'll either save your team mates wasting their time or give them that exact opening where the killer might be distracted. We can't stop camping, and in some scenarios, i see the tactics in it, but when it becomes an epidemic (played 5 games and 4 of them were campers at the first hook in the match, worse yesterday) you just adapt to it. Run kindred and waste their time. I tend to sacrifice on the hook if it's a stealth player and I see someone coming towards me. I might accept the camp, but I refuse to feed it.
"Why should I have to run a perk to counter it?"
You don't have to, but if it's going to keep happening, its an option, kinda makes me feel less bad about spending my game just hanging out making kissy faces at the killer staring at me on hook.
Yup Kindred is pretty much a must have when you are soloQ or duoQ.
Killer is camping ? Gen rush.
I don't even understand why at high MMR so few players use it...
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To the survivor mains on this discussion. You have all wanted OP perks and killers nerfs. You have it now, don't be surprised that now all fair killers, that can't win anymore, have left the game and that only the huge campers/tunnelers are still here.
Yes survivor is unplayable now because every trials is a tunnel/camp fest.
But that's what you implicitly all wanted when you came here to say the killers were too OP.
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No way to counter it as it needs 14 seconds to be blessed and can be blessed an infinite number of times.
I have tried a strong totem build : thrill of the hunt, ruin, undying but at high MMR all totems are done in less than 2 minutes. 1 chase (1 hook) and you don't have totem anymore.
Till they don't nerf it you will pretty much need to camp/tunnel or to stop to play killer.
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@PandaChris said:
I never really camp or tunnel but it's happening more because thats what the game is evolving into. Just like how one of the best ways to escape is to gen rush. One of the best ways to swing a match in the killers favor is to camp and tunnel and kill a survivor out as quickly as possible to get a 3v1.
Not to mention killers who don't really camp and tunnel like myself are getting punished for it. Killers more and more get punished for trying to play "nice" with the additions to the game such as the healing boon totem. Leaving a survivor in an injured state in such a big healing meta especially in higher mmr just isn't worth it.
I feel like a lot of issues such as these are deeper game issues. It seems design decisions lately are shifting the game into a worse direction. I don't think anyone here would of thought hey you know what the game really needs right now? A new objective for the killer and another way for survivors to heal themselves.
Yup, many bad decisions have been taken lately.
- Releasing Pinhead with an inefficient power (summon of pain slow down doesn't compensate the fact that the killer is stopped while casting, it's a joke)
- SBMM release without some huge balance changes prior to the release
- Boon totems
That's terrible for DbD to the point there is almost no streamer that play killer while it was 50/50 a few months ago.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599910#Comment_2599910
"Semi" infinites aka not infinites.
Old Brand New Part was a lot stronger than old ruin.
Circle Of Healing is not as strong as old insta heals. They don't even server the same purpose. Just because you can heal with both, doesn't mean they are applied the same way.
Last but not least, I'm sure most killers on this forums always go against 4 men sweaty SWFs, and never seen a solo player in their lives, but in reality that's now how things go...
A lot of people have quit the game, and there are a lot of new players, so "SWFs are stronger now because they've been playing for 5 years", it's even rarer.
I disagree with you on pretty much everything but that's not a big deal.
But what i'm sure of and these are facts is that since the SBMM release :
- every survivor takes a strong item
- high skilled survivors are mixed together
The game has always been balanced around the fact that average to good survivors were matched together (in the old system). Now that each survivor is great at high MMR, the game needs to be balanced around it and atm it's not the case.
I have never struggled as much to get only 0, 1 or 2K... If i camp/tunnel i get a 3 to 4k but it's not fun for any side.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2598772#Comment_2598772
Spirit is useless if you are are low MMR going against high MMR survivors yes. She is not useless at all, but now you actually have to play smart and wont be carried by the lack of information she provided.
Also, saying killer is at it's worst it as ever been, you clearly werent here years ago. Old brand new part, actual insta heals, old DS, actual infinites.
It was exactly the same except there wasn't a SBMM system that now highlight all the flaws the game has balance wise.
- There were infinites, you still have semi infinite on many maps
- Brand New part gone, old ruin also gone
- Insta heal gone, replaced with CoH which is way stronger
- Less pallets = perk to restart pallets
And last but not least, the game is 5 years old now, survivors have improved individually but also in teamplay. The SWF you face today are ten times stronger than the one you would have met 2 years ago.
