InsatiableMop
InsatiableMop
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- InsatiableMop
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418603#Comment_2418603
You have not demonstrated that any of these games fit the parameters that you yourself set. So try again. With video this time, in case it's not obvious. :P
I mean I said the approach I take but sure, the amount of points should demonstrate enough I spread the love. By any means by the outcry against keys in this thread and their OPness out no counterplay though i should not have stood a chance in any of these games. But I will try to look through and see if I have any video just for you. and if not ill make sure to record next time i see a key pop up.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418593#Comment_2418593
Show me your games where you go from 0k to 4k with 1 gen left and a Key in play.
some of them are 2-3 gens left, its all about when you can force the bad situation with one hooked in your territory and the key carrier in your grasp
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418559#Comment_2418559
So your entire strategy revolves around having four people still alive with one gen left and prays that the person holding the Key didn't hide it first. Good strat for losing as a Killer.
very rarely lose as a killer friend, even if they did you have one slugged and one hooked its rather easy to win from there 9/10 times. We dont need to talk about how easy it is to win as a killer in general thats a different subject entirely
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418473#Comment_2418473
What do you propose, then?
force them to do all 5 gens in an area of the map you chose from the beginning for your 3 gen, when its coming down to the wire assuming you have someone hooked which is part of the flow of the game, slug the key holder and finish them off as they panic like lemmings trying to get him up as well as getting the person off the hook. by playing the game in a normal way you should only ever really have 1 person if that doing gens at any given time.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417874#Comment_2417874
Keys cut the work that needs to be done by all Survivors by 20% for each dead Survivor. Moris were no doubt stronger, but the two were still very much comparable and absolutely OP.
Hence the not tunneling one of them out right away part
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lol neat
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did a breakable wall get removed or something?
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Ive usually had it let me finish my game before getting the boot
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yeah...I just got picked up by a plague after failing a head on attempt lol prolly thought i rage quit.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418164#Comment_2418164
Absolutely im not camping it almost always going to bite you but if I'm using a high mobility killer ill go back that way
cool you picked up a chase and another survivor picked up the key now we are back to 3 man hatch escape
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418140#Comment_2418140
Your making the assumption that they are going to go for the key evertime and doing so more than likely puts you in a spot i can capitalize on like I said maybe I have BW maybe I'm running an end game build with neod maybe I put a hag trap on the key
So are you going to go pressure someone off a gen?
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418098#Comment_2418098
They not have to get off gens to pick up the giving me time I didn't have or maybe they get crazy and try picking it up while I'm in the area and now I've move from a kill into a chase that I possibly got a hit on.
I can't remember but if a survivor dies you don't see there item aura right only with Franklins
wont see the aura no but they will know where they died and the time spent so focused on one person they did enough gens to just leave witht he key thats the point.
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My pups
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418085#Comment_2418085
Maybe I have blood warden and a key has the potential to counter it so he needs to die to counter that potential
dying lets his team pick it up...again why that's not the way to go.
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I think a thing on keys could be they have to be equipped before the 45s mark, then the killer can adjust perks/prepare accordingly. Seems fair.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2418041#Comment_2418041
But people have giving you multiple reasons and your like no thats no enough. Some people want to just bm because they don't like key,others feel like they are op and have gave reasons why they feel this way. No moris and keys are made to speed up the game for who ever use them. But now an ebony mori actually loses you time almost as the animations take a go second. And a survivor with perks can wiggle off in about 16 secs so is it really saving time?
Because the big reason I keep seeing is because "it lets the survivors out without doing objectives" which is only a true statement if you loop back to the original statement which is knocking someone out early isn't the way to play against them.
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@0wl said:
It prolongs unwanted games. Remove it and return the old mechanic.
Play out the game instead of being salty and wasting everyone's time?
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417994#Comment_2417994
The point of the thread is to point out that tunneling the key carrier is precisely how 3+man escapes happens.
it seems more like you have a veiw and you want everyone else to see said veiw or they are wrong. That isn't a discussion
I'm sure you would like people to agree with you as ell which is why I put out points in my favor not just saying key good it has counterplay and leaving it at that.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417956#Comment_2417956
Moris save me 20 seconds?
9 times out of 10 it's faster hooking the survivor than watching them get stabbed through mori.
Moris are so useless now half the time I forget I even have moris activated and accidentally pick them up anyways by habit.
keys are OP moris are not.
The key saves 20s in a 4man escape scenario is what I was saying. He was talking about what mori's couldn't do anymore as if previously Mori's and keys were equals. This conversation isn't really a back and forth currently I'm providing evidence to why keys aren't an enormous menace in their current state and all I'm getting back is they let people out early and are OP. The point of the thread is to point out that tunneling the key carrier is precisely how 3+man escapes happen because it spawns the hatch sooner vs playing it more calculated and knowing when to slug the key carrier and hook his team. So if you can address this without just saying keys OP please do i would love to have an actual debate.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417932#Comment_2417932
Bias? What bias? This is literally what happened.