From my experience, i have never seen such lightning fast gen rush till the SBMM release.
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@Purgatorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599524#Comment_2599524
Just look at my videos on YouTube. My killer games are loss after loss after loss for many games until it throws me a pity bone. Then I may get a 2K then many more losses after that.
It seems my mmr does not go down no matter how devastating the game went for me.
Providing the link would help :p
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595255#Comment_2595255
Ah yes, because survivors dont have to walk to that specific area first and then back(because boons are more likely to be where objects are not) because they can teleport. Let alone that for a Boon to be effective, is for all 4 survivors to be injured and nearby the boon, at which point the killer should also be there, meaning the killer can snuff the boon and snowball.
I can even give you plenty of totem locations that arent even worth snuffing untill more than 2 survivors are injured, because walking there and healing up takes longer than just meeting up and healing on the spot. Meaning there is a very high potential for Boons to cost time for survivors if they dont play it efficiently. Even a higher potential than self-care. And we all know how much self-care can lose survivors the game because its not used properly.
Take a hit, use the speedboost to go around the area. Heal. Repeat.
Also there are always two CoH areas now, in every trial.
A map is 9000m2, 2 x CoH = 4000m2, almost half the map. And how long do you need to do 10 meters and be in the area ?
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@Sluzzy said:
Match after match, the killer wins very easily unless it is somehow a polished coordinated team. A skilled Huntress, Nurse, or Blight if they were honest would say they never ever loses unless it was some kind of pro team comes along. This is never talked about, it is sweeped under the rug.
Killers say all the time that high MMR is not fun, but raising your MMR is based on kills. I know why it is not fun, it is because you have to work hard for your kills. Contrast this with solo survivor in that no matter how hard you try to win, you won't regardless of your skill.
The irony is that killers will do their damnest to get kills and raise their MMR and then complain when someone escapes. Since MMR has been implemented, the amount of sweat has been off the charts. I have never seen a killer not slug the third to capture the last one remaining. If high MMR is so stressful as it is claimed to be, why would a killer wait actual minutes letting someone bleed to death while you find the last one. Your reward is only to increase your MMR. You still won. The gates was not opened.
I hope the devs are looking how easy it is for killers to increase their MMR and hopefully changing the hatch mechanic so it is not so killer sided. Nerfing killers in general or buffing survivors in general in such a way that SWF is not necessarily buffed but so in every match there is an opportunity to win.
If you are so scared about high MMR and waiting in queues for a long time, stop slugging, give survivors a chance. Take off slowdown perks. It's OK if a couple of survivors escapes. It really is OK.
If that's your experience, you clearly don't play at high MMR, sorry if i have opened your eyes...
I personally play both sides equally and when i play survivor, at High MMR, duoQ mostly, i win 80/90% of the trials : 3 escapes +.
If i play in SWF, it's above 95% win rate.
That's the way it is, survivors can't loose anymore unless they are inexperienced.
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@Mileena_Kahn said:
I’ve played solo que for most of my day and have noticed that myself and my teammates have been tunneled and camped in almost every match. The crazy part is that the camping starts At the beginning-middle of the game which makes no sense, I could understand if it was endgame then yeah… cause the killer has no other option. But players like this make the game extremely boring. I’ve noticed it’s mostly the nemesis players that do this. Keep in mind it’s SOLO QUE, so there’s no telling who’s going for the save, who should stay on what gen etc.
New META is around DH, BT, Circle of Healing.
The killer has no way to apply pressure anymore.
1 - Before Circle of healing :
Killer could injure a survivor or down a survivor and change target. It then applied huge pressure on the survivors as one was on ground, one had to come to help the downed teammate, one was in chase etc...
There were only one guy on a gen and well, if this one was injured as well, maybe he/she took the decision to come to the downed teammate to get some heal.
Huge pressure, no one on gen or only one on gen.
2 - With Circle of Healing : often 2 survivors with this perk
14 seconds to bless a totem. 14 seconds, it's really extremely low. 2 huge areas (2000m2) where everyone can heal.
Allow everyone to self-heal in the area @ 50%. Allow the 200% healing speed if a survivor helps you (absurd speed).
So what happens ? Killer cannot injure/down a survivor and change target as the injured/downed survivor will be respectively healed in 8 seconds (by a teammate), back on his/her feets in 8 seconds as well.
There is no pressure applied anymore by injuring/slugging someone. And most killers haven't got enough mobility to properly apply pressure on gens. Especially now that ruin/undying are useless.
3 - Conclusion :
The only way for killers to apply pressure is camping and tunneling.
Survivor mains should be ready as the current state of the game will bring more and more toxicity. I predict that in less than a week you will all have a terrible experience in every trials you will play. It will be camping and tunneling first hook 90% of the time.
And also get ready to soon have 20 minutes queue times as most killer players will stop to play.
I remember when some survivor mains, totally delusional, were saying on this forum that CoH wouldn't be META because it was not strong enough to outplay the old META perks... And i was telling them that they clearly don't know the game's mechanics if they think CoH is weak.
Honestly, it's clearly the strongest survivor perk atm. It's low risk (14 seconds to bless - infinite usage) and profit to the whole team with extreme heal speed.
And it's a good thing that the survivors' experience suffers greatly with the last update. Not because it's cool to see ppl struggling, surely not, but because survivor mains will finally understand that their enjoyment is tightly tied to the killer's enjoyment and capacity to perform well without using broken mechanics (camping/tunneling).
BHVR not fixing the global game balance = more and more camp/tunnel + longer queue times
BHVR fixing balance = no more camping/tunneling + instant queue times
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@Swoopie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597093#Comment_2597093
How about we make it so that killers need to hold M1 for 16 seconds to get rid of the boon, that also ends up destroying the dull totem? Plus decreade the already obviousl loud audio clue to make tham as hard to find as hexes are? That would be the minimal considering that survivors have to find and bless totems tht can easily take up to 1 minute.
1 minute to find a totem ? ye at low MMR.
And there are 4 survivors, 1 killer.
4 survivors can cover the whole map in 30 seconds top and they have a 3rd person view.
Killer has a FPS view and is alone, cannot cover the map.
You guys, do you even think ?
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@Akuuseru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597022#Comment_2597022
Yeah but like 30sec to escape, come back and boon it again
I just hope that the killer playerbase will have a 50% decrease during the next two weeks. I will be happy if survivor queues are 30 minutes long.
Game is unplayable for killers, we just need to all stop to play.
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@Akuuseru said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2H6XS32SZKPC/dbdpic4.png
4 Shadow step and 2 circle of healing. How am i even suppose to play against that ??!
I already hear the survivor only say: "Just break them" or "It's not OP because it takes a long time to boon the totem". LOL
I couldn't see their scratch marks because their totem covered all the map and when i broke them i heard that thunder sound 30sec later that told me that the totem was up again. It's literally uncounterable.
So i propose many things to nerf those boon perks:
- A cooldown of 80sec when a survivor boon a totem AND when the killer break a totem.
- Being able to apply only 1 boon to a totem (so only shadow step or CoH)
- Reduce the totem's range to 20 meters
Or just a simple nerf : that the killer break the totem when unboon the totem
In any case, this as to be fixed !
14 seconds to bless a dull totem mate, not 30.
You snuff it, you turn around, do 10 meters and the totem is up again. Game is pretty much impossible to play as a killer now.
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Tier S and Tier A killers are viable at high MMR guys and in my list, killers viable and might be viable are all tier S/A.
But as i have said it's for the general "casual" matchmaking. With the current state of the game, just Nurse is able to compete against good SWFs. All other killers would get 1 to 3 hooks.
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By viable i mean standard High MMR survivors you get at high MMR. Not SWF competitive teams and not always SWF.
But yes, for the Top 1% of the survivors, only the Nurse is viable.
Spirit won't do anything at that level and Blight will need 9k DPI which, as i have said, is an exploit.
Everyone say Blight is good but in the whole community i know only one good enough Blight player that is able to compete competitively, maybe 2 : Lilith and a Spanish guy.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/290538/game-became-simply-unplayable-as-a-killer
Boons arent gamebreaking. If a survivor sets up a boon, they would need to use it at least 5 times to cut it even in terms of time efficiency. If survivors need to reset a boon, they, on average, need to use it 5 times per blessing to gain time. If they use it more than 5 times on average, that's on you.