People complaining about old Franklins: 0
Franklin's gets buffed: OMG! It's unfair! Change it! Nerf it! I should keep my item no matter what!
No one complained until it countered early hatch escapes. That's not bias; it's a fact.
people didnt like franklins long before that lol. and none if what I have said has applied to hatches.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417877#Comment_2417877
and?
They still are skipping objectives to win the game.
Moris can't even do that anymore.
20s? probably takes that long to find the hatch at least anyway. Mori still saves you time unless you're right under the hook. They weren't on the same plane of existence for power. I would hear an argument about maybe maps not tracking the hatch unless its the pink map or something. But comparing them is non-sensical. 4 man escape with a key is also extremely rare to pull off where a if you got less than a 3k with a mori then you probably had less than 20hrs in the game.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2416157#Comment_2416157
oh no they have to find the hatch?
Who will find the hatch first?
4 survivors with 360 degree third person cameras coordinated by comms
VS.
1 killer with a locked FOV in first person
also 3 gens can get done in about 2 minutes the amount of gens being a requirement is nothing.
Good thing it takes more than 3 gens?
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2416157#Comment_2416157
Saying a Key requires a certain number of gens to be done is like saying that pre-nerf Ebony Mori required a certain number of hooks to be performed. It is a disingenuous argument either way.
for a 4 man escape all 5 gens have to be done though? the only thins they don't need to do then is open the gate. Moris cut the work a killer had to do by a third and was a easy tunnel the first person hooked solution. They weren't on the same plane of existence.
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@truegod_10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417681#Comment_2417681
Again it really doesn't effect you in other games as I pointed out above.
And yes the white ward should apply to dropped items same as all other items. The problem with that is that survivors can change their items out, so the devs would probably struggle to program it so that you keep either both items (if you pick up a new one) or only keep the new one you pick up.
pointing out I risked it if I died anyway doesn't address living...anyway I'm glad someone can concede that white ward could possibly extend to the items in such a case. Not a programmer so I cant say how hard it is to program an if a survivor leaves with someone else's item clause but from my perspective it does not seem too difficult.
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@PhantomChimera said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417114#Comment_2417114
Why would the killer keep chasing you after making you drop the key?
nothing ever said they made me drop it? I believe this in response to someone saying with this mentality people will bring a key just to be a distraction.
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Me thinks its whoever is your obsession when the gates are powered. obsession changes after that don't let you keep killing i don't think
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@truegod_10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417158#Comment_2417158
You should have other copies of that item. If you dont you risked losing your last one anyway if you died.
If you need items buy them or get plunders/ace in the hole and go hunting (both one time purchases that can be used to get infinite good items out of matches btw).
So to my other half of that, what if white ward would also extend to this because that is an offering to protect my item if the game goes south. I just don't understand why any person feels the need to effect players in entirely different games.
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@Lordofweed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2386976#Comment_2386976
I dont think so. He's fine i guess.
He's worse than original trickster
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2386793#Comment_2386793
I mean it's undeniable that he definitely needed buffed but we're these thr right buffs?
Nope because he's worse
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@Razorbeam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417392#Comment_2417392
And objectively the most effective way to win a match is to make it a 3v1 as quickly as possible, so removing keys in such a cruel manner is in the killers interests.
True without a key in the game making it a 3v1 with 2 gens left is a valid if not scummy way to play. But this must be adapted with a key in play because playing this way is precisely what empowers the key.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417377#Comment_2417377
You mean if the killer throws the game by not completing their objective of sacrificing survivors?
You know you can eliminate survivors without it being tunneling right?
Or are killers suposed to wait until all gens are repaired before killing anyone? Which survivor rule is that again?
I'm a killer main bud lol don't try to survivor rulebook me lol. Play the game normally into the endgame, down the key carrier, leave them down, then hook the rest and the survivors panic and try to pick the ley guy up and throw the game themselves.
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@Razorbeam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417377#Comment_2417377
I'm not really sure why you're fighting this so hard, you're not going to convince anyone.
I mean then what's the point of the forum if not to discuss these things. The OP is stating the objectively better way to approach a game as a killer when you see a key if trying to win, and asking why the majority of the killer community on these forums resorts to tunneling them. Some people say they just want to watch the key carrier burn, cool if that's your reason. I'm trying to help the rest of the people that think its the most effective way to win a key game see why its not.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417349#Comment_2417349
Survivors have to complete 5 gens. This allows them to only complete 3 or 4 (depending on whether we're talking 2 or 3 survivors)
The entire premise of the game is preventing your opponent from completing their objective.
Imagine if the killer only had to sacrifice 3 survivors, then a button appeared that automatically sacrificed the final survivor wherever they were on the map.
There's a reason why keys are compared to Mori's. Now that a Mori doesn't bypass any hook states, they're not skipping objectives. Keys are.
Keys aren't letting them skip much though unless you enable it by tunneling, which is what the thread is asking. If you don't tunnel someone out early, then they still have to do all 5 gens.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417341#Comment_2417341
Because the point of Franklin's is to remove items from survivors.
If you want to keep your item so badly then you need to pick it back up and prevent the killer from knocking out of your hands again.
You won it though I cant use my item in our game congrats. But why should it effect more than our match if I manage to escape?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2416157#Comment_2416157
3. Allows survivors to completely bypass their objective. While you're entirely focused on gen defence and getting hooks, the remaining survivors vanish down a hole and you can't do anything to stop it.
Well you can do one thing. Get rid of the key.
In what way does it allow them to completely bypass their object pray tell? and how many survivors are we talkin about here that jumped down a hole since you used the plural.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417314#Comment_2417314
It has never covered Franklin's and if it did would only lead to the ability for survivors to duplicate items. It's literally not an issue. There's a single very niche situation in which a White Ward doesn't protect your item and you still have the option to force a killer to grab you out of a locker to prevent the force item drop.
Please read my scenario i put out and tell me why your perk should mean I cant use my item in my next game.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417300#Comment_2417300
The fact is that stacked items can be too strong and killer should have way to deal with it. It isn't just keys, but yeah that is main problem. Flashlights as Hag / Wraith. Med-kits when you play hit and run style.
If you said that you should somehow keep item, if you escape. Sure. I don't care.
That is exactly what I'm saying...You still have to escape. I would be totally fine with the item hitting 0 charges the second it hits the ground, or take 25% immediately and then start the decay. Buff that aspect of it for all I care, just don't have it effect future games even if the survivor plays well.
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Screenshot (65)_LI.jpg Screenshot (57)_LI.jpg Screenshot (66)_LI.jpg@Gamedozer7 said:
People need to stop say this guy with 2k-5k hours does it. Most people aren't going to put that much time into the game on top of that when mmr was been tested games weren't the same because they are playing equally skilled players and they weren't getting 9-12 hooks a game not even close these players can play like that and there playing potatoes compared to there skill level. Is like my green ranks playing white ranks
There a guy that doesnt have 5k hours doing it. but dont you think if thats the approach the guy with 5k hours has then maybe people with fewer hours should follow it?
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417292#Comment_2417292
White Ward only allows you to keep your item if it's in your hand at the time you die. Same with the key addons. It's how the offering/addons have always worked even before the Franklin's changes.
I understand that...Its just an insurance policy, which in my opinion should cover Franklins as well. Not placing it down on your own volition though that would be problematic.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417196#Comment_2417196
How does it effect next game? It used to before, when you lost it completely.
I will also direct you to my initial scenario I laid out which is not an uncommon occurrence in this game.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417196#Comment_2417196
How does it effect next game? It used to before, when you lost it completely.
They took the completely used aspect out so that's not a valid point, but I will address the first. But, If I bring an item I am risking that item in the trial, full acceptance, With the caveat that if I escape I get to keep it, I bring an offering to protect it even if the game goes south and I die and I can use it next game. Your perk, negates my ability to use it next game even if I play well enough to escape and through my offering. So it effects me outside of our trial.
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@DBD78 said:
Because that player is the KEY to all survivors free escape.
dang true
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The removed the use all the charges aspect so that argument doesn't count. I even conceded I would be fine under normal circumstances of franklins made me drop it, its gone, But I think the ward should let you keep it. Though also removing charges from someones toolbox does slow down gens... But if it doesnt help them win then its strictly a trolling perk.
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@Hektic3000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417164#Comment_2417164
Yeah he does, that's a part of his skill at being a killer in the game. I'm not saying he shouldn't lose, everybody can, its just that in some situations you can't claim "lack of skill or lack of trying" is what loses you games. The comment i replied to is op claiming that you can 9-12 hook survivors if you just "trust in your skill and hone them" even though you don't always have time to 9-12 hook survivors.
You don't always have the time for this no but I have personally found it a much more effective method to deal with keys. Its even what Otz does, plays the game normally and then at the end he will slug the key carrier and eliminate them from the equation but without empowering his key.
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My real question is why do you feel that your perk should effect the persons next game even in situations where you lost.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417187#Comment_2417187
If you dropped your item in a trail yourself, the white ward wouldn't protect it.
If you must insist on keeping your item with a White Ward, you can force the killer to grab you out of lockers instead of hitting you.
So throw?
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@Mat_Sella said:
There are three chests in a trial for a reason, you just don't want to lose your bully-squad item.
I assure you I do not have a bully squad lol. I even play killer mostly.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417158#Comment_2417158
The risk of using items as a survivor has always been that you can lose the item. If the idea that you might lose an item you brought into trail is not something you like, then don't bring an item into trail.
thats what the white ward is for though...so can at leasta white ward protect it?
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2417174#Comment_2417174
I'm just saying I think Franklins is fine.
fair enough cant convince everybody.
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@Nathan13 said:
nah I think Franklins is fine the way it is.
Is this a spite thing that you think your perks should effect more games than the one you participated in?