Nah, Blight got buffed even.
Hexes were always RNG, the only difference is that survivors now have reasons to start the match looking for totems rather than just searching the totem if they need to get rid of it. 4 survivors working together could clear all 5 totems within 1 minute anyway. Boons simply created a reason for solo survivors to do so too.
How did you determine the 5 times use to be effective ?
All survivors doesn't have self care but can still heal themselves.
Blessing takes 14 seconds... And it grants 100% healing speed = 16 seconds to heal against 32 seconds with self care.
So blessing 14 seconds + healing self = 30 seconds.
Only one use is needed to make it more efficient than self-care...
Boon totems gave the survivors a reason to look for totem right at the start bu when cleansing a totem they also add a safe area for them.
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@vacaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595166#Comment_2595166
This example you put is perfect because I'm self employed and there's months that i get this 10K$ and months that i even lose cash but somehow I get to eat each month because I don't have to spend all money in one month. Same with games, you win some you lose some and on average it "balances". By saying that I'm not supporting the balance around kills, i think its horrendous, I'm just following Behaviour's logic around balance.
😂
Yes but the balance should not be made through many trials.
A trial in itself should be balanced = tough fight for both sides ending with 1k to 3k.
BHVR thinks that a game you can't win is balanced if the next game is an ez 4k... But the feeling is that nothing is balanced.
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@vacaman said:
Killers still have a killrate above 50% so expect even more nerfs until it's "balanced" to this number since it's this what seems to be their idea of balance. Last stats they posted it seemed that killrate went down by quite a bit but its still far from 50%.
EZ to get a 50% kill rate with half game 4k against potatoes and the other half 0k against good survivors.
Average is 2k but still the game is unbalanced. If SBMM is working as intended, every trial should end up with 1k to 3k except some when one side or the other did a huge mistake.
But it's not the case, it's either 4k either 0k. Totally unbalanced.
If you earn 0$ a month and i earn 10k$ a month, the average is 5k$ but it doesn't mean you can eat this month 😅.
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@Prex91 said:
They are slowly change things. I hope they will fix solo q and facecamp "fast", decide to nerf broken things like items, boons, and some perks (built to last, prove they self, maybe dead hard), and reduce pallet spawns/ remove dead zones.
I agree with your post but man, the game is 5 years old and we are all still discussing things that should have been fixed during the BETA.
Honestly, 5 years after release and we still have :
- performance issues
- balance problems, tons of it
- bugs
- some things that are not server sided
5 ######### YEARS
Give me another successful multiplayer game that is/has been in an equivalent garbage state after 5 years ?
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@staffilokokk said:
You know what, for long time i play i frustrated that much i even visit forum , i just cant win, im playing killer all the time since i brough dbd many years ago, i faced many problems, but its was okay, because game somehow were balanced for both sides, i mean broken for both sides, and now i just cant win, im trying my best, im downing fast, but while im downing or chasing someone, 3 other people is on 3 other gens and is on other side of the map, and im a trickster dude, all healed and good, they are can goof around, cant stand a chase for a half a minute, im stil losing, i dont know what am i doing wrong, but its just happens, im playing this game as i usually do, playing it fairly for everyone and fun for me, but now i should sweat my ass off to get 4k? Im not frustrating about surviors doing what they are supposed to do, gens i mean, im frustrated about fact that impossible for me to win, and im doing my best every game, is it healing time is a little to much or something? Im feeling like im winning now only agains absolutely pepegs
I feel you. Everything is broken.
- healing is too fast, especially with the new boon totems
- too many pallets/windows
- survivors spreading to do gens = OP you cannot do much against it
- some maps are too big, others have too many jungle gyms
- items are too strong
DbD design is globally terrible in the today standards. I don't even understand how the game is still alive after all those failings while Evolve, an asymmetrical game that did everything better, died in 2 years only...
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Boon - Tinkerer : Grant 200% speed boost in repairing gens on the whole map. If snuffed, will teleport on another totem 3 times in a row. The 4th snuff will stun the killer during 130 seconds.
Survivor mains on this forum : "Boon Tinkerer is balanced